Oral History Interview with Judd Weaver

START OF INTERVIEW 1:00Judd Weaver: My name is Judd Weaver. We're located at 530 Hal Rodgers Drive. It's the London-Corbin Airport. And I'm the owner of the business.

Sara Wood: And can you tell me your birth date for the record?

JW: July 27, 1968.

SW: Can you walk me back to the history of the beginning of Weaver's. Can you tell me how it started?

JW: Now you’ll edit and do all of this? I got to scratch my— okay say it again, I'm sorry.

SW: There might be some times, like if the phone rings, that I might just have you repeat something. Can you walk me back to the beginning of the business? How did Weaver's start?

JW: We were started with my grandfather, Carl Weaver. 2:00And it started in 1940. Actually he bought a recipe in 1939, late 1939. And he bought it from a gentleman trying to make his way back home. And my grandfather took the recipe, tweaked it just a little bit, and then started Weaver's Chili in 1940.

SW: Do you know the name of the guy who was trying to make his way back home?

JW: No. He was Hispanic.

SW: Oh really! Do you know where he was from?

JW: I have no idea.

SW: 3:00So was he going back to Mexico?

JW: I think that he was actually trying to get to Canada. He had lived, he had came from Canada, if I am not mistaken.

SW: Oh wow! And so he was trying to go back there?

JW: Yes.

SW: And do you know if he sold the chili locally around Laurel County at all?

JW: No he did not. This was out west where they met, and I'm not for sure where. Maybe California.

SW: Wow! So your grandfather, was he from out west originally?

JW: No, he's from Laurel County.

SW: How did he end up out west?

JW: On a family vacation. He traveled there— he had family outside of Los Angeles that lived there. So, he visited often, and my father talks about the trips he took when he was young.

SW: 4:00Do you remember what he told you about the trips?

JW: That they were long. But beautiful. And that's about all that he remembered. He remembered the wine vineyards that they had as a business and they ran that business and are still running that business today, in California.

SW: What is it called?

JW: I have no idea. I’m not close to ‘em at all. The one person that had a little bit of a tie with passed away two years ago. And he would actually travel, you know, from California back to Kentucky where he was from, born and raised.

SW: Was he from Laurel County?

JW: Yes. Yeah.

SW: Now, I only have a couple of more questions about your grandfather. Did he have a chili recipe? Do you know how he came across this particular man's chili? Was he wowed by it?

JW: 5:00I think that the gentlemen approached my grandfather. And my grandfather was a very generous, good-hearted man. He was former military and a good businessman. But he ran into him. The guy told him, I need some money, I’ll sell you a recipe that you can take back to Kentucky and make a living with." And he said, Sure! And I think it was like twenty-five dollars.

SW: And so what happened after that? He came back to Kentucky?

JW: Well he came back from the vacation— or his travel— and he owned a business on Main Street. And it used to be a pool room. And there were, at one time, ten pool tables. But he started selling the chili right there.

SW: In the pool room?

JW: 6:00Before it was hamburgers and just typical hotdogs and things, and then he changed the chili with that recipe and got it going.

SW: Now we don't ask people to give out the recipes because the secret nature of it, but could you describe— if you know— what the difference was? Not necessarily precisely how he tweaked it, but could you, in general, speak to any differences between what he was doing before—

JW: I have no idea. The only thing that I have is I have a copy of the original recipe. And that's what I follow everyday. From that time— from around 1940.

SW: Is it highly guarded?

JW: Yes, it is. [Laughs.]

SW: Does it have a combination on it that you need to open it?

JW: Pretty much. [Laughs.] That's exactly right. [Laughs]

SW: Now, Judd, could you tell me a little bit about the pool hall that he had? What was called? Where was it?

JW: 7:00It was called Weaver's Pool Room. And it was located on Main Street— where it always was until the fire. And it was there seventy-five years. And, I lost track of the question.

SW: You were talking about the pool hall history—

JW: I'm humming too much, aren't I?

SW: No, you're fine.

JW: I'm just tired. I'm exhausted.

SW: In the poolroom, let me think here a minute. The poolroom was looked upon as— later on, in the seventies—it’s not a good place for families. And I'll say that very closed in my statement. But it was viewed upon the citizens of London, not a good place for women, and especially girls. And so my Uncle Drew got rid of that pool room - sold all of the tables and sold half of the building to a clothing company, Bob's Ready To Wear. And, then he made it just strictly a restaurant with no pool table, and it was called Weaver's Hotdogs. 8:00But the history of the pool room, there are a lot of stories, a lot of history. It's amazing. When we did the renovation, when I bought it from my Uncle Drew in 2011, we did a full renovation. And the things that we found were incredible.

SW: What did you find?

JW: 9:00We found old liquor bottles. We found shell casings from pistols. We found, oh, you name it: glassware, pottery, all kinds of things that were just really neat. But I had several prized possessions, I could say. One in particular was from a guy that they called Railhead. And he was just a really good fellow, and he was always around to help with the business. And I had his original hat from 1940. It even had his name in it and the date. And that burned in the fire. We lost so many things. But, the pool hall is, like I said, it was good back in its day, and it ran its course. And so my Uncle Drew kind of changed the direction with the business. And then it became more of a museum. Hundreds of pictures— and a lot of them over 100 years old, originals, that were lost in the fire. 10:00A lot of things have happened iwth that business since 1942, when I took it over.

