Oral History Interview with Barbara Donnelly

Partial Transcript: Can you tell me your date of birth--uh--where you were born, like your education, some of your background.

Segment Synopsis: Donelly was born in 1918 and grew up in Terre Haute, Indiana and was raised in the United Brethren Church (which later merged with the Methodist Church in the 1960s). Donelly got a BA in education from Indiana State University (then known as Indiana State Teachers College) and married her high school sweetheart. The couple subsequently moved to Indianapolis for six months since her husband was in the Navy. Donelly's husband Raymond received specialized training at the Washington Navy Yard for two months and in March of 1942 was transferred to the Louisville Naval Ordinance Station. Donelly's husband eventually retired from the Louisville Naval Ordinance station after working there for thirty-two years.

Keywords: Husband; United Brethren Church

Subjects: Early life; Childhoood; Terre Haute (Ind.); Indiana; Education; Education (Higher); Indiana State University; Indiana State Teachers College; Marriage; High school; World War II; Methodist Church; Methodists; Indianapolis (Ind.); Louisville (Ky.); United States. Navy; Training; Jefferson County (Ky.); Naval Ordnance Station Louisville (Ky.); Washington (D.C.); Washington Navy Yard

Partial Transcript: So, how did you find First Unitarian . . .

Segment Synopsis: Donelly first became interested in Unitarianism when one of her professors that she admired was a Unitarian. Donelly also knew a friend through the YWCA (Young Women's Christian Association) who made the one and a half hour drive from Terre Haute to Indianapolis each Sunday in order to attend Unitarian church services. Later on when Donelly and her husband were living in Louisville they had joined the Presbyterian church a few blocks from their apartment in South Louisville. Donelly initially became aware of First Unitarian through her husband who passed the old downtown location of the church as he was commuting to work. Donelly also felt that the leadership at the Presbyterian church that she was attending were not answering her questions about the religion to her satisfaction. The minister at First Unitarian when Donelly joined was Robert Weston. Donelly says that Minister Weston perceived himself and the congregation to be more liberal than other Unitarian churches. For instance, Minister Weston had made the decision to stop having holy communion every Sunday. Donelly says that other ministers succeeding Minister Weston had more variety in their sermons than he did. Donelly felt welcomed to the church by congregants, especially Minister Weston's wife. Donelly also found many of the congregants to be interesting people and joined the church women's alliance soon after becoming a member at First Unitarian.

Keywords: YWCA; Husband; Streetcars; First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Ministers; Robert Weston; Women's alliance; Congregants; Holy communion

Subjects: Unitarians; Unitarianism; Indiana State University; Indiana State Teachers College; Terre Haute (Ind.); Indianapolis (Ind.); Church; Young Women's Christian Association; Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Commute; Presbyterians; Presbyterian Church; Religious conversion; Protestants; Unitarian churches--History; Sermons; Church membership

Partial Transcript: We had children in the Sunday School and I got involved in the Sunday School and eventually of course, the RE [religious education] committee.

Segment Synopsis: Donelly became involved in the religious education ministry in part because her children were attending Sunday school. Donelly served on the religious education committee and played a role in changing the structure of church committees from lifetime service to placing term limits on how long individual members could serve on committees. Donelly also worked with the religious education director at the time to create a church council. Donelly also says that the religious education director took on the role of church secretary and was a strict Unitarian. Donelly briefly alludes to an incident in which her husband called on the president of the church board to have the religious education director resign due to a conflict between her and the church board.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Religious education committee; Religious education director; Rotating membership; Councils; Youth groups; Youth group sponsors; Congregants; Activities; Husband

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Religious education; Sunday schools; Secretaries; Death; Resignation; Conflict (Psychology); Salaries; Children

Partial Transcript: . . . Or the youth group was in those days known as Liberal Religious Youth, LRY.

