Oral History Interview with Orlin Corey Part III

Orlin Corey

This is an unrehearsed interview with Orlin Corey, a Professor of Speech at Georgetown College, 1952 to 1959 by Glen Taul, archivist. The interview took place in the Ensor Learning Resource Center of Georgetown College on September 9th, 2000. Too, and this is one of those critical issue--critical points in Georgetown's history is the proposal to move the campus from its traditional spot. And what were the, from your knowledge, what were the circumstances surrounding that and how did it come about? Well, Glen, this is September, the--

Glen Taul

Ninth.

Orlin Corey

Ninth, 2002, I have some small confusion of overlaying things I now know against things that I remembered and knew at that time, when that was happening in the 50s. So it's a little--it's difficult for them to respond to fairly to you of the subject. So, I'm going to walk there between then and now. I now know [laughter] that there was great interest among some of the prominent Baptist ministers and some individuals in their churches, but specifically, three or four Baptist ministers in Louisville in the 50s, who agreed amongst themselves, that it was a shame and--many of them spoke out about this. That this was the population center of the state--which had the greatest num--greatest concentration of Baptists, as well as the general public, of any location in the state, but did not have a single Baptist educational institution there, apart from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. And at the same time, the Baptists of Jefferson County, I'm now subbing it out, because they were--thinking and saying in different ways, were paying a high percentage of whatever they gave the quality program for education, which always went out of the city and their young people had to go out to benefit from it. So it's a little of that issue, as in secular history between, you know, why should we pay for the school when we don't have anybody going to it?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Which is short sighted in the secular sense.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And maybe in the other sense, too, I don't know. But there was some of that feeling and some of these people were also on the board at Georgetown College. And some of them, not necessarily the same people. So you see, I'm giving you a very sort of out of focus summary. And I need lots of papers here to be more specific on the names, were also on the State Education Commission, which may not be the right term for the general associations, or Kentucky Baptist Convention, however they style themselves now.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

For that committee, which in effect administers the properties, educational properties that the convention owns, but some of them had dual responsibility. And so it came about that Georgetown was seeking a new president Some of these people on that board--

Glen Taul

so this is like in--'54?

Orlin Corey

This would have been 1950. Well could have started the search in '53.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Very well because Dr. [Sam] Hill left early in '53, there was an interim, Dr. (??) Judd (??)

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

But somewhere in that time, see, I'm not up close on that. A couple of the ministers who had this feeling about education and low level Baptist education in Louisville were also on that committee. Because they were Georgetown trustees, to search for a president, who would then be also ratified, presumably by the state board. I didn't realize until recently, but apparently there was sort of a dual board, or there's a junior board that had the local responsibility, but they were approved apparently, the board members were approved by the larger committees.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

Sort of a dual control, which is interesting, I didn't know that at the time. Anyway, they were involved in that. Now, it's-- now, their point of view, basically, as I understand it now and as it came to be perceived then gradually, because there was no public announcement of this. These were priv--these were thoughts expressed in sermons and public statements in Louisville to their congregations about their anxiety. There's a basis for saying that about what I'm speaking of. The inefficiency of their giving money to what they didn't get benefit from. But they--basically, their ideal was to consolidate the educational resources of the state. State Baptist is what I mean when I say state, and to re-evaluate these in terms of efficiency and costs and all other criteria that would be appropriate. To the end that there would be a consolidation, so that resources could be brought together and marshaled in a way that would then contribute to the founding of a larger Baptist educational institution in the state.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And a number of them naturally wanted this to be in Louisville, for the reasons I already stated.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

I think that's a pretty fair summary of their concept. Now, how, what strategies would be used to get to that goal, that's a different matter. But that was the goal, and probably a rather reasonable concept. Of course, then you'd have to deal with human nature and all of these other institutions who have had their vocal boards, traditions, alumni, faculty, associations, and so forth, which is difficult to weigh the value of these. Now, one of the ministers, because he was a pastor in the city at that time at one of the Baptist churches and at the (??) oratory (??) was also an Old Testament professor at Southern Baptist Seminary. And that was Dr. Henry Leo Eddelman, who styled himself as H. Leo Eddleman. And he was very much of that group, and they were compadres about this. And while the Louisville components of the board did not comprise the whole committee, that was looking for a president, they were a major factor in that by just the coincidence of the way the board had been set up. I understand that, two, and quite possibly three of tha--this is approximate, I think, seven member committee and all this is subject to be corrected by research, that was doing the search. But they were unified in that concept, and ultimately, their view prevailed and Dr. Eddleman was appointed as president.

