Glen Taul
1:00Tape two of two, Marshall interview.
William Marshall: Because the grace of God.
Glen Taul
2:00Yeah.
William Marshall
3:00So I--go ahead.
Glen Taul
4:00We were--well you were talking about--
William Marshall
5:00Dorothy Melzer?
Glen Taul
6:00Yeah.
William Marshall
7:00Anyway, she--was very affirming and worked closely with me because I was the
editor and enabled me to learn some technical things about a newspaper that I would not have learned, had it to not been for her and for her connections. She was one that I hated to say goodbye to. She was probably 40 years old at the time I was there. I remember her pride (??) too. It was a very interesting relationship. It was not a weird relationship.Glen Taul
8:00Yeah.
William Marshall
9:00Or anything like that.
Glen Taul
10:00Yeah.
William Marshall
11:00There was a kind of affection. I understand she didn't stay long. I tried to--I
tried to find her.Glen Taul
12:00Oh, you have?
William Marshall
13:00Yeah. And understand. the last time I tried that some people seemed to think she
was alive somewhere. Ralph Curry would have been one to see, but he died. Well, that took that informatio, out I'm not sure Gwen (??) really knows.Glen Taul
14:00Yeah.
William Marshall
15:00I would always have liked to go back--I'm seventy now and--she's
possibly--probably not alive. So, she would have been 15 to 20 years older than I.Glen Taul
16:00Wow.
William Marshall
17:00So those are the four.
Glen Taul
18:00Now--if you were--did you have classes under Brad Jones?
William Marshall
19:00No.
Glen Taul
20:00Okay. Did--so you had classes under these other three? What--how did their
teaching styles differ or were they similar?William Marshall
21:00George Redding was more dramatic.
Glen Taul
22:00Can you give me an example?
William Marshall
23:00Well, for example, we had pretty well prepared for it because we had a--he had a
reputation for doing this. When we got to the part--the life, we had Life of Christ and the life of Paul, he taught both of those and we took those. In those days, religion classes, were--I think twelve hours, at least. He would come in on the occassion that we would have had Jesus in the temple, purging the temple. And he'd walk in and a lot of students hadn't heard what he might do. And he would walk in and very quietly look at the class. And then he would take on this angry look and then he'd turn his table over, which is where he taught from, and acted out. You know, he was a very expressive, he liked students. Probably spent a lot of time with them personally--I'd say he spent a lot of time with students personally. So, I'd say his style was more dramatic, more visual. Whereas, Dr. Coleman Arnold was--he would sit behind his desk and he--I took other courses of course. But under him, I took the Romantics, he would sit behind his desk. And tell us a little bit about the author or the writer. He was able to dig out the personal parts and in a rather brief way describe what might have been the--the inside of a man during the writing and the circumstances. Whether it was a broken heart or whatever. And you--you had a feel that you were gonna, that even if you had read what was written such as Byron or maybe Wordsworth, that you had this feeling that you were going to--to enjoy it in a way you didn't when you read it. And he-- but he would sit there and very gently read. He didn't try to dramatize it. Sometimes he would stand up. But he--he helped you see the humanity and the similarity of life experiences of the poets, but also that they were unusual people. And I think I began to realize a little bit that I was too.Glen Taul
24:00Now, was he a demanding, as far as homework?
William Marshall
25:00Yes.
Glen Taul
26:00Exacting (??).
William Marshall
27:00Yes. He was--he was a person, though, who would give you an opportunity to do
something if you failed to do it. To make it up.Glen Taul
28:00Now, what about Dorothy Mezler?
William Marshall
29:00In her teaching, I had the feeling she was uneasy. Some of these, you see, have
to be judgments, after the fact. You feel differently when you're experiencing it. But looking back on it, you maybe think at least, you understand what was going on. I think she was a new faculty member, and when she was into text, I don't know that she was really easy with it, in journalism. How do you teach journalism?Glen Taul
30:00Yeah.
William Marshall
31:00Other than the give, you know, give assignments that help you to--.
Glen Taul
32:00Yeah.
