Oral History Interview with Johnnie Doram

A. Taylor: Could you please tell us your full name, including your maiden name?

J. Doram: Johnnie Dunn Moss Doram. 1:00A. Taylor: So, when, and where were you born in Garrard County?

J. Doram: I was born right around the road, ah, October 23rd, 1934.

A. Taylor: Will you tell us about your family, for example your parents, grandparents, brothers, and sisters?

J. Doram: Ah, my mom was Annie Kay Tarrence Dunn. My dad was Arthur Dunn Sr. My. . . maternal grandmother was Emma, Emily Langford Tarrence and my. . . and her husband was Smith Tarrence. My father’s mother was Henrietta 2:00Dunn, and I don’t know who my grandfather on my father’s side was. Oh, and you want to know about my siblings. I have a brother, sorry, Arthur Dunn, Jr., he’s 89. I have a sister Dorothy Dunn Baugh (she spells the name BAUGH). She’s in, lives in Chicago. I have another sister Margaret Dunn Alcorn; she lives in Scottsdale, Arizona. And I have another sister Ruth Dunn Ford in Chicago.

A. Taylor: So, there were five children? So, what was it like, five children just growing up in your family?

J. Doram: You know, there is five years 3:00between the one next to me, I’m the youngest. So, you know I don’t have too much to say about that because they were all older and didn’t want to be bothered with me because I was too young. But I know that I adored my brother. He’s the oldest. I thought he was the most handsome wonderful person in the world, and I would fall over, off a cliff for him. And he still is a great, great fr. . .person. And we’re all still living and fairly healthy.

J. Blythe: The community of Boones Creek as we know it now, ah, was a little bit larger in your time. We refer to it as the “lower end of Boones Creek. And so, ah, did you all play around, I know. . up and down the creek…?

J. Doram: Oh yeah, we did, there were a lot, 4:00in fact, there were houses sitting right next to the road all up and down. . ., it’s almost deserted now, but there used to be a house just right across the creek here, that used to be .Aunt Rachel, Aunt Rachel Dunn’s. Everybody had children so it was lots and lots of people here and lots of people from the other end of Boones Creek that would come here, and the church was just packed on Sundays. And everybody was sort of related one way or the other. And in the fall when the farmers would get together, they would, say for instance, they were going to kill hogs for meat, they would all congregate together and everybody would bring their hogs to one place, so they had lots and lots of help 5:00in order to, you know, butcher their meat. That was one way they got together. And after they did it, they would all get together that evening. . . I remember when I was a little girl falling asleep, and what they used to do, for instance, there used to be a huge barn right out here, and they would be doing it up there (she is pointing). And they were making sorghum molasses at the same time, and they would get a big pot and everybody would throw in a chicken, or rabbit or whatever, and put all those vegetables; they used to call it burgoo or soup or stew or something like that and everybody would eat. That was interesting.

J. Blythe: Burgoo, that was something that Western Kentucky now talks a lot about, but this part of Kentucky also was familiar with burgoo. 6:00J. Doram: Um hum.

S. Roberts: Do you have any specific memories of your childhood, for example maybe holidays?

J. Doram: Well, we were so….well, we were very poor. But we didn’t know that we poor because everybody was poor at that time. But we didn’t celebrate a lot of holidays like they do now. Like Memorial Day, we didn’t celebrate. We celebrated the 4th of July . Uh, we didn’t celebrate Labor Day. We did not really celebrate too much Thanksgiving because Thanksgiving was during the time where they were stripping tobacco and hog-killing. . .and during that all that kind of stuff. So, when we were out of school, 7:00everybody joined in stripping tobacco. Christmas was always a big day. We didn’t get a lot of gifts, we each got one thing , but we always got Roman candles, I remember that Roman candles. We’d all go out on the front porch and light ‘em before daybreak in the morning because we’d stay up all night. And I remember once my dad was very innovative in his own way you know… somebody must have said, one of us must have said ‘there is no Santa Claus’. So, it had snowed, and my dad went outside and fixed it so that we could think that there was a Santa Claus. The next morning, he got us up and took us outside and said “look! you said there was no Santa Claus, look at the roof. “ And here is what we thought were the things of the sleigh, you know. He even put manure up there, for the deer, 8:00you know from the reindeer, whatever. So, he, you know had us really fixed up for Christmas that year.

