Oral History Interview with Cecil Dunn

A. Taylor: Could you please tell us your full name.

C. Dunn: Cecil Lewis Dunn; (she spells the middle name—LEWIS).

A. Taylor: So, when, and where were you born in Garrard County?

C. Dunn: Lancaster, Kentucky 1:00A. Taylor: May I ask your birthdate?

C. Dunn: (5-12-24) , . . . . 1924.

J. Blythe: That would be May 12, 1924.

A. Taylor: Will you please tell us about your family, like your parents, grandparents, brothers, and sisters?

C. Dunn: I only know, ah, only one of my grandparents , that was my father’s father; his name was Jake Dunn, my father’s father.

A. Taylor: Any other grandparents?

C. Dunn: I knew their names, I didn’t know ‘em personally. But my, ah, my grandmother, 2:00because I never did even see them, but let me give you my mother’s . . . her father’s name was George Aldridge and her mother’s name was Ella Belle. They both passed away during the flu epidemic. That was either in 1917 or 1918. There was a big flu epidemic. Her mother’s father, two sisters, two brothers, they died. Yeah.

J. Blythe: What was Miss Ella Belle’s maiden name?

C. Dunn: Hood.

J. Blythe: Hood?

C. Dunn: Yeah. Do you remember Jim Hood (directed to J. Blythe:); they built this house. He was my great uncle. 3:00A. Taylor: What about your parents?

C. Dunn: My parents? Her name, my mother’s name was Elsie Aldridge.

A. Taylor: Can you spell that please?

C. Dunn: ALDRIDGE, Aldridge. And my father’s name was Benjamin Harrison Dunn, you know.

A. Taylor: How would you describe your family life?

C. Dunn: Rough, I was born. . ., I had a good life because my father was a good provider. But I came along through the Depression time and the people really had it rough. Of course, I was too young to know how rough it really was, but I know when people next door 4:00would. . .you wanted to borrow coffee, and sugar to sweeten it, and you didn’t have all that, because it was in ’24, so it, the Depression, really hit in ’32. I was a pretty good-sized boy. I remember the hard times; it was really hard. But my mother never did work out for anybody because she had a bunch of children. I had six sisters and no brothers. I had to work . I had to work, honey. I had three sisters older and three younger.

J. Blythe: Would you give us the names of your sisters?

C. Dunn: My oldest sister was Christine, Emma Christine , when she passed her last name was Doty. My next sister 5:00was named Nancy which was married to Buford Smith at her death. My next oldest sister was named Willie Perkins, at her death; she was married to Jack Perkins, Hassel Perkins was his name. And then my next sister is still living, Elizabeth Dabney, she lives in Lexington. My next sister is named Helen Landford (he spells the last name--LANDFORD) and she lives in Kansas City, Missouri. My baby sister which is deceased. She passed away. She had a hemorrhage, bled to death out of her mouth when she was about 6:0018 months old. Those were my sisters.

S. Roberts: Mr. Dunn, can you please tell us about your childhood? What was it like for you growing up in Lancaster?

C. Dunn: Oh, I enjoyed it. Lancaster was a good town. It was better really than it is now, I think because, ah, I had a lot of friends, . . . .lot of friends. I was born and raised right here in this area where I live now; I grew up right near next door. I was born right on down the street. This is where I’ve been all my life right here on Buford Street right in this same area. I lived in the Projects for a brief period, but I couldn’t live there long because they said I was making too much money. They wanted to raise my rent, so I bought this house here in 1969. So, 7:00I’ve been here since then. But life was good for me, I guess. As I told you my father was a good provider. In fact, in those days if you had a place to live and plenty of food, then that’s just about what it was all about! And we had plenty of that. We had plenty where other people didn’t have. Daddy was a good provider. And he had plenty of friends. People believed in helping each other, you know. It ain’t like it is now; if you ain’t got it, it’s your fault now, but it wasn’t like that when I came along. I . . .started school in 1930. So, at our school, you know, back then, I don’t know whether the WP {WPA] had started then, where they got the free lunch at school, 8:00but lunch only cost a penny. . ..But I never did get nothing free because they wouldn’t give it to me on account of my father {implied that his father worked and had resources]. It was good, too. I went, to the 11th grade, and I quit like a big dummy. I don’t know why I quit, but I could have gone to college on a football scholarship if I had not quit. I could have went to Kentucky State, but I went down there, me and James Ballew, and we both just quit and come back home and got married and went into the service, too, you know, for a short spell. But life was good, I thought life was better than it was even In Lancaster and Garrard County even before integration taken over. Now integration was good in one way, but it wasn’t so good in another way. 9:00Because years ago, during the Depression when times were so hard and ever’thing, we had, uh, we had our own black doctor here in this town. We had our--a black grocery store and another place where you could buy things, James I. Evans, at a place over across town, at a place what they call the “Shoot” or “Chute” [Blythe—I am unsure of the correct spelling of this reference to North Campbell and East Maple Streets]. Then we had a , a black mortician, which was Will Johnson, the undertaker, he was related or not (implied being related to Mr. Will Johnson), I don’t know if he was related to Dr. Johnson. I know you can’t remember Dr. Johnson (question directed to J. Blythe:).

