Glen Taul
1:00This is an unrehearsed interview with Janie Hill Polk, by Glen Taul. The
interview took place at the home a Clif Hagan, at 3637 Hidden Pond (??) Road, in Lexington, Kentucky on November 19th, 2001. It is funded in part by a grant from the Kentucky Oral History Commission. This is the second of two tapes. [pause in tape]Glen Taul
2:00Okay, all right. And you were talking--continuing about the song fest.
Janie Hill Polk
3:00Yeah, campus sing. So we would win that. And that was a great experience and
hearing--you very clearly saw--identified it before you on the stage of the chapel, who was a member of what. And you heard them sing and you saw effort. You saw ability. You saw team spirit, and it was very important to win that. And again, everybody was in the chapel. This was not some divided thing.Glen Taul
4:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
5:00We were all there watching each other. So, identity was certainly formed. There then--.
Glen Taul
6:00Was it a competition, by any chance?
Janie Hill Polk
7:00Um-hmm.
Glen Taul
8:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
9:00Oh, surely.
Glen Taul
10:00Just like it is today.
Janie Hill Polk
11:00Yeah, well, I don't know what it's like today.
Glen Taul
12:00Yeah, it's a competition today.
Janie Hill Polk
13:00Sure.
Glen Taul
14:00Except it's--not all the performers are in the chapel. And they're all in the
cafeteria, getting ready, getting dressed. And at the performance today is--they can do dances and plays or whatever, or yours sounds like it was more--.Janie Hill Polk
15:00Sing, that was a song.
Glen Taul
16:00Just a song. And you were dressed up very formally.
Janie Hill Polk
17:00Yeah, it would certainly be modeled after what a choir was like.
Glen Taul
18:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
19:00After what the chapel choir was like. Chapel choir was wonderful. We traveled
all over everywhere. Some of our fondest memories are of chapel choir.Glen Taul
20:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
21:00But when---when a girl was pinned, received a fraternity of a boy. Then there
was a formal pinning ceremony.Glen Taul
22:00Oh!
Janie Hill Polk
23:00Which means that the girl and boy stand on the porch of the sorority house, and
the fraternity brothers all come and he pins her formally. And then, the fraternity sings a song like, "KA Rose" or "The Kappa Alpha Rose," or the--"Pi Kappa Alpha Sweetheart," something.Glen Taul
24:00So--it would be the song of the fraternity.
Janie Hill Polk
25:00That's right.
Glen Taul
26:00The theme song of the fraternity.
Janie Hill Polk
27:00That's right. Well, whatever had to do with love.
Glen Taul
28:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
29:00And it just, my heavens. It just made you want to be pinned so bad. [laughter]
This was so seductive. It was really romantic and wonderful. I think there may have been an exchange of flowers. I don't know if that's in my mind that you got a bouquet, I don't know. But then often, we'd sing back to them.Glen Taul
30:00Really? Huh. Now, this was just basically a public recognition of--this woman
and man, we're gonna go pub--dating?Janie Hill Polk
31:00No, pinned, pinned meant--it was pre-engagement.
Glen Taul
32:00Oh, it was pre--okay.
Janie Hill Polk
33:00And most people who were pinned got married.
Glen Taul
34:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
35:00And if somebody gave the pin back, that was big news.
Glen Taul
36:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
37:00Because it was serious--pinning was serious.
Glen Taul
38:00Okay. Now, the women didn't do the same with--with the--?
Janie Hill Polk
39:00No, I couldn't even imagine. I can't imagine a girl pinning a boy. Can't imagine.
Glen Taul
40:00At that time?
Janie Hill Polk
41:00No, no. [laughter] Can't imagine it.
Glen Taul
42:00I don't know if they would do it today or not.
Janie Hill Polk
43:00I don't think so either. And sometime, there would be serenades sometimes
sororities and fraternities would walk around and serenade.Glen Taul
44:00And this would involve Christmas?
Janie Hill Polk
45:00Well--yes
Glen Taul
46:00It involved--.
Janie Hill Polk
47:00Yes.
Glen Taul
48:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
49:00Probably. Probably. Serenades were marvelous. We just loved serenades. You'd
practice for a serenade like you did campus sing. And again, look at what it's doing, it's the unit.Glen Taul
50:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
51:00They're doing something, together.
Glen Taul
52:00Now, did the independents do this too?
Janie Hill Polk
53:00I believe they did. They--the independents never had as strong an organization,
because they were not mirrored (??) to all the national.Glen Taul
54:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
55:00With all the ranks.
Glen Taul
56:00Well--they weren't actively recruited.
Janie Hill Polk
57:00That's correct. That's correct.
Glen Taul
58:00They were just there.
Janie Hill Polk
59:00That's correct.
Glen Taul
60:00--Cause they were--.
Janie Hill Polk
61:00That's correct.
Glen Taul
62:00--Assinged there.
Janie Hill Polk
63:00That's correct, it wasn't selective, yes.
Glen Taul
64:00So that would be--.
Janie Hill Polk
65:00That's right.
Glen Taul
66:00--The difference.
Janie Hill Polk
67:00That's right.
Glen Taul
68:00I mean, the only---when you were going there, and the only dorms there were
Rucker, for women and Pawling for men. I don't believe there was another men's dorm, was there?Janie Hill Polk
69:00I don't think so. Calhoun Hall was there for women. It was two houses joined together.
Glen Taul
70:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
71:00And how many could live there? Probably eight bedrooms, with two in each,
side-by-side. And there was some independent halls and houses where independents lived, guys--independent guys--.Glen Taul
72:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
73:00---Lived, over on Main Street.
Glen Taul
74:00Oh, on Main Street?
Janie Hill Polk
75:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
76:00Okay. Didn't realize, where about--?
