Interview with Becky Rhodus

Partial Transcript: So, next--uh--Becky, how about you tell me just a little bit about yourself in general.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus is a registered nurse and is newly single after a twenty-four year relationship. Rhodus has two dogs and enjoys boating on the lake. Rhodus was born and raised in Lancaster, Kentucky. Rhodus is a self-described tomboy who had three older brothers and always played with boys as a result. For Rhodus, being a tomboy meant playing sports, riding bikes, and climbing trees. Rhodus also says that she is independent and knows how to fix her boat and motorcycle. Growing up, Rhodus always wore boys' clothes. Rhodus remembers getting hand-me-downs from her male cousin. Rhodus wore some boys' boots from her cousin so much that her mother tried to throw them away. Rhodus says that one of her aunts tried to make her wear more feminine clothing. Rhodus says that no one bothered her about wearing boys' clothes for the most part.

Keywords: Boating; Clothes

Subjects: Early life; Childhood; Nurses; Dogs; Partners; Lancaster (Ky.); Garrard County (Ky.); Brothers; Tomboys; Sports; Games; Independence; Boats; Motorcycles; Aunts; Cousins; Boots; Hair; Jeans (Clothing)

Partial Transcript: And tell me about--tell me about school when you were in Lancaster as a kid, just in general, what was your school experience like?

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus did not like school because she did not fit in with her peers. As a sexual abuse survivor, Rhodus says that she did not form very many close relationships with children her own age and kept a lot of secrets due to her traumatic experiences. Rhodus had one teacher in high school that took an interest in her and several other promising students in her class. Religion had an influence on Rhodus as a child but her family went two three different churches. Rhodus' aunt was a Sunday school teacher at one church and her mother sang in the choir at a different church. Rhodus also says she carried a lot of guilt as a sexual abuse survivor.

Keywords: Different; Trauma; Family

Subjects: Early life; Childhood; Lancaster (Ky.); Garrard County (Ky.); Education; High school; Teenagers; Peers; Teachers; Secrets; Sexual abuse; Intelligence; Mother; Church; Singing; Guilt; Religion; Christianity; Gays; Lesbians; Sunday schools; Sunday school teachers; Guilt

Partial Transcript: You know, I remembered--sexuality part--um--I was like--uh--I was in Kindergarten, so I was like four years old--.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus first became aware of her sexuality when she noticed her Kindergarten teacher's cleavage one day when she was wearing a low-cut dress. Rhodus became confused as she started to go through puberty and had viewed herself as one of the boys but ended up not being friends with them by the time she entered high school. Rhodus says that it took her a long time to figure out the difference between attraction and desire and love. Rhodus did not see a lot of affection in her family except for hugs, which made it difficult for her to discern what her feelings meant. Rhodus was also able to discover her sexuality through playing softball. Rhodus played with women when she was around nine or ten because there were no youth softball leagues at the time. Rhodus is still friends with some of the women from the softball team today, and felt that she related to them more than gay boys in her peer group. Rhodus says that no one talked about being gay when she was in high school, but some of the boys who she would consider to be gay in retrospect were labeled as "sissies" by their peers.

Keywords: Sexuality; Cleavage; Feelings; Attraction

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; Lancaster (Ky.); Garrard County (Ky.); Sexual orientation; Kindergarten; Teachers; Childhood; Teenagers; Adolescence; Dresses; Boys; Girls; Teasing; Personality; Softball; Tomboys; Women; Bullying

Partial Transcript: Oh, so you went to UK, [University of Kentucky], did you go to UK?

Segment Synopsis: For Rhodus, moving to Lexington to attend UK (University of Kentucky) was a big change from small-town Lancaster, Kentucky. At that time, Rhodus says it was a two hour drive from Lancaster to Lexington. Rhodus wanted to rush in the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority with a friend of her sister-in-law, but was unable to do so because she had not submitted her application on time. Rhodus stayed in the Kirwan III dorm on campus and enjoyed being in an all-female atmosphere, but struggled to keep up with the other students financially. Rhodus says that she did some experimenting with another girl in her dorm but did not come out until she was a sophomore in college. Rhodus was dating a football player when she started to have a crush on a field hockey player who lived across the hall from her dorm room. Rhodus went to therapy to discuss her attraction towards women and the therapist reassured her that it was "okay to be gay." Rhodus says that therapy helped her to be comfortable with her identity and that she also wanted to learn some coping skills for dealing with financial difficulties.

