Oral History Interview with Janie Hill Polk Part II

Glen Taul

This is an unrehearsed interview with Janie Hill Polk, by Glen Taul. The interview took place at the home a Clif Hagan, at 3637 Hidden Pond (??) Road, in Lexington, Kentucky on November 19th, 2001. It is funded in part by a grant from the Kentucky Oral History Commission. This is the second of two tapes. [pause in tape]

Glen Taul

Okay, all right. And you were talking--continuing about the song fest.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, campus sing. So we would win that. And that was a great experience and hearing--you very clearly saw--identified it before you on the stage of the chapel, who was a member of what. And you heard them sing and you saw effort. You saw ability. You saw team spirit, and it was very important to win that. And again, everybody was in the chapel. This was not some divided thing.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

We were all there watching each other. So, identity was certainly formed. There then--.

Glen Taul

Was it a competition, by any chance?

Janie Hill Polk

Um-hmm.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, surely.

Glen Taul

Just like it is today.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, well, I don't know what it's like today.

Glen Taul

Yeah, it's a competition today.

Janie Hill Polk

Sure.

Glen Taul

Except it's--not all the performers are in the chapel. And they're all in the cafeteria, getting ready, getting dressed. And at the performance today is--they can do dances and plays or whatever, or yours sounds like it was more--.

Janie Hill Polk

Sing, that was a song.

Glen Taul

Just a song. And you were dressed up very formally.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, it would certainly be modeled after what a choir was like.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

After what the chapel choir was like. Chapel choir was wonderful. We traveled all over everywhere. Some of our fondest memories are of chapel choir.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

But when---when a girl was pinned, received a fraternity of a boy. Then there was a formal pinning ceremony.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Janie Hill Polk

Which means that the girl and boy stand on the porch of the sorority house, and the fraternity brothers all come and he pins her formally. And then, the fraternity sings a song like, "KA Rose" or "The Kappa Alpha Rose," or the--"Pi Kappa Alpha Sweetheart," something.

Glen Taul

So--it would be the song of the fraternity.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right.

Glen Taul

The theme song of the fraternity.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right. Well, whatever had to do with love.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And it just, my heavens. It just made you want to be pinned so bad. [laughter] This was so seductive. It was really romantic and wonderful. I think there may have been an exchange of flowers. I don't know if that's in my mind that you got a bouquet, I don't know. But then often, we'd sing back to them.

Glen Taul

Really? Huh. Now, this was just basically a public recognition of--this woman and man, we're gonna go pub--dating?

Janie Hill Polk

No, pinned, pinned meant--it was pre-engagement.

Glen Taul

Oh, it was pre--okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And most people who were pinned got married.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And if somebody gave the pin back, that was big news.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Because it was serious--pinning was serious.

Glen Taul

Okay. Now, the women didn't do the same with--with the--?

Janie Hill Polk

No, I couldn't even imagine. I can't imagine a girl pinning a boy. Can't imagine.

Glen Taul

At that time?

Janie Hill Polk

No, no. [laughter] Can't imagine it.

Glen Taul

I don't know if they would do it today or not.

Janie Hill Polk

I don't think so either. And sometime, there would be serenades sometimes sororities and fraternities would walk around and serenade.

Glen Taul

And this would involve Christmas?

Janie Hill Polk

Well--yes

Glen Taul

It involved--.

Janie Hill Polk

Yes.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

Probably. Probably. Serenades were marvelous. We just loved serenades. You'd practice for a serenade like you did campus sing. And again, look at what it's doing, it's the unit.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

They're doing something, together.

Glen Taul

Now, did the independents do this too?

Janie Hill Polk

I believe they did. They--the independents never had as strong an organization, because they were not mirrored (??) to all the national.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

With all the ranks.

Glen Taul

Well--they weren't actively recruited.

Janie Hill Polk

That's correct. That's correct.

Glen Taul

They were just there.

Janie Hill Polk

That's correct.

Glen Taul

--Cause they were--.

Janie Hill Polk

That's correct.

Glen Taul

--Assinged there.

Janie Hill Polk

That's correct, it wasn't selective, yes.

Glen Taul

So that would be--.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right.

Glen Taul

--The difference.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right.

Glen Taul

I mean, the only---when you were going there, and the only dorms there were Rucker, for women and Pawling for men. I don't believe there was another men's dorm, was there?

Janie Hill Polk

I don't think so. Calhoun Hall was there for women. It was two houses joined together.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And how many could live there? Probably eight bedrooms, with two in each, side-by-side. And there was some independent halls and houses where independents lived, guys--independent guys--.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

---Lived, over on Main Street.

Glen Taul

Oh, on Main Street?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

Okay. Didn't realize, where about--?

Janie Hill Polk

See--when--when the war was over, the campus was just flooded with veterans. And so, they had to have houses--the college bought houses and put students up in houses.

Glen Taul

Ken Fendley says that he remembers--of course they brought in barrack--old barracks that the army was surplusing.

Janie Hill Polk

Right.

Glen Taul

--And they didn't have any amenities at all. In fact they all--.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right. In fact, the bookstore was in a quonset hut.

