Sarah Milligan: 00:01
Okay, this is, this is Sarah Milligan with the Kentucky Oral History Commission.
I'm in Mount Sterling today doing World War II interviews. Right now, I'm interviewing Clarence Crabtree about his World War II experience, and joining us today is his daughter, Martha Payne. Now my first question, Mr. Crabtree, is, when were you born?Clarence Crabtree 00:25
I was born March the 12th 1914.
Sarah Milligan 00:29
1914, you are 94 [chuckles] that's great. Um, where were you born?
Clarence Crabtree 00:35
I was born in Powell County, a place called Bowen, Kentucky.
Sarah Milligan 00:40
Bowen, Kentucky.
Clarence Crabtree 00:41
B-o-w-e-n. Powell County.
Sarah Milligan 00:43
Powell County. Now, what is it that you've done--post war, what is it you did as
an occupation?Clarence Crabtree 00:52
Well, I was helping my dad on the farm, and after I got out of elementary
school, I stayed out of school two years where we did not have a high school in the county, and so, I decided I was [chuckles] going to stay out and work. And after two years, I decided I needed to go to high school, and I got accepted to the Berea College. Their normal school. I was going to go there, and about the time I was getting ready to go, Powell County opened up and started the high school, and they did not have a bus, but we caught a ride from anybody that we could, and we walked about four miles, my sister and I, and then we rode with somebody that worked in Stanton, where the high school was. And he would go every day, we'd meet him there at the highway. That was the only pave road in the county.Sarah Milligan 02:12
So, you did go to Powell County High School.
Clarence Crabtree 02:14
And--.
Sarah Milligan 02:15
After all.
Clarence Crabtree 02:15
--After all, I went to Powell County High School. And shortly after we had
enrolled, I guess within a month, the person we were riding with had a wreck. Turned an old-- (??) model Ford and he turned it over near a little town called Rosslyn, between Bowen and Stanton, and none of us, luckily, my sister and I and two friends, there was four of us riding with this man, and he had a flat tire and went out of control and turned the car over, and one of my friends was under the car. We had [to] get some help to get the car all moved, turn it over, and he was--didn't have a scratch, none of us--.Sarah Milligan 03:13
None of you--.
Clarence Crabtree 03:13
--Were hurt but the word got around at school, and the board members decided
they needed to get a--buy new school bus. We didn't have a school bus, and that helped--.Sarah Milligan 03:29
Because of your accident.
Clarence Crabtree 03:31
Accident, yeah. The board to go ahead and buy a school bus.
Sarah Milligan 03:36
Well, that's fortunate that nobody was hurt, but lucky that they took the
advantage after that. So, you went to Powell County High School, so how old were you? Well, first of all, when did you--when did you join the--were you in the Army?Clarence Crabtree 03:49
I was in the Army Air Forces, and after--well, to make the long story short, I
went to Morehead for two years, after I got out of high school and qualified for a teachers certificate, and I got a job in a one-room school and taught there for two years, and then I got a job--I was moved into the central office. I got a promotion, really. I was director of student personnel. We called it the attendance officer then.Sarah Milligan 04:33
Where was the central office located. In Stanton?
Clarence Crabtree 04:36
In Stanton, in the courthouse. And so, that's what I was doing when I went in
service, and I had just bought a new car in June. Then Pearl Harbor came along and there's--four friends and I decided to enlist, right after Pearl Harbor. And so, I drove the five of us. We went through Fort Thomas, Kentucky. That was the closest place that we could enroll--enlist. And--Sarah Milligan 05:21
How far away was that from Stanton.
Clarence Crabtree 05:24
About 100 miles, it is near Cincinnati. Actually, across the river and a little
bit south of Cincinnati, and it was an old Army Air base, and they were real busy taking in the recruits. The four of us went and they wanted us to come back at a later date, and so, they gave us a date, come back January the 14th and be sworn in. In other words, complete your enlistment papers. So, we went back home and one of--my best friend out of that group of five of us, had applied for a job in a defense factory in Norwood, Ohio, near Cincinnati. They were making jeeps and military equipment, and so, he had applied for a job, and he didn't go with us. And when we went back the second time, just the four of us went and in the meantime, he checked his local draft board, and he got a deferment. So, they gave him a deferment for one year, and he decided not to go with the four of us to enlist on January 12th. And there's a little story there, we got separated. Each one of us went to a different desk, and there was a sergeant that took care of filling out the applications they were laying, and we got separated, and I had a choice of two places to go. I could go to Fort Wayne, Indiana, where they were opening up a new Army Air Base, or Biloxi, Mississippi, and it was a real[ly] cold day, and I decided I'd rather go to go to Mississippi.Martha Payne 07:42
[Laughs] I never knew that.
