Oral History Interview with Margaret Plattner

Partial Transcript: . . . I'm here with Margaret Plattner who's the Deputy Commissioner of the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner grew up in both Kentucky and Florida, since her father was involved in the horse racing industry. Plattner attended high school in northern Kentucky and graduated from Denison University with a BA in political science. Plattner says that she was from not from a military family, with only her uncle serving in the National Guard during the Vietnam War. Plattner explains that she wanted to join the Navy in part because she wanted to do something that was considered to be non-traditional for women and liked the ocean. Plattner also mentions that she thought being a veteran would be advantageous if she wanted to run for political office in the future.

Keywords: Deputy commissioners; Family; Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs; Northern Kentucky; Politics

Subjects: Ambition; Beaches; Childhood; Denison University; Diversity; Father; Florida; History; Horse racing; Kentuckians; Kentucky; Lexington (Ky.); Louisville (Ky.); Military; National security; Ocean; Political science; Politicians; Racetracks (Horse racing); Teenagers; Uncles; United States. National Guard; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Women; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Okay, actually I went to officer candidate in Newport, Rhode Island.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner attended officer candidate school at Newport, Rhode Island. Plattner's training lasted sixteen weeks and she found it difficult to adjust to the ultra-regimented structure of the Navy. Plattner struggled with following the orders of her superiors when it came to discipline and punishments. Plattner soon came to the conclusion that officers were, in her opinion, playing mind games and testing the limits of trainees. Plattner recalls that she was forced to clean the men's toilets with a toothbrush and stand out in the cold saluting officers. Plattner enjoyed living in Rhode Island and describes the Newport area is very scenic and historic. Plattner also mentions that female Naval officers were forced to prove themselves in a male-dominated field. Plattner says that her training group was very diverse, but most people were from rural areas.

Keywords: Celestial navigation; Female officers; Gilded Age; Military ranks; Naval warfare; OCS; Officer candidate school; Ships; Small towns

Subjects: Americans; Architecture; Basic training; Behavior; Chores; Cleanliness; Conservative; Courses and lectures; Discipline; Diversity; Men; Military; Narragansett Bay (R.I.); Newport (R.I.); Obedience; Parents; Physical fitness; Political science; Psychology; Punishment; Running; Rural; United States; United States Naval Academy; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Women; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: My assignment was in Washington D.C. at the National Defense University as a Special Events Coordinator.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner's first assignment out of officer candidate school was a special events coordinator position at National Defense University in Washington D.C. Plattner selected this position due to her desire to live in Washington D.C. rather than for the actual duties of the job. Plattner explains that the National Defense University served as a training ground for promising colonels and captains who had been identified as potential future admirals and generals. Plattner planned for events involving famous individuals such as Richard Nixon, Congressional Medal of Honor winner Jack H. Jacobs, and several Mexican generals. Plattner enjoyed making connections in her job and liked living in Washington D.C. because of her interest in history and politics.

Keywords: Academics; Captains; Colonels; Congressional Medal of Honor; Connections; Event planning; Jack H. Jacobs; Richard Nixon; Special events coordinators

Subjects: Admirals; Cooperation; Federal government; Generals; History; Intelligence; Mexico; Military; MSNBC; National Defense University; Speeches; Television; Training; United States. Air Force; United States. Army; United States. Marine Corps; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Washington (D.C.)

Partial Transcript: I became a--uh--intelligence analyst for the--uh--Navy Anti-Terrorist Alert Center.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner worked in Naval intelligence analyzing potential terrorism threats to Naval personnel stationed around the world. Plattner recalls that tensions were high between the U.S. and Libya when she worked there in the 1980s. Plattner worked with different intelligence gathering agencies in the federal government (such as the CIA and the State Department) to create threat assessments for Naval personnel and assets across different regions of the world. Plattner says that it was sometimes difficult to determine whether or not a threat was credible, citing the Iraq War as an example of when errors can be committed in terms of intelligence and foreign policy.

Keywords: Commanders; Foreign policy; Intelligence assessments; Muammar Gaddafi; Naval assets; Navy Anti-Terrorist Alert Center; Ships

Subjects: Americans; Federal government; Intelligence; Judgment; Lebanon; Libya; National security; Nineteen eighties; Pentagon (Va.); Public opinion; Terrorism; United States. Agency for International Development; United States. Central Intelligence Agnecy; United States. Department of State; United States. Navy; War on Terrorism, 2001-2009; Washington (D.C.); Women veterans; World politics

Partial Transcript: You know, you start to pick up on I think this is a valid threat or not. And I'll give you an example, when Colin Powell went before the United Nations back in . . . 2002 . . .

