Oral History Interview with Suzie Million & Benjamin Mapp

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“Stories From the Balcony”

Interviews about the Grand Theatre in Frankfort, Kentucky

Walking Interview on Video with

Camellia Suzie Million Tinsley

And

Benjamin Mapp

On Location at The Grand Theatre

Tape 1 – 2007OH02.40

Conducted by Joanna Hay

November 4th, 2010

This project has been supported by the Kentucky Oral History Commission

And Save The Grand Theatre, Inc.

The walk-around interview with Camellia Suzie Million Tinsley and Benjamin Mapp begins with both standing outside the entrance door of The Grand Theatre talking with Joanna Hay. It is daylight.

HAY: Ok. So, when you used to walk up to The Grand Theatre, what do you remember about what it was like out here? Outside when you’d walk up? Because it’s changed, of course, outside.

TINSLEY: There were no bricks. [Chuckle] I think this was Woolworth’s.

MAPP: Yeah. That was Woolworth’s.

HAY: Yeah.

MAPP: This was Penny’s right here. JC Penny’s and, of course, there was a Woolworth’s and then next door to that was…what was that five and dime store? It used to be…Woolworth’s was on that end and then there was another five and dime store here.

TINSLEY: I don’t know. I know Whitesell’s…

MAPP: And then, of course, Marcus has always been there. And that was Market House right there.

HAY: Ok.

TINSLEY: And then, the jewelry store.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: Was it Whitesell’s?

MAPP: Yeah. And, of course, Robert’s Jewelry Store was right up here.

TINSLEY: Yeah. Because we’d always have to…we’d always walk through the Old State Park.

MAPP: Yeah. We’d go through there.

TINSLEY: Come straight through.

HAY: So, you’d walk up St. Clair and then would buy your tickets at…?

TINSLEY: Around here.

MAPP: Right.

HAY: And then, the door…you’d go in…?

MAPP: Actually, it was like…the ticket office was like in the center. And then, of course, our door was like on this side here, and they had a stairway. You’d go straight up. Yep.

TINSLEY: You said Miss Wilson.

MAPP: Miss Wilson.

TINSLEY: Our teacher.

MAPP: Yeah, Miss Wilson.

TINSLEY: She used to have the kindergarten, or…daycare.

MAPP: Now, actually it was like…this door here was kind of set back and like this was the box office here. And then, of course, right here was our door that we would…

TINSLEY: Yeah.

MAPP: Do you remember, Suzie?

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: Ok. Alright. Well, let’s go in and then we’ll see what else has changed. Please. You go ahead. I’ll let you go first.

MAPP: Alright. Wow!

HAY: You can still see the staircase.

TINSLEY: Staircase…

MAPP: So they did away with the door that was over on the side.

HAY: So they turned…

MAPP: So they made a turn…I mean, they added this here. Because the door…you went up the steps that way from that direction.

HAY: That’s right.

MAPP: Yeah.

HAY: That’s right.

TINSLEY: Yeah. When I got in, I remembered. [Laughter]

HAY: I want to tell you before we go upstairs, when the renovation was done, this wall was exposed, and apparently this is from the 1910’s…from the original, original Grand Theatre when it was a little Vaudeville house.

TINSLEY: Oh.

HAY: When it was just a little shotgun theatre. And you can see the outline of the stair steps there, and the little balcony, and the little, silver motifs on the wall.

TINSLEY: Ok.

HAY: And so, it was just left. Just left as is as a sort of historic wall.

TINSLEY: And, they’re going to leave it like that?

HAY: Just like that.

TINSLEY: Ok. That’s beautiful.

HAY: And so, actually, why don’t we just head…why don’t we head upstairs. First, Jerry, do you want to go ahead? [Interruption] …been since you’ve been in here?

MAPP: Oh, it’s been forty years, at least, or more.

TINSLEY: If it’s been forty for him, it’s been fifty for me. [Laughter]

MAPP: I remember now. This seems very familiar.