Janie Hill Polk
77:00See--when--when the war was over, the campus was just flooded with veterans. And
so, they had to have houses--the college bought houses and put students up in houses.Glen Taul
78:00Ken Fendley says that he remembers--of course they brought in barrack--old
barracks that the army was surplusing.Janie Hill Polk
79:00Right.
Glen Taul
80:00--And they didn't have any amenities at all. In fact they all--.
Janie Hill Polk
81:00That's right. In fact, the bookstore was in a quonset hut.
Glen Taul
82:00And was the cafeteria also?
Janie Hill Polk
83:00The cafeteria, no. The cafeteria was always in Rucker Hall.
Glen Taul
84:00Now did you as a--when you stayed in the sorority, did the sorority had their
own meals and--?Janie Hill Polk
85:00No, no--at the only cafeteria there was.
Glen Taul
86:00Was in Rucker.
Janie Hill Polk
87:00Was in Rucker and then there were--what could you get? Seems like in the
bookstore you could get something, candy bars, maybe pubs (??), something.Glen Taul
88:00Snacky-type things?
Janie Hill Polk
89:00Maybe, yeah, but I mean it was it. Look--look at what this does. You have
chapel, compulsory attendance at chapel. You have one cafeteria, you have all these events in which the whole campus space visible to you. --We really were identified--Glen Taul
90:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
91:00--As a student body.
Glen Taul
92:00Well, would you call it a community?
Janie Hill Polk
93:00Um-hmm. I certainly would and it's there today. When I was over for homecoming,
and went to the Sigma Kappa house, they--it was absolutely marvelous. All the houses, I mean, if I'd walked across the campus spotting the trees I'd climbed. As I walked across the campus, is that noise that the--joyful laughter, everything that was coming from the houses and then walking down--wat do you call that, a quadrangle?Glen Taul
94:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
95:00Walking down there. There was people milling about, it was like a movie. Really
was like a movie.Glen Taul
96:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
97:00Nice-looking people on beautiful fall day at this campus, and happiness and joy
and all that. It--and then they, what do they have when they go out and sing in the quadrangle? It's your turn--for the sing-around?Glen Taul
98:00You know, I'm not familiar with that.
Janie Hill Polk
99:00Well, I'd like for you to see it. But they--.
Glen Taul
100:00Oh, you mean the Sigmas?
Janie Hill Polk
101:00All--they took turns, you had your turn.
Glen Taul
102:00Oh, I see. I think I got to homecoming, I got in on--one of the sororities doing it.
Janie Hill Polk
103:00And so when it was your turn, and I had to leave because I had and appointment
back here and I couldn't stay and I was just so disappointed about that. But, I had to leave just--as it was occurring. And they would clap their hands.[clapping hands].Glen Taul
104:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
105:00Walk out into the center that quadrangle and sing.
Glen Taul
106:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
107:00And I'd like to go to one of those sometime, because, that's--these young people
will carry that with them the rest of their lives.Glen Taul
108:00Now, what was involved in initiation?
Janie Hill Polk
109:00Oh, you had to pass some kind of test. You had to know history of the sorority
and what the philanthropy was of this sorority. Ours was the Maine Sea Coast Mission, and it's still supported by monies from Sigma Kappa chapters all over the country. You had to know who the officers were of the national sorority. You had to know a bunch of things. And so after you passed your test, and your grades were okay, and you were passed on to be initiated, then the secret--the initiation is, of course, secret. And it was all this ceremony about it. And I told, told--the three other women who, who were in Sigma when I was and we had a reunion this fall, which was just so full of wonderful friendship. And I said, I'd like to see the initiation--read it now." Because it was based on mythology.Glen Taul
110:00Oh, it was?
Janie Hill Polk
111:00I'm sure. And it's secret, you know. So, once you are initiated, you and the
other initiants, other actives in the sorority, know something that nobody else does. And this again, brings you together as a group. You have your secret handshake and your secret this and that and the other.Glen Taul
112:00What was can you describe sort of, without giving away any secrets, the--sort of
the ceremony?Janie Hill Polk
113:00No, I don't think so. --The President was in a white, white robe of some kind
and read you something, read something and you pledged something. And I guess it's eternal loyalty. [laughter] I don't know what it is we pledged, but then, it was--it was really special. Then they have banquet afterwards, and you had a big sister, she gave you something and got your pin. It was--it was marvelous.Glen Taul
114:00Was there any hazing involved?
Janie Hill Polk
115:00A little bit, not much. They were they--a little bit tough on us. The
fraternities, that was another thing.Glen Taul
116:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
117:00But, I remember that when I was a freshman and going through pledging, we tried
to play tricks and jokes on the active, and not let them know who did it. So, I had several friends who came to our house---the president's house [laughter] and we made Toll House cookies and put Ex-lax [type of laxative] in them.Glen Taul
118:00Oh, you mean that actually was done?
Janie Hill Polk
119:00Yeah, we did.
Glen Taul
120:00Oh, my gosh.
Janie Hill Polk
121:00We did it. You still know what Ex-lax is?
Glen Taul
122:00Yes, oh, I do.
Janie Hill Polk
123:00Yes. And so, my brother was attending the Louisville--The Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary in Louisville--.Glen Taul
124:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
125:00--At the time. He took the package of cookies to Louisville and mailed them
there so they'd have a Louisville--.Glen Taul
126:00Oh, he was in on the game.
Janie Hill Polk
127:00And we mailed them to a particular active, who we wanted to play a joke on. So
then, of course, we were just curious as to what was going on, did the actives get them? [laughter] And you had to act like you didn't know anything about it.Glen Taul
128:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
129:00You know, and so forth. So, we heard that a couple of the girls missed classes
and that things were really going along smoothly at the Sigma Kappa house. We heard all that kind of stuff, and then, all pledges--that the presence of all pledges was required at the Sigma Kappa house, at some evening. And so, the actives were really stern, and they brought us in and we stood in a circle, and it was told that somebody in our midst, in our pledge class had dreamed up a scheme, which was horrible and harmful, and that we had to pay the consequences. And so, we were given a choice as to whether we wanted--.Glen Taul
130:00This is an old trick.