Keywords: Tennis shoes; Tube socks; Dorms; Sorority rush; Alpha Gamma Delta; Sister-in-law; Kirwan-Blanding Complex (University of Kentucky); Therapy

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; Education, Higher; Lexington (Ky.); University of Kentucky; Tomboys; Hair; Style; Fashion; College sorority members; Women; Wealth; Coming out (Sexual orientation); Lancaster (Ky.); Football; Field hockey; Dating; Mental health; Identity; Behavior therapists

Partial Transcript: It seemed like you were suggesting that this was sort of the--I don't know, the--the precursor to you--um--getting sort of like the courage to come out. And I'm wondering sort of how did that go, like who did you talk to? --Um--what did you say, what were the reactions?

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus says that she was afraid when she began to have strong feelings for women. One of her roommates stepped in to help her through this difficult period. Rhodus' roommate would bring her breakfast from the dining hall and the two later moved to a small apartment off campus together. Rhodus began to meet other Lexington lesbians through playing softball. At this time, Rhodus says that she did not know any openly gay women, in part due to the fact that everyone that she knew who had been identified as gay were automatically ridiculed and labeled as queer by society. Rhodus says that she did not come out to her mother until after her first lesbian relationship ended about a year after moving off campus. Rhodus sought the support of her mother after the breakup, but her response was not positive. After being insulted and called crazy by her mother, Rhodus returned to Lexington. A few days later, she heard from her mother again and after consulting with her doctor and preacher, accepted Rhodus for who she was. Rhodus did not come out to her father until a few months later and it took him about one or two years to be comfortable with her being gay. Rhodus says her brothers were not surprised that she was gay.

Keywords: Sexuality; Attraction; Breakups; Preachers; Doctors; Acceptance; Relationships; Girlfriends

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; Lexington (Ky.); University of Kentucky; Coming out (Sexual orientation); Identity; Roommates; Apartments; Breakfasts; Food; Mental health; Fear; Softball; Labels; Love; Brothers; Father; Mother

Partial Transcript: I also went to the Army. [laughs]

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus decided to go into the military after her first lesbian relationship ended and she dropped out of college with six weeks left in the semester. By this time, Rhodus was well-known in the Lexington lesbian community for hosting parties. Coincidentally, when Rhodus went to enlist, she knew the Army recruiter personally and he was aware that she was a lesbian. Rhodus says that her sexual orientation was not a problem when enlisting and was part of a new co-ed basic training group in Fort Gordon, Georgia. Rhodus says that her company had five hundred men and nine women. Rhodus says there was one other lesbian in her company. Rhodus was in a lesbian relationship while in the Army. Rhodus was in active duty service for a year and in the National Guard for four years after that. Rhodus enjoyed her time in the military and experienced a lot of personal growth and boosted her self-confidence.

Keywords: Recruiters; Breakups; Relationships; Girlfriends

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; United States. Army; College dropouts; Basic training; Fort Gordon (Ga.); Lexington (Ky.); University of Kentucky; Sexual orientation; Self-confidence; National Guard; Parties

Partial Transcript: Before I get into The Country stuff, I want to get into like Lexington lesbians playing softball. Tell me just about that scene and what that was like.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus says that softball was instrumental in creating the social networks in the Lexington lesbian community that led to creating The Country. Lesbians in smaller towns would meet through softball and were able to join the same team together once they moved to Lexington. Rhodus says that one of the co-founders of The Country sponsored the lesbian softball team. Rhodus adds that a woman named Peggy Willoughby would oftentimes act as a recruiter and find girls who identified as tomboys to see if they would be interested in playing softball, mainly through her daughter who was a couple of years younger than Rhodus. Rhodus says there was nothing nefarious about Peggy that she was aware of, but appreciated in retrospect that she was introducing girls to the lesbian lifestyle. When Rhodus was playing softball, the vast majority of the players identified as lesbian tomboys. Rhodus does not like being labeled as a tomboy because she does not like to be categorized into a group of people. Rhodus says she wants to be the most authentic version of herself, which is when she is in nature climbing trees and being in the dirt. Rhodus' team would play other lesbian softball teams from other towns and traveled to Cincinnati and New Albany, Indiana. Rhodus says that some of the women she played against are in the National Softball Hall of Fame. Rhodus and her friend were also on the UK softball team in the pre-title IX era.