J. Blythe: I do.

C. Dunn: Do you really?

J. Blythe: Yes, vaguely.

C. Dunn: He had a real nice wife and two nice girls.

J. Blythe: I remember them. Now do you remember his first name?

C. Dunn: Oh, Doc’s first name? I don’t ever remember hearing his first name. The undertaker was William H. Johnson, I think, but I can’t remember Doc’s first name. 10:00J. Blythe: But he was here, and he delivered a lot of people, because he delivered me.

C. Dunn: He said he delivered 5000 babies and never lost a mother. That’s a lot of babies, wasn’t it?

J. Blythe: Yes Sir.

C. Dunn: I guess it was white and black, too (reference here is to babies; Mr. Dunn implies that Dr. Johnson delivered both white and black babies).

C. Dunn: He was a good doctor. They say, he was the best pneumonia doctor. Back in those days there was lots of pneumonia (cases) because people lived in houses that wasn’t up to date (not well insulated). . ., and people taken a lot of pneumonia. They died from pneumonia, flu, and different things like that.

J. Blythe: You mentioned that there was a black grocery store?

C. Dunn: Yeah, right next door to my house and that wasn’t good for me either.

J. Blythe: Was that the store that Mr. Burdette 11:00 owned?

C. Dunn: Mr. Herbert Burdette. Now the first owner of the store was Dan Bogie, a little bitty man, oh, about 5 foot tall, I guess, maybe. Now Mr. Burdette came in this town from up around Middleboro, Kentucky (reference implied that the town would be Knox County, Kentucky) I believe and married Mrs. Maggie (Margaret) Burdette. And she used to teach down at Boones Creek. She was the teacher down there. And I think she taught some at Flatwoods, too, maybe during her tenure. I think maybe she did. But then after Mr. Bogie died, Mr. Burdette just stayed on in the store, you know. He got it real easy you know. He had a real good business and people really patronized him, you know, because you could get so much on the book (Blythe—he offered credit to customers), until he would stop you. I would hear him fussing at the people when they owed him so much, but he would continue to let them have things (have credit) on the book.

J. Blythe: And you mentioned another store that was on the Shoot, what kind of store?

C. Dunn: It was like a little grocery store. James I. Evans had a little restaurant type store. Sometimes they would sell food, sandwiches, and things like that in there. 12:00His name was James I. Evans.

J. Blythe: Evans. Ok.

J. Blythe: Do you know the history of the name of Duncantown, where we got this name Duncantown?

C. Dunn: Not really, I don’t know how that come about. But I know how they got that name down there on down in Bunkers Lane.

J. Blythe: Could you tell us about that?

C. Dunn: That was my great uncle. His name was Willie Adams. And his wife’s name was Emma Adams, you know, Hood, that was Jim Hood’s sister, you know. And they called him Bunker or something like that, Adams. So, they just called it Bunker’s Lane, you know because he had a business up in there. He had a slaughter pen; he had a ice route and he bought iron 13:00and copper, and bones, and just all that kind of stuff. And I seen him with buckets of money during hard times.

J. Blythe: During the Depression?

C. Dunn: During the Depression days, he had buckets of money.

J. Blythe: And when you talk about the ice route that was just taking blocks of ice around?

C. Dunn: Blocks of ice, yeah. He had a place where he could kind of store it , too, but he would go up there to Creamery Street, which is Hamilton Avenue now, and then have 100 # block and he’d chip it plumb down to a 25# block, or 12 and a half #, and then on a day like today a block wouldn’t last long.

J. Blythe: What would people do with those blocks of ice? 14:00C. Dunn: That’s what they had for their water, to cool their water, for mealtime, lunch time. They might have enough for later, but it was hard to keep, you know, during the hot days like it is now. And it did get hot back in those days, as well as it got cold. . . .He died, . . . he must have died in ’34 because he drank a lot and he had my auntie a pistol and she, of course, didn’t know anything about guns, you know but she put it there (he pointed) and she shot him right there in the stomach, and he died and that broke up the good times because he really took care of the people down in here. He made a lot of money. He was a little short man, but he knowed how, he was just gifted, you know, in making money, you know.

J. Blythe: You mentioned that you didn’t know how we came about with the name Duncantown, 15:00how about Middlesboro?

C. Dunn: I don’t know about that either.

J. Blythe: Do you know anything about the “Shoot”?

C. Dunn: That (the name) came because there were shootings, somebody getting shot every Saturday night. It was a lot of lives lost down there, all up through the years. That’s the reason why they called it that.