William Marshall
33:00--Write she--she wouldn't have us write and things like that. I don't remember,
as far as her teaching goes, I don't think I was impressed with that. I was impressed because I happened to be in a position as editor, which I later sought, where it thrust us together and I could--I could learn more from her practical side. And the encouragement she gave me to write but.Glen Taul
34:00Had she had any experience in newspaper writing.
William Marshall
35:00Yes. I don't know how much, I don't even remember that. It's a totally different
kind of subject. I don't--basically, I don't remember the details of the journalism class she taught.Glen Taul
36:00Huh, that's interesting.
William Marshall
37:00They kind of bleed over, the Romantic and the journalism for me, kind of bleed
over into each other. [laughter] There was another faculty member I didn't mention, but he taught restoration drama. His name was Albert Johnson. This was after--he influenced me somewhat. Actually Johnston--I think he had some personal problems in his life, and I lost touch with him after I left school and--I think he's dead.Glen Taul
38:00And did you ever get to know Dr. Hill very well, Sam Hill.
William Marshall
39:00Sam Hill. He knew--only in the sense socially. I mean, Janie was on campus. Sam
had just graduated, his son. Sam became a professor--.Glen Taul
40:00I've met him.
William Marshall
41:00Okay. Only in that way. He knew I was--
Glen Taul
42:00Okay.
William Marshall
43:00Called my name and all of that. Again, some of those were the wild days. And I'm
sure Janie knew that and was after all president's daughter. [laughter] I don't know whether Janie even went Greek or not. I don't remember.Glen Taul
44:00Yes, she did.
William Marshall
45:00Did she go Sigma or Del--or KD, those two were the only ones on the campus. It
had to be one of the two if she go--went Greek.Glen Taul
46:00I think she went Sigma [Kappa].
William Marshall
47:00I mean--I was--
Glen Taul
48:00I've interviewed her.
William Marshall
49:00I would see her there at Sigma. So, the president had an open house, I think
each year, at graduation, maybe. That's when I think I first got into the president's home and really impressed with that.Glen Taul
50:00Now that's, you know, what kind of--that house no longer stands. What do you
remember about that house?William Marshall
51:00The great hall. Walking into, it was a large space. And I hope my memory of that
is not bleeding over into what it looks like today, because I realized today, there is this great hall and--.Glen Taul
52:00Yeah.
William Marshall
53:00We moved to the right or to the left to dining and so on. I was just impressed,
it was a beautiful home, it was well furnished again, I wouldn't have been able to judge you know, whether it was 15th century or--.Glen Taul
54:00Yeah.
William Marshall
55:00--Whatever. But I remember being impressed with the beauty of the home and the
friendliness of Mr. and--Dr. and Mrs. Hill. She was a very friendly person.Glen Taul
56:00Okay.
William Marshall
57:00And he was friendly.
Glen Taul
58:00Okay.
William Marshall
59:00I even got to know him more, I got to know Evelyn a lot better.
Glen Taul
60:00Okay. Now, this quonset hut that you're talking about, was that considered the
student center?William Marshall
61:00Yes.
Glen Taul
62:00And that's where--what was located there?
William Marshall
63:00Do you mean what was in it?
Glen Taul
64:00Yeah.
William Marshall
65:00It was a grill.
Glen Taul
66:00Okay.
William Marshall
67:00And their mail--the mail was deposited there.
Glen Taul
68:00Okay.
William Marshall
69:00We had (??). I don't remember any tables there at all. So, it was all stand up
and take out, or it--that's what I remember about that. And that's all there was. Now, whether--it wasn't considered a place where students would gather as a group. But there were, I think they did call it--I think they called it the student center. I can't think of any other place on campus that was.Glen Taul
70:00Where did you get your books and supplies?
William Marshall
71:00I want to think it was there too. The food--walk into all that (??). I think it
might have been there too, very small. Again, I don't think there was any other place for it to be. There was only four or five buildings there when I was there.Glen Taul
72:00Now, did you ever have classes in Giddings [Hall]?
William Marshall
73:00Yes, I had astronomy under Dr. Mulligan (??). And I had household physics
[laughter] under Mulligan. They were required, you get to choose, you know, in this field [laughter]. I picked the two easiest. Because that wasn't my thing. Anyway, that's what I took there. Of course the Maskrafters productions were there.Glen Taul
74:00Or they had moved there by that time?
William Marshall
75:00Yes.
