Oral History Interview with Orlin Corey Part I

Glen Taul

This is an unrehearsed interview with Orlin Corey, professor of speech at Georgetown college from 1952 to 1959. Dr. Glen Taul, archivist the interview took place in the inter Learning Resource Center at Georgetown College on September 9th--2002, --[What I'm]--interested in, is the different issues that surround every college during the time. And some of them are things that you're taught for years researching through your book. But first of all, tell me when you come to Georgetown and how--why did you come to Georgetown? How did you find out about it?

Orlin Corey

I was finishing a master's degree in drama at Baylor University in the spring, early spring of 1952. Or winter. And at that time, I heard of the Southern Speech Association, which was meeting in Jackson, Mississippi that year. Now, whether they still exist 50 years later, I'm not sure but they weren't important at that time in the national scene. And I was advised it'd be good to go over there and seek a position. So in that time in my life, I was 26. I had been in the Navy the last two years in the Second World War, so a little behind by age. So I was about 26 at that time.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And Rena Calhoun was there from Georgetown College in Kentucky.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And I was just aware of that name, I didn't know anything. And she was looking for a person to come to the department I learned as and she was relying on her friend, Dr. Charles McLaughlin, (??) who headed the speech work at Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville. And so she knew him here in the state. She was relying on him for advice. I think I saw him in reference to a master's thesis I was working on and then he suggested I talked to her. So I did. And about a month passes, and I was invited to send a resume. And it all went at a very leisurely pace. And would like to have an interview with me. Well, the interview wasn't feasible until we got to June that year, a couple of months later, but everything seemed copacetic. So that was okay. The interview was because my wife Irene, by name at that time and herself, a four year teacher art at Baylor with same age with the difference in the Navy and all that, so a difference in that. But she'd been teaching there for four years at Baylor. And we were on our way to Europe for the summer, for a summer study. So we're driving with friends who were going with us, we came through, I was interviewed that afternoon by Rena Calhoun, by Chancellor Leonard Smith. And in the course of that interview, which went quite charming, he really conducted it because she had recommended him to me. And he was announced that as of that morning, their art department in the, in the form of the one person that was, had resigned.

Glen Taul

Oh

Orlin Corey

So, he interviewed Irene on the spot, the next hour while I was given a tour of the campus. We were both offered the jobs before we left, and we signed and left Georgetown with contracts to start teaching here that fall. Now, that's a long, unexpected answer.

Glen Taul

My goodness. You mean, so you never did meet the president before you were hired--

Orlin Corey

No I never met Dr. Hill until I arrived in September.

Glen Taul

And what was your impression of him?

Orlin Corey

Oh, he's fine. A very much a--a Virginia Pparson, I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but in a formal sense, almost Episcopal sense of presence about himself and certainly Baptists too, but I mean, very reserved and imposing appearance and good voice and was very aware of the social amenities of the world--that was quite clear in the way the table was set, the way they talk--went and the way everything was. But Chancellor Smith had the responsibility for employing--

Glen Taul

Is that right?

Orlin Corey

--Or did at that time?

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

I can not speak before that moment, but that's how I met him.

Glen Taul

And then What year was this?

Orlin Corey

1952.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

So in September, we came here, excuse me--

Glen Taul

Oh, no, that's alright.

Orlin Corey

--In very early September and moved into an apartment on Military street upstairs above where? Coleman?--Arnold lived.

Glen Taul

Is that right?

Orlin Corey

So there began a long friendship. Yeah.

Glen Taul

And what were you hired to do? Now, you were hired by in--the--in the speech department.

Orlin Corey

It was the speech department.

Glen Taul

And I know Mrs--go ahead--

Orlin Corey

Well Rena Calhoun was--was the speech department.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

However they had, it grown to the point that they had a debate person and Mrs. Dorothy Melzer was very capable, very capable with them did a superb job with it. And these things had--ahd naturally grown, it's the history of the speech world, that they came out of English, used to be English in speech, then speech appeared. This is in the history of that bit of the academic world. And then the drama, if it was allowed, either started in English as a literary study, and sometimes crept out onto stage and began in this case, it came through speech. So, in the course of time, in '54, this had become a Speech and Drama Department, which meant instead of the, the speech major having one or two drama courses, the speech and drama major had courses of both kind of a hybrid and a perfectly compatible mix.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And so Dorothy Melzer was already there. And the student radio station had just started, but this was really student operated, but was under the general supervision of the speech department. I was brought in to help be technical assistant in doing the plays, which she would direct. And I believe they had directed two plays a year at that time and Lewis Auditorium was a very new facility, then even Giddings Hall--been there maybe a couple of years by then as a stage.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And so I was brought in for that purpose, and would also teach some basic courses. And then a stagecraft course, came with that, which was a new course coming with me.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And then I was, I sought permission to direct in a different way--to direct a, a play, that would be toured to churches, which seemed to be a logical extension from a Georgetown College Speech Department. This was allowed, and then also to form a community-based children's theater, using the college students to help lead them. So in that sense, I became involved in from the beginning, in some of the drama side, but I came as a speech teacher with that responsibility.

Glen Taul

Oh. Okay. How did you teach speech--at that time? What method or approach did you take? Was it lecture? Was it engaging the students in interaction in the class?

Orlin Corey

It was--yes, it was basically, it was rooted in the well, historically--in the old Greek sense of rhetoric.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Certain objectives and clarity and research and facts. But, constantly on the challenge of they would give a speech, a theme would be announced, and they would prepare a two, three, four, hardly ever more than five minutes speech in that particular take on that particular subject. As such as the cliche of the time would be, what I did on my summer vacation.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Yeah.