Clarence Crabtree 07:43
They had a base right on---right on the ocean there, Biloxi, Mississippi. And
the four of us got back together after we had been with the sergeant filling out her papers. And each one was asking, "where did you sign up for?" And all three of the others--buddies signed up for Fort Wayne.Sarah Milligan 08:10
Oh no!
Clarence Crabtree 08:11
And I signed up for Biloxi. So, I went back and found the sergeant that filled
out my papers and asked him to change it. That I had some buddies that were going to Fort Wayne. So, he changed it to Baer Field, Fort Wayne, Indiana. It’s a new Army air base. They were--in fact, they were just building new headquarters, and that's where I ended up working.Sarah Milligan 08:40
What were some of the feelings you experienced that made you want to immediately
go to the draft board?Clarence Crabtree 08:46
Well, we--we figured that all four of us were the right age to be drafted, and
we would have been, and we felt it'd be better to go ahead and enlist so, that's all we did. And so, we got all of our papers taken care of on January the 12th, and we were supposed to report the next day. Then to Union Station in Cincinnati, to go to Fort Wayne. So, we got the bus out of Powell County. Rode a Greyhound bus up there. All of us got a home train. The slow train took several hours to--it stopped at every little town between Cincinnati and Fort Wayne.Sarah Milligan 09:44
Did you pick up a lot of other people who had just enlisted on that train?
Clarence Crabtree 09:48
There were a few--several Army personnel. We had a good, long train trip.
Sarah Milligan 10:00
And you had to leave your brand-new car.
Clarence Crabtree 10:03
I had to leave my car at home, and I left it with my sister. She was a teacher.
Incidentally, I pretty well worn the tires off of it, the first six months [laughter] that I had it, and so you couldn't get tires during the war. All you could get was what we call retreads, and there was [were] places in---Fort Wayne that they made the retread tires. And I ended up having to buy some retreads. And I went through the rest of the war on retread tires. You're supposed to drive not more than 35 mile an hour.Sarah Milligan 10:53
You put retread tires on your car.
Clarence Crabtree 10:56
I retread tires on.
Martha Payne 10:57
Did you go back and get it?
Clarence Crabtree 10:58
And, well, I didn't go back and get it until--I wasn't allowed to have a car
while I was a private. After I got to be a non- commissioned officer, after I got to be a sergeant, I could have my own car.Sarah Milligan 11:16
Well, tell me about Fort Wayne. Let's back up. Where did--how was your
experience. When you got to Fort Wayne, what did you feel? Were you excited, were you nervous?Clarence Crabtree 11:25
No, not really, but we enjoyed Fort Wayne. It was a nice town, and the air base
was about five or six miles out, from Fort Wayne and I ended up having what we call a permanent pass. Anytime I was off duty, I could go into town. And--.Sarah Milligan 11:53
How did you get that?
Clarence Crabtree 11:56
There was a bus that ran out to the air base about every hour, so you'd catch a
bus into town and back.Sarah Milligan 12:07
Did everyone have a permanent pass?
Clarence Crabtree 12:09
No, just, just a few had the permanent pass.
Sarah Milligan 12:14
How did you get the permanent pass?
Clarence Crabtree 12:16
Well, I was working at the base headquarters, and I was--after--been there a few
months, I became a corporal, and I didn't get a permanent class till I got to be a sergeant--staff sergeant, and I was one of the few--in fact, I was the only one in the air barracks maybe about, I guess 30 or 40 men lived in the same barracks. Had bunks all the way down on each side, and they had about four rooms on the end, and they were the non-commissioned officers. So, I was able to live in one of the private rooms. And--.Sarah Milligan 13:05
How did you move up so fast? Was it--.
Clarence Crabtree 13:08
So--.
Sarah Milligan 13:08
--Because you came in with an education?