S. Roberts: You started talking about the good things about integration, can you please tell me some of the bad things about it?

C. Dunn: Oh, integration was, uh as I said, as I told you ah, before integration we had people that really excelled and went on to greater heights, you know, out to do more than what they do right now. Because ah, I don’t why it is, but we don’t have too many now, even with the way they have upgraded the education. I don’t think they are doing 16:00as well now as they did back in the times when it was so hard for us, you know. Times was really hard for the blacks back in those days, you know because we didn’t have the books that the whites had. But the teachers put so much into it to make sure that you had to learn. You had to learn! And I don’t care if it was a one-room school, or if it had three or four grades in that room, they had to learn! I don’t think they were that strict on them after integration because I see kids now that can’t read as well as I can.

S. Roberts: Now you said that you started school in 1930, can you please tell me about your first school?

C. Dunn: Oh yeah, 17:00it seems like a week or a month or a year to me, from Monday to Friday. We only went to school from September to. . and school was out in March. And I went to a four-room school. And I think long about the time when I started school is when they started teaching up to the 12th grade, you know. It’s long about the time when Mrs. Merritt got started , too, you know, teaching. But, ah, my first principal , I believe, as I remember, her name was Mrs. Laura Chase, a big bright, mean ,woman. We feared her, like she was a lion or something. She got our respect I’ll tell you, cause we was ‘fraid of her! Mrs. Laura Chase.

J. Blythe: Where was Mrs. Chase from?

C. Dunn: I don’t know, I thought she come from where the devil come from. 18:00I don’t know, I guess I knew then, but I done forgot. But she lived right there where Sarah Williams lived, in that house right there with those people, with Sarah’s auntie and them. She was right there where she could keep an eye on me, going and coming. I mean I walked the straight and narrow, too! And then my next principal I remember was Mr. Carl Burnside. And he must have been from down in the Davistown area. I don’t know whether he was teaching down there or what not, but he was the next principal.

J. Blythe: Where was this school? The four-room school, where was it located?

C. Dunn: Where I started? On Totten Ave. On Totten. Do you know where James Franklin Warren lives (question is directed to J. Blythe:)?

J. Blythe: Yes, sir.

C. Dunn: It was just about in that area right there. 19:00J. Blythe: Is that what they called the Lancaster Colored School?

C. Dunn: Yeah, um hum; it was on Totten Ave.

S. Roberts: Do you remember any of your teachers?

C. Dunn: Oh yeah, I remember all of them. My first teacher was, when I first started school was Miss Susie B. Letcher. Now she (pointing to J. Blythe:) can remember her. She got killed right down here on Lexington Pike; I was getting ready to go to work. Her and her husband both (implying both Rev. William and Mrs. Covington were killed in the accident). And then, my next teacher was uh, Mrs. Ruth Meyers, I guess. She was teaching the third, fourth, and fifth grades. Then my next teacher was one that we all dearly loved, she was Miss Lillie Mason. She taught the sixth, 20:00seventh, and eighth grades. By the time I got that far, my next teacher was Mrs. Tommie Merritt. She was teaching in high school. That was my last teacher. Those were my teachers. Because I didn’t go to anymore. I didn’t go to Mr. Payne. Oh, ah, there was Mr. Miller, my football coach; he was my teacher, too. Mr. L. Miller. He was an all-American end for Kentucky State, and he was our football coach. And we did have a good team!

J. Blythe: I’ve heard some wonderful stories about that football team.

C. Dunn: O boy, we could really, we could really rack up some touchdowns.

J. Blythe: Mr. Dunn, 21:00what did Mrs. Merritt teach? What classes did you take from her?

C. Dunn: Mathematics and science, all branches of mathematics and science.

A. Taylor: You said that you loved Miss Lillie Mason?

C. Dunn: Oh yeah, everybody did.

A. Taylor: Why did they love her so much?

C. Dunn: We built a . . .I’m the Vice President of Habitat and I’ve been dealing with houses about over 15 years you know, and where we built at. . .did you {directed to J.Blythe} take them {student researchers} down there to show them the last houses we built?

J. Blythe: We’re going to see them later.

C. Dunn: That is what we named it—Mason Estates—and we built 12 houses up there. And that’s where our school (the Mason School) sat at. Did you {Blythe} show them a picture of our school?

J. Blythe: They have a picture of it (the Mason School).

C. Dunn: They’ve already seen it (the school). It was my first year, and we debate all the time about it, but it was my first year in high school, when they started and opened that school up. 22:00J. Blythe: What year was that?

C. Dunn: Well, you can just count it up through the years from when I started and it was about 1940, 1939 or 1940.. . . It was my first year in high school. It was a very new school.

J. Blythe:. . . that was named in honor of Miss Lillie Mason?

C. Dunn: Yes, oh, yes, that’s the reason why we named it and that’s why we built those 12 houses there, you know, Mason Estates.