Segment Synopsis: Donelly discusses the LRY (Liberal Religious Youth) group at First Unitarian when her children were involved. Donelly says that LRY was fairly active under Minister Robert Reed, especially since his sons were in the group. First Unitarian encountered difficulties in maintaining consistency with program sponsors for the LRY group. Donelly briefly discusses changes to the national LRY structure that led to the disillusion of the group in 1982. According to Donelly, LRY had convinced the UUA (Unitarian Universalist Association) to allow their organization to have more autonomy from the UUA. The UUA allowed the LRY to move its national headquarters to Boston and gave the organization more control over its allocated budget and programming. In Donelly's view, the national LRY had "little adult supervision" and administrative dysfunction combined with the emergence of widespread controlled substance use in youth caused the organization to essentially collapse internally. The local LRY at this time was "more responsible" according to Donelly but First Unitarian's group encountered issues in dealing with the national leadership.

Keywords: Ministers; Robert Reed; First Unitarian Church of Louisville; LRY; UUA; Control; Congregants

Subjects: Liberal Religious Youth; Organization; Boston (Mass.); Unitarian Universalist Association; Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Youth; Unitarianism; Budget; Programs; Drug use; Drugs; Substance abuse; Children

Partial Transcript: Well talk about now, after--when Bob Weston left . . .

Segment Synopsis: Donelly discusses the departure of Minister Robert Weston, who was the minister when Donelly joined the church. Donelly feels that it was better for Weston to leave and go somewhere else after serving First Unitarian for so long. Minister Weston had appointed the assistant minister, Phillip Smith to be his successor. Donelly says that the national church leadership does not recommend the assistant minister be appointed to lead minister at the congregation they have been serving. Donelly describes Minister Smith as a good speaker but did not approve of his character. Donelly says that Minister Smith suddenly left his position after serving for three years to divorce his wife and marry a one of his students (whose age is not mentioned.) Donelly feels that Minister Smith had let down many of his congregants by leaving so abruptly, particularly because Minister Smith was heavily involved in counseling church members. The congregation was very upset and shocked at the sudden death of Minister Smith's successor Minister David Brown. Minister Brown died of a brain hemorrhage after serving the church for four years. Donelly adds that Minister Smith returned to Louisville decades after his sudden departure and opened a bookstore on Bardstown Road but did not get involved with First Unitarian. Minister Smith stayed in Louisville for a short period of time and then moved back to California. Donelly describes the minister's residence in the Bonnycastle neighborhood of Louisville that the church paid for until Minister Smith came in 1961. Donelly explains that the national Unitarian Church was in favor of congregations maintaining a residence for their minister at that time. In the early 1960s, the church reversed course on its views about the living arrangements of ministers and advised that congregations give ministers a subsidy to pay for their own lodging. First Unitarian then sold the minister's residence and used the money from selling the house to create a subsidy for the minister to find their own accommodations. Minister Weston was the last minister at First Unitarian to live in the residence and Donelly says that many congregants lived in Bonnycastle during that period. One of the biggest changes to the church leadership was when Minister Robert Reed arrived in 1968. For the first time, the minister's wife worked outside of the home and was not expected to contribute all of her time to assisting her husband with ministerial duties.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Ministers; Phillip Smith; Robert Weston; Associate minister; UUA; David Brown; Minister's residence; Bardstown Road (Louisville, Ky.); Bonnycastle (Louisville, Ky.); Congregants; Minister's wife; Expectations; Gender roles

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Retirement; Unitarian Universalist Association; Sermons; Divorce; Counseling; Death; Brain--Hemorrhage; Health; Intelligence; Bookstore owners; California; Starr King School for the Ministry; Neighborhoods; Neighbors; Housing; Subsidies; Sons

Partial Transcript: We missed committees--.

Segment Synopsis: Donelly was very active in church committees. Donelly says she has been a member in every church committee except for the finance committee. Donelly discusses the purpose of the church council, which was to improve communication between the different church committees. The council consisted of three non-church committee members, the religious education director and the minister. Donelly says funneling communication through the church council was effective until many of the women involved in committees began working outside of the home and did not have enough time to attend both council and committee meetings. The council was changed to elected members only in response to this societal shift in the congregation. Donelly was also on the minister's advisory committee and the personal committee. Additionally, Donelly helped out in the church kitchen and worked in the church office once a week. Donelly says that she did not work outside the home (as a substitute teacher) until her children were much older, allowing her more time to do volunteer work at the church.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Religious education committee; House committee; Charlie Mitchell; Congregants; Church council; Ministers; Religious education director; Ministerial advisory committee; Personnel committee

Subjects: Unitarians; Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarianism; Religious education; Committees; Membership; Leadership; Communication; Meetings; Elections; Kitchen; Cleaning; Substitute teaching; Children; Work; Women; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Were there any--um--as far as the house committee goes, were there any significant things that were done to the building or anything that you can remember?