Glen Taul

And was the cafeteria also?

Janie Hill Polk

The cafeteria, no. The cafeteria was always in Rucker Hall.

Glen Taul

Now did you as a--when you stayed in the sorority, did the sorority had their own meals and--?

Janie Hill Polk

No, no--at the only cafeteria there was.

Glen Taul

Was in Rucker.

Janie Hill Polk

Was in Rucker and then there were--what could you get? Seems like in the bookstore you could get something, candy bars, maybe pubs (??), something.

Glen Taul

Snacky-type things?

Janie Hill Polk

Maybe, yeah, but I mean it was it. Look--look at what this does. You have chapel, compulsory attendance at chapel. You have one cafeteria, you have all these events in which the whole campus space visible to you. --We really were identified--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--As a student body.

Glen Taul

Well, would you call it a community?

Janie Hill Polk

Um-hmm. I certainly would and it's there today. When I was over for homecoming, and went to the Sigma Kappa house, they--it was absolutely marvelous. All the houses, I mean, if I'd walked across the campus spotting the trees I'd climbed. As I walked across the campus, is that noise that the--joyful laughter, everything that was coming from the houses and then walking down--wat do you call that, a quadrangle?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Walking down there. There was people milling about, it was like a movie. Really was like a movie.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Nice-looking people on beautiful fall day at this campus, and happiness and joy and all that. It--and then they, what do they have when they go out and sing in the quadrangle? It's your turn--for the sing-around?

Glen Taul

You know, I'm not familiar with that.

Janie Hill Polk

Well, I'd like for you to see it. But they--.

Glen Taul

Oh, you mean the Sigmas?

Janie Hill Polk

All--they took turns, you had your turn.

Glen Taul

Oh, I see. I think I got to homecoming, I got in on--one of the sororities doing it.

Janie Hill Polk

And so when it was your turn, and I had to leave because I had and appointment back here and I couldn't stay and I was just so disappointed about that. But, I had to leave just--as it was occurring. And they would clap their hands.[clapping hands].

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Walk out into the center that quadrangle and sing.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And I'd like to go to one of those sometime, because, that's--these young people will carry that with them the rest of their lives.

Glen Taul

Now, what was involved in initiation?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, you had to pass some kind of test. You had to know history of the sorority and what the philanthropy was of this sorority. Ours was the Maine Sea Coast Mission, and it's still supported by monies from Sigma Kappa chapters all over the country. You had to know who the officers were of the national sorority. You had to know a bunch of things. And so after you passed your test, and your grades were okay, and you were passed on to be initiated, then the secret--the initiation is, of course, secret. And it was all this ceremony about it. And I told, told--the three other women who, who were in Sigma when I was and we had a reunion this fall, which was just so full of wonderful friendship. And I said, I'd like to see the initiation--read it now." Because it was based on mythology.

Glen Taul

Oh, it was?

Janie Hill Polk

I'm sure. And it's secret, you know. So, once you are initiated, you and the other initiants, other actives in the sorority, know something that nobody else does. And this again, brings you together as a group. You have your secret handshake and your secret this and that and the other.

Glen Taul

What was can you describe sort of, without giving away any secrets, the--sort of the ceremony?

Janie Hill Polk

No, I don't think so. --The President was in a white, white robe of some kind and read you something, read something and you pledged something. And I guess it's eternal loyalty. [laughter] I don't know what it is we pledged, but then, it was--it was really special. Then they have banquet afterwards, and you had a big sister, she gave you something and got your pin. It was--it was marvelous.

Glen Taul

Was there any hazing involved?

Janie Hill Polk

A little bit, not much. They were they--a little bit tough on us. The fraternities, that was another thing.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

But, I remember that when I was a freshman and going through pledging, we tried to play tricks and jokes on the active, and not let them know who did it. So, I had several friends who came to our house---the president's house [laughter] and we made Toll House cookies and put Ex-lax [type of laxative] in them.

Glen Taul

Oh, you mean that actually was done?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, we did.

Glen Taul

Oh, my gosh.

Janie Hill Polk

We did it. You still know what Ex-lax is?

Glen Taul

Yes, oh, I do.

Janie Hill Polk

Yes. And so, my brother was attending the Louisville--The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--At the time. He took the package of cookies to Louisville and mailed them there so they'd have a Louisville--.

Glen Taul

Oh, he was in on the game.

Janie Hill Polk

And we mailed them to a particular active, who we wanted to play a joke on. So then, of course, we were just curious as to what was going on, did the actives get them? [laughter] And you had to act like you didn't know anything about it.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

You know, and so forth. So, we heard that a couple of the girls missed classes and that things were really going along smoothly at the Sigma Kappa house. We heard all that kind of stuff, and then, all pledges--that the presence of all pledges was required at the Sigma Kappa house, at some evening. And so, the actives were really stern, and they brought us in and we stood in a circle, and it was told that somebody in our midst, in our pledge class had dreamed up a scheme, which was horrible and harmful, and that we had to pay the consequences. And so, we were given a choice as to whether we wanted--.

