Oral History Interview with Donavyn Ceesay

Partial Transcript: . . . If you could just go ahead and give me your name, age, and place of birth.

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay was born in Hazard and primarily raised in Berea. Ceesay attended Berea Independent Schools and went to Berea College for one semester. Ceesay provides an overview of his work history. Initially, Ceesay worked as a barista at Berea Coffee and Tea before moving over to a manufacturing position at Framebridge in Richmond. Ceesay also briefly worked as a cashier at Dollar Tree, but disliked the nature of cashier work and moved on to his current position as a door greeter at Mercy Health Hospital in Irvine, Kentucky.

Keywords: Berea Coffee and Tea (Berea, Ky.); Berea Independent Schools (Berea, Ky.); Framebridge (Richmond, Ky.); Light industry; Mercy Health Hospital (Irvine, Ky.)

Subjects: Baristas; Berea (Ky.); Berea College; Cashiers; Dollar Tree (Firm); Early life; Education; Estill County (Ky.); Factories; Hazard (Ky.); Irvine (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Madison County (Ky.); Work

Partial Transcript: . . . What was the location that you attended protests at for the summer of 2020, that can be one location or multiple locations.

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay participated in a series of protests in Louisville's Jefferson Square Park from approximately May to July of 2020. Ceesay recalls that people of diverse backgrounds were present at the protests, as well as some people experiencing homelessness. Ceesay describes the atmosphere of the protests as safe and commune-like, with food trucks giving away free food and a sense of unity was cultivated amongst the crowd through a collective support for the Black Lives Matter Movement. Ceesay was only afraid when counter protestors came to Jefferson Square Park. Ceesay says that there was a police station across the street and at times, Jefferson Square Park was surrounded by police blocking off roads and snipers overhead in case any violence broke out in the crowd. Ceesay recalls one palpable moment of fear when white nationalist groups on Facebook threatened to walk by the BLM protestors carrying firearms. As a Black male, Ceesay was very uncomfortable with the idea of hundreds of racist white nationalists descending upon the crowd of mostly Black protestors. Ceesay estimates that around 70% of the protestors were Black, with the remaining 30% being a mix of different races, including Arabs, Whites, and Latinos.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Breonna Taylor; Counter protestors; Jefferson Square Park (Louisville, Ky.); Louisville Metro Police; White nationalists

Subjects: African Americans; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Danger; Discrimination; Diversity; Facebook (Electronic resource); Fear; Firearms; Food; Food trucks; Hate groups; Homelessness; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Police stations; Prejudice; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Race; Racism; Safety; Snipers

Partial Transcript: Did you help organize a protest--uh--or did you help organize a group to go . . .

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay usually went to protests organized by other people, but took an active role in distributing digital flyers about the protests and offering carpools to people interesting in attending the protests. Ceesay used social media to find out about the protests, since these platforms gave him more tangible information about what he could do to make a difference rather than just a rehashing of the events like in the news media. Ceesay decided to participate in the protests primarily because he has been active in racial justice movements for all of his life. Ceesay says that his parents encouraged him to protest to support his values and convictions. Ceesay participated in protests following the killing of Trayvon Martin in 2012 in Berea and also in support of same-sex marriage in Washington, D.C. Ceesay wanted to attend BLM protests in Louisville to be a part of drawing as much attention as possible to the issue of police brutality and the overall BLM movement as possible, since the national media was giving Louisville extra attention following the killing of Breonna Taylor. Ceesay's convictions for racial justice go very deep. Ceesay says that he would die for the cause of stopping the killings of Black people at the hands of police if that were a necessary step to enact societal change. Ceesay explains that he would gladly take the chance of risking his own personal safety by protesting since Ceesay believes that societal change needs to be made by any means necessary.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Breonna Taylor; Carpools; Friends; George Floyd; News; Trayvon Martin

Subjects: Activism; African Americans; Berea (Ky.); Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Change; Civil rights; Death; Instagram (Electronic resource); Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Protests (Negotiable instruments); Racial justice; Same-sex marriage; Snapchat (Electronic resource); Social media; Values; Washington (D.C.)

Partial Transcript: How did COVID-19 impact the way that you were living your life in terms of work, school, and your social life?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay explains that he was not too concerned about contracting COVID-19 at the time of the protests. Ceesay recalls that there were some people wearing masks at the protests in Jefferson Square Park, but social distancing practices were not being followed by protestors. Ceesay believes that most people at the protests thought it was worth contracting COVID-19 to advocate for racial justice. In terms of public health protocols to slow the spread of COVID-19, Ceesay says that some people quarantined from work after attending the protests. Ceesay thinks that many people who attended the protests and did not contract COVID-19 may have been less cautious from that point on since they did not contract the disease in an extremely high risk setting (primarily due to the crowding of people together at the protests.) Ceesay also views the protests as beneficial in the sense that people were able to get out and interact with others following almost three months of stay-at-home orders. Ceesay adds that some people stayed on the outskirts of the crowd at Jefferson Square Park and continued to practice social distancing and wore masks.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Jefferson Square Park (Louisville, Ky.); Quarantine

Subjects: African Americans; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; COVID-19 (Disease); COVID-19 pandemic, 2020-; Crowds; Health; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Masks; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Public health; Safety; Social distancing (Public health); Work; Young

Partial Transcript: Okay, so, what were some thoughts that you experienced on those days before you would go out to protest . . .