HAY: Does this feel familiar?

MAPP: This here is very familiar. Going up these steps here as far as looking at the wall and all of that.

HAY: Uh hum.

MAPP: Of course, that was one of our pastimes as far as going to the movies because there wasn’t anything else to do.

TINSLEY: Yeah [..]

MAPP: Right. There was nothing else to do. My mother…she loved going to the movies.

HAY: Did she love coming to the movies?

MAPP: Right.

HAY: So you would come as a whole family?

MAPP: Yes.

HAY: Yeah?

MAPP: Yes, we would come as a whole family and, of course, Miss Wilson…she used to be right down in that little area where that little pillar is, right there.

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: Ok.

TINSLEY: With the candy.

MAPP: With the candy and the popcorn.

TINSLEY: I would always have enough for one bun, popcorn, and a soft drink.

MAPP: Right.

HAY: Everybody remembers Miss Wilson.

MAPP: Right.

HAY: With great enthusiasm.

MAPP: Oh yeah. She let you know she was here.

HAY: So, this was the one entrance and there was a ramp.

TINSLEY: Yes.

HAY: Ok. I thought we would just walk down. Is the other door open? Oh, we’ll go in this entrance then.

MAPP: Ok.

HAY: There are two entrances. Do you remember?

MAPP: I remember, yes.

TINSLEY: Because you’d come down…

MAPP: Right.

TINSLEY: Oh, yes! This is The Grand.

MAPP: Now, I remember this part because people used to sit up there…

TINSLEY: Is that where you used to sit?

MAPP: …and throw stuff down on people leaving and stuff like that.

HAY: Over that little edge?

MAPP: Uh hum.

TINSLEY: That was my favorite spot. Those first two seats.

MAPP: Oh, really?

TINSLEY: Right over here. Yeah. Because of the sound, you know.

HAY: Where was your favorite place to sit?

MAPP: Oh, I always liked to sit on the end. My mother was…she always liked this area. Of course, if we couldn’t get this area, we would be over on that side.

TINSLEY: You never liked to sit here because, you know, the light coming from the film.

MAPP: Yeah, you could hear it.

TINSLEY: Yeah. The reel rolling.

MAPP: Yeah. You could hear it. Yeah.

HAY: So there would actually be noise…you would hear the noise of the projector?

TINSLEY: You’d hear the noise.

MAPP: Right. You could hear it. Yeah.

HAY: And then, the beam would be…

TINSLEY: The light.

MAPP: Yeah. You could see the light going down through there.

HAY: Huh. I hadn’t really thought about that.

TINSLEY: Instead of just…you know, we’re seeing two green lights…this middle one here. That’s where the light would come from.

HAY: Ok.

TINSLEY: Uh hum. I remember that.

HAY: Could you reach up in the beam and like make shadow animals? Could people reach up in the beam and touch it?

TINSLEY: No, I don’t think they did that.

MAPP: No. In fact, I think the opening used to be up higher than there, and it was a smaller opening.

TINSLEY: You think it was?

MAPP: Yeah. I remember that.

TINSLEY: But, you know, I guess we wouldn’t have thought about doing anything like that.

MAPP: No.

TINSLEY: Because we would have been in trouble.

MAPP: Yeah, you would have. Because Miss Wilson…she would…she would make her rounds. She had a little flashlight and she would come up and walk the aisles and stuff, and tell people to behave and be quiet or quit running, or whatever.

TINSLEY: If you were sitting too close together…

MAPP: People would sit down there and throw stuff over. [Chuckle] She would get on them for that also.

HAY: She’d be watching for that?

MAPP: I always liked sitting down there, but my mother wouldn’t let us sit down there. Because I always wanted to see what was going on down there. Because I had never been down there, and I didn’t know what it was all about.

HAY: So, how old were you when you first came to The Grand, do you think?

MAPP: Oh, I was just a kid. A very small kid. I’d say at least…

TINSLEY: Eight…nine?