Glen Taul
76:00Okay.
William Marshall
77:00Yes, they were there. And George Redding, by the way--was one of the few
professors who ever performed and he was-- he did a couple of Shakesperians and did really well. I'm remember being impressed seeing him do that.Glen Taul
78:00So you knew where his interest came from in the classroom?
William Marshall
79:00Yes. There's no question about that. [laughter] He was an actor. But, a
gentleman, and an authentic one.Glen Taul
80:00Did you ever run into a bad professor at Georgetown?
William Marshall
81:00In what sense?
Glen Taul
82:00Were they, just absolutely bored you or they really didn't live up to the
ability to convey the knowledge?William Marshall
83:00Probably Dr. Jones--
Glen Taul
84:00W.E. Jones?
William Marshall
85:00But, he taught English.
Glen Taul
86:00Okay.
William Marshall
87:00And I took--the Origins of English Language or something like that. Chaucher,
you know Chaucer was in this and I was bored to death. I remember that. That didn't make him a bad teacher.Glen Taul
88:00Yeah.
William Marshall
89:00The same way with Dr. Weldon (??), who was the psychology teacher.
Glen Taul
90:00Yeah.
William Marshall
91:00He basically--he just got there--he'd give you a C no matter what. All the guys
took that course. Sometimes--in the spring, when it was warm again, some of the guys would--and he would doing something on the blackboard [chuckles], they would slip out by window. It was funny. [laughter] He'd never missed them. [laughter] And he would say--he was a gentle, gentle guy. He would say, "now if you miss a class, just bring me a note and tell me why--and I'll excuse you." [laughter] He really said that (??). That's true.Glen Taul
92:00Yeah.
William Marshall
93:00Janie would know. I told Janie just the other day, Dr. Weldon was there. I'd say
those--those two, neither one of which was, at that time in my life other than-I admit the proper gentleman's English class subject, particularly when he taught that, really was very boring.Glen Taul
94:00Yeah, interesting.
William Marshall
95:00Otherwise, a---all my professors were really--Mulligan was very interesting, he
was--an astronomer.Glen Taul
96:00So you were out--you went to Georgetown and you were in the Marines for two
years? Okay and then you came back and then graduated in '57? What [was] would your graduation ceremony like? Just describe the whole scene if you can, and what it meant to you.William Marshall
97:00The only person who was in the chapel, the same chapel, same chairs we
have--seats that we have today actually.Glen Taul
98:00They'll be gone pretty soon.
William Marshall
99:00I know [laughter]. It's it's--time. Alice and I had been engaged about
four--five or six months--five months and we were-- we knew that after graduation, we were going to Israel, had our tickets.Glen Taul
100:00Oh my gosh!
William Marshall
101:00Not right after graduation, at the end of summer, in August we went. So that was
all headed--I mean, I was thinking that. I remember being sad that it was coming to an end. I remember being very glad that I had come to this place. I was--remember being sorry that my mother was dead and couldn't come. She had died the year before, with cancer of at 48, and my father, whi by that time to have detached retinas and he considered himself an invalid. He did get to our wedding, but he was not there for graduation. I think--my brother and sister were there. I remember having that reflection and thinking, by my golly, I've made it and see, my younger brother, graduated [from] UK and was already in law school before I actually as a senior--I'm his elder.Glen Taul
102:00Yeah.
William Marshall
103:00Graduated from college with a--a BS. That really--it all runs together, I
remember bittersweet and excitement. The trip coming and marriage.Glen Taul
104:00Was the chapel filled?
William Marshall
105:00Yes, you know--a lot of--not with students I mean, 300, like we have this year
would be a huge graduating classGlen Taul
106:00Yeah.
William Marshall
107:00But there--there were a lot of people there. I remember the balconies were full,
you know, it was comfortably full, it wasn't fully--it wasn't completely full.Glen Taul
108:00Was there a whole week of activities or?
William Marshall
109:00I don't remember, now I remember--
Glen Taul
110:00Well, was there just baccalaureate--and the graduation?
William Marshall
111:00I don't even--pardon? Go ahead.
Glen Taul
112:00Was it just baccalaureate--and the graduation ceremony?