Segment Synopsis: Donelly recalls some of the projects that the church house committee planned while she was a member. One important project was to expand the church and a discussion about possibly adding theatre seating in the worship space. Replacing the church organ was another important task for the house committee. Donelly says it was difficult to remove the old organ and house committee members were responsible for cleaning the organ. The pipes from the old church organ were saved by a congregant and later installed into the new organ.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Church expansion; Theatre seating; Organ cleaning; House committee; Charlie Mitchell; Congregants

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Painting; Windows; Remodeling; Pulpits; Organs; Organ pipes

Partial Transcript: Another thing we established at that--along in there was the--um--memorial garden, to use the outside--uh--ground for ashes.

Segment Synopsis: Donelly says she contributed to the idea of bringing a memorial garden to honor the memory of deceased congregants. Donelly was inspired by a memorial garden at another Unitarian church in Michigan. Donelly visited the church as part of her work as a representative on the UUA (Unitarian Universalist Association) service committee. Donelly describes the process behind establishing the memorial garden at First Unitarian. The church had to call Louisville Metro Government to make sure they were allowed to scatter ashes in the garden. The city would permit the church to scatter the ashes as long as they mixed with the soil. The first congregants' ashes were scattered near the patio and no individual congregant would be permitted to have a commemorative marker. Donelly says it was important for the church to emphasize that the memorial garden was not a cemetery. There is one plaque to represent all of the congregants honored in the memorial garden and a memorial book to record the individual names of congregants. Donelly's biggest concern about the memorial garden was the lack of a consistent committee to manage its upkeep. Donelly recalls that the files from the memorial garden program were almost lost when the church changed ministers. Initially, only church members and their immediate family members could be honored in the memorial garden but a concern arose in the congregation about scattering the ashes of people who had not been involved with the church for decades. At one point, a congregant requested to have his parents' remains be exhumed from a cemetery and moved to the memorial garden. There was also a push in the congregation to expand the memorial plaque, which Donelly says was approved by the house committee without any external input.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Memorial garden; Ashes; Scattering ashes; UUA; UUA service committee; Congregants; Ministers; Memorial book; Plaques; Church board; Family

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Memorials; Gardens; Burial; Cemeteries; Gardening; Fire; Patios; Soils; Michigan; Unitarian Universalist Association; Committees; Continuity; Stability; Responsibility; Management

Partial Transcript: Let's see--uh--the women's alliance.

Segment Synopsis: Donelly says that the most active church group when she joined First Unitarian was the women's alliance. The women's alliance would help with tasks like cleaning the kitchen and carpets. Donelly remembers that the women's alliance would take an inventory of the appliances and silverware in the church kitchen each summer. They would also determine when kitchen appliances needed to be replaced. Fundraising was also an important part of the women's alliance. Donelly recalls that they would put on a church bazaar every year during Christmas. The women's alliance was also tasked with managing the church's finances when Donelly was a member. One of the most important fundraising events was an annual silver tea held at the same congregant's apartment every year. All of the women in the congregation were invited to the tea and had to contribute a piece of silver in order to attend. Donelly then describes the women's alliance structure. There were several subcommittees under the women's alliance, including the service committee, which often partnered with the local Lions Club. Donelly remembers that the service committee would sew bibs for babies and toddlers residing at group homes.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Women's alliance; Congregants; Men's group; Kitchen inventory; Fundraising; Silver tea; Service committee; Community service; Bibs

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Fellowship; Cleaning; Carpets; Kitchen; Women; Silver; Budget; Money management; Bazaars (Charities); Christmas; Tea; Lions Clubs International; Committees; Meetings; Sewing; Group homes for children; Orphans; Children

Partial Transcript: The different--uh--controversial things . . . but we have the sanctuary issue.