SW: Was your grandfather an entrepreneur before he got into the pool hall business?

JW: He was.

SW: What did he do?

JW: 11:00My grandfather was in the military.

SW: What branch? Do you know?

JW: He was in the Army. And he was over their horses, for years. Actually, he was injured by one and that's what ultimately caused his death— later on, years on. But he was in the military, he retired, and then he came home and he started the business. But he was involved in a lot of real estate transactions, several different types of business transactions, things like that, property. And he did really well. And, I never had the opportunity to meet him— he died right before I was born. And all of the old guys, I’ll say, that come in and that have been going there for years and grew up in there, they knew him well. 12:00And talked about him as being a very generous person, very giving, but stern when he had to be. And my dad can vouch for that. That's about it.

SW: I’m wondering, in terms of Laurel County, was Weaver's Pool Hall the only pool hall? Have you heard any stories passed down? You're pretty much the one story with the lasting connection between the pool hall and the chili bun. Because I have heard that they started it in this neck of the woods through the pool halls. Do you know anything about that? Have you heard much about those kinds of stories?

JW: That they started what?

SW: That chili buns became a popular food item in the pool hall.

JW: You know, I've never been told that. 13:00And I have never really researched anything like that, but it would make sense. I would say pool halls and even bowling alleys.

SW: Do you know how he served it? Did he just serve the chili up for customers in the pool hall? Or did he put it in a bun?

JW: Yeah, he had a bun. He had a gas steamer and it would steam the buns perfectly. They were always consistent. And the chili was wonderful. By grandmother made the chili for years. Her name’s Queena Weaver, and she passed away several years ago. An incredible lady, about five-three, could take care, could defend herself against a big person— she was tough. But she made the chili for years. And she was so short she had to stand on a coke box, crate— a wooden crate— which I still have. 14:00And she would stand on that and make the chili. And my grandfather and my grandmother, they both worked very well together. And, by the way, my grandfather died of emphysema due to the—he was backed into a corner of a stall and was rammed. It cracked some ribs, did some damage. That's what ultimately took his life, and he was young. And at that point, my Uncle Drew and my Uncle Gilbert Clay Weaver took over the business. And they worked together for several years, then my Uncle Gilbert retired. Gilbert was also successful in real estate as my grandfather. But Gilbert retired— I'm thinking around 1970 or 1971 when my Uncle Drew made the change. And my Uncle Drew ran it for forty eight— almost forty nine— years before he sold it to me.

SW: 15:00And how did you end up buying it? What made you want to do that?

JW: Well, it had run its course with Drew and his family, and in a good way. You know, Drew had been there for a long time. His wife, Betty, I can't forget Betty, Betty was there for many, many years. They worked great together. Drew is a very interesting person, to say the least. Very charismatic. A lot of good stories about Drew, I can say that.

SW: What's your favorite?

JW: I can't tell.

SW: One of your top ten favorite Drew stories? Something that you think speaks to the person he— is he still around?

JW: Yes.

SW: Okay, the person he is.

JW: 16:00He's still alive and doing well. And Drew is now eighty-two. And I think Gilbert is eighty-three.

SW: Do they still live in Laurel County?

JW: Yes, they live in London. We live close together. Wonderful people. But Betty, Drew's wife, they ran it together for years. It ran its course, so they closed the doors. Well, the family didn't know, it just happened. And it was very dramatic on me and my wife and my family. And many, many people, I mean, of Laurel County and London. Many people. People as far as out of state that come to us every year, you know, expressed their sadness over it closing. My wife and I— this lasted for about two weeks. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't hardly eat. 17:00I was so upset over it. I had gone there since I was in diapers, you know, just a child. And, I lost my train of thought—

SW: You were talking about two weeks went by and you couldn't sleep.

JW: Yes, well, finally one night, and my wife is a heavy sleeper, but I gave it a shot. I whispered her name and she said, What? I said, Are you awake? And she said, Yes, I'm wide awake. And I said, Well, what are you thinking? And she said, The same thing you are. And I said, I am going to call Drew in the morning and see if we can't work out a deal and buy it. That meant that we had to quit our jobs. My wife stayed at her job for about a year and then she came over full time. But we got with my Uncle Drew the next morning and worked out a deal in about fifteen, twenty minutes.

SW: Now what were you and Kimberly doing before this? What were your jobs?

JW: 18:00Kim was in the finance business through a local bank here. I was a real estate agent and a city councilman. I still serve the city council. But we were both very busy.

SW: You just couldn't let it go though?

