Oral History Interview with Alvin L. Martin

Diakov:Okay it is, Tuesday, November 27, 2007. This is Leanne Diakov and I am interviewing Alvin Layman Martin, who was born June 23, 1924 and served in World War II as a Technical Sergeant in the Army Air Forces, serving in the European Theater. We are back at St. Matthews United Methodist Church, here in Louisville, Kentucky and this is the second part of an interview that we began two weeks ago, on November 15, and we are picking up a little bit where we left off last time.

Diakov:Mr. Martin, you were telling me, I believe it was around August of 1944 1:00you had, you were in Italy, and then you were assigned to a general in France, and had gone to do some flights out of France, to assist that general, as the army pushed east through Europe. We have talked a little bit about some of your flights out of France, and as you went east, some flights out of Heidelberg, then we had kind of come to a point where you were talking about a flight you had made to England, to deliver some very important persons back to their home country, and the queen was there on the tarmac, at the airport. Could you just back up and tell me a little bit more about how that came about?

Martin:I didn’t usually get the briefings that the flight officers got—the pilot and copilot—so I didn’t know exactly what we were doing, but we went to Stuttgart and picked up two men 2:00and I later found out their names. Ambassador Winant…I heard, our ambassador to England…his son and then I think it was Queen Elizabeth’s nephew, they had been prisoners of war of the Germans, and they were released, and we were designated to fly them back to England, to their home country. So we did. I think it was in the morning, around 10 to 11 o’clock in the morning, and I forget the exact date, but we landed at Heathrow Airport in London and they didn’t have us taxi clear up to where the ramp was that held the people. We had to park a little ways away, and then they took our two men, they took them over in cars and 3:00I found out, and I saw that the Queen Mother was there, in that group, and I wanted to go over and meet her, or anyone else that I could, but my pilot said “No, we’re going back to France” [laughs]. So that was kind of disappointing but that was—I wish I would have had time to make more notes about it, and remember every detail that I could but I remember my pilot on the way into England asked me to get a hold of their RAF, the Royal Air Force and provide us an escort, since we had some VIPs aboard. Why I told my pilot, I said, “Sir, I’ve never been taught English radio procedure, and I don’t know how to get a hold of them.” And he was real disappointed with me. So I tried through my transmitter receiver to get a hold of any RAF base, or English people, and tried to tell them who I was, but I never could get anybody to answer me. If I’d gotten them on the receiver, I could have honed my transmitter into their frequency 4:00and talked to them, but I never could get anybody. So my pilot was real disappointed with me [laughs]. But I didn’t know their procedures. They weren’t like the radio procedures that I had studied. But that was one nice trip that we made, and you mentioned the trip to England. This was—I don’t remember if it was before that or after—but we spent, we went to Manchester England to get our plane worked on. It had an out-of-date electrical system and we went up there and were there about a week while they were fixing it. So we got to go to London, and I went not though, but I saw Westminster Abbey and Big Ben, and Piccadilly 5:00and we stayed in the Old Bailey Hotel, in the Night’s Bridge section of London, and this had to be in April, because we were there two nights or three nights—I forget—and the first night we were there, one of the German V-2’s came over, and I heard the sirens going off and nobody was moving. I said, “Isn’t that the air raid sirens?” They said, “Yes.” I said, “Aren’t we going to the basement or down into where the underground railroad is?” He said, “No, it doesn’t do any good.” He said, “V-2 penetrates way deep and then it goes off, so you just have to hope it’s not in your neighborhood.” So that thing hit, I don’t know how many blocks away, but it shook that building, Old Bailey Hotel, it shook it something awful. I never was so frightened, I guess. But anyway, it didn’t hit us; it didn’t hurt us.

Diakov:Did you see a lot of destruction in England, from the air raids?

Martin:Oh, in London, your 6:00heart had to go out to those English people. They just had rubble on top of rubble, and the Germans had bombed. It was pathetic, but they had the right attitude, and they stayed in there and toughed it out. I appreciated it. And after our trip taking the two prisoners of war, I think the next trip we made was again we flew to Stuttgart, and I didn’t know who we were picking up, but here came a man out that was dressed in civilian clothes. He had a hat and a long overcoat, with the coat turned up and the hat brimmed down, and I couldn’t recognize him. But for a civilian to get an army plane, I knew it meant something. 7:00So we found out—we flew into Munich—and I don’t know what his business was, but it was Henrich von Papen, the Reich Chancellor just before Hitler in the early 30’s. And I wish I could have known, and gotten his autograph, and got some more information, because that is….but anyway we took him to Munich, and then came back, and I think I mentioned some of the other trips we made while we were still in France.