Keywords: Softball tournaments; The Country; Peggy Willoughby; Tough; Title IX

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; Softball; Lexington (Ky.); Women; Tomboys; Social networks; Friendship; Women-owned business enterprises; Coaches (Athletics); Labels; Authenticity (Philosophy); Lifestyles; Teachers; College sports; College sports for women

Partial Transcript: . . . In terms of like just your awareness at the time of that, your involvement in that, if--if there was involvement. In terms of just like, whether it was actions or ideas, you know, whatever.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus was a teenager when the Women's Rights Movement began. One of Rhodus' teachers gave her a political button with the slogan "Uppity Women Unite" on it. Around the same time, Rhodus went for a bra fitting with her mother and aunt. Rhodus felt self-conscious about her body and often wore sweatshirts. Rhodus decided to burn her bra like the activists in the Women's Rights Movement.

Keywords: Women's Rights Movement; Bras; Bra burning

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; Women's rights; High school; Teenagers; Teachers; Campaign buttons; Politics; Brassieres; Feminists; Mother; Aunts; Sweatshirts; Activism

Partial Transcript: . . . You'd mentioned that if it weren't for the softball sort of like community that you all had, that The Country wouldn't have happened. And so, I just wanted to ask you what your--what--what you know about sort of the--from your perspective and your knowledge, what you know about the origins of The Country.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus was still in high school when The Country first opened. Rhodus remembers going to parties where she heard discussions about opening a lesbian bar. Rhodus enjoyed going to The Country to socialize, dance, and play pool. Rhodus says that she would often go to The Country with her friends on the softball team and wore three-piece suits. Rhodus recalls being excited when she went to The Country for the first time. Rhodus is grateful for the co-owners of The Country for creating a lesbian bar. Rhodus says that The Country was shrouded in mystery and obscurity in a strip mall to not attract attention to the bar.

Keywords: The Country; Membership cards; Clothes; The Hidden Door (Lexington, Ky.)

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; Lexington (Ky.); Nightlife; Bars (Drinking establishments); Softball; Dance; Membership; Women-owned business enterprises; Dance floors; Disco music; Pool (Game); Softball; Softball teams; Suits (Clothing)

Partial Transcript: I wanted to ask you about sort of the demographics--um--in terms of, is there--was there like a general age group of people that went there or was it all ages.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus says that most of the patrons at The Country were women in their late teens and early twenties. Rhodus went to The Country when she was in high school and during college when she was a student at UK. Rhodus says that softball was a major part of the Lexington lesbian community and had a different atmosphere than the gay bars downtown. Rhodus thinks that gay men and lesbian women do not have much in common except that they are both gay. Rhodus believes that the HIV/AIDS epidemic brought together the gay and lesbian community in new ways that were uncommon prior to that point in time. Rhodus has rarely felt close to gay men but enjoys going to events like drag brunch and thinks that gay men are fun to be around. Rhodus does not remember a lot gay men going to The Country, but says that some women would bring their brothers who were gay.

Keywords: The Country; Lafayette High School (Lexington, Ky.); AIDS Epidemic; Drag brunch

Subjects: Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Nightlife; Bars (Drinking establishments); High school; Adolescence; Teenagers; Young adults; Softball; University of Kentucky; HIV (Viruses); AIDS (Disease); Drag performances; Drag queens; Drag shows

Partial Transcript: Did you ever hear anyone talk about--or identify as butch or femme or use those kind of words?

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus did not use the terms "butch" and "femme" but has observed that some couples feel the need to play these roles when they are out together. For example, Rhodus knew a couple who would dress up as a butch and femme pair and go to The Country. Rhodus does not identify with being butch and has always wanted to be a woman. Rhodus views herself as a tomboy and androgenous.

Keywords: The Country; Clothes

Subjects: Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Identity; Bars (Drinking establishments); Nightlife; Butch and femme (Lesbian culture); Androgyny (Psychology); Fashion; Feminine beauty (Aesthetics); Role playing; Tomboys; Identity

Partial Transcript: Tell me what you remember about the way The Country looked inside. As in sort of like the room itself--uh--any sort of features, lights, colors, furniture, just whatever you remember . . .