MAPP: No. I think probably younger. Five…six years old.

HAY: What about you? When do you think you first came?

TINSLEY: I think I was six years old and I remember Jackie Gleason. He had a partner. Remember his name?

HAY: And then, you’d come with your families when you were younger, and then what was it like in here when you were a teenager?

MAPP: Well, you know, like they used to have free shows. And, you would go to the grocery store and, you know, your parents would pick up these tickets for their kids, and they would have free shows during the summer break. And, it would last…

TINSLEY: On Saturday.

MAPP: It was during the week. It was during the week.

TINSLEY: Oh, really?

MAPP: Yeah. It was during the week. And, they would have morning sessions and I don’t know if they had afternoon sessions too? I can’t remember that, but I do remember that, you know, that they would play cartoons…just continuous cartoons.

TINSLEY: You know, the thing that I really remember is sitting and watching a movie two or three times without being told, “It’s time to leave.” Like now, they empty the theatre.

MAPP: Yeah. You could do that.

TINSLEY: After the first…[Chuckle]

0: 1:00 …-0: 2:00HAY: So, tell me what it felt like when you walked up here the first…just now. Did memories come back?

MAPP: Oh, I got flashbacks. Yeah. Of course, you know, this was the only place really for us to go really. They didn’t have…for a teenager, I mean you know, there wasn’t any other place to go really.

TINSLEY: And the steps…the carpet was black.

HAY: It was black?

TINSLEY: Uh hum. It was dark. Very dark.

MAPP: Yeah. I remember they had lights down at the end of the seats.

HAY: Oh, ok.

MAPP: Yeah. Do you remember that, Suzie?

TINSLEY: Yeah. And, didn’t they have lights on the steps?

MAPP: Or something. They had lights somewhere.

TINSLEY: I think it was on the steps.

MAPP: Was it on the steps?

TINSLEY: Yeah. They did have lights on the steps.

MAPP: I remember that. Yeah, I’m having flashbacks. [Chuckle] Because the first date I ever had was here.

HAY: Yeah?

TINSLEY: Well, the movie was a date.

HAY: Do you remember where you sat on that date?

MAPP: I remember being with some of my classmates and we all went…came to the movies as a date, you know, with our special date. And, we’d all sit together. And, it was like in this area here.

TINSLEY: My mother would send the boys…would send the brothers with us to keep us from that area.

HAY: Oh, your mother would send your brothers?

TINSLEY: Alfred. Yeah. Alfred would be following me.

HAY: To keep you from getting into any trouble.

MAPP: Yeah.

HAY: What were you going to say?

MAPP: Well, I was going to say that I remember as a teenager that on Sundays, the church…after church…the movies here were packed. If you didn’t get here early, it would be hard to find a seat.

TINSLEY: Yeah.

MAPP: And, that was every Sunday.

HAY: Every Sunday?

MAPP: Yeah. Do you remember that?

TINSLEY: Yeah. And then, there were conditions too. You had to be…would have had to have had good conduct during the week, and you would have to…it was something that was earned, you know. It was an earned entertainment. You had to do your chores.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: Good conduct during the week. Go to church…Sunday school…

MAPP: It was a treat, really wasn’t it?

TINSLEY: Yeah. And then, the movies.

HAY: And then, the movies. That would be your…and then how long would you stay on a Sunday?

MAPP: Oh, you know, you had curfews, but…

TINSLEY: You were out of here before it was dark.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: You were home before it was dark.

MAPP: But, back then, you know…you remember they used to have curfews where, you know, if you were less than a teenager, that you couldn’t be on the streets. Yeah.

HAY: After dark?

MAPP: After like eight-thirty…nine o’clock. Do you remember that?

TINSLEY: No, I don’t remember that. I just know that we had to be in.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: Before dark. Unless we were accompanied.

MAPP: Well, things were… [Chuckle]

TINSLEY: But, see you are a little younger than I am.

MAPP: Right.