Clarence Crabtree 13:09
Well, of the group that I went in with, I was the only one that had had some
college and I had two years, a little more than two years of college, and that's what kept me from going overseas. I wanted to go, after we had our basic training, all four of us took our basic training there at Baer Field, and we were doing KP [kitchen police], guard duty, things like that, in our spare time and we were getting bored with it. And I had a chance to go to officer's school, and I could have gotten a commission, but I turned it down. I didn't want to leave my buddies. [chuckles] Within a couple of weeks after that, all three of them were shipped out, and they were sent to England, London, England, and I wanted to go. I went to the colonel, who was in charge of the base--base commander and tried to get on the list to go. He said, "we need you. We just opened up a new base headquarters. We need you here, what you're doing--we need--can't replace you right now." And so, I was in charge of all the files. Incidentally, we were writing orders on groups that run overseas. We were the 45th air base there, and then suddenly, they changed to be an overseas staging area, and they were processing groups that were scheduled to go overseas. And so, I was working in the base headquarters, and we were writing orders. Every group that came through had to have special orders, they called them. And we had, we did not have computers or even the printer back [in] those days. They didn't have them, and it was a very crude way that we had to write the orders. We had about three typists, girls from Fort Wayne that came out every day, and they-- they typed, they cut stencils. If you ever remember seeing those, and then we'd take those stencils and running them off on the mimeograph machine. That's the way we made our copies, and every group that came through, each person in the group had to have a copy of the orders. And every day, we were operating that mimeograph machine. And I had one boy that worked with me in the office. All he did was operate the mimeograph machine. His name was Paul Bonfetter (??), and he was real[ly] good at it. You had to, you had to put an--ink in the machine, and it was one of those that you turned, turn the crank, and it cranked out the copies.Sarah Milligan 16:53
Was it ever hard for you to be the one that--that processed a lot of those
orders? Did you ever see names you recognized, or?Clarence Crabtree 16:59
I can't recall ever seen anybody that---that I recognized. They were coming from
all over, different states. Groups were coming through. We had everything that we needed to process them and get them ready to go. We had a Quartermaster Corps there that provided the clothes that they would need and the equipment. Then, we had two large airplane hangars where the air mechanics checked out the planes and serviced them. And so, we had everything we needed to process the group, each group that came through.Sarah Milligan 17:45
So, on a--
Clarence Crabtree 17:45
Even though some of it was crude--.
Sarah Milligan 17:47
Yeah---
Clarence Crabtree 17:47
--We managed to.
Sarah Milligan 17:50
--Did they--did they choose the mimeograph machine coordinator because of his
name? Is that? How he got the job, the bone cutter?Clarence Crabtree 17:57
No, he, he was a civilian. He wasn't even a military person.
Sarah Milligan 18:02
I see.
Clarence Crabtree 18:03
But he lived outside the base. He lived somewhere in Fort Wayne. He came out
every day, and he was real[ly] good at--.Sarah Milligan 18:17
(??).
Clarence Crabtree 18:17
--I was in charge of it. I had to see that it was done, and mainly, I was in
charge of the complete files. We had to keep, I guess, eight or ten big file cabinets, and we had to keep track of everything that went through there. Every letter that came through, we had to have a copy of it.Sarah Milligan 18:42
So, on a typical day, what did you do? Can you remember like when you wake up
and you--go out and --and what is it you do?Clarence Crabtree 18:52
Well, we--we had regular hours. [clears throat] We'd wake up the--you'd hear the
bugle in the morning, called Reveille. We had to get up for that and go out and exercise before breakfast. And then, we'd have a--they---had had good--good food, good cooks. The mess sergeant that took care of the food. An about eight o'clock, you'd go to work. We had regular hours, from 8:00 to 5:00.Sarah Milligan 19:31
Did you keep up with your friends in London? The three, the three friends that--?
Clarence Crabtree 19:36
Well, somewhat I would hear they would--the people back home would get letters
from them and, through my family I would--indirectly, I would kind of keep track of them. And all three of them spent the rest of the time in service. Well, after the war was over overseas, and they all came back. Neither one of them, got hurt, didn't get a scratch.Sarah Milligan 20:07
Wow.
Clarence Crabtree 20:09
And but I wanted to back up a minute and tell you about the friend, best friend
of mine, that didn't go with us. He was drafted two years later.Sarah Milligan 20:23
What year would that be?
Clarence Crabtree 20:24
About 19---well, we went in in 1942, early '44 I'd say, but he took his training
at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and he trained to be a[n] operator--tank operator. And he was in the battle--got killed in the Battle of the Bulge.Martha Payne 20:52
Who was that, Daddy?
Clarence Crabtree 20:54
Isaac Rogers. In 19--December '44. It was one of the last battles that Germany
was involved in, and he got killed.Martha Payne 20:55
Oh, okay.
Sarah Milligan 21:07
So, he hadn't, he hadn't been in the military that long.
Clarence Crabtree 21:10
No.
Sarah Milligan 21:10
Just--
Clarence Crabtree 21:10
No, hadn't been in long and had he gone with us, he would probably come back
safely. See, the four of us did, and he was the only one that didn't, that remained, stayed there, and was drafted.Sarah Milligan 21:24
How did you find out about that?
