Oral History Interview with Virginia Moore

SCHMITT: This is Sarah Schmitt with the Kentucky Oral History Commission at the Kentucky Historical Society. Today is June 10th, 2020, and I'm here interviewing Virginia Moore, who is the Director or Executive Director...

MOORE: Executive Director.

SCHMITT: Uh huh. Of the Kentucky Commission for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing. And this is for the Kentucky COVID-19 Oral History Project that is partially funded by a CARES grant through the Kentucky Humanities Council. So I gotta thank all of our sponsors. And so I usually...I try not to ask a lot of short answer questions because then we get into, like, a pattern of short answers, and it's hard to get out of...

MOORE: Yes, no, and yeah. Okay.

SCHMITT: Yeah. Mhm. So...

MOORE: No worries here. I don't really have short answers. [Laughs]

SCHMITT: Oh, good. So we'll start from the very beginning. Tell me what your family was like growing up.

MOORE: Well, my first language is actually sign language, so yes. Both my parents are deaf. I have a deaf sister, and I have deaf brother, but there are two other hearing sisters. So there were...there's five of us. Mom and Dad had the first three, thought they were done. And much later they had two more. So actually most of my siblings were almost out of the house, and my sister and I, who is deaf, she's about a year and...she's a year and a half, year and six months, older than I am, and she's deaf. So we actually were very close in our education. Mom and Dad had to figure out...you know, it was easier for them to figure out her education because she went to the School for the Deaf, and then 1:00mine was at the public school system. So that was a little difficult for them, but yes. I was raised in a deaf family.

SCHMITT: And where was this? Is this...? Were you...?

MOORE: I was raised in Louisville, Kentucky. And my father worked for the Courier Journal. And it was at the time where you will find that a lot of deaf individuals worked in paper, printing. There were niches that a lot of deaf individuals worked in, and printing was one of them. And the Courier Journal had lots of deaf individuals working there, and Dad made a career out of it. He sold papers when he was five years old on the corner. And so he went from there, and he ended up working at Courier Journal, and made a career.

SCHMITT: Oh, that's interesting. So I'd never heard that. It makes sense. But what did he do at the Courier Journal? I'm sure a lot of different things for a long...

MOORE: He was a paste-up. Ads-man. So he...at the time, you know, you had to paste up the whole front page or whatever pages. So everything had to have the lines. You know, all those little lines, and the words, and everything. Everything had to be paste up, and you had to know exactly the size of everything. So it was a very technical...my dad loved it because it took a lot of problem-solving and working in paste-up. And then everything went digital. So, you know, he was just learning that.

SCHMITT: How did...I'm imagining...how did they handle communication at that time? Having a lot of deaf individuals on staff. This is, I'm assuming, before ADA, or at least not long after it.

MOORE: Oh, it was before ADA. And they...they did a lot of writing notes back-and-forth. But it was incredible because, I believe, that it...I don't know how to say this. I think that then the supervisors knew that they wanted to get something across to their employees, so they wrote things down. They gestured. They communicated. They talked. They really did a lot to make it happen.

You know, they would talk about paste-up that they're gonna be doing. They would...and my dad always had this notepad in his pocket, so communication...he never talked about the problem of communication. And I don't know if it was just that they understood that they had to make it happen. And then we got to a point where people stopped making it happen, and we had to come in and say, "Yeah. This has to happen." And, of course, things...change is always good in a lot of ways. So we went to the ADA and started introducing interpreters.

SCHMITT: Yeah. It sounds like he wasn't isolated in his workspace.

MOORE: No, no. There were other deaf employees that were around. They, you know, they got together. He was a big union man. And they had the union at the time, so. I can remember one time when they went on strike. And what they expected the deaf employees to do. And it was just an interesting time. The Courier Journal was quite a tradition, and I was sort of raised up in that. You know, my dad would...I would wake up in the morning, and my dad would have the paper scattered. And he would have...he would say, "Mom," and he would say, "Karen." He would say, "Ginny, and they called me "Ginny" at home. And you would see...I had to read something. And then he would ask us later, 'cause he worked the night shift, when he'd wake up, and that would be our conversation. "What did you read? What did you learn?" So it was pretty incredible.

SCHMITT: And what did your mother do?

MOORE: Mom, actually, she went...they both went to Kentucky School for the Deaf, and that's how they met. And Mom became a secretary and worked for, actually, the...when there was the draft for the war, she actually worked with inserting everybody into the computer system. She would type. They would come in. They'd have to hand her a card, their card. She would see the young men first, and she talked about how their scary faces when they would come in, and she would try to make them feel comfortable, you know. Even though they would sit there and talk to her, she'd just nod and say, "Yeah, okay. We're gonna be good." So she worked for the draft board for a while, and then she became a homemaker because, you know, there were five of us. So...

SCHMITT: It's a full-time job.

MOORE: It's a full-time job.

SCHMITT: What...what's unique about being the hearing child of deaf parents?

MOORE: There's something...and there's a label for that, and I call it a label because sometimes I own it. Sometimes I do not.

SCHMITT: Right.

MOORE: And it's called "CODA." Child of deaf adults. So as a CODA child there's been a lot of...there's a lot of things that they say when you're younger. You know, I knew what the interest rate was at the age of seven. And I helped my father negotiate buying a car at the age of eight. I...there were certain things that I do...I did that most children would not have understood. So to me that was actually very interesting. And, you know, of course I use all that. I understood how my father had to negotiate much earlier in life. So now I do that quite well in my own life. But there were certain things that a hearing child of deaf parents would go through.

SCHMITT: Yeah.

MOORE: My sister, one time, needed assistance, and she was in Pennsylvania. And my mother and father needed to call her. It was the middle of the night. And I was, at the time, I think I was five. And my mother was desperate just to tell her something, so...but we had to go through the operator at that time. And the operator kept hanging up on me. And my father said, "Can you make your voice a little deeper?" You know, it's just like, "Uh uh." So there were some...there were some growing pains in that respect. That people just didn't understand.

We didn't have a teletype for the deaf. The teletype for the deaf came out much later. I was in high school. You know, when you're in high school your friends say, "Hey, let's go somewhere right afterwards," or have fun or something 15, 16 years old. And so, yeah. I would want to do that, but I always had to drive home. Or I always had to get home first, tell Mom and Dad. Well, then, finally 8:00this device came. You know, they had the big teletype device in the house, but there was nothing mobile, so I couldn't. But this mobile device came out, but it had wires and everything hooked to it. So Dad said, "Here, now if you have an emergency, you can call us." And I was like, "Oh, this is fantastic."

So I'd carry this bag with me, and I needed to tell them, "Hey." So I used it the first time. There was a hotel, and I went, "Oh, okay." They had a payphone. So I went in the hotel to the payphone, and you gotta hook up everything. You have couplers here on each end. There was wires. There's this little device...it's got a little...it makes a "dit dit dit dit" sound. And I'm sitting there on the phone. I'm sitting there typing and everything. All the sudden behind me there's officers saying, "Stop what you're doing." And I thought, "What do I have to stop for?" You know, I'm sitting here just working back-and-forth. And I turned around, and they were serious. And they said, "Step away from it." They had their hands on their gun. They didn't draw it, and I stepped away scared to death. They thought it was some kind of device, and I was gonna blow up the hotel or something because it was so unique and new.

SCHMITT: Wow.

MOORE: I never used that again in public. [Laughs]

SCHMITT: I imagine. That's terrifying. You described, you know, that you went to the public school, and your sister went specifically to a school for the deaf. What was the re...what was your education like?

MOORE: Well, my education was, I think, just like anything else. But, I would say, there were two things that affected me mostly in school. And that is my mother and father would have parent-teacher conferences with my sister Karen's teachers, no problem. And my teachers, at the time, would hand out notes to everybody, but I never got a note for a parent-teacher conference. And Mom kept asking me, "When are we going to meet with the teachers?" So she went down there to talk to them, and they said, "Well, it's okay, you know. 'Cause we can't use your daughter to interpret." And they didn't know how to, you know, to communicate. So they said, "We just send notes home to you." That never sat well with Mom. She always made it work. So...but I always felt like, "Well, you know..." Because there wasn't interpreters at the time.

SCHMITT: Right.