JW: No, there was no way. There was just no way. I grew up very close by the pool room. I still call it the pool room a lot of time. That's when it was a pool room. And, I would go from my parent's home— in a diaper— and that was it, I'd find my way out. And our babysitter would catch me up at the pool room every time. And my routine was— and I’m telling you, I remember this as clear as a bell. I would go up to the back steps and wait for somebody to open the door because I couldn't even reach it. And somebody would finally come out and I’d go through. And I'd go to the back pool table in the corner, closest to the door. And I could reach up and grab a hold of the corner pocket. And somebody would always lift me up and let me watch. 19:00And then my babysitter would come, and I would have to go. And that happened many times. But I was always attracted to that restaurant. And when it did change over, I remember every bit of the changeover. And it was really neat. He started with a few pictures— Drew did. He started with a few pictures that turned into hundreds. That turned into just a family history on the walls. And like I said, it was a museum. And it was dedicated to all of the customers and people who have been going in since the 20:00 40s.

SW: What do you think that meant to people of London and Laurel County to have that place for so long?

JW: Everyone refers to Weaver's as an icon. And it’s always been in the center of town. So many people— so many families come through. It's amazing. And you know everybody. 21:00When I graduated from high school and went to college, when I came back it seemed like I didn't know anybody. It just really changed. And once I got into the restaurant— many, many years later, twenty years later— it was like I started to know everybody again. It was really neat.

SW: Now where did you go to school, Judd?

JW: Georgetown.

SW: And I heard you say last week when I was in here that you were in the music business for a little while. Can you explain?

JW: I've played drums since I was five years old. And it's been a passion of mine all my life, it just has been. I've played sports through high school and college, but I have always stuck to drums. 22:00So, when we bought the original Weaver's on Main Street, a year and a half later, we bought the part of the building back that my uncle had sold in 1971.

SW: To the clothing store?

JW: Yeah, so I bought it back. And we doubled the size. We over doubled the size of the business. We added 6,000 square feet to the business. And it became a bar. We built a custom bar. It was really neat. And we had all of these boxes and boxes of pictures that we eventually framed and kept putting up. And we had close to, you know, I can't remember, over 1,000 I guess. But, my point was to this was to tell you, I guess to tell you that we bought the other half of the building. I'm brain dead, I'm sorry.

SW: No, It's okay. You were talking about the drums, playing the drums.

JW: Oh, yes. There's so much that I can talk about. 23:00Once we built the bar and got it open, it became a great entertainment spot. We expanded our menu with prime steaks, the best steaks around, high quality foods and so forth, and a nice bar. A full bar, basically. And, so, I started booking bands. We were the first business to serve alcohol on Main Street in London for many years. I think it even goes back before Prohibition, If I am not mistaken. And, we also were the first to have live entertainment. I started booking all of these bands and so forth, and I've played drums all of my life. I played with one band for thirty-six years.

SW: What was the name of the band?

JW: 24:00The Grand Jury. [Laughs.] We started in sixth grade and we've had the best time over the years. Actually, we just had our thirty-year class reunion and we played for that for a little get together here the night before. But, anyway, I booked a lot of bands. And there was one band in particular that I really loved. And they are a husband and wife team, basically, with a bass-guitarist and they had a drummer. And I would sit in with them every now and then and they’d say, Come and play a song with us. And so I'd go. And something happened with the drummer situation and so they asked me to play and I said, Absolutely! So, I've been playing with them. We play on Main Street once or twice a month. And then here about the same.

SW: 25:00And so, I also wanted to ask you, because you were talking about serving alcohol, I'm thinking that back in the forties when your grandfather had the pool hall: Were they able to serve liquor there? Or was it sort of like a pool hall situation? Do you know?

JW: Alcohol was not allowed. It was dry at that time.

SW: 26:00And, I also wanted to ask you about your grandmother being there. I mean, at that time was it common for women to go to pool halls?

JW: She never went into the pool hall. She made her chili at her house, which was very close to the business. They lived there, and my grandmother, basically, that was her home when she died. But she would make the chili at home. Railhead, who I was telling you about, would transport it from the house to the pool hall.

SW: Do you know Railhead's real name?

JW: 27:00I do, and it’s Russell...I'll think of his last name. Russell and Zion, they were brothers, and I had their pictures up in the restaurant in large frames. And they were large pictures. It was great pictures. Of course, they’re gone, too, so.

SW: Do you know why they called Russell "Railhead?" Was it something to do with the railway?

JW: No, he had a very big head. And it was long and he was a black fellow. And he shined shoes on Main Street for years. And then he was always around the pool hall. And he was close to my grandfather, my grandmother, my dad, my Uncle Drew, all my uncles, and Aunt Judy.

SW: Did he grow up in Laurel County? Do you know? And Zion?

JW: He did. He was actually from Wayne County. I'm pretty sure that he was from Wayne County. He came to Laurel County for most of this life. And then before he passed away, he moved back to Wayne County.

SW: And that's something that I wanted to ask you, Judd, because I feel like, as an outsider, too, when I hear people talk about eastern Kentucky there's this perception of what the place is when people don't know because they don't listen to the stories from the people who live there. At that time, was Laurel County, just because of the way Appalachia settled, too, there weren't a ton of African Americans, there were coal miners. But I'm wondering in terms of the racial make-up of Laurel County, I mean, was Railhead and Zion, were there very few blacks in the county at the time?