Clarence Crabtree 21:26
I found out through a relative of mine that I worked with. Actually, my county
superintendent, that I worked very closely with, and when I was the director of pupil personnel, sent me a letter and was telling me about my best buddy getting killed.Sarah Milligan 21:52
Did you--did you receive much information about what was going on abroad and in
some of the battles abroad?Clarence Crabtree 22:00
Yes, of course, we kept up on the news. We had a--newspaper, had access to [a]
daily newspaper there, in the office every day.Sarah Milligan 22:11
But outside of, outside of the general media did, did you receive reports or
anything about--about specific battles or specific---.Clarence Crabtree 22:21
No. Not a whole lot, but we tried to keep up on current events, and I had my
present wife there in--after I'd been there, actually, October '42. I'd been there a little less than a year, and she came out, she was in the USO [United Service Organizations]. You know what that is? It's a service organization, and they would come out to entertain the soldiers, the army personnel, and we had a good band there, but every so often, they would schedule a dance. And the girls in this USO came out to the Army air base, every so often. And so, that's where I met my wife, at the dance. I cut in on her, she was dancing with somebody else. [chuckles]Sarah Milligan 22:22
--Movements. Did you know her before you cut in on her? [laughs]
Clarence Crabtree 23:32
No, I never knew her. Somehow, I managed to get her phone number, and I didn't
call her for about three weeks. I had; I was dating a girl back home too. So, I broke up with her, and then I called, I called her Rosemary, and she was surprised that I called back. And so, we dated the rest of the time I was in service. After I had gotten my---the car up there, I was able to go to town anytime I was off duty, just about. I was almost like a civilian working on the base, and but I had the car there and, like I say I bought some retread tires. The biggest problem was getting gas. See, I had a ration card. Had A card, they called them. I could only get about twenty gallons of gas a month. Maybe it was thirty but it--getting gas was a big problem. And my girlfriend's dad lived down on a farm, about six miles out from Fort Wayne, and he--I went out there--the first time I went out, I drove out there in the car, and she said--well, she said, "my boyfriend could use some gas." She said, her dad said, "do you suppose this tractor gas would work in--in his car?" I said, "I'm willing to give it a try." [laughter] So, he filled my car up with gas.Sarah Milligan 25:26
The first time you met him.
Clarence Crabtree 25:27
Yeah, the first time I met him.
Sarah Milligan 25:29
You must have made an impression on him.
Clarence Crabtree 25:31
I made a good impression, I guess, but I went on through the-- I was right
popular, because I had the only car [of] any of the guys in my barracks, and they'd catch a ride with me. About any time I was going into town, I had somebody that wanted to ride.Sarah Milligan 25:55
So, what did you do in your spare time? What did--what did you do when you went
into town?Clarence Crabtree 26:01
Actually, we, we visited a lot of beer joints, things like that. Entertainment places.
Sarah Milligan 26:09
Were there a lot of those in Fort Wayne?
Clarence Crabtree 26:10
There was a lot of them.
Sarah Milligan 26:11
A lot of servicemen--.
Clarence Crabtree 26:13
Yes.
Sarah Milligan 26:13
--Hanging out at them.
Clarence Crabtree 26:13
Hanging out, yeah.
Martha Payne 26:18
You went to Chicago too, a lot, didn't you, Daddy?
Clarence Crabtree 26:20
We went--I had a brother that was in the Navy. He was--he was going to school.
They sent him to school in Chicago, and we went up there, and actually Rosemary went with me, and we visited him in Chicago.Sarah Milligan 26:44
Then her dad was okay with--with you taking her to Chicago?
Clarence Crabtree 26:47
Yes, she was working in the town. She had--had a job in town. She worked--she'd
been to--through business college, and she was working for some book company.Sarah Milligan 27:00
How old were you when you went to Fort Wayne?
Clarence Crabtree 27:03
I was much older than average because I stayed out of school two years between
elementary school and high school one and stayed out one year after I got out of high school. Before I got a scholarship at Morehead. I was twenty-seven--.Sarah Milligan 27:23
That is.
Clarence Crabtree 27:24
When I went in.
Sarah Milligan 27:25
Would you have been drafted, do you think, at twenty-seven?
Clarence Crabtree 27:28
I would but they were, in fact, everybody had to register. I still have my
registration card. Everybody between 18 and --35 had to register with the draft board, and I would have eventually been drafted. I wouldn't have been one of the first because of my age, but I would have been drafted. So, I think I did the right thing by enlisting.Sarah Milligan 28:03
Well, it sounds like you had a good experience. I mean,--.
Clarence Crabtree 28:06
I did.
Sarah Milligan 28:06
--You--you served a purpose, but you also--.
Clarence Crabtree 28:10
And like to feel like I did something to help the war effort. Even though, when
I went in, I fully expected to go overseas and be engaged in combat.Sarah Milligan 28:27
Was that a scary thought?
Clarence Crabtree 28:29
Not really, at that time. After I had stayed there a while and all my buddies
left, I enjoyed being in Fort Wayne, and having the privilege of going to town when I wanted to and.Sarah Milligan 28:49
Being the most popular guy on campus, with a car. [chuckles]
Clarence Crabtree 28:53
Well, I wasn't that, but it was a good experience, and I felt that I did
contribute something to the war effort.Sarah Milligan 29:07
right--right. So, I'm trying to think, I wanted to ask a question, mainly for
your daughter about when you were courting, your wife, is that your mother?Martha Payne 29:16
Yes.