Glen Taul

Okay. So, the presidential search was basically focused, I mean, the way the political makeup was, when they were searching for a new president, they were looking for somebody to implement their--

Orlin Corey

Yeah.

Glen Taul

Designs--

Orlin Corey

Well, not the committee as a whole, but a strong component of the committee. Definitely--and they appointed a man who was one with them in that view.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

So anyway, now of course, he was chosen to become president of Georgetown College. And he quite publicly said so and properly sought to be so.

Glen Taul

Did he also make someb--but he didn't make it known that on his agenda was to move the--.

Orlin Corey

No, no, no--

Glen Taul

--college to Louisville.

Orlin Corey

No, no, no, there was no stated agenda, except to make Georgetown College, all the proper things he would say.

Glen Taul

Sure.

Orlin Corey

That--the best in the state and the best, so on and so on. And he was a tireless person, great energy, who worked night and day, drove himself hard. Drove his cars very fast, often got tickets. [laughter]. And so on and so on. The Green Hornet, they called the green Pontiacs. [laughter] And his cars were given to him by a Baptist trustee who had ownership. And so he pretty well--

Glen Taul

Mr. Cook.

Orlin Corey

Well, it was one of the Cooks in--in--

Glen Taul

Louisville.

Orlin Corey

Louisville.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Pontiacs they were.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And [chuckles] there's another Cook brother in Lexington, I believe it is. Sold Chevrolets.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Anyway, this is the Louisville side. And there was some associate--there's close association, there was another friend of Dr. [H. Leo] Eddleman's and this is--and then in the Highbaughs, to name a couple of other families, were very much under--under his influence. And he was well acquainted with them and they thought highly of him. But in any case, he was here for a little over four years, as you know, and was introduced on the campus--in the end of May, or at the time of graduation in 1954 that spring. And was inaugurated that autumn, but began serving from that time forward. But it became, now--now let me leave the general summary to say I was a faculty member and there were others. Now several of us were particularly involved with activities which carried--which extended our work on the campus into the state. Among these being people who did choirs and ensembles, that sang, who had a reputation, and part of the training experience was to move out and to be not only in Kentucky, but beyond.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

A wonderful and appropriate activity. And in my case, the Speech and Drama Department had evolved--was evolving and had evolved by then, a touring with a disarmament program. This is all distinct from the on campus program. And that would be true with the music people too, they have their on campus dimensions to this too. And these ensembles, plus the debate, people, there were several of these groups, had wide exposure, wide contacts and indirectly served as great ambassadors for the state--for the college.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

While they were also performing their own training, and so on, and therefore they had reputation. Audiences and friends are in the Greek sense, they had political factor there, of loyalty to them. Therefore, in moving about the state, and appearing at, say, a church for a weekend, doing a performance, be it choir, whatever, several of us, you see, would get feedback from laypeople there who would say, "well, you know, your president was here last month, and he spoke about the necessity of moving Georgetown College to Louisville, or the necessity of moving of--combining all Baptist education into a great university. "That, and he would speak of it being named Georgetown.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Because he was staying loyal to that dimension, there's no doubt of that. But we also learned that the language was handled, which is good politics, another sense of politics in different ways in different places. So that if you're in another area, we would learn, one of the choir people told me. That's where they were-- a place where there was a small Baptist institution, they were told that it would be a way to transform that one into a very large center for Baptist education, and so forth. So eventually, one began to get dots on the chart.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Sometimes we would connect the dots, according to this--with that group.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And particularly when other things were transpiring at different levels, a consensus began to appear. And then, at the end of the first year, he was here that there was another game afoot. And then, in interviews with faculty, and he never talked, faculty salaries, ranks and so forth, were closely held card, if you'll pardon the metaphor.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

To his vest.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And he personally administered these and played these in one on interviews. [clears throat] And it gradually became known that certain people had been talked to about the willingness to, to go to Georgetown in Louisville. And if they were open-minded about this, or were enthusiastic, they were given larger--.

Glen Taul

Salaries.

Orlin Corey

--Increases. Not that they were ever very large, but the--at the time, but they got more than others.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

You know how that would work in the faculty circles, in the coffee club.

Glen Taul

Sure.