Segment Synopsis: Plattner believes that the invasion of Iraq was not justified based on the intelligence information available at the time. In Plattner's view, key figures in the Bush administration such as Colin Powell misled the American public into thinking that U.S. national security was under threat, but in reality, intelligence at the time only pointed to anti-American conversations by Sadam Husein and other Iraqi government officials. Conversely, Plattner believes that the invasion of Afghanistan was justified because intelligence reports at the time had found direct links between the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Plattner says that the intelligence community was in essence forced to follow President Bush's orders when it came to invading Iraq and that she utilized her intelligence background to determine that going to war with Iraq was not the best course of action.

Keywords: Afghanistan War; Al-Qaeda & jihadi movements world wide; Colin Powell; Foreign policy; George W. Bush; Sadam Husein

Subjects: Afghanistan; Americans; Anti-Americanism; Intelligence; Iraq; Iraq War, 2003-2011; National security; Public opinion; Taliban; Terrorism; United States; United States. Navy; War on Terrorism, 2001-2009; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Okay. What would be some examples of--um--situations that you were in whenever you were part of the--um--intelligence . . . team that maybe were vague or hard decisions for you to make?

Segment Synopsis: After serving on the Watch Team for one year, Plattner became an Intelligence Analyst for the African continent. Plattner recalls that most of the higher level terrorist threats were concentrated in north Africa, especially in Libya. Plattner remembers one potential threat to the Port of Mombasa in Kenya, which involved individuals who had links to terrorist groups in northern Africa. Plattner explains that threat levels towards Naval personnel differed from high to low, with high-level threats typically coming from groups that had a history of attacking U.S. interests. While working as an intelligence analyst, Plattner recalls that after a German nightclub bombing perpetrated by a group with links to Libya killed several American sailors, the U.S. responded by invading Tripoli. Plattner says that the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli was accidentally bombed and that the intelligence community used photographs to identify buildings that were damaged at this time (in the late 1980s). Plattner was also working as an intelligence analyst when Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by two Libyan nationals. Plattner adds that some intelligence pictures that showed grewsome incidents were not released to the general American public.

Keywords: Active duty; Intelligence analysts; Muammar Gaddafi; Naval assets; Navy Anti-Terrorist Alert Center; Northern Africa; Threat assessments; U.S. Embassy in Tripoli

Subjects: Africa; Death; Federal government; Germany; Hijacking of aircraft; Intelligence; Kenya; Lebanon; Libya; Middle East; Mombasa (Kenya); National security; Pan Am Flight 103 Bombing Incident, 1988; Port of Mombasa; Sailors; Soldiers; Terrorism; Threats; Tripoli (Libya); United States. Agency for International Development; United States. Central Intelligence Agency; United States. Department of State; United States. Navy; Violence; Washington (D.C.); Women veterans

Partial Transcript: But all the different agencies, CIA and State and the Pentagon, they're all very different organizations, they have very different views from one another and it was interesting to see that.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner says that the State Department focuses more on diplomacy than the Pentagon in terms of intelligence gathering tactics and strategies. Plattner states that she did not like the State Department's overreliance on diplomacy. Plattner recalls that she was so impressed with how smart and sharp CIA agents were that she had considered applying to work for the CIA after the Navy, but thought that she would not know who to trust. Plattner worked with notorious Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard while at the Navy Anti-Terrorist Center. Plattner recalls that her commander was suspicious that Pollard was committing espionage. Pollard says that security cameras later provided evidence that Pollard was stealing top-secret classified information and sending it to Mossad (the Israeli government's intelligence gathering agency). Pollard remembers that there were attempts to pressure President Clinton to commute Pollard's life sentence for treason (since Israel is an American ally). Plattner adds that this scandal was a major incident in the intelligence community at the time.

Keywords: Bill Clinton; Classified information; Foreign policy; Jonathan Pollard

Subjects: Espionage; Federal government; Intelligence; Israel; Military; National security; Nineteen eighties; Pentagon (Va.); Spies; Treason; Trust; United States; United States. Central Intelligence Agency; United States. Department of State; United States. Navy; Washington (D.C.); Women veterans

Partial Transcript: But, I loved my four years in Washington and--um--I got to meet some great people . . .