William Marshall
113:00Yes, and I don't remember the baccalaureate. I'm sure we had it, but I don't
remember it, nor do I remember the graduation. [laughter]Glen Taul
114:00Do you remember your commencement speaker?
William Marshall
115:00No I don't. [laughter]
Glen Taul
116:00I didn't think you did.
William Marshall
117:00I've done that a couple of--three times at different places and I've--grown old
enough and wise enough to know that hey, nobody can remember who did it and not be very--anybody that would remember what was said. So no, I don't remember.Glen Taul
118:00[laughs]--I remember man. Unfortunately, I couldn't hear anything and I wanted
to hear him.William Marshall
119:00Who was it?
Glen Taul
120:00John Sherman Cooper.
William Marshall
121:00Oh my goodness, I would love to heard him, I only met him once in my life.
Glen Taul
122:00His sister graduated from Georgetown and she was having--her class was having
one of their anniversaries that year. And so Dr. [Robert L.] Mills?? was able to get him to come and speak. And this is the first time we had commencement outdoors in front of Giddings.William Marshall
123:00What year was that?
Glen Taul
124:00'73. And he got up there and his voice is soft anyway and there was a wind
blowing across the microphone. And he sort of was--that plus him fiddling with his notes. I Just couldn't listen to--hear a word he was saying.William Marshall
125:00At least you have an impression of--.
Glen Taul
126:00I--yeah.
William Marshall
127:00--Who spoke. I'm going through our family stuff. And I'm putting it all
together, I'm sure that we will have--I will have a commencement bulletin--.Glen Taul
128:00Program.
William Marshall
129:00Yeah, so I--that will tell me and maybe that'll bring something back. But I
don't have any recollection of that at all. With Paul Eddleman standing there. And we'd gotten to really know him because of this connection with Israel he had--.Glen Taul
130:00Oh yeah.
William Marshall
131:00--Had made and--
Glen Taul
132:00Yeah.
William Marshall
133:00Cause we were gonna be the first to go. So, that I remember that, but nothing else.
Glen Taul
134:00Was there--I mean, what was the drill? Was there--you all were called up one at
a time and--.William Marshall
135:00One at a time to receive our diplomas, especially rolled up at the time.
Glen Taul
136:00They were rolled up okay. Were they paper or sheets then?
William Marshall
137:00Gosh, I don't remember. I've got it.
Glen Taul
138:00Yeah.
William Marshall
139:00But I don't remember it. I'm sure it was a high-quality paper, because--it seems
to me. And I could be wrong, they may not have been rolled back. I sort of visualize this pile of--Glen Taul
140:00Roled.
William Marshall
141:00Rolled ones. --I can't be sure about that.
Glen Taul
142:00Was it--wasas it based on a religious worship service or was it--another format?
William Marshall
143:00It was--it was--I'm sure. Without remembering, I'm sure that the person would
have been a non-controversial person. But, again, I don't having anything there. Nothing comes back.Glen Taul
144:00Yeah. Let me see if there's anything we haven't heard that you did the first
time. You mind helping me--saying anything about your dating wife and meeting her?William Marshall
145:00Yeah. This lady who was my house mother and Adams House, her name was Mama Ashby
(??). And we had corresponded. She had by then moved over to a girl's house, I've forgotten which one, and became a house mother there, Adams, I think closed up, and she's--she knew about our exchanges. She knew I was getting ready to come back on campus. So, she cut out a picture out of something. It might have been an old previous years Belle--Glen Taul
146:00Belle of the Blue.
William Marshall
147:00Belle of the Blue, and then she cut out Alice's picture and said, "I want you to
know this girl." She didn't tell Alice that. [laughter] So that would be the first--.Glen Taul
148:00Introduction.
William Marshall
149:00Introduction, though I didn't know what Alice, hadn't seen her--she'd--two
years, so she was a junior by the time I got back.Glen Taul
150:00Okay.
William Marshall
151:00So she was--the first two years I got out of the Marine Corps, and I wouldn't
have known her from Adam. [coughs] Though, when I came back on campus, it was a fun time because I felt--it was really funny, not something you could really print, but I felt--I could tell that having been in the Marine Corps and being older, that there was a new. I was kind of like a new person. And I could tell that--that people respected that. And most of the ones who knew me as Moose, had already graduated, or would be graduating. So in a sense, it was like a new start. I had been with--a couple of girls I was dating in Frankfort. One of them married. The only one I would have been serious about, she--let's not get into it. [laughter] I dated several girls.Glen Taul
152:00Okay.
