Horace Hambrick
1:00I was three years old when the fire occurred. And Mary said that we went up
several times because we lived in town then up there and said that my mother wanted to come back to the house on Broadway two or three times because so many of the fire was going and hitting housing, she was afraid our house would get bunked--by some of the flying debris, you know, from the chapel fire. And let--there were a number of houses that were--caught fire because of that.Don Cawthorne
2:00You see, we were on the way back from a glee club trip and we heard about it in Corbin.
Horace Hambrick
3:00Huh, in Corbin.
Don Cawthorne
4:00We heard that the chapel had burned.
Horace Hambrick
5:00You already got us on tape?
Glen Taul
6:00This is an unrehearsed interview with Don B. Cawthrone, class of 1931 and Horace
Hamrick, class of 1947 at Mr. Cawthorne's residentce at 3051 Ria Dosa Drive, Apartment 207 in Lexington, Kentucky on March 25th 2000. The interview was conducted by Glen Edward Taul, Georgetown college archivist. Now, just tell me your name first.Don Cawthorne
7:00Don Cawthorne.
Glen Taul
8:00Okay. And where--where were you living at the time when you came to Georgetown?
Don Cawthorne
9:00I was living in Pineville, Kentucky.
Glen Taul
10:00Pineville, Kentucky, that's in eastern Kentucky.
Don Cawthorne
11:00Bell County.
Glen Taul
12:00Okay. What made you decide to come to Georgetown?
Don Cawthorne
13:00My older brother had gone to Georgetown. mMy parents were Bapitsts and wanted us
to go to a Baptist college.Glen Taul
14:00Okay. Why did they want you to go to a Baptist. Besides being Baptist, was there
any particular reason why they picked Georgetown?Don Cawthorne
15:00Not that I know of. I had been offered a scholarship to play basketball at
Kentucky Wesleyan. And my parents said, "we want you to go to Georgetown." So that's where I wound up.Glen Taul
16:00Now, and your parents, what did your dad do?
Don Cawthorne
17:00My dad owned and operated some coal mines.
Glen Taul
18:00Oh, down around near Middlesboro or?
Don Cawthorne
19:00Well, we were--all of us were born in Virginia.
Glen Taul
20:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
21:00And my grandfather, and a farm just south of Appomattox, Virginia, oh, 50, 60
miles. And we spent a lot of time there. And then we moved to Nortron, Virginia and moved to Kentucky when I was twelve years old, I think it was.Glen Taul
22:00Tweleve years old.
Don Cawthorne
23:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
24:00Okay and so you went there through high school like at--
Don Cawthorne
25:00That's right.
Glen Taul
26:00Okay. And what kind of education did you get it at Pineville High School?
Don Cawthorne
27:00I got a wonderful education. Teachers, good athletic programs, good. Students,
good. And just a very, very invigorating environment. Pineville High School was a Class-A school, no question.Glen Taul
28:00Was it a four-room school, an eight-room school?
Don Cawthorne
29:00Oh, no, it was--it was a building about oh, 40 or 50 yards long and about 25 or
30 feet deep and or along there. No, it was a good sized building.Glen Taul
30:00About What year was this--or years were these?
Don Cawthorne
31:00I graduated in 1927.
Glen Taul
32:00From high school.
Don Cawthorne
33:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
34:00Okay. So you came to Georgetown in 1927?
Don Cawthorne
35:00Right.
Glen Taul
36:00What was--how did you get there?
Don Cawthorne
37:00Not--family drove me.
Glen Taul
38:00Oh, so you didn't take the bus or train or anything.
Don Cawthorne
39:00No. No. They drove me down and unloaded me and then they went home. [laughter]
Glen Taul
40:00Now, were you the first in the family to go to college?
Don Cawthorne
41:00No, no. My brother--older brother had gone to Georgetown.
Glen Taul
42:00Is there more than you and your brother in the family?
Don Cawthorne
43:00I had two younger brothers and I had an older sister.
Glen Taul
44:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
45:00And my older sister went to Science Hill.
Glen Taul
46:00Oh, over in Pulaski County?
Don Cawthorne
47:00No, over in Shelby County. Shelby County.
Glen Taul
48:00Oh,
Don Cawthorne
49:00Shelbyville, Science Hill.
Glen Taul
50:00Okay. You're talking about the Science Hill School--not the town.
Don Cawthorne
51:00Yeah, that's right.
Glen Taul
52:00Okay. Very good. So, what were the roads like from Pineville to Georgetown?
Don Cawthorne
53:00Twisting and narrow. And remember it took--it would take at least eight hours to
drive from Pineville to Louisville.Glen Taul
54:00Eight hours.
Don Cawthorne
55:00I've counted the time quite frequently because the girl that I met at
Georgetown, to whom I later married, lived in Louisville. And I would drive from Pineville to Louisville and it always took me eight hours--seven hours to go. And eight hours to get back. [laughter] I was more anxious to get there than I was to leave. [laughter]Glen Taul
56:00He was depressed--when he left. [laughter] So what, what kind of--now had you
visited Georgetown before you came?Don Cawthorne
57:00Yeah, I'd been down there cause my brother was there.
Glen Taul
58:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
59:00I had been there--during my senior year, I went down.
Glen Taul
60:00Okay. What was your impression of it?
Don Cawthorne
61:00It must have been all right, because I didn't rebel against going to Georgetown.