Diakov:How as that getting into Munich, with someone like von Papen on board? Was this during the war, or was this after?

Martin:No, I think this was right after VE Day, not long after. VE day was May 8th, and I’m not clear on some of my dates during that period of time, because boy we went a lot of places and did a lot of things. 8:00But back before this time, I guess my most important trip that I ever took, and the one I’m most proud of, is on May 7th, I think we were in Vittel, France, we picked up a general—a four-star general and I later found out his name was General Gabriel de Lattre de Tassigny, and he was a French 4-star general, and we flew him to Berlin on May 7th, and landed at Tempelhof Airport, and he was to sign the peace treaty for France. And that was quite an experience, and they kind of discouraged us from using cameras, and I had one, but I got one picture out of the window of our plane, but I didn’t get any pictures of the personnel 9:00that I ran into. But we got there at about 10:30 on May 7th, in the morning, and they drove us through Berlin, the Russians did, and the Russians had women, traffic guards or traffic police. They were at every corner, and liked giggling. Like London, Berlin was just rubble. I was surprised that they even had enough room cleared in the streets that you could get through. But they took us to East Berlin, not on the [ ] street or what section, but they were going to billet us, or they did billeted us over there, and I don’t know where they took the officers to. But that afternoon we met in front of the—I don’t know which government building it was—it was pretty close to their…but that’s where I saw most all of the big shots there, the top military from each country. I 10:00know our general, the head of our air force—whole air force, General Spaatz, he was there. And I can’t think of his first name; seems like Albert, but I’m not sure. And then the head of England’s Air Force, Air Marshall Tedder, he was there, and General Tassigny that we flew up was there, and I’m trying to think….I think it was the top commanders of the Russian First and Second, White Russian Armies that was Conyev and Roskofsky, I think it was, they were the top Russian generals. And while standing on the sidewalk of the building out there, all of these people were talking, 11:00I think there was one other member, an American flight crew member besides myself there, and I don’t know whose plane he came off of, must have General Spaatz, but anyway we’re all standing there conversing, and I hear footsteps behind me. Pretty soon they got more prominent—they got louder, and I looked around and who’s about to almost walk into me, but General von Kiedel. He was about second or third under Hitler. And I got out of the way real quick [laughs] and there was a Russian solider behind him with a submachine gun in his hand. He was escorting—it was General Kiedel and a German Admiral named Fluetelberg, I think was the name. They were the two that were signing the treaty for Germany. 12:00I’d have like to have gotten some autographs.

Diakov:So did von Keidel sign it at gunpoint?

Martin:[Laughs] He was spic and span—had that gray uniform on, he looked really sharp. All those German officers’ uniforms were really sharp, and his boots, knee boots, all shined and was the epitome of a real soldier. I’d like to been able to talk to somebody like that—of course, I’d had to have an interpreter. But I’m just a twenty-year old then, I’m not [laughs]…. But anyway, that night they took us back to our villas, which weren’t very far away, and they were going to have a meeting that night, but I didn’t know if we were invited, the enlisted men. The officers would probably all go, 13:00but I knew what it was going to be—just a big drinking party with them Russians and their vodka, and I didn’t want none of that. But anyway, me and one other fellow—there was a fellow that was with me—we heard some singing down the street, and what little German we’d picked up, I could tell it wasn’t German, the singing. So we started walking down there, and we came up to a white picket fence around a house, and right over in the yard—it was kind of a small yard—was a circle of soldiers, and they were all singing. And we found out later they were Russian. But we walked up to the picket fence, and was listening to them, and when they noticed who we were, or noticed we were watching them, boy, they encircled us right quick. 14:00And I got frightened—I didn’t know what to…I tried to say American in every language I could think of [laughing]. Finally we got them to know that we were Americans. And they got real cordial; they invited us in, and offered us some cold cuts, and fish, and cheeses. They were real nice. When are glances met, all we could was just smile, we couldn’t say a word to each other [laughs]. And I showed, I had my 45 automatic pistol. I showed him my gun, the leader of their group, and then he showed me his Russian pistol and all, and we just smiled and keep going...so we finally got up and excused ourselves and went back to the billet, but the next day when the peace treaty was signed, they didn’t take us over again, the enlisted men. So I didn’t get to be in the hall where they signed it or not, but I would have loved to have been. So that was on the 8th, and then I think 15:00this was up toward noon, when the whole procedure went on. And then we took General Tassigny back to France in the early afternoon. It was about a three-hour flight, something like that, back to France. And then we moved, shortly after that, we moved from Vittel, France into Heidelberg, Germany. And I think I mentioned this—the big Heidelberg University is where our headquarters were. And I don’t remember… Diakov:I think you had mentioned that briefly and that there were other people there; I guess other famous people who were in the military were also at Heidelberg.