Glen Taul

This is an old trick.

Janie Hill Polk

We were given our choice as to whether we wanted cod liver oil, or Philips milk of magnesia. And they went--and around the room with bottles of each and every pledge had to take this. And I remember that and I don't remember suffering any dire consequences of that, but it got around the campus, big time. And--that--they--nobody ever directly accuse me of it, but it was suspected.

Glen Taul

Suspected.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, yeah (??).

Glen Taul

So which one did you take?

Janie Hill Polk

Milk of magnesia.

Glen Taul

[laughs] It was still chalky then?

Janie Hill Polk

Yes, oh, it was horrible.

Glen Taul

It was--.

Janie Hill Polk

It was horrible.

Glen Taul

But not as bad as cod liver oil?

Janie Hill Polk

I guess. [laughter] I was familiar with milk of magnesia. [laughter] Sometimes hazing, they tried to make you scared. And we had to put our hands in and feel things and they had peeled a bunch of grapes.

Glen Taul

Yeah that's--.

Janie Hill Polk

And they called them eyeballs.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And then, cold spaghetti was probably worms.

Glen Taul

Guts. Or guts.

Janie Hill Polk

Guts, yeah.

Glen Taul

With spaghetti sauce.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah. I Remember that--that's all I remember. But--.

Glen Taul

Well, that's kind of--.

Janie Hill Polk

--You were scared you were gonna be scared and scared that you didn't--you weren't gonna act right.

Glen Taul

Did they treat you like--I've seen some fraternities treat their pledges this way. They'd just treat you like you were dirt. Like some--

Janie Hill Polk

No, not--like dirt, but you certainly were not a first-class citizen.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

You were a pledge, and you had to prove it in order to be an active. You had to jump through these hoops in order to be an active and you wanted to be inactive. So.

Glen Taul

Very interesting.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, I guess. I wonder what they do now. [laughter]

Glen Taul

--I just have--suspect that they're a little bit more aggressive.

Janie Hill Polk

Do you--

Glen Taul

I think--.

Janie Hill Polk

--I would it think would fade out?

Glen Taul

Just--.

Janie Hill Polk

I can't imagine--

Glen Taul

--Just given--

Janie Hill Polk

--Anybody doing that kind of stuff, now.

Glen Taul

Just given the tenor--no, maybe not the sorority so much.

Janie Hill Polk

No, I don't think.

Glen Taul

I would think.

Janie Hill Polk

--Let's hope so.

Glen Taul

--I spok to some of the freshmen over at Georgetown and--well at least in the new sorority that they have over there, and it didn't seem like it's that bad.

Janie Hill Polk

I Just can't imagine that. That--that's so childish. Oh, that's so sophomoric.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

It, [laughs] just is, but that was what we did.

Glen Taul

What do you remember about your first year at college?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, it was finally there.

Glen Taul

The classes--.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

--And some of the professors.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, the professorsd, yeah. Dr. Coleman Arnold was just an idol of mine. He was absolutely fine, English was his field. And he made everything come alive, and I adored him. I remember that--I took---I went to summer school and took English, just after I graduated from high school. Because I knew it was really time consuming. English was writing all the themes and things and I wanted to get out of the way, so I could play. I was a cheerleader and all that. So, I took English in summer school and under Dr. Arnold. And we had to write, since it was only six weeks course--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--We did a whole semester in six weeks.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And I had to write a theme a day. And that was good discipline. And I've got---still got some of them. Some unsophisticated, but tales of things I was doing. I was just--.

Glen Taul

So like, these were personal experiences. And they were like several page--and just--.

Janie Hill Polk

There would be two pages.

Glen Taul

Two pages?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And you were graded grammar and spelling and punctuation and--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

All that.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

It was a real--.

Glen Taul

How about handwriting?

Janie Hill Polk

I don't remember that. I'm left handed, but--my handwriting was pretty good.

Glen Taul

Now did students--did any of the students--typewriters would have been fairly prevalent back then. Did students have typewriters?

Janie Hill Polk

I think some did. I remember not doing well in typing in high school. Because you'd have to imagine this, now in the day of computer.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Imagine, you had to type a whole without making any mistakes.

Glen Taul

I know.

Janie Hill Polk

Can you do that?

Glen Taul

No. [laughter]

Janie Hill Polk

It's really--

Glen Taul

But I took typing in--in high school too.

Janie Hill Polk

I do too and--.

Glen Taul

One semester.

Janie Hill Polk

And then--years and years and years later, when I became computer literate, I remembered the keyboard, from a high school class.

Glen Taul

Me too, it's like riding a bicycle.

Janie Hill Polk

Is that wonderful?

Glen Taul

It is.

Janie Hill Polk

That the brain will retain that.

Glen Taul

Yeah, and then there's other things to the brain won't retain.

Janie Hill Polk

That's, oh, we know that--we know that. [laughter] We could talk a long time about that. Well, some people could type and I never did learn to tipe, never did use it, and I did not use it.

Glen Taul

What's another professor you remember?

