Oral History Interview with Janie Hill Polk Part I

Janie Hill Polk

This is an unrehearsed interview with Janie Hill Polk, by Glen Taul. The interview took place at the home of Cliff Hagan, at 3637 Hidden Pond (??) Road in Lexington, Kentucky on November 19th, 2001. It is funded in part by a grant from the Kentucky Oral History Commission. This is the first of two tapes. --To the women's association.

Glen Taul

Oh, you are?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

Oh, okay.

Janie Hill Polk

So that---that will be another time. I will--I will have that written down and organized. And I suspect I'll have experience (??)

Glen Taul

First of all, tell me your name, just for the record. All

Janie Hill Polk

Aright, all of my names are Mary Jane Hill (??) Polk.

Glen Taul

Wow.

Janie Hill Polk

So I'm called--these days, I'm called Janie Polk. Now, when I was in Georgetown, from the time I was in the sixth grade on, I had dropped the Mary part of my name. And so, I was Janie all the way through high school and college.

Glen Taul

Oh, right.

Janie Hill Polk

And ever since. And so--Janie's--I still see people today who say, "well, Janie Hill." [laughter] And I love that, I love to hear that.

Glen Taul

Like they used to call my mother--our brothers would call her Mary R., she's named Mary Rachel. She didn't like it. [laughter] She doesn't like it to this day. How did your father come and how did you get the Georgetown?

Janie Hill Polk

Daddy was pastor of Deer Park Baptist Church in Louisville and we had a lovely home and the church was going very well. And a member of that church was our porter, whose roots at Georgetown are long. And it's possible that he was the chair of the trustees, I don't remember that. But, I do know he was on the board of the trustees in 1941 and '42, arond that era. And so what I first remember is seeing black cars come down our long driveway and park in front of our house. And my brother and I were summarily dismissed to other parts of the house and daddy sat in the living room with men. And I remember hearing men's voices. And so then, somewhere after that, it was introduced to us that Daddy was being interviewed for the presidency of Georgetown. And a story that I think it's significant, very significant is Georgetown was in one of its very difficult times. The student body was very small. There was a lot of controversy on the campus and funds had been impounded. Faculty ate at Rucker Hall dining room. And it was just really, a low, low time. In fact, it was so low, at the Kentucky Baptist Association, general association--that convention that year. They take--they entertained a motion to close Georgetown. And Dr. Louis Ray, I think his name was Louis Ray, had a son named Finley Ray (??). He may have been Finley Ray, senior. But anyway, Dr. Ray stood up and said, "let's try--before we close Georgetown, let's try one more president." And he said, "and I'd like to advance the name of Dr. Sam Hill." So, when I think of Georgetown today, and those of us who graduated from there, I think we all stand on the shoulders of Dr. Ray and people like Daddy, Mr. Porter, and people like daddy, who thought they'd try one more time. So, then--next I was in the sixth grade, at this time. Next, mother and daddy said, "let's drive over and look at Georgetown." And so I remember that. I remember that what interested me and my criteria for whether I would support my father through was that there had to be a lot of trees on the campus for me to climb.

Glen Taul

Is that right?

Janie Hill Polk

And so, while they were looking around at this and that I'm out scouting the trees, and indeed there are wonderful maple trees all over the campus. And I can point to this day to them, and tell you how I learned to climb them and whould sit up in the trees and overhear snatches of conversation between faculty members and all kinds of things. And I've gathered some rather important information for my father. [laughter]

Glen Taul

Oh, really?

Janie Hill Polk

And--eventually, people learned to look up. [laughter] Janie might be watching--.

Glen Taul

Oh, really?

Janie Hill Polk

Jane might be listening.

Glen Taul

That's great.

Janie Hill Polk

And that just--just happened.

Glen Taul

That's funny.

Janie Hill Polk

The president's home was 408 Jackson Street. And--large, large old Victorian home, with a center hall. Two rooms on either side and a curving staircase. Large upstairs hall, two rooms on either side, porch across the back, attic, and cellar. There was a cellar, dirt floor cellar, under this. And it was just ugly as sin, it was just awful looking. Tirst time we looked at it, had mud=colored woodwork. I remember.

Glen Taul

My goodness.

Janie Hill Polk

--The walls were very, very wide. Thick, thick walls, it was a brick and it was old. And so, Mother what--had an excellent eye for color. She was--she was really tailor made, for her job there at Georgetown. And the first thing they did was paint the woodwork white.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Janie Hill Polk

And then I remember that she and my grandmother made 40 some pair of curtains.

Glen Taul

Wow.

Janie Hill Polk

For the inauguration. And these were sheer strips that hung at the windows. And they were all these old windows. So, one of the early sounds--auditory stimuli I have from that, is hearing the sewing machine. [makes sewing machine noise]

Glen Taul

Oh my.