Martin:Yes.

Diakov:Tell me about that.

Martin:The group that I was assigned to was called 16:00the Sixth Army Group, and it was headquarters for the French First Army and also the American Seventh Army. And General Jacob L. Devers, Four-Star General, was Commanding General, and his Chief of Staff was Major General David G. Barr, and he was the officer that we flew for, his Chief of Staff. We had a C-53 cargo plane, a passenger type plane, and he was real good to us, and we flew—I think I told some things that happened after that earlier, that I forget how, which ones it was. But we flew different places to get things for the Officer’s Club or Officer’s Mess, and 17:00I think it was about the 8th or 9th, somewhere in that vicinity of August that we were told that we were told we were going home. And I was offered a job, that I wished I had taken a thousand times—I was offered to be the radio man on General Lucius Clay’s plane that was going to be the Governor, the Military Governor of Germany. And I’d have been gone for a couple of years, and I wanted to go home [laughs]. I didn’t ask them if they’d give me a furlough, and then I could have…but oh, I could have retired early and had a real job, but anyway we started home about the 9th. General Barr came out and bid us goodbye, and the Major General we flew for, and told us if he could ever help us, to let him know. And then 18:00we took off from, I guess Heidelberg, yeah…and we flew to Paris, and we landed. And then we flew from Paris; we went to Valley Wales, north of England a little bit. And the next day from there we flew to Iceland. And that was quite an experience. This was August, and it never got dark up there. You never knew when daylight and dark was supposed to be [laughs]. And we stayed on the…we were near, Reykjavík, the capital of Iceland, but we never got to go to town to see, and we were “weathered in,” what they call it, for ten days, we couldn’t go to Greenland from there, because of the weather. It was so unstable, but anyway, finally—well, before we left there, 19:00VJ Day occurred, and there was some celebration on the post there, and we didn’t just get with them very much in their celebrations, because we were anxious to get on out of there and get home. But then, I guess with that weather like it was, that foggy, damp weather, I caught cold in Iceland, and as we left Iceland to go to Greenland, I forget what height we were flying, seems to me about 10,000 feet, but when he started to let down to go into Greenland, if you’ve ever flown with a cold, you know your ears stop up, and they can really get painful. I had to go forward and ask that pilot to slow his descent, because it was hurting. I’ll never forget that. He was kind enough to do it; he slowed it down, the descent. And to look out those windows 20:00and see Greenland, with all that ice and snow, and everything, that was an experience. I wish I had the opportunity to see some of the places I’ve been. And then from Greenland—we were just there one night, I think—we flew to Goose Bay, Labrador. And I don’t remember anything there, because we were getting closer to home, and getting more anxious to see home. Then from Goose Bay, we flew into Bradley Field, Connecticut, and I forget what city that’s closest too, that Bradley Field, but I know there was 25 of 30 of us on that plane, something like that, and everyone of us, boy, when that door opened at Bradley Field, Connecticut, we were out kissing old Mother Earth. It was so good to see America. 21:00Oh my.

Diakov:And how long had you been gone? How long had it been since you had taken off from Florida?

Martin:March 15, in ’44, and this was about a year and half, something like that. Little better than a year and a half. I saw some beautiful country, different parts of the world…South America and Africa, Italy, and there’s a lot beautiful country over there, and there’s some that’s not very beautiful, that’s down in Africa. But Germany was the prettiest country I was in. That’s really a beautiful country. But from Bradley Field, Connecticut, the put us on trains. My train was headed for Indianapolis, Indiana, and I came through—we went through Boston, New York—we didn’t get off, we just looked at the sights as we went through it. Part of it was 22:00by night too, and then to Indianapolis, and changed trains, and went on into….I don’t know if I debarked from the train in Louisville, or if it went on south…I can’t remember. Seemed like I went on a bus from Louisville to Glasgow, my hometown.

Diakov:Did your family know you were coming? Had you sent word to them?