Clarence Crabtree 29:17
That's right, we had four children, and all of them are graduates of the
University of Kentucky.Sarah Milligan 29:24
So, you brought her back to Kentucky?
Clarence Crabtree 29:26
Right, we came back, and the first time I brought her back, of course, I was
still in service. And getting back with those retread tires, it was about [a] 300-mile trip to where my parents lived in Powell County, and it took us ten hours to drive from Fort Wayne to Powell County.Sarah Milligan 29:54
How?
Clarence Crabtree 29:55
On those--driving 35 mile[s] an hour. And made some stops, it was mostly at
night, and we had to stop and get coffee in order to stay awake. But--Sarah Milligan 30:07
Did she help you drive?
Clarence Crabtree 30:09
No, she--she didn't drive at that time.
Sarah Milligan 30:14
It's a long trip.
Clarence Crabtree 30:16
It was.
Sarah Milligan 30:17
So--tell me about when the war ended, do you remember that?
Clarence Crabtree 30:22
Yes, of course, first, Germany was defeated. VE Day came in May--May the eighth,
I believe, in 1945 and we felt like then that it was pretty well over, but Japan still held on. I think it was August, wasn't it? VJ Day, but that was a happy day for us.Sarah Milligan 30:55
Do you remember what, what some of the people were saying? Were there parades,
or were people just excited?Clarence Crabtree 31:01
They were just excited, and when they announced that the war was over, I went in
town that afternoon, after I got off work, and my wife--my girlfriend met the door, [chuckles] and said, "the war is over."Sarah Milligan 31:24
Is that how you found out?
Clarence Crabtree 31:25
--Yeah, and I didn't, I didn't know any of the details till I had talked to her.
She said, "they just announced that the war is over."Martha Payne 31:35
She heard it on the radio.
Clarence Crabtree 31:36
She heard it on the radio, and people were all around in town. They--they were
blowing their horns on the cars. Cars were blowing, ringing bells, and it was exciting time.Sarah Milligan 31:50
That's good. Did--how long did you stay in Fort Wayne after that?
Clarence Crabtree 31:54
I came home almost immediately, and I went back two weeks [later] and married my wife.
Sarah Milligan 32:03
In Fort Wayne?
Clarence Crabtree 32:04
In two weeks after, I [laughter] got out. I got out the 27th of November, '45
and got married December 15th, '45.32:17
1945, oh wow. And then had some baby boomer kids. [laughs]
Clarence Crabtree 32:24
So, we've been celebrating December 15th ever since. [laughter]
Sarah Milligan 32:31
Well, it's, it's a--strange when you think about it because it all started with
December 7th. You know that whole part of your life took you there.Clarence Crabtree 32:38
That's right.
Sarah Milligan 32:39
Because of December 7th.
Clarence Crabtree 32:40
And had I not gone to Fort Wayne--if I had gone about Biloxi, Mississippi, I'd
probably never have met my wife.Sarah Milligan 32:51
That's true. So, when you're--when you--went back to Powell County, I guess, is
that correct?Clarence Crabtree 32:57
Yes.
Sarah Milligan 32:57
Did your friends that were sent abroad--that enlisted with you did they come
back, too?Clarence Crabtree 33:03
All of them came back around the same time.
Sarah Milligan 33:07
Did you--
Clarence Crabtree 33:07
--Shortly after that.
Sarah Milligan 33:08
Did you spend a lot of time talking with them about their experiences too?
Clarence Crabtree 33:12
Yes, I had occasion to talk with them quite often. They--they lived for several
years after they got back, but they're all dead now.Sarah Milligan 33:23
Yeah. What did they think about you were the only one that stayed in the U.S.
Did they ever say?Clarence Crabtree 33:34
No, they--they knew that I wanted to go with them--but I thought that was a bit
of luck that all four of us came back.Sarah Milligan 33:45
Very.
Clarence Crabtree 33:45
Safe.
Sarah Milligan 33:48
Very, you don't hear that very often.
Clarence Crabtree 33:50
That's right.
Sarah Milligan 33:50
That's absolutely true. I think it--.
Clarence Crabtree 33:53
I enrolled, shortly after I came back, I enrolled at the University of Kentucky,
and I had some--a little more than two years [of] college. I'd taken two years before I started teaching in a one-room school, and I taught there two years, and then I would go back, the second semester, I'd go back, I'd go back to school or the one-room school was--only lasted seven months, at that time, and we had a chance to go back and go to school the second semester after the girls (??)Sarah Milligan 33:59
Yeah.