Janie Hill Polk

Mrs. Melzer (??) was the speech teacher, and she was good. And Ms. Calhoun, I was at the very end of Ms. Calhoun's time. She was Dean of Women and was good speech and drama. And I had one or two classes under her. She was really tough, really good and really tough.

Glen Taul

Now, what--when you say tough, what do you?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, her standards were just very high and you had to comply exactly with what she wanted or you were out. Ms. Munson (??) was the French teacher.

Glen Taul

I remember her.

Janie Hill Polk

Excellent, excellent--excellent teacher.

Glen Taul

What was their personalities like?

Janie Hill Polk

Their personalities?

Glen Taul

In teaching.

Janie Hill Polk

Lecture, they lectured using their own personal styles. We knew who they were, they knew who we were. They knew everybody's name. We knew who they were, they had reputations. Dr. Weldon (??), have you heard of him? Taught psychology, he was a joke. And you could just pull any wool in the world you wanted to over his eyes. And he--said "Dr. Weldon, I didn't have time to study because I was talking with one of my friends last night, whose in terrible trouble. And I figured you'd rather that I spend time talking with her than studying." And he believed it.

Glen Taul

Oh my!

Janie Hill Polk

And he'd give you a grade anyway. Now in retrospect was he--were we losers? It--did he know, and he just did it anyway or what? But, I mean you could get by with stuff with him. Dr. Daliey(??) was my Bible professor.

Glen Taul

C.R. Dailey?

Janie Hill Polk

Um-hmm.

Glen Taul

Now, what was he like as a teacher?

Janie Hill Polk

Outstanding. Interesting. Good lecturer. Interesting--had a grasp--good grasp of the material. Excellent.

Glen Taul

How did you respond to lecturing as a way of learning?

Janie Hill Polk

Well of course, you were supposed to do it. You see, we were not the questioning generation.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

It was presented to you and you are took notes, and you studied, and you did what they told you to do. And then you regurgitated it. I do not remember being challenged to think independently.

Glen Taul

Okay. So, there was no back and forth discussion?

Janie Hill Polk

There--not much. If there was, there may have been questions, but I can't remember any kind of intellectual inquiries or questioning your professor. Maybe I wasn't in the classes that did that. I had to take chemistry, and the only reason passed it was, I was going with a guy, who is now a doctor, who was excellent at it. And he got me through it. I was terrible at it, just terrible. I think Dr. Wilson was our teacher Doc Wilson, and he was not a very good teacher. And I was a terrible, terrible chemistry student.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Now why was he terrible? I mean what--was it his methods or?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, I just don't think his standards were high, slovenly. Think about it, who would stay on at Georgetown in those years, when the salaries were so very low, when this was not an academically respected yet institution. Who are gonna be your professors? Dedicated Christians, people who lived in the area.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

People who are graduates of Georgetown, active in the Baptist Church. That's who your professors were.

Glen Taul

Well, we know that all of them can't be highest--high quality.

Janie Hill Polk

No, that's correct.

Glen Taul

I mean--.

Janie Hill Polk

That's correct.

Glen Taul

Dr. Arnold was a Georgetown graduate, and he's well-respected.

Janie Hill Polk

Um-hmm.

Glen Taul

You said--.

Janie Hill Polk

Doctor.

Glen Taul

Mrs. Calhoun.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

Or Ms. Calhoun.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, she was--.

Glen Taul

--Was a Georgetown graduate.

Janie Hill Polk

Yes.

Glen Taul

Higly-respected.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right.

Glen Taul

And Ms. Munson was a Georgetown graduate there for years. Now, I had Ms. Munson for French.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, did you?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

What did you think of her style?

Glen Taul

I [chuckles] got tickled at her. Well, she reminded me of an old maid.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, that's what she was. [laughter] An angry (??) lady.

Glen Taul

but she was very, yeah, yu're right. She was very strict and she did take a particular interest in her students and sometimes. Of course I've heard--.

Janie Hill Polk

Well, she would say to me, "you can do better than you're doing and I want to see you do it." How could you get something like that in a university or a large one.

Glen Taul

Did she take a personal interest in your personal life? I've heard stories about her taking interest in some--.

Janie Hill Polk

No.

Glen Taul

--Of her students personal lives--.

Janie Hill Polk

No. Yeah. No. She did--Jonie Welch Tauley (??) Who later became---went Fulbright went to The Sorbonne.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Janie Hill Polk

And was a guide at the United Nations using French.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah. Of course, of course she was--.

Glen Taul

She was always--I can remember her always recruiting people. She--she's always telling somebody, "now--there's I got a call from high school the other day, and they're looking for French teachers." She was telling somebody. And--.

Janie Hill Polk

She played a big role in their lives, and now you can look at it and think, we played a big role in her's too.

Glen Taul

Well, and we've got some of her personal effects at the college.

Janie Hill Polk

Do you really?

Glen Taul

And her scrapbook, and I was just, she played basketball--.

Janie Hill Polk

Is that right?

Glen Taul

--At her high school.