Glen Taul
62:00Okay. Was your brother' still here at the time you came?
Don Cawthorne
63:00Yeah, he was still there.
Glen Taul
64:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
65:00He was two years ahead of me.
Glen Taul
66:00Okay. Now, what? Where did you stay, the first year?
Don Cawthorne
67:00The Phi K House.
Glen Taul
68:00The Phi K House and where was that located?
Don Cawthorne
69:00Located at Main Street and--
Horace Hambrick
70:00Chambers.
Don Cawthorne
71:00Chambers Avenue.
Glen Taul
72:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
73:00As a matter of fact, I lived all four years--.
Horace Hambrick
74:00Old house--.
Don Cawthorne
75:00--In a fraternity house.
Horace Hambrick
76:00[It's] still standing.
Glen Taul
77:00Does that mean--you pledged the first semester?
Don Cawthorne
78:00I pledged at the end of the first semester?
Glen Taul
79:00At the end of the first semester, but you still started out in the Pi Kappa
House? How could you do that, I thought fraternities were only allowed to--members were only allowed to stay in the Phi--in the fraternity house?Don Cawthorne
80:00I don't know, but I stayed in Phi K House, I know that.
Horace Hambrick
81:00Well--they did when I was there, you could have non-fraternity members in the house.
Glen Taul
82:00Is that right? Okay.
Horace Hambrick
83:00Is that because there was a shortage of housing for students on the campus?
Don Cawthorne
84:00Well Georgetown, I mean, the fraternity owned that house?
Glen Taul
85:00The national organization or the local fraternity?
Don Cawthorne
86:00It was local, wasn't it?
Horace Hambrick
87:00Local--local fraternity.
Glen Taul
88:00Okay. Okay.
Don Cawthorne
89:00The fraternity members had contributed to buy it.
Glen Taul
90:00Okay. Of course, all of that changed in the 60s or 70s.
Don Cawthorne
91:00[Unknown] ?? [laughter]
Glen Taul
92:00Well, what did the fraternities do to recruit you?
Don Cawthorne
93:00Well, they did like--they did. Well, they didn't like to do then [??], they had
just a lot of affairs. A lot of, well little parties that they had, but they weren't--they weren't binges. They were--they were parties there at the house. And some of the members would take you out to maybe get a Coke Cola or eat a sandwich or something like that. And that's the way they rushed you then.Glen Taul
94:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
95:00You remember that, Horace?
Horace Hambrick
96:00Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
97:00You remember how they did that?
Horace Hambrick
98:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
99:00So it wasn't it--the way you're describing, it's nothing like they probably do today.
Don Cawthorne
100:00No, no. Nothing like, what do they call it, chapel day?
Glen Taul
101:00Yeah.
Horace Hambrick
102:00Yeah. Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
103:00Nothing like that.
Horace Hambrick
104:00No, no.
Don Cawthorne
105:00It was all very--it very competivie, but it was done on a more personal basis
than--of course with me, it was a little different because my brother was a Phi Kappa.Glen Taul
106:00Oh, so that influence you?
Don Cawthorne
107:00Oh, yeah.
Glen Taul
108:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
109:00But, I was also rushed by the KAs [Kappa Alpha.] Even my little old--my brother
with a Phi Kap, but they did anyway.Glen Taul
110:00Okay. And the KAs where like on, what's the name of the street the Baptist
church is on?Horace Hambrick
111:00Over there on Hamilton Street.
Glen Taul
112:00Hamilton Street.
Horace Hambrick
113:00Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
114:00Yeah.
Horace Hambrick
115:00That Dentist then bought the house later--Hill--.
Don Cawthorne
116:00Yeah.
Horace Hambrick
117:00Dr. Hill.
Glen Taul
118:00Okay. What was--what did y'all do? What was--why was it so important to belong
to a fraternity, in your mind?Don Cawthorne
119:00Social.
Glen Taul
120:00Social? So what kind of activities were y'all involved--did you get involved in,
as far our social activities?Don Cawthorne
121:00Oh, well they had a lot of--a lot of parties. --I mean, not a lot of parties,
but on on special occasions, they would have parties and they'd have for instance, I remember when Frankie Carl, I believe was Frankie Carl that came to Georgetown.Horace Hambrick
122:00It might have been, I'm not sure.
Don Cawthorne
123:00And they came over to the fraternity house and played the piano a lot at night.
While he was there and things like that. It was more of a personal thing than it was a--it was in the--fraternity, I don't know how they are now. But the fraternities in my time and probably in Horace's time are very close knit. And the Phi Kaps I know were--and I guess the other fraternities were also, but we just did a lot of things together and then you made special friends that you did things with. I made several real close friends and always were during my pledge years. We went through hell week together and all that kind of stuff. They don't have that anymore, I don't think.Glen Taul
124:00What is hell week, or what was hell week, I should say? [laughs]
Don Cawthorne
125:00It was what the name describes.
Glen Taul
126:00Okay. Well, tell me several things--
Don Cawthorne
127:00I remember, well I remember that, well, they put you through all sorts things.
And [clears throat] I remember one night, they had the pledges all up in the third floor and of the fraternity house and had your hand stretched out, holding on to those two by fours, or four by sixes or what it was. Without any clothes on, stark naked, and they stuck fly paper all over you. [laughter] Did you hear that okay?Horace Hambrick
128:00Did worse than that.