Orlin Corey

And so forth. So, by such devious, unreliable, unscientific and quite possibly fairly accurate [laughter] insights, that you cannot quantify, people became aware of other things being afoot. Now, there came a time, this went on a while. Then there came a time when the state committee I'm shifting focus.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

The state--the Kentucky, whatever they call that overall committee, not the board of Georgetown, but the overall committee--

Glen Taul

It was a specially appointed commission of the Kentucky Baptist Convention to study the educational system--.

Orlin Corey

Well came out of that there, okay, that group, whatever they called you've got, okay. It was that group.

Glen Taul

Okay

Orlin Corey

And I--this was like 25 or 40 people, I think. It was a pretty good size group. They were persuaded to employ a major research firm, from Chicago, Booz Allen Hamilton, as a matter of fact, to make a study of the system of--for Baptists in the state, and they did so on--and under that authorization, Dr. Eddleman, as president of the senior college. My understanding is pretty well directed that search. He informed them and discussed the parameters and they reported to him. This went on a year. Their report, when he came, you understand, the world at large didn't know this, certainly the Faculty Club didn't know this. But one by one--that these bits came out. They evolved a massive report that I understand is about two inches thick.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Orlin Corey

I've not seen it. Very few people ever saw it. And--

Glen Taul

I wonder if it's still around.

Orlin Corey

And--well, it would be possibly in the archives and--in Middletown.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Possibly. If it's anyplace, it's there. And this was made for that committee that you referred to. And in essence, it recommended, we now know that the committee recommend to the association that certain institutions be closed, that others be better built up as regional feeder institutions to serve a new--a new state or Baptist, Kentucky Baptist university in Louisville. And that the logical one to take the lead on that would be Georgetown, in order to preserve the various accreditation. So, it'd be in Georgetown's name, and by that time, they had formed a Georgetown extension in Louisville.

Glen Taul

Yeah, I read that in the newspaper.

Orlin Corey

--On the Highbaugh land, that had been, you notice, now certain connections are here. And that this would grow to a time when it would then become whatever it would become. Possibly Georgetown University or Kentucky, Baptist, but they could not change the name until such time and certain whatever. It was the name and accreditation, we're holding, Georgetown, close to this.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

So that it could be sad. This is an lawyer's sense of language--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--That Georgetown college was being built up, while at the same time, the other was being developed in their name. Now, I'm telling you, al--I'm interpreting already on top of what--

Glen Taul

That's fine.

Orlin Corey

But that went inside that--that report, in essence, was confined to that group. And they received the report, I understand, accepted it, and then were quite--and then were going to recommend it to the general association, for adoption. And I think they got the report in like the August before the meeting in November.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And that there was no intention to publicize this at large, other than just within the general agenda. Note that the committee was recommending the adoption of such and such a report. Now, I do understand from more recent researches, which I did not know then, that the report was being prepared to be sent to ministers, Baptist pastors of--the--I presume the pastor rather than say music minister. That particular minister, probably--. The head of the church. --As head of the local church.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

These were perhaps sent along if so, it must have been in like early October or so, a scant month before. Because that was in process when sometime in--the report was given in late August. So this is probably October, to quiet (??) all this. Sometime in September or a spade, a reporter at the Louisville Courier Journal concerned with affairs of churches and religion, obtained a copy of this. And that I don't know how that came about. But he was well connected. And it could be that one of the people in the Baptist world who wanted this to happen there, wanted it to be given to them. Who knows. But anyway, I can't imagine any of those people sort of leaving it to--

Glen Taul

No!

Orlin Corey

But it became a front page story. Not only once, but several times. It was thoroughly analyzed and hit the paper--it hit the state, which in turn then led to the fueling of major newspaper releases in Campbellsville, Cumberland wherever there was a Baptist School and of course Lexington and Georgetown, etc. Which was really before the pastors had seen it. Not the best of timing for certain plans.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