Janie Hill Polk

[Makes sewing machine noise] As mother and grandmother, grandma, her mother.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Made the curtains. And I watched mother transform that house over the 11 years that we were there, until it was really beautiful. Just lovely and gracious, a wonderful house for entertaining. And I had--they added a bathroom downstairs, off of the guest room, and they added a bathroom over it upstairs, over my room beside by room. Mother and daddy's room was across the hall, and they had a bathroom. And so, I'm in the second guest room, one downstairs, one upstairs, which meant that, at any time when there were campus visitors, and we had more than a couple, then my room was always commandeered for the second guest room.

Glen Taul

Oh, okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And so I moved out numerous times, which was always a lot of fun for me, because I got to stay in the dormitory. I'd go to Rucker Hall or maybe even when one of the sorority houses.

Glen Taul

So, you would stay with one of the students?

Janie Hill Polk

That's right. And--that was a real privilege to me, to get to do that. And I made excellent--.

Glen Taul

Were they carefully chosen? [laughter]

Janie Hill Polk

I'm sure. Well, you see, mother, it's an interesting comment, either on my mother or me, I'm not sure which, but she wouldn't let me--she monitored very carefully how much time I spent around the college students. Because she didn't want me to be a pest, and I never saw myself as a pest, of course. And---but I was--it was real carefully monitored. That I would not just hang out with the college, I mean a little girl looking at college students, is fascinated by them. And so--.

Glen Taul

Especially if you wanted to feel grown up or something like that.

Janie Hill Polk

I guess, they just appealed to me and--we lived on the campus, that--that's who were there. There was no other children on the campus. So, it was the--the maintenance man, the faculty, the staff the college students. These were my friends, these were the people that I saw all the time, not other children. I had to go to school to do that. So it was--it was an idyllic childhood for me.

Glen Taul

So, what did you feel like when your father said that you'all were going to--going to Georgetown?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, God, it wasn't hard for me to leave Louisville, but it was very difficult for my brother. He--he is gifted intellectually, and he was at Male High, in Louisville, as a sophomore.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Janie Hill Polk

There, and for him to go from Male High to Garth School, with about 40, 45 in your class. That was, that was difficult for Sam. But at the same time, he was able to play basketball. And I can't remember that he ever tried to play football. But he's--he's--was on the debate team and everything and had opportunities for development there that he wouldn't have at huge Male High School in Louisville.

Glen Taul

So he would--he probably, even his two years there at Male he just--he wasn't involved in any kind of sports?

Janie Hill Polk

That's--I don't recall that he was. I mean, Sam has always been academically inclined, and he'd much rather read.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And he'd much rather pursue geography or history or something like that. Daddy would try to get Sam out of the house doing something--.

Glen Taul

Something.

Janie Hill Polk

--Physical.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And he tried to get me in the house [laughter] doing something academic. So, they had an interesting challenge in the difference in the two of us.

Glen Taul

What are some of the interesting times that you remember as a child at Georgetown?

Janie Hill Polk

I remember so fondly, occasions of state.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

Graduations were always really special to me. Because the speakers that we had, in and they stayed in our house, and then, I loved to see daddy dressed up in his academic regalia, and with his mortar board and his gold tassel, and his red hood, over the black row. And I would always sit in such a place so that, as they processed out. What do you call it, you process, you process in. What is the academic lined, then it exit--as it exits.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

In the academic procession, I would sit on the edge of the aisle. And as he came up there, he would reach out his hand and we would swing his hands as he passed. And that just thrilled me to death, I adored my daddy.

Glen Taul

Well, where did they hold assemblies like that?

Janie Hill Polk

Well, first--when we--the inauguration was at the Georgetown Baptist Church.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

I can't--I have no idea where graduation was held before the chapel was built. But of course, what I'm talking about is at the chapel.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And when was that, '47?

Glen Taul

'49

Janie Hill Polk

'49. And the--the building of the chapel is a huge benchmark. In my childhood, it's huge. I can hear mother and daddy in the room across the hall from me, talking, talking, talking late into the night. And then Daddy took us, he was in Virginia, and a very avid, staunch believer in Virginia, Virginia education, particularly in Virginia. So, we went on trips to see colleges in Virginia, particularly W&L, Washington & Lee. And like the columns are lined up when you stand in one place on Washington & Lee's campus. You see one column, but you're looking down a long, long line of columns.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

But the buildings are aligned so that you just see one column.

Glen Taul

One column. Huh.

Janie Hill Polk

And daddy wanted to do that at Georgetown. And if you stand--what used to be the Cook Building. Is it still called the Cook Building?

Glen Taul

Yes.

Janie Hill Polk

If you'll stand outside the Cook Building, you can see that and Giddings Hall and the chapel, are all lined up. And Pawling Hall may come in that vision too.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

But daddy saw those buildings, he he liked the layout of Washington & Lee. And if you wereJackson Street and you look left or right, you see a line of buildings. They're all in your vision.

Glen Taul

Well, and they're all--the way they're lined up is kind of interesting because, you have Pawling facing Jackson Street, you've got Giddings facing College Streets.

Janie Hill Polk

That's correct.