Janie Hill Polk

Wonder why she never married, it's quite alright that she never married, but that she didn't. Because she was--she had all the skills, you would think, necessary for a partnership like that?

Glen Taul

Yeah, I don't know. But, she's an interesting--and I never knew Ms. Calhoun very well.

Janie Hill Polk

Well, she was your quintessential maiden lady. But, a fine actress and highly respected. Rena Calhoun.

Glen Taul

Rena Calhoun. And I know the hall was named her.

Janie Hill Polk

That's correct. That's correct. And they just gave their lives to the college.

Glen Taul

Now, did you ever have Dr. [Horace] Hambrick for a teacher?

Janie Hill Polk

No, no, he was Sam--he was my brother's contemporary.

Glen Taul

Well, I know--but he started teaching at Georgetown in 1950, '51.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

Who did you have for history, Dr. Fields?

Janie Hill Polk

I'd have to do some searching on that.

Glen Taul

But, it doesn't come to mind just like that though?

Janie Hill Polk

History of Civilization--I took Hiistory of Ciivilization. Who was the teacher? I didn't like it, it bored me to death? I can't recall. I cannot recall.

Glen Taul

So--what attracted your--I mean, what kind of lecture got your interest? How did--if someone was bringing the subject alive?

Janie Hill Polk

Well, I think--I think I've always like order and logic--a lot--presented in an attractive way. Let's see, Ms. Munson was so orderly, and you knew where you were starting. You knew where you were headed. And those kind of boundaries, I liked very much. And then she presented things very clearly. And told you what to practice and what to do and did it. So she got to me, and Dr. Arnold loved the English authors, loved the English language. He made those people come alive, and his pants would almost fall off every lecture period. They would slip down and down and down, and you were just holding your breath [laughter]. They were gonna fall off. Then just about when they were at a point of not to be retrieved, he would pull up his pant, stick in his shirt, and then you'd start the whole process all over. [laughter] Pants--they were--. But he-- and if he realized that, he would blush. But he knew, knew those authors and we just loved English Lit. I just adored English Lit. Because, he made those people come alive. And he would read their poetry, or have us read their essays or poetry and it was alive, the stories. Dr. Dailey did a very good job with the Bible, along that same line.

Glen Taul

Did you all have to--how many hour--credit hours did you have to have of the Bible to graduate?

Janie Hill Polk

I don't know--three--six--six maybe.

Glen Taul

Probably six?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

And so, you took both of yours from Dr. Dailey. Did you take it Old or New Testament or was it?

Janie Hill Polk

Old.

Glen Taul

It was old. I had Joe Lewis and I took both of them old. Didn't know too much about that, less about that than I did the--.

Janie Hill Polk

--The New Testament--.

Glen Taul

Yes, it made sense to me (??)

Janie Hill Polk

We've heard that, yeah. Choir was a big thing with Dr. Dav-- [tape cuts off]. [Tape resumes] From the South or because he was a Presbyterian, of all things. Highly criticized, and Dr. Davis was an excellent musician and--let us, we had a really good chamber choir. Dr. Anders (??) was there, and he got into some kind of trouble. What kind of trobule was it? I don't know, some kind of trouble, and he didn't last long. But he was---he was good too. Dr. Bonowitz (??) was--.

Glen Taul

[Inaudible]

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, when we got there in '42 and had Parkinson's, the kind--the stiff kind of Parkinson, and he was bowled over and you'd think he was gonna fall when he walked. In his day, he must have been fine a musician.

Glen Taul

Huh.

Janie Hill Polk

Fine. I just got in on the very end of him--very end of Dr. Jones. No classes, I just remember him seeing go--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--As a little girl.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--Going across the campus. Dr. Jones.

Glen Taul

I've heard a lot about Dr. Jones.

Janie Hill Polk

He was---he was apparently good, I never had him.

Glen Taul

At one time, he was an interim president. I've forgot--between which presidents he was, but he was an interim president at--at one time.

Janie Hill Polk

Dr. Judd (??) was the Dean toward--when I was in college. And he said to me at the end of my sophomore year, "next semester, Janie, I want to see you on the Dean's list." And I said, "Dr. Judd, you've got me mixed up with my brother." [laughter] "He's the academic one." And he, said "I don't have you mixed up at all." He said, "I want to see you on the Dean's list." And that was a turning point. I thought, wouldn't that be something because Sam excelled so far in that area, I never saw myself as anything except less than he, in academics. And so, I had never even thought so seriously. Consideredmyself having much of an intellect. And when Dr. Judd said that, I thought, wouldn't that be something? And I was, I got on the Dean's list and stayed on it. But if hadn't said that to me.

Glen Taul

Now, was there a particular--when you were in college, expectation to be high grades by your parents?

Janie Hill Polk

Well, I thought so.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

I don't remember any pressure from them.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

But, I thought I should be.

Glen Taul

Was---

Janie Hill Polk

After all I was--.

Glen Taul

--Just for curiosity, like your first semester, did you Cs, or did you have a good mixture of B's and A's and Cs or?

Janie Hill Polk

I was an average B student.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

All the way through. I would certainly have a C, if it chemistry, or anything math related?