Glen Taul
129:00Oh, well--
Horace Hambrick
130:00I'll tell my story after--
Glen Taul
131:00Okay.
Horace Hambrick
132:00--You get through.
Don Cawthorne
133:00And all things like that. I had to get in a tub of hot water and soak that
flypaper before I could get it off. Because you could imagine--you don't know what our paper is, do you?Glen Taul
134:00Yeah, I know what it is.
Don Cawthorne
135:00Do you?
Glen Taul
136:00Yeah, it's real sticky on the surface--.
Don Cawthorne
137:00Oh, yeah, that's right.
Glen Taul
138:00And you hang it up to catch the files.
Don Cawthorne
139:00That's right.
Glen Taul
140:00Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
141:00And, of course, we had a lot of paddling in those days, too.
Glen Taul
142:00Well, I wondered about that. That--that was going on during the time --I never
was a fraternity person, but I knew they had paddles.Don Cawthorne
143:00Was that--Jack Dawson, who played tackle on the football team, was my big
brother. And the way he would greet me, most of the days would be, "Cawthrone, grab your ankles." And you'd be--you'd bend over, he'd give you a whack with that paddle --was pretty stinging too. [laughter] And one night, he came in and I was already in my pajamas and--about 10 o'clock. And Jack said, "on your feet, get dressed." And he looked at his watch and said, "you've got 15 minutes to go down to Suzy Faber's (??) and get me some ice cream. [laughter] So, it took off.Glen Taul
144:00In your pajamas?
Don Cawthorne
145:00No, no, I dressed. [laughter] Not in my pajamas?
Horace Hambrick
146:00I've made him break a vocal record from that (??).
Don Cawthorne
147:00And I was passing like a (??) [laughter] down there and back.
Glen Taul
148:00So that was all part of hell week?
Don Cawthorne
149:00Yeah. And the last--the last night of hell week. They made you--they searched
you, to make sure you had no money on.Made you take your shoes off, so you didn't have them in there and everywhere. And to sure he didn't have any money and blindfolded you, put you in a car, drove you out in the county someplace or in some other county. Took the blindfold often and put you out of the car. And you need to get back to Georgetown the best way you could. Did they do you that way?Horace Hambrick
150:00The same way, exactly.
Glen Taul
151:00So how did you get back?
Don Cawthorne
152:00Well, it so happened that I had a good friend who was a member of the
fraternity. Already, and he wasn't a pledge. And he put--took me and my buddy in the car and then another fella and drove around and around and around. And finally let us out down around Farmers Bank. Then we jus--we walked from there back to the house, so he didn't--didn't put us out in the country. [laughter] What about you?Horace Hambrick
153:00Much worse than that.
Don Cawthorne
154:00No, I didn't have--very nice. [laughter]
Glen Taul
155:00So after the hell week, was there some kind of initiation ceremony or a ceremony
to induction into?Don Cawthorne
156:00Oh, yeah, yeah, we went through that. And then of course--
Glen Taul
157:00That's a secret thing, isn't it?
Don Cawthorne
158:00And during the--yeah, during the pledge week, we had a study hall, in the
fraternity house. And we had somebody that monitored it, so they did pay some attention to academics then. And, I don't know, it was just all a good experience. Except after I became an active member, I didn't do much paddling on the pledges. I've never been in favor much of that vigorous hazing. And I'm glad I didn't do it now.Horace Hambrick
159:00Right.
Don Cawthorne
160:00And the community work or whatever they do, I know they don't--they're not
supposed to do it now.Horace Hambrick
161:00They're not supposed to.
Don Cawthorne
162:00And the National, the National is against it.
Horace Hambrick
163:00Most national fraternities are against it now.
Glen Taul
164:00So, what kind of things did you do after you got into the fraternity?
Don Cawthorne
165:00Well, I played athletics. I played on the basketball team, on the tennis team. I
played football my freshman year. And I wouldn't go out the second year for reasons I don't want to state on--.Glen Taul
166:00Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
167:00But, the record here, but we heard that somebody had the VD [veneral] disease.
Glen Taul
168:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
169:00So I didn't--I didn't go out.
Glen Taul
170:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
171:00When I--when I talked to my parents about it, they said, "Drop it." And I don't
know whether they did or not. [laughter]Glen Taul
172:00You know, it just wasn't Horace?
Don Cawthorne
173:00No it wasn't, he was still in high school.
Glen Taul
174:00I know it!
Don Cawthorne
175:00In grade school maybe.
Horace Hambrick
176:00--I was born in the year you went to Georgetown.
Don Cawthorne
177:00--Were you? [laughter]
Glen Taul
178:00So you--you participated in activities outside of the fraternities?
Don Cawthorne
179:00Oh, yeah.
Glen Taul
180:00Group.
Don Cawthorne
181:00Sure.
Glen Taul
182:00And you've mentioned the sports, what other kind of activities were you involved
in? You mentioned the glee club.Don Cawthorne
183:00Oh, yeah. Sang, sang the first tenor in the glee club.
Glen Taul
184:00Is that did you--were you involved in that--.
Don Cawthorne
185:00Oh, yeah.
Glen Taul
186:00In your first year?
Don Cawthorne
187:00No, I was involved in that--I didn't get involved in that until my junior year.