S. Roberts: And you played football for Mason High School?

C. Dunn: Yeah, it’s where I played; it was the only school I attended, yeah.

J. Blythe: What position when you played football?

C. Dunn: I was a running back, running back, scoring them touchdowns girl, one right after another. 23:00J. Blythe: Who were some of the other people that played on the team?

C. Dunn: They called me, uh, James Eddie Ballew. You know the Ballews? He was the fastest thing on the team, he could score ‘em too.

J. Blythe: Yes, sir I do.

C. Dunn: James Eddie was the fastest thing on the field. He could score ‘em too. They called me Mr. Inside and they called him Mr. Outside, because when he turned that corner on you, it was goodbye. He was long gone. Of course, we had Charles Buford. . .Charles was our quarterback. . . .I can’t name all the guards, tackles, and ends and things; that would be too much. . . .

S. Roberts: And you received a full scholarship from K-state to play football?

C. Dunn: I was gonna get a full scholarship, but I quit. Joe Patterson, you remember the name Joe Patterson don’t you (directed to J. Blythe:) and Maurice Bogle? They liked to have died! They did everything to get us in there 24:00(to Kentucky State College/University) because we could score them touchdowns, you know, but then we wouldn’t go.

S. Roberts: Why didn’t you go?

C. Dunn: Oh, we were young and dumb! We both got married right after that, you know. Then we started our families. I had a bunch of children, and he had a bunch of children. I had six and he had six, seven or eight I don’t know (he is referring to Mr. James Eddie Ballew).

J. Blythe: Who did you marry?

C. Dunn: Francis Logan.

J. Blythe: And how long were you all married?

C. Dunn: Oh , she passed away three years ago, 60 years, I guess, or better.

J. Blythe: How many children?

C. Dunn: Two girls and four boys.

J. Blythe: And how many grandchildren do you have?

C. Dunn: Oh, I’ll have to start to count ‘em. Let’s see, Delores has got two; now you count ‘em as I come up with ‘em(--requesting 25:00Blythe to count as he speaks). Rodney has got. . . three; Cecil Frances had two, two boys; Ernest, two; and Wilbur, one; and Terry, one. And some of those children’s got children. Eleven, that’s about right.

J. Blythe: We have eleven; eleven grandchildren? And you also have great-grandchildren?

C. Dunn: Yeah.

J. Blythe: And your oldest daughter, Delores, 26:00can you tell us a little bit about what she did over the years and what she has been doing recently? I know she has retired from teaching.

C. Dunn: Yes, she just worked her last day last Friday at the bank out there on Broadway, a week or so ago, Chase Bank.

J. Blythe: Now which school did she teach at in Lexington?

C. Dunn: Over in Lexington, oh, she taught at two or three different ones. I knew them then, but I can’t remember the names of them (schools) right now.

J. Blythe: But she did teach for over 30 years?

C. Dunn: 28 or 29 years.

J. Blythe: In the Fayette County? In different schools in Fayette County School System?

And what did she teach?

C. Dunn: I forget even which grades she taught now, but she could teach all the way through the system. She had the education. But I think she taught the 4th, 5th, and 6th grade, maybe, I remember her saying that the children were getting so young 27:00and bad they were and things….

J. Blythe: Kind of middle school and elementary school, but also a little bit in high school?

C. Dunn: Yes.

J. Blythe: I think Allyse is gonna talk a little bit now about church.

A. Taylor: So, will you describe your family’s involvement in church, the place of religion in your life?

C. Dunn: Now what did you say, honey?

A. Taylor: Would you describe your family’s involvement in church and where was religion in your life?

C. Dunn: Well, I only attended one church in my whole life, right here in my back door, First Baptist Church, here in Lancaster. Any my pastor that I was converted under was Rev. Redd, S. G. Redd, I guess was his full name?

J. Blythe: Yes, sir, Rev. S. G. Redd.

C. Dunn: S. G. Redd, yeah. When I was about 13 years old and I’ve been there in that same church all my life and I’m only a trustee now, but I shoulda been a deacon or preacher or som’um, I don’t know. I’m 28:00just a trustee, but it’s a honor just to be that.

A. Taylor: Did your parents take you to church growing up?

C. Dunn: Well, they didn’t have to, I lived right in the church’s door. I lived right there next door. The church was right in my back yard. Me and my mother, she belonged to First Baptist. My father never did join the church, never did join the church, but he was a, I believe he was a good Christian, and he knew him some Bible, he knew some Bible. He could quote you all kind of scriptures and things, but as far as I know, I don’t believe Daddy belonged to church. But he was a good person. He was a good man. 29:00J. Blythe: What kinds of things did your mother do in the church?

C. Dunn: She was just there. She didn’t have a job or anything. Mama was so busy with everything at home and raising children and everything, she didn’t get involved too much in around and out, you know. Which I guess she could have, but she just didn’t. Some people do and some don’t, you know.