Clarence Crabtree 34:00
The one-room school was out, and so, I had a little more than two years of
college, and I enrolled in college and decided to major in agriculture because I had several agriculture classes and I---. It took me about three semesters, about a year and a half, to finish up at UK. Had a degree in agriculture, and I got a job immediately teaching--voag--vocational agriculture, down in Hardin County, and then, I had a chance to---after being there two years, a friend of mine that I was in Morehead with before I went into the service, was at Camargo. You ever hear of Camargo? It's in Montgomery County.Martha Payne 35:35
It's here, it's in this county.
Clarence Crabtree 35:37
And I said--
Sarah Milligan 35:38
What is it?
Clarence Crabtree 35:39
We need another teacher, incidentally--.
Martha Payne 35:42
It's a small community.
Clarence Crabtree 35:43
---All the high schools were taking care of the veterans. Everybody that wanted
to farm, had a chance to go back to school. And--.Sarah Milligan 35:56
If you were a veteran.
Clarence Crabtree 35:58
If you were a veteran, and they paid them to go to the county high school and
take a course in vocational agriculture. And we had over 100 veterans in Montgomery County at Camargo. It's the only school that had agriculture.Sarah Milligan 36:16
So, did you teach there?
Clarence Crabtree 36:17
And I taught. there. I started out teaching a class of veterans and one high
school class, and a guy by the name of Frank Buck was the head teacher, and he and I had been friends in Morehead before I went into the service. And he called me at Rineyville, little town in Hardin County, and we said, "we need another ag teacher." So, I was happy to go back--that's my adjoining county. I lived in Powell County.Sarah Milligan 36:53
So, have you been here ever since?
Clarence Crabtree 36:54
I've been here ever since. Came here in 1949 as an agriculture teacher, and
after I taught veterans one year, Frank Buck the head teacher, decided to go back and get his doctorate degree. And so, he went back to UK, and I became head teacher. And--and from there on, it's history.Sarah Milligan 37:26
That's such--it's such an interesting program that you ended up in. They were--.
Clarence Crabtree 37:30
Yes.
Sarah Milligan 37:31
--How did that work? Well, first of all, was it, was it comfortable for you to
be the one that were [was] teaching the veterans of the same war the-- information they needed to get essentially free land, is that correct? How did that program work, was it just in Montgomery County?Clarence Crabtree 37:48
It worked alright, but we had five teach--actually four at first, and then when
I became head teacher in the high school classes, we had to get another veteran teacher. So, we--had five teachers there, teaching veterans.Sarah Milligan 38:13
Do you think that a lot of--.
Clarence Crabtree 38:15
--They wouldn't let them have more than 25 per class and so--. --We had those
for--kept it for several years, till eventually they got their time in, and we ran out of--out of veterans, and Bill Pauly (??) was the one that stayed the longest.Sarah Milligan 38:22
Do you--.
Clarence Crabtree 38:38
You know---.
Martha Payne 38:39
Yeah, I know Bill.
Clarence Crabtree 38:39
--Bill Pauly. He stayed there till the problem was over.
Sarah Milligan 38:44
Did a lot of veterans move to Montgomery County because of that?
Clarence Crabtree 38:48
No, all counties had it.
Sarah Milligan 38:50
Oh.
Clarence Crabtree 38:50
All counties that had had veterans that wanted to farm, every county that had a
voag department, and I think about every county in the state had--had ag departments.Sarah Milligan 39:04
Yeah, that's interesting. So, what did you do, after all the veterans were
cycled through? Did you--you stayed on and taught--.Clarence Crabtree 39:12
I stayed on and taught agriculture.
Sarah Milligan 39:13
Agriculture.
Clarence Crabtree 39:15
Eventually, we--well, shall I tell him about--tell her about the Chenault--.
Martha Payne 39:23
Sure.
Clarence Crabtree 39:23
--Thing. An old gentleman that was a banker in Mount Sterling. He owned
something over 1,000-acre farm. Over in--his farm was in Bath County, [the] adjoining County, but he worked in Mount Sterling, and he made a lot of money in the stock market. And also, he made a lot of money--he had a lot of tobacco, had a big tobacco base, something over 100 acres, and he had about five farm tenants on his farm that raised the tobacco. They helped him make a lot of his money, and he put it in the stock market, and he made a lot--made a bundle of money. And before he died, he made a will, made two wills, made one to Montgomery County VoAg Department and one to Bath County. And each of us--each school got about $1.3 million.Sarah Milligan 39:42
Wow, when was that? Yeah.