Janie Hill Polk
131:00We were given our choice as to whether we wanted cod liver oil, or Philips milk
of magnesia. And they went--and around the room with bottles of each and every pledge had to take this. And I remember that and I don't remember suffering any dire consequences of that, but it got around the campus, big time. And--that--they--nobody ever directly accuse me of it, but it was suspected.Glen Taul
132:00Suspected.
Janie Hill Polk
133:00Oh, yeah (??).
Glen Taul
134:00So which one did you take?
Janie Hill Polk
135:00Milk of magnesia.
Glen Taul
136:00[laughs] It was still chalky then?
Janie Hill Polk
137:00Yes, oh, it was horrible.
Glen Taul
138:00It was--.
Janie Hill Polk
139:00It was horrible.
Glen Taul
140:00But not as bad as cod liver oil?
Janie Hill Polk
141:00I guess. [laughter] I was familiar with milk of magnesia. [laughter] Sometimes
hazing, they tried to make you scared. And we had to put our hands in and feel things and they had peeled a bunch of grapes.Glen Taul
142:00Yeah that's--.
Janie Hill Polk
143:00And they called them eyeballs.
Glen Taul
144:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
145:00And then, cold spaghetti was probably worms.
Glen Taul
146:00Guts. Or guts.
Janie Hill Polk
147:00Guts, yeah.
Glen Taul
148:00With spaghetti sauce.
Janie Hill Polk
149:00Yeah. I Remember that--that's all I remember. But--.
Glen Taul
150:00Well, that's kind of--.
Janie Hill Polk
151:00--You were scared you were gonna be scared and scared that you didn't--you
weren't gonna act right.Glen Taul
152:00Did they treat you like--I've seen some fraternities treat their pledges this
way. They'd just treat you like you were dirt. Like some--Janie Hill Polk
153:00No, not--like dirt, but you certainly were not a first-class citizen.
Glen Taul
154:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
155:00You were a pledge, and you had to prove it in order to be an active. You had to
jump through these hoops in order to be an active and you wanted to be inactive. So.Glen Taul
156:00Very interesting.
Janie Hill Polk
157:00Yeah, I guess. I wonder what they do now. [laughter]
Glen Taul
158:00--I just have--suspect that they're a little bit more aggressive.
Janie Hill Polk
159:00Do you--
Glen Taul
160:00I think--.
Janie Hill Polk
161:00--I would it think would fade out?
Glen Taul
162:00Just--.
Janie Hill Polk
163:00I can't imagine--
Glen Taul
164:00--Just given--
Janie Hill Polk
165:00--Anybody doing that kind of stuff, now.
Glen Taul
166:00Just given the tenor--no, maybe not the sorority so much.
Janie Hill Polk
167:00No, I don't think.
Glen Taul
168:00I would think.
Janie Hill Polk
169:00--Let's hope so.
Glen Taul
170:00--I spok to some of the freshmen over at Georgetown and--well at least in the
new sorority that they have over there, and it didn't seem like it's that bad.Janie Hill Polk
171:00I Just can't imagine that. That--that's so childish. Oh, that's so sophomoric.
Glen Taul
172:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
173:00It, [laughs] just is, but that was what we did.
Glen Taul
174:00What do you remember about your first year at college?
Janie Hill Polk
175:00Oh, it was finally there.
Glen Taul
176:00The classes--.
Janie Hill Polk
177:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
178:00--And some of the professors.
Janie Hill Polk
179:00Oh, the professorsd, yeah. Dr. Coleman Arnold was just an idol of mine. He was
absolutely fine, English was his field. And he made everything come alive, and I adored him. I remember that--I took---I went to summer school and took English, just after I graduated from high school. Because I knew it was really time consuming. English was writing all the themes and things and I wanted to get out of the way, so I could play. I was a cheerleader and all that. So, I took English in summer school and under Dr. Arnold. And we had to write, since it was only six weeks course--.Glen Taul
180:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
181:00--We did a whole semester in six weeks.
Glen Taul
182:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
183:00And I had to write a theme a day. And that was good discipline. And I've
got---still got some of them. Some unsophisticated, but tales of things I was doing. I was just--.Glen Taul
184:00So like, these were personal experiences. And they were like several page--and just--.
Janie Hill Polk
185:00There would be two pages.
Glen Taul
186:00Two pages?
Janie Hill Polk
187:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
188:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
189:00And you were graded grammar and spelling and punctuation and--.
Glen Taul
190:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
191:00All that.
Glen Taul
192:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
193:00It was a real--.
Glen Taul
194:00How about handwriting?
Janie Hill Polk
195:00I don't remember that. I'm left handed, but--my handwriting was pretty good.
Glen Taul
196:00Now did students--did any of the students--typewriters would have been fairly
prevalent back then. Did students have typewriters?Janie Hill Polk
197:00I think some did. I remember not doing well in typing in high school. Because
you'd have to imagine this, now in the day of computer.Glen Taul
198:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
199:00Imagine, you had to type a whole without making any mistakes.
Glen Taul
200:00I know.
Janie Hill Polk
201:00Can you do that?
Glen Taul
202:00No. [laughter]
Janie Hill Polk
203:00It's really--
Glen Taul
204:00But I took typing in--in high school too.
Janie Hill Polk
205:00I do too and--.
Glen Taul
206:00One semester.
Janie Hill Polk
207:00And then--years and years and years later, when I became computer literate, I
remembered the keyboard, from a high school class.Glen Taul
208:00Me too, it's like riding a bicycle.
Janie Hill Polk
209:00Is that wonderful?
Glen Taul
210:00It is.
Janie Hill Polk
211:00That the brain will retain that.
Glen Taul
212:00Yeah, and then there's other things to the brain won't retain.