A. Taylor: How would you describe the services growing up? What was a typical Sunday like?

C. Dunn: Oh, I loved it, loved it. We had always just about a full congregation, whereas now we don’t have very many. The old people would be there and the songs that they sang was just. . , I just enjoyed going. . .All up through the years, I enjoyed going. And even when my kids got big enough to go to church and everything, Cecil Francis, and Delores, they had a BYPU, an evening service, and ah, I believe that group that sang, 30:00I believe they called ‘em the Gospel Pearls, if I’m remembering right.

J. Blythe: I think that’s the name. I remember.

C. Dunn: Yeah, I just loved those kids. I really enjoyed them. Cause I’ve been in church pretty much all of my life.

A. Taylor: Do you remember your baptism?

C. Dunn: Oh, yes, too well.

A. Taylor: Can you describe that for us?

C. Dunn: There wasn’t much to describe because the other churches had to go to be baptized in a pond or creek or something, but at our church, we had a pool, an in-door pool. And they would dress you up in your white pants and your white shirts. They’d dress you up to be baptized. And they would sing them old songs. I remember 31:00right now, the deacons would sing, with those heavy voices –“Wade in the Water Children.” (there is a knock at his door—tape stopped).

A. Taylor: You were saying you remembered singing the songs at baptism,. . .

C. Dunn: Oh, yes, ah she knows about those (songs—he is directing the comment to J. Blythe:); it’s about now like it was back then, she remembers. They sing the same songs then as now.

J. Blythe: “Wade in the Water Children” was one of the common songs they sang. Do you remember the names of any of the deacons at the church at the time?

C. Dunn: Oh, yes, Mr. Andrew Burdette. . . .I don’t he belonged down at Boones Creek 32:00at that time. That was your grandfather, wasn’t it (he is directing the question to J. Blythe:)?

J. Blythe: James was my grandfather.

C. Dunn: Yes, that’s right, James, not Andrew, Mr. Crother Anderson, Herbert Burdette, he was a deacon, Mr. Jim Miller. We had a bunch of deacons, and Mr. Tom Kemper. I guess there was more, but I can’t think of them right now. There was quite a few deacons. They were all good men, too. They were well thought of, too.

A. Taylor: Do you remember names of families who attended the church?

C. Dunn: Oh yeah, Burdettes, ah, 33:00Bufords, Andersons, Ballews, Hoods, oh, there were much more. . .. I could go on and on and on. At that time, we had more members than the other churches all together because the Methodist Church wasn’t too active and the church out at Middlesboro wasn’t too active as First Baptist Church.

J. Blythe: When you talk about the Methodist Church, would that be Saint Andrews A.M.E. Methodist Church on the Shoot?

C. Dunn: Yes, down on “the Shoot”. 34:00And Miss Lillie Mason and her aunt ,Miss Emma Miller. .. and Miss Harriet Mason, her mother (Miss Lillie’s Mason). . . and Miss Sophia Owens, I believe she belonged to First Baptist, and then the Garths, Rev. Garth, Evelyn Garth and all them, they were Methodists.

J. Blythe: And they were at Saint Andrews?

C. Dunn: Yes, out on Maple Street.

J. Blythe: Do you remember any of the people that attended Saint Paul Predestinarian, any families?

C. Dunn: Way years ago?

J. Blythe: Yes sir.

C. Dunn: Let me see, the Turpins; they moved from there to Richmond. I think they went to that church. And 35:00I believe the Doty’s, some of the Doty’s, and then some of them went to First Baptist, too, you know up Doty Lane. . .. , some of those . . .I can’t remember any more at this time.

J. Blythe: I know at one time Rev. Covington was he Mrs. Susie Letcher’s husband. Did he pastor that church?

C. Dunn: Yes, he was pastor there when he was killed.

J. Blythe: Do you remember his first name?

C. Dunn: Oh, you throwed me for a loop. . . I probably could have, but you’ve made me forget. 36:00. . . . . . people would just get hung up on the Rev. and never think about the given name. Hmm. . . He was related to all those Covingtons all around Richmond, Berea and up there.

J. Blythe: We can do some more research on that. But he was related to the Covingtons in Madison County?

C. Dunn: Yeah, I think so. There was quite a few of ‘em up there.

A. Taylor: What about church activities, what do you remember about church activities?

C. Dunn: Oh, when I was telling you all about the Gospel Pearls and things, that was one of the activities at the church. Then, we just had regular service and things. 37:00You had Sunday School and regular morning service. And back in them days, you had evening services, lots of evening services which we don’t have any more. I don’t think there’s as much going on now back then, as it was when I was coming along. ‘Cause I didn’t pay much attention. . .I was just going to church. I never thought I would be asked questions about it, it never dawned on me too much.