Orlin Corey

It could start from there. But then as their interests appeared, and the whole sense of the logic and preparation of this, of, of the of the speeches worked, speeches of persuasion, speeches of information, speeches of those categories were developed. So it was constantly a theory and then practice on their part. As I recall, it's been some years since I did this, I did this for several years. I think with me, in the course of the semester, they did eight speeches.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And--which kept them pretty busy as these kept growing and requirements.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Somewhat research topics, obviously, connecting back again to the library and so forth. So that was a gentle approach on the--on the speech, then oral interpretation would be another side of this, which is simply, what it implies, reading aloud.

Glen Taul

Was that a new feature in the 50s?

Wel--no, no, no, that--that really came out of the old schools of rhetoric. And at one time, was called expression in the 1880s and 90s, just before I was born. I can persuade some people now I remember when that was. [laughter] And they believe me, which is more startling, they--the joke disappears. But that--the infusion of that side, which is clearly a child of, ultimately of public speaking, and but also the stage. So here we are, the analysis of literature. And how do we present this effectively to an audience, beyond our own research and background? Something I personally continue doing constantly.

Glen Taul

Don't they call this--

Orlin Corey

--About to do this.

Glen Taul

Don't they call that oral interpretation? Yeah,

Orlin Corey

Well, at that time, it was called, it was expression in the 19th century, it became oral interpretation and the courses were called, or interpretation courses,

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And usually to something called Interp, in the vernacular.

Glen Taul

Yeah--

Orlin Corey

--To interpret one and two--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--And then you could have advanced and the full title of catalog (??) would be oral interpretation,

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

To make the distinction between the written and the--

Glen Taul

And this might be--include poetry or

Orlin Corey

--Poetry

Glen Taul

---Or diagloue--

Orlin Corey

--Rrhetoric, possibly dialogue, your raw materials would be any any literary form that was meant to be shared aloud. That would be poetry. Public Address, I mean Webster, Daniel Webster, Lincoln, Wilson, all the material, Gladstone in the history of that, and then in more recent times, Roosevelt and Churchill and so forth. And so that would be part of and many would be--lawyers were advised and took, often to great advantage, then they would often shift over to the debate side, which have--also had some courses. So there, they got to do it, which I think was wonderful for them to do.

Glen Taul

Now, today, they have a whole--the whole thing is called forensics?

Orlin Corey

--Yes, yes. Or whatever. Or communication today.

Glen Taul

Yeah, that's the big umbrella.

Orlin Corey

But, that's the current umbrella--is communication skills--department or whatever.

Glen Taul

Here--it's called Communication Arts.

Orlin Corey

Okay. All right.

Glen Taul

Which, under that umbrella, you've got drama, you've got speech, you've got debate.

Orlin Corey

You probably have television now--

Glen Taul

Television.

Orlin Corey

--And film--cinema. Yeah. Which also crept in through basically, again, out of the old theater, really, the acting out or the showing forth of what the ideas are called. Now, this is all--what has happened at Georgetown is, is root and branch of the history of these fields as they've evolved through the country. There wasn't anything distinctive about the way it appeared here, they were simply following the practice of the time.

Glen Taul

Well---when you came here, at what stage of development--Georgetown.

Orlin Corey

It was just the speech department at that time.

Glen Taul

Okay. So--

Orlin Corey

It was free of English. It was--it had come out of English here.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Which is in the in the great in the tradition, whether it's great or not the tradition of that field.

Glen Taul

Of course, in the 19th century, the curriculum was rhetoric.

Orlin Corey

That's right.

Glen Taul

I mean, it was--and rhetoric was infused in every subject.

Orlin Corey

Of course. Yes. And classes were taught that way.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

But eventually, other approaches evolved, simply because there's room for them, and there's no need for them. But anyway, in the course of that time, then the drama, the radio, moved into that, just as then the television subsequently did. As did the--

Glen Taul

You want me to get you some water?

Orlin Corey

I think I'm okay at the moment. Thank you. Anyway, so I was involved in that side, but also, the art interpretation courses, the fundamentals of speech course, or public speaking, one, or I forget how they termed it at the time. And I was doing that level than the stagecraft. And then a year or so then there was a beginning acting class. And after a couple of years, it moved on to be accepted as a speech and drama approach. So, a few more courses were added, and the major could do a pretty good balance of all of them. Or could also lean more now, let's say on the debate and the forensic side, or lean more toward the oral interpretation, the stage side, they had three choices.

Glen Taul

Was what, from your judgment? Was Georgetown behind the trends or was it in the middle of the trend? Or was it--why you--I'm--

Orlin Corey

My impression is it was very much in the the general movement of that part of the field, across the country, in terms of its reputation, and work. What I mean in the general movement was, the way it was structured. It was very much in what went on it was in the way that went on then.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

But, in the practice--the debate people, of which was certainly true at Baylor in my background there were terrific, and had high reputation and in the state and the region. And often, you know, they could take on Ohio State or Indiana University or whatever, as equals. But, certain teams in certain times could do this. So the size of what you came from wasn't necessarily proof that you will be better than the people that came from a little, a little place. And that achievement was also true in it became true on the drama side, in the 50s, but in several different ways. And so the drama programs in the state in the 50s in the colleges, the University of Kentucky. Let's see, University of Louisville had some but not as much. It was all--a little more. But and but Centre [College] and Transylvania tended to be about the same scale of things for the drama side. But in the 50s, all of them grew that way into more activity. There was a statewide festival at that time, that they University of Kentucky sponsored for plays.

Glen Taul

Oh, for plays.