J. Blythe: How about Easter? Did you celebrate Easter?

J. Doram: We celebrated Easter, yeah. Easter was always a big thing for us because that was the time when we could take off those long brown stockings, we had to wear all winter and we could put on socks. And uh, see the Monday after Easter was always a big thing for us because we would always go fishing. We called it “Easter Monday.” Are you going fishing Easter Monday?” That was fun. A lot of time it was too cold to fish!

S. Roberts: Do you like to fish?

J. Doram: Uh huh, yeah, we did. I used to beg my Mama , let me go swimming. When I was a little girl, we lived right up on the top of that hill.. . . “I wanna go swimming, I wanna go swimming, couldn’t swim”, but we did what you would call the mud crawl. We just laid 9:00in the water and would act like we were swimming. We used to walk down that very steep hill, can you imagine walking down that hill, and she would let me play in the water, … calling ourselves swimming, you know. She was afraid the snakes would get me. . .

J. Blythe: It worked.

J. Doram: Yeah, it did. It was fun.

J. Blythe: I recall quite a bit of playing in the creek, and wading. . .

J. Doram: Um hum. Yeah you, too… S. Roberts: So, what kind of activities were you involved in while growing up?

J. Doram: In school? Well, other than working on the farm, in school, we had 4-H , uh, you know, whatever they had. They didn’t have a lot because I went to a segregated school, and we weren’t offered a lot of the opportunities what the 10:00other school offered. So, we did whatever we could to , you know. We made up a lot of games because it wasn’t a very large school either.

S. Roberts: Could you please tell me more about the school?

J. Doram: The name of it was. . .well, the school here I went to first five years of schooling, was, I guess we called it the Boones Creek School, but they said we didn’t have enough students, so we had to go to Lancaster, to the Lancaster Colored School it was called. And we would walk all the way up to the highway and get the bus to take us to school. And then, ok that was the grammar school and high school together. And then when I got into high school, they changed the name of the school to Mason School after one of the old teachers . She was a music teacher, 11:00Miss Lillie Mason. And that’s where I graduated from high school from.

S. Roberts: And what year was that?

J. Doram: 1953.

S. Roberts: And so, you only went to Boones Creek School Elementary for five years. Do you recall anything about that school?

J. Doram: That school was a one-room school. It had a pot-bellied stove and we had to bring our lunch. And I remember they used to have what they would call them ah, . . .nurses that would come around and vaccinate children. And they would come to the school; there was no signing, mom and dad didn’t have to sign, you just got vaccinated, you know. And ah, I remember that. I remember at recess we would go out and play by the creek, and it would be real cold and the creek would be frozen and we would get on the creek and call ourselves ice skating. 12:00And I remember once the ice was kind of thin and I fell through, got wet, and the teacher made me sit in front of this pot-bellied stove ‘til I dried off. And then I remember ah, in the summertime or in the fall, well in the fall., because in the summertime we didn’t go to school, but in the fall, we would go out and sneak out. . and you had rock fences down there and we’d sneak out over on the other side of the rock fence, we’d sneak out and get dried-up grape vines and smoke ‘em. So, we always did som’ um , had som’um going on; mischievous stuff we got into.

S. Roberts: And you said you brought your lunch, what did you usually bring?

J. Doram: Well, um, I don’t remember what I always brought, 13:00to be very frank with you, but I remember once my Mama would always fix . .fried chicken, Boston crème pie and that stuff. ..we had good. . .my Mama cooked real good for us. But I remember one time my Mama fixed fried chicken, Boston Crème Pie. . .and I didn’t want that, so I had a cousin, Bobby (that would be your cousin too—comment to J. Blythe:) J. Blythe: Would that be Burdette Taylor? (Bobby Burdette Taylor) J. Doram: Yes. Her mother used to bake bread, homemade bread, loaves of bread. She had homemade bread with sandwich spread on it. So I gave her my fried chicken and Boston Crème Pie for that sandwich spread sandwich (she 14:00laughs) But that’s ah, ; we always had good lunch. My mother always fixed good food for us. And then sometimes I would sneak off and go to my grandmother’s who lived right up from the school. She would always have brown beans and hot water cornbread. (She then shows us photos of Emily Tarrance, her grandmother). And this is my grandma right there.. . . . Emily Tarrence. . .She had hair your color (pointed to Stacey Roberts-light brown hair) and gray eyes, was very pretty.