Segment Synopsis: Under Minister Bob Reed, First Unitarian decided to sponsor a refugee during the Vietnam War. Catholic Charities was sponsoring refugees to come to the U.S. from Vietnam and First Unitarian had offered to help them get established in Louisville. First Unitarian ended up assisting a single mother with three children. She had to get eye surgery soon after coming to the U.S. because of an issue with her eyelids. Donelly says that a group of church members helped get her to medical appointments and assisted with enrolling her children in school. The church also paid for an apartment on East Breckinridge Street when the family arrived in Louisville. Donelly says that agreeing to support the refugees was a collective decision by the whole congregation but only a handful of congregation members consistently helped out. Donelly became close to the refugees and exchanged Christmas cards with the family every year. The family moved to Southern California after the mother's parents came to Louisville and did not like it there. Donelly was invited to a family wedding at a Buddhist temple in Los Angeles. Donelly recalls that there were around four hundred guests and the wedding reception consisted of a large seafood dinner. Donelly was honored at the wedding when the family made an announcement thanking church members from First Unitarian for being their refugee sponsor.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Ministers; Robert Reed; Eye condition; Ocular surgery; East Breckinridge Street (Louisville, Ky.); Moving; Refugee cash assistance; Wedding reception; Refugee sponsors

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Refugees; Asylum, Right of; Catholic Charities USA; Vietnam; Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Refugees; Health; Children; Surgery; English as a Second Language; English; Vietnamese; Communication; Language learning and language teaching; Apartments; School enrollment; Loyalty; Parents; California; Christmas cards; Friendship; Wedding; Los Angeles (Calif.); Buddhists; Buddhist temples; Marriage; Chinese

Partial Transcript: Then came the--the refugees were escaping for sanctuary . . .

Segment Synopsis: Donelly says the Sanctuary Movement was started by churches making a pledge to feed, clothe, and protect refugees from Central America seeking asylum in the U.S. during the 1980s. Donelly believed it would be impossible to house asylum seekers in the church building because the congregation had previously determined that it was unsafe to have people living there when a program involving Bellarmine College students wanted to use the church for their living accommodations. Donelly agreed with the idea of helping the asylum seekers but was concerned about providing them with basic necessities in a sustainable way, especially since the church had experienced problems with initial widespread support and resources for the refugee family the church sponsored which eventually dwindled down to a small group of congregants helping consistently. Donelly also thought that the church should have set up a special committee to help care for the specific needs of asylum seekers. Donelly disagreed with Minister Reed on the sanctuary issue and felt that he took her opposition personally. Donelly expresses regret at speaking out against the sanctuary program and feels that her opinion carried more weight than it should have when she expressed her views at the congregational meeting.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Living conditions; Haywood House; Clothes; Ministers; Robert Reed; Opposition; Controversy; Congregational meeting; Congregants

Subjects: Sanctuary movement; Unitarians; Unitarianism; Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Asylum, Right of; Refugees; Central America; Housing; Students; Bellarmine University; Food; Protection; Sustainability

Partial Transcript: But that didn't bother me because we've been illegal in the past with abortion.

Segment Synopsis: Donelly says that several church members created an informal group to help refer women to doctors who would provide abortion services. This group of church members would also transport patients to and from their appointments. Donelly also mentions that First Unitarian was active in reproductive rights groups such as Planned Parenthood and the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. Donelly also discusses the church's support of conscientious objectors during the Vietnam War. First Unitarian, through word of mouth, became a valuable resource for young men looking to declare conscientious objector status in the military draft under an exemption protected by religious beliefs. Donelly says that other Protestant denominations in Louisville such as Presbyterian Church and the Religious Society of Friends (also known as Quakers) were also supportive of young men declaring conscientious objector status, regardless of whether they were church members. Donelly adds that not all congregants were supportive of conscientious objectors and it became a controversial issue in the church. On the other hand, Donelly says that many congregants were supportive of conscientious objectors coming to the church for help, including Minister Robert Reed and a church member who was a conscientious objector during World War I.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Healthcare; Controversial; Congregants; Ministers; Robert Reed

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Reproductive rights; Abortion; Physicians; Transportation; Planned Parenthood Federation of America; Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (U.S.); Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Conscientious objectors; Peace; Draft; Reputation; Presbyterian Church; Quakers; Veterans; World War I

Partial Transcript: Well what about any--any other staff that stands out in your mind . . .

