Interview with Bertha Langford, August 21, 2009

Partial Transcript: Let's talk a little bit more about before the military. Talk about where you're from, your family life--um--your education?

Segment Synopsis: Langford was born in Louisville and was one of seven children. Langford graduated from Central High School in Louisville and decided to join the Reserves with her sister soon after. Langford was sent to basic training at Fort Jackson in South Carolina and also trained as a computer machine operator at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana. Langford says she and her sister were the first people from her family to serve in the military. Langford joined the Army during a volatile time, in 1975, when the Vietnam War was drawing to a close. Langford recalls that the Army had a bad reputation because of the Vietnam War during that time, but Langford decided to enlist in the Reserves out of a sense of obligation to serve her country. Langford also thought that her military service would pay off in the long run, considering benefits that veterans receive, such as the GI Bill.

Keywords: Basic training; Central High School (Louisville, Ky.); Computer machine operators; Fort Jackson (South Carolina); GI Bill

Subjects: Brothers; Computers; Draft registration; Fort Benjamin Harrison (Ind.); Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Men; Military; Mother; Patriotism; Reputation; Sexism; Siblings; Sister; South Carolina; United States; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Let's go forward to your--your training for the military.

Segment Synopsis: Langford and her sister had their basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Langford recalls the experience as intense and that her drill sergeant yelled at the recruits as soon as they arrived at camp. Langford says that the drill sergeants emphasized that all of the recruits were equal and that they were to be like a family in order to get through basic training (in terms of emotional support). Langford adds that women were not permitted to have their hair below their collars, in order to have their uniform insignia visible. Langford states that most women put their hair up in a pony tail to be compliant with this regulation.

Keywords: Drill sergeants; Fort Jackson (South Carolina); Rules

Subjects: Basic training; Emotions; Hair; Military; Sister; South Carolina; Training; Uniforms; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Women; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Well, you said that sergeant kind of gave you that declaration of like equality, like there's no Black, there's no white, but--um--did you experience any . . .

Segment Synopsis: Langford says that her training platoon was racially diverse, but there were still members of her platoon that were racist. Langford was in an all-female platoon, and sometimes had to fight to gain respect. Langford recalls that the training included both male and female recruits, except for combat situations, which were exclusively for men only. Langford remembers that women participated in military exercises such as convoys and simulations. Langford states that she learned how to drive a truck and a manual-transmission Jeep while in basic training.

Keywords: Cars; Combat situations; Driver's license; Driving; Fights; Fort Jackson (S.C.); Inequality; Latinos; Manual transmission; Night convoys; Platoons; Simulations; Whites

Subjects: Barracks; Basic training; Blacks; Cooperation; Discipline; Discrimination; Diversity; Jeep automobile; Learning; Marching; Men; Prejudice; Racism; Respect; Soldiers; South Carolina; Teaching; Trucks; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Walking; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: In my opinion, I don't think they appreciated women in the military . . .

Segment Synopsis: Langford says that in her experience, men did not appreciate women in the military when she served. Langford states that many people assumed that women would only be assigned to roles that were traditionally female. Langford emphasizes that she and the other female recruits did the same tasks as the men during basic training, and that many drill sergeants treated women harshly to test their limits. Langford recalls that her sister accidentally stepped out of formation on the way to breakfast and was forced to do push-ups in front of the other platoon members as a punishment. Langford criticized her drill sergeant for this punishment and was reprimanded herself for speaking out against these disciplinary actions given to her sister. Eventually, Langford was promoted to a platoon leader by her drill sergeant, since she exhibited leadership qualities by standing up to the drill sergeant. Langford treated her subordinates the same even though they were all women, which led to resentment from some platoon members. Langford says that men were treated very brutally during basic training, to the point that one recruit committed suicide. Langford explains that some drill sergeants were hard on the men to prepare them for the pressure and duress of combat situations.

Keywords: Drill sergeants; Field work; Platoons

Subjects: Abuse; Authority; Basic training; Brave; Cleaning; Discipline; Discrimination; Leaders; Leadership; Men; Mental health; Prejudice; Pressure; Punishment; Resentment; Respect; Sexism; Sister; Suicide; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Violence; War; Women; Women veterans; Work

Partial Transcript: Describe . . . the leadership in the Army.

Segment Synopsis: Langford recalls that many people assumed that the military was not the place for women. In basic training, Langford and the other women in her platoon underwent the same types of training exercises as the men, including shooting rifles, participating in simulations, convoys, and drills with tear gas.