J. Blythe: And that would be Emily Tarrence. . .

Researchers: She was a pretty woman.

J. Blythe: When did she pass away?

J. Doram: I don’t know; I was 14 I think, so whatever year that was. . . It was just before her 80th birthday, a week before her 80th birthday.

J. Blythe: Do you remember any of the teachers at the Boones Creek School?

J. Doram: Margaret Burdette. Her name was Margaret Burdette. 15:00J. Blythe: Mr. Herbert Burdette’s wife?

J. Doram: Right , right, right. Were they related to you all (question directed to J. Blythe:)?

J. Blythe: I don’t believe they ever claimed kin. I don’t think so, different set. Ah, anybody else beside Mrs. Burdette?

J. Doram: She’s the only one I remember.

J. Blythe: How about at the Lancaster Colored School?

J. Doram: Oh, the first teacher I had was um. . .what was the lady’s name that had the one arm?

J. Blythe: Mrs. Sarah Dabney Evans? I knew her as Mrs. Evans. . .

J. Doram: Uh huh. Yeah, well she was Miss Williams to us; she hadn’t married at that time. And then we had, ah, what was that lady’s name? . .. Miss Mason, Lillie Mason. 16:00. . .uh, hum, I can’t even remember these people’s names. . .We had Mr. Fields, he was from Stanford. There was another man teacher, I can’t think of his name now. . . hum, I can’t remember.

J. Blythe: Those were good names. Do you remember anything in particular about Miss Lillie?

J. Doram: Miss Lillie was sweet, very nice. And we took advantage of her. She was very nice. She would sing and have us singing, you know, and she would plunk, plunk with the piano and whatever. She taught us all music, tried to teach us music. And in her latter days before she retired, she was ill, and she would sit up and doze. Kids would cut up something terrible because she had three grades in her room see, six, seventh, and eighth grade. So, there 17:00was a bunch of us and so you can imagine those kids, what we did, stuff that I can’t talk about (she chuckles).

J. Blythe: You mentioned that because of the low enrollment at Boones Creek that you all then moved into the Lancaster, but about how many children were at the Boones Creek School?

J. Doram: Well, there were Kay Frances, A. Della, Pearly Jane, me, Mickie, Gene Dunn , uh, about 8, 8 or 9, yeah.

J. Blythe: We’ve heard a lot, and individuals have told us a lot, and 18:00we’ve read just a little bit about the one-room schools throughout the county but this kind of helps us to have a clearer picture of the schools and so that’s really helpful.

J. Doram: Mrs. Allensworth.

J. Blythe: Was that Dorothy?

J. Doram: Uh huh.

J. Blythe: Do you remember Mr. Carl Burnside? Was he around then?

J. Doram: That was before me. Uh, Mr., oh, what was that man’s name….he was such a handsome man. . .He was principal of the school when I first started up there, when I was in fifth grade. Ah, ah, he was from Camp Nelson, but he lived in. . .I can’t think of his name right now… J. Blythe: Some of the names we’ve been told were Payne. .

J. Doram: That’s him, Mr. Payne. . .

J. Blythe: Charles Payne?

J. Doram: Charles Payne. 19:00J. Blythe: I remember my parents talking about him and reading about him. But he was from Camp Nelson, but came over?

J. Doram: Right, right, right.

S. Roberts: You mentioned earlier that because you went to a segregated school you didn’t have many opportunities. Could you tell us a little bit more about your life during segregation and then later on during integration?

J. Doram: Ah, you know, I don’t remember too much about segregation because it was just a way of life. You know, things we didn’t do. You know, you didn’t go, you couldn’t sit at the counter at the drugstore , you just didn’t even go, didn’t even think about it, didn’t go. We sat in the balcony of the movie theater. Everybody just went to the balcony; we didn’t rock the boat; we didn’t push it. I became more aware of segregation 20:00when I left here after I graduated from high school and went to Chicago.