TINSLEY: So, it could have gone into effect after. And, I left early.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: I was in and out of Frankfort more too. Yeah.

HAY: Well, let’s walk down…we’ll just walk down to the end, and then we can take the other door out.

MAPP: Oh, ok.

HAY: You go ahead.

TINSLEY: You know, I think it was a ritual to come in that door…

MAPP: Yeah, it was.

TINSLEY: …and go out this one.

MAPP: Yeah, but if you couldn’t find any seats on this end, you’d have to go back around that way. I would do that, and come in and look. And, I remember coming and looking for someone, and you had to…it was hard to find someone that you were looking for because it was always so dark in here.

TINSLEY: You couldn’t see.

MAPP: It was hard to find someone you were looking for. I do remember that.

HAY: And, your eyes would adjust, wouldn’t they, to the dark a little bit?

MAPP: Yeah.

HAY: Where would you stand to look for somebody?

MAPP: Well, mostly right here on the end. Because people…if you were, you know, like standing in front of somebody, or whatever, they would tell you you needed to move. [Chuckle]

HAY: That’s great. Well, I love getting your impressions as you arrived up here for the first time, and I’ll probably ask you, you know, similar questions again.

MAPP: Ok.

HAY: We’ll sit down there and do our sit-down interview. But, let me show you the rest of the theatre too. We’ll walk…I’ll go ahead and open the door.

TINSLEY: I love the bright carpet!

0: 3:00 …-0: 4:00MAPP: Yes. That’s nice, isn’t it?

HAY: It’s fun, isn’t it? So many colors. And then, all the different colors on the walls.

TINSLEY: I think they knew what was on the wall downstairs…you were saying.

HAY: Sort of that patchwork. It was that patchwork of…of different colors.

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: We’ve got Sheila still coming. Well, when…basically this hallway is just the same. Oh, I wanted just to point out too, this was the back wall. Does anybody remember the old exit? That was the fire escape.

MAPP: Yeah. I remember that.

HAY: Yeah.

MAPP: Because I was trying to remember where the bathrooms were.

HAY: They were…

TINSLEY: Here.

HAY: I think there was one in here in this space, and then the other one was down there.

MAPP: Ok.

HAY: In fact, why don’t we just walk this way?

TINSLEY: I don’t remember this corridor being this long. Do you?

MAPP: Yeah. I remember it being…you don’t remember it being this wide, or what?

TINSLEY: No. Going around, you know. It didn’t. I thought…

HAY: This was bathrooms here…this glass area. It’s probably a little wider…well, I don’t know if it’s wider because look at the curve at the end of the hall. So, it was definitely this long, and it was definitely this wide.

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: But, then this has been opened up as an art gallery.

MAPP: Oh, ok.

HAY: So, this is, you know, receptions and meetings, and then changing exhibits. And right now, this glassware…Stephen Powell, the glass artist from Danville…he’s exhibiting these.

MAPP: Oh, ok.

HAY: Have you seen these pieces? You’ve seen these pieces, haven’t you? They are just spectacular.

TINSLEY: Now, they have some beautiful pieces in Louisville.

HAY: Yes.

MAPP: [Chuckle]

HAY: Yes. Some are probably of his works…of Powell’s works…on display in Louisville.

TINSLEY: And then, they have the glass factory.

HAY: Yes. And, he was really instrumental in glassworks as one of those fine artists that helped get that going, I believe. This artist. So, now it’s multi-purpose up here. I mean, when I brought Sheila up the first time, you could see the water fountains were still here on the wall, and you could see…you know. It was all still here.

TINSLEY: What was Sheila’s reaction?

SHEILA [MASON]: And those…well, I was still trying to catch my breath from those steps. [Laughter] They hadn’t changed the steps, and they still had those real steep…and I remember telling Joanna, “I just don’t remember these steps being that steep.” But they were.

TINSLEY: Yes, they were. I remember.

SHEILA: Gosh, they were that deep.