Orlin Corey

And specifically shifted it then to Shakespeare productions and would have a Shakespeare Festival and the Georgetown production that--Rena Calhoun had started the annual Shakespeare several years before that time. About four years before, and the spring I was there, it was as you, like it, was chosen by her here. And she became, and small wonder, ill that winter. It was a time of much flu and so forth that particular season, and she had her duties as she--she was forming a Dean of Women too.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And she had just stepped up, but she was still involved.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

She lived in Rucker Hall, there was no way go--to escape the fact that I'll go see Mrs. Rena about this or that. A well as the speech department, and so forth. And so I stepped in at her request, it was necessary to to finish directing that play. And then we took it to the University of Kentucky. So I had an intimate sense of how to do--what we did. We had a--we had three weeks to rehearse, she had a two week start, and we had three additional weeks to bring it together. And though nobody officially judged who, who was best, the audience reaction was overwhelming. The Georgetown production was the best received. I'm sorry to say the university stopped having that that year.

Glen Taul

Oh. [laughter]

Orlin Corey

Many years later, when I'm directing the American College Theatre Festival from the Kennedy Center, we saw the same thing happening. If--in the festival in regions, a smaller college would beat say the University of Washington--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--Or Yale.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

No Yale, no University of Washington the next year. Because after all, the right talent at the right moment--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--Can go anywhere. The song--of acting or speaking, it's obviously true. It hurts the reputation of those who--

Glen Taul

About what year was that? When all this---

Orlin Corey

Well, this as you like, it was in that first year--that was this--

Glen Taul

--In '53?--

Orlin Corey

--The winter of 1953. I came September of '52.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Right. And all of that helped both Centre and it helped Transylvania and Georgetown to help justify more activity on the state side.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

They were beneficial. I don't mean in any way to, to, to deny with that little laugh, but this did not have meaning at the university, of definitely did. It was very good for them to do this. They did it for several years.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

That was the last year they did it though.

Glen Taul

Okay. So you've made--now is this--when Mrs. Calhoun was sick and--and you step in to help her. Did you--did your responsibilities start increasing if regard to the maskrafters

Orlin Corey

Well, I had to direct that play.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

My requirements were with that--.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Specifically that play.

Glen Taul

That play.

Orlin Corey

And theoretically, the same relationship continued the next year and that she directed the two mainstage plays. But by then, the touring play had come about, which I've just alluded to.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

In that '52-53 year, which went extensively and was well received. So much so, this became--must have become an annual feature. And that piece would be staged on the campus first, which became a third major production. So in effect, the maskrafters had two directors at that time.

Glen Taul

Oh, okay.

Orlin Corey

In the beginning, the concept of the church play was not so much--it was just another activity would be directored.

Glen Taul

It was almost like an outreach tool--

Orlin Corey

Right, it was an outreach concept, but that was a very good thing for many reasons, very good for students. Because they would, they would have an experience quite different from six intense weeks on a major production here on the campus, and then put it behind them, they would have let us say, because these are shorter plays, maybe four intense weeks of rehearsal, and then they would have to revive it in different places, about every two or three weeks for six months. It was a real experience. And I'm convinced that some of the remarkable people that appeared through that time really grew because they had that challenge on top of their other challenges in the department in debate or another place, because there was time to grow and to learn things about themselves and about the audience and about the craft.

Glen Taul

And the way the curriculum was set up at that time, were most all the students have to participate in some way in the speech or speech curricula?

Orlin Corey

Well, I think there wasn't a requirement that people take, oh, there was a requirement that everyone on campus take a drama appreciation course. That was also in the beginning, there were like four sections of that. So I did two of those. And then the next year did three of them. After that I did all in addition to, you know, the beginning speech course, in addition to and see see how the load would go on, and I'm not complaining, it was pleasant. But casting in plays, then was campus wide, it was not limited to the department. Okay. And I don't know if they can continue that here or not, not. Noqw, the fashion today is to not do that. But I think it's a wonderful thing, to bring in the football player to do something if he wants to. And sometimes he's great with--

Glen Taul

--I'm not aware of it being done that way today.

Orlin Corey

It's--the tendency now it's a little like, departments of music evolved, so that those [who] are in their ensembles, are studying in there. That which is very nice--

Glen Taul

I know that Centre College, I have attended plays there. They will, at certain times they might draw in, like if they need kids parts. So they'll draw in community, kids.

Orlin Corey

Yeah, from the community.

Glen Taul

Or they might draw--sometimes they might draw in somebody from the community, invite somebody.

Orlin Corey

We did some of that for the same reason, for small children. But, there was a tradition here again, and this was Ms. Rena's is doing and wise, it's a very savvy, crafty, foxy, charming lady. [laughter] She'd been here a while she understood lots of things. When she did the Shakespeare, she, she first started, the first Shakespearean play would have been done here. Which what's the well--they made the--the they established the new tradition in. That first year we had a tradition and sustained it. And I think it went on--I don't know, maybe seven or eight years until I left and then I'm not sure. There was one then--thing it probably became an occasional thing. But in any case, in the very beginning, she learned that Dr. George Redding, who was one of the original maskrafters in 1924, and loved Shakespeare, and loved the stage. He came over and he played Polonius in that first Hamlet production.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Orlin Corey

And so he played a part in every one of those. And then, as you like it, he played Jacques. You know, he'd pretty much pick his part. [laughter[ And so you had--had a sense of age casting and that--which was terrific for the college student to work with. Because he and such others--a few others would appear too. When the Importance of Being Earnest was the first production of the maskrafters in 1924.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And that was started by a man named--Professor James or Jimmy Moreland. And his widow was alive at that time and lived in what was then called faculty apartments across the street from--it may still be there. I just don't know what's around now, fifty years after this time.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But, Mrs. Moreland, we made a point of meeting her and talking with her and inviting her to mass crafter events. And when we got to that '54 production and the (??) of course did that again, they had revived this every 10 years. And the tradition was that every 10th year which they started, the first time it was 10 years old was in '34. The one who had played maybe Cecily or somebody else in that, came back 10 years and played Lady Bracknell and the one in '34 was Lady Bracknell in '44. And that lady came back--Mrs. Marchman (??) I think her name was--in '54. And played the role again. So, there was some of that tradition here always, which is, I think, a very rich kind of thing to do for a department of this size.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And so yes, we had a some of the age side, but what I meant is, the open casting, we would announce a Shakespeare play ,and anybody on the campus could come audition, it was not limited to majors or minors in the department.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And that is no longer quite the practice, in many departments. They tend to be more like the schools of music now that way. But the advantage is that department reached out by those events into all of those different houses. It--it helped change an attitude.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

All the dorms, it wasn't just a group of people, the drama clique, going around like this, you know.