MOORE: Now you wouldn't have that. Now that wouldn't be a possibility. And then the other thing was that English is a second language. So I struggled with the written English because I used my...sign language was my first language. So ASL, American Sign Language, doesn't have a written form, and so it struggled. And even today I have an editor because every once in a while you'll see that I'll switch...I'll switch things backwards. Instead of saying "beef stew," I'll say "stew beef." Because that's how things would work in ASL. So that was one of my challenges in school.

SCHMITT: Sure. I think that's one thing that maybe people that have only been exposed to, but aren't familiar with, ASL don't know that it's not a literal, verbatim, word-for-word interpretation of English. That it's...it is its own unique language. It's derivative, but...

MOORE: It's its own unique language. It's a foreign language. It's been accepted as a foreign language. So absolutely. Yeah.

SCHMITT: And then when...what did you go on to study in college or university?

MOORE: Well, this is interesting, and, you know, some people think, "Well, you were designed to work the deaf population because of your family, and that would be your career all your life." Well, no. That was not what I was going into. I went to Michigan State University to be a criminologist. And that's why I love CSI, but shows today...I've got 'em all. I wanted to be a criminologist. I loved the problem-solving. I loved being involved in that. And I did very well, except that there was a point where I had to learn how to shoot a gun. And I'm not opposed to that at all. I mean, I think there's a place for guns. There's not issue for that for me at all. However, for me, I had an issue with trying to pull that trigger and knowing what that bullet could end up doing. Couldn't finish that one, so I couldn't finish that. And it was a part of the curriculum, 12:00and I was trying to work through that.

I...and tell me if my little stories get too far off-track, but my sister was at Gallaudet University, which is a premier university for deaf students, and it's in Washington, D.C. So she calls me up, and she says, "We're gonna have a big weekend and fun stuff. Why don't you come up and visit?" And I said, "Sure." So I went up there, and they were gonna go play war games, paintball. And I thought, "Well, this is good. This will help me over the hump." There were 13:00approximately 50 or so deaf individuals and me. So everybody wanted me on their team because I could hear, okay? And you put 50 deaf individuals out in the middle of the woods, scatter them, and they can't hear each other. It's hari-kari. I mean, they're going up the hill. They're going after ya. I got shot so many times trying to tell them, "Whoa, whoa! I've been shot! It's over!" Oh, no. They didn't hear me. [Laughs] So it was fun, but it did not help me over the hump.

Unfortunately, my father passed away in a severe car accident, so I came back home from Michigan State after two years and finished my education at Indiana University Southeast. When I transferred, everything transferred in sociology and psychology. So I moved into working with providing career-based testing for 14:00individuals. And when I provided career-based testing they found out that I knew sign language. So Voc Rehab sort of snuck in there and said, "Wait, can you test deaf individuals?" And I said, "Sure." So I started testing deaf individuals, and then they wanted to hire me on to work with deaf individuals in a caseload. I said, "Sure." 'Cause it was still a part of what I was doing and what I wanted. And then everything just sort of progressed from there, and I found myself at the Commission on the Deaf and Hard of Hearing.

SCHMITT: What did you...what did you start out doing at the Commission?

MOORE: Well, I worked...I took a summer interpreting job that I'd just wanted to get into the arts. So the scholars program, the art scholars program that they have during the summer. The...I--

SCHMITT: Governor's? Yeah.

MOORE: Governor's School for the Arts. Yes. Bobbie Beth Scoggins, at the time, was the Executive Director, and she's deaf, and she's also an actress. She's been on Broadway for Children of a Lesser God, so she came in as an instructor for the first time with the Governor's Scholars Program. And she needed a good interpreter, so they...I decided, "Yeah." I wanted to do that. I wanted to experience that. That was probably one of the most highlights in my life. I loved that. It was an incredible experience. Her teaching young minds, and the students, and how the students were reacting, and working with Frank Walker at the time. He was there. And, of course, everybody knows Frank Walker, and, you know, I was starstruck with all the individuals who could write and the artistry.

After that was over, Bobbie Beth Scoggins said she wanted me to continue on. So she actually hired me into work as her personal interpreter. I struggled with that decision; however, something in my gut said this would be the right move. And I did it, and it was the right move. It put me in touch with the community as a whole, and I found out that was pretty much where I needed to be.

SCHMITT: Yeah. I wonder if the current Director of the Governor's School for the Arts knows about that history. He's...

MOORE: I don't know.

SCHMITT: He's a young one. He's a friend of mine, so...

MOORE: Is he?

SCHMITT: ...I'm curious...

MOORE: Well, yeah. I would be...I'd be glad to share it. It was so much fun. Frank actually...Frank actually reached out to me here recently and said, "Hello." I hadn't talked to him in a long time. And he mentioned the fond memories of the time that we had then.

SCHMITT: Describe...you've already sort of described your career path and how you came to the Commission. How did you come to be Executive Director?

MOORE: Best laid plans are not always planned. You know, things that happen in your life you could plan and...I think we all need to have a plan, but I don't think we need to be stuck with the plan. We need to understand that plans are fluid, that things change. So I...as I was working as her personal interpreter, Bobbie Beth Scoggins, one of my...the mentors in my life working with her was 17:00incredible. The opportunities that I had as an interpreter working...I have had opportunities to work all over the world. I have worked with the Kellogg Foundation, who had a deaf fellow. I've been to Africa, and Australia, and Dominican Republic. So I have been everywhere with this profession that I chose.

And, by the way, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that being an interpreter does not mean you can just walk into it. Doesn't matter if your parents were deaf. I'm nationally certified. I had to take two national tests, at the time. So I'm nationally certified, and today you still have to have a bachelor's degree, which I do hold. So there's national certification. There's everything that one goes through. It's a profession. But I have used this profession to open my world, and I've gone everywhere with it. And the opportunities started happening there, so my plan never would have taken me to Africa, and Dominican Republic, and these third world countries where I got to see how deaf and hard of hearing individuals are...how they're educated. Can they drive? In some countries they cannot. So I got to learn so much.

I was able to interpret for one of my all-time favorites, which was Maya Angelou. And that was an incredible experience being with her. You know, some of the presidents come in, I'm vetted. There were so many opportunities there. I'm...I was able to move into managing some departments working with the Access Center providing interpreters for state government. Trying to develop new policies for that. So I started developing policies, and moving into certain areas.

And then I became Bobbie Beth's Assistant Executive Staff Advisor. And she decided to retire. Very quickly, she just retired. Her husband and her needed to go back home to Texas. He wanted to go back home, so she retired, and they made me Interim. And I was the Interim for a while, and they did this search, and they brought somebody in, and, you know, it just didn't click. So they went back to me being Interim, and then...I don't know. It just happened, you know. Life...life plans, all of a sudden I found myself applying and becoming the Executive Director. And I've been the Executive Director since 2010, I think. Or '11. And so I've been with the Commission for almost 25 years.

SCHMITT: Yeah. It sounds like you were just open to opportunities.

MOORE: Yeah. I believe if we're not open to opportunities, then opportunities will close their doors on you, and then you'll...you know, you never know what you can do. I...we all have had doors close on us that we didn't know, you know. We're not always looking.

But I think the path that I've taken to work with Access and the deaf and hard of hearing community here in Kentucky, and the sheer numbers that...I worked with a board member. She was a chair at the time. Wonderful woman. Two young boys, and in this field there's quite the controversy of learning sign language or going with cochlear implant method. And that is where they actually put a magnet and cochlea inside...something inside your cochlea of your ear, and it tries to help you hear certain things and speak. It's successful in some and not in others. It's not a...it...because deafness has such a cultural aspect to it, that deaf individuals are proud to be deaf.

My brother has four children. His first one was born, and he was deaf. Everybody celebrated. When his second one was born, they called my mother on the teletype, and my friend was there with me, and we were looking over Mom's shoulder. And my brother was typing back-and-forth, and he said, "Well, Mom. We don't know what we're gonna do. We just found out. We're a little upset, but we found out that Shana can hear." And my friend said, "Oh, obviously that's a mistype." And I said, "No. It's not." Because they understand the schools. They understand what to do. They under...now they're gonna worry about the friends. What are they saying? Going into the public school system. So it's actually...there's the reverse view.

And so here's the board of the chair, Trish Freeman. Wonderful woman. Has two boys. And she decides to go the cochlear implant method. Young, young, young. And I had just started with the Commission, and I look at her, and I was just like, "Well," you know. And she said, "Well, you know, this is why we did this." And I was a little taken back, but she said, "Well, Virginia. You know, we don't want them to feel like they're disabled. We want to make sure we could get them mainstream." And I looked at her and said, "In my family, I'm the disabled one." And she just sort of looked at me, and she's...and I said, "Yeah. 'Cause I'm the one that can hear, and the rest of them can't. And the culture is very easy in our house." So we just learned.