Martin:Yes. I forget where I was when I notified them, but they didn’t know the exact day and time. And I had to catch a ride home with a neighbor, from Glasgow. And that was quite a reunion. I was so glad to see my… Diakov:So you took a bus into Glasgow, and then just ran into a neighbor?

Martin:Yes, I don’t remember just how it was, but that neighbor was oh, so nice. And to see dear old Glasgow—that’s my beloved hometown, I love it. 23:00They gave me a 45-day furlough, and I stayed there and visited, and just had a good time and ate some good mother’s cooking.

Diakov:Well, let’s back up to your homecoming. Your neighbor took you home, driving up the drive, or down the road, who saw you first?

Martin:You know I can’t remember. I don’t remember if I got out and walked on up to the door, of if they were looking for me. That’s…my two sisters are younger than I, and I’m pretty sure they’re the first ones that met me. And then mother and dad. My youngest brother may have been there too, and all my older brothers, they were gone, living different places. But that was a wonderful moment—to see my home—as I had a wonderful family, dad and mother, sisters, all of them…brothers. I can’t remember—this person I rode home with 24:00was a lady that I used to ride to high school with when I was going to high school in ’38 and ’39. But I don’t know whether I just bumped into her accidentally when I got into Glasgow, or whether I knew where she worked. She’d always worked at just one store, and I don’t remember how I got in touch, but she’s the one that took me home. And from home, after the 45 days, I went to Houston, Texas to Ellington Field, and I don’t remember exactly how long, but it was November 3, 1945, they handed me my discharge, 25:00and about a hundred dollars for a bus fare to get home. I had two of my five brothers, besides myself, that were—one was in the infantry in the Pacific, and then my older brother was in the Navy Seabees. He went into Iwo Jima, D+3. He went in there when it was still real hot. But that ended my career in the service, and when I think back over it, there’s a lot of places I’d like to see, and a lot of wonderful experiences.

Diakov:Do you remember where you were when you heard that the war was over, the war as far in Europe?

Martin:Yeah, I was in Vittel, France, 26:00that little resort town that [ ] headquarters outfit that I was assigned to, and….I can’t remember the exact dates again…but it was in Vittel when, and then in a few days or in a week or two or three, something like that, we moved into Germany. And my engineer and I—there were two of us enlisted men on the plane that we flew the general with—two enlisted men and then two officers, a pilot and co-pilot, and we were billeted right close to that big Heidelberg University, and it was interesting to see, and I think I mentioned earlier some of the people that were in that headquarters outfit, some of them from India, some from England, and a couple or three prominent—I think I mentioned 27:00the Vanderbilt man, he was a young fellow—but from a pretty prominent family, but I’m so glad for all of the people I met, and surprised at the reception that we got in Germany when we went in. We weren’t allowed to speak with them even when we first went there, but that didn’t stop us, and they treated us—or me at least, and a friend—they treated me real nice. Gave me a birthday party for my 20th party, and I’m still in contact with that family, that owned that building there. My two nieces—my oldest sister’s daughters—one 28:00of their husbands was in the Air Force after the war here, and he was stationed over there and two years ago, they went and met this family that I knew, and they treated my nieces real good—took them to lunch and coffee and tea—it was real nice.

Diakov:When did you reunite, or when did you find out what had happened to your original group, that you had flown with in Italy? They had become POW’s, right?

Martin:Yes, I didn’t start looking them up right away; in fact, it was ’74, the wife and I were on a vacation and we went to Arizona, and two of the people that were on my crew lived out that way—three 29:00of the people. So, I just thought, ‘Man, I want to see if I can find them,’ and sure enough I did, I found them. I said, “How would you guys like a reunion?” “Hey that would be great!” This was in ’74, and it was in ’75 before I found the rest of them. I had known what cities they were close to, or lived near, or in, while I was in combat with them, so I just called long distance information and asked for this person, and they’d give me their telephone number [laughs]. That’s a good way to locate people. And one had moved from Montana to California and I was a long time finding him, and someone helped me find him. And when I notified them all of July 4th and 5th, just four days from an anniversary that they were shot down, they thought it was a great idea. Right at the last, I thought my co-pilot from Philadelphia wasn’t 30:00going to get to make it, but he did, and there was eight of the ten of us made it. We made the WAVE television, and we made Lexington and Louisville paper, and Bowling Green paper and the Glasgow paper. I’ve got a picture of our crew that was in the paper when we were in Nebraska training earlier, but now, out of the ten of us, there’s only three of us still living. The two pilots, and myself, and I talked to my pilot in New York, just since I talked to you last, and he’s doing just fine. He was a real good B-24 pilot; we trusted him explicitly. He’s about 86 or 87 now, something like that now—two 31:00or three years older than we were. I was the youngest guy on the crew when I flew.