Glen Taul

Yeah, yeah.

Orlin Corey

It was--everybody was involved. And on one occasion, when we were doing--I forget which of the Shakespeare plays it was, it may have been the Macbeth, we asked the--all the boys to grow beards. For many reasons, it saved makeup time, but it's also great advertising. [laughter] And it was it was a batch. They even got talked against in some in the letters to the editor. By these people [laughter] these--knows brotherhood types to use a reference to Baylor.

Glen Taul

Oh, yeah.

Orlin Corey

It was like--oh they wouldn't use that phrase here, but it was the--same implication.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

What's going on here, you know. [laughter] The age of crew cuts and they're growing beard a down here and had crew cuts up here. But anyway, it made a great stage picture.[laughter] So it worked through the campus. I very much believe in that.

Glen Taul

Yeah, it's kind of neat. Like. What--tell me more about the church plays. Is this where you develop, like the Book of Job?

Orlin Corey

Well, ultimately, that grew out of that phenomenon. The concept was to do a play that was always meant to be mobile. In other words, it'd be costumes and actors and not sets.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And so it could be staged with a minimum of difficulty here and budget was ever a problem.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

Incidentally, Ms. Calhoun had seen to it, probably Professor Moreland before her. I never knew him, he was dead, before I came along. But the maskrafters has always had their own funds That is, they had to make them. But they were administered by their student officers. And I could still hope that's true. But I daresay some administrators have been wise enough to stop that.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

There's a wisdom, the other words, a great wisdom in doing it, though, because it's their money, and they work for it and use it better. And so it's their money that's invested to stage the next play. So they tend to be very responsible about it, and work extra hard to make it work. Anyway, we had very little money for a new piece like this, because we were planned only for two plays in here. So it was done very lightly, budget wise. And that particular first production was called Job. As a matter of fact, and it was a version adapted by Amy (??) at the time and she had done this 20 years before, in Michigan, and then here and there. And I was familiar with that. And we staged that. And we did it mostly in old rags that were dyed, nice colors. And, and a little simple platform smaller than this table. A few steps that we could move in a trailer and then take to church and set on a lectern, not a lectrern, but on the platform.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And, and then a few portable lights, which was difficult to manage at the time, but with a budget in the background, we were able to do this. And we started this by notifying, I think we went to, I don't remember, maybe the registrar at the time. Fully (??) Schneider possibly, and said, "what towns or cities or are there churches that you think might be interested in, you know." And these young people were from certain places, too, which automatically meant certain possibilities were open. And if a church could manage this, and what they had to do was pay for the travel.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Of the--in that case, I think it was a caravan of four cars and trailer.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Four cars and a trailer. About 25 people and the trailer for the platform. And this and that--could put us up overnight on the Saturday night because we could hardly travel the day, when you think of the size of the state.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Do it and come back again.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

So, spend the Saturday night in their congregation, however, they housed us. So, they'd put us up and feed us. And they paid our expenses. And there was a nominal royalty for the play maybe $20 a performance. Whatever it was Lumus (??) asked at the time. Is what we paid for it.

Glen Taul

I mean for the whole church to pay that twenty dollars.

Orlin Corey

Yea, so, they would they would be responsible for the travel of the troop, the hospitality and putting them up in whatever, that might be $100 or $200 for the church total.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

You know. Yeah, well, it was this item, at that time. But by word of mouth in the first three months, this began to take off to the point we had to start saying no and being very selective because we didn't want to go more often than every three weeks.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

As a real pusher, and particularly when--we we're going to Paducah.

Glen Taul

Oh!

Orlin Corey

On the roads of the time.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Orlin Corey

No--no interstates.

Glen Taul

Two lane roads--hardly ever.

Orlin Corey

And we were invited to Indianapolis.

Glen Taul

Oh, yeah.

Orlin Corey

Cincinnati, all in the first year. And because I had some contacts in Waco, and in Texas and had developed a program within a large church of drama, which was both drama secular and drama religious. It had both sides to it, for recreation and for worship purposes. It was very easy. And I did, we set up a tour down there at the end of spring. So we all took off down that a-way for 10 days and played in Houston and played in Austin and played in Dallas and Waco and Oklahoma City. Listen, they were hooked. [laugher] We all--we all were exhausted, but also great experience. Well now, think at the size of the campus. People kept coming, they wanted to be involved. The next year we did a very small play. We did Christopher Fry's A Sleep of Prisoners Okay well anyway--we did the--we did that piece in the chapel. Because the--the--the soldiers are captured by an enemy. And it's their dreams at night, which are biblically connected, related they're Cain and Abel, David and Absalom, so quite--a quite a beautiful piece. And that piece went so well that we really had a third on campus major production. It ran two weekends in the chapel, and thus did not interfere with those auditoriums. And the plans for the fall there. Made some money, which helped--helped all sides, you know, including the program got to know us and real advantages to that attitude. And then I had a little caucus with Ms. Calhoun, we decided, well maybe better do a play for touring to churches, because it developed that one of these fellows really couldn't travel.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And because he had a church. He was a religion major. And he had a church, Bill Parsons by name. Oh, so we did every man, back to four cars and a trailer and about 20 people and I did a version of that. And again, we had to hold this down as to how often we went. And then subsequently, year by year, there would be a major on campus production in the chapel, which meant I was choosing pieces that matched, that fit.