MAPP: Did they have a bar? Did they have a bar in the middle?

SHEILA: No.

MAPP: It’s always been open like that?

SHEILA: It was very narrow though.

HAY: I bet it’s wider now.

SHEILA: Yes, it’s wider now.

HAY: So, at the top you would’ve…Miss Wilson took the tickets…when you got to the top of the stairs up here?

MAPP: No, you had to go…because she had a concession stand that she always sat down here with the concession stand. Yeah.

TINSLEY: Uh hum. Popcorn machine.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: A little bar.

MAPP: Yeah. All kinds of candy, and…

TINSLEY: Candy, and…

MAPP: I’m trying to remember if they had a soft drink machine or something like that?

TINSLEY: There was a soft…I know I had to have a bun…a caramel…

MAPP: Oh, the bun. I remember the buns. [Laughter]

TINSLEY: Oh, you can’t find them anymore. And, they were good. I’d have to have a bun.

MAPP: Peanuts inside.

TINSLEY: Yeah. And, the caramel, or the vanilla.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: But, I liked the caramel. The popcorn machine, and there was a Coke machine.

SHEILA: Yeah. There was a Coke machine.

MAPP: Yeah.

SHEILA: Actually, Miss Wilson…because she knew you were going to get up here without tickets, so there wasn’t a major concern, but she would sit there at the…instead of being behind the counter, remember, she would sit there taking your tickets. She was like a ‘Jack-of-All-Trades’.

MAPP: Yeah. She did that.

SHEILA: If somebody wanted some popcorn, they had to wait until she got the ticket.

MAPP: Do you remember anybody working with her?

TINSLEY: There was another lady that came in. I think…oh, God. Just before we would leave. And, I cannot think of her name. At first, I thought it was Mrs. Ellis, but it wasn’t. That used to be at Kentucky State, you know. In the dormitory.

SHEILA: Oh.

TINSLEY: But, I do remember another lady working with her.

MAPP: I remember as a teenager, we used to wait until after she left and come in the movies.

SHEILA: It was Callie Weathers.

MAPP: Miss Callie! Yeah. Miss Callie. She lived over in South Frankfort, right?

SHEILA: Well, no. She lived on Washington Street.

MAPP: Oh, did she?

SHEILA: At the time, she did.

TINSLEY: Doctor Weathers’s mother.

SHEILA: You know Miss Callie.

MAPP: Miss Callie? Oh, ok! Oh, yeah. I remember her. Yeah. She lived on Washington Street. Right. Right.

SHEILA: Right before you got into the heart of…

MAPP: Right. Right up there near Ann Street. Real close to…

SHEILA: Near Main Street. Near Broadway.

TINSLEY: Just as you turn the corner, you know, maybe a half a block down.

MAPP: Near Broadway. I’m getting mixed up.

SHEILA: Oh, yes. I remember it well. [Laughter]

HAY: Would you come in after she…so, you’d be able to come in after she left, and then come in without a ticket? Is that…?

MAPP: Yes. Because the ticket lady would be gone, and Miss Wilson…she would be gone too. But, you wouldn’t get to see that much because they would stay until late. Yeah.

HAY: So, you’d basically get to see the tail end of the movie?

MAPP: Yeah.

HAY: And, then you’d get to meet all your friends…

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: That is if you were a boy. [Laughter]

SHEILA: Because they’d stay out later.

TINSLEY: Yeah. We dared not.

MAPP: Boys will be boys.

TINSLEY: Thanks for telling us about it. [Laughter]

HAY: Well, I’ll ask you more about Miss Wilson, and what your memories of her are, when we sit down for our interview. I want to hear everything you can remember about Miss Wilson.

MAPP: Oh, she was a no-nonsense lady.

0: 5:00 …-0: 6:00TINSLEY: She really was.

MAPP: She didn’t play.

TINSLEY: She really was.

MAPP: She would put you out. She didn’t take no stuff off of you.