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus describes the layout of The Country. Rhodus remembers there being a room with pool tables to the left of the main entryway. The bar was also located in this room. Off of the main room was the dance floor and a set of tables and chairs to sit in. The dance floor had disco lights and Rhodus enjoyed playing pool tournaments in the dance floor room. Rhodus would meet her friends there and wear a white three-piece suit with a vest. Rhodus would smoke weed and take other drugs on a typical night at The Country. One time, Rhodus took quaaludes from someone at The Country and could not find her way home for three days.

Keywords: Disco lights; Clothes; Disco lights; Pool tournaments; Weed; Fun; Driving

Subjects: Gays; Lesbians; Lexington (Ky.); Nightlife; Bars (Drinking establishments); Dance floors; Tables; Pool (Game); Fashion; Hair; Suits (Clothing); Vests; Drugs; Marijuana; Methaqualone; Summer

Partial Transcript: And I hated it when it failed cause like, there was--and I'm not even sure why it failed. Honestly--I don't know what happened to where it--I don't know what happened when the bar closed.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus was sad when The Country closed since it had played such a major role in her life. Rhodus is unsure why The Country closed, but speculates that it may have had something to do with the different owners being in relationships together and subsequently breaking up. Rhodus thinks that The Hidden Door was a more appropriate name for the bar and is unsure why The Country was selected as the original name. Rhodus does remember some live music performances at The Country, usually with all-female bands. Rhodus says that The Country was open every day. Rhodus adds that the clientele at The Country was a fluctuating mixture of single women and women in relationships. Rhodus says it was rare to see Black lesbians at The Country. Rhodus believes this is because Lexington was still quite segregated along racial lines in the early 1980s.

Keywords: The Country; The Hidden Door (Lexington, Ky.); Relationships; J.C. Conley

Subjects: Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Nightlife; Bars (Drinking establishments); Women-owned business enterprises; Partners; Music; Performances; Women's bands (Music); Women; Dating; Blacks; African Americans; Friendship; Social; Softball; Softball teams

Partial Transcript: --Um--a couple people I've talked to mentioned sort of house parties, as in like, after The Country, maybe they'd go to someone's house and the party would continue.

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus says she would frequently host afterparties at The Country. Rhodus briefly mentions that there were joint special events and theme nights on major holidays at The Country and The Bar in downtown Lexington. Rhodus would go to gay bars in Lexington such as The Bar and The Circus Disco. Rhodus says there was another lesbian bar on the second floor of a building on the corner of Limestone and Main Street, but it was not in business for very long.

Keywords: The Country; The Bar (Lexington, Ky.); New Year's Eve; Circus Disco Bar; Main Street (Lexington, Ky.); Limestone Street (Lexington, Ky.)

Subjects: Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Parties; Nightlife; Bars (Drinking establishments); Entertaining; Holidays; Halloween; New Year

Partial Transcript: . . . The Country, you know, closes sometime in '82. --Um--what--and I kind of know what's coming up but what's--what's happening--what happens in your life from that point sort of onward. What happens next, essentially?

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus met her now ex-partner when she started going to The Country. Rhodus moved to Richmond, Kentucky with her partner in the mid-1980s and stopped going out, but continued to play softball. Rhodus says that lesbian women stepped up to help gay men during the AIDS epidemic because the most of society refused to help them. Rhodus thinks that all women have a caregiving instinct and HIV-positive gay men were sick and afraid of dying and needed someone to help take care of them. One of Rhodus' ex-partners was very active on a national scale in advocating for HIV/AIDS patients. Rhodus' ex-partner also used the wealth she inherited from her brother (who died from AIDS) to fundraise for HIV/AIDS research.

Keywords: The Country; Relationships; AIDS Epidemic

Subjects: Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Softball; Softball teams; Softball players; Partners; Richmond (Ky.); Fear; Stigma (Social psychology); AIDS (Disease); HIV (Viruses); Death; Caregiving; Fund raising; Friendship; Compassion

Partial Transcript: ---How--how--to what extent have you kept in touch with people that you met at The Country . . .

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus has kept up with several friends from The Country primarily through Facebook. Rhodus would like to have a central gathering point for the Lexington lesbian community like The Country today. Rhodus enjoyed catching up with her friends from The Country days when they had a reunion event at the Lexington Diner (which is in the same strip mall that The Country was located in) recently. Rhodus says that the lesbian softball leagues are not nearly as prominent in the Lexington social scene as they used to be. Rhodus explains that several employees at the Lexington Parks and Recreation department put the work in to make the lesbian softball leagues popular and fun.