Glen Taul
188:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
189:00And the reason I got involved in my junior year because the girl came up as a
freshman from Louisville, Chris Kerr (??) And she played the piano real well. And she was the pianist for the glee club. And I joined the glee club.Glen Taul
190:00I figured that was gonna be the reason. [laughter]
Don Cawthorne
191:00Budd Blackman and sang first tenor.
Horace Hambrick
192:00Oh, did you?
Don Cawthorne
193:00Remember Bud? You probably don't remember him.
Horace Hambrick
194:00No, no.
Don Cawthorne
195:00He became a doctor and--practiced in London, Ohio, I think. George Asher. Dean's
brother was a senior at the time I went to Georgetown.Horace Hambrick
196:00Asher.
Don Cawthorne
197:00Dr. Blount (??)
Horace Hambrick
198:00Rankin Blount.
Don Cawthorne
199:00Rankin Blount, yeah, who was a doctor here in Lexington--for a long time.
Horace Hambrick
200:00Went to him myself.
Don Cawthorne
201:00Huh?
Horace Hambrick
202:00I had gone to him too.
Don Cawthorne
203:00Oh, really. Just stayed busy, you know. Used to go to the library, every once in
a while. Whenever Chris went. [laughter]Glen Taul
204:00--W--did you go before then?
Don Cawthorne
205:00And write notes. Not much. Not much. And Mrs. Fisher, I believe it was, who was
the librarian there.Horace Hambrick
206:00Avril (??) Fisher.
Don Cawthorne
207:00She would see me writing a note to Chris and she'd go, like that. [makes a gesture]
Glen Taul
208:00You wouldn't say a word--she would just wave her finger?
Don Cawthorne
209:00That's right
Glen Taul
210:00Well, I was--it's funny you should mention that because I was looking through
The Georgetonian not long ago in the 1920s and Miss Fisher had published her rules for library protocol. Did you read that in the exhibit? What was the protocol?Don Cawthorne
211:00Well, there was no talking.
Glen Taul
212:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
213:00And I don't know whether it was you weren't supposed sit--boys and girls
close--I know I sat at the table with Chris.Glen Taul
214:00Oh, you did?
Don Cawthorne
215:00Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
Glen Taul
216:00And this was like 1928?
Don Cawthorne
217:001929.
Glen Taul
218:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
219:00She didn't come there till 1929.
Glen Taul
220:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
221:00I was a junior when she came as a freshman. And that's when they had open house,
every night, you know, from 6:30 to 7:30 in the fraternity houses.Glen Taul
222:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
223:00And Chris would always play the piano and--one of the girls from Pineville told
me, said, "Don, there's a real cute girl from Louisville I want you to meet." And I didn't know, but at the time she told the girls that, "there was a boy from Pineville, there's nice boy, I want you to meet him." And I was playing on the tennis team. And one--I didn't pay any attention to it for, oh, two or three weeks. And one afternoon, after I'd finished my match, I went to the sorority house to look this thing over, you know or something. There was a crowd around the piano and somebody was banging up on that and they were singing to talk to boys. (??) And I finally eased my way into where I could look over the piano. And Chris said that---later said, "I knew that's who you were because I saw that stick--tennis racket sticking out of your hand." And that night, I asked her, I said--I walked her back to the--I liked what I saw. I said, "I'll walk you back to the dorm." And she said, "somebody had already asked me." [laughter] I don't know if I--goofed off or not. But the next night, I went back to the open house. And I said to her again, I said, "I'll walk you back to the dorm, if I may." She says, "Somebody's already asked me." [laughter] And I said, "well, is anybody to asked you for tomorrow--asked for tomorrow night?" "No." Well, there--so I walked her back that night, and I said, "I walk you back tomorrow night too." She's-- "somebody already's asked me." [laughter] Wwell, and finally about the third night she told me that, and then finally, the fourth night I walked her back and I said, "from now on, whoever asks you to walk you back to the dorm, you tell them you've got somebody to walk you back." [laughter]Horace Hambrick
224:00You cut them off. And I just walked her back every night.
Glen Taul
225:00Now, where was she staying, in Rucker?
Don Cawthorne
226:00She was staying in Rucker at the time. Rucker Hall. You remember Rucker?
Glen Taul
227:00Yes. Never was inside it, but I remember it.
Don Cawthorne
228:00Well, you know, that was a hard decision of the trustees, that vote to tear that
thing down. But we had been warned time and again with by the fire marshal about how dangerous it wa--dingy it was. And I was on the trustees at the time. And I hated to see it come down, but I also--I many times after the meeting, I would be thinking at night. Suppose that building does this catch on fire. Those kids up on the third floor wouldn't have a chance. And so, they finally tore it down, which they should have done. But alums would come back to the campus and they would look and they'd say, "where's Rucker Hall?" They didn't know that it had been torn down. And I remember one, one woman, I don't remember name. She really--actually said in tears because she couldn't find Rucker. I mean, it was that kind of a place.Glen Taul
229:00Oh, I know.
Don Cawthorne
230:00See and Rucker when you had a--date, and that's where you had your dates when
you were a freshman. Were little cubicles and straight benches like this. And you could--anybody in the next cubicle, they could hear you and so on and so forth. And it was really a ten strike when you could get down where the glee club director had his office. They would let you have a date in that and I finally worked up where I could get a date there. [laughter] And the rules were very strict. I remember Chris got that campus for two weeks and the reason was she had been seen with a boy, which woas me, downtown.Glen Taul
231:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
232:00So, she couldn't have a date for two weeks.