Keywords: Drill sergeants; Guns; Obstacle courses; Simulations

Subjects: Basic training; Discrimination; Diversity; Excercises; Jogging; Prejudice; Sexism; Stereotypes (Social psychology); Tear gas; Trucks; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Women; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Oh, yeah, you mentioned that your--um--drill sergeant was--uh--homosexual.

Segment Synopsis: In Langford's experience, there were some LGBTQ women in her platoon, but recalls that they tended to keep to themselves. Langford says that the women in her platoon were not open about their sexuality, but LGBTQ individuals respected the boundaries of non-LGBTQ service members. Langford's sister became friends with a LGBTQ woman and taught her how to shoot a rifle left-handed.

Keywords: LGBTQ plus people; Separation

Subjects: Friendship; Gays; LGBTQ life; Nineteen seventies; Rifles; Sexuality; Sister; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves

Partial Transcript: . . . Did we talk about racism on this tape yet?

Segment Synopsis: Langford experienced discrimination because of her race in the military and was called racial slurs frequently, especially during basic training. Langford says she did not tell anyone of a higher rank about the discrimination she was experiencing, and took care of it herself in order to earn more respect from other platoon members. Langford states that an openly LGBTQ individual would have been forcibly removed from the Army if they were open about their sexuality. Langford also mentions that the women in her platoon were cognizant of abuses of power by commanding officers, who took advantage of women, prompting the platoon members to agree that no one was to walk alone at night. Langford believes that some men formed friendships with female army personnel out of necessity and tried to look past their prejudices.

Keywords: Blackmail; Commanders; Drill sergeants; LGBTQ people; Platoons; Racial slurs; Skin color; Verbal abuse

Subjects: African Americans; Authority; Basic training; Behavior; Blacks; Hierarchy; Nineteen seventies; Power; Prejudice; Protection; Racism; Respect; Safety; Sexism; Sexuality; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Women; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: I imagine you made a lot of friends.

Segment Synopsis: Langford made several lifelong friends from her time spent in the Army, including one woman who was also her sister's friend. Langford also became close to one of her drill sergeants from basic training, who treated her with respect when she visited him several years later. Langford came to the realization that basic training has many rules and regulations to make soldiers tough. Langford recalls that she had to keep her uniform tidy and always salute the flag. Langford says that these daily rituals made her a more organized person.

Keywords: Drill sergeants; Friends

Subjects: Authority; Basic training; Discipline; Friendship; men; Milwaukee (Wis.); Organization; Punishment; Respect; Salute; Sister; South Carolina; Uniforms; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves

Partial Transcript: . . . I guess you moved on to the reserves?

Segment Synopsis: Langford had her computer machine operator training for her job assignment at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana. Langford recalls that she had to come to work on her free time to save the payroll papers from being destroyed following a flooding issue at the building. Langford says she contracted pneumonia from her attempts to wade through the water and save important payroll paperwork. Upon completing her training, Langford worked as a computer machine operator at a Reserves base in Jeffersonville, Indiana. Langford worked to create inventories, organize data reels, and complete other administrative work relating to payrolls. Langford states that working on the personnel side of the military is similar to working a civilian job with a typical 9-5 schedule. As a computer operator, Langford realized the importance of computers for the future and tried to keep up with the latest technologies while working in the Reserves.

Keywords: Computer machine operators; Finance center

Subjects: Barracks; Business; Cleaning; Computers; Data; Floods; Fort Benjamin Harrison (Ind.); Health; Indiana; Inventories; Jeffersonville (Ind.); Military; Nineteen seventies; Payrolls; Pneumonia; Sick; Technology; Training; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Water; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Yeah, talk a little bit more about your time in the Reserves.

Segment Synopsis: While in the Reserves, Langford came to the conclusion that the male ego sometimes got in the way of accepting the contributions of women to the military. Langford believes that some men challenged the status and place of women in the military. Langford states that men and women are not in competition with each other and that women play many important support roles in the military. Langford says that the contributions of women to the military often have not been recognized, including key functions such as nurses, paratroopers, and mechanics. Langford adds that all women want to be included, regardless of color, and that women can bring a different perspective on issues compared to men.

Keywords: Combat situations; Inclusivity; Paratroopers; Queen Elizabeth II

Subjects: Competition; Ego; Equality; History; Jeffersonville (Ind.); Mechanics; Men; Military; Nurses; Pilots; Race; Stereotypes (Social psychology); United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; War; Women; Women veterans; World War II

Partial Transcript: Let's talk about--um--your active duty, going from Reserve to active duty.