Apparently, the concept was this would simply be washed through and adopted, peaceably without disturbance. Now I'll back off and say I also understand, someone in that time. I was hearing this because of the touring programs and choirs and drama, but especially choirs, they had several groups out.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But also the drama side. That certain local institution presidents, some of these institutions had been courted, and encouraged to be involved in the shape of the future and have a part in this and that the positions and the institutional name would be preserved, which legally was essential in terms of endowments. to be sure.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But presumably, the legalities of each would very likely had to have been litigated, I'm pretty certain.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But, can these funds be transferred, whatever, whatever, whatever, from a place? Or were they given to a name, or to the name in the place? All that would have to be sorted. Obviously, there's complication there. But they weren't involved and were more or less amenable to the idea that there would be more funding and other institutions would prosper. The details were not, it was the kind of a pie in the sky approach. And there was a general warm feeling on--and the Booz Allen Hamilton matter, which was interviewed with each of them, was seen as a part of this and fed a larger hole for greater resources and a brighter future, which was dashed. When the Courier Journal picture--papers appeared. And they got tuned into a larger picture, which related to other institutions than their own. Now, that's probably about half accurate. That's about what I know today, in 2002. After that, it's--it's a local game. And as a history buff, you will very likely know, the observation, I'm going to make of the famous Speaker of the House in Washington, that all politics is local--

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

Tip O'Neil's (??). And all politics is local. And I can now say that in Georgetown, where there's a great deal of information available, from that time, from the middle of September on. Front page, even to the point of,. virtually it seemed to me like special edition, or at least that kind of scope of headline, I got a two inch headline.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Which we've never seen--normally, you'll have each headlines for the major stories. And you had a cooperation in the town, with the student association. Funds given from the one side, by people in Georgetown, to help pay for postage and printing. And some 600 or 700 students became active volunteers in an ad hoc extension of the organization, which worked out for Anderson Hall.

Glen Taul

Oh--

Orlin Corey

And a biology professo, Last name was Shackley (??). Very capable, man. A very, very capable ma, who was also resident, what would you say Dean, Father, pater--local, local father to the--to the dorm.

Glen Taul

Okay. Okay.

Orlin Corey

But he took under his leadership and he had lots of smarts and experience in organizing and they organized and they wrote and they mimeographed and they posted and they did mailing lists. They reached thousands of people associated with Georgetown, their families, the Alumni Association weighed in. The historical association weighed in. the women's association weighed in, the chamber of commerce and Kiwanis. And all of these groups come were coming into this with funds coming to help pay for this. That was just from here. You can be certain this went on in Campbellsville, it went on--. It was an enormous grassroots stir. So much so, that the state structure was not prepared to handle for the people who are going to show up at Elizabethtown in November. So--

Glen Taul

So, the showdown is gonna come at the state convention?

Orlin Corey

State convention, which was---

Glen Taul

--In Elizabethtown--.

Orlin Corey

At Severns Valley Baptist Church.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

In Elizabethtown, that November. But so, the churches had to limit their delegates or churches were limited to a certain number--.

Glen Taul

Well, every church is given a maximum delegates-.

Orlin Corey

Well--.

Glen Taul

--Depending on the membership.

Orlin Corey

For the first time this became very important--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Because sometimes they don't have --have a little trouble getting to their maximum, to attend the conference for several days for obvious reasons. It'd be through the week and lay people and--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And so--but this time, everyone was packed out and they had to turn people who wanted to be delegates, so then people just went along as observers. And the--the general estimate of attendance based on reading, the Courier Journal, the Western Recorder and other reports is that, where they might draw 800 or 900 people, they drew nearly 2,800 there. I mean, it overflowed on numbers of rooms to only hear over, see the speakers and so on and so forth. That was a measure of excitement that day.

Glen Taul

Do you think Campbellsville and Cumberland took advantage of this situation to push their agenda to become senior colleges?

Orlin Corey

There was an interesting--the of answers, yes. But they were beyond the junior college even then. Because the left hand sometimes does not know what the right foot is doing.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And in the previous year, they--both of those began--moved to be four-year college by approval of the state.

Glen Taul

I see.

Orlin Corey

What you've been, even the year before it was authorized. So then the next year, they were having a junior class here. And when this came--at this time, the senior class was just started.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Authorized at--but this concept. So, they had great reason to resist being cutback.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

It added is always popular, taking away something else.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

Well, anyway, there's blood then. [laughter] And I am certain that what happened here, happened in the same places. A massive organization, and telephone wires disintegrated in heat. [laughter] Who knows who knows, whatever. But they were there and were very effective. Now, I understand that the report suggested that both of those be preserved as institutions. But, the report was not up to date with that reality. It was looking on them still as junior colleges. And by implication, in the long run, Georgetown would have remained--would have become a feeder place---Cumberland. And then there's talk in that of one in western Kentucky because of the logic of the map. And that concept would tell you that it's like, in miniature, the State System of California, whatever--.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--In higher education.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