Janie Hill Polk
213:00That's, oh, we know that--we know that. [laughter] We could talk a long time
about that. Well, some people could type and I never did learn to tipe, never did use it, and I did not use it.Glen Taul
214:00What's another professor you remember?
Janie Hill Polk
215:00Mrs. Melzer (??) was the speech teacher, and she was good. And Ms. Calhoun, I
was at the very end of Ms. Calhoun's time. She was Dean of Women and was good speech and drama. And I had one or two classes under her. She was really tough, really good and really tough.Glen Taul
216:00Now, what--when you say tough, what do you?
Janie Hill Polk
217:00Oh, her standards were just very high and you had to comply exactly with what
she wanted or you were out. Ms. Munson (??) was the French teacher.Glen Taul
218:00I remember her.
Janie Hill Polk
219:00Excellent, excellent--excellent teacher.
Glen Taul
220:00What was their personalities like?
Janie Hill Polk
221:00Their personalities?
Glen Taul
222:00In teaching.
Janie Hill Polk
223:00Lecture, they lectured using their own personal styles. We knew who they were,
they knew who we were. They knew everybody's name. We knew who they were, they had reputations. Dr. Weldon (??), have you heard of him? Taught psychology, he was a joke. And you could just pull any wool in the world you wanted to over his eyes. And he--said "Dr. Weldon, I didn't have time to study because I was talking with one of my friends last night, whose in terrible trouble. And I figured you'd rather that I spend time talking with her than studying." And he believed it.Glen Taul
224:00Oh my!
Janie Hill Polk
225:00And he'd give you a grade anyway. Now in retrospect was he--were we losers?
It--did he know, and he just did it anyway or what? But, I mean you could get by with stuff with him. Dr. Daliey(??) was my Bible professor.Glen Taul
226:00C.R. Dailey?
Janie Hill Polk
227:00Um-hmm.
Glen Taul
228:00Now, what was he like as a teacher?
Janie Hill Polk
229:00Outstanding. Interesting. Good lecturer. Interesting--had a grasp--good grasp of
the material. Excellent.Glen Taul
230:00How did you respond to lecturing as a way of learning?
Janie Hill Polk
231:00Well of course, you were supposed to do it. You see, we were not the questioning generation.
Glen Taul
232:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
233:00It was presented to you and you are took notes, and you studied, and you did
what they told you to do. And then you regurgitated it. I do not remember being challenged to think independently.Glen Taul
234:00Okay. So, there was no back and forth discussion?
Janie Hill Polk
235:00There--not much. If there was, there may have been questions, but I can't
remember any kind of intellectual inquiries or questioning your professor. Maybe I wasn't in the classes that did that. I had to take chemistry, and the only reason passed it was, I was going with a guy, who is now a doctor, who was excellent at it. And he got me through it. I was terrible at it, just terrible. I think Dr. Wilson was our teacher Doc Wilson, and he was not a very good teacher. And I was a terrible, terrible chemistry student.Glen Taul
236:00Yeah. Now why was he terrible? I mean what--was it his methods or?
Janie Hill Polk
237:00Yeah, I just don't think his standards were high, slovenly. Think about it, who
would stay on at Georgetown in those years, when the salaries were so very low, when this was not an academically respected yet institution. Who are gonna be your professors? Dedicated Christians, people who lived in the area.Glen Taul
238:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
239:00People who are graduates of Georgetown, active in the Baptist Church. That's who
your professors were.Glen Taul
240:00Well, we know that all of them can't be highest--high quality.
Janie Hill Polk
241:00No, that's correct.
Glen Taul
242:00I mean--.
Janie Hill Polk
243:00That's correct.
Glen Taul
244:00Dr. Arnold was a Georgetown graduate, and he's well-respected.
Janie Hill Polk
245:00Um-hmm.
Glen Taul
246:00You said--.
Janie Hill Polk
247:00Doctor.
Glen Taul
248:00Mrs. Calhoun.
Janie Hill Polk
249:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
250:00Or Ms. Calhoun.
Janie Hill Polk
251:00Yeah, she was--.
Glen Taul
252:00--Was a Georgetown graduate.
Janie Hill Polk
253:00Yes.
Glen Taul
254:00Higly-respected.
Janie Hill Polk
255:00That's right.
Glen Taul
256:00And Ms. Munson was a Georgetown graduate there for years. Now, I had Ms. Munson
for French.Janie Hill Polk
257:00Oh, did you?
Glen Taul
258:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
259:00What did you think of her style?
Glen Taul
260:00I [chuckles] got tickled at her. Well, she reminded me of an old maid.
Janie Hill Polk
261:00Yeah, that's what she was. [laughter] An angry (??) lady.
Glen Taul
262:00but she was very, yeah, yu're right. She was very strict and she did take a
particular interest in her students and sometimes. Of course I've heard--.Janie Hill Polk
263:00Well, she would say to me, "you can do better than you're doing and I want to
see you do it." How could you get something like that in a university or a large one.Glen Taul
264:00Did she take a personal interest in your personal life? I've heard stories about
her taking interest in some--.Janie Hill Polk
265:00No.
Glen Taul
266:00--Of her students personal lives--.
Janie Hill Polk
267:00No. Yeah. No. She did--Jonie Welch Tauley (??) Who later became---went Fulbright
went to The Sorbonne.Glen Taul
268:00Oh.
Janie Hill Polk
269:00And was a guide at the United Nations using French.
Glen Taul
270:00Oh.
Janie Hill Polk
271:00Yeah. Of course, of course she was--.
Glen Taul
272:00She was always--I can remember her always recruiting people. She--she's always
telling somebody, "now--there's I got a call from high school the other day, and they're looking for French teachers." She was telling somebody. And--.Janie Hill Polk
273:00She played a big role in their lives, and now you can look at it and think, we
played a big role in her's too.Glen Taul
274:00Well, and we've got some of her personal effects at the college.