Glen Taul

That--that site.

Orlin Corey

--That fit that venue? Yes, Dorothy Sayer's "The Zeal of Thy House." Not well known here but was a second play at the Canterbury Festival in the 30s. About William Hassan's, who started Canterbury Cathedral. Oh, and so it's that story.

Glen Taul

That sounds like an interesting one.

Orlin Corey

An interesting one in that chapel with two Archangels who worked from the balcony up above. They had great ladders that they descend. It was something to learn to descend it forward, you know, as they were talking and soforth.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And interesting piece and it worked like a charm. It ran to I think it was six nights to a Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

Glen Taul

And there was another major play going in--

Orlin Corey

Not at the same time--

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

But, it would be a building or rehearsing or.

Glen Taul

Oh, right.

Orlin Corey

Budgetary considerations and space were problems.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And we didn't throw that one (??) So we started doing one on campus.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And and then we would do one for touring.

Glen Taul

Now what--now What year was this taking place?

Orlin Corey

Well-

Glen Taul

--When that developed--

Orlin Corey

'53. Well, you see, this grew out of the "Job", which was '52-53-'53-'54 and then '54-'55 and we had to use leave in England, from June of '55 to September '56. And things down shifted a bit. But it came back with big force. They kept the Shakespearean play, they kept a number of things going. And by then Lewis Auditorium was doing I think three or four productions a year, which is about enough. When you have no space to build things

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

I mean, it's complicated.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Everything you did had to be done on that stage.

Glen Taul

So, Wilson Auditorium was constructed when you came here?

Orlin Corey

It was here before I came--

Glen Taul

--Just be--

Orlin Corey

--Just before I came.

Glen Taul

Just before you came, so it was practically new.

Orlin Corey

Yes, that adaptation was practically new and then we the maskrafters, who had a lot of autonomy, we thought, you know, have our own money.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

Decided we need--need to make some improvements in ther.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

As we did need to. And so with student help, and we had some students who knew metalwork. Using our own money, we put in a lighting board on the side on pipes and went up. So you have a second floor over here off stage. It wasn't as big as this table, the whole platform we built up so people can work on it, and the door could open and leave with a good work above on the lights, which says I'm standing over here in the middle of everything.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Because the platforms made for speech, really. And this gave it a chance. And then up above is the chemistry department, which sometimes it'd leak strange smelling things through the floor. [laughter] And so in front of the audit out in front they had that, we took a saw, we knew how the beams ran.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And cut--and they were widely space, just from one beam all the way across because of greater beams.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--To the next one. And then put in pipework to hold lights and wired it

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

So we had a front beam, which was essential otherwise, you couldn't get any light in anybody's face until the inside picture frame. This way, you had great light, they could--we could build out to the auditorium for a small extension, which is great for (??). We did all of this this on our own hook? And one day, just when we sawed through the--the hole this way? Brad Jones who was, you know, more or less I guess he was a business manager then. And walking through and he had--he was apapletic--poor Brad. [laughter] You know, "what's going on--you're wrecking this building who's behind this (??) court?" You know [sighs] Well, we were so far into it, we had to go ahead and do it.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And it was the club's money and the work was being you know, it was--it was initiative, it was the way they build the building, I'll bet you originally, but this was 1954. And that would have been 1829--or '30. [laughter]

Glen Taul

It was 1841.

Orlin Corey

Okay, '48 or what.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

It was a big difference. Anyway, we modified it, and then changed the seats. We took out--unbolted to make a little center aisle. So you'd have to walk all the way through all of these narrow seats. You had a center space, we lost maybe 24 seats that we've gained about 18 of them back because we came close to the front.

Glen Taul

I see.

Orlin Corey

So, the center outside as and that's the way we left it. I don't know, it's probably not that way now. It may have been torn out by now. I don't know.

Glen Taul

Oh, you mean--

Orlin Corey

Lewis Auditorium.

Glen Taul

Oh yeah, it's the--maybe it's called--the administration building.

Orlin Corey

And so there's no Lewis Auditorium. No, well.

Glen Taul

It's out of there.

Orlin Corey

It wasn't hard to tear it out. I can tell you. [laughter] It was pretty lightly done. And I don't I mean us, originally, they just laid some risers in for seating. --When they did it. Anyway, that was the home of the maskrafters. But because we also had the other--we claimed the chapel from time to time and got it booked in for always in the autumn before the music program was too well established. As the traffic it allows you across the street. So we got into the building at the right time and got out again.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Orlin Corey

So that would do that.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

But anyway, all of that evolved pretty much in those three years '52, the fall of '52 through the spring '55.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And then that program continued to pace when we returned from leave in the fall of '56. Until Well, I resigned from directing the mass craftors, which was never in my contract, my contract was teach.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

I resigned from that in the fall of '58. For sufficient reason, I think with the administration. And, and continued teaching through the end of the year to fulfill that part of it. But that program, more or less continued, I'd say to the spring of '59, then it was someone else's responsibility and whatever. I really don't know what happened after that.

Glen Taul

Was there--was there ever a feeling on your part of limitations of what kind of plays you could--

Orlin Corey

Well--

Glen Taul

--Produce--

Orlin Corey

-- I was always conscious of where I was. And I didn't disagree with that. But I also had a very broad sense of the of the material. And you know, some of the Shakespearean plays were a little near the bone for some people, I can tell youn [laughter] Indeed. So I had no sense of--I was just aware of, but I refuse to let everything--well, but inside the parameters that I had recognized, we claimed complete freedom. And when had a little trouble with a little of that occasionally, a very minor rumble twice--that went alright. But I have--I need to answer--finish one question about, you said "Job." The plays that went to churches, caused considerable awareness. And interestingly enough, when we were in Louisville, we were reviewed--interview--reviewed by the--both the Louisville Times and the [Louisville] Courier-Journal. Cincinnati would be reviewed by The Enquirer and so forth. At another time, I don't think they would do that today with plays from colleges, but in the 50s, they did.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And this was very good for Georgetown. Very good in many ways. And many people at the college were aware that and I think some were indifferent to that. But obviously people, all kinds of people. But, one of the productions. I think it may have been in a Methodist Church because we played in churches of all denominations. We generally played Baptists because of the connections of our students.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

But we also played in Episcopal, Disciples of Christ, Presbyterian, Methodist, one or two Catholic, one Jewish Temple?