JW: 28:00Yes. And it’s been that way my entire life. I graduated with 411 people, and I don't think we had one African American in our class. I don't think we had one. But I did go to school, and they were very— were close friends to me then, and they still are today. I could name two in particular. Very close to.

SW: Do you know how your grandfather met Railhead?

JW: I'm sure on Main Street, in passing. I'm almost positive that's how it came about, yeah.

SW: Do you know, at that time, around the 1940s— I'm just so interested because you’re really the only person who can speak about the pool hall, and I'm curious as to, were their women in there? And at the same time— I know you mentioned Railhead and Zion was it common, just because the population was smaller, did black men come in? Do you know what the make-up of the pool hall looked like around 1940?

JW: Yes, it was predominately white. Men. No women. Women did not come in, ever. And that was the big thing. I grew up hearing, you know, and I always took it as, well, if it was just a pool hall—and it was— smoking, spittoons on the floor. You know, women would not even want to go in.

SW: 29:00What was the industry like in London and Laurel County then? What were the big economic factors here? What did people do for work? Were there factories?

JW: There were factories. There were, I'm trying to think of the word— clothing factories—

SW: Like, not textile manufacturing

JW: Textile!

SW: Textiles? Okay.

JW: 30:00Also, Westinghouse had an operation here. Now in the 31:0040s, though, I don't know how far Westinghouse went back, but there was a lot of industry. A lot of factory jobs and the railway was big. East Bernstadt, Kentucky, which is next to, it’s considered Laurel County— it's an old suburb. And it was a small little town at one time, was really booming before and, I think, after the Great Depression. But that town died, basically. The railway— something was affected there, I'm not for sure how that story goes. It was a small town where everybody knew everybody, you know. And I have to say that it’s a very good city. It was good for me to grow up here in the late 32:0060s and 33:0070s. It was really good.

SW: Did you come straight back after Georgetown?

JW: I lived in Lexington for a couple of years, worked for an environmental company and then moved back, yeah.

SW: Did you meet Kimberly here?

JW: I did. Yes I did. 34:00I met her here, and we’ve been together for twenty years.

SW: Did she grow up in London?

JW: She did. She did. She's a few years younger than me. You wouldn't know that because she knows more than I do about everything [laughs]. Or at least I tell her she does. She's a few years younger. We met. I was married prior to, and had recently been divorced. And I met Kim through my cousin. And instantly, instantly fell in love with her. We dated a few years, I proposed and we got engaged and have been together twenty years and it flies. It sure does.

SW: 35:00And Judd, remind me, I don’t think I asked you. What year did you guys buy from your Uncle Drew?

JW: 2011.

SW: 2011. Okay, you did tell me that. What were those first few months like for you guys when you bought the business? What was going through your mind?

JW: It was awesome, wonderful, the first day. The last day that it was open when my Uncle Drew owned the business— and people got wind of it and knew— people were wrapped around the building, standing in line to get the last, you know, Weaver’s hotdog. What they thought was the last. Our first day after reopening a few months later, it was overwhelming. It was the same way. But we hung in there together, and there were a couple of times I thought, I don't think we can make this. I don’t think we’re gonna make it. 36:00We’re going to really upset people. And we got right through it, and it was great! So really, that first day, being thrown in the fire, made every other day after it easier. So I knew what to expect. But it started out very smooth, and it was smooth until the fire.

SW: Do you want to talk about the fire?

JW: Sure.

SW: What year did it happen?

JW: 37:00It was 2015, February 2.

SW: And what happened?

JW: We had a commercial coffee pot through one of my food vendors. And they sent a repairman to adjust the temperature. There were two wires cut that were not reconnected, and on the Sunday that we’re closed, it overloaded the hot water reservoir and overloaded the outlet and the system. And it basically caught fire. That's what was determined.

SW: And what time? How did you find out?

JW: 38:00It was at midnight, and my wife and I had been asleep. The Super Bowl was that night— Super Bowl Sunday. And I made it through maybe one minute of the half time show and I was out. We were so exhausted. Sunday was our rest day. After church you get home and you worked. We worked a lot of hours during that time. I mean a lot of hours, around the clock. And it was a little after midnight, and my son came to the door, beating the door. Somebody said Weaver's is on fire. And then it was just a blur after that. It was very cold. We watched it— when we got there, there were probably thirty feet of flames coming through the roof. I knew it was going to be completely destroyed, and it was. 39:00There was nothing left.

SW: I know it’s, you know, some trauma like that, I can only imagine spacing out when it’s going on, but like, do you remember what you thought when you saw it?

JW: I did. I do. I felt like it was a form of punishment for some crazy reason. Maybe I had done something wrong. Maybe I— Even though I had not, and I know that now. I lost my brother the year before that. He died unexpectedly at forty-one years old— perfect health— from carbon monoxide poisoning in his home. That was a huge blow to me. Everything that— when we renovated the business and updated everything, he did the majority of the work. He hand built the bar— and it was a mahogany bar— it was beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful. And losing all that and then having that fire a year later, was just, I just, you know, you don't think right when you go through something so traumatic. Like losing a sibling or a family member or anything. 40:00And then, it just felt like, you know, did I work too much? I was there all of the time. I slept there quite a bit.