William Marshall
153:00And then I had seen Alice, and I had been sensitive to that because of Mama
Ashby, which Alice didn't know.Glen Taul
154:00Yeah.
William Marshall
155:00About that. And a roommate, a man who had been a roommate of mine, at Adams
House. A football player, E.B. Smith was dating a girl whom he married, who was a sigma, and she was a friend of Alice. So--and you gotta remember that, in the fall, before any of this happened with Alice, is when I felt for the first time in my life, I really was a Christian, when I received Christ and was rebaptised. So that was--at the church, but that was in the early fall. And by then, I mean, I was from then on, I was going to church a lot. Wednesdays nights as well, a lot of students went to the Wednesday night service. He invited me to go on a blind date, I knew who it would be.Glen Taul
156:00Yeah.
William Marshall
157:00And Silvia had arranged for Alice to go with me. So, we first met, I mean, with
any--she knew me and I knew her by that time.Glen Taul
158:00Right.
William Marshall
159:00Or we knew about each other.
Glen Taul
160:00Yeah.
William Marshall
161:00And we went to church that night, and went afterward to the campus cottage.
Glen Taul
162:00Oh.
William Marshall
163:00In one of the booths, and we had sodas.
Glen Taul
164:00Yeah.
William Marshall
165:00And whatever. So, that was my first day with Alice. It was--I don't know whether
I'm saying too much on this.Glen Taul
166:00No, you're not. It sort of gives us an idea of what the dating--.
Unkown
167:00Can I just come in here to get something?
William Marshall
168:00That first date would have been in the late fall, after I made my decision. My
call to preach as well as my conversion. I was still dating a girl on Frankfort. So, I really hadn't gotten my weight down on Alice at that point. At that point, I'm sure I wasn't really thinking about marriage.Glen Taul
169:00Yeah.
William Marshall
170:00So our relationship matured. I started dating her more often. I was going home
on the weekends to work, actually at Kroger. I had a car by then and I had the GI Bill from the Marine Corps. So, I was financially better off than I was in those other years, and I was more independent. And I dated--I said, I continued dating a girl in Frankfort and I dated a girl from Georgetown, who I liked a lot. Her name is Janet Clayton. She is Warren Nash's mother.Glen Taul
171:00Oh.
William Marshall
172:00And I knew her--I met his father too, they were Georgetown. But, I began to
settle in with Alice. And it was--I don't remember--it would have been, certainly by Christmas, I was dating her alone and had begun to--to see her as a partner. It was them--it was not an up and down relationship. From my point of view, it might have been from hers. I'm sure I'm--takes a while to settle into the idea of dating someone and only someone.Glen Taul
173:00Yeah.
William Marshall
174:00We didn't really--we all in the Greek--we didn't go through the pinning service
or anything.Glen Taul
175:00Was she a sorority?
William Marshall
176:00She was, yeah, she became president of Sigma Kappa the last year she was--.
Glen Taul
177:00Okay.
William Marshall
178:00And--so, I got involved with some of the Sigma stuff and got to know the girls
and her friends in particular. There's not much to tell other than--.Glen Taul
179:00What kind of obstacles did rules or did they present any obstacles for you all
for dating, the college?William Marshall
180:00Other than the time of being in, I think--I forgot what the weekly, whether it was
181:00 , 182:00, or 183:00And I think the weekend was or Saturday, maybe midnight. But there, you know, you had to be in. Many, times we just walked on campus.Glen Taul
184:00Even though you had--you had the ability to go off-campus.
William Marshall
185:00We did some, yeah. Usually with another couple, a friend of mine named Joe
Mason, and a girl who, who he was dating whom he married and we would drive over to Lexington. And we'd go--we'd drive usually on the back road, that went up where the dam is on Elkhorn Creek, about six or seven miles from campus where the fraternity boy was drowned. And--and that became something fun, we'd--go, just drive.Glen Taul
186:00Yeah.
William Marshall
187:00And then.
188:00