Janie Hill Polk
275:00Do you really?
Glen Taul
276:00And her scrapbook, and I was just, she played basketball--.
Janie Hill Polk
277:00Is that right?
Glen Taul
278:00--At her high school.
Janie Hill Polk
279:00Wonder why she never married, it's quite alright that she never married, but
that she didn't. Because she was--she had all the skills, you would think, necessary for a partnership like that?Glen Taul
280:00Yeah, I don't know. But, she's an interesting--and I never knew Ms. Calhoun very well.
Janie Hill Polk
281:00Well, she was your quintessential maiden lady. But, a fine actress and highly
respected. Rena Calhoun.Glen Taul
282:00Rena Calhoun. And I know the hall was named her.
Janie Hill Polk
283:00That's correct. That's correct. And they just gave their lives to the college.
Glen Taul
284:00Now, did you ever have Dr. [Horace] Hambrick for a teacher?
Janie Hill Polk
285:00No, no, he was Sam--he was my brother's contemporary.
Glen Taul
286:00Well, I know--but he started teaching at Georgetown in 1950, '51.
Janie Hill Polk
287:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
288:00Who did you have for history, Dr. Fields?
Janie Hill Polk
289:00I'd have to do some searching on that.
Glen Taul
290:00But, it doesn't come to mind just like that though?
Janie Hill Polk
291:00History of Civilization--I took Hiistory of Ciivilization. Who was the teacher?
I didn't like it, it bored me to death? I can't recall. I cannot recall.Glen Taul
292:00So--what attracted your--I mean, what kind of lecture got your interest? How
did--if someone was bringing the subject alive?Janie Hill Polk
293:00Well, I think--I think I've always like order and logic--a lot--presented in an
attractive way. Let's see, Ms. Munson was so orderly, and you knew where you were starting. You knew where you were headed. And those kind of boundaries, I liked very much. And then she presented things very clearly. And told you what to practice and what to do and did it. So she got to me, and Dr. Arnold loved the English authors, loved the English language. He made those people come alive, and his pants would almost fall off every lecture period. They would slip down and down and down, and you were just holding your breath [laughter]. They were gonna fall off. Then just about when they were at a point of not to be retrieved, he would pull up his pant, stick in his shirt, and then you'd start the whole process all over. [laughter] Pants--they were--. But he-- and if he realized that, he would blush. But he knew, knew those authors and we just loved English Lit. I just adored English Lit. Because, he made those people come alive. And he would read their poetry, or have us read their essays or poetry and it was alive, the stories. Dr. Dailey did a very good job with the Bible, along that same line.Glen Taul
294:00Did you all have to--how many hour--credit hours did you have to have of the
Bible to graduate?Janie Hill Polk
295:00I don't know--three--six--six maybe.
Glen Taul
296:00Probably six?
Janie Hill Polk
297:00Yeah.
Glen Taul
298:00And so, you took both of yours from Dr. Dailey. Did you take it Old or New
Testament or was it?Janie Hill Polk
299:00Old.
Glen Taul
300:00It was old. I had Joe Lewis and I took both of them old. Didn't know too much
about that, less about that than I did the--.Janie Hill Polk
301:00--The New Testament--.
Glen Taul
302:00Yes, it made sense to me (??)
Janie Hill Polk
303:00We've heard that, yeah. Choir was a big thing with Dr. Dav-- [tape cuts off].
[Tape resumes] From the South or because he was a Presbyterian, of all things. Highly criticized, and Dr. Davis was an excellent musician and--let us, we had a really good chamber choir. Dr. Anders (??) was there, and he got into some kind of trouble. What kind of trobule was it? I don't know, some kind of trouble, and he didn't last long. But he was---he was good too. Dr. Bonowitz (??) was--.Glen Taul
304:00[Inaudible]
Janie Hill Polk
305:00Oh, when we got there in '42 and had Parkinson's, the kind--the stiff kind of
Parkinson, and he was bowled over and you'd think he was gonna fall when he walked. In his day, he must have been fine a musician.Glen Taul
306:00Huh.
Janie Hill Polk
307:00Fine. I just got in on the very end of him--very end of Dr. Jones. No classes, I
just remember him seeing go--.Glen Taul
308:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
309:00--As a little girl.
Glen Taul
310:00Yeah. Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
311:00--Going across the campus. Dr. Jones.
Glen Taul
312:00I've heard a lot about Dr. Jones.
Janie Hill Polk
313:00He was---he was apparently good, I never had him.
Glen Taul
314:00At one time, he was an interim president. I've forgot--between which presidents
he was, but he was an interim president at--at one time.Janie Hill Polk
315:00Dr. Judd (??) was the Dean toward--when I was in college. And he said to me at
the end of my sophomore year, "next semester, Janie, I want to see you on the Dean's list." And I said, "Dr. Judd, you've got me mixed up with my brother." [laughter] "He's the academic one." And he, said "I don't have you mixed up at all." He said, "I want to see you on the Dean's list." And that was a turning point. I thought, wouldn't that be something because Sam excelled so far in that area, I never saw myself as anything except less than he, in academics. And so, I had never even thought so seriously. Consideredmyself having much of an intellect. And when Dr. Judd said that, I thought, wouldn't that be something? And I was, I got on the Dean's list and stayed on it. But if hadn't said that to me.Glen Taul
316:00Now, was there a particular--when you were in college, expectation to be high
grades by your parents?Janie Hill Polk
317:00Well, I thought so.
Glen Taul
318:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
319:00I don't remember any pressure from them.
Glen Taul
320:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
321:00But, I thought I should be.
Glen Taul
322:00Was---
Janie Hill Polk
323:00After all I was--.
Glen Taul
324:00--Just for curiosity, like your first semester, did you Cs, or did you have a
good mixture of B's and A's and Cs or?Janie Hill Polk
325:00I was an average B student.