And being open...she and I have created such a wonderful bond because we looked into each other's world and said, "Okay." So I learned that deafness I understand. But what a lot of individuals are going through, and we have 700,000 deaf and hard of hearing here in the state of Kentucky, hard of hearing is the biggest bulk. Losing your hearing later in life is such a challenge. It is such a painful experience. It removes you from people. Individuals start treating you different. They think, "Well, nah. It's okay. I'll tell you later. You didn't hear me." Husbands and wives have issues. That has been the biggest challenge for me.

And making sure information gets out to that population so that there is some type of understanding, caring, and concern. We work with statistics a lot. And I love statistics. But veterans coming back? Their number one issue is hearing loss.

SCHMITT: Really?

MOORE: Their number one disability is hearing loss. And hearing loss is the third-highest health issue in the United States. It's heart, arthritis, and hearing loss. And it is an issue. And the isolation that people feel with the hearing loss is tremendous. So I'm...I'm spurred on by that issue of trying to close that gap. And I found out that was sort of my niche at the Commission.

SCHMITT: And so what...what are some...what are some of the needs that you think that the deaf and hard of hearing communities, and I'm sure it's different for each in some cases, that need to be addressed through policy?

MOORE: Education is...education is a need for everybody. And better education is always a need. But for the deaf and hard of hearing, you have the School for the Deaf, which they understand. They have teachers there that will educate in ASL, but some parents don't want to put their child in Danville, so there's...there's public school system, which is fine. Moving the child up front is a simple fix, but they never think about that. If a child is hard of hearing, and basically can function well with hearing aids, the chairs that the students scoot back on or move around on is one of the highest pitches. And school systems don't know that. Putting tennis balls on the bottom shoes...on the chairs can cut down and allow that student to hear better. And it's...that's a tremendous simple fix. Making sure that that student...that the teacher is front-facing and doesn't turn around and talk and write on the board. If that student needs a note-taker, let that student get a note-taker. If they need an interpreter in the classroom, get an interpreter in the classroom.

It's...education has to happen. And sometimes you cannot educate or test a deaf student just like you do a hearing student. There are some tests that have an auditory-based system to it. And some of the core curriculum does, and they test these students, and they can't do it. So, you know, they...sometimes we just need to think out of the box, and educate these students. That is something that is on the forefront. In language acquisition, we need to assess these deaf children with language from birth to, you know, six years of age because that is the largest learning curve right there. And we need...my biggest push for the next year is to try to push a system change and have something in place to assess language acquisition of deaf and hard of hearing kids.

The other areas are just on the other end of the spectrum. Seniors. We did a survey with nursing homes about five years ago, and we asked...and we sent them a survey. It didn't work, so we made phone calls. "How many deaf or hard of hearing do you have in your facility?" Most of them said, "None." A few said, "One." One or two said, "Yeah. I know somebody that has a hearing aid." That is 27:00not...that is not accurate. They are not dealing with the fact that as we get older one of our first senses that goes is hearing, and hearing loss with seniors is tremendous. Not...if you don't address the hearing loss, dementia can happen. Early onset of dementia. If you don't address the hearing loss, they are labeled as "violent" because they're labeled as "having Alzheimer's." So the set of issues that you see in a person later in life, and a person younger...because young students have been labeled as being "autistic" because they didn't address the fact that they had a hearing loss.

There's, you know, there's several behaviors. So it spans their lifetime, but as they begin as they end. We have the same issue, and everything in between. Working with employers, having to navigate the legal system, getting arrested, being pulled over by a police officer, and we're dealing with that now as we're setting up policy on how officers can address individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing. We hope to have a national model that's gonna come out of Kentucky. So name it. It's affected. And that's one of the biggest things that I get so much...if I can accomplish these things, if I can help change some attitudes and address the issues and the gaps between deaf and hard of hearing in some of these areas.

SCHMITT: So you mentioned, a little bit earlier, visiting your sister and going to Gallaudet. And we've talked about this over the phone and how, in terms of disability rights, what happened to Gallaudet in the late '80s. It was pivotal. And just to give some context, that there were...the student population dem...well, protested the hiring of a hearing person over this predom...well, more than predominantly, majority deaf student population. And, in some ways, it's...it's a blueprint for how students protest, too, because they have very clear demands. And, ultimately, it came out in their favor.

And I've been thinking about this with you because you are a hearing person who runs an agency that's for the deaf and hard of hearing. How do...and you talked a little bit about your relationship with at least one board member and growing through that, and kind of not seeing each other as abstract concepts but really getting to know each other's different perspectives. So how do you navigate being the leader of an agency that is designed for the deaf and hard of hearing even though you are a hearing person?

MOORE: That's a very good, and very complex, question. Yes, I was a part of the actual Gallaudet protest, the first one that they went through. It became the "Civil Rights" for the deaf and hard of hearing. It made lots of changes. They peacefully, but effectively, shut down the whole campus. My family all converged and was a part of it. There were parents that actually paid to have billboards 31:00put up that actually supported this whole need. And the protest was because they needed to...wanted to have a deaf president of the university because they had applicants, and there were two very qualified applicants, and they didn't select them. So they wanna be...they wanna have deaf individuals in leadership positions, and obviously that was the push. And that is the push. And then they had a second unrest there at the campus, and it was the same thing. So I helped with all that. I actually helped run the media and was a part of all that and everything.

And then...here I'm...I'm back at Commission on the Deaf and Hard of Hearing, and Bobbie Beth Scoggins, you know, Dr. Scoggins, I mean...she's bright, intelligent, wonderful, deaf woman. And her leadership was immense, and she helped grow the Commission. Vacates that positions and here I am as a hearing person. I struggled. I struggled taking the job. I didn't want it. I struggled 32:00today because I...there are...I have limits in this position. And because I am a hearing person, I have to constantly understand that I am a hearing person. I am accepted in the community, and I had to have conversations with the community whether I would be accepted or not. And that..and I was accepted because of my family history here in Kentucky. That's why I was accepted. My family had a history at the School for the Deaf. I was practically, you know, half-raised there. I was a part of the community, but you have to understand it's...the community...there's the actual "core." Then there's those that work with them, and then it filters out that way. I'll never be in the core because, obviously, I can't.

This goes back to who should be leading, and diversity is such an issue. So it is an on-going issue for me. Now I have maybe three to four or five years left to work because I have so many years already in. And I have assessed this position over and over again. When I go to a legislator..when..let me back up. When Bobbie Beth Scoggins went to the legislator and she brought me, the legislator saw a strong, deaf woman in front of them, and they were like, "Okay. Whoa." She's talking about these issues that affect her, and she knows firsthand, and I'm an interpreter, and they're wanting to look at me to talk. And we say, "Nope," and I have to say, "No, excuse me." And I'll actually walk around behind them so they have to face her, and it's so that they see this strong, deaf woman in front of them saying what they need.

Now I am in front of the legislators. I can't be. I put deaf...strong, deaf individuals in front of me 'cause I know that, as a leader, this is my weakness. Being hearing is a severe handicap for me. So I need to understand where I may put deaf individuals in...in front of me to have...to take the lead, and let me take the back seat and work from behind. And I think we try...I try to do that a lot. Now going forward, I am looking to try to bring in and work with an individual to eventually take over, and I hope it will be someone who is deaf or hard of hearing. I think it would be much easier. It is a...it is a very...I think about it every day. It's always on my mind. How do people perceive me? How am I perceived? What do I do?

SCHMITT: I think that's an interesting kind of...I won't call it accommodation, but...like we said navigation to lead by serving. Put somebody else in the leadership space and then interpret for them instead. That...

MOORE: You...you have to understand what...you gotta walk the talk and do the talk. If you want people to advocate for a certain role that affects them personally, then they've gotta be right there doing it. And you gotta help them do it. And that is one of the...that's...that is the core of what we do. Help people stand up and advocate for themself who are deaf or hard of hearing. And 36:00like I say, hard of hearing just as much issues.

SCHMITT: I would ask this question of anybody that had an agency like ours or the Arts Council, or Transportation based here in Frankfort because I think that we all think about this a lot. And that's...how, based in Frankfort, are you able to offer...I assume you have a statewide mission, how are you able to offer statewide delivery?