Glen Taul

Then you got--well wait--Pawling

Janie Hill Polk

The chapel faces Jackson,

Glen Taul

Exactly, and then, Cooke is facing Jackson, then where they put that portico on Highbaugh is facing toward College Street. And then you got the Nunelly Building, and it's facing Jackson Street.

Janie Hill Polk

It is interesting. But he--there were no sidewalks on the campus when daddy went and all the electricity was turned off, by one switch, all electricity was turned off at 10 o'clock. And that was because of the lack of funds.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Janie Hill Polk

And so the building and the sidewalks was--big. The--lining them up, putting lights along there, the lights that are on Giddings Drive. Is it still called, Memorial Drive, maybe?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

It's down by Giddings--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--That leads out to Main Street.

Glen Taul

Right.

Janie Hill Polk

What's that called?

Glen Taul

Well, it's still--I've always known a Giddings Drive.

Janie Hill Polk

Okay. Well, but all of the lights on either side of there, are in memory of a Georgetown graduate who died in World War Two. And so I remember see these were board years.

Glen Taul

Right.

Janie Hill Polk

So, I remember that getting the lights up across the campus, the sidewalks, the lights across the campus, the lights on Giddings Drive. And then the story of the chapel. I have to regress just a little bit. When we came in '42, October of '42. Daddy and I were sitting on the front porch and across the street, next to Giddings Hall, was a place where the old chapel had been. And it had burned down. And the basement hole of the chapel was still there.

Glen Taul

Oh, it was.

Janie Hill Polk

And people threw things in there all the time and burned them. It was like a dump.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

That constantly burned.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Huh.

Janie Hill Polk

And so I remember saying to Daddy, "I wish I was more like Sam, who was so excelled in school. So clearly early on. I wish I was more like Sam. I wish I didn't daydream so much." And Daddy said to me, "dream your dreams, Janie. Dream your dreams. I dream that where you say smoke rising out of that hole, acoss the street. One day, one of the most beautiful buildings in central Kentucky will be standing there." So that was a early--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--That daddy had that vision. And then in '49, as it went up, we studied the plans and all and every night, daddy would take my hand and we would go over and walk the beams or whatever was up in the chapel, every day. We saw the progress of the chapel.

Glen Taul

It took a little while to build, didn't it?

Janie Hill Polk

I have no idea.

Glen Taul

I think it--my sense is that it took about two years.

Janie Hill Polk

I have no idea.

Glen Taul

And I think it was partly because it was difficult to get the funds in. I don't doubt that (??) He raised the funds.

Janie Hill Polk

He sold the bricks. You know people bought bricks.

Glen Taul

Oh, like individual as a--.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

--As a fundraiser.

Janie Hill Polk

And they used that as a fundraiser a couple of years ago, again.

Glen Taul

They did.

Janie Hill Polk

Resurrected that. And so the--the dedication of the chapel was the apex of daddy's life. And certainly one of the apexes of my life.

Glen Taul

So all the remaining walls of the old chapel had been and were gone. It was just a hole that was--still remained.

Janie Hill Polk

And the new chapel [laughs] 50 years ago, that new chapel is not on the same grounds. Same site, the site where the old chapel was was besides Giddings Hall. There is a lot there. There's somethin-- there used to be a campus bookstore there, naturally.

Glen Taul

Oh, so it's between the new chapel--.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, that's right.

Glen Taul

--And the old.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right.

Glen Taul

And Giddings Hall.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right.

Glen Taul

I thought John L. Hill Chapel sort of occupied part of the site.

Janie Hill Polk

It may do part of it. But it was closer to Giddings Hall where all that smoke--.

Glen Taul

I knew the old chapel was a long building, not the way. John L Hill Chapel is. But, it like by east and west, instead of north and south.

Janie Hill Polk

I see-I see. Okay. Alright.

Glen Taul

Have you ever seen a picture of the old chapel?

Janie Hill Polk

It's been a long time.

Glen Taul

It's a fascinating building. I'm getting ready to do an exhibit on it. At your--at the museum in Georgetown. And it had not only the chapel in it, but the gymnasium and the library, all the literary society meeting rooms, a museum and some other professors offices.

Janie Hill Polk

Do you have any idea when it burned?

Glen Taul

1930, April of 1930.

Janie Hill Polk

Think of the loss of that building to that campus.

Glen Taul

It was built in 1893. And it was burned in 1930

Janie Hill Polk

What--how did it burn?

Glen Taul

They think it was an electrical short out in the tower, the clock tower.

Janie Hill Polk

So it had been, it was 12 years.

Glen Taul

It was nearly 20--.

Janie Hill Polk

We came---.

Glen Taul

--Years after the burning that new chapel was built.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, and we came there 12 years after.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

So that means that whole length of time in there was that gaping hole.

Glen Taul

Oh, that gaping hole. And in the first few years, they couldn't knock down the old walls. They were so solid. [laughs]

Janie Hill Polk

I wonder if that was built about the time the president's home was built.

Glen Taul

I think it was.