Diakov:Well before ’74, I guess you…did you know that they had made it back? Well, I found out they were all—I didn’t know where in Germany or in Poland or France, or where they were prisoners at, but I knew they’d all got out in parachutes, so that meant unless they got killed by the Germans, or had an accident or something, I knew they’d be living. But I didn’t know anything about how they got back, when they come back, and when they were released and then I didn’t start just shortly after I was discharged then started working—public work—I didn’t start getting in touch with them for a long time, until I went on this vacation in ’74, and I started trying to find them.

Diakov:Did they ever forgive you for not making that last flight with them [laughing]?

Martin:[Laughs]. I kind of left them room where they could kid me. I got one of them, he calls me “Sick Call Al” [laughing]. 32:00I said, “Well, I know when to stay with my friends, and when to leave,”[laughing] but that’s what kept me from being a prisoner with them, is going to the hospital that morning, that very morning. But they never do mention that, except in a kidding way, they’re very grateful. We used to have some good times together. And it’s wonderful the bonding that takes place, when you’re in that kind of environment, where you’re about to die sometimes, and when you’ve got friends around, boy that means an awful lot.

Diakov:Did you ever make that kind of bond with your crew when you were flying with the general out of France?

Martin:Not quite as much, no, because we were all doing different type of work, and 33:00we weren’t about to maybe get killed, unless we were in an accident or something. Yeah, I never got as close to them—our pilot, this one that got disappointed when I didn’t know my radio procedure, his whole crew didn’t like him too well [laughs]. He was a little on the conceited side. But anyway, we got along with him—we had to. And I think all of that crew is gone now; the last one to die was the co-pilot, and he lived in Pittsburgh, and his wife called me just two or three months ago, that he’d just passed away. And I can’t find the pilot, he used to be in Cleveland, but I heard he moved to Florida, and I can’t find him. But some wonderful experiences—I didn’t know what I was getting into, when I volunteered, but I knew like 34:00all the other guys in the country, we didn’t like it when people bombed our naval base over there.

Diakov:What did your…when you think back on your service, how did that…what kind of life lessons did you take from that that you used after the service?

Martin:I don’t know how I…. I don’t know how to explain it, exactly. I learned, I kind of grew up in a hurry, like a lot of other young men, because you didn’t just come up in civilian life and face the things that we faced, and you kind of grew up in a hurry, when you’re in a position where you might die. And of course, I had a good foundation in life from my mother and father; they were both Christians, and they taught us the right way and lived it before us, so I had a good foundation, 35:00but it was good to meet people like that. I met all different nationalities in the Army—the Polish, the Italians—people, all Americans, you know, but different nationalities. And that was a good experience to meet all the people that I’ve met. I love to meet people, because I learn from people. They have had other experiences in life that I’ve had, and I’ve learned from them, and I try to be—well, I wish I could speak publicly, but I can’t do it—I’m not an extemporaneous speaker, but I’ve had a 36:00lot of experiences in my life, and I’d like to…and my heart goes out to the young people today. They are just so neglected and left. I’d like to help young people, and I found out here a year ago, that our area here in Louisville is the highest teenage suicide rate in the country. That just is so disheartening. I was President of the 500-boy Little League in Fern Creek in ’72,’73, and’74, I think it was. Anyway, that is a joy to work with little young people and to try to lead them in the right way. I’ve had some of the boys step out in front of all the other coaches, and say, “I want to be on Mr. Martin’s team.” [Laughing]. That will humble you. 37:00So I love people, I love young people especially. I’ve got two, three grandchildren, I’ve got six in all, and three I don’t get to see. They’re grown adults now, and it’s kind of disheartening. They don’t live in the area, but one of my grandchildren, that I had never seen since he was two years old, and he is 32 now, came in from California, and I got to see him here a couple of weeks ago. We had a wonderful reunion. I can’t get him to move back to Kentucky [laughing].

Diakov:So it was nice that he visited.

Martin:Yes, it is.

Diakov:Well, I think I’ll end our interview here. Do you have anything else to add?

Martin:I don’t believe so. 38:00I probably will remember some things after I leave [laughing] but they’ll be back earlier.

Diakov:Well, thank you for sharing your story with us.

END OF INTERVIEW