Segment Synopsis: Donelly describes some of the church staff and church leaders of First Unitarian over the years. One organist who was at the church for several decades left the church to move to Chicago while Donelly was a member. Donelly was particularly close to one couple who she later visited at their home in Long Beach. Donelly describes the couple as "flower children" and recalls there was only a mattress in their bedroom. The husband was in poor health and had bladder cancer. The couple also adopted children and sent them to an unstructured school. Donelly also mentions that the husband wanted to send the children to an unconventional English boarding school but the wife convinced him not to have them move so far away. Donelly recalls one instance in which the church organist quit without notice on the Friday before Easter because he had gotten into a disagreement with someone. Donelly says First Unitarian has always had strong female leadership. The first female president of the UUA (Unitarian Universalist Association) was from First Unitarian. The congregation also has lots of veterans, including a woman who was in the WAACs (Women's Army Auxiliary Corps). Donelly observed that the national church leadership in Boston perceived First Unitarian to be more progressive and on the cutting-edge compared to east coast Unitarian churches.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Anne Miller; Religious education director; Choir director; Bladder cancer; Women in leadership; Progressive; East coast; Midwest

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Religious education; Organists; Choirs (Music); Long Beach (Calif.); Lifestyles; Health; Cancer; England; Education; Boarding schools; Adoption; Easter; Organs; Unitarian Universalist Association; Lions Clubs International; Leadership; Women; Veterans; Women's Army Corps Veterans Association (U.S.); Boston (Mass.); Couples

Partial Transcript: . . . What's the--what's the critical thing for us to do in the future, do you think?

Segment Synopsis: Donelly compares the position of First Unitarian on social issues to that of the national Unitarian leadership and also discusses the individual views of congregants. Donelly says First Unitarian allowing LGBTQ+ individuals to use their church for worship was progressive for Unitarians. Donelly also says accepting transgender people is considered progressive in national Unitarian circles. One of the current social issues the church is discussing is the concept of open relationships (also known as polyamory). Donelly believes that the church should not take a stance on open relationships, explaining that she thinks what people do in their private lives is nobody else's business. Donelly says some congregants do not like the presence of identity groups in the church because they are afraid that the groups will try to force their views on the entire congregation. Donelly thinks the national Unitarian Church does not understand the reason for First Unitarian's opposition to open relationships. In Donelly's view, the national Unitarian leadership believes the congregation is being anti-LGTBQ+ when in reality, Donelly says congregants are against the concept of open relationships. Donelly says it will be that congregants must embrace a mutual acceptance of one another regardless of their personal choices. Donelly emphasizes growing the church gradually and advocates for continued fiscal responsibility in future church leadership.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Social issues; LGBTQ+; Progressive; Accepting; Controversy; UUA; Polyamory; Open relationships; Obligations; Congregants

Subjects: Unitarians; Unitarianism; Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Gays; Worship; Fellowship; Transgender people; Unitarian Universalist Association; Endowments; Money; Growth; Responsibility; Church membership

Partial Transcript: Well, what do you think of the strongpoints of our current minister--uh--what has he brought to the--?

Segment Synopsis: Donelly believes that the future of the church depends on the decisions made by people in their 40s and 50s. Donelly says it is time for older people like herself to step down from church leadership and let the next generation take over. Donelly adds that her generation will not be there to take responsibility for their leadership decisions about the church in the future. Donelly hopes that the church will continue to grow in the future but believes it is important for the church to retain its position as "the conscious of the community" since First Unitarian has taken so many progressive stances on social issues in the past. Donelly says the church has great potential to be a force of change on social issues despite its small size. Donelly discusses the segregated nature of Unitarianism, which can be traced back to early proponents of the church who were enslavers, like Thomas Jefferson. In Donelly's view, the church uses its history with enslavement and supposed cultural differences as excuses not to make greater efforts to create a diverse congregation. Donelly adds that she enjoyed the couples club because it allowed people to meet each other in a more intimate way by gathering at their homes and wishes First Unitarian would bring back this club in the future.

Keywords: First Unitarian Church of Louisville; Community; Enslavement; Couples club; Ministers

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Jefferson County (Ky.); Unitarians; Unitarianism; Leadership; Racism; Unitarian churches--History; Blacks; African Americans; Prejudice; Segregation; Slavery; Morals; Culture; Fellowship; Friendship; Couples; Social; Leadership