MOORE: That is...that is another big challenge all on its own. There are...I work with other states who have other directors in deaf and hard of hearing, and I...we talk a lot. I'm on the executive board there, and I make sure that I understand and learn from them. Some states have satellite offices. We're not able to do that. And we have...I have a wonderful staff of 13. We're gonna be 37:00going back up to 14. But a wonderful staff that understands the diversity needs and the needs of being able to make sure that if they are going out to eastern or western Kentucky, they have to understand the culture may be different there.

What use may...the services you provide to Louisville deaf are gonna be different from someone out in Pikeville. Trust issues might be there. Trying to...and we know that and everything, but it goes for deaf and hard of hearing as well. Trying to make sure that interpreters are provided all across the state. You don't want to take a Louisville interpreter and bring them all the way over to eastern Kentucky because some of the dialect's a little different. 38:00ASL's not universal. Some of their needs...some of their advocacy is different. Driving up in a state car is different. I mean, that's just true, what... you know, so I think your question is very true.

It filters down to us, and how do we provide these services? And internet services are not there. I know that we're gonna start talking about the COVID here soon, but that's a huge challenge. You know, they're talking about contact tracing, and I'm a part of working with them on contact tracing and making sure that when the person does go out to talk to them it has to be someone that knows that area, that understands deaf and hard of hearing. Where there's got to be a feeling of trust. So providing services statewide is a huge challenge, but we do that through different means. We go out there.

SCHMITT: I want to talk a little bit about, because this is...I won't say it's, like, a flagship program, but it is a very public-facing program of the Kentucky Commission for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing and that's DeaFestival.

MOORE: Uh huh.

SCHMITT: Tell me a little about DeaFestival and your experience with that and its value for the community.

MOORE: DeaFestival is a wonderful passion of ours. It is...we call it a "one day event," and it, you know, it's a...one and a half day event. It's like a Thanksgiving dinner. You have planning. You have planning. You have planning. Boom! It's all gone in a day and a half, you know. And everybody's consumed it. It's a fabulous opportunity for us on the...when you...when people walk in they thi...you think, "Oh, we're celebrating." We're having artists, performers come in that are deaf. Those who have booths that are painters and sculptors. Just so many variety of talents that are out there. And we bring them in, and we have two stages. One that, you know, works with children and one that works with the adults. And you would think it's just an entertainment festival time. Well, it's not. It is, but it's not.

The purpose of that festival is...I just love the fact that what DeaFestival does is it flips the world on everybody that comes in. It is an awareness. It is...shows parents for the first time. We have busloads of parents that come in. And we...they will sometimes just come. We don't know they're there because they're so worried about their child being successful, and they hear about this celebration of deafness? "DeaFestival? You're celebrating deafness? How can that be?" So they will come, and the community comes to say, "What is this?" And what they see are talented, wonderful, intelligent performers being creative, and entertaining, and they walk into this world, this silent world. We've had reporters there say, "It is amazing. It's a sea of hands." And you don't have that sound that you have, that roaring sound, of a festival. It's a silent world. Of course, there's noise there, but it is...it is such a different world.

So they walk into that, they have to rely on interpreters, and they visually watch wonderful, talented deaf and hard of hearing individuals who are able to be great mentors for their kids. And employees go, "Huh." And they say, "You know, I wanna commission some work." And that is beautiful. And yes, a deaf person can be an artist. A deaf person! We have drummers. We have people who play the guitar. We have a band that comes in. We have dancers. We have music. How can music be a part of a deaf person's life? Well, it certainly can. And so the education is so...it's wonderful because it just...and the ripple effect from it goes on, and on, and on. Parents start to see that their children are gonna be okay.

That communication can happen, and that you can do almost anything. We also bring in...beside the artists, and performers, and all that we bring in individuals that represent all different careers. We've brought in a doctor before, or a veterinarian. A pilot. And you know, it's not commercial airline, but they can fly small planes. We've brought in attorneys and architects. We had a stage one time...Kentucky Center for the Arts that Bob Hart...it was just a black, beautiful stage. It was empty, and a little boy walked out. He was seven years old, and he would say, "Hi. My name is Brandon. And I want to be a veterinarian, but they tell me I can't because I'm deaf." And then a veterinarian, who is deaf, will walk out and look down at this little boy and said, "No." And sign, and..."Hi. I'm Ellen, and I'm a veterinarian." "But you're deaf." "Yes, I am deaf. You know what? You can't lip read a dog. A dog can't tell you something." Well, we all know that, but to say it out loud, and to go, "You know, there are ways around this. You can be a veterinarian." You audibly heard parents go, "Oh, my gosh!"

So it's those moments that DeaFestival is just such a wonderful tool. It's a vehicle to bring awareness, and we just love it. Unfortunately, this year we're not gonna be able to have it, but we do love it.

SCHMITT: That's one of those...kind of a nice transition into COVID-19, but I wanna make sure that there are other initiatives that the Commission's done since you've been Executive Director that you wanna highlight.

MOORE: Well, telecommunication, and that will sort of slide into the COVID, too. Telecommunication. We provide equipment for those that are deaf or hard of hearing that are Kentuckians. And it's because...deaf and hard of hearing individuals did not have the opportunity, or don't have the opportunity, to understand how they need to have...how to access 911. How to make their own phone call. There are relay services providers out there now. So we try to 45:00bridge that gap to make sure that they can get information. They can make a telephone call. That they can be in the know and be able to support themself, if we have a disaster here.

So that's a program that I'm very proud of, and our advocacy program, trying to help individuals understand. Working with the prison system right now has been a tremendous experience. Trying to make sure that if they want a GED, that they have access to that. To make sure that if their hearing aids are broken, that they understand they need a hearing aid. We need to help them get that. So there's just several programs, and now we're trying to work more with the educational system and language acquisition. I'm very excited about trying to move into that area.

SCHMITT: So we'll transition into the pandemic since that's sort of what this is for. But I...and I wanna ask about your personal experience, and I'll model this a little bit. And I wanna ask you when, I guess, in March did you begin to realize how serious this was? I know for me it was when they told me, "You can telecommute." I never thought in a million years that a job that's tied to this building the way that it is, that they would ever let me take anything home and work on it. When did you start to realize that, "Oh, this...this is coming. And this is going to change things drastically." And maybe not know to what degree, but understanding things were never gonna...

MOORE: I don't know any of us knew to what degree that this was going to affect us. The very first time I knew that something was going on was the governor's first press conference. When he declared a state of emergency, and we're like...we'd just heard that this is coming in. And, you know, we're the United States, right? Land of...of prosperity, and we can handle this. Land of 47:00healthcare. Maybe. Or not. And we've seen our disparities now. We understand what's happening now. Or we're starting to see the weaknesses that we've had but...So, this came in like a freight train, and we're going, "Okay. Wait a minute."

So he starts with state of emergency. You don't take that lightly when some...you know, and soon as he said state of emergency, I called up the Governor's office and said, "Whoa. You called a state of emergency, and we have a whole population out there that doesn't understand this. We need to be a part of this." I did not have to advocate very much. This is the one administration that, for the first time, we had access. So, unfortunately, there were some parameters that were happening like people were starting to go out of state for spring break. And they were on the beaches, so a lot of interpreters went out of state. They were on the beaches, and they were doing things, so I'm...my access to getting interpreting for the Governor started to shrink. 'Cause I had to 48:00think, "Wait a minute. It's that bad that they have to quarantine themself?" And I'm going, "Whoa." And then it...and then it got down to where one interpreter that we have on staff was very sick. There's...she...at the time, the COVID test wasn't available, but she was very sick. So I thought, "Okay. I'm going to quarantine myself, and I'm going to work with the Governor's office." Because we're mandated to work with the Governor's office. This is something we were supposed to do, but we've never had the access. So I decided to quarantine myself just to see.

And then, obviously, they started telling people to work from home, and you're right. Our jobs are tied to this building. And I'm thinking, "Work from home? How?" We have a video phone that's tied here. Well, that video phone and all the equipment went to somebody's house. All the red tape of being able to telemedicine, telecommute was cut in a matter of days. We flipped everybody. We said, "Yeah." Within two weeks everybody could work from home. We were doing, you know, we were looking into telemedicine. Everybody was doing this platform called Zooming. You know, and call...and Team, Microsoft Teams. And if I could have gotten stock in Zoom when it was...it was...it was, like, 50 cents or less than that. You can't even touch it now. [Laughs]

So it's just amazing how the world flipped so fast. And we just walked in at the beginning, and I knew then something was going on. The frenzy at the Capitol was evident. Evident. And when they tell you now that they were getting statistical data that meant we would lose 30, 40,000 people to COVID for death was true. They were...they were panic...panicked is not the right word. Extremely concerned. And they were...it was a flourish of trying to get things going. So when you walked into the Governor's office in the Capitol, and you're going, "Wow." The tension was high. The stakes were unreal. I knew then. I knew then that we were in for a huge change.