Glen Taul
233:00That's what campus means.
Don Cawthorne
234:00That's campus.
Horace Hambrick
235:00You've never heard of the term?
Glen Taul
236:00Haven't heard of that.
Don Cawthorne
237:00Yeah, well,
Horace Hambrick
238:00Oh, that was true in my case, oh you've got campus.
Don Cawthorne
239:00I've still got that little card someplace, where Chris was given that being
campus. A reason, seen in town with a boy. [laughter] I've got that stuff at someplace. [laughter]Glen Taul
240:00Now, that is fascinating. [chuckles]
Don Cawthorne
241:00And I think you could have---only have two dates a month to begin with. And so
they were precious.Glen Taul
242:00And then there were exceptions for--there were certain occasions--
Don Cawthorne
243:00Oh, yeah.
Glen Taul
244:00--Where it wasn't counted as a date, right?
Horace Hambrick
245:00Yeah. You went to church, you could go on a prayer meeting--.
Don Cawthorne
246:00Oh, yeah, as a matter of fact, why we--we both were Baptist, and went to the
Baptist church. On Sunday, we would go to the Presbyterian Church, it was all the way around on Main Street, and would walk all the way around. And we used to have a date for 60 cents, 25 cents each to go into the movie, and a nickel for for a Coke. And we'd go to Tiger's Den and the sweet shop. On or the other. I think the sweet shop got to be where it was [a] favorite for us. Now, where was the sweet shop? I know it was downtown, but? It was just about where--it was just south, I guess you could say, about three or four doors of Susy Faber's.Glen Taul
247:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
248:00Is that right?
Horace Hambrick
249:00Or west.
Don Cawthorne
250:00West.
Glen Taul
251:00--Toward Frankfort.
Don Cawthorne
252:00Yeah. So toward--down toward the courthouse.
Glen Taul
253:00Okay. But, it was on Main Street?
Don Cawthorne
254:00Yeah, on Main Street.
Glen Taul
255:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
256:00Fobber's and and sweet shop both on the same side of the street.
Horace Hambrick
257:00And Tiger Den across the street.
Don Cawthorne
258:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
259:00Now, what was the Tiger Den?
Don Cawthorne
260:00Well, it was, it was a restaurant. And it was a place where the kids would hang
out some.Glen Taul
261:00It was trying--so it was basically trying to gear its business toward the
college students.Don Cawthorne
262:00Yeah. And the college kids used to hang out there some.
Glen Taul
263:00Okay. They allow dancing?
Don Cawthorne
264:00Oh, no. [laughter] Matter of fact, I was on the trustees again when we voted to
have dancing. And which I think we should have been done before we did--we were--.Horace Hambrick
265:00--When--my sister was in school, though in the early 40s, before [Sam] Hill
came, they did have dancing, under [President Henry Noble] Sherwood.Glen Taul
266:00Oh.
Horace Hambrick
267:00After Don was gone--.
Don Cawthorne
268:00Oh yeah.
Horace Hambrick
269:00--They had it and then it was later restored.
Don Cawthorne
270:00Then it went back.
Horace Hambrick
271:00Yeah. Yeah.
Glen Taul
272:00Oh, did Dr. [H. Leo] Eddleman ban dancing?
Horace Hambrick
273:00Well, I don't think under Dr. Hill they had dancing.
Don Cawthorne
274:00No, no, we--they didn't, under Dr. Hill. No.
Horace Hambrick
275:00But, it was under Sherwood they had had dancing because my sister--she was a
Sigma Kappa as Chris was and they used to, I can remember going up to the Sigma Kappa House when I was in high school and my sister, and they rolled the rugs back to dance--Don Cawthorne
276:00Yeah.
Horace Hambrick
277:00In the Sigma Kappa house--.
Glen Taul
278:00Well did--when you had dancing did you do with records or did you have a
lot--some people who actually played instruments or?Horace Hambrick
279:00I think records.
Don Cawthorne
280:00Well, we had a little--we had a little jazz band, my senior year. Chris played
the piano. Arlie (??) Wheeler played the drums. Bud Blackburn and I played trumpets. And somebody played the sax now, I've forgotten the name of the fellow who played the sax. But we used to just get together and toot around. You know, for fun.Glen Taul
281:00Okay. That sound--that's best the best kind. [laughter] Instead of doing it to
records. [laughter] Well, what did you major in?Don Cawthorne
282:00Majored in biology and Dr. Hinton and Barney Watson. You didn't know.
Horace Hambrick
283:00Knew Hinton, but didn't know Barney.
Don Cawthorne
284:00At that time, well, I don't know whether they still do or not but we had to have
an oral examination on our major our senior year.Glen Taul
285:00They still do that at Georgetown.
Don Cawthorne
286:00And stand up and ask you questions for an hour or so. All of it oral.
Horace Hambrick
287:00Did you have to stand up, Don?
Don Cawthorne
288:00Oh, yeah.
Glen Taul
289:00I got to sit down. [laughter]
Horace Hambrick
290:00Well I did too, but my mother, when she recited under John L. Hill, she used
to--would have to stand up in--during recitation.Don Cawthorne
291:00Well, I had to stand up during the (??) time. And of course, I remember the old
building where--that burned, you know? They used to have chapel in there, and on the left is you went in on Giddings and the library was on the right, and I did --took some chemistry and I had--my chemistry lab was up on the third floor of old Giddings.Glen Taul
292:00Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
293:00And that was before we had an elevator. We haven't always had that elevator, you know.