J. Blythe: Can you share any of your experiences there in terms of just segregation , but also with integration there and your work?

J. Doram: Well, everybody told me there was no separate anything in Chicago at that time, but it was! I remember going to a department store to buy a pair of hose, waiting to be waited on and everybody came and got waited on, but me. And it took me about a half an hour to realize what was going on because it never happened to me before; it didn’t happen down here, when I went to buy something at a store I got it. But there, they didn’t. And that was the first time that I was really aware of how things were and what was going on.

S. Roberts: Around what year was that?

J. Doram: About 1954 or something like that. 21:00When I went there to go to school, the reason why I say we didn’t have many opportunities, we never saw a chemistry book, or an anatomy book or anything; we were taught farming, agriculture, and that type of thing. And when I went to Chicago and started in medical technology school, the chemistry book was just really like a foreign language to me. I was really left out. What happened I had a lot of nice students with me, a lot of them were more advanced, when I say more advanced, I mean that they were older. I had one good friend who had already graduated from college, and she started to take this. She came from North Carolina to Chicago because she couldn’t go to school down there to take medical technology down there because of the segregation. So, we got to be friends and she kind of helped me study and get through the chemistry and anatomy 22:00and whatever.

J. Blythe: So how long were you at the medical technology school?

J. Doram: Two years, um hum.

J. Blythe: And how long have you worked as a medical technician? You knew I was going to ask that.

J. Doram: Let’s see, Sherry is 54, for 53 years.

J. Blythe: In Chicago and Kentucky?

J. Doram:Ah, thirty-two years in Chicago. . .no, longer than that in Chicago, and ten years here.

J. Blythe: And when you say here, where?

J. Doram: Ephraim McDowell Hospital in Danville. Because I’ve been retired for a little while now.

J. Blythe: Do you do any part-time?

J. Doram: Here, in Danville I did part-time.

J. Blythe: What, . . .can you describe a little more about your life in Chicago? I know you have children. . .

J. Doram: Yeah, I have a son and a daughter, I got married and had son and a daughter. And ah, 23:00I worked at Mt. Sinai Hospital for two years in blood-banking. I went to St. George Hospital and worked another three years as a medical technologist. And I went to Jackson Park Hospital, and I worked 32 years, about five years in medical technology and the rest of it in nuclear medical technology. And that’s what I did when I came here, too, nuclear medicine.

S. Roberts: You said that you went to Chicago for school? Ah, did any of your other family members continue their education?

J. Doram: Yes, ah, ah, my sister Ruth, ah, became a cosmetologist, 24:00but she went to Western KY University, that was , it’s now called ah. . .no, that’s what it’s called now. It was called, oh I can’t think of the name of what it was called then, but it was also a segregated type situation. . . But she went there. . .

J. Blythe: Was it in Bowling Green or Madisonville?

J. Doram: No, it was in Paducah.

J. Blythe: Paducah. A lot of African Americans went to various schools in Western Kentucky during segregation, so she went to Paducah?

J. Doram: Yeah Paducah. She went to Chicago. .she and her husband went to Chicago. And then my oldest sister lived in Chicago, so that’s how I got to Chicago. 25:00S. Roberts: And what about your brothers?

J. Doram: My brother, he was a farmer; he stayed here. After World War II, he came back and stayed here.

S. Roberts: So, he was in the military?

J. Doram: Um hum, he was in the military, yeah.

S. Roberts: And he was drafted, correct?

J. Doram: No…, he volunteered.

S. Roberts: And what part of the military did he serve in?

J. Doram: He was in the infantry I guess; he was in the 92nd Division, so they were fighting.

J. Blythe: It would be Army infantry?

J. Doram: Yes.

S. Roberts: Did he travel anywhere with the Army?

J. Doram: Um hum, he went to Germany, Italy, all those places over there (she is getting and showing us pictures), 26:00he ah. Here’s a picture of my brother in uniform. Ah, . . . that’s he and his wife. Ah, .

J. Blythe: After he was discharged, he still worked with the military because he went back to Germany?

J. Doram: Yeah, he did. That’s my brother (she reveals another photograph). . . .Yeah, he did, he went back to Germany, and I have a picture of him when he went back to Germany. . . . .