SCHMITT: What were some of the particular concerns around COVID for the deaf and hard of hearing? I know you mentioned, obviously, the Governor's address, something that a hearing person has access to every night at 5 o'clock. You know, they...captioning helps, but it's not the full picture. What were some other concerns during the pandemic that are particular to that...those communities?

MOORE: I could not phantom the idea of...they were sending kids home from school systems. So, and this is no fault to parents who do their best to raise their child, some parents, especially those that send them to the School for the Deaf, do not have...know of sign language themself. So communication is not as easy with their children. And then the NTI, which is the Non-Traditional Instruction, had to happen. And the parents didn't know how, you know, they don't necessarily have that connection to teach their child. That's what Kentucky School for the Deaf did. The fear that those students were just gonna be left sitting at home without communication was immense. So, you know, we reached out trying to set up video conversations, trying to give those parents assistance. That is, and still is, a very much of a fear that child going back to their community being the only deaf child in their own household, but even in the community in some communities. And the isolation that that child feels.

Getting the information out to seniors that might be homebound, and how do they communicate out what their needs are? And to say, "Don't go out." You know, don't...making sure they understand the severity of it. Because as you're standing there next to the Governor in the Capitol, and you know the tension, and you feel it. And when I'm interpreting his words, I wanna make sure they get 53:00it. And the fear that those words won't come out as...as...as they're intended the way he says it is just tremendous because I just...because I get it, but I wanna make sure the community gets it. And what support will they have?

Then the masks started happening. Then everybody had to start using the mask. You essentially just gagged the world from talking to a deaf person. It's not the deaf person that has the issue with the mask. They can use it. It's us around them. Going to the grocery store and the person has the mask on, checking you out. This is one of the stories that happened, and they asked me for an interview to talk about this situation. And that is she went through the check-out; the lady was trying to communicate something to her, and she couldn't get it because she had a mask on. She couldn't read lips. And she didn't take time to write it down, so she just said, "Never mind," and waved her hands at her, and said, "Never mind. Go on." Well, this particular deaf person just walked out of the store just bawling because she just felt like she needed to know something. Couldn't get the communication. She was isolated. She was walking around in a world that is as...has been literally removed from her in so many ways. And that gets to me.

You know, so we're desperately trying to figure out clear masks. And that's not as easy to develop. They're...most of them are one-time. You can't clean 'em. They fog up. So we're working to get anti-fog clear masks that can be cleaned and used, and I've got two right now that just came into my office as samples. We're desperate to get that. So getting the information out to the deaf and hard of hearing community just...it's so many different ways. So many different ways.

I have a...made a connection with a woman who did a video in a nursing home. I did not know she...we try to know who's deaf or hard of hearing in nursing homes because they're isolated anyway. And Miss Jackie...they did a little skit, and an older gentleman was acting like Andy Beshear, the Governor. And Miss Jackie was sitting there in her wheelchair signing like me. It just touched me. Just tore me up. And they were...they had...they were saying, "We're gonna be okay. I know you can't come and see us, but we're gonna be fine." Because the Governor had closed down visitation, and I called her and sent her a video. And apparently that video went viral. My intent was to make a connection with her, 56:00but when it went viral I was like, "Oh, I didn't mean that." But it just showed to the community that the isolation is so severe, and then here she is in a nursing home that nobody can visit. Everybody is hearing except for her. Well, she ended up getting COVID, and several individuals, but she has just recovered. She sent me another picture of her walking out saying, "I'm ready to meet Virginia," and she is recovered. And we've talked on FaceTime, and I'm trying to get her some other equipment that she might need.

So it is just a heart wrenching if you can't solve some of these problems during this time of COVID. It's such a separation from people. You can't touch. You know, you can't...you know, you've gotta use a mask. So communication is limited. Yes. The deaf and hard of hearing is going...they're going through COVID just like you, but they're going through it just a little bit harder.

SCHMITT: And you kind of mentioned that you became part of the Governor's evening address team by--

MOORE: [Laughs] Yes.

SCHMITT: ...by enacting a mandate, but, you know, recognizing that there was a need, and that it was a little easier in this...well, maybe a lot easier, who knows. Different levels of ease with different levels...with different administrations, right?

MOORE: Right.

SCHMITT: I wonder, when did you realize...because we've talked about this before. You're not really connected to social media. That's not, you know...

MOORE: Right.

SCHMITT: And you didn't imagine yourself to be a viral video star. But when did you start to realize that you had become a source of comfort or familiarity to all Kentuckians that were going through this. Not just members of the community that communicate with ASL.

MOORE: Yeah. Team Kentucky. Very interesting concept. The Governor started that concept when he first came in. That was the absolute...everybody changed their letterhead. Everything went from "Unbridled Spirit" to "Team Kentucky." And I thought, "Okay. Team Kentucky." Well, there's never been more true about that term than when the COVID hit. There was the Governor. There I am. There's Kenneth who did the slides. Everybody understands...and then there's James. And he's got other individuals that are there not...not actually named or hasn't become a social media craze like Kenneth, or myself, or what have you. It was a shock to me, and it was amazing that...and I had to talk myself through it. It actually was a comfort. People were wanting to learn more about sign language, more about access.

And the Governor took comfort in that, too. And he wanted to highlight the individuals needs. They're home. They can't do anything. And they watch us every day, and it's Andy, and Virginia, and Kenneth at 5:00. There's t-shirts. I'm getting my own bobblehead, for Heaven's sakes. I'm getting two of them, actually. And there's all kinds of memes that came out. I didn't know these things.

I first got an inkling when the Governor said to me, "Virginia, can you come over here and teach us a little sign language?" Which was very difficult because an interpreter...ethics...we're driven by ethics. So for me to have walked from my spot as an interpreter to over to the podium to actually, in essence, become a teacher was not ethically appropriate for an interpreter because they need to 60:00stay in one role so the deaf individuals can count on what they're doing. And here you are, on this spot, the Governor says, "Can you come over here? I'm gonna switch places with ya," and I'm like, "Uh." Of course, you're not gonna say, "No! I'm sorry. Can't because..." And I said, "Sure."

SCHMITT: He's your boss. [Laughs]

MOORE: Yeah, he's my boss. So I went over there, and he said, "Can you teach us how to say 'We're gonna get through this together'?" And that became this symbol sign, and that became this symbol of everything he tried to do. And he included the deaf and hard of hearing. Well, after that it went crazy, and I realized now I had to deal with an ethical break that nobody knows about except for me. And I've dealt with it, but I was questioned ethically. Everybody has their protestors outside the window. That's just the way it is. So I had to deal with that, but I still...but I...and I stay in my place now, and he asks me his questions about signing and everything. And that's how it went. But the craze was after that. My friends, "You don't have Facebook, Virginia. But you got to 61:00see this. You don't have this, but you gotta see this. You don't have..." And I was seeing all this stuff and just wonderful things. Artists doing murals. Including me in Famous Women in Kentucky. What? You know, when did that happen? I don't know, but the highlight of that is not me.

It's what happened, and what individuals now, when they see a deaf person...there was a father of a coworker. Somebody that has worked for us forever as far as a volunteer. Wonderful man. Suspected to have COVID. Collapsed. Was taken to the hospital. Deaf. We're like, "What are we gonna do?" You know, "How do we get him assistance?" So we had to bring in video interpreters and all that. He was scared to death. He couldn't have family. Didn't know what to do, and I FaceTimed in with him, and he looked at me and he teared up. And I was just like...he said, "Virginia, the very first nurse that came in, completely garbed up--face shield, mask, gown, everything--signed to me, 'We will get through this together.'" I teared up because he said when she did that, it gave him a sense of "They get it. They understand me." I may not 62:00have an interpreter right here a hundred percent, but we're gonna get through this together. The compassion, the sense, that's what it's about.