Clarence Crabtree 40:40
For Ag facilities, and that was back in the 70s. It became available after
he--about 1974 and so, that money became available. It was for building facilities and buildings. Whatever was needed for a good agriculture program in each of those schools. He was so grateful for what the farmers had done for him. Helped him make that money in tobacco that he wanted to do something for the farmers, and so, that is still ongoing. We're still--and we weren't allowed to spend anything but the interest off of that money. And so, we were living off the interest and making improvements. And we've got new facilities, the new agriculture building, and incidentally, I switched to--my last few--five years, I taught horticulture. They built us two new, modern greenhouses, with some of that Chenault money. And so, I enjoyed them--my last five years, I guess, more than any other years [I was] teaching.Sarah Milligan 42:11
That's really fortunate. When did you retire?
Clarence Crabtree 42:14
I retired in 1980.
Sarah Milligan 42:17
1980. What have you been doing since?
Clarence Crabtree 42:22
Since then, I own two farms, and I've been farming part time, just enjoying life.
Sarah Milligan 42:32
That's great. Does your family help you farm?
Clarence Crabtree 42:35
Yes, like I say, I sent all four of them to University of Kentucky, and two of
them live here in the county. Martha is one of my best helpers. She did an awful--she and her son, her husband, Darren, do an awful lot for us. And the oldest son lives here--.Sarah Milligan 43:00
Yeah.
Clarence Crabtree 43:01
--In the county. Martha and Darren are interested in flowers and horticulture,
and that's--was what I was doing when I got out of teaching. They've helped me establish some perennial flower beds, put out new trees, all that. I just moved to a new home out in Silver Creek (??) August 1st, wouldn't it?Sarah Milligan 43:34
Looking back sitting at Fort Wayne in the 40s, could you imagine projecting your
life forward, that this is where you would be?Clarence Crabtree 43:41
No--no way.
Sarah Milligan 43:46
So interesting. It's---
Clarence Crabtree 43:49
But--we're still unpacking. [laughter] Yeah, moved in August. I still have an
unfinished basement. It's just a jam full of boxes which I haven't unpacked yet. And incidentally, Martha and I, we had an attic full of junk, I call it. And we worked for, how long?Martha Payne 44:13
We spent a week in the attic.
Clarence Crabtree 44:14
A week--.
Martha Payne 44:15
A week alone.
Clarence Crabtree 44:15
Just a week in the attic, and then in the garage--.
Sarah Milligan 44:18
That's a wonderful week.
Clarence Crabtree 44:19
--I built a new garage where I lived at that time, and we did not (??) the
garage. And we took about five pickup truck loads to the dump. [laughter] This junk. My wife I never threw anything away, and so--Martha Payne 44:38
We kept a lot of good stuff, Daddy. [laughter]
Clarence Crabtree 44:40
Martha's been one of the best helpers that you can imagine. She--and I got rid
of a lot of junk, didn't we?Martha Payne 44:50
But kept some good stuff, too.
Sarah Milligan 44:51
You need that?
Clarence Crabtree 44:52
Yeah--.
Sarah Milligan 44:52
Yeah, we all need a Martha---.
Clarence Crabtree 44:53
Yeah, there--.
Sarah Milligan 44:54
--To help us go (??).
Clarence Crabtree 44:55
Everybody needs a Martha, yeah. [laughter] Now we're enjoying--.
Sarah Milligan 44:59
Well--
Clarence Crabtree 45:00
--She and her husband are helping me a lot in landscaping.
Sarah Milligan 45:03
--I--that's great--that's great that you've---that you've fallen into those footsteps--
Martha Payne 45:08
Right.
Sarah Milligan 45:08
With that.
Martha Payne 45:08
Yeah.
Sarah Milligan 45:09
Do you have any questions that you want to ask your dad about?
Clarence Crabtree 45:13
She was on--incidentally, she built a new house out on her--one of my farms I
bought--bought this farm in '72. I only had sixteen acres. That's where I lived when my kids were growing up. In 1972, I bought this 127, acre farm, out on Highway 713. I call it Spencer Road, and Martha, after she got married, she lived in the old house. Had an old tenant house on they lived there for a while, and she and Darren built a new, modern home out there.Sarah Milligan 45:53
What do you farm--in your--on your farms?
Clarence Crabtree 45:56
Mostly beef cattle and--.
Sarah Milligan 45:58
Cattle farms.
Clarence Crabtree 45:58
--Of course, had tobacco. They had the tobacco buy out, and we don't raise
tobacco anymore.Sarah Milligan 46:06
Cow farm. Is there anything that you want to ask about?
Martha Payne 46:10
Oh, you know, Daddy, I think that they've called your generation the greatest
generation, because you've seen so much.Clarence Crabtree 46:18
Right.
Martha Payne 46:19
And, you know, I just think back on the memories that you and Mommy must have
had since, I mean, you--you remember when there wasn't electricity, or, you know, the first--.Clarence Crabtree 46:30
That's right.
Martha Payne 46:30
--Airplanes and whatever, and, and looking back on this whole century, I think
your generation is the best generation to have--.Clarence Crabtree 46:38
I think--.