Glen Taul

Oh!

Orlin Corey

Sure.

Glen Taul

Interesting.

Orlin Corey

--You bet there's a lot of interest in exchanging a lot of these things. Anyway, and so that--the program reached beyond the so called parameters. Nobody gave us parameters. So we went where we were invited. But one of the plays was reviewed, when we played in a Methodist Church in Cincinnati, by The New York Times, which was nice. We learned of that about a week after--the review was a week later.

Glen Taul

Is that right?

Orlin Corey

It was the instant wire service. Stuff you might have today.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And I learned of it the week after it came out. You know, it was not--we were pleased. Now then, fast speed. Irene and I had a years leave to study abroad, left here in early June '55, and came back at the end of August '56. And the shank of that time from mid-September, into June, was in London. And I studied at The Central School of Speech and Drama and she at The Central School of Arts and Crafts and here in there, and she was working in design and cost--historic costume and painting and I was into advanced directing. And was working on a possible book for the field, ultimately decided not to do. I felt--the book had been done.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

After I got through with it. But anyway, I did it. It was good for me. And I researched this at--other plays at the British Drama League Library, which is the major library, the biggest library of theater work in England, and quite a good one there in Euston Square, in London. And over there I went to establish my credentials and get permission and so forth. And discovered that the executive director of the British Drama League at that time was E. Martin Brown, who was the producer who really had discovered T.S. Eliot and Christopher Fry and later Robert Bolt, as a man for all seasons to name some pieces--

Glen Taul

Oh, yes--

Orlin Corey

--People and always interested in drama of religious dimension. And I had written him for information, I was doing my master's thesis.

Glen Taul

Oh.

Orlin Corey

So I had a written sense, I was quite aware who he was. He was there but he recognized my name and said, "come by and have tea," and I did and we talked and he said you know, "you did quite an interesting play, I read in The New York Times. " Just then he went to his (??) and he pulled this out and he said, "Oh yeah." He-"tell me about that program." Well, out of that came the following. No more details. After--across the next six months, he approached the Religious Drama Society of Britain, which he was the chairman of. And the and because he knew for me, this was from--Baptist related, he went to the English Baptist Union and talked to F--Dr. F. Tombly (??) Lord, which is a great name for ministers, and Dr. Tombly (??) Lord. I love it. A marvelous man and talked to them both. And came to me and said, "If you,"--that is the Georgetown you--

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--"Can create a play to be performed in churches with your college troop and can bring them to us in the summer of 1958." This was two plus years ahead, when he was talking to me, this is early '56, he's telling me this. Then, the British Drama Society, in combination with the English Baptist Union will help the tour and then the British Drama League, if you will also choose a companion piece for the amateur theatre. So it's (??) amateur theatre.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

They will to about one, and he said, "that preferably should be, of course Americana." And he said, "ideally probably musical, or of that audience." And it--for the churches, he said, "your own choice, we would recommend you do something biblical when you consider where we're going." And then he said, and "you know, this will be very helpful to us, because it is still against the law in England." They said this in 1956, for plays--biblical plays to be performed in churches.

Glen Taul

Is that right?

Orlin Corey

This goes back to the 1500s. You're getting rid of the excesses.

Glen Taul

--Of the Catholic Church.

Orlin Corey

Well--of the church.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But the plays of the church.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

The church--be--it was the Catholic, but they threw them out because they were doing all kinds of things. And things that--

Glen Taul

To ban them.

Orlin Corey

Yeah. And they got rid of them. Well, that's still on the statute books, or it was then.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And he said, "but in this era of good feeling, and after the Second World War, and that your're yanks," and he said, "that's fine, because you won't know that and we'll look the other way" [laughter]. And he said, "it will help the precedent, because we need to have the right to do this again." T.S. Eliot's Murder in the Cathedral was never given in a church in England--

Glen Taul

I see.

Orlin Corey

--Until the 1970s. Made its way through the theaters and with great success. And of course, it's magnificent too and it's in a church, or a cathedral setting, ideally. Anyway. So we did all that. And out of that, that's because of the touring. I went back, I spent a year--I wasted a year looking for plays. And most of the plays written for churches are really terrible.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

They're--they're sermons, they're well int--they come from the heart.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

But like we were talking at lunch today, you know, they, they have so much to deliver, they can't go anywhere. They're just kind of hung up in that. And so I ultimately did my own version. And this time I went to Job and did my own.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And used the authorized version was the one we had done originally was modern English when we toured. But I trusted the multimedia spy, but the modern American versus what we used in 1952. But for this one, we went back to the authorized version, because I knew the English audience would know and love--

Glen Taul

They'd recognize it.

Orlin Corey

Yes, the King James language or the authorized version, and we did--and always did that with the Job after that. And the Job we did was quite a different show than than when we did before.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

The other was in rags and, and kind of Bedouin bright colors, you know, just. [laughs] And this was highly ritualized and stylized to belong in those beautiful churches.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Basically, it was chanted and spoken, and declaimed, and so forth. And so that took two years to develop. And then it was first staged as the annual in the chapel piece that we were doing--

Glen Taul

Here

Orlin Corey

In the chapel. And for the homecoming weekend--

Glen Taul

--Okay--

Orlin Corey

--In October, he gave us--scheduled for three performances, I think we held over to the next weekend and gave a fourth one. And we will continue to shape it. We went on, we took it to the Kentucky General Association, which met in Harlan that year.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Which is where they passed a very fateful committee thing to do a study and--

Glen Taul

Oh, for the--

Orlin Corey

Yeah.