TINSLEY: And, I remember her in preschool. Yeah. She had a…I think it was a kindergarten or nursery school at Third. On Third and Murray. Second and Murray. Yeah.

HAY: How interesting.

TINSLEY: Where Uncle John and Aunt [..] used to live there.

SHEILA: Is that right?

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: It was her Uncle John…?

TINSLEY: No, it was our Uncle John.

HAY: Your Uncle John and Aunt…and your Aunt.

TINSLEY: Yeah. Where they used to live. That’s how I remember. She did. It was sort of a daycare or pre-kindergarten.

HAY: So, what years would that have been? The daycare?

TINSLEY: Gosh! It had to have been in the forties. It had to be around forty-four or forty-five.

SHEILA: Oh, my God! Before we were born. [Laughter]

TINSLEY: Yeah, it did.

SHEILA: But, that’s interesting because I…

TINSLEY: I remember the cod-liver oil. Every day.

HAY: What about the cod-liver oil?

TINSLEY: Cod-liver oil and orange juice. Daily.

HAY: Would you have to drink it?

TINSLEY: Yeah. It was good. [Laughter]

HAY: Was that at home, or was that at the…

TINSLEY: No, this was at the school.

HAY: This was at the school.

TINSLEY: This was at the school. Yeah.

HAY: So, you were there and as a little…

TINSLEY: A little girl.

HAY: As a little girl.

TINSLEY: But, I liked it better with the tomato juice. It was better in tomato juice. I even take it in V8 juice now.

SHEILA: You still drink it?

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: Well, it’s good for you. I think it’s got all those omega’s that everybody says we’re supposed to have and you’ve never heard of until recently.

TINSLEY: Until now. They even have the strawberry. They have it in flavors now. [Chuckle]

HAY: Well, that’s really interesting to hear about that, isn’t it Sheila? We’re trying to learn as much as we can about Miss Wilson.

TINSLEY: I remember Miss Wilson.

HAY: Alright. Should we venture downstairs?

MAPP: That’s fine.

HAY: I heard the heat cut off, Jerry, did you? We listen to the noise of the fans.

TINSLEY: It’s comfortable.

HAY: Yeah, if it gets cold, please let me know while we’re on stage.

SHEILA: So who was that [..]?

MAPP: Shirley Walker.

SHEILA: Really? That’s right. I forgot…

MAPP: Shirley Walker. She was my first girlfriend.

[Transcriber cannot pick out what is being said as people descend the stairs.]

HAY: [..] come have a drink and go to a show. [Chuckle]

TINSLEY: Popcorn. No buns.

HAY: Well, no buns.

TINSLEY: [Laughter]

HAY: We need to find out about buns. Can you find them anywhere? Do you find buns anywhere?

TINSLEY: I haven’t seen them.

HAY: Was it a movie treat? Buns?

TINSLEY: It was a candy. Yeah, it was a movie treat. You’d sit and eat that.

MAPP: Yeah, and the…

TINSLEY: And the peanuts were so fresh and good.

HAY: Oh. Were they made fresh, or did they come…the peanuts were…

TINSLEY: No, they came…everything was packaged.

HAY: Was packaged?

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: So, could you get these buns that you are talking about…could you get them at the Woolworth’s or at the five and dime as well, or would you only get it at the movies?

TINSLEY: I’d only get them at the movies.

MAPP: I think it was like at the movies.

TINSLEY: It was a movie treat.

MAPP: Yeah.

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: That’s neat. You don’t remember the buns?

TINSLEY: You don’t remember the buns?

MAPP: It was a movie treat.

TINSLEY: Oh, gosh!

HAY: Everybody remembers something a little different.

HAY: That was Bill. I just cut him off.

0: 7:00 …-0: 8:00MAPP: Bathrooms.

TINSLEY: As you come in the door, you know, you’d buy your ticket and [..], which you pretty much knew.

SHEILA: I’m laughing. We’re whispering and you all are [..]. [Laughter]

MAPP: Oh, that’s alright. We can’t stop.