So all of that was projected. Well, this was dealt with. Of course, this was about but a plan. Those who were trying to preserve the concept I was referring to earlier, that there was obviously some logic to this and some merit. But they were trying to keep some of it alive, and lets the whole house be burned down in the reaction, the house was burned down. That's really what happened. But what really, I think really went wrong. For that larger vision to be looked at dispassionately and by others, or myself, too. Is the methods used. The--the secrecy, the years of speaking one thing here and another there. The manipulation, which is contrary to the concept of Baptist practice or American practice.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Or democratic practice in general. The methods undid the goal. And--.

Glen Taul

Once the truth was revealed.

Orlin Corey

--And the truth and--what was coming out is that it was apparently being hailed as a close secret to be slipped through. And the--then very likely, it would have slowly evolved, hadn't been adopted, and would have been modified on the way from here to the bank. Time and again, I imagine, that, okay, one can imagine all kinds of possibilities that would be difficult here. But meanwhile, they had already started at the other end, to receive they had land and there were other plans for expansion, and so forth. And now the outcome of that land the future there, we know, that did not turn out well, either.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Ultimately, but the hope there was that there would have been, and fundamentally the Georgetown Extension, which operated for a couple of years before it moved to become a different institution. Faculty from here traveled there. And they--that--that was going to transit--it meant to be the beginning. It was bridge building, is what it was, but the bridge didn't go anyplace eventually.

Glen Taul

What was the--when the report came out, the Courier Journal report came out, what was the reaction of the faculty? We already know about Shanklin's (??)

Orlin Corey

It was yes, yes. Shackling.

Glen Taul

Shackling.

Orlin Corey

Yeah. Well, it was--it was the usual division into three schools.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Those who were outraged for whatever reason, because of the methods, because they'd loved it here. Because of local associations, so many of the faculty here, have deep community roots from one or more generation. So, you had all of that working. Then you had those who were sort of in between and didn't quite know what to make of it.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And you had some who were advocates. But the advocate group was clearly much smaller than the others. And as this was either distorted in the heat of the moment, by passionate or misunderstandings, but fundamentally, people really knew much more about it than the leadership thought they did. [chuckles] Even though they knew some of it--

Glen Taul

Because the bits and pieces started filtering in through the--

Orlin Corey

--Yes, they have their own life.

Glen Taul

Yeah

Orlin Corey

Again, there's several years of things grow--. So some were not at all surprised. But but, aha, that's how this, oh, and so and so.There was, as I remember, one fact--of all the faculty meetings I went to in eight years at Georgetown, and seven years at another institution, later Centenary College of Louisiana, a very fine little liberal arts college. Slightly larger than Georgetown, but in the same tradition, Methodist school. The only faculty member meeting I remember of all of them was this one at Georgetown, which was the faculty meeting, that was just shortly before the meeting in Elizabethtown. And people there who had been on the fence, spoke and spoke. Clearly, they had allies, intelligence had been applied to this because the whole thing had been printed in the Courier Journal.

Glen Taul

Pause in tape. I need to get this thing, okay.

Orlin Corey

Anyway, by the time and this faculty meeting in that November, there had been five or six weeks, exposure just to the media. Have a chance to reflect and to look. And there were people--Dr. Carl Fields, of the history department, for example, who was a man who was very careful about his speech. And he wanted things to work, very positive man. Dr. Fields, rose and made an absolutely objective, quiet analysis of point by point and then clearly delineating those points that will be fantasy. And those that had some basis. And in just recent conversation with someone who was at the same meeting with I, refreshed memories, we both remembered this very clearly. And the--.

Glen Taul

Was that Dr. Hambrick?

Orlin Corey

Yes. [laughter] You said it. And, and others too. And a lady the other day at lunch, and was recalling some aspects of this.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And the--Dr. Eddleman always handled himself very well with those meetings. But in this case, he--under the pressure from one gentleman, who kept wanting to say that the language does not say this, the language says, ultimately was rather abrupt and said, "that's all right, old man. That's enough, old man. That's enough, old man. "

Glen Taul

Yeah. Dr. Eddleman said that to--.

Orlin Corey

Dr. Jones.

Glen Taul

Dr. Jones.

Orlin Corey

Dr. W.E. Jones.