When I stoo...when I stand there, and I'm a part of this team, and all these memes, and all these things come out. I mean, they're fabulous, but what they have rippled out to be is to have a healthcare walk in and sign that, and that's his first...to put him at ease. That's what it's about. Just compassion. Just showing people that we communicate in different ways, and doing sign language, or just having that little bit of understanding, opens up so much more and allows people to take a breath, when taking a breath is the hardest thing to do at that very moment.

SCHMITT: I think, and this might be speculating a little bit, but one of the reasons why people are connecting so much with you is that Governor Beshear is a politician, and he's a leader. And even if he's raging mad about something that's happened, he can't get up to that podium and just spout off all the vitriol that we might feel about something. And so people were able to express 64:00that...early on with some folks not doing the appropriate measures to keep us all safe, like what was...bingo parlors or what happened.

MOORE: [Laughs]

SCHMITT: And so people would, you know, they would make memes. Superimpose you, and Governor Beshear, and Dr. Stack, you know, kind of chasing someone down withm baseball bats, and sort of...

MOORE: [Laughs]

SCHMITT: ...and I think one thing is that because people think of ASL as being something done exclusively with hands. I think what they're learning is that the expression is just as important. That you're talking with your full...the upper part of your body.

MOORE: Uh huh. Uh huh.

SCHMITT: And the times where Governor Beshear had to say something very emphatically or felt anger...when he was unable to express that, ASL couldn't help but express that. It's...

MOORE: [Laughs]

SCHMITT: ...it's part of the language. It would be...

MOORE: You're so right!

SCHMITT: ...it would be missing from the interpretation, if it were gone. And I think there are those memes of him saying sternly, but with a very clay face because he's a smart politician. But with you making the appropriate face for...for...

MOORE: [Laughs]

SCHMITT: ...for his meaning. I think that everybody was very glad to see...when they're feeling emotive, when they're scared, and they're angry...somebody else that, you know...he was able to maintain his needed staunch leadership but still put people at ease by having the appropriate emotion in the room is what I think I'm trying to say.

MOORE: That is an interesting perspective, but very true, I think. I never...I never knew that more than when the parlor...the bingo hall. And then the corona party vi...

SCHMITT: Yes.

MOORE: Coronavirus party. I received a phone call from HBO's John Oliver, and he is a poli...comedi...comedic politician. He's...he does satire on politics and what's happening. They wanted my permission to use a clip of me interpreting for the Governor. And I was like, "Uh...wait a minute." You know, "What?" So I had to tell the Governor's communication office that they wanted you to do this like, "Eh..." And said, "Well, Virginia." And I said, "Well, I don't know. Something about the corona party. Virus party." "That's okay." And I said, "Okay," and they said, "Well, we'll be...we'll be...sensitive." But they had another interpreter out in California view what I was saying.

Now you know that interpreters in other situations have been...Nelson Mandela was probably the worst. The interpreter they got for Nelson Mandela did not know sign language. He was signing gibberish. And at the beginning of that funeral, even I...myself here we were all like, "No!" And he was standing right next to Obama doing something that was out of...he was out of his mind. And everybody was trying to stop it because he...he was just signing gibberish. Well, that created this sense of, "Uh...is that interpreter professional or not?" During hurricane season in Florida, unfortunately they got a friend of someone who works there that happened to know some sign. And this poor guy was just...I mean, he was ridiculed. He was horrible. They just...the community just gave Florida heck. Because they couldn't understand him. And he couldn't keep up with it. Unfortunately, he took the job, but he never had any right doing it.

So I worry about the perspective...the perception of people. So when they did this, I went, "Eh." But what happened was, they caught me with my hands out and my facial expression of, "What the crap?" You know, "What the heck?" And the Governor was...actually had his hands up, too, but his face was just like you say.

SCHMITT: Stoic.

MOORE: Yeah. Staunch. He...he had that very nice politician kind of face, and he was trying not to show so much emotion, but his hands didn't and his voice didn't. Well, I had to, like you said. It's a perfect interpretation. And John Oliver, when they did do it, he said, ".gif this woman because what she's actually saying is, 'WTF!'" And I was like, "Oh, no!" And, of course, it's HBO. They can say whatever they want. And four days later...I did tell his staff, and they were like, "Eh." You know, I don't know if he saw it. You know, "Wha...we'll look at it." And I'm like, "Oh." Four days later, the Governor walks up. He has a sense of humor. And he sort of half-leaned over in my direction, and he goes, "John Oliver, huh?" And I went, "Ah! Yes!" So, yes.

That facial expression...and everybody keeps asking me...I cannot be...I'm only as good as the Governor. I'm only as calm as the Governor. And my facial expression and tones is a part of my expression. Is his tone. Is his sense of what he's trying to convey. So as every...you know, I may not be the best interpreter in the world. I try. And you have to take all of that into consideration when you're communicating this.

So it is facial expressions. It's even the tip of the shoulder. It's even moving forward when...to make an emphasis. It's signing bigger when you're wanting to make it a point, and it's signing smaller when things are...we he talks about the loss of Kentuckians, and he gets very emotional about that. That's hard. Very hard. He does get emotional when he has to talk about the number of Kentuckians that we've lost to this COVID. And he gets very quiet, and it's very sincere. And I have to convey that. That...it's a challenge.

SCHMITT: You...you did mention a couple of pivotable...pivotal, or memorable, or emotional moments in the past few months, but I want to ask you about one in particular. And you probably know...so interpreting someone speaking, a politician, is one set of skills. Interpreting theatre, the arts, and music is a whole other set of skills. There are interpreters that do that, I won't say exclusively, but they have to have additional training to do that. How did you prepare to interpret "You're the One That I Want" from Grease?

MOORE: [Laughs]

SCHMITT: And to give some context there, the McCracken County High School had prepared to do a performance of Grease. And, of course, because public gatherings were abolished to keep everyone safe, they weren't able to do it. But they did a kind of tremendous...

MOORE: So creative.

SCHMITT: ...remote Zoom version of that song, and Governor Beshear was highlighting different things that folks were doing around the state. You know, essentially saying, "See? In lockdown we can still..." He would have never called it "lockdown," but..."See? In isolation keeping it healthy at home."

MOORE: Healthy at home!

SCHMITT: Healthy at home!

MOORE: Healthy at home!

SCHMITT: Yes! Sorry. Hashtag healthy at home!

MOORE: Hashtag healthy at home!

SCHMITT: These are the ways that we are able to still connect with one another. And you...maybe didn't have to, but you interpreted that. The lyrics of the song.

MOORE: No, I had to because...

SCHMITT: [Laughs]

MOORE: ...that is the job. This was this...one of the smartest things that the Governor has done. He asked young people to be creative, and knowing that they are, and they can. And they came up with that wonderful Zoom rendition of Grease. I unfortunately had no idea it was coming. That is not a...that's not the best thing in the world to have happen! Typically, you do plan. I have 72:00do...I...some of my background is theatre. And I do love doing theatrical interpreting, but it takes prep. You gotta know what's coming. You gotta...I did not know it was coming, unfortunately. I did grow up loving Grease, but "shana lana lana eh" does not interpret well. And so I was...I was taken by surprise and decided just to throw it out there and do the best I can because that is, you know, that's your job.

And these students were doing such a bang-up job, and I felt...I would have felt horrible if I didn't at least give it the old try. You know, of course, a lot of people would have done it different or whatever. I just did what I knew. But it was a shocker, and it, apparently, just did resonate with a lot of people and those students. You wanna make sure that everybody who's doing something beautiful and creative...it gets conveyed to the whole community. Yeah, the deaf community, too.

SCHMITT: And you talked about deafness as...as being culture. And I'm wondering, you know, COVID-19 has changed our culture. We probably...we will not be shaking hands any time ever again.

MOORE: I can't imagine.

SCHMITT: We...there are a lot of things that we may, you know, there...you mentioned earlier that we probably won't see a public pool for at least two years until there's a vaccine that is equitably available to enough people to make it safe. But how has deaf culture changed? Has...I know, you know, we...there are things that have entered our vernacular that we, you know, wouldn't have said before. Are there new signs, essentially, that have happened because of COVID-19?

MOORE: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. "Social distancing." No, that's not a part of our...for one thing, deaf...deaf culture, they're huggers. You know, they don't just shake hands. If they first meet you, they may hug you because it's very...it's very important for them to make that connection with a person. Eye contact. They hug. You know, and when you wanna get somebody's attention, they will tap you. They will...they will...so touch is a very important part of this, so that's social distancing. Six feet. Really? What is that? What is social distancing?