S. Roberts: Is that you (in the photo)?

J. Doram: No, it’s one of my older sisters. . . . . . . . . . .(looking at more pictures). 27:00And then he worked for Avon for years, too, over there and. . .

J. Blythe: He farmed and worked for Avon, or as we call it, . . .Bluegrass Army. .

J. Doram: Yeah Depot, yeah.

A. Taylor: Did any of your other family go somewhere else besides Garrard County or leave Garrard County for any reason?

J. Doram: All of ‘em , but my brother.

A. Taylor: And now switching to church, can you just describe your involvement in church and the place of religion in your childhood?

J. Doram: Going to Sunday School every Sunday. Ah, trying to play the piano, singing in the choir. Going to Sunday School and there was nobody but me and one other person and we would sing and do our little prayer, and 28:00read the Sunday School lesson and whatever every Sunday. . .

S. Roberts: And what church did you attend?

J. Doram: Right down the road there. . . Boones Creek.

A. Taylor: And do you still go there?

J. Doram: Um hum, um hum.

S. Roberts: And did your parents take you to church?

J. Doram: No . . they didn’t have to, I loved to go to church because I was by myself up there. I just loved to go to church and see the people, all my cousins and whatever. I was by myself up there and I loved to see all my little cousins and everything. . .

A. Taylor: And how would you describe a typical Sunday service?

J. Doram: Boring. For a child it was boring. You know we didn’t really understand and whatever. We weren’t, like churches 29:00now, that explain a little more and involve the younger people . ., we weren’t really involved in it unless you were in the choir or in Sunday School and that’s why I say boring. . .Now we include everybody.

J. Blythe: And your father was a deacon of the church? And actually, one of the founding fathers of Pleasant Valley Baptist?

J. Doram: Yeah, my father and your grandfather. In fact, I’ve got the Church History in there.

J. Blythe: Would you share that with us? (she retrieves and gives us a copy of the church’s history). 30:00Thank you.

A. Taylor: Do you recall who the pastor was at that time?

J. Doram: Rev. R. L. Faulkner. In fact, he baptized me.

A. Taylor: How would you describe your baptism?

J. Doram: Ah, it was ok. They baptized me in the creek down here. And it was in October, it was cold. And I was just anxious for it to get over with because I was a little afraid, you know.

A. Taylor: Do you recall any other special services?

J. Doram: Oh yes, the first Sunday in September we had what we called our rally, and everybody 31:00looked forward to the rally because this is where you got to meet young people from other places, boyfriends, etc. etc. And we would eat, eat very well. I remember they used to kill a sheep and they would have mutton every rally Sunday. Mrs. Winnie Jackson would cook it. Uh hum, she would cook that mutton.

J. Blythe: I remember her… J. Doram: She would cook that mutton. .

A. Taylor: And do you recall any family names that would attend church regularly and these gatherings? Can you tell us some?

J. Doram: Ok, there were Rothwells (---ROTHWELLs), 32:00there were the Williams, the Burdettes, ah, two different sets of Williams, . . Pigg, Piggs (She spells the name---PIGGS), ah, um, Tarrence, I can’t remember anybody else right now, they were all related, just about.

A. Taylor: So, would you say that church members were close? 33:00J. Doram: Um hum. They were very close because just about everyone was related one way or the other , by marriage or whatever.

A. Taylor: I know we’ve talked about church related activities; do you recall other kinds of community gatherings that brought people together?

J. Doram: Only the hog killings. No, I don’t remember any other community gatherings. They didn’t have time; they were too busy planting tobacco and corn, and whatever. ..

A. Taylor: So, we have already talked about members of your family being involved in the military. So, it was your brother was the only one that was involved in the military?

J. Doram: Um hum. 34:00S. Roberts: Could you please tell us about the kind of work that your family members did in Garrard County?

J. Doram: Farm, that was the only thing we did because everyone left when they got old enough to leave, to go to school or whatever.