Glen Taul

--Moving of the colleges and so forth.

Orlin Corey

It was overlapping timelines on these.

Glen Taul

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Because I do believe time is a cure yes.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

All of these times is spinning you have--

Glen Taul

I know.

Orlin Corey

And we did all of that checking around and revising, and then come the next spring. That piece, having profited by that and having had the shakedown, was tuned a bit by me and then I chose a cast of five graduates and five promising undergraduates. So we'd have the--

Glen Taul

So, it was a cast of ten?

Orlin Corey

It was a cast of ten.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And this is where five who had previously graduated, but were extra people, Bill Parsons, and and so on and so on were brought in. Jenny Champion. And then of the younger people who were on the campus like a Warren Hammock (??) and a Jean Diskey (??) and so forth. So it was blending the experience of both.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And then we'd rehearse the piece here. Took it to two churches and WHAS [Louisville TV station] television before we took off for Canada, and eventually-- finally after the Brussels Fair, then were in England for that month.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And with that, peace we commissioned another piece. Remember, the British (??)

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

--piece.

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

A folk piece. Commissioned Jim Peyton (??), who was a graduate from here, a speech and drama man, and played the Job in the modern language version that went to Texas. He was teaching in this area then, I think he later went to work for the state, at the Department of Education in Frankfort. Now he retired and I think he probably lives around here.

Glen Taul

Yeah. Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Anyway, and you may know him, I don't know.

Glen Taul

No.

Orlin Corey

But anyway, Jim did for us his version of John Henry, a musical version, John Henry, the railroad man. And we did that highly styled with songs, folk songs, and he played the guitar. And was is the singing man who struck that and then B- songs. And John Henry was, you know, he was, the night club flouzies ate him up.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And all of that. So there was a nightclub scene.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And we had a little [makes disapproving noises] had that some of that and the president of the college at that time well, it was known that the run was over.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And and then we were going to revive because with fitting in people, experienced people were coming in to join, so they had to be cast in that, just like they were in the Job. So that was to have a trial production too and we learned the day before that a committee of four trustees were coming to take a look at it to--to close it down and ban the tour.

Glen Taul

Oh, really? The John Henry--

Orlin Corey

They had to close down and ban the whole tour. Because the John Henry was going where it wasn't fitting to be-- represent the college. Okay. So, we just decided it was ready, packed the show and they never saw it.

Glen Taul

So, you left before they came?

Orlin Corey

Well, we didn't do the show, we didn't leave till we left. But we didn't do a public show. We just had another rehersal. You know, closed door work so it--it was a sweet pretty little folk show. And but the Job piece got all the attention, for lots of reasons.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

The other was (??) in a certain tradition of a small, kind of folksy musical.

Glen Taul

Now is--do you think that the--the objections to the John Henry piece by these trustees is because it involved a Black man?

Orlin Corey

No. Oh, no, no, it was first of all, a white cast anyway. You know it--no, it wasn't that. No, it was--it was the floozies. I would suspect.

Glen Taul

The floozies.

Orlin Corey

The floozies. You know, a couple of songs.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Felt that (??) were had a fair amount of innuendo in one or two cases. And then you go on again to the contest of the machine and--

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

--And the death of John Henry and.

Glen Taul

Yes.

Orlin Corey

And the whole thing went on through until he takes his hammer and goes on across into the other place, in the great beyond, so forth. And it was pleasant. It's just that there was a [makes concerned noises] [laughter] And I later learned there was a lot of, but at the time, I'm just telling you all I knew at the time, but that was up at the very top.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And this particular committee was brought in by instructions, but not admitted so, to take a look.

Glen Taul

You think on the--you know, on the president? Absolutely. Without question. And this is Dr. Eddleman? [Dr. H. Leo Eddleman]

Orlin Corey

Yes, he called me in to try to stop the tour after that. Oh, is that right?

Glen Taul

Now you think he would have had any objections if you just did the Book of Job. And--

Orlin Corey

--Well--

Glen Taul

--And not in

Orlin Corey

--In the visit I've referred, to which I should mention, I was summoned. This was really before the two shows had been revived again. But they played see the Job had been touring the previous year.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

The usual story for a piece

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

And John Henry was the spring show done in early May, ran the two weeks and then closed out and there were finals. And then we were at the interim, and just bringing back the grads to fit in and re-rehearse both shows.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Bring them up to leave in about the third week of June is the way we had it.

Glen Taul

Cause you all were going to tour that summer.

Orlin Corey

Yeah, because then we were going via Canada to perform there and then catch a ship from Montreal. And this is--'58-- --To sail. This is '58. So somewhere at the end of May. I was summoned to the president's office. And Dr. Harris was a dean. And he was seated in chair behind me. I thought that's interesting. And then I was here in New Orleans, and I'm in his place anyway.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And then he began talking and--

Glen Taul

I'm in the position of the president.

Orlin Corey

Yeah, you're the pres--

Glen Taul

And you were there and---

Orlin Corey

---Back over here just behind, yes. It wouldn't matter, back then--

Glen Taul

It was very cumbersome.