Glen Taul
294:00Oh sure. Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
295:00So I remember, we used to have numbered seats in your--in the chapel and they
would take the attendance on that by the seats that were unoccupied and they [chuckles], they knew all the students so, there wasn't any question of having a phony sit in your seat. [laughter]Glen Taul
296:00Now what was the rules for chapel?
Don Cawthorne
297:00I've forgotten exactly--.
Glen Taul
298:00How often did they have it?
Don Cawthorne
299:00I don't recall. It seemd to me like we had chapel every day, but I'm not sure
that's accurate.Horace Hambrick
300:00I wouldn't be surprised, it might have been.
Glen Taul
301:00Well, the day that the chapel burned, it was on a Saturday, and they were having chapel.
Don Cawthorne
302:00On Sat--I didn't know they'd have it on a Saturday.
Horace Hambrick
303:00No, I didn't either.
Glen Taul
304:00It was April the twenty--
Don Cawthorne
305:00Well, then they must have--.
Horace Hambrick
306:00When I was in school, we had on--if you were a freshman, you had it Monday and
Wednesday and upperclassmen Tuesday and Thursday, so we havd four days when I was in school, so I'll been Don had it five days. Amazing.Don Cawthorne
307:00--It seems to me we did have it five days.
Glen Taul
308:00So what was ch--what happened in chapel, usually?
Don Cawthorne
309:00Speeches.
Glen Taul
310:00Speeches.
Don Cawthorne
311:00Although the--the I'm wanting to call it an orchestra, but Chris also played the violin.
Glen Taul
312:00Boy, she was talented.
Don Cawthorne
313:00And I couldn't get--well she didn't play it, she said not too well, I couldn't
tell the difference. [laughter] But you used to have those glass doors in that--you know, you can go in the foyer.Glen Taul
314:00Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
315:00In the chapels and you see the glass doors and I'd see her in there sowing away
on that piano, I mean on that violin. I thought, she's not happy. [laughter] So it was all--it was all a lot of fun.Glen Taul
316:00What professor do you remember the most?
Don Cawthorne
317:00There are several. Dr. Stanton Pierce, who was the chemistry teacher. And Dr.
Hinton, Barney Watson. May Gabhart (??), who taught me history. Dr. Fogle, I believe he was French, wasn't he? And then the fellow who was--taught mathematics.Horace Hambrick
318:00Was it Hatfield then?
Don Cawthorne
319:00Hatfield, yeah. Those are the ones that I remember the most.
Glen Taul
320:00Were their teaching styles about the same?
Don Cawthorne
321:00No. No, Dr. Pierce would ask you more questions.
Glen Taul
322:00So he wouldn't necessarily a lecturer?
Don Cawthorne
323:00No, not necessarily. But he put a lot of formulas up on the blackboard and--you
had to interpret them, what they were and so on and so forth. And when you were trying to synthesize something, I wonder you know, there's a funny thing-- how things stand out in your memory. I know, Chick Carter and Dean Katon (??) and I had driven to Pineville. Dean lived in Pineville and chick lived in Harlan. And we had, Chick and I had gone together and bought an A Model Ford. And we drove to Pineville in that and Chip took it on to Harlan. And it didn't have a top on it.Glen Taul
324:00Oh!
Don Cawthorne
325:00And in the back where--the normal seat later became the fashionable thing to
have. We had just a big box, a big box. And we were spo--chick was supposed to meet us at 10 o'clock on a Sunday morning to drive back to Georgetown. It took them quite a few hours to drive to Georgetown, from Pineville. Well, Chick was late getting to Pineville. And we finally left Pineville along about six o'clock. And in the meantime, it had snowed. And it was one of these snows that laid on the grass, but the pavement was warm and it melted.Glen Taul
326:00Oh, okay.
Don Cawthorne
327:00And we didn't have any lights on the car. And so we followed just that black
streak ribbon all the way back to Georgetown.Glen Taul
328:00Oh, my goodness.
Don Cawthorne
329:00And we got in about, oh, I guess about one o'clock or something like that, in
the morning. Safely, thank goodness, and the next morning, I had a history class at eight o'clock. Now--Nellie May Gabehart (??) later married Dr. Vincent (??) Pierce.Horace Hambrick
330:00Yeah, I knew she was Vincent Pierce's wife.
Don Cawthorne
331:00Was a history teacher and I--my seat was about four rows back and right up
against the wall. And having been cold all night. when I got in there, and I went to sleep promptly. [laughter] And I didn't know it. I'd only know, but first thing I knew, Nellie May was tapping me on the shoulder. And she said, " Don, what in the world happened to you?" And I told her, we'd driven practically all night. And I was sorry that I'd slept during her class. But you know, she never did do a thing. though. She said, "Well, I understand."Horace Hambrick
332:00Well, wasn't that sweet?
Don Cawthorne
333:00That's why I remember it.
Horace Hambrick
334:00Sure.
Don Cawthorne
335:00You remember something like that.
Glen Taul
336:00Yes, you do.