The word COVID didn't have a sign. I had to spell it, give it an idea, communicate the sign...I'm...I don't develop the signs. The signs come out of the deaf community. Once it did, we had to integrate that, and then I had to start educating Kentuckians. This is the COVID sign. This is what we're using now. "Face mask." Just the idea of...of...of the different kinds of face masks. I mean, there's the kinds with the string. So you have the kinds that you pull 75:00up. You have the kinds that you wear this way. So, you know, so you had to understand when you said "face mask," I almost have to do three. Sometimes you'll see me go like this. So there's that kind. There's this kind. Now there's this kind.

And, so, yes. The terminology, the vernacular, the words that we're using...I had to educate myself quickly. Sometimes they will say some things, then I will go on YouTube and look that word up in sign and say, "Hey. Is somebody come up with a sign for that?"

You know, so that I can say, "Okay, there isn't a sign." Who did it? Did it come out of Gallaudet? Did it come out of the National Association for the Deaf? Was that...is that person reputable in the deaf community? Okay, fine. I'm on it. So then I use it, and we have to share that...that...that way of signing that word. So...

SCHMITT: Does Governor Beshear have a name? Is he...is he...

MOORE: You know what?

SCHMITT: ...spelled? Or is he...

MOORE: He is spelled. Someone has not given him a name. They gave Dr. Stack a name.

SCHMITT: Ah.

MOORE: Dr. Stack is the bow tie. It's a bow tie that you come out with two fingers, you know, at the bottom of your neck. That's "Dr. Stack." And I told him that somebody came out with "Dr. Stack" for you. He loves it 'cause he says he does love his bow ties.

SCHMITT: It's an honor.

MOORE: It is an honor.

SCHMITT: Yeah.

MOORE: It is an honor to have a sign name.

SCHMITT: And I think I just threw that out there, but that's something that's important to mention is that you don't...you can't just give...you can spell your name.

MOORE: Uh huh.

SCHMITT: But you don't just give yourself a sign as a hearing person.

MOORE: Uh uh.

SCHMITT: That's something bestowed on you in the deaf community, if there's a...if they're talking about you enough in a pos...well, you can get a negative one, too. I've seen those.

MOORE: Oh, yeah.

SCHMITT: If they're talking about you enough in the deaf community that you warrant having something not spelled, so I was just curious.

MOORE: Absolutely. I have yet to see Governor Beshear have a sign name. I mean, when we say "governor," of course, "governor" has a name. But him himself, I'm waiting. He...he...he's such a compassionate person, but, you know...and names sometimes will come out of a characteristic of a person. So we're just waiting to see.

SCHMITT: He is his office, too, so truly "governor" for now is--

MOORE: Yes, yes.

SCHMITT: ...but it would be, regardless.

MOORE: And that's sort of how I think he's regarded as.

SCHMITT: Speaking of Dr. Stack...

MOORE: Uh huh.

SCHMITT: ...and...and some of the thing...it seems like there's been several ways that you have been able to leverage this relationship that you wouldn't have had otherwise with both the Governor and Dr. Stack. What are some interesting things that have come out to having this new proximity that you might not have had.

MOORE: You're absolutely right. Dr. Stack and Commissioner Eric Friedlander...Secretary Eric Friedlander. Secretary. The Education...Health Cabinet. Family and Health Cabinet. So with Dr. Stack and Eric Friedlander, I was able to work with them and say, "Okay. Wait. We're going to have drive-thru COVID testing. We need to make sure deaf and hard of hearing can be communicated with...instructions." So they're gonna tell them to put that swab up their nose themself, how far, and all that instructions. And they're gonna try to no touch. How're they gonna do that? So we quickly developed a point...photo...a picture point of the COVID testing, so when they ask ya, "You have a fever? How many days?" How you've, you know...

SCHMITT: I'm gonna pause for a second. Apparently I have a full card.

MOORE: Okay. Sure.

SCHMITT: For me. We'll...I'll ask that question again, and we can come back...

MOORE: Sure, sure.

SCHMITT: ...to it.

MOORE: It's a good question, though.

SCHMITT: Yeah. This has never happened to me before. [Laughs]

MOORE: I talk too much.

SCHMITT: No, ma'am. I just had to make sure I had enough data on there. I'm recording at a really high bitrate, too.

MOORE: Okay.

SCHMITT: 'Cause...and that one is still going just fine. Now I gotta find a card in all of this madness. In an office that I haven't been in in...

MOORE: Yeah. Right.

SCHMITT: ...who knows how long.

MOORE: Is this going the way you...

SCHMITT: Oh, yeah. It's...I'm out of practice, too, so...

MOORE: Oh, you're asking great questions. You're leading me right through this. But just let me know if I get too far off. 'Cause, you know, I'm...

SCHMITT: I think it's fantastic.

MOORE: You know, I see this set-up at the Capitol, too, and it's interesting. I'm learning so much more about the technology and...and at first, I was this...I was right next to the Governor on stage. And then they had to...KET had to actually purchase a whole new system for me.

SCHMITT: Hm. Oh. Let me make sure this all still sounds good to me, and it does.

MOORE: Okay.

SCHMITT: And we're recording again.

MOORE: Okay.

SCHMITT: We always were on all this. So we were talking about Dr. Stack and having proximity to the Governor and Dr. Stack, and I was wondering about the ways that you have been able to leverage that relationship that you wouldn't have had otherwise.

MOORE: Absolutely. Both Dr. Stack and Eric Friedlander, Secretary Friedlander...what...what has been really good is that Dr. Stack, he is a tremendous individual. He is so intelligent on this field. We're lucky to have him. But, you know, as they've talked about, like, the drive-thru COVID testing, and communicating with individuals who may be deaf or hard of hearing during a drive-thru COVID testing telling them that, you know, "You need to take this swab a little bit farther. Have you had a fever? How do you feel?" and all these things. And it's like, "Okay. How are they gonna do that when someone is deaf or hard of hearing?" So I went to Dr. Stack, and he was just like, "Uh. Okay." And he's very open.

And so we created a communication...COVID communication card, and we provided it to him and his office, and he got on that as much as he could. Then, of course, testing we've got...the number of testing had grown. So now it's on our website, and I tell deaf and hard of hearing individuals, "Download this. Put it on your phone. Take it somewhere. Take...print it. Bring it with you when you take the COVID test."

I have been able to work with him on face shields and masks for deaf and hard of hearing. We developed a relationship with the engineering department at University of Louisville, and they're now trying to develop a face shield that would suffice instead of using the mask. So I've been able to work with Dr. Stack on that. Some of the terminology that he has that he's had to use to get the information out, and then to work with hospitals that he has to. And then as they're going into nursing homes, you know, I've been able to educate them, and it's a tremendous...they now make that a part of their thinking when they're trying to address a community as a whole. With Eric Friedlander it's the same. You know, working with him as far as nursing homes and what they're having to do there. And making sure communication is clear.

Also with Commissioner Michael Brown, who is working with the prison system. That has been another area and...and talking to them as they separated the prisoners into certain areas. We have letters that we get weekly from prisoners on certain things that they need and everything. Well, when they moved prisoners, they didn't move their accessibility devices with them. So I kept saying, "Don't forget. You know, when you do this, you've got to move it. They 83:00need this accessibility. They need to have access, too" If you're gonna let them now make more phone calls home...'cause that was a part of it. No visitors to the prison system, they made more phone calls home. "Do you have...did you move the video system? Do you have a video system? Let me help you get a video system." That video system now will be there forever.

So that's...those are some changes that we've been able to make. And those are...those are the...due to my contact with them, I do leverage...that's not a good word, but I do take advantage of it, that's for sure. And say, "You know, what else can we do?" So absolutely. It's been a fabulous time of doing that.

SCHMITT: Yeah. Yeah, no. I see "leverage." I'm sure it's got a lot of negative connotations. You're really just, you know, making sure that you don't miss an opportunity if...if...if you have it. 'Cause there have been so many obviously terrible life changes we've all had to make because of COVID, and this kinda goes into my next question. There have been some things that people have experienced during COVID, especially those who, fortunately, have been able to miss the illness in their lives and in their families' lives that have been good. Some things that we don't wanna go back to the...some changes. And I'm wondering, what are some changes...and this can be...this could relate to the deaf and hard of hearing communities or just, you know, personally. What are some things that you hope become permanent?