SW: You slept there?

JW: And I had to, especially during the end of the week, through the weekends, because I was the only one that made the chili. It was made fresh every day. And I used to make it about 4:30 to 5:30 in the morning, in that timespan, start making it. And then on a Saturday morning I may have had two hours of sleep because by the time you close at midnight, cleanup, make sure everybody is out, get everything, books done, you know, and that's the way we work. So I thought, you know, am I working too much? Am I neglecting things that I shouldn't be neglecting? 41:00But I realized quickly that it wasn't. I'll tell you something off record. I had an alarm security system. And it was top of the line. The guy that installed it for us did not hook a phone line to it and he knew it. He was taking our check— I wrote him one check a year, for a year monitoring, around 500 dollars for the year. And there wasn't even a phone line. And he told his friend about two weeks after the fire that he thought he really screwed up and made a mistake. So that's tied up in court.

SW: Aw geez.

JW: 42:00My insurance company had me as renting, not owning, so there's an issue there. A small issue, I think, small issue. And then Gordon Food Service with the coffee pot. And basically what we’re looking at is getting through this and rebuilding back on Main Street.

SW: Now there was a gentlemen in there— his name is Brandon Wood— and I think he lives in Corbin. He was telling me about where the original location was. It was right next to Bob's? So it's that space—

JW: 43:00It's that empty lot. And entire empty lot. Yes. All the way to the sidewalk around it.

SW: I wanted to confirm that with you. I wanted to take a picture. So how do you pick up from that? Because you obviously got the business going again. How did you get from that moment to...

JW: Kim and I were devastated, as you can imagine. It was a very low point in our lives, to say the least. But we have three children, a mortgage, you know you got to get busy. So we took everything that we had saved and everything that we could put together, and within a few weeks— several weeks— Fourth Street became available, the location. And the airport became available. My wife at first, Kim did not really want to venture out here. At first she thought let's run Fourth Street, and we'll get back on our feet. But our customer base— the people that, you know, that came to Weaver's on Main— they followed us here. 44:00We've picked up new customers and we have a really good time here. In a good way, a safe way, in a family-oriented way. You just got to get up and go. I mean, you can't sit around. And once this became part of our lives, that's all we want to do. It was amazing that these two places became available. This one had been leased for several years. So it just worked out. And the airport board approached us and asked us if we would be interested. My wife said no, I said yes. I said, Just come out and look at it. She had never been out here. She loved it and she said, Let's do it. So we did it. And I'm glad we did. I love our customers. I truly do. They are part of your family. And my employees. I mean the employees that I had at Main Street— that's not only devastating to the owners but the employees, you know. And so we got them back to work as quickly as possible. 45:00And my son, Judd the second, he came aboard. He moved from Lexington. So he works with me full time now.

SW: What was he doing before in Lexington?

JW: Finishing school at UK. He's a good kid.

SW: Can you describe the challenges— ‘cause we were talking about this, if you feel like it—what are the challenges of splitting up time and space with Kim? Because she's over at Fourth Street and you’re here.

JW: It is tough. We see each other, you know, not enough. But we are a strong couple. At the end of every day she’s my best friend, and I’m hers. We both have a love for the restaurant business. And we both are serving people. We love to serve and give. 46:00So we manage through it. And sometimes it can be hard, special occasions, things like that. But we try to make up for it, and we have fun. Sunday is our fun day. [Laughs]

SW: What do you do on Sundays for fun?

JW: We go to church and then we will go and eat and we’ll just kind of hang out. And then at about nine o'clock it is Walking Dead time, so. [Laughs.] My kids have got me hooked on this. I don't know if you’ve ever watched it, it is really cool. I’ve always been a scary movie, gory movie type person all of my life. And this is just really neat. Do you watch it? No?

SW: I get freaked out about that stuff. My mind plays tricks on me after.

JW: It's different. And the special effects are unbelievable—it’s amazing. But it gives us an excuse to get together. And even my wife enjoys it! And I would have never guessed in a million years that that would be possible. I'm just telling you. It's amazing. 47:00So we have fun night, family night on Sunday. And we try to do a family night during the week when we can. During this time of year it’s difficult. There are so many things going on with the holidays and planning and so forth. We have a good relationship, Kim and I do. And our goal is to get back together under one roof. Like we were before. We had two businesses under one roof, basically. And we were together every day, so that after the fire, when we are not together every day, it makes it tough. But she's been happier for some reason, I don't know why. I'm kidding. [Laughs] I'm kidding.

SW: When you say "two businesses under one roof," what do you mean by that?

JW: Well, we had our Weaver's Hot Dogs, and then the wall between the two businesses we opened, and it became, we went from serving for years in a twenty-by-eighty room, my Uncle Drew and then us. And then we opened up a 6,000 square foot space with a full bar and all that. Well, that brought in a lot more customers, too, during lunch. They would come in, grab a beer and a hotdog, whatever they would want to eat. 48:00We had the best cheeseburgers. But it really, you know, it changed the business big time, you know. Anyway, I forgot what I was saying again.