Orlin Corey

I could wish if they had and if I had the tape it'd be fascinating.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

He proceeded to tell me how ashamed he was with the maskrafters and how embarrassed he was by them. Then he proceeded to attack the entire program all the way back from the time he'd come. We had done the Tartuffe for example because we did classics. And you know, that's the play about the hypocrite. It was interesting that he--he said he was embarrassed by this. Somewhere. Amalia (??) would have been delighted, I think. [laughter] He was embarrassed but (??) would have been delighted. [laughter] And the Shakespeare really was not fit for mix company. Macbeth is about witchcraft. He had all of the the most narrow reads on things and this and that and they had a gabler, Gibson was an agnostic. It's just astonishing. To listen--I just listened--this went on some time. Maybe 20 minutes. He--I would say he really turned on.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And--but then the point came about England. He said, "well of course they're laugh you off the stage in England with that Job." He said, "they--they know about Bedouins, people don't look like that. That's like Catholics." I had none (??) was (??). And of course we had raised our own money, remember the maskrafters

Glen Taul

Right.

Orlin Corey

We raised our own money. And the students put up some but it was pretty well matched for me. I mentioned noon, I sold a car. My Thunderbird, yeah, was part of it.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And there were others too. Mrs. Alice Fogel (??) did--he did twenty percent of the cost.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

--For us so, which again, he didn't know.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But anyway, so I had no reason they couldn't stop me unless, unless he was to give me an ultimatum that my job or for the tour and he couldn't do that because I had tenure.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But then, and then he got into this. Also, but interestingly enough less to me about that than the Job. "The Job's not Christian," he said. That's interesting, then he's no testament professor. How interesting to separate--

Glen Taul

The two books--

Orlin Corey

--The two because--

Glen Taul

It fits.

Orlin Corey

--The two religions are--they're mother and daughter, historically, and in many, many, many, many ways anyway [laughter]. And on the there was a song in John Henry, which I think three girls were involved in. Who played the three floozies in--there were two scenes. Something about he's a railroad man and he can ride my train anytime.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

Sort of thing.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

And she did the whole thing quite properly with a nuance. Which was--everybody caught.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

But isn't it--isn't that where you see people is onstage? That's right, and well, he did refer to that. But mostly he spent his time about the Job. And he said there you know--there--he said, "there are things in the bible that should be read only in the bathroom or the bedroom."

Glen Taul

Now, that's interesting.

Orlin Corey

It was one of his phrases. I remember--certain phrases I clearly remember. And that they would laugh you off the stage and, and you--you people really should just stay here.

Glen Taul

Now by this time--he had been in President six years, right?

Orlin Corey

No, he was present only four years, four and a half years.

Glen Taul

I was trying to get my chronology right.

Orlin Corey

Yeah, he came--he started I believe June 1, '54.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

And he resigned before Thanksgiving, November '58. So he was about four and a half years. I guess, that's right.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Roughly--that's pretty close to it.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Maybe four years and--to seven months.

Glen Taul

And by this time, the controversy related to moving--

Orlin Corey

None of this had yet surfaced--

Glen Taul

--About moving the college.

Orlin Corey

No, that would be blowing up in the fall.

Glen Taul

Okay.

Orlin Corey

Because this is all-

Glen Taul

So, this is in May of '58.

Orlin Corey

May of '58, the end of May '58, our tour was the summer of '58.

Glen Taul

But all of this has probably bellowing (??) underneath the surfaces.

Orlin Corey

Oh, no, it definitely I know--I know it was.

Glen Taul

Yeah.

Orlin Corey

I knew--I knew then things were stirring. And because it was not public, it made one's into straighter. You know, and that's one of the things that was done wrong. Even if the concept might have been a pretty good idea, in theory, the way it was done was so--anyway. That's another matter, but that was prior to that public explosion. That even became public knowledge in Kentucky, when in late August '58, the Courier Journal--

Glen Taul 1:

Right.

Orlin Corey 1:

got hold of this, and did a front page story about it, and did several--I understand. But we just held our own.

Glen Taul 1:

So when you're sitting there, and he's talking to you what, what emotions are going through you?

Orlin Corey 1:

Well--

Glen Taul 1:

I know you're sitting there silent and everything.

Orlin Corey 1:

It was such a performance, I was fascinated with him. Because I have lots of interests, historically, and literary and people and so on. And so all of those things were working. And there just the man back here, I didn't have much to write about because he really wasn't writing unless I talked.

Glen Taul 1:

Oh, I see.

Orlin Corey 1:

I have good peripheral vision. They taught me that the Navy--

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Orlin Corey 1:

My eyes are better this way than they are out to the centers today. I still a good vision this way. So I can really see right--right to there.

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Orlin Corey 1:

Anyway, so only when I responded was any note taken, which, again, I understood what must be happening. I had nothing, particular to say, other than that we're going, people are expecting us. We owe it to people--people in England--people who have given to make it happen, the young people who are going. I said a few things like that.

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah.

Orlin Corey 1:

And I'm sorry you cannot wish us well. And--

Glen Taul 1:

Did this strike you--from your historical perspective, of something like the Inquisition or an English star chamber.

Orlin Corey 1:

Well--it's again now something else he disliked was The Crucible we--we staged The Crucible

Glen Taul 1:

Okay. Arthur Miller?

Orlin Corey 1:

Uh-huh. He didn't like that either. He went through the whole repertoire, he didn't like one of them. There's one exception, he did not object to one, so I presume he liked it. The one he did not object to was Philip Turner, the English writers' play called Christ in the Concrete City, which is one of the places we toured. And his daughter, his eldest daughter, elder daughter, was in that show. And she did a very good job, the girl was fine. And we played that all over the whole--including Ridgecrest and so forth and so on.

Glen Taul 1:

Orlin Corey 1:

But in reference to that general concept, not that play--

Glen Taul 1:

Yeah. --But all the plays he had seen, he was against everyone of them, but did not mention that one. But there was something wrong with each one. And did he root it in a theological objection or--?

Orlin Corey 1:

Well, it was always on a ethical, moral connection. Would you--yeah, oh, theological without being doctrinally explicit, but it was very much in the manner of The Tartuffe.