A. Taylor: So, you don’t remember any special gatherings?

C. Dunn: Oh, the only thing I would remember , I was so bad about, was the Easter Egg Hunts. And I would find the “Lucky Egg” every year because I could look right out of my bedroom window, right down on the lot where they would hide them at. I remember that. And I would always win the “prize egg” because I knew where it was at.

A. Taylor: They didn’t catch on to you.

C. Dunn: Oh no, no. They never 38:00knew any better. I never told them. They just thought. . .I felt bad about it now, but I shouldn’t have did it, you know, but then I thought it was funny.

S. Roberts: What was in the “Prize Egg”?

C. Dunn: Well, sometimes, they’d maybe have a quarter, one time I remember they had a dollar! Boy that was a lot of money then, that was an egg, you know. They would have a plastic, not a real egg, and they would put the money in it. I think a dollar was the most they ever put in 39:00them back in those days.

A. Taylor: What about community gatherings, things that brought the community together?

C. Dunn: What?

A. Taylor: [Repeats question].

C. Dunn: Community gatherings?. . .Oh I don’t, they would just come together automatically I thought. . . They’d have different things I guess that people could get involved in and invite different churches. . .that’s what she’s talking about ? (referring to A. Taylor:’s question).

J. Blythe: Well,. . . holiday celebrations, 4th of July. . .

C. Dunn: No, not at our church; nothing like that at First Baptist.

J. Blythe: Anything else in the community that went on during 40:00those holidays, celebrations?

C. Dunn: Oh yeah, on the 30th of May, they would have big celebrations down here at the cemetery.

J. Blythe: What did that include?

C. Dunn: Oh, a big parade. They’d be playing music. . . .Back in them days, they had people who could play music, they’d have bands. There was a man, Mr. Artis Spillman, a big dark-complexted (complexion) man, who rode a big white horse. And my daddy would be like the one who counts cadence. They’d be marching like soldiers, they would be shooting the rifles, that’s shotguns you know. Oh, it was a big day!

J. Blythe: That was to honor the veterans?

C. Dunn: The veterans, yes. And Daddy was really into that. 41:00He could write real good and everything. And he and another fellow named Homer Jennings, a white fellow, would , my father and another man Ben Woods, he worked at the drug store; he wrote prescriptions. And with those three men there, Daddy was kind of like the secretary, he could write better than they could. They would sign a lot of people up for pensions, and they got it, and different things like that. But Daddy was involved in a lot of things like that, but not too much with the church, but with other things.

J. Blythe: Was there a lodge or any kind of groups like that during that time that you remember?

C. Dunn: Yes, up on the hill up there, 42:00was the Odd Fellows Lodge, and over here where Mrs. Merritt and . . . belonged to was the Benevolent, the Benevolent Lodge and even in my days for years and years and years, I was the Master of the lodge right across the street. And your father (J. Blythe:’s father), you know, belonged to, you know.

J. Blythe: I think that was Sunshine # 98.

C. Dunn: Yes, Sunshine # 98. I was the Master of it for years and years and years. And then we were delinquent, we weren’t--have any meetings and things, and they were going to shut our lodge down. So, we had to demit. And Robert Wilkinson talked us into going to Somerset, which was a bad decision. . .I should have gone to Richmond or Lexington or something, But I went down to Somerset and had a brand-new building and things. And Lucian died and Taylor Leavell died, Robert Lee and 43:00, . . .we had a good lodge, one of the best in the state of Kentucky.

J. Blythe: What kinds of things did the different lodges do that you can remember?

C. Dunn: Oh, we did a lot of thing[s]. We’d help the community. We would give away Christmas baskets, help the needy, anybody needing something, we would help them (his phone rings) and all that. . .

J. Blythe: You were talking about the way that different lodges helped in the community, Christmas baskets, and. . I know scholarships were given so that children in the community go on to college.

C. Dunn: Oh, yeah, scholarships. 44:00J. Blythe: It’s good to know about all those lodges because we had not found all of that.

A. Taylor: I know you’ve talked about being in the service. Would you talk about that? Were any other members of your family in the military?

C. Dunn: My father was he was in World War I. I think he went in a Private and came out a Private. . .That’s the way his discharge reads anyway. I went in September of ‘43 and got out in ’46. And when I got out, 45:00I was a Sergeant. I served in the China-Burma-India Theater, which is called the CBI Theater.

J. Blythe: Would you say that again, China, . ...?

C. Dunn: China, Burma, and India Theater.

A. Taylor: What were some of your responsibilities?

C. Dunn: Oh, I had a lot of responsibilities. I was a platoon leader and then I taken the first 13 men out of my outfit over the hump out of Burma into India where they were fighting at, that 46:00was really something; I don’t care to think too much about it. I never thought I would come back to Lancaster. I thought that was all of it, you know, over there. But I never did get hurt or anything. . .I wasn’t wounded in action or anything. . .I got two Bronze Stars for being in that Theater. I’ve got ‘em up there somewhere (he points to his framed stars hanging on the wall).