Segment Synopsis: Through her work as an intelligence analyst, Plattner had the opportunity to meet several prominent people in politics and government, including L. Bruce Laingen and Petra Kelly. At National Defense University, Plattner appreciated the efforts of the university to invite speakers to the campus with diverse viewpoints. During her first year at the Navy Anti-Terrorist Alert Center, Plattner worked erratic shifts on the Watch Team, which analyzed real-time intelligence reports and threats to Naval personnel. When offered a chance to become an intelligence analyst for Africa, Plattner took the opportunity because she wanted to learn more about Africa and be able to work a more consistent schedule. Plattner says she has never been to Africa, but believes that most tourists visiting the continent are somewhat aware of the risks like she is.

Keywords: Art Buchwald; Foreign policy; Green Party (Germany); Intelligence analysts; Jack Jacobs; L. Bruce Laingen; Navy Anti-Terrorist Alert Center; Northern Africa; Petra Kelly; U.S. Embassy in Tehran

Subjects: Africa; Ambassadors; Federal government; Intelligence; Iran; Iran Hostage Crisis, 1979-1981; Journalists; National Defense University; National security; Politicians; United States. Navy; Washington (D.C.); Washington post; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: So you were in D.C. for four years--and what happened after that?

Segment Synopsis: After finishing her naval intelligence work, Plattner briefly returned to Kentucky and worked on Brereton Jones' lieutenant gubernatorial campaign. Plattner then moved to southern California and worked for a radio station before serving in the Naval Reserve at Santa Barbara. When the Persian Gulf War began, Plattner's unit was put onto active duty at the Port of Long Beach working with longshoremen and teamsters to ship cargo to the Middle East. Plattner also had the opportunity to travel to Japan on leave. Plattner describes her trip, which took place during the height of the Japanese economic boom in the late 1980s.

Keywords: Active duty; Brereton Jones; Cargo; Cherry blossoms; Longshoremen; Military sealift units

Subjects: Buddhist temples; Buildings; California; Culture; Economic development; International travel; Japan; Kentucky; Kyoto (Japan); Monterey (Calif.); Nineteen eighties; Okinawa Kaihatsuchō (Japan); Persian Gulf War, 1991; Political campaigns; Port of Long Beach; Santa Barbara (Calif.); Shinto shrines; Teamsters; Travel; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: When you were working in California . . . were there a lot of women that were doing that--?

Segment Synopsis: Plattner recalls that very few women were in the military when she enlisted in the 1980s. Plattner says that she felt the need to prove herself as a women in the Navy. Plattner was also cognizant of being a pioneer in a male-dominated field and she wanted to perform well so that her male colleagues would respect female personnel in the future. Despite these challenges, Plattner says that she enjoyed being in the Navy.

Keywords: Capabilities

Subjects: Discrimination; Men; Sexism; United States. Military; United States. Naval Reserve; Women; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: I stayed in California for three years and then I decided I wanted to go to law school, and the best way for me to go to law school was to come back to Kentucky and live at home and go to school, so that way I wouldn't go deeply into debt.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner decided to move back to Kentucky in order to attend law school for financial reasons. Plattner attended law school at Northern Kentucky University and got a job working at the state government for ten years. When a new governor came in with different political views than Plattner, she decided to switch over to the private sector and accepted a position at Planned Parenthood of Louisville. After a change in gubernatorial administrations in Frankfort, Plattner decided to return to state government. Plattner explains that she comes from a family that was interested in politics and public service, with her mother being an educator. Plattner believes that working in the public sector is a form of giving back to the community and contributing to society.

Keywords: Nonprofits; Planned Parenthood of Louisville; Private sector; Public sector

Subjects: California; Education, Higher; Frankfort (Ky.); Governors; History; Kentucky; Law schools; Lifestyles; Louisville (Ky.); Northern Kentucky University; Parents; Political parties; Political science; State governments; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy

Partial Transcript: When I came back here . . . I joined a unit in Lexington and then moved to a unit in Louisville because the Louisville unit . . . was more intel-oriented.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner joined a submarine activity monitoring unit in the Naval Reserves in Louisville, Kentucky. Plattner discusses the somewhat politically conservative nature of the military, despite it having diversity within its personnel. Plattner believes that the military has people from different sides of the political spectrum. Plattner adds that she is politically left wing and oftentimes her friends with the same political views are surprised that she served in the military. Plattner says that she respects the sacrifice that troops make when serving their country in the face of potential harm or death.

Keywords: Family; Kentucky. Department of Veterans Affairs; Politics

Subjects: Conservative; Danger; Death; Diversity; Intelligence; Latin America; Liberal; Louisville (Ky.); Military; Submarines; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Veterans; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Well, you're very intimate with that right now, I think, in the position you're at with the mortality of serving--.