Martha Payne 46:38
--Witnessed
Clarence Crabtree 46:38
(??).
Martha Payne 46:40
All that, you know--And I just wonder, what was the best time of this whole
century, for you? Or would there be a time that you would go back to or?Clarence Crabtree 46:53
Well, I wouldn't want to go back to some of those [chuckles] crude ways of
living like we had, without electricity. Well, I think, probably the last years, I've enjoyed most.Martha Payne 47:10
Your retirement years.
Clarence Crabtree 47:14
But I remember, like you say, I remember seeing my first airplane.
Sarah Milligan 47:20
Where were you?
Clarence Crabtree 47:21
I was going to school, in the one-room school. I was about the fourth or fifth
grade. I guess and the first plane that ever came over that we recognized.Sarah Milligan 47:36
Did you--.
Clarence Crabtree 47:36
Didn't know what an airplane was, and the teacher said, "that's an airplane." We
all went outside. She dismissed class to go outside and watch that first plane go.Sarah Milligan 47:50
Wow.
Clarence Crabtree 47:53
I remember my first ride in an automobile, didn't have a paved road through
Powell County, had--gravel. Well, it wasn't even gravel, it was a dirt road. And pople started buying these old T-Model Fords. We was [were] driving (??) and hunting, but I've seen a lot of changes, in my ninety-four years.Sarah Milligan 48:24
I would guess so--I would guess so. Do you expect any changes in the future? If
you could think all the things that you've witnessed changing, do you still see that you're going to witness more?Clarence Crabtree 48:39
Pardon, I didn't get that.
Sarah Milligan 48:40
Are you getting--do you feel like out of all the things you've witnessed, is
these huge changes, electricity, cars, planes? Can you imagine that there's anything that's going to happen that could top those?Clarence Crabtree 48:53
No, there probably will be, but there were some big changes,
48:57
Space travel. That's going to be next [chuckles], space travel.
Clarence Crabtree 49:05
Yes.
Sarah Milligan 49:09
Do you have anything else, Martha? That's a good question.
Martha Payne 49:13
Well, I just, I'm amazed my mom and dad, they're so rooted in the past, and they
have such good ideals, that they've taught us and that we've grown up with, but they even wanted to get a computer. So, you know, here we are. We've got a ninety-year-old, and he's going to be ninety-four next month, and--and they, they didn't want the world to pass them by, so they got a computer several years ago, and they get on the internet, and they know how to do all that stuff. So, I think it's really, really neat that they've--they're--Clarence Crabtree 49:42
199---
Martha Payne 49:42
--Like planted in the here and now, too.
Clarence Crabtree 49:48
[In] 1993, we got our first one, so it's been several years.
Sarah Milligan 49:52
1992.
Clarence Crabtree 49:53
We're on our second computer. [laughter]
Martha Payne 49:56
Not many ninety-four-year-olds can say that.
Clarence Crabtree 50:00
But my wife likes to invest. She's got some investments and she--we both enjoy
that. Print out our portfolio about every day or so. [laughter]Sarah Milligan 50:25
Well, it sounds like you've had a very good life.
Clarence Crabtree 50:28
I think we do right well, for our age. Incidentally, she's, she just turned 90.
I had a birthday January the 15th.Sarah Milligan 50:49
That's amazing. You've been married a very long time.
Clarence Crabtree 50:53
Sixty-two years.
Sarah Milligan 50:55
Sixty-two years.
50:57
And they still stay very active, and I think that's what keeps you and Mama
young. They still talk about what they're going to do when they get old, [laughter] and they--I mean they--they're active in their church. They go to the Historical Society meetings; you go to the Cattleman's meetings. You go to the teacher--retired teacher meetings--and they're just--their calendar is so full and booked--it's--it's just it's--Clarence Crabtree 51:18
I guess that's--.
Martha Payne 51:18
--Really fun to watch.
Clarence Crabtree 51:19
--That's what keeps us going, we try to stay active.
Sarah Milligan 51:24
It's amazing. I'm thinking back to you talking about meeting her in--at the
dance, you know the first day, you can still remember cutting in,Clarence Crabtree 51:33
Yes.
Sarah Milligan 51:35
62 years later, 63 years later. [laughs] That's amazing. Well, I'm really glad
that you came in today. I think that's--it's an interesting story.Clarence Crabtree 51:46
Well, I've enjoyed it.
Sarah Milligan 51:46
I'm glad--I'm glad I know that your daughter's glad too. I can see her smiling. [laughter]
Clarence Crabtree 51:51
And you're--what is your last name? You're Sarah--.
Sarah Milligan 51:53
Milligan.
Clarence Crabtree 51:54
Milligan. Sarah, it's been nice to meet you and---[tape cuts off].
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