Janie Hill Polk

Because, as I say, the walls must have been a foot thick. It was cool in the summer, very cool.

Glen Taul

---Which is kind of nice for an old Victorian house.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, it was just wonderful. I just have the most marvelous memories of it. Mother was very hospitable. And you can talk with anybody who was at Georgetown during their years, and they'll mention mother and how she--how hard she worked. Oh, she worked so hard. And put on dinners and the--they had GA house parties. Is that a term that's familiar to you? GAs?

Glen Taul

Well, I know what GAs are.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, Girls Auxiliary--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And when they had spring vacation, they would bring GAs to Georgetown and put them in dormitories and all. And of course, it was a wonderful way to recruit students. And we had a reception at our house. There were weddings there, students would want to get married there.

Glen Taul

At the house?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah All kinds of receptions and dinners. Mother just loved, loved it so well, at putting on dinners. One of the things that is interesting, mother and daddy were both so devoted to service. And they were both--both so devoted to Georgetown, that Sam and I grew up certainly surrounded by love. We--we were not the star attraction though, the college was. We were involved, all of us were involved in building a college. And so there was this other thing that was so important in the passion for it.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Was--was there. It was a wonderful way. The--every Sunday afternoon, people would come to the college, parents would come and bring their children around, they would come to our house and knock on the door and Daddy would say, "Janie will show you around." And so I toured the campus with prospective students and their parents. I did that, I don't know how long.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Somewhere, freshman, sophomore in high school, you know, daddy entrusted that to me. It was neat for him.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

But what--one of the things that I have processed for years since, is that there were--there were no funds allocated. Because there couldn't be.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

There were no funds allocated for public relations, entertaining, furniture, a staff for mother, Any of that.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

So, a lot of the big, lovely old furniture that I have now, were bought by mother and daddy out of--off of a very low salary. And then all the entertaining they did came out of their pocket.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

The cleaning of the house. I was--I was commandeered in--and I was given the job early on of helping mother serve dinners. So, I would wash dishes and I'd serve and she was big on manners and doing things right. Setting the table. Just exactly perfect, big on etiquette.

Glen Taul

Oh, okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And I got to learn all that. Sam was not involved in any of that.

Glen Taul

Where was he at?

Janie Hill Polk

Well see, he's four years older than I.

Glen Taul

Right.

Janie Hill Polk

So, he was in college and graduate school.

Glen Taul

By that time.

Janie Hill Polk

By the time I was a freshman.

Glen Taul

In high school.

Janie Hill Polk

And when I was a freshman in high school, he was a freshman in college.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

So, just follow those years on.

Glen Taul

Right.

Janie Hill Polk

And so his was---he was involved in the college, and working and making money and going places and speaking and doing all kinds of things like that. Well, I'm my--my mother's aid or assistant.

Glen Taul

Right.

Janie Hill Polk

It was a gender based thing.

Glen Taul

Is there--is there a particular occasion that really sticks in your mind as special?

Janie Hill Polk

In the house?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, what are you doing? Well, the dinners, all of the dinners or graduation. All of those were big occasions. And--/

Glen Taul

So, she had a set routine or?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, yeah, I mean, when the silver would be polished, when the table was set, when she would cook, when she would do this, when she would do that.

Glen Taul

And she had none of that before she came to the college?

Janie Hill Polk

She was 20 years younger than daddy. He was--graduated with his PhD from Southern Seminary ThD, in Southern Seminary and he was her pastor in New Albany, Indiana.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

So, as he gets his doctorate, and hats to a pastorate in Richmond, Virginia, he married mother, who is 19, 20. Because daddy--daddy was late in getting his education because he'd to school and then he'd work.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Then go to school and worked and finally--.

Glen Taul

And it was all during the Depression, I guess?

Janie Hill Polk

It was, that's correct. So the first pastorate they had in Richmond, which is where Sam and I were born.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

Two women, who were these marvelous, old Virginia cooks. Hospitality just (??) of Richmond, took mother under their wing and taught her.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Janie Hill Polk

She was their pastor's wife. And they taught her all of these wonderful skills. And they would prepare dinners, and mother is--now you know, 22, 23, daddy's 42, 43.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Pastor of a very nice church, and the'd come in and fix the meal and then leave.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And people thought mother did it.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Janie Hill Polk

So it--they--what they taught mother about entertaining, she used as a pastor's wife in Louisville.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And then when we came to Georgetown, she then is, how old? I don't know--30, in her 30s And that's--just became a full blown blossom thing for her.

Glen Taul

What do you remember about Christmases?

Janie Hill Polk

The music, wonderful music.

Glen Taul

The decorating, I mean everything, I mean, just the whole.

Janie Hill Polk

--It was gorgeous. Our particular--there were never a lot of gifts. We were living on a shoestring.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And they were never a lot of gifts. But, I remember the music and the college cause--d-- you see, after the students left for Christmas break, we were there on campus by ourselves.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

So Christmas was really college, and they're very quiet.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And another treasured story from childhood. Is early on, I was attracted to music and loved beautiful music. And the oratorio choir practice was every Tuesday night in Giddings Hall, which is right straight across the street from the president's home, I mean the sidewalk in front of the president's home connected.