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay says that he never experienced any violence directed towards him from either police or counter protestors. Ceesay says he brought a knife for self-defense and zip ties and a cutter in case he were to be arrested while at the protests. Ceesay explains that he was unwilling to be arrested and charged for protesting against something that the government was doing to its own citizens, admitting that he would try to escape if he was arrested by police. Despite not experiencing violence firsthand at the protests, some of Ceesay's friends witnessed violent acts at the Louisville protests at other times. Ceesay recalls that some protestors brought umbrellas as a protection against tear gas. Ceesay says that some people at other protests had significant damage to their eyes due to blunt force trauma from being hit in the face with tear gas canisters.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Counter protestors; Injuries; Zip ties

Subjects: African Americans; Arrest; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Firearms; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Knife; Louisville (Ky.); Police; Protection; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Self-defense; Tear gas; Umbrellas; Violence

Partial Transcript: What was it like being in the crowd during the--the protest, like what stuck out most to you about those events, maybe if you could give me something positive and--and something negative.

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay describes the atmosphere of the protests as positive. Ceesay says that a sense of unity was cultivated amongst the protestors of diverse backgrounds coming together to fight systemic racism. The only negative sentiment that Ceesay felt at the protests was fear of backlash from counter protestors and others who opposed the Black Lives Matter Movement. Ceesay says that he did not see any violence while he was at the protests. Ceesay saw graffiti, but it was mostly related to the Black Lives Matter Movement. Ceesay did not receive any formal training prior to attending the protests, but organizers reminded protestors to demonstrate in a non-violent manner. Ceesay recalls that protestors chanted, spoke, and stood in front of prominent Louisville buildings. Ceesay observed several safety precautions provided by the organizers of the protests, including a first aid tent and milk to help people injured by tear gas. The most terrifying moment of the protests for Ceesay was when someone fired into the crowd of protestors. Ceesay was one of about two hundred people at the protest that day. One person was killed and another person was injured by the gunman.

Keywords: Allies; Black Lives Matter (Organization); Counter protestors; EMTs; Injuries; Instructions; Jefferson Square Park (Louisville, Ky.); Medic tents; Non-violence; Shooting; Systemic racism; Unity

Subjects: African Americans; Art; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Change; Chants; Crowds; Death; Fear; Firearms; First responders; Graffiti; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Milk; Police; Police brutality; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Safety; Snipers; Tear gas; Violence

Partial Transcript: So, what was your call to action--um--that really made you deem it necessary to get involved in all of this? Like, what was the pivotal moment for you?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay says that he has always been an activist for social justice and wanted to be a part of the protests from the start of the Black Lives Matter Movement. Ceesay participated in marches in Berea, but wanted to attend the Louisville protests in order to be a part of the effort to bring as much attention to the Black Lives Matter Movement as possible; especially since Louisville was in the national spotlight following the killing of Breonna Taylor at the hands of Louisville Metro Police.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Breonna Taylor; Jefferson Square Park (Louisville, Ky.); Louisville Metro Police; Media coverage; News; Visibility

Subjects: Activism; African Americans; Berea (Ky.); Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Marches; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Racial justice

Partial Transcript: How do you understand and value . . . Breonna Taylor's life and death?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay feels that all cases of police killing Black people should be as widely covered as the tragic case of Breonna Taylor. Ceesay is frustrated at the number of Black victims of police brutality who are not remembered and whose stories are not told. Ceesay believes that police killings of Black people need to be addressed and that the people in power are not doing enough to prevent these tragedies from happening.

Keywords: Breonna Taylor; George Floyd; News; Outrage; Trayvon Martin; Visibility

Subjects: African Americans; Attention; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Death; Police; Police brutality; Politicians; Power

Partial Transcript: Are you or were you involved with BLM or other organizations--uh--surrounding the protest?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay says that he was involved with the Black Lives Matter organization and other groups associated with the Black Lives Matter Movement as a whole. Ceesay believes that the goals of the Black Lives Matter organization are to increase the visibility of police brutality against Black people and to bring about change to stop this senseless violence from occurring. Ceesay says that other groups associated with the Black Lives Matter Movement may have had different ideas on how to bring about change to stop the disproportionate amount of police brutality committed against Blacks. Ultimately, Ceesay explains that the Black Lives Matter organization's primary goal at the protests was to peacefully demonstrate and increase the visibility of the issue to the general public.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Jefferson Square Park (Louisville, Ky.); Non-violence; Visibility

Subjects: African Americans; Attention; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Change; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Peace; Police; Police brutality; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Racial justice

Partial Transcript: . . . And--um--one of the counter protests that was seen--uh--during all of this was the rise of Blue Lives Matter . . .