Keywords: The Country; Lexington Diner (Lexington, Ky.); Lexington Parks & Rec

Subjects: Communication; Social media; Facebook (Firm); Gays; Lesbians; Bars (Drinking establishments); Nightlife; Events; Friendship; Social; Softball; Softball teams; Softball players; Recreation; Local government

Partial Transcript: You know, thinking about Kentucky in general during, you know, kind of the--time of The Country, so late 70s, early 80s and Kentucky now, what are--what's the difference between the two? What are the differences, what are the similarities--um--how have things changed or not changed, you know, in your perspective. You know, between these two points in time?

Segment Synopsis: For Rhodus, it is confusing for her as to why the younger generation wants to have labels about themselves when her age group had fought so hard to not have them. Rhodus says she has a hard time changing her language to match newer terms. For example, Rhodus struggled with calling her now ex-partner her wife after using the term "partner" for so long. Rhodus says that her great-niece is experimenting with different expressions of her identity. Rhodus adds that she does not always understand some of these new terms and concepts, but wants people to love who they want to and be themselves. Rhodus thinks that Kentucky has progressed a bit in terms of accepting LGBTQ people, but only in larger cities like Lexington. Rhodus associates mostly happy memories with her time spent at The Country. Rhodus says she enjoyed playing pool more than dancing. Rhodus only has a few negative memories, mostly associated with her partner getting too drunk or high and leaving her at The Country.

Keywords: The Country; Family; Great-niece; Acceptance; Urban

Subjects: Change; Gays; Lesbians; Lexington (Ky.); Politics; Labels; Identity; Young adults; Generations; Partners; Daughter; Pronoun; Facebook (Electronic resource); Social media; Rural; Bars (Drinking establishments); Nightlife; Pool (Game); Dance

Partial Transcript: How did you--how did you first hear about this project?

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus found out about this project through a friend (Connie Harrison) who also participated in the project. The interviewer explains that the genesis of this project was to address a gap in the Faulkner Morgan's Archive's collection, which mostly has materials relating to the Lexington gay community. Rhodus grew up with several aunts, one of whom she thinks was a lesbian in retrospect. Rhodus' aunt slept in a separate bed than her husband and was interested in hunting and dressed in what Rhodus describes as a "butch" style. Rhodus says that women who exhibited these behaviors were historically not thought of as possibly being lesbian despite not fitting into traditional gender norms.

Keywords: The Country; Faulkner Morgan Archive; LGBTQ History

Subjects: Oral histories; Interviews; Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Bars (Drinking establishments); Mother; Aunts; Influence; Independence; Hunting; Chickens

Partial Transcript: Women aren't putting money in bar like a--men do.

Segment Synopsis: According to Rhodus, bars geared towards women are not financially successful because women do not put a lot of money into bars frequently. On the other hand, Rhodus says that men will spend a large portion of their paycheck on strip clubs and alcohol. Rhodus would like to find women willing to go to lesbian bars today, but thinks there are not enough people interested in going to establish a new lesbian bar in greater Lexington. Rhodus also mentions a florist that herself and her softball teammates worked for delivering flowers. Rhodus says they would also occasionally deliver some weed with the flowers.

Keywords: The Country; Lesbian bars; Strip clubs; Weed

Subjects: Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Women-owned business enterprises; Florists; Flowers; Softball; Softball teams; Softball players; Women; Men; Nightlife; Alcohol; Money; Behavior; Social norms; Trucks; Women-owned architectural firms; Entrepreneurship; Marijuana

Partial Transcript: All right, how do you feel when you look back on The Country . . .

Segment Synopsis: Rhodus has happy memories of The Country. Rhodus reflects on this period in her life as a time of great change and self-discovery. Rhodus feels proud of being true to herself and embracing her identity. Rhodus adds that there are still some people who deny who they really are and keep their sexual orientation a secret. Rhodus says being her true self gave her enough self-confidence to pursue a career in nursing.

Keywords: The Country

Subjects: Lexington (Ky.); Gays; Lesbians; Nightlife; Bars (Drinking establishments); Belonging (Social psychology); Softball; Softball players; Identity; Coming out (Sexual orientation); Courage; Sexual orientation; Self-confidence; Self-esteem; Nurses