Segment Synopsis: Plattner says that she sympathizes with families who have had a son or daughter killed in action. Plattner believes that wars should have concrete objectives instead of senseless conflicts based around geopolitical interests. Through her position at the VA, Plattner realized that government intelligence decisions have real consequences of life or death for many service members on the front lines. Plattner discusses the mental health problems and trauma that some veterans experience while re-entering society. Plattner believes that there is still a stigma around mental health in the military, but there is more acceptance today than ever before.

Keywords: Foreign policy; Kentucky Medal for Freedom; Kentucky. Department of Veterans Affairs; Naval intelligence

Subjects: Americans; Brother; Counseling; Death; Depression; Families; Intelligence; Judgment; Kentuckians; Kentucky; Law schools; Mass casualties; Mental health; Military; National security; Patriotism; Post traumatic stress disorder; Stigma (Social psychology); Suidice; United States; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Veterans; Women veterans; Youth

Partial Transcript: How does a group in Louisville monitor submarine . . .

Segment Synopsis: Plattner explains that her Naval Reserves work in Louisville consisted of meeting once a month and using intel from Washington D.C. to write threat assessment reports for American submarines stationed in Latin America. Plattner enjoyed her experience in the Navy because it challenged her political views and allowed her to look at the other side of the political spectrum differently. Plattner says that most people in the military are conservative, but she enjoyed talking about current events with her colleagues.

Keywords: Active duty; Democrats; Republicans; Threat assessments

Subjects: Conservative; Diversity; Intelligence; Latin America; Liberal; Louisville (Ky.); National security; Politicians; Submarines; Terrorism; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: So, what happens if your daughter gets older and wants to join the military, how do you feel?

Segment Synopsis: Plattner says that if her daughter became interested in joining the military, she would support her but at the same time encourage her to explore other options. Plattner recalls that her parents were not concerned about her joining the military and may have had an idealized conception of what serving in the Navy would actually be like. Plattner adds that some of her extended family did not think that joining the military was very feminine.

Keywords: Daughter; Women in the military

Subjects: Danger; Femininity; Parenting; Parents; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Women in combat; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: What were the options available for you as a woman when you joined the military?

Segment Synopsis: When Plattner joined the Navy in the 1980s, women were not allowed to serve in combat, which meant that women could not pilot submarines or aircraft. Plattner states that promotions and rankings are tied to combat duties in the Navy, which made it difficult for women to advance in their careers. Plattner believes that there is inequality present between the sexes in the Navy today despite women being allowed in combat. Plattner explains that physical fitness is sometimes still prioritized over intelligence, meaning that men are selected over women for certain combat roles. Plattner believes that since the Navy uses more technology to operate combat missions instead of on-the-ground operations, women are just as capable as men to serve in these roles. Plattner states that she would like for the Navy to select the best person for the job, regardless of sex. When starting out in the Navy, it bothered Plattner that women were excluded from certain tasks, which she felt implied that women were not capable of performing the duties of the role.

Keywords: Ships; Women in the military

Subjects: Airplanes; Equality; Gender; Intelligence; Men; Physical fitness; Sex; Submarines; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Women in combat; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: . . . Regardless of your military background, you've come a long way as a person in politics--um--in state government . . . I mean there's a lot of different roles you've played to--to be in this position?

Segment Synopsis: Plattner says that she was grateful for the opportunity to work in Washington D.C. with the naval intelligence unit. Plattner would like her daughter to choose whichever career path she wants to. Plattner believes that it takes a very strong person to join the military and have the ability to get through the mind games of basic training. Plattner got through her officer candidate school training by working hard and respecting the values of the military. Plattner also reminded herself that getting through these initial challenges was the only way for her to accomplish her goals in the Navy. Plattner acknowledges that the somewhat privileged upbringing she had was a liability for her in terms of getting through officer candidate school, but she was determined to complete her training. The interviewer discusses the importance of looking at the individual experiences of veterans instead of embracing the combat story stereotype of veterans. Plattner says that she enjoyed the military because she felt like she was a part of something bigger than herself as an individual. Plattner adds that she is not always supportive of the decisions that the military makes, but will always support veterans.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Daughter; Kentucky. Department of Veterans Affairs

Subjects: Basic training; Careers; Discipline; Men; Military; Parenting; Patriotism; Psychology; Survival; United States. Naval Reserve; United States. Navy; Values; Veterans; Women; Women veterans