Don Cawthorne
337:00[chuckles] She married later married and Dr. Vincent Pierce, who had been very
good to the college. Maybe you know know him?Glen Taul
338:00I don't know him.
Horace Hambrick
339:00He's a trustee. And he was a brother to Stanley Pierce?
Don Cawthorne
340:00That's right.
Horace Hambrick
341:00The other professor
Glen Taul
342:00Oh, yeah.
Horace Hambrick
343:00Chemistry, wasn't he?
Don Cawthorne
344:00Yeah. Yeah. Vince--
Horace Hambrick
345:00Three brothers.
Don Cawthorne
346:00Vincent wouldn't--he was a doctor.
Horace Hambrick
347:00Yeah. Yeah.
Don Cawthorne
348:00He wasn't, he wasn't a professor at Georgetown.
Horace Hambrick
349:00He was a urologist.
Glen Taul
350:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
351:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
352:00Okay. Okay. So you mentioned Dr. Hinton, what was he like?
Don Cawthorne
353:00Oh, he was fine. He was --he was a---soul of integrity. I thought and he could
be very stern. And when he told you to do something, he expected [you] to do it. And somewhere or other you expected to do it, after he told you to do it. [laughter] But he was very, he was very competent in what he did. And he was a real leader and aeal good foundation for Georgetown, wouldn't you think so?Horace Hambrick
354:00Oh my.
Glen Taul
355:00Now, he was--he must have been your tennis coach too?
Don Cawthorne
356:00No, as a matter a fact, we didn't have a tennis coach.
Glen Taul
357:00Oh, but--so how did y'all train for tennis matches?
Don Cawthorne
358:00Played each other.
Glen Taul
359:00Is that right?
Don Cawthorne
360:00Played each other. Shad (??) Jones was number one. Jockie (??) Garra, Russell
Garth was number two and I was number three. And I think Chick Carter was either four or five. We had five of usplaying.Horace Hambrick
361:00And Chip Jones was a Rhodes Scholar.
Don Cawthorne
362:00Yeah. He was a--
Glen Taul
363:00Oh.
Horace Hambrick
364:00Dr. W.B. Jones' son.
Don Cawthorne
365:00Right.
Glen Taul
366:00I've heard the name, and I couldn't place it.
Don Cawthorne
367:00Yeah. North Carolina, died several years.
Glen Taul
368:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
369:00Real nice guy.
Horace Hambrick
370:00One of the Rhodes Scholars.
Don Cawthorne
371:00.He went into the Foreign Service, didn't he?
372:00Oh.
Horace Hambrick
373:00-Taught--at North Carolina.
Don Cawthorne
374:00Yeah.
Horace Hambrick
375:00The University of North Carolina.
Glen Taul
376:00Oh, okay. Well, I didn't Dr. Hinton coach basketball too?
Don Cawthorne
377:00Not when I was playing.
Glen Taul
378:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
379:00Holvater (??) coached, football, I guess it was and the basketball coach, I
think his name was Collins--Cox, I don't quite remember. I'm mean--we had tqo there in a short length of time.Glen Taul
380:00Oh.
Don Cawthorne
381:00And--but Holvater was the football coach.
Horace Hambrick
382:00Was it?
Don Cawthorne
383:00Yeah.
Horace Hambrick
384:00I think I remember that name. [clears throat]
Glen Taul
385:00But when you were attending Georgetown, you had majors and minors for--as far as
your--the way that the curriculum was set up?Don Cawthorne
386:00--Yeah, I minored in chemistry and also had a minor, it could have been a major,
in foreign languages.Glen Taul
387:00Okay.
Don Cawthorne
388:00Cause I took Spanish and French, when I was there, and I had one year of Latin
and they--I took an exam because I had had French in high school and they gave me college credit, when I passed through the French exam, on that.Glen Taul
389:00That--that's about the equivalent of today's advanced placement. They do that
more regularly today in the high schools.Don Cawthorne
390:00I'll read--where they are studying the revision of the SAT.
Horace Hambrick
391:00I think so, Don. They always--
Don Cawthorne
392:00I read a long article about that, instead of the multiple choice, they're gonna
put some--the way you write--Horace Hambrick
393:00Sure.
Don Cawthorne
394:00Your handwriting is gonna count, some.
Glen Taul
395:00I don't know how they're gonna grade that fast. [laughter] So, what kind of tiem
do we have?Don Cawthorne
396:00We've been here about an hour. About 45-50 minutes, you've been talking?
Glen Taul
397:00Okay. How much more longer you want to go?
Don Cawthorne
398:00I'm ready to quit now.
Glen Taul
399:00Okay, we can quit now.
Don Cawthorne
400:00Alright.
Horace Hambrick
401:00He's gonna quit--and I've got three stories I wanna tell.
Glen Taul
402:00All right.
Don Cawthorne
403:00All right, good.
Horace Hambrick
404:00Now you don't need to necessarily put them.
Don Cawthorne
405:00Why not?
Glen Taul
406:00Well, I can make provision for that. [laughter]
Don Cawthorne
407:00He can erase them if he has to.
Horace Hambrick
408:00Well, I'll first tell, the first one, go back slowly. Don talking about the hell week.
Don Cawthorne
409:00Can I add one thing?
Horace Hambrick
410:00Yes, sir.
Don Cawthorne
411:00The best thing that ever happened to me at college, was meeting Chris.