S. Roberts: So, you raised your own vegetables in the gardens, did you help with that a lot?

J. Doram: Not a lot but we were forced, you know. String beans, whatever, . .couldn’t wait until it got ripe to eat it.

J. Blythe: Did you learn how to preserve the food, can, and freeze and those kind of things?

J. Doram: I didn’t learn anything like that until I got up to be an adult and moved back here.

J. Blythe: So that’s why you can do that now.

J. Doram: Yeah, because it’s a recent thing; I didn’t 35:00want to have anything to do with the farm.

J. Blythe: What brought you back to Kentucky?

J. Doram: My Mom had a stroke, and she was in the nursing home and my dad was up there on that hill by himself. And I was driving from Chicago here every other week, and I decided to take early retirement and move. Because I wanted to be here to help my mom and make sure she was treated properly, and help take care of my dad, so I just came. And my dad had just recently bought this place, so I bought it from him and that’s that, I got stuck, I’m here.

A. Taylor: So, you would say that family is important to you?

J. Doram: Very, very.

A. Taylor: What are some things that your family owned that 36:00you would consider of value or anything that you value?

J. Doram: Well, my dad used to own a lot of, he did own a lot of land here. And when he died, we had to sell it because my brother was only one person, and he couldn’t take care of it all. And during that time, like now you can’t hire anybody to do any farming, taking care of property. . . So, we decided to sell it because all we were doing was paying taxes. So that’s what we did.

J. Blythe: Approximately, how many acres could you estimate that Mr. Arthur owned at any one time?

J. Doram: Well, let’s see. . . that place up there where they built those houses, that was 37 acres. Where Janet and Dan have was sev. ., no twenty. . .

J. Blythe: Seventy-five?

J. Doram: Maybe seventy-five,. . .yeah, you’re right. And that was 32 acres over there (she pointed to another area) so yes, quite a bit. 37:00A. Taylor: Anything else, it doesn’t have to be land, just that you value, your family value?

J. Doram: Oh yes, this dining room table, that china cabinet. These chairs: I really like these cane-bottomed chairs. And the chairs that we are sitting in, my mom bought these a long time ago, I don’t remember when she bought them. I know she paid $75 each for ‘em. And that picture, that wall-hanging there was my nephew’s. He died in 1993, June, And I’m really fond of that. 38:00Researchers: It’s really nice.

J. Doram: He was a musician.

J. Blythe: A very good musician.

J. Doram: Um hum he was.

J. Blythe: I know you’ve talked about a lot of important things that you were taught, could you identify important values and beliefs that you got from your family, that they promoted as you were growing up?

J. Doram: Yeah, honesty--- honesty and fairness. My Dad was a true believer in honesty and fairness. And he was a true believer in not getting into debt, no debts. Of course he had to get into debt sometimes doing it. . , but he would pay it off as soon as he could. He would do without in order to pay that debt off. He told me in his later years that they called him “cash Arthur”, his name was Arthur Dunn, 39:00pay everything with cash. He didn’t want any debt, anywhere.

S. Roberts: It’s the best way to do it.

J. Doram: Yeah, if you can. If you’re strong enough. It takes a strong, strong character to do that.

J. Blythe: We’ve done a lot of research, uh, in different parts of the county and we’ve encountered some names and we’re just trying to find out if anybody remembers any of these names of areas. We’ve found out about a school called the Coomer School. Have you heard of any school related to African Americans called the Coomer School?

J. Doram: No. I know some Coomers, but I don’t know anything about a Coomer School.

J. Blythe: How about communities like Point Leavell, Hackley, . . .

J. Doram: I’ve heard of them. 40:00J. Blythe: Lowell, Spaineytown, that one, John’s Bottom?

J. Doram: No, no.

J. Blythe: But you have heard of Point Leavell and Hackley, and Lowell?

J. Doram: Uh, Yeah, yeah.

J. Blythe: Now you’ve told us a little bit about your life in Chicago. . .what kinds of things have you done since returning to Kentucky? I know you’ve worked at Ephraim McDowell and you’re active in the church, and so forth. Any additional things that you’ve you done?