Glen Taul

See, I had a difficult first semester. And I was barely lucky [chuckles] to get enough Cs out there--in the first semester.

Janie Hill Polk

Was that because it was---the subjects were not.

Glen Taul

Well, I don't know what it was. It's just the college experience was new, and after that, I started picking up. I got maybe two C's the next semester.

Janie Hill Polk

Well, it--.

Glen Taul

The rest of them were As and Bs.

Janie Hill Polk

It--one of the things.

Glen Taul

---That was including the week I spent in the hospital.

Janie Hill Polk

Wow. Yeah, it it certainly is---developmentally, we need to learn to recognize that we all learn in different ways. And for people whose memory is--is excellent and they can retain facts and absolutes, they do well in math, they do well in science, they do well, in remembering history dates. And then there are others of us who don't think in those absolute terms.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And so, we can do well over there, but not over here and the science and math and because science and math is so exalted, you get the idea that you're not very smart. And that's not true at all, it was--certainly was proven with you.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Do you remember any of your science teachers? You said--you didn't have Dr. Weldon, I take it?

Janie Hill Polk

Dr. Weldon?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

He was--.

Glen Taul

---You had your--.

Janie Hill Polk

--Psychology.

Glen Taul

You had him and--.

Janie Hill Polk

And--.

Glen Taul

You had chemistry.

Janie Hill Polk

That's it, how did I get by? I didn't take any math.

Glen Taul

No biology.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, Mary Wharton (??).

Glen Taul

Oh, she was there then?

Janie Hill Polk

Mary Wharton was good. She was dry, and because we'd had discussions about her at home, I knew she was wonderful. She had a wonderful spirit and minds and so forth. She was really, really dry.

Glen Taul

As a lecturer?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, really dry. But I liked--.

Glen Taul

Did you have labs?

Janie Hill Polk

--I like the lab, when we started dissecting frogs and all that, I really liked that. And I thought that was very interesting. I did okay in biology. Dr. Lindsay, what did he teach?

Glen Taul

He taught biology.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, I had class under him in biology. So, there we have it. That's the way I got rid of those science and math requirements. A semester chemistry, and then two or three of biology someplace Music, one of my minors was in music. And I would have--I had a double minor, I would have done well, except math came into theory, music theory. When the third--when the third goes up a half, a fourth goes down a third. I mean, there's all these equations--.

Glen Taul

Oh, yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--In music. And I couldn't do it.

Glen Taul

To me, you know, I would probably have to play intuitively, rather than mathematically.

Janie Hill Polk

But--and you could play. You could come out with it playing just beautifully. But in order to take the--in order to have a minor or a major in music, you had to go through theory of music and know all those formulas and equations.

Glen Taul

What was your major?

Janie Hill Polk

Speech.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

[clears throat] And we had to give a speech recital, very much as musicians, give a music recital, we gave a speech recital. And again, I had gone to recitals from the time I was in the sixth grade and on. Because mother and daddy couldn't leave me at home by myself and they'd take me with them, to all these things. So, I had seen recitals, heard recitals forever. I enjoyed my singing recitals.

Glen Taul

That sounds like a holdover from earlier Georgetown days, when oratory contests were the main attraction on campus. Before--.

Janie Hill Polk

Probably so.

Glen Taul

--Athletics came into their own.

Janie Hill Polk

--Probably so.

Glen Taul

So, what were the--what were those recitals like?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, you quoted or read poetry or essays of your choice. And you--how you presented them. how you read them. We were supposed to be the accomplished one in this. And then, you had your piece that you did and I wrote mine. And it was on Horace Hambrick's grandmother, Mrs. Thomas.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Janie Hill Polk

And went and interviewed her--.

Glen Taul

Ah.

Janie Hill Polk

--At length on what Georgetown was like in her day.

Glen Taul

Oh, that would have ben cool.

Janie Hill Polk

It was cool. It was--it was--.

Glen Taul

You still have it?

Janie Hill Polk

I think I do--I think I do.

Glen Taul

If you ever find it, I'd like to have a copy of it.

Janie Hill Polk

Alright. Well, it was received well--.

Glen Taul

Now--.

Janie Hill Polk

And so, I was gonna be a speech teacher. And in my senior--second semester of my senior year, I came across in some research project, I was doing, the word speech therapy. It's the first time I ever heard it, and this is one or two or three times in my life that I've known something immediately. I saw the word speech and therapy put together.

Glen Taul

Oh, yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And I thought, I have to do that. So I did. And I had to go to graduate school and do all that then. You see, and I didn't intend for my life to go in that direction. [laughter] But I like--I like intellectual pursuits.

Glen Taul

But by this time, well, by that time that comes around, you're married?

Janie Hill Polk

What, speech therapy? Yeah.

Glen Taul

Yeah. By the time you go to graduate school.

Janie Hill Polk

Yes.

Glen Taul

So you, you became--you had your wedding ceremony that end of your senior year?

Janie Hill Polk

No, there was a summer in there.

Glen Taul

Oh, okay.