Glen Taul
326:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
327:00All the way through. I would certainly have a C, if it chemistry, or anything
math related?Glen Taul
328:00See, I had a difficult first semester. And I was barely lucky [chuckles] to get
enough Cs out there--in the first semester.Janie Hill Polk
329:00Was that because it was---the subjects were not.
Glen Taul
330:00Well, I don't know what it was. It's just the college experience was new, and
after that, I started picking up. I got maybe two C's the next semester.Janie Hill Polk
331:00Well, it--.
Glen Taul
332:00The rest of them were As and Bs.
Janie Hill Polk
333:00It--one of the things.
Glen Taul
334:00---That was including the week I spent in the hospital.
Janie Hill Polk
335:00Wow. Yeah, it it certainly is---developmentally, we need to learn to recognize
that we all learn in different ways. And for people whose memory is--is excellent and they can retain facts and absolutes, they do well in math, they do well in science, they do well, in remembering history dates. And then there are others of us who don't think in those absolute terms.Glen Taul
336:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
337:00And so, we can do well over there, but not over here and the science and math
and because science and math is so exalted, you get the idea that you're not very smart. And that's not true at all, it was--certainly was proven with you.Glen Taul
338:00Yeah. Do you remember any of your science teachers? You said--you didn't have
Dr. Weldon, I take it?Janie Hill Polk
339:00Dr. Weldon?
Glen Taul
340:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
341:00He was--.
Glen Taul
342:00---You had your--.
Janie Hill Polk
343:00--Psychology.
Glen Taul
344:00You had him and--.
Janie Hill Polk
345:00And--.
Glen Taul
346:00You had chemistry.
Janie Hill Polk
347:00That's it, how did I get by? I didn't take any math.
Glen Taul
348:00No biology.
Janie Hill Polk
349:00Yeah, Mary Wharton (??).
Glen Taul
350:00Oh, she was there then?
Janie Hill Polk
351:00Mary Wharton was good. She was dry, and because we'd had discussions about her
at home, I knew she was wonderful. She had a wonderful spirit and minds and so forth. She was really, really dry.Glen Taul
352:00As a lecturer?
Janie Hill Polk
353:00Yeah, really dry. But I liked--.
Glen Taul
354:00Did you have labs?
Janie Hill Polk
355:00--I like the lab, when we started dissecting frogs and all that, I really liked
that. And I thought that was very interesting. I did okay in biology. Dr. Lindsay, what did he teach?Glen Taul
356:00He taught biology.
Janie Hill Polk
357:00Yeah, I had class under him in biology. So, there we have it. That's the way I
got rid of those science and math requirements. A semester chemistry, and then two or three of biology someplace Music, one of my minors was in music. And I would have--I had a double minor, I would have done well, except math came into theory, music theory. When the third--when the third goes up a half, a fourth goes down a third. I mean, there's all these equations--.Glen Taul
358:00Oh, yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
359:00--In music. And I couldn't do it.
Glen Taul
360:00To me, you know, I would probably have to play intuitively, rather than mathematically.
Janie Hill Polk
361:00But--and you could play. You could come out with it playing just beautifully.
But in order to take the--in order to have a minor or a major in music, you had to go through theory of music and know all those formulas and equations.Glen Taul
362:00What was your major?
Janie Hill Polk
363:00Speech.
Glen Taul
364:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
365:00[clears throat] And we had to give a speech recital, very much as musicians,
give a music recital, we gave a speech recital. And again, I had gone to recitals from the time I was in the sixth grade and on. Because mother and daddy couldn't leave me at home by myself and they'd take me with them, to all these things. So, I had seen recitals, heard recitals forever. I enjoyed my singing recitals.Glen Taul
366:00That sounds like a holdover from earlier Georgetown days, when oratory contests
were the main attraction on campus. Before--.Janie Hill Polk
367:00Probably so.
Glen Taul
368:00--Athletics came into their own.
Janie Hill Polk
369:00--Probably so.
Glen Taul
370:00So, what were the--what were those recitals like?
Janie Hill Polk
371:00Oh, you quoted or read poetry or essays of your choice. And you--how you
presented them. how you read them. We were supposed to be the accomplished one in this. And then, you had your piece that you did and I wrote mine. And it was on Horace Hambrick's grandmother, Mrs. Thomas.Glen Taul
372:00Oh.
Janie Hill Polk
373:00And went and interviewed her--.
Glen Taul
374:00Ah.
Janie Hill Polk
375:00--At length on what Georgetown was like in her day.
Glen Taul
376:00Oh, that would have ben cool.
Janie Hill Polk
377:00It was cool. It was--it was--.
Glen Taul
378:00You still have it?
Janie Hill Polk
379:00I think I do--I think I do.
Glen Taul
380:00If you ever find it, I'd like to have a copy of it.
Janie Hill Polk
381:00Alright. Well, it was received well--.
Glen Taul
382:00Now--.
Janie Hill Polk
383:00And so, I was gonna be a speech teacher. And in my senior--second semester of my
senior year, I came across in some research project, I was doing, the word speech therapy. It's the first time I ever heard it, and this is one or two or three times in my life that I've known something immediately. I saw the word speech and therapy put together.Glen Taul
384:00Oh, yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
385:00And I thought, I have to do that. So I did. And I had to go to graduate school
and do all that then. You see, and I didn't intend for my life to go in that direction. [laughter] But I like--I like intellectual pursuits.Glen Taul
386:00But by this time, well, by that time that comes around, you're married?
Janie Hill Polk
387:00What, speech therapy? Yeah.
Glen Taul
388:00Yeah. By the time you go to graduate school.
Janie Hill Polk
389:00Yes.
Glen Taul
390:00So you, you became--you had your wedding ceremony that end of your senior year?
Janie Hill Polk
391:00No, there was a summer in there.
Glen Taul
392:00Oh, okay.