J. Blythe: We see them. Could we get a picture of that?

C. Dunn: Yes, if you want to.

J. Blythe: We will when we finish. We’ll do that.

C. Dunn: Then I got out on points, with me being up on the front line, you know. They send you home on points and when you’re on the front line you get more points than the other people did. 47:00But I didn’t want to be in the Army. But Daddy wanted me to be in the Army. But I got out on points. I got out in March of ’46.

J. Blythe: You mentioned earlier that recently you went to Washington, D.C. when they honored the World War II veterans, could you tell us little bit about that experience? And did anybody else from this area go?

C. Dunn: It was the 22nd of May. No, I got five applications and gave them out. And Walter Anderson, down the street, you remember they called him “Mouse”, Mouse wouldn’t go; Arthur Lewis, couldn’t go, so I gave the other applications to five of my white friends 48:00and did none of them go. But I was the only black on the plane that was going, that went; the rest of ‘em was all white veterans. The oldest of them on there was 93 years old and we had a real good trip. We seen a lot and learned a lot, too, but I don’t know if I can explain. But I got to see everything that I really wanted to, pertaining to World War II veterans and what they were doing for us, you know. But it was a very enjoyable trip. We were there just for a day, but you can see lots in a day. We left. . .we were over there at 5:30, ready to go at 5:30 in the morning over at Louisville. And we got back to Louisville about 8:30 that night. 49:00And everything was free, it was free, anything you wanted, it didn’t cost us one penny.

J. Blythe: Was there a parade or color guard?

C. Dunn: No, there was no parade or nothing like that. We were able to tour, just touring. . .

S. Roberts: You mentioned that your father was in the military, and you were in the military, can you tell us a little bit more about the kind of work that your family did here in Lancaster?

C. Dunn: In Kentucky? Well, my father he was a janitor; he had a good job. His last job he was a janitor at the Post Office. And before 50:00that he always run heavy equipment and machinery and things like that. So, he always had a good job, daddy did. And he worked up until he was about in his 70s before he quit. And then he died suddenly . . he had a heart attack. . ..and that was it!

S. Roberts: And what did your mother do?

C. Dunn: What did my mother do? She baby-sit; she didn’t do nothing; she was just a housewife, you know. She took care of all us children.

J. Blythe: So, she did not work out of the home?

C. Dunn: No ma’am, not at all.

S. Roberts: What kind of chores did you do at home? 51:00C. Dunn: Ooh, whatever there was that needed to be done—cook, wash, iron, sew, carry coal, make fires, clean up the house. Whatever the girls did, my sisters, I did. I can do everything now, if I want to, because of my mother’s training right along with the rest of the kids. . . . But I guess I had a good life. . .I don’t regret any of it.

J. Blythe: It sounds like you value a lot of the things that you learned from your family. Can you identify some of the values that you have held in your life that you learned from your mother and father and other people?

C. Dunn: Oh, yeah. I learned from daddy mostly, just how to 52:00raise gardens and all that stuff because I had to do that and stuff like that in order to feed the family, you know. But I had some uncles that were carpenters. Uncle Jim built his house and a lot--others in town. His brother. . .Uncle Alfred, the house right up the street, he built that one. And Charlie Hood, who lived on down in Duncantown, right next door to Mrs. Anna Mae, he was a brother to them Hoods and he was a carpenter, too. So, I learned carpentry and that has been real helpful for me in helping other people, in . . . .I’ve did everything. I quit one of the best jobs I ever had in Richmond.

J. Blythe: Tell us about some of the work you have held and work you’ve done.

C. Dunn: I had a good job at the Bluegrass Ordinance/Army Depot. I went up there as a grade 3 and before you know it, I was a grade 4, and before you know it, I was a grade 6, 53:00and . . .a grade 8. And I quit, they were going to give me a grade 12. I just quit and didn’t go back to work again. I had one of the best jobs up there. of the blacks up there. Of course, they had quite a few blacks as supervisors. They had Effe Leavell across the street, he was a supervisor; others were Tom Dudley, Z. V. Irvine, oh, Frank Mitchell, I think he should have been . . .. he was a real knowledgeable black man. They had several black supervisors up there. But I was a truck driver; I had a good record for driving. But I decided that I was going to quit, and I did. That’s about how I was about anything. . . Of course, I used 54:00to cut hair, I worked in a barber shop. . .(the phone rings). .., worked with Robert Harold. . ..Are we back again (after the phone call). . ..

J. Blythe: You said that you worked in a barber shop, there was a Casket Factory here at one time?

C. Dunn: I was a supervisor for 19 years at the Casket Factory. I was over metal assembly.

J. Blythe: I know that you are involved in lots of things here in the community. Do you have any hobbies, just things that you do just for yourself?