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay views the concept of Blue Lives Matter as a counter protest to the Black Lives Matter Movement. Ceesay recalls that some people in the Black Lives Matter Movement developed an acronym that encapsulates how many Blacks feel about the police, which was ACAB (All Cops are Bad.) Ceesay explains that there have been many instances in which police cover up what really happened during incidents of police brutality. Ceesay says that some police officers are fired for refusing to lie about incidents they were involved with. Ceesay believes that the pressure to lie and conform to the standards of policing create a system where there are no good cops, since they quit or are fired by bad cops who want to reinforce police power. Ceesay adds that in reference to Blue Lives Matter, police officers are in a position of power and Black people are not. Ceesay also says that police choose their career and identity as a police officer, while race is something that people are born with.

Keywords: Arrest quotas; Black Lives Matter (Organization); Blue Lives Matter; Counter protestors; Firing; Jefferson Square Park (Louisville, Ky.)

Subjects: African Americans; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Careers; Corruption; Identity; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Police; Police brutality; Power; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Race; Standards

Partial Transcript: How did participating in the 2020 summer protests impact the relationships with your friends, family, or community?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay says that his family was very supportive of his decision to participate in the black lives matter protests. Ceesay's parents were proud that he was doing something to make a difference and stand up against police brutality. Ceesay adds that he found out who his true friends were when he became involved in the Black Lives Matter Movement, since some of his friends were not supportive of his decision to protest. Ceesay's father is a lawyer from Africa and Ceesay says that he experienced racism as an immigrant (partially because of his heavy accent when speaking English) and had many difficulties upon first arriving to the U.S.

Keywords: Allies; Black Lives Matter (Organization); Family; Friends; Supportive

Subjects: Africa; African Americans; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Father; Friendship; Immigrants; Interpersonal relations; Kentuckians; Kentucky; Lawyers; Louisville (Ky.); Police; Police brutality; Prejudice; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Racism

Partial Transcript: Do you feel as though the media's depiction of what was happening in these events and how they depicted the attitudes of the protestors--um--was accurate in your opinion?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay says that how the protests were portrayed in the media depended on the news outlet. Ceesay recalls that some news sources were supportive of the Black Lives Matter Movement and viewed it as a positive influence, while other media outlets led with the narrative that the protests were doing more harm than good due to the rioting and looting in cities associated with the protests. Ceesay thinks of the news media as a means to control people and uses many different sources of information to formulate his own opinion on issues. Ceesay says that his own firsthand experiences of the protests differed from the media portrayals of vandalism and rioting. Ceesay remembers hearing that certain groups not associated with the Black Lives Matter Movement were paying people to engage in vandalism and looting, but he is not sure what to believe due to the many differing accounts of the various protests that occurred all across the U.S.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Control; Jefferson Square Park (Louisville, Ky.); Looting; Media; News; Non-violence; Opinions

Subjects: African Americans; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Jefferson County (Ky.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Perspective; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Riots; Television; Vandalism; Violence

Partial Transcript: What outcomes did you wanna see from this protest? Like, what was the end goal for you?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay wanted some sort of change to the police system or police training in order to address police brutality. Ceesay would like to have police academies implement more stringent vetting measures for candidates. Ideally, Ceesay says police academies should go through the social media post histories of police academy students to ensure that potential candidates have not said anything racist or discriminatory. Ceesay also thinks that police forces should also have more diversity.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization); Goals; Police academies; Selection process

Subjects: Black lives matter movement; Change; Diversity; Education; Intelligence; Police; Police brutality; Prejudice; Protests (Negotiable instruments); Racism; Social media; Training

Partial Transcript: Have your feelings about the protests and the goals of the movement changed since the summer of 2020 and how do you feel about the protests today? Do you feel like the protests had an impact on you or society?

Segment Synopsis: Ceesay says that he feels the same about the protests now as he did in 2020. Ceesay regrets that he is too busy to be more involved in the Black Lives Matter Movement now with work and other responsibilities, but he still keeps up with news related to the movement. Ceesay thinks that the Black Lives Matter Movement caused people to be more aware of the issue of police brutality. Ceesay says that Blacks have been slowly making progress towards true equality since the Civil Rights Movement and that the Black Lives Matter Movement is another step in the right direction. Ceesay is hopeful that Blacks will have achieved societal equality in his future children's or grandchildren's lifetimes. Ceesay briefly discusses Breonna's Law, a law that banned no-knock warrants statewide in Kentucky. Ceesay is glad that Breonna's Law was passed, but believes that no-knock warrants should have already been banned.

Keywords: Black Lives Matter (Organization)

Subjects: African Americans; Black lives matter movement; Blacks; Civil rights movement; Kentuckians; Kentucky; Police; Police brutality; Protests (Negotiable instruments)