Glen Taul

Dr. W.E. Jones.

Orlin Corey

That's right. Now, and another lady, you know, amd he said, "don't trust me?" To the faculty, because he could see there was anything but trust there. And one lady in the faculty said, "but why don't you trust us." And, you know, trust is with children, as with animals, is a matter of intuition. And children and animals are unerring in this [chuckles] and adults are too. Eventually, once we take off all the intellectual layers and rationalizations, we too have that same ability, if we will, but know when it's there, and not discounted it. That was the reality. By then, there was--those who were for, as I re--, there was a faculty vote then. And it was overwhelmingly, and it was a public vote, too. Not a secret vote, which again, one could have arguments both ways about that.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But, I should imagine private vote, now I think more would have been opposed than it would have, but people have to stand.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And they stood. And my recollection is it was two thirds to three quarters opposed. And there were a few who had the nerve to stand, since the pressure was then on them, very few, and a few others who've even then sat out. But that's the way that particular group. Meanwhile, but then the alumni association had weighed in a couple of weeks before, and issued a statement. And the Georgetown Women's Association had and all of these groups and the student body, by the way, The Georgetonian, which was edited then by a very abled student, Carol Hubbard, whose father was a good friend of the president and was an advocate in Louisville though, as a the minister there. The Georgetonian chose not to not cover the issue at all, for six weeks, which was a very political thing to do. [chuckles]. It was the only real story on campus for years. I mean, real story in the sense of world interest.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And they totally ignored it, until it was over. Then it was in the Kentucky Baptist reject, and then duck down into the leaves. It was very interesting to see. [laughter]

Glen Taul

Isn't that something.

Orlin Corey

But anyway, it was--.

Glen Taul

And this took place in '58.?

Orlin Corey

This was 1958.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

This was the fall of '58 into the November time.

Glen Taul

Now, I can't remember the date. Did the board of trustees meet before the--.

Orlin Corey

They had also met before this.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And most of them had known nothing of this. This is what I mean about the methods used. Undid many people who would have been neutral or more objective. But there was a general perception that they had that--that the matters underhand and indirect. And specifically, that was the understanding here. And a few of the people on the state committee, one in Lexington, I think, valiantly made an effort to--defend the public statement. But you could tell he was wavering.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And when it got to the convention, which I attended as an observer, they didn't need me as a delegate. They had lots of delegates. [laughter] They had people beating on the door to be delegates. [laughter] But anyway, as I recall, and that was a standing vote. And they counted, as they should have, in that kind of vote. And as I recall, I don't know how many people were authorized to vote, but it was probably 900, 800 or something.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Were real delegates.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Who had to wear certain insignia--.

Glen Taul

Credentials.

Orlin Corey

Otherwise, the visitors would just like, a dignitary. And anyway, some were dignitaries and others just stood into dignity. [laughter] You know, the Winston Churchill remark, he never knew any man who stood with dignity went anywhere. [laughter] Oh my. Anyway, as I recall, there were only 30 or 35 votes for--adopting that report.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And I later heard that that less, far less than half of the committee to whom it (??), voted for it.

Glen Taul

I see.

Orlin Corey

So lots of people changed votes for all the reasons people change vote.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

Dissuaded [makes uneasy noise] uneasy--.

Glen Taul

Public pressure of standing up with them--

Orlin Corey

--Public pressure of standing, yeah, whatever, whatever. But it was pretty thin. And now, it's all the difference between concept, which is one thing on paper. And then the perception of how it was undertaken.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

That's fascinating.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And particularly so, it seemed to me then and it does in retrospect. At the college, because there was an elaborate series of almost a triple game going on, it seemed to me, now in retrospect, and with some things I find, at that time. There was the official, then there was the subterranean, working to build the consensus for this move. And then there was the game of obfuscation, to conceal this or to conceal this. I remember--one young person and her fiance, but she was in one of the productions--stage productions we were doing at the time, and they had been home, which I think happened to be Elizabethtown, in this case, doesn't matter. You know, for the weekend to visit family and went to church, and Dr. Eddleman was the guest minister. And he preached about the need to have the greater university, Georgetown and Louisville the (??) center and all. And they came back reporting this and this is what happened in detail for three years. But I remember, they're saying this, and on that very next day, like the Tuesday they came back and reported this on the Monday from the day before. On the Tuesday the president issued a denial of saying such a thing from another quarter in the state, when challenges, all for Georgetown. It's that kind of.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

That's, that's what fed this here plus the--and then related to this, it's hard to figure just where it figured into it. But related to this man who was so dedicated and so certain of himself and his mission, was a constant sort of knawing at the campus life. The--the activities, the having Catholic music instead of hymns for the choir and such things as that.