Segment Synopsis: Upon beginning her active duty service, Langford and her sister had to re-do their basic training at Fort McCllelan, Alabama. Langford says that many tasks in the military which are automated today were once performed using manual labor. After completing her basic training, Langford was assigned to work the operations department at Fort Leonard Wood in rural Missouri. Langford was in charge of vehicle maintenance for the base's motor pool and sent memos to commanders. Langford was supposed to be transferred to a position as a driver for a general at West Point, but his wife objected to having a female driver. Langford provides her views on the Army personnel at West Point and comments on the racist and discriminatory views of many officers there. Langford heard from other women that male officers did not treat female officers with respect, and that many officers were not promoted concurrent with their educational experience or other qualifications.

Keywords: Active duty; Cars; Commanders; Drivers; Elitism; Manual labor; Memos; Mess halls; Motor pools; Paperwork; Rankings

Subjects: Alabama; Basic training; Discrimination; Education; Fort Bragg (Calif.); Fort Dix (N.J.); Fort Leonard Wood (Mo.); Fort McClellan (Ala.); Generals; Lifestyles; Maintenance; Mechanics; Men; Oil; Prejudice; Racism; Respect; Rifles; Rural; Sister; Technology; Tires; Trucks; United States Military Academy; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Upper class; West Point (N.Y.); Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Wow. So, you were on active duty for three years?

Segment Synopsis: After three years, Langford decided to leave the military, while her sister continued in the Reserves and was sent to serve in Germany. Langford explains that many women did not feel comfortable serving in Germany because of issues with safety and prostitution. Langford also felt that she may accidentally offend a commanding officer and be forcibly discharged from the military. In retrospect, Langford says that women were treated badly and discharged from the military for becoming pregnant and blamed for being sexually harassed. Langford also realized that drill sergeants were hard on recruits because they wanted to see how the recruits reacted under pressure to simulate the unpredictable nature of a combat situation.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Combat situation; Commissioned officers; Drill sergeants; Non-commissioned officers

Subjects: Discrimination; Germany; Military; Pregnancy; Prejudice; Pressure; Prostitution; Safety; Sexism; Sexual harassment; Sister; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; War; Women; Women veterans

Partial Transcript: Do you wanna talk about some of those awards or accolades or accomplishments?

Segment Synopsis: Langford received several awards and letters of appreciation for her work in streamlining the workflows and standard operating procedures at both Fort Leonard Wood and Jeffersonville, respectively.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Letters of appreciation; Paperwork; Protocols; SOPs

Subjects: Awards; Basic training; Change; Fort Leonard Wood (Mo.); Jeffersonville (Ind.); Letters; Military; Standard operating procedures (Allied Forces); United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Women veterans; Work

Partial Transcript: You mentioned that you had a son.

Segment Synopsis: Heart issues run in Langford's family, with two of her sisters dying of massive heart attacks in their twenties. Following the death of her older sister, Langford decided to give her mother custody of her son and go into the Army. Langford says her family later found out that her sister would have needed a heart transplant if she had survived the heart attack. Langford explains that her sister had a blood clot that had traveled to her heart, killing her. Langford also mentions that her father died of an aneurism.

Keywords: Cardiomyopathy; Daughter; Family; Heart attacks; Son

Subjects: Aneurysms; Blood; Blood--Coagulation; Brother; Children; Custody of children; Death; Father; Grandmothers; Health; Heart; Kentuckians; Kentucky; Louisville (Ky.); Mother; Sisters; United States. Army

Partial Transcript: Do you wanna share any other memories from the--um--military before we--we go on to post-military?

Segment Synopsis: Overall, Langford says she enjoyed her military service and it shaped her character significantly, despite the racism she experienced. After the military, Langford worked several factory jobs and then decided to start her own embroidery business making dresses. Langford explains that she has been interested in embroidery since her childhood, making clothes out of fabrics from her aunt to wear to school. Langford says that people respect her for having served in the military. Langford has been married for twenty-three years and has a son and a daughter and several grandchildren. Langford enjoys giving back to her community and teaching at-risk youth how to sew and encourages young girls to start their own small businesses.

Keywords: Ammunition Plants; Clothes; Daughter; Fabric; Small businesses; Son

Subjects: African Americans; Aunts; Blacks; Church; Community development; Discrimination; Embroidery; Entrepreneurs; Factories; Girls; Grandchildren; Indiana; Labor; Louisville (Ky.); Marriage; Racism; Respect; Sewing; Sewing machines; United States. Army; United States. Army--Reserves; Women veterans; Youth; Youth development

Partial Transcript: . . . Do you have any advice for people, especially women who are interested in joining?

Segment Synopsis: Langford says that women going into the military should be prepared to be a team player. Langford also states her military service shaped her character and caused her to complete tasks that she never thought she would undertake.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Team work

Subjects: Character; Cooperation; Military; United States. Army; Women