Janie Hill Polk

A summ--and I went to Florida State in the summer.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Janie Hill Polk

--There were just a few schools in the country then offered speech, and so, I went to Florida State and would have stayed there, except that I got engaged that summer, came back and got married that fall.

Glen Taul

Oh, okay. I was--. Okay--was your wedding the first to be held in John L. Hill Chapel?

Janie Hill Polk

I'm sure not. I can't imagine that it was. No, surely not. '53, and it had been built in '49?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

No, it couldn't be. But, it was a big deal. That wedding was a big deal.

Glen Taul

Big deal. And --itI imagine there was a lot of emotional attachment to it, just--not the fact of getting married, but that your dad was leaving soon after that.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, it was agony and ecstasy. Perfect juxtaposition, my wedding. And the parties that went on for six weeks beforehand. Sometimes three a day.

Glen Taul

My goodness.

Janie Hill Polk

Were a tribute to my parents. People in town gave parties, beautiful parties. And--hey, honey!

Lee Polk

Hello there.

Janie Hill Polk

That's gonna be on the tape. [laughter]

Glen Taul

I know!

Janie Hill Polk

That's fine! This is my husband, Lee Polk.

Glen Taul

Tape is running.

Janie Hill Polk

Glen Taul. You all know each other.

Glen Taul

We met the last time--.

Lee Polk

Yes, sir.

Glen Taul

--We were at your all's house.

Lee Polk

Yeah. You all keep talking.

Janie Hill Polk

Good, yes. Couldn't get in?

Lee Polk

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Alight.

Lee Polk

The rain feels good. [laughter]

Glen Taul

Was that car in your way?

Lee Polk

No, I ran into it moving it over, but [laughter].

Glen Taul

Oh, alright, okay. [laughter]

Lee Polk

Keep going.

Janie Hill Polk

Okay, so yeah. Those parties were a tribute to mother and daddy. Because daddy's resignation had been announced, and the last time that daddy spoke in the chapel, was at my wedding. And it was just, huge big attendance--full, the chapel was full. And so immediately after we got back from our honeymoon, mother and daddy were dismantling the house, getting ready to leave. So, I knew that that symbolized college, high school, elemenary, the last of that, all of those years. All--seeing what mother and daddy did, all of that and then something happened. It was time for daddy to move on. And my wedding was the climax and I knew that I couldn't ever go back.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Couldn't ever go back home.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

So, it was--it was wonderful and it was awful.

Glen Taul

I figured it might be very poignant.

Janie Hill Polk

Um-hmm. Daddy walked me down the aisle, and then Sam, who was a master--ordained minister by this time, said the opening words and then daddy--instead of just sitting around, just walked around as emeritus.

Glen Taul

Oh so, he performed--.

Janie Hill Polk

Yes--

Glen Taul

--Performed the ceremony.

Janie Hill Polk

--He performed the ceremony, he did.

Glen Taul

What was he dressed like? I mean--.

Janie Hill Polk

In a tux.

Glen Taul

He was in a tux?

Janie Hill Polk

I have the pictures. And I have that on tape, too. But, it is one of those old--big old tapes. You can have it--.

Glen Taul

A reel tape?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, you can have it. But you'd have to transpose it to something we could--.

Glen Taul

Yeah, we probably--I think it's possible if they've still got the machinery around, for a reel-to-reel, and then they could---maybe hook it up to a CD, I imagine.

Janie Hill Polk

That was---it's really big. And I married into a well-known family and a lot of their families gave parties too. So, wasn't all Georgetown.

Glen Taul

Was it a local family?

Janie Hill Polk

No, Lexington.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

Horse--in the horse industry, but also Baptist.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And so, a lot of Baptist stuff.

Glen Taul

Was that a big--now you and I--you grew up just in a generation before I did, about Baptist expectations of kids. Was that a big thing about you should marry a Baptist?

Janie Hill Polk

Um--hmm. A nice, Christian boy--Baptist who didn't dance or drink. And I think Dan did dance because he was-- a university fraternity. But he didn't like to and he wasn't very social. So, but his parents were staunch, his mother, particularly was [a] staunch Baptist.

Glen Taul

But you--I remember you telling me the story about, I think it was your future fiance that wanted to go dan--to a paternity party and your father decided to let you go ahead--.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, I think that was to--

Glen Taul

--And dance despite all the possible criticism.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right. Yeah, I grew up--anytime a boy would ask me for a date, you know, especially from out of Lexington, I mean out of Georgetown. I'd say, "thank you very much, but you know, I cannot dance, and I'm sure you want to take somebody who dance and I understand that, and that's okay." Then they'd have to decide whether they wanted to take me out or not.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

But, I always had to tell this thing. And so daddy, that year. I think we were seniors, and Danny--Dan asked me to go to the SA--senior dance with him--prom. And I said, "Dan, you know, I can't do that." And he said, "well, do you mind if I ask your daddy?" And I said, "well, of course not. But he has to say no." [laughter] And so, I remember him saying, "Dr. Hill, I'd like to take Janie with me--and we have friends and we'll have a nice evening." And I was just sitting there not paying any attention because I'm sure it was no.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And daddy said, "I am so tired of watching her not be able to go to things, because of this issue of dancing." And he said, "she may go and have a wonderful time." And of course then, I'm scared to death because all these people had been dancing classes all their lives.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Them going to dances all their lives. And here I am a senior--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--Going to my first dance. I have an innate sense of rhythm. So, I had no problem.