Glen Taul

Is that-- [laughs]

Janie Hill Polk

At the sidewalk--. [Tape stops] To let me go to oratorio choir practice. Because of course, I could hear it. I mean, they started practicing in September. The doors would be open, I could hear it.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And I begged and begged to be able to go to oratorio choir practice and mother finally relented. And after--I thought was not to be a pest. [laughter] And I went every Tuesday night, from the time I was in the sixth grade, until I graduated from college, to oratorio choir practice and they practiced the Messiah every year. And you think of the richness, it's like The Messiah is mine. I mean, I know that music so well. And I can see different professors conducting it, I can hear different soloists, whoever the soloist that was of the year and different sweet college girls would take me under their wing, and let me sit with them. Or save me a seat. And as I think of it now, I can imagine, imagine the college students looking at this litle 12, 13 year old girl who came to--oratorial choir practice, every Tuesday night. But what a wonderful--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--Wonderful thing that was.

Glen Taul

So that was one tradition of the college during Christmas, what was another one?

Janie Hill Polk

Always the Messiah. Always.

Glen Taul

Yeah, what was another one? Do you remember?

Janie Hill Polk

President's reception every fall.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Where mother daddy dressed up in a long dress and black tie and they greeted the faculty. It was at our house for many years, then it was in the gym.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

Graduations (??) who was gonna get the honorary doctorate that year? I'll have to reflect on that a little bit to see what other traditions.

Glen Taul

That you got involved in while a kid?

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, there was a wonderful candlelight service at the Presbyterian Church, put on by Sigma Kappa sorority. And the girls would process singing [sings] candle light, burning bright, shed your glow on the fireside, Sigma K. It was a beautiful, haunting melody that the girls sang. And they all wore white robes and then they had a creche. And they had a real Mary and a real Joseph and real baby. And read Christmas poetry or scripture.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

For this. We looked forward to the--Sigma Kappa candlelight service every year. That was a tradition. Mayday.

Glen Taul

I haven't heard about Mayday.

Janie Hill Polk

Mayday was wonderful. They chose on May Queen and King. My brother was made king when he was in college, they did the maypole dance. So, does that meaning anything to you?

Glen Taul

A little bit? Yes. I mean, it's it's a British--.

Janie Hill Polk

Is it?

Glen Taul

--Tradition, I think. But I mean, it's all--

Janie Hill Polk

There was a pole in the center.

Glen Taul

Right and you were--.

Janie Hill Polk

And all these streamers and they just wound and wound and wound and wound until it was all--

Glen Taul

And usually, the women do that don't they?

Janie Hill Polk

I think girls did that. Yes.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Janie Hill Polk

I think girls and--.

Glen Taul

It was sort of a fertility rite.

Janie Hill Polk

That would--that would figure I mean, I remember wispy, kind of nympth like girls dressed in that way. Doing this, Maypole dance. You understand that there was no dancing on the campus?

Glen Taul

Yeah. Well--.

Janie Hill Polk

Of course not drinking.

Glen Taul

Yeah, well, sure.

Janie Hill Polk

Of course, not drinking, but there was no dancing. And the rules. The girls were allowed so many dates a month. But dates to church were free. So you go with a guy, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Bring a date.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And by gosh, I mean, the church was always just full of couples. [laughter] You had--if you were on the Dean's list, you got more dates. Closing time--what 258:00or 11?

Glen Taul

Were when.

Janie Hill Polk

That's when the dormitories were locked, you had to be in by then. And if not, there was some kind of penalty.

Glen Taul

But the men didn't have the same kind of---.

Janie Hill Polk

No.

Glen Taul

--Restrictions.

Janie Hill Polk

Well, I don't think so. But I remember, since you couldn't drink or you couldn't dance.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

There was a lot of petting that went on. I mean, couples would sit on the campus and smooch. [laughter] And it's-- interesting to me recall that a lot of girls who got in trouble, trouble being too much hugging and kissing.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And they would be campused.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Janie Hill Polk

That means you can't go off of the campus.

Glen Taul

Campus.

Janie Hill Polk

And they were dating ministerial students. [laughter] Yeah. We knew that--we knew the ministerial students were trouble. [laughter] And one would think that in the repressive atmosphere---.

Glen Taul

yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

--Like that, personality development couldn't take place.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And the opposite is true. Since you couldn't do those things, you did other things. You had hay rides. And you had pep rallies. And you--the debate team was big and the choir was big. The oratorio choir was big. Maskrafters were big. Football and basketball games, track meets, all of those kinds of things were big. And the sororities and fraternities had socials.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Which were really banquets.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

But they had favors and you wore formal attire and all of that. And I--my friends who for--three others, particularly who--good friends today from those years, none of our children have the stories to tell about their college years like we do.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

We consider ourselves very rich that we had a very rich college education and experience. Professors taking an interest in us. And that is really, a lot of my development, had to do with professors, who took an interest in me. And certainly my friends. One of whom, became a Fulbright Scholar, it was all because Dr. Carl Fields.