Horace Hambrick
412:00Okay. Underline that. [laughter] Talking about hell week, what happened to him.
Ours was a little similar, a little bit more complicated. We also were start naked in the hell week proceedings. Well, what they did, maybe they had a little bit later on, they had learned the technique better. They covered us with molases and then put bran flakes on top us. [laughter] And then they had us put our clothes back on and put us in a car, to take this out in county. Snd was in the wintertime.Glen Taul
413:00Oh!
Horace Hambrick
414:00And every step you took, pulled every hair in your body. And I had to get into a
warm tub to get rid of all that with my clothes on. [laughter] Because there was the only way I could have got it, no, I couldn't take my clothes off. Had get in the tub to take the clothes off.Glen Taul
415:00Oh my.
Horace Hambrick
416:00That's one story. This other one if you wanna--.
Glen Taul
417:00No, that's a good story.
Horace Hambrick
418:00--Eliminate this next one's that's alright, since you've talked about Dean
Hinton and. Dean Hinton--when--when I was in church, of course, in the older days, normally people set in a certain row. My family sat in the second row and in the alcove and Dean Hinton would sit on the front row. And so I always almost sit behind him. So I knew Dean Hinton as a-- as a kid. I mean, so---when I went to Georgetown, I knew Dean Hinton [laughter]. But I'll never forget a story told and Don will appreciate this. If that goes off, that's all right. It was in the period of when Maribeth and I were in college, when we were having trouble with the fraternities. That--they were classified by some of the ministers as un-Christian, and they were trying to kick us off the campus and so forth. And I remember one night, we had a meeting in Giddings Hall And some of the fraternity people were there and some of the ministers were there. And Dean Hinton sort of tried to quiet it down and so forth. But I'll never forget, as we came out of the meeting, in the hall, some of the ministers and I'll leave names unrecorded, were there and I was standing in the hall and they got into a rather discuss--heated discussion over it with Dean Hinton, and finally then solved it. He said, "now I'll tell you what, you boys, you all go on back to home, too your rooms. I'm running this damn college." [laughter] That ended it. That end--that ended that discussion right--the little story and end of it right there. Then I got a third story. And this part of this has been added to me, just in the last two weeks. It's a little more of a story about my grandmother that I didn't know, that when she was still living, a Janie Hill wrote about my grandmother. You know, she's just spoken recently to the Woman's Association and told about her Georgetown experience. And she'd been out home a lot. I'd heard part of this story from my grandmother, but Janie filled in some holes, details. My grandmother graduated in 1884. And Janie said, and I had forgotten that my grandmother was in the first co-educational class. Now, that wasn't when we had a co-educational school, because that came in the 90s. But this was in 1884. And she told Janie, that that first class they went to, they came from the old Sam, marched up to school. And they put the girls on the left hand side of the room, and the boys on the right hand side, and they couldn't commingle, even in the classroom. And in those days, they didn't have any dates. And in fact, according to Jane's story, again, only once in the year, in early June, one afternoon that was designated months in advance, from two to four o'clock, a boy could come by and see a girl in the afternoon, once a year. [laughter]Glen Taul
419:00Oh, my goodness.
Horace Hambrick
420:00But, I had heard my grandmother telling me that my grandfather, who lived in
Georgetown and she came from Lawrenceburg. They often communicated by hiding notes in the hedge near the seminary. And Janie told me another story, that my grandmother was a piano major, and she was on the third floor. Climbed this tall locust tree and worked out on the branches, so he could signal and talk to my grandmother.Glen Taul
421:00What'd he do, throw a pillow or something
Don Cawthorne
422:00Oh, that reminded me--him telling that story about that. We used--the girls in
Rucker Hall would drop a string down, and we would get food and tie it on there and they'd pull it up to their room at night. That's the way--that's the way we got them their snacks.Glen Taul
423:00The girls in Rucker?
Don Cawthorne
424:00The girls, they'd drop--they'd drop a string down, a heavy string down, from the
third floor. And you'd be down there, it was planned, pre-planned. You'd be down there with some sandwiches or some candy or something and tied it on there and they'd pull it back up to their room. That's the way they got their snacks, at night. [laughter]Horace Hambrick
425:00Let me finish part of that story.
Don Cawthorne
426:00I'm sorry, I thought you were through.
Horace Hambrick
427:00That's alright. And that's the way they communicated. And apparently they must
have done that a lot. And to show you how adventuresome so my grandfather must have been in those early days. My Grandfather's father was professor at the college for 42 years starting in 1839. And he was so concerned about my grandfather, when he was young, that he saw to it that the farmland was entailed to my mother and my aunt. Because they were afraid that he was so rowdy that he might misappropriate the farmland. But my grandfather did change, [laughter] and later he was on the trustees and later was chairman of the board of trustees. And was chairman of the board of trustees when the doctor--the President that went on to Puerto Rico.Glen Taul
428:00Oh, Yager.
Horace Hambrick
429:00Yager. Arthur Yager was president, they were very close friends. He was chairman
of the board when when Yage was--president, so he turned out all right. [laughter] But he had--in those days, they did that, because he was about 19 when my great-grandfather died and my great-grandfather must have been concerned about that. Well, that's the end ofthose stories.Don Cawthorne
430:00well, I've enjoyed the lunch. Thank you very much.
Horace Hambrick
431:00Well, and we appreciate your time, Don. We really do and--
432:00