Glen Taul

Now, what do you mean by that?

Orlin Corey

Well, it was Bach. He was a Catholic.

Glen Taul

Eddleman?

Orlin Corey

Yes. But, I mean from the presidential side.

Glen Taul

Oh--

Orlin Corey

--This sort of smiling at the event, but then later making or preaching against.

Glen Taul

okay, okay.

Orlin Corey

I mean, it was like people are going to read this.

Glen Taul

Yeah. In other words, he was talking out both sides of his mouth?

Orlin Corey

Oh, or three times.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

A very hidden--maybe amount here and there, I don't know. But it was very a interesting. So there wasn't--this is what I meant earlier, when I said, in many cases, the students were miles ahead of what the administration and leadership thought they were in this regard. And some of the faculty were too. Now, the faculty who lived only here, and only atttended here, and only noticed that they heard, would tend to be you know, indifferent, or undeterred. But so--so this sort of thing that went on and moreover, in time, the, the way certain events were renamed. And the BSU [Baptist student union] was particularly encouraged to duplicate and replicate music groups, to have their own in competition where and likewise to do plays in competition with. And it's very interesting.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Orlin Corey

That's way out in the outer edges. But--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

That is where students, particularly know this, that and this, in turn, did not print well with people who were aware of the college. As for the future of this, the thrust seemed to be very sectarian, and increasingly so, to sum it up.

Glen Taul

Did Eddleman speak at the convention?

Orlin Corey

No, he was not seen.

Glen Taul

He was not seen at all?

Orlin Corey

He was there listening in, a room.

Glen Taul

But he wasn't on the floor, though? Oh, no, he was not visible--. Okay.

Orlin Corey

--During the sessions. But he was there.

Glen Taul

Interesting.

Orlin Corey

There was a meeting with some of the committee or the committee the night before it was reported in the he was in town, but he was there, but not ever to speak for it.

Glen Taul

What about the--?

Orlin Corey

--Two people spoke for it, and there must have been, ultimately, they had to rule it out. Five or six against, in Elizabethtown, you know.

Glen Taul

The two people who spoke for it, were ymembers of the Georgetown trustees?

Orlin Corey

No, I don't think so.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

I don't think so.

Glen Taul

So, the trustees--

Orlin Corey

Because by then, the trustee--the trustees were overwhelmingly opposed to this. Now, Senator John Sherman Cooper was a trustee.

Glen Taul

Right. He knew nothing about it when he arrived. And Mr. Porter, first name, is it Ira? Ira.

Orlin Corey

Ira Porter, right and I rememberd in whose building, with honor we now sit.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

A banker, very responsible. Long-term association, he knew there was interested in the label (??) to do something and he knew that Georgetown. You know, they did, they knew the official things, that Georgetown had an extension there.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

How could you resist that? Surely that was fine.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And also took night classes in other places around central Kentucky too. Anyway, but he had no concept of this, until it hit in the Courier Journal.

Glen Taul

Yeah. What about--after the vote in Elizabethtown, of course that put a black eye in his administration, Eddleman's administration. What--

Orlin Corey

Well, he was--he accepted another position in about 48 hours.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

He had already covered his tracks.

Glen Taul

Okay. He knew what was--.

Orlin Corey

He went back to seminary.

Glen Taul

So that position was--

Orlin Corey

He was elected--he was elected to that presidency, approximately, was he that meeting? I don't remember the day of the week that the conference was held in Elizabethtown.

Glen Taul

It was probably in November. It wasn't No--it was in that month.

Orlin Corey

Yeah.

Glen Taul

But it was like in a--on a Wednesday or a Thursday or maybe a Tuesday. But that weekend, well, it was the--one of the Georgetown papers, The News, I think it was, maybe both the times it was The News. But, The News would come out one day different. One of them had, "Kentucky Baptists reject," however they did it. The other headline, "Dr. Eddleman offered position." Oh.

Orlin Corey

So that was known. Within--that known in a day, in Elizabeth, that he was--he had another position offered. And by the end of that week, this is where the days of the week may have some relevance. He was elected by the board and the (??) Stayed here through December, a month.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Started there January 1, in '59.