Glen Taul

Oh, really?

Janie Hill Polk

So small college, Christian college, headed by a man who was deeply committed to the college, to Christian education, which is broader than Baptist education. And that eventually got him in trouble. But he--Christian education was what daddy was about.

Glen Taul

Is there any drawbacks about being the daughter of a president of a college, a small Christian college?

Janie Hill Polk

Certainly, there were, but they were exceeded by the advantages. But yeah, I was expected to be perfect. And it disturbed me a great deal that I wasn't. Disturbed me a great deal that I was not as bright as my brother, academically, at any rate. I think there were people who would not be my friend because I was the president's daughter.

Glen Taul

Oh wow.

Janie Hill Polk

Boys who would not date me because I was the president's daughter. Boys who were teased mercifully, when they did date me, because of daddy.

Glen Taul

How was your daddy---when you--when did you start dating? Did you start dating after you started college or before?

Janie Hill Polk

Before. I was allowed to date some, at sixteen. We ran around in a group, that we paired off, but there were a group of eight of us, four couples, that ran around together. And then, my junior and senior year I just went you know, I didn't cross daddy (??). Oh, it was just fun to have boyfriends and I'd go places with daddy, when he was speaking and there was always some boy there. [laughter] So I got a lot of mail and had wonderful friends. All over central Kentucky, it was really neat.

Glen Taul

Was your dad ever hard on your dates?

Janie Hill Polk

Um-hmm. The expectation was there. And this is a personal story of father and daughter. I was about in the eighth grade, seventh or eighth grade. And you're really getting interested in boys. We really--getting interested in boys. And there was a boy named Jimmy Bennett, who gave me his boy scout pin [laughter]. And he was a year older, maybe two years. I think two years older than I. And so one night, everybody sort of congregated at my house, the president's home. And we decided to play hide and seek and we were up to no good. The girls going off and the boys going off. And so, daddy saw me--saw Jimmy and me take off, down where the grill was, behind our house. It's where the sorority houses are now.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And we were going down there to hold hands or something equally bad. But you know this, this was not to be done. And daddy saw it. And so he came out of the back door and he called me. And of course, I had to appear from--about-- where I was hiding. And he said, "you all come here, all of you come here." And he sent everybody home and said, "Janie, I want to talk to you."

Glen Taul

Uh oh.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, I was embarrassed and scared. Petrified. mother wasn't there, and we went in the room, as you walked in the front hall, we were--went in the room to the left, which is like a den. It was a second living room. And we sat there and it was--I remember it being dark. And daddy said, "Janie, all of your life, you are gonna have opportunities to be with boys." He said, "you like boys and boys like you. And you're gonna have to be making some choices about what you do, what your behavior is, like." The, he said, "I hope you will always make choices that are to the good, for yourself, for the boy, and for Mary." That's my mother--first name, and that's all he said.

Glen Taul

Oh, really.

Janie Hill Polk

And he never told mother.

Glen Taul

Oh, he didn't. Now, where was she?

Janie Hill Polk

She was out at some meeting or something--.

Glen Taul

Oh, is that right.

Janie Hill Polk

--She was away. He never told her. But it--was--it was a perfect way to handle me. Because he played on my love for him. My respect for him, and his hope for me that I would live a good life. And he knew that I was just mischievous enough and daring enough, that trouble was a possibility. And that was the perfect way--.

Glen Taul

And you were--.

Janie Hill Polk

Because I wouldn't have hurt him for anything in the world.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

I was in the seventh or eighth grades--what are you, 13, 14?

Glen Taul

I think that's about right.

Janie Hill Polk

Let's see.

Glen Taul

You were just breaking teenager, I guess.

Janie Hill Polk

That's right. That's right.

Glen Taul

Goodness gracious.

Janie Hill Polk

Isn't that a beautiful story?

Glen Taul

So did you have birthday parties --in the house?

Janie Hill Polk

I don't remember birthday parties. I do not.

Glen Taul

Did y'all have any kind of personal--I mean parties just for you, when you were growing up--any kind of parties--that just involved you?

Janie Hill Polk

I have no memory of that. I had people come over and spend the night. I have no memory of that. That's a very insightful and interesting question, one which I will have fun thinking about and asking Sam about as well. I don't ever remember being slighted in any way. I'm sure I got birthday presents. But, I don't remember that.

Glen Taul

I assume that y'all belonged to The Georgetown Baptist Church?

Janie Hill Polk

Of course.

Glen Taul

What was it like going to church there, before you went--.

Janie Hill Polk

It was hard.

Glen Taul

--To college?

Janie Hill Polk

The preachers were not always good.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And they were very strict and stern. And as a kid, it didn't appeal to me a lot though I was there a lot. And a devoted Christian. I expect the boys that I got to see had as much to do with it. I mean, that's just, the church was the social center.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And whenever I could, went with daddy, who spoke all over the state.