Janie Hill Polk
393:00A summ--and I went to Florida State in the summer.
Glen Taul
394:00Oh.
Janie Hill Polk
395:00--There were just a few schools in the country then offered speech, and so, I
went to Florida State and would have stayed there, except that I got engaged that summer, came back and got married that fall.Glen Taul
396:00Oh, okay. I was--. Okay--was your wedding the first to be held in John L. Hill Chapel?
Janie Hill Polk
397:00I'm sure not. I can't imagine that it was. No, surely not. '53, and it had been
built in '49?Glen Taul
398:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
399:00No, it couldn't be. But, it was a big deal. That wedding was a big deal.
Glen Taul
400:00Big deal. And --itI imagine there was a lot of emotional attachment to it,
just--not the fact of getting married, but that your dad was leaving soon after that.Janie Hill Polk
401:00Yeah, it was agony and ecstasy. Perfect juxtaposition, my wedding. And the
parties that went on for six weeks beforehand. Sometimes three a day.Glen Taul
402:00My goodness.
Janie Hill Polk
403:00Were a tribute to my parents. People in town gave parties, beautiful parties.
And--hey, honey!Lee Polk
404:00Hello there.
Janie Hill Polk
405:00That's gonna be on the tape. [laughter]
Glen Taul
406:00I know!
Janie Hill Polk
407:00That's fine! This is my husband, Lee Polk.
Glen Taul
408:00Tape is running.
Janie Hill Polk
409:00Glen Taul. You all know each other.
Glen Taul
410:00We met the last time--.
Lee Polk
411:00Yes, sir.
Glen Taul
412:00--We were at your all's house.
Lee Polk
413:00Yeah. You all keep talking.
Janie Hill Polk
414:00Good, yes. Couldn't get in?
Lee Polk
415:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
416:00Alight.
Lee Polk
417:00The rain feels good. [laughter]
Glen Taul
418:00Was that car in your way?
Lee Polk
419:00No, I ran into it moving it over, but [laughter].
Glen Taul
420:00Oh, alright, okay. [laughter]
Lee Polk
421:00Keep going.
Janie Hill Polk
422:00Okay, so yeah. Those parties were a tribute to mother and daddy. Because daddy's
resignation had been announced, and the last time that daddy spoke in the chapel, was at my wedding. And it was just, huge big attendance--full, the chapel was full. And so immediately after we got back from our honeymoon, mother and daddy were dismantling the house, getting ready to leave. So, I knew that that symbolized college, high school, elemenary, the last of that, all of those years. All--seeing what mother and daddy did, all of that and then something happened. It was time for daddy to move on. And my wedding was the climax and I knew that I couldn't ever go back.Glen Taul
423:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
424:00Couldn't ever go back home.
Glen Taul
425:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
426:00So, it was--it was wonderful and it was awful.
Glen Taul
427:00I figured it might be very poignant.
Janie Hill Polk
428:00Um-hmm. Daddy walked me down the aisle, and then Sam, who was a master--ordained
minister by this time, said the opening words and then daddy--instead of just sitting around, just walked around as emeritus.Glen Taul
429:00Oh so, he performed--.
Janie Hill Polk
430:00Yes--
Glen Taul
431:00--Performed the ceremony.
Janie Hill Polk
432:00--He performed the ceremony, he did.
Glen Taul
433:00What was he dressed like? I mean--.
Janie Hill Polk
434:00In a tux.
Glen Taul
435:00He was in a tux?
Janie Hill Polk
436:00I have the pictures. And I have that on tape, too. But, it is one of those
old--big old tapes. You can have it--.Glen Taul
437:00A reel tape?
Janie Hill Polk
438:00Yeah, you can have it. But you'd have to transpose it to something we could--.
Glen Taul
439:00Yeah, we probably--I think it's possible if they've still got the machinery
around, for a reel-to-reel, and then they could---maybe hook it up to a CD, I imagine.Janie Hill Polk
440:00That was---it's really big. And I married into a well-known family and a lot of
their families gave parties too. So, wasn't all Georgetown.Glen Taul
441:00Was it a local family?
Janie Hill Polk
442:00No, Lexington.
Glen Taul
443:00Okay.
Janie Hill Polk
444:00Horse--in the horse industry, but also Baptist.
Glen Taul
445:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
446:00And so, a lot of Baptist stuff.
Glen Taul
447:00Was that a big--now you and I--you grew up just in a generation before I did,
about Baptist expectations of kids. Was that a big thing about you should marry a Baptist?Janie Hill Polk
448:00Um--hmm. A nice, Christian boy--Baptist who didn't dance or drink. And I think
Dan did dance because he was-- a university fraternity. But he didn't like to and he wasn't very social. So, but his parents were staunch, his mother, particularly was [a] staunch Baptist.Glen Taul
449:00But you--I remember you telling me the story about, I think it was your future
fiance that wanted to go dan--to a paternity party and your father decided to let you go ahead--.Janie Hill Polk
450:00Yeah, I think that was to--
Glen Taul
451:00--And dance despite all the possible criticism.
Janie Hill Polk
452:00That's right. Yeah, I grew up--anytime a boy would ask me for a date, you know,
especially from out of Lexington, I mean out of Georgetown. I'd say, "thank you very much, but you know, I cannot dance, and I'm sure you want to take somebody who dance and I understand that, and that's okay." Then they'd have to decide whether they wanted to take me out or not.Glen Taul
453:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
454:00But, I always had to tell this thing. And so daddy, that year. I think we were
seniors, and Danny--Dan asked me to go to the SA--senior dance with him--prom. And I said, "Dan, you know, I can't do that." And he said, "well, do you mind if I ask your daddy?" And I said, "well, of course not. But he has to say no." [laughter] And so, I remember him saying, "Dr. Hill, I'd like to take Janie with me--and we have friends and we'll have a nice evening." And I was just sitting there not paying any attention because I'm sure it was no.Glen Taul
455:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
456:00And daddy said, "I am so tired of watching her not be able to go to things,
because of this issue of dancing." And he said, "she may go and have a wonderful time." And of course then, I'm scared to death because all these people had been dancing classes all their lives.Glen Taul
457:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
458:00Them going to dances all their lives. And here I am a senior--.