Glen Taul

Very good.

Orlin Corey

And just a final note, it is also clear that (??) had such certitude about what he did, and commitment. Would let us say, right, he did lots of personal notes, he was very good with this about people. It was one of his ways of working with people. He would write personal notes constantly to board members. [Phone rings]

Glen Taul

Excuse me. I need to start that again.

Orlin Corey

Sure you need to do that.

Glen Taul

Good now, go ahead.

Orlin Corey

Was it running?

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

Well, in in one occasion, and actually several but in one particular occasion, I'm remembering, the play was given. And the president wrote a note to that lady who was on board, who was a former student of Ms. Calhoun's. And I told her what a lovely play it was and how pleased they were of coruse. This lady knew another, naturally, another board members, since she was on the board. A lady friend of hers, in another part of the state. And happened to be calling on her at about the same time. And asking her if she'd seen the play that had such a lovely note praising it from Dr. Eddleman. It was well--they said, "you did? Well, in the note he wrote to me was that it looked bad," and he wrote a note absolutely condenming it and blasting it to her. That's when, if there was any doubt, certain board members had began to be--and this lady was very inclined to be. They were both inclined to be for Georgetown.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

She was very personally loyal too.

Glen Taul

Dr. Eddleman.

Orlin Corey

But, eventually, eventually it was one of those in that. I don't know what the vote was in the board, but I understand it was overwhelming rejection of it, which of course was a real rejection of him.

Glen Taul

Of the proposal to move Georgetown?

Orlin Corey

Yeah. Yeah.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Yeah. They immediate--strong statement against that and keeping Georgetown where it is.

Glen Taul

Yeah, I've I've noticed the--I don't remember the number, but I've noticed the vote in the trustees minutes. We can go right here.

Orlin Corey

Okay. Well, that would suggest, if not the detail, it would suggest the outcome.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And you would know more about that than I.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But, I understand it was overwhelmingly Nos. What--I didn't know what--did anybody vote for it or do you?

Glen Taul

I can't remember right now, I don't think there was hardly any personally?

Orlin Corey

It could hardly--it might have been, but not much.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Or it wouldn't have been.

Glen Taul

No, Dr. Hambrick was telling me that when you look into this, you need to pay attention to a--groupings of where they from. Where the trustees were from.

Orlin Corey

That's right.

Glen Taul

About that time.

Orlin Corey

That's right. It was--it was a fragmenting kind of time. But it was--it was the--it was the methods relationship.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And the way this fed into student life, and the faculty, which was very interesting. So there was a kind of screening and, I wouldn't go so far as to say it was an inquisition approach, but it had the scent of inquisition about it.

Glen Taul

It sounded like it was almost --machiavellian.--

Orlin Corey

That's well said.

Glen Taul

And--it's--.

Orlin Corey

It's that tradition--.

Glen Taul

--Strategy anyway.

Orlin Corey

It is not unknown in the world, it's the Ayatollah (?) complex, we might call it today. Which is always in the name of God, and high ends. And always well intended. There's no doubt of that. No doubt of that. But it's quite often so tunnel vision. And it's laser and--lasers can burn.

Glen Taul

Really it's--and in that way--you're really, from a spiritual standpoint, you're really excluding God from the whole process.

Orlin Corey

Well, you use a great assumption that you--.

Glen Taul

--That you know better.

Orlin Corey

--You are or--he was very fond in many prayers--other people spoke in the chapel to refute what they had said in his public prayers would often use the phrase, as said earlier this morning.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

We know that you know, so forth and so forth. No, it is--a well-known.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

It was still a pleasant place. I still--I'm not embittered about it.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

About the place. I'm still fascinated by how this could come about. But it undid itself, even if, possibly it should not have, had been handled in a wiser way, less rushed and less secretiv. More time spent in the persuasion, Chauncey Dailey (??), the editor of The Western Recorder which to me is a good way to conclude my remarks about this.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

Had an observation, which is he--learned early on he said that it takes a year to say howdy to Kentucky Baptists. [laughter] You can hardly close and or move seven or eight deeply-rooted educational institutions in six weeks. [laughter]

Glen Taul

Very true.

Orlin Corey

Well, anyway, I don't know how all of that is---most of that is opinion.

Glen Taul

Yeah but it's--.