SW: No that's okay, I'm following you.

JW: You are good at keeping up.

SW: I always talk on tangents.

JW: Me too.

SW: So I can follow. I do have a couple more questions, is that okay?

JW: Absolutely.

SW: 49:00Before I forget to ask you, could you tell me the names of your kids. You said Judd the second. Is he the oldest?

JW: He's the oldest— he's twenty-three. William, he’s twenty, and Tyson is eight.

SW: Do William and Tyson help at all with the business?

JW: Well Tyson, he's little, he sometimes helps on Fourth Street when his mother makes him. [Laughs] He'll go in on Saturdays and sometimes do some things. Will works in Lexington, and then, of course, Judd is here.

SW: That's pretty great. I guess I can already imagine because of how you talked about, you know, these two locations became available. But when the fire happened, how did the community in Laurel County and London respond?

JW: 50:00They were sad. It was another blow to the business. One of the Lexington news stations said it was the final chapter of Weaver's. And I saw that immediately after the fire, and I was pretty upset about that. ‘Cause I wanted to call and say, No it is not. [Laughs] But it’s not. I think maybe more they were referring to the building, but it still hit a nerve. But what we intend to do is build it back. And we were talking about two businesses under one roof a minute ago. Having those two businesses, we had a breakfast and lunch crowd that had been there for years. 51:00And opening the bar and offering entertainment and a dinner menu allowed it to be a second business in our minds. Even though it was the same business. Working together— Kim and I at that point— we were together early morning until the late afternoon— and that's what we want to get back to. That's our goal. And we will get back.

SW: You want to go back to the original space where you were?

JW: Oh yes, absolutely. Yes.

SW: 52:00How, I don’t mean to, and this could be off the record to, but, like, when do you see that happening?

JW: As soon as we can. As soon as we can work through some litigation and get a plan. It is something that we want to do as soon as we can. We want to get back home. And don't get me wrong, what we’ve built out here has been good. We’ve built a good clientele. A little different than, like I said earlier, from Main Street.

SW: How is it different?

JW: 53:00Well, theres, people there's people that lived in the city, close to the business, basically, and then you had people that would go out of their way. But that was a certain group. Most of that group still comes here, but there’s people on this end of London and Laurel County that did not wanna go that far when they could come here, or go somewhere on the bypass rather than going further into town. But I've gotta say, everybody is always good. We have good times out here and everybody behaves. And we're careful about our serving and we run it tight.

SW: 54:00Do you expect a lot of people out tonight for Halloween?

JW: No, no, no. That's why we close on Monday's at three. I could have stayed open, but I knew that it was going to be very slow due to Halloween.

SW: The weekend...

JW: And Monday is the slowest business in any restaurant, in most restaurants across the country.

SW: 55:00Judd, I'm curious, after the fire happened, and you guys moved into these two locations, you were talking about taking care of your employees in a way that sounds more familial than business oriented. Did you split people up? Did you have to hire some new people for this location and keep some folks over at Fourth Street? How did you guys decide?

JW: 56:00We basically, we lost a few employees. With that being said, we did hire a few more, but only a few. And then everybody else came right back.

SW: That's great.

JW: Yeah, we were fortunate. And it was a business decision up front to venture here. But the employees played a huge part of that. For us to rush and get it— plus we wanted to be back to work. We didn't want to sit at home occupying our minds all day with the fire and other things— the negative. So we wanted to get back out, and we did. We made pretty good time. We were able to buy quite a bit of equipment and get back in business. So, very fortunate to say the least.

SW: For people who are not from this neck of the woods, could you describe a chili bun? What is a chili bun?

JW: 57:00A chili bun is a bun— we use a six-inch bun— and it’s just chili. No hotdog. And it’s whatever they want on it.

SW: What do most people get on it? Is there like a regular way to get it?

JW: Onions and mustard— that's the most typical. And then you have onions and mustard and cheese. And then you have ketchup, we can do sauerkraut, coleslaw, we do several things.

SW: Do you have any idea where the chili bun came from? Out of your experience?

JW: I do not. You know, the only research, well, not research, but things that I have found dates back to a hotdog. You know a chili bun is really not— and we have a lot of people that will come in from out of town and they’ll say, I want a hotdog. And then we will give them a hotdog and chili. No, I don't want the dog. And they will say, Well we call that a chili bun. Oh, a chili bun, okay. So they’ve not heard of that. You know I couldn't tell you where it originated. But I myself, that's what I prefer, a chili bun versus a hotdog.

SW: How come?

JW: 58:00And I like a hotdog every now and then. I just always have. I don't know why. But I will eat a hotdog every now and then, just to change it.

SW: Did you grow up eating chili buns?

JW: Oh yeah, absolutely. When I was in college, I would get enough to take back with me have them frozen. And I’d heat it up and feed my roommates and it was always great.