MOORE: Well, it's interesting. I just wrote an article, and this is the year of 2020, right? 20/20 is supposed to be perfect vision. And our vision for this world, for this year of 2020 should be beautiful. We should have a perfect vision of what we're going and where we're going. All of that was just blown to heck. Our vision is, you know, we're looking for those rose-colored glasses. We're trying to then figure out whe...this perfect vision is not happening. We're in a whole different field. The one thing...well, there's a couple of 85:00things that have happened. Telecommuting, you know. I think that's gonna be here to stay for a lot of state agencies. I find it very interesting they just finished all these buildings and the...

SCHMITT: [Unintelligible]

MOORE: ...yeah. Nobody can use them right now because of the way the cubicles are set up. They're not, you know...and we've had flu seasons. You know, and we always worried because we've had extensive flu seasons that kill just as...you know, not as many, but that kill individuals as well. And it's very detrimental to some people's health who are vulnerable. So that's an issue. Well, the other thing that's come about is telemedicine. So...and telehealth through...for mental health. So we couldn't do that for many years. We've been pushing for it. The red tape. The this. The needs. We don't have the platform...HIPAA won't accept it. There's all kinds of red tape that we've been trying to go through to say, "You know, telemedicine maybe some of it...maybe work." All of that was cut in two to three weeks. Bam! Everything flipped.

We're in telemedicine right now, and I've been told by lots of experts that telemedicine's here to stay. And for our community, that can be good and it can be bad. But there is one nugget there, and that is when you go into an office you tell a doctor you need an interpreter, well, they think they can write notes. Sometimes they don't get it. We have to advocate. So the first time you're there, they're trying to write notes. The second time you go, they say, 87:00"Well, let's use Siri." And that's...third time, they go, "Let's use VRI," which is video remote interpreting. But they don't have the bandwidth, so the person is staggered, you know, and they're jerky, and you can't understand it. Finally, they bring in an interpreter. So that's harder. When you're going on a Zoom platform, or if you have telemedicine, you gotta have an interpreter. And the bandwidths are always higher. Everybody upgraded their bandwidth so it's a little bit clearer. It's a little bit easier.

So now you telemedicine, and there's an interpreter. There's captioners that some...the hard of hearing individuals never had captioning. You can caption now. So those are some of the nice changes that we've had. Video remote interpreting in the hospitals have been there, but they've never dedicated bandwidth. It's always been jerky. It's been bad. They dedicated bandwidth to it 88:00now, and it's improved. It's not the best solution. We still want a live interpreter. You...you can't have video remote interpreting when you're trying to give birth.

SCHMITT: No.

MOORE: And they do that. They try to. You can't. If you're going to have a CAT scan, and you're inside the machine, you can't have wha...they can't have video remote interpreting. You have to have a live person. So there's areas where it won't work, but they made strides in this. Mental health. I'm just...I'm releasing now a whole series on mental health, and deaf and hard of hearing, and telemedicine, and how they're using remote to try to get more mental health services. The stigma of going into the office, or trying to make sure they have an interpreter they're comfortable with, or connecting to a deaf mental health service provider that we may have in-state or out-of-state. Now we have the option of doing that.

'Cause if we don't have the resources, we can reach outside our borders because the connections that we have with these different platforms that we can use...they go outside our borders. So those are some golden nuggets that you can pull from this whole thing. Some of the...the fact that interpreters now are not viewed as an inconvenience, an expensive thing, but as a part of a true communication system. That's a huge golden nugget. That's a huge golden nugget.

SCHMITT: They're almost fashionable right now.

MOORE: Almost! [Laughs] When a deaf person then goes in says, "I need an interpreter." They go, "Oh, well, I know who that is. I've seen one. Yes! Okay. Fine. We got it. We got it." Instead of saying, "No." And that went statewide. East to west. And that's a gold nugget, but there are small things here to stay. The family time people had...staying at home with their families. I think the fact that they had to put their phone down. But now some of us are in Zoom 90:00meetings all day long, and that's a pain.

But fathers, and mothers, and children play games 'cause there was nothing else they could do. They figured out what they could do outside. They took walks together. That's tremendous. Some of the compassion that people show to each other is tremendous. So there are some things here to stay I hope that will always stay.

There are some things that we know that need to go away, but, you know, everybody wants to give each other a hug. We miss that. We miss that in our community especially. And we talk about, you know, when you see each other it feels so sterile. We gotta give each other a hug, you know. When can you do that? And I don't know. We don't want that to go away.

SCHMITT: It might even be more common. At least you're not touching hands.

MOORE: Yeah. [Laughs] True. And that elbow bump is--

SCHMITT: Yeah.

MOORE: ...is starting to come out, you know.

SCHMITT: Well, and I think that's really all the questions that I had. I have one more, and I feel like we...we talked about this a little bit, but I was wondering if you had anything to add. I know you didn't really ask for the spotlight. That it was...it was, you know, truly a...part...it was mission-based for you to be there and a mandate. But how do you think this time, in a reluctant spotlight, has helped further the Commission's mission?

MOORE: It was questioned on whether I should do this or be the executive...viewed...be viewed as an Executive Director or be viewed as an interpreter. And I had to work hard to make sure that I was viewed as both. And I...and I...I worried about taking this spotlight. Well, I worried about taking the position, especially when the spotlight started to come on me. That's when my worry happened, and I kept thinking, "Well, you know what? I don't want the spotlight to be on Virginia Moore as the interpreter." You know, "Virginia Moore does this." But...and I had to talk myself through it, but then when the interviews started asking...I got interviews from, "Well, you know, Virginia you're out there. You're Team Kentucky. People are..." "Yeah, I am. I'm with the Kentucky Commission on the Deaf and Hard of Hearing, and there's 700,000 deaf and hard of hearing. And we need to provide services." I had the opportunity. The door was open for me to ed...pardon me...educate everybody.

And that's the greater good out of this, you know. I'm not always a spotlight person. I really like behind-the-scenes. I loved working behind-the-scenes. When I became the Executive Director it was not always the most comfortable position, but...because interpreters are behind-the-scenes, really. They...you may see them out front, but they're only providing the communication bridge. So when the hype happened, I just didn't know how to take it. T-shirts. I was not going to do the bobblehead, but what happened with the bobblehead is that they allowed me to take some of that fundraiser money and put it towards the School for the Deaf to buy clear masks...and for students and teachers when they come back. Well, that's an opportunity I'm not gonna miss. So, yes. I will have a bobblehead bouncing around with my big head, and people thumpin' it. [Laughs] You know, if I see one going past me in a car, I'm gonna go, "Oh, geesh." But I know that that bobblehead went and bought masks for somebody. So, yes. I'm okay with it.

If I could add before we close out. There's so many things that happened in the year of 2020, and the vision that, you know, is supposed to be...there is not only COVID, but we have moved into the "I Can't Breathe." The whole racism and how we've affect...been affected by that. And "I Can't Breathe" is an interesting...if you look at that with COVID, people can't breathe. COVID smothers a person, and they can't literally breathe. With the facts that we've had to make all these changes and some people are so...there are people that have no family with them at home. They're isolated. They can't breathe because they're alone, and they can't be a part of something. They have to isolate. Using masks has separated people from each other, and they can't breathe.

And we knew that these were issues. But now we know this whole thing happened, and a Black man died. Screaming he can't breathe. He spoke for the nation. And it's time for us to figure out what are we going to do as a nation to bridge everybody. I know this is about racism. I know this is about this Black man's life. I know it's about Black Lives Matter. We have got to take Black Lives Matter and the fact that "I Can't Breathe" and understand that that actually is an analogy of everything we're going through. We are all feeling strangled. We can't breathe.

And we all have to show the compassion. We all have to be a part of this. We have to be a part of an answer, and I think that if we could for the deaf and hard of hearing...we've always gotta open those doors. For the Black community, we've gotta open those doors. So it's...it's a...there's no old normal. There's no normal. We've got to find a new normal, and it's got to be a new world. So everything we're experiencing in being a small part of Team Kentucky allows me to be a little part of that new world. To try to design a new place for us. To try to design a new...more accepting, compassionate, and just diverse world. It's an opportunity for us all, not just for one. For everybody. And for me to be a part...a little part of that is...is tremendous. That's...that's a true honor.

SCHMITT: I think that's the best way to wrap it up. [Laughs]

MOORE: Okay.

SCHMITT: Alright. Well, thank you, Virginia. And thanks for letting me record this, and...looking forward to a newly designed world.