C. Dunn: Mostly for other people.

J. Blythe: Mostly for other people. 55:00What are some of those things?

C. Dunn: I build houses for some of ‘em to live in and some of ‘em don’t even say thank you.

J. Blythe: So, you’re still working for Habitat?

C. Dunn: Vice President. I just stepped down from the chairman of the board of the Housing Authority out here. I was there for better than 15 years, chairman of the board. . . .

J. Blythe: We’ve done some research and we have found the names of some communities in the county. And I just want to find out if you can tell us about Point 56:00Leavell, Lowell, or Hackley?

C. Dunn: I know where they are, but I don’t know too much about it.

J. Blythe: But they, those areas have existed?. . .

C. Dunn: They certainly did. They were all going east of Lancaster.

J. Blythe: And how about Spaineytown? Have you ever heard of it?

C. Dunn: What? Spell it.

J. Blythe: Spaineytown, we’re not real sure. . . SPAINEYTOWN.

C. Dunn: Spaineytown. No, no, that’s don’t ring a bell.

J. Blythe: How about Johns Bottoms?

C. Dunn: No, that don’t either.

J. Blythe: And we’ve heard about a school in the county called the Coomer School? Are you familiar with any. . .

C. Dunn: I know some Coomers, the only Coomers I know live right down here at where you turn to go down to Herrington Lake; those 57:00were the only Coomers that I ever knew.

J. Blythe: Have you lived any place else in your lifetime other than Garrard County?

C. Dunn: Other than the time I was in the military. . . .the only place.

A. Taylor: So, can you tell me about family values?

C. Dunn: What kind of values are you talking about?

A. Taylor: Anything that you got from your parents? Anything that they thought was of value?

C. Dunn: Well, my mother taught me to be a good person, a good boy, because she didn’t want her boy to end up somewhere in some type of reform school or anything like that. Everybody, when I was coming up, was afraid 58:00of the reform school. Daddy didn’t have too much time to talk to you about too much of nothing because he was working all the time. But Mama did all the talking; she was busy working all the time, too. She was always working.

J. Blythe: Did you all own property in town?

C. Dunn: We owned a house right next door. Daddy bought it in 1937, long about the time of the flood. Did you hear them talk about the big flood (question is directed to J. Blythe:)?

J. Blythe: I’ve heard them talk about it. Could you tell us about that?

C. Dunn: It was about 1937. It flooded Louisville, Frankfort, and Cincinnati. At that time, it was so widespread, that they had to set up camps, like refugee camps and things. 59:00And over the store, they had places up there to house the people. And they brought some “bad” kids that come out of Louisville and Frankfort and Cincinnati here. They were bad, we were bad, but they were a different kind of “bad.” And then I think they even housed some in the hotel in Lancaster. They had a hotel, a nice hotel up there. I think they housed some people for some time there. I think it was one of the biggest flood[s] in Kentucky ever I knowed of.

J. Blythe: So, they brought a lot of refugees into Lancaster. . . and housed them here?

C. Dunn: Refugees, yeah,. . . . Louisville and Frankfort and Cincinnati and places. . .

J. Blythe: Based on your experiences, 60:00what kind of advice would you give to younger generations and to future generations?

C. Dunn: Get all the education that they can get if they can. Because it’s something that’s gonna be a must in later days. Years ago, you could get by without any education. But not so now, you gotta get an education, get those books, and stay with ‘em. .If you don’t, you’re going to be really hurting. There’ll be no jobs for you if you don’t get an education.

J. Blythe: Now, I know your children went to college, where were some of the schools that your children attended?

C. Dunn: Well, ah, Rodney had a scholarship to Transylvania, one of the best schools here in the state, you know. Delores went to Eastern and UK. And 61:00Ernest went to Eastern. Terry finished high school and I sent him over there to finish up his grades in English. And he wouldn’t act right, so I brought him back home. Wilbur, the baby, I sent him to K-State (Kentucky State) for five years. So, they just got to stay in school. And not just be there, but be there, they got to learn! Be obedient to the teachers and just don’t go there to be there but be there not just because your parents are sending you but go there to learn.

J. Blythe:. . ..Allyse is a senior and Stacey is a sophomore.

C. Dunn: You are? Well, you look like you’re just about in the seventh or eighth grade. . . What 62:00about that! And that’s just wonderful! And you’re a senior?

A. Taylor: Yes sir, a nursing major.

S. Roberts: Well, Mr. Dunn, is there anything else you’d like to add about your life in Garrard County?

C. Dunn: Naw, naw. . . . .

J. Blythe: Well, you’ve told us some good things and we really appreciate you giving us the interview and we want to thank you for your time and your willingness to help us with our project.

C. Dunn: Thank you, but I didn’t really feel up to it. I was kind of tired and nervous. . .