SW: And, again, you don't have to dive into the recipe, but could you describe the chili? Because I think that people sometimes think of chili— I know for folks like in Mississippi they think of a bowl of chili, like the soup. Could you describe the chili?

JW: 59:00Out chili is more of a Tex-Mex blend. It’s a spicy Tex-Mex blend, and its self, the way we mix it’s tolerable— it's not too spicy. It's not going to burn. But it’s a very rich flavored chili. Now the chili, Skyline Chili, is, I think a cinnamon-based chili. Totally different. Our chili’s not sweet, it is more of a rich, Tex-Mex flavor.

SW: Is there a connection between chili and eastern Kentucky? I hear people talk about chili a lot. Some people, one of your employees— it was a woman, I don't know her name, African American, really sweet, she was working on the grill—

JW: Kaya!

SW: Kaya! She was talking about how she only likes chili buns, but she normally takes that same kind of chili and puts it in spaghetti, and makes spaghetti with it. And, you know, the chili dogs are a big deal here. I just wonder— maybe I’m making it up in my head— but I just wonder if there is some cultural connection between chili and eastern Kentucky.

JW: 60:00I can say this, If you ask anybody around here, male or female, Do you like chili? Oh absolutely, I like chili. I make the best chili. That's what they say— everybody says that. People love chili in this area, and I think it’s simple for a lot of people to make their own chili soup or their own chili for hotdogs. I didn’t see that a lot growing up but chili soup is a biggie. That’s the big one, the chili soup.

SW: What's chili soup?

JW: 61:00The chili soup that we serve is our chili, but we add tomatoes and red kidney beans and a few other things.

SW: So you call it chili soup?

JW: Uh huh, and it's thinner. It's thin. And it's very, very good. You can ask anybody around, and they’ll tell you that they make the best chili.

SW: Do you know if there is a connection between—you know, we’re exploring a lot about the economy and how people eat— do you think it’s like an affordable, filling thing for people to have, too? Do you thing that has anything to do with it?

JW: 62:00Sure, I do. You know, it is an inexpensive item. You can make a meal out of two, basically. And some fries, homemade fries or homemade potatoe chips that we serve, and it's a full meal. And it's not expensive. It is filling.

SW: Do you want to mention the hot dogs? ‘Cause I know it was Weaver's Hot Dogs and people talk about the hot dogs and every body I run into, they’re like, You’ve gotta to go to Weaver's and talk to them about chili buns. Make sure you talk to them about the hot dogs. Can you talk a little bit about the history of the hot dogs at Weaver's?

JW: 63:00And it goes back to, again, 1940. More people eat hotdogs than chili buns. And we see probably seventy percent is hotdogs that we serve daily. Thirty percent being chili buns. But the history goes back with our business from day one.

SW: And when people order a hotdog is it just— I’m trying to make sure I have the lingo right— is it just a plain hotdog? Or do they order a chili dog if they want the chili on it?

JW: If they want a hotdog, for us that’s chili and a hot dog. If they want a weenie bun— we've used that term forever— a weenie bun is just a hotdog in a bun.

SW: Does that go back to when your grandfather owned the pool hall?

JW: 64:00Sure. Absolutely. Kids love weenie buns, yes.

SW: That's so awesome. Judd, I wanted to ask you just one other thing, and then if there's anything you want to add that I didn't think to ask you, I want you to feel comfortable sharing. But, one question I have for you is— and I'm not trying to put you on the spot here— I feel like people talk about, and I mentioned this earlier, talk about eastern Kentucky in ways like they talk about Mississippi, where I live. And it’s mostly because they don't have any information about it. They've never been there, they've never talked to anyone, they don't see the good.

JW: Absolutely, you're right.

SW: And so I’m wondering— in terms of growing up here, having a business here, looking out for you customers and your employees— what does this place mean to you, and what do you want people to know about Laurel County or London that you think is overlooked a lot?

JW: 65:00Well the people are wonderful, number one. It's a tight-knit community. We're in the bible belt, basically, and there is a lot of long tradition and values that have been instilled in everybody, basically. I think London was a great place, and I grew up right in the middle of the city. I think it was a great place to be raised. And good schools. A lot of good friends, good people. And generations of good families. People are very humble and very giving. It's amazing, you know, what I’ve seen since I have been back to London as an adult, what I have gained and observed from people. But it is a good community, and for anybody to visit London, they would love it. And there’s quite a bit to do here. A lot more now than when I was a little boy. 66:00But we have a beautiful lake, we have just many areas, camping, you name it. But I think that if any outsider came in and spent a day in London, they would not regret it. And quite possibly have met several friends along the way, you know.

SW: What has having this business in your life, how has it, what have you learned about yourself through having this experience? Owning this place? That surprised you about yourself?