J. Doram: Nothing, I find this very boring here.

J. Blythe: Well, you’ve done remodeling.

J. Doram: Yes, I’ve done remodeling. I’ve remodeled this house. Other than that, I don’t do anything much.

J. Blythe: I know family visits. . .

J. Doram: Oh, yes, they do; they were all down here for Mother’s Day. . .

J. Blythe: Any particular hobbies, what are some of the hobbies and things you enjoy doing at this point in your life?

J. Doram: I like to crochet; I do crossword puzzles, 41:00watch game shows on television. I like to sew. . Don’t do it much anymore, but I like to sew.

J. Blythe: I remember that you used to sew quite a bit in years back, very talented.

J. Doram: Yeah, I did. Thank you.

J. Blythe: Based on your life experiences, what kind of advice would you offer to younger generations and to future generations?

J. Doram: Be ambitious. Set a goal and do your best to reach it. Go kicking and screaming and hollering until you get it done, until you reach your goal. Don’t let things 42:00stop you unless it’s something detrimental. Keep going, you can make it!

J. Blythe: Now I know you have two children, any grandchildren?

J. Doram: I have three, three girls and I have one great-grandson. My youngest granddaughter was just in a cotillion not too long ago. (She shows us pictures).

J. Blythe: And is everybody still in Chicago?

J. Doram: Yeah, yes.….and she’s going to a debate camp at Northwestern University for two weeks. She went last year and she’s going this year. She’ll be a junior 43:00in Harlem High School.

J. Blythe:And did your children attend college, school. . .?

J. Doram: Yeah, Sherry graduated from Elgin, no, Elmhurst College. You know my son died when he was 32; he was an electrician (we’re looking at pictures). And I have a nephew that’s an actor.

J. Blythe: That would be Dickie. . .ah, Mark.

J. Doram: Yes, Mark, yeah Dickie. And he’s also graduated from Morehouse in Finance. . .

J. Blythe: Ok, Financial Management?

J. Doram: Yes, 44:00and he moved to Chicago now, he’s with his mother. . Well, he moved to New York, because he was in the play. . . “Rent” . . . and he travelled all over the world in Rent. . .it was on Broadway for a while, and when that petered out, he stayed in New York, and then, he came back to Chicago when his dad got ill. And I’ve got a niece that’s a doctor, she’s a dentist.

J. Blythe: And where is she practicing?

J. Doram: In Chicago. And I have a niece who is a histocytologist ; she lives in Tampa.

J. Blythe: Is that Reshon?

J. Doram: Um hum. And Belinda she’s a histocytologist (??) in . . Southfield Michigan. And I have a nephew that’s an engineer, he’s in New Jersey now . . that’s Reshon’s son. . .and the doctor is Reshon’s daughter.

J. Doram: She’s got two very successful 45:00children. Yes, and his (her brother) daughter, Janet is the principal of Camp Dick School here.

J. Blythe: Stacey (Roberts) knows Janet, she was (a student) at Camp Dick.

J. Doram: OK. . .You look familiar. . .So, anyway, we have pretty fairly successful children.

J. Blythe: Anything else you would like to share with us, words of wisdom?

J. Doram: I don’t have any words of wisdom, honey. Just whatever, it was fun. 46:00It’s been fun.

A. Taylor: Any other thoughts about Garrard County for somebody that doesn’t know Garrard County?

J. Doram: Garrard County really needs a lot of help right now. We need a grocery store for one thing. We don’t have a grocery store here. we’ve got liquor stores and all that. You can get drunk, but you can’t eat. And I think that is a very, very, a negative for Garrard County. So, we need to think, you know, think about getting a grocery store and some things like that going on.

A. Taylor: It’s been a pleasure. . . and we just thank you for your time and your willingness to help us with your project. You gave us new information we can take with us.

J. Doram: I hope so, I hope so.

J. Blythe: We thank you very much and 47:00I want to thank you for the globe from the Boones Creek School. At this point we don’t have a museum. . .but that’s a vision. And anything that we can collect and keep that will foster the memories of the school and other things. .

J. Doram: And you know, I have some report cards somewhere I don’t know where they are, but I was going to give them to you for your museum.

J. Blythe: Well, when I come back to share the script with you, . . . . .I will be happy to take those.

J. Doram: Um hum.

J. Blythe: Mrs. Bernice Bess sent. . several things from Cincinnati. .

J. Doram: Yeah, yeah, how is she. . .. .?