Glen Taul

Wow.

Janie Hill Polk

And I went with him and would listen preach--speak.

Glen Taul

So, he would preach at a lot of churches?

Janie Hill Polk

All the time. All the time. And there--I was at a funeral three weeks ago, and somebody said, "Oh, are you Janie Hill?" And I was said, "Yes.' "Oh, I remember your daddy and how I could hear him speak and I would love to hear him speak. I'll never forget your daddy. He meant so much to my life." And daddy's been dead 41 years.

Glen Taul

Wow.

Janie Hill Polk

I remember being conscious of gender inequity.

Glen Taul

How did that play out?

Janie Hill Polk

Somewhwere around the again? How old am I at that time? Seventh, eighth grade, they asked--at the Georgetown Baptist Church, they ask all the deacons in the church to stand and come forward and they made a circle around the church. I mean, on the whole outside wall, you know that church, what it is formed like? It's a Victorian church, with lots of alcoves and stuff. And so then, the deacons were lined up all the way around the church. And I looked and thought, well, I guess if you're a female, you don't ever, you don't ever lead, you can't ever maean anything in the church if you're a female, if you're a little girl. And I thought, at the time, I've got the wrong equipment. [laughter] I remember thinking that, so it made a clear picture. And I'm so glad that has changed. And that women, there's so many strong, wonderful women, who have voices in the church, and I'm so glad of that.

Glen Taul

Now, when it came time for you to choose a college, but there was no question.

Janie Hill Polk

Brochures, catalogs, college visits, that was neve a question. It just--you went from being a senior in high school to graduating to Georgetown, same for my brother. And another thing is, I didn't know that you couldn't go to college. I didn't know that it was possible.

Glen Taul

Not be able to go.

Janie Hill Polk

Not to go. And certainly, in my later life, I realized how fortunate I was to have an education given me. And then I lived such a sheltered life, that I didn't even know you couldn't go to college. Think of that.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

My whole life had been geared toward college.

Glen Taul

Do you think you would have chosen not to go, if you had knew about the choice?

Janie Hill Polk

I don't think so. I adored daddy so much, that to receive a college degree from him, that just--that superseded everything. And that was a glorious day.

Glen Taul

Now, when did you enter?

Janie Hill Polk

For--graduated from high school in '49.

Glen Taul

Well, you started in '50? Well no--.

Janie Hill Polk

No, in '49.

Glen Taul

The fall of '49.

Janie Hill Polk

And I graduated in '53. And remember walking up on the stage at graduation, and looking at daddy as I crossed the stage to him. He was standing there with my diploma and they said (??) and I mouthed the words to him, which he clearly read--I mean, lipread I said, I'm gonna kiss you. And I could see his color. [laughter] So when I got to him, he handed me my diploma, and I reached over and hugged him and kissed him. [laughter] And I remember loud, loud, loud long, ovation from everybody who was attending. It was a unique little moment.

Glen Taul

Well, it was in the new chapel too, practically.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah, that's right. That's right. So Sam--doesn't have--these kinds of memories. He will give you the history, the dates, the academic landmarks, he will remember all of those things. But I was the child of the heart, apparently. Because I was just this, this unit and this love for Georgetown College. And all of the conversations in our house, were about dreams and faculty and students who came out of nowhere and made it. And certainly, my experience at the Lexington Hearing and Speech Center, where I was the executive director for 23 years, it was me replicating what I had seen daddy do.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Janie Hill Polk

There's no question in my mind about that.

Glen Taul

What are the--what are the memories that you have, and you lived at home while you were going to--.

Janie Hill Polk

Yeah.

Glen Taul

--School, of course.

Janie Hill Polk

--But I was--I'd stay in the dorm and I was in the sorority.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And I stayed at the sorority house a lot. I was over there spending the night and so forth, but I lived at home.

Glen Taul

Okay, what are the--what are some of the memories you have about your sorority?

Janie Hill Polk

Oh, [laughs] we just--a few weeks ago, I was invited back to the Sigma Kappa House, because it's 50 years since I was initiated.

Glen Taul

I heard about the anniversary.

Janie Hill Polk

Oh my gosh, I just hate these 50 year things [laughter]. Get everybody to know exactly how old you are and so forth. So I head over to that house, and then I was the only one of our pledge group who came. And so I stood up in front of the girls, and I said, "this is what it looks like 50 years later." And they laughed and we had a good time. But, I--having grown up on the campus. Now, this is--this is biased, what I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm certainly biased. But having grown up on the campus and seeing the girls, the women who were members of Sigma Kappa sorority, I was impressed with who they were, their accomplishments, what they stood for. They were the ones in oratorio choir, they were the ones--in debate, they were campus leaders, I just respected those women. But it had fallen on hard times, and Sigma Kappa was not the lead sorority, Kappa Delta was.