JW: That surprised me about myself? Well, you know, I always wanted to work in the restaurant, but I was not allowed. 67:00[Laughs] Drew had it covered, basically. And for a brief time, my cousin Carl David took over the business, and I would tell him all of the time, and this was me as an adult, Look, I will come up and work for on Saturdays for free. You don't have to pay me. Just let me get back there and work. You run the grill or whatever, I'll run the hotdogs. We'll do whatever. It never was—never happened. I always wanted to be able to do that. And then all of the sudden, it becomes available. And I wanted to do that for many years, most of my life, get back there and work. But when we have the opportunity to buy it, and we did all the renovation quickly— very fast— to get the doors open. When we opened up that first day, I kind of told you earlier about my experience. I felt so privileged, number one, just to be able to make the chili. 68:00And then to be up there and serve it. And to see all of the people come in. And the way we worked we were right on Main Street with large glass and you could see everything outside. And it was just so gratifying to me. And I always thought that it might be, but I didn't know how much. So it was a shock how much it meant to me. 69:00I told my son the other day, he asked me in passing, How are you doing? I said, I'm doing great, I just made chili. And he said, Yeah. And I said, There's nothing that I'd rather do. I love making chili, every time I make it. And this is what I told him, I said, Every time I make it I feel as honored as I did on day one. It's a privilege for that to be handed down to me. I didn't realize how overwhelming it would be to me.

SW: Do you think people romanticize having their own business a lot? Like they see all of the great things about it, but there is not an idea of how much hard work goes into it.

JW: Oh yes, absolutely. And most people think that way. And then once they get stated and get involved, they realize. You know, Kim and I knew going into this that it was going to be another marriage. And that's what I have always been told about a restaurant— it's a marriage. And so we accepted that. And we knew it going in. But we were willing, and still are, to put in as much time as we need to, you know. We don't hardly pass anything up. If people want to have parties, if they want to have special events, we will accommodate ‘em. 70:00And we’ve canceled plans many times of the weekend to accommodate people. That's just a part of it, you know.

SW: What do you hope happens in the future with this business— when you and Kim look forward and think about retiring some day— what do you hope for in the business?

JW: 71:00Well, when Kim and I decide to retire, I think that I have three boys that might continue. One of the three may continue the business. That would be my hope. I would like to see it continue for, you know, three more generations. I think that would be wonderful if that could happen. The chili is very good. It’s of high quality. The beef in our chili is prime beef, it's the best grade of beef you can get. We go the extra mile, and I'd hate for London, Laurel County to lose that. 72:00‘Cause there are so many people that come here and they will come for dinner. You know, we have great steaks, we have great foods. You know, I got to have the hot dogs. I mean, people will come in from out of state, and passing on business, Now I just want the hotdogs. That's what I've been dying for, you know. It’s just amazing, you know. But I would hope that it could continue that way. I would hate to see it end. And I don't think it will.

SW: Judd is there anything that you want to add, or maybe something that I should have asked you that I didn't think to ask you— about the story of this business or your career— that you think is important for people to know about Weaver's?

JW: 73:00I think we’ve hit about everything. The one thing I would say is that, when we rebuild, I want to put it back old-style. And when we purchased the business, all the photos that were in there originally were given away. So Kim and I had to work hard to get ‘em back. And we got them back, every one of them, and then some. So at that point we made copies of all the originals, but we put the originals back up. 74:00One thing that we want to do is get those copies up, redo it in that fashion, the way it was, with a few changes for efficiency. The building was over a hundred years old. But when we had renovated, we put new plumbing, electric, everything was new. But the efficiency was not there, like it can be with a new building, of course. So we’re going to try and take a new structure, make it old again. And give it the same feeling anyway. 75:00That's one thing I was thinking. You know, you asked me about building back or whatever. I've touched on the quality of the chili. I've touched on the customers. I don't know, I guess that is about it.

SW: You've been really generous with your time, given your schedule, so I just really want to tell you thank you for doing this.

JW: And if you have any more questions I can answer them. My day is almost over. I'm going to go home and hand out candy. My son loves to— he don't like to trick-or-treat.

SW: Tyson?

JW: Yeah, and he is eight! He loves to hand it out.

SW: That's sweet!

JW: Yeah, he loves to hand it out. He's a great kid. He's like a thirty-year old man, always has been. It's amazing! He would sit up on Main Street when he was just four or five years old with all the old retired guys and he would get on his knees in a chair, put his arms up on. He’d sit around there. And Kim, my wife and his mother, would fix him coffee— a little splash of coffee in there, but it was basically all milk. And he would sit there and he would say, Now, hold it. Ain't’s not a word. It is not a word so don't say 'Ain't.' Now go ahead. 76:00He could carry on a conversation with these men. Amazing kid. We've got a porch that's attached to our home that's open, with a fireplace, [starts talking to an employee]. So we’ll build a fire and hand out candy and have a good time. We usually get a lot of kids.

SW: 77:00It starts like, what? Seven o'clock is the time?

JW: Yeah, right before dark they’ll start coming in.

SW: Does he dress up? Does he put his costume on?

JW: Oh yeah.

SW: What's it going to be this year?

JW: It's un telling. You just never know with him. One thing he has always been infatuated with are the superhero costumes and all of these costumes. He has all of the Kiss costumes. [Laughs] So you just never know.

SW: Alright. Well, I’m going to turn this off and get this out of your face, but I appreciate this very much.

[End of Interview]