Glen Taul
459:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
460:00--Going to my first dance. I have an innate sense of rhythm. So, I had no problem.
Glen Taul
461:00All right.
Janie Hill Polk
462:00But I was scared--I was really scared [laughter] Didn't know how to behave or.
And so, I don't think that's not so tied to Christianity anymore, that issue of dancing. Maybe--.Glen Taul
463:00In general.
Janie Hill Polk
464:00--It's in some places--
Glen Taul
465:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
466:00But fortunately, we've evolved past that.
Glen Taul
467:00Now, you were gonn mention something about the janitors?
Janie Hill Polk
468:00No, maintenance men.
Glen Taul
469:00Maintenance people.
Janie Hill Polk
470:00Oh, yes. --I figured it--looking back, I was raised a lot by the maintenance men
on Georgetown. I mean, mother was really busy, and daddy was busy too. So I have a lot of time to entertain myself, which was to my benefit. So I'm out climbing trees and seeing whose on the campus and what's going on on the campus. And the people inevitably that I saw, were the maintenance poeple. And Mr. McFarland, Mr. Mack, was the superintendent of the maintenance crew. And nice, nice, nice, man. And he and these, as I recall, older men, who were maintenance men, became my friends. And I was always so glad to see them, and they were always so nice to me. And so they would say--they would pass it on through their grapevine, Miss Janie's out here, she's up in the maple tree. [laughter] And so, they--they would look up and they'd wave at me. And then there was a man named Dan, Black man, who ran the furnace.Glen Taul
471:00Oh, the heating plant?
Janie Hill Polk
472:00The heating plant. And he was as Black as the coal, literally, and strong,
robust man. And I used to go down there because they had a cat.Glen Taul
473:00Oh!
Janie Hill Polk
474:00And I loved animals, so I'd go down, wander down, and Dan was always so nice to
me. Had the whitest teeth and the blackest skin.Glen Taul
475:00Oh my.
Janie Hill Polk
476:00And he was always so glad--he made me feel like he was glad to see me.
Glen Taul
477:00Did he?
Janie Hill Polk
478:00And I was really glad to see him. So--when we got married, the maintenance
people took up a collection and brought me a gift.Glen Taul
479:00Oh.
Janie Hill Polk
480:00All of them came over hats, in their hands.
Glen Taul
481:00Oh, my goodness.
Janie Hill Polk
482:00They had brought me a lovely wedding gift. And this furniture that they bought
in the basement of Purcell's which had unpainted furniture, [laughter] and they bought it--they bought it and finished it.Glen Taul
483:00That is cool.
Janie Hill Polk
484:00Put stains on it. We still had some of it.
Glen Taul
485:00Oh, good.
Janie Hill Polk
486:00And it's just there, and l forget will that. Never, obviously, that's a long
time ago.Glen Taul
487:00Yeah. No, that's very important. No, that's cool.
Janie Hill Polk
488:00The only other thing that I care coming on at all is that, when we moved to
Georgetown, and I was in the sixth grade, I had a hard time being accepted by my classroom. Because I was the president's daughter. And the presidents had not fared well at Georgetown. So they thought--what would they think. Here was the daughter of a Baptist preacher?Glen Taul
489:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
490:00Of college that's not doing very well.
Glen Taul
491:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
492:00I don't know what they thought. But it took me a lot of years to get accepted by
them. And when I go back to reunions at Garth High School--.Glen Taul
493:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
494:00--I'm so aware that they had a life that I was in on, since I couldn't dance.
Glen Taul
495:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
496:00I wasn't all the way in, but I was a cheerlader, and in plays and was in debate
and was in the pep club and was in all those things.Glen Taul
497:00Yeah
Janie Hill Polk
498:00But, they had a life---and so--and they didn't get to know the college life.
Glen Taul
499:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
500:00That I've just spent this time talking to you about.
Glen Taul
501:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
502:00So, I know things that they don't know--.
Glen Taul
503:00Don't know.
Janie Hill Polk
504:00--And they know things that I don't know. I found that interesting.
Glen Taul
505:00Yeah. There's that wall there, so to speak. Goodness---
Janie Hill Polk
506:00It was a wonderful---I really think it was a wonderful way in which to grow up
and I have enormous respect for my father. And what he did for Georgetown and for my mother, and the way in which she played a perfect supporting role. I have enormous respect for them and I take great pride in where the college is today.Glen Taul
507:00So, they sounded more like a team?
Janie Hill Polk
508:00Oh, yes.
Glen Taul
509:00In what they were doing.
Janie Hill Polk
510:00They were very, very close.
Glen Taul
511:00You think your parents were--considered themselves equals with each other?
Janie Hill Polk
512:00No.
Glen Taul
513:00Or was there a gender--?
Janie Hill Polk
514:00Yeah--
Glen Taul
515:00Division--.
Janie Hill Polk
516:00Daddy, was the Godfather, well and he's twenty years older.
Glen Taul
517:00Right.
Janie Hill Polk
518:00He was absolutely everything. And I didn't know what would happen to my mother
when he died at 70 and she was 50. And she just really developed and did one beautiful job with the last part of her life. Matured and came into her own and she was as happy, finally, she was as happy as she had been with him. Took a lot of time but--.Glen Taul
519:00Yeah.
Janie Hill Polk
520:00---She was so. Saw that happen.
Glen Taul
521:00Well, I think that does it.
Janie Hill Polk
522:00Well, it should [laughter] I mean, this is a lot of stuff.
Glen Taul
523:00It is. Well--you've got so much to offer. [tape cuts off]
524:00