TINSLEY: That’s the way it was.

MAPP: I didn’t say anything wrong. I’m not taking back anything I said. [Laughter] We were talking about Shirley and everything.

SHEILA: I asked him on the way down, “Who was that girl?” I don’t think it’s when I asked you that I kind of said, “Well, who was that?” Talking right into you. [Laughter]

MAPP: Yeah. Really. Right in the mic. So, this is what this looks like?

HAY: So, this is…yeah. This is the 1940’s wall, left from the 1940’s. So, this would have been at the back…this is the theatre.

MAPP: Ok. So this is…

HAY: This would have been the back wall.

MAPP: Ok.

HAY: Downstairs.

MAPP: It would have been the same upstairs too, right?

HAY: Yep. This hallway.

MAPP: This…

HAY: Is this door open, Jerry? This one?

MAPP: How about that!

HAY: Oh. Bill just came out of it.

TINSLEY: Still don’t want us to see. [Laughter] I had to. I had to. [Laughter]

HAY: You had to say that? Fair enough.

TINSLEY: Mischievous.

MAPP: So this is what this looks like. This is really…they had a purpose.

HAY: So, that wall was able to be saved too. The one on the right was too destroyed to save, but you can see that motif that was going along that wall.

TINSLEY: But, you know, I don’t know why…I always thought there was an aisle down here.

MAPP: No.

HAY: You know…there was.

MAPP: There was?

HAY: The seats were arranged differently down here.

MAPP: Oh, ok.

HAY: The stairs being the same…

TINSLEY: It would be awful difficult to go from here to maybe to the center, you know, going past.

SHEILA: Yeah. There was an aisle. They…

HAY: Wasn’t it two aisles down…two aisles?

CULL: Yes, an aisle on either side.

0: 9:00 …-0: 10:00TINSLEY: Here and there. Uh hum.

CULL: Yeah, and it’s still there the kind of groove thing, but I think you can see part of it maybe…under the seats.

HAY: Let me introduce you. Bill, this is Suzie Million. Bill Cull.

TINSLEY: Hi, how are you?

CULL: Nice to meet you.

TINSLEY: It’s nice meeting you.

MAPP: Benjamin Mapp.

CULL: Hi, Benjamin. Bill Cull. Nice to meet you.

MAPP: Pleasure to meet you.

CULL: Hello, Sheila. How are you?

SHEILA: Hey, how are you doing, Bill?

CULL: I’m good.

SHEILA: Bill kind of spearheaded this whole invention.

CULL: You can see the other groove right there.

HAY: This groove right there?

CULL: And, it continued over to…well, it went that way, and then I think we had to fill it in to level it out. There was an aisle, yes. The seats were to the side.

HAY: So, there would have been three or four seats on the side, and then the main part in the middle.

MAPP: Oh, ok.

TINSLEY: Because I couldn’t imagine young people going all the way, you know, without confusion.

CULL: What was upstairs is exactly…other than we re-poured the concrete, but exactly what the plans showed was there. I was never in here, but…

HAY: Well, the other thing is too…is that I think it was six hundred seats.

CULL: Six hundred and eighty.

HAY: Six hundred and eighty seats…little seats all squeezed in. Where now what you see is four hundred and ten…four hundred and fourteen. So, imagine the difference in the size of the seats.

TINSLEY: Yeah.

HAY: Do you remember the feel of the seats, or what they were like when you’d sit in them?

TINSLEY: I don’t think so.

HAY: Do you think they were wooden? Do you think…did they flop down and were wooden?

TINSLEY: They did flop up and down.

MAPP: Yeah, they did. They flopped up and down.

HAY: Did they make a noise?

TINSLEY: I think they were wood seats. No cushions. Now, that was a luxury. [Chuckle]

HAY: So, we’ll walk down and I’ll show you the backstage. Jerry, is the sound better with the fans? I can hear a little…

END OF INTERVIEW

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