Glen Taul

Oh1

Janie Hill Polk

And so I decided that I wanted to be a Sigma Kappa, and I would persuade any of the really sharp freshmen there on the campus. Let's go, let's join that sorority and let's bring it back to where it was. And so certainly a big factor in that was a marvelous woman from my high school class, and all the way through college, Lucille Hemple. She now lives in Vermont. She's as fine today as she was then, Lucille Parker is her name. And so Lou, and I got busy and went to--we had a pledge class of 22 Girls, which was a huge pledge class.

Glen Taul

Sure.

Janie Hill Polk

And many of the things that are in the sorority house now for example, a gold mirror over there, that is there. When you walk in the house, you see that golden mirror. I knew all these people on the campus and I knew all the alumni and knew the trustees, and knew all these people.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

So I said, "Don't you want to help us?"

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

And they thought this was cute or fun or something.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Because all these people helped gave---mirror--Mr. Wolf gave us the mirror, people gave us furniture. People gave us stuff and we turned that thing around. And when I was a senior, I went to our sorority convention in Pasadena, California, and received the Silver Service (??) for having the most improved chapter in the nation.

Glen Taul

Wow.

Janie Hill Polk

So--.

Glen Taul

Now, where was the house located?

Janie Hill Polk

The Student Center Building. Now what is the sta--what is the street right down behind the Student Center Building?

Glen Taul

College.

Janie Hill Polk

College Street. Okay. You would go out the back of the Student Center Building and walk across the street? That's where the house was.

Glen Taul

Oh, okay. So that's the house, it was in the parking lot of Anderson Hall.

Janie Hill Polk

Yes.

Glen Taul

It burned sometime in the 60s.

Janie Hill Polk

We had a wonderful--we really had a good sorority. Mrs. Parrish was our house mother. She was the mother of Alman (??) Cook He was one of the donors of the Cook Building.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

And Mrs. Parrish was a lovely, dignified, attractive widow of a minister. And she was our house mother. We adored her and standards were tough--academic standards, everything was high. And we all look at the development, leadership development that was made possible for us, through working on the sorority. But, you see, again, what I had seen daddy do .

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk

Was transposed into building a story. Building that chapter. I mean, you just see the influence of my parents. Over, over, and over.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk

In my life.

Glen Taul

Okay, what kind of--now, what do you remember about the social occassions of your sorority?

Janie Hill Polk

How hard we worked on it. I mean, Rush--

Glen Taul

What's involved in--with Rush?

Janie Hill Polk

Rush It was in the fall.

Glen Taul 1:

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

And so you started looking at your freshman class, as it came in. Seeing who you wanted to get to be your sorority sister, who you wanted to pledge your sorority. So, you had to be everywhere, and you had to be nice to them and, and everyone roles. I don't remember what they were, but illegal recruiting, whatever that might have been, wasn't allowed. And then [clears throat] we would have these elaborate rush parties and since you couldn't dance.

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

And there were never any cocktails or anything like that.

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

You have--it had to be creative. They had to have themes.

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

And you had to put it all together on a shoestring.

Glen Taul 1:

What kind of themes did you have?

Janie Hill Polk 1:

I don't remember.

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah. But, you decorated the house?

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Oh, we decorated the house and wrote plays and wrote skits and dressed up.

Glen Taul 1:

So, you had to try to show that you can have fun? How did you impress on them that this is going to be--it's also serious?

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Well, because our academic record was good. I mean, we poured it up--all of the people that we had in everything on the campus.

Glen Taul 1:

Now, did you do some preliminary research about their academic backgrounds or?

Janie Hill Polk 1:

No, I don't recall that. I don't recall that.

Glen Taul 1:

So, you just basically got that information just from talking to everybody.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Must have. Records and that kind of thing. I mean, we knew who was a legacy.

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Whose parents, or had been, you know.

Glen Taul 1:

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Things like GPAs, and stuff like that--that is so well known today. We didn't know that.

Glen Taul 1:

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

I have no memory of that.

Glen Taul 1:

What kind of social events--what were the social events that you would have during the school year?

Janie Hill Polk 1:

At the sorority?

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Or just?

Glen Taul 1:

At the sorority.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

You had Rush, we had the Sigma Kappa Christmas pageant, sing somewhere far. Oh, yes, remind me talk about campus sing.

Glen Taul 1:

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

And then, you had initiation, as I recall was probably February, March. Initiation was big. Then the formal, there was a spring formal, and not only yours, but the fraternities and other sorority had them. So, you might go to five, four---no, you didn't go to the other sororities', you might go to four formal. If you've--if you got asked.

Glen Taul 1:

Oh, yeah.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Willing to go with a date sometime. I think this is a good time to talk about campus sing.

Glen Taul 1:

Okay.

Janie Hill Polk 1:

Wonderful occasion. All sororities and fraternities, independent groups as well, prepared to sing as a group, a number, maybe two. And it was held in the chapel. And so you practiced, think of the team building of this. You practiced, you had campus sing practice every week. And then you dressed alike, meaning all white blouses with purple streamers or something. And you filed up there on the stage. [tape cuts out]