Glen Taul

All right.

Janie Hill Polk

But I was scared--I was really scared [laughter] Didn't know how to behave or. And so, I don't think that's not so tied to Christianity anymore, that issue of dancing. Maybe--.

Glen Taul

In general.

Janie Hill Polk

--It's in some places--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

But fortunately, we've evolved past that.

Glen Taul

Now, you were gonn mention something about the janitors?

Janie Hill Polk

No, maintenance men.

Glen Taul

Maintenance people.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, yes. --I figured it--looking back, I was raised a lot by the maintenance men on Georgetown. I mean, mother was really busy, and daddy was busy too. So I have a lot of time to entertain myself, which was to my benefit. So I'm out climbing trees and seeing whose on the campus and what's going on on the campus. And the people inevitably that I saw, were the maintenance poeple. And Mr. McFarland, Mr. Mack, was the superintendent of the maintenance crew. And nice, nice, nice, man. And he and these, as I recall, older men, who were maintenance men, became my friends. And I was always so glad to see them, and they were always so nice to me. And so they would say--they would pass it on through their grapevine, Miss Janie's out here, she's up in the maple tree. [laughter] And so, they--they would look up and they'd wave at me. And then there was a man named Dan, Black man, who ran the furnace.

Glen Taul

Oh, the heating plant?

Janie Hill Polk

The heating plant. And he was as Black as the coal, literally, and strong, robust man. And I used to go down there because they had a cat.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Janie Hill Polk

And I loved animals, so I'd go down, wander down, and Dan was always so nice to me. Had the whitest teeth and the blackest skin.

Glen Taul

Oh my.

Janie Hill Polk

And he was always so glad--he made me feel like he was glad to see me.

Glen Taul

Did he?

Janie Hill Polk

And I was really glad to see him. So--when we got married, the maintenance people took up a collection and brought me a gift.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Janie Hill Polk

All of them came over hats, in their hands.

Glen Taul

Oh, my goodness.

Janie Hill Polk

They had brought me a lovely wedding gift. And this furniture that they bought in the basement of Purcell's which had unpainted furniture, [laughter] and they bought it--they bought it and finished it.

Glen Taul

That is cool.

Janie Hill Polk

Put stains on it. We still had some of it.

Glen Taul

Oh, good.

Janie Hill Polk

And it's just there, and l forget will that. Never, obviously, that's a long time ago.

Glen Taul

Yeah. No, that's very important. No, that's cool.

Janie Hill Polk

The only other thing that I care coming on at all is that, when we moved to Georgetown, and I was in the sixth grade, I had a hard time being accepted by my classroom. Because I was the president's daughter. And the presidents had not fared well at Georgetown. So they thought--what would they think. Here was the daughter of a Baptist preacher?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Of college that's not doing very well.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

I don't know what they thought. But it took me a lot of years to get accepted by them. And when I go back to reunions at Garth High School--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--I'm so aware that they had a life that I was in on, since I couldn't dance.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

I wasn't all the way in, but I was a cheerlader, and in plays and was in debate and was in the pep club and was in all those things.

Glen Taul

Yeah

Janie Hill Polk

But, they had a life---and so--and they didn't get to know the college life.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

That I've just spent this time talking to you about.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

So, I know things that they don't know--.

Glen Taul

Don't know.

Janie Hill Polk

--And they know things that I don't know. I found that interesting.

Glen Taul

Yeah. There's that wall there, so to speak. Goodness---

Janie Hill Polk

It was a wonderful---I really think it was a wonderful way in which to grow up and I have enormous respect for my father. And what he did for Georgetown and for my mother, and the way in which she played a perfect supporting role. I have enormous respect for them and I take great pride in where the college is today.

Glen Taul

So, they sounded more like a team?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, yes.

Glen Taul

In what they were doing.

Janie Hill Polk

They were very, very close.

Glen Taul

You think your parents were--considered themselves equals with each other?

Janie Hill Polk

No.

Glen Taul

Or was there a gender--?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah--

Glen Taul

Division--.

Janie Hill Polk

Daddy, was the Godfather, well and he's twenty years older.

Glen Taul

Right.

Janie Hill Polk

He was absolutely everything. And I didn't know what would happen to my mother when he died at 70 and she was 50. And she just really developed and did one beautiful job with the last part of her life. Matured and came into her own and she was as happy, finally, she was as happy as she had been with him. Took a lot of time but--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

---She was so. Saw that happen.

Glen Taul

Well, I think that does it.

Janie Hill Polk

Well, it should [laughter] I mean, this is a lot of stuff.

Glen Taul

It is. Well--you've got so much to offer. [tape cuts off]