Oral History Interview with Clarence Metcalf Part II

BEGINNING OF TAPE 2

METCALF: …Back in the day. They were the strong ones.

HAY: Hmmm.

METCALF: Strong suit. Now they just are eewwff!

HAY: Not doing so well.

METCALF: Between the Cleveland Browns, the Dodgers, now, because they have been terrible, and UK football, I tell you I just don’t have a lot to smile about. [Laughter]

HAY: You’ll just have to go to Phoenix and have a change of pace.

METCALF: Mmhmm.

[Camera video comes into view.]

0: 1:00 -0: 2:00HAY: Ok. This is Tape 2. It’s still October the tenth, 2010. And this is…I’m Joanna Hay, and I’m talking with Clarence Metcalf here at The Grand Theatre in Frankfort, Kentucky.

METCALF: Mmhmm.

HAY: So we were just talking about Opening Night where you came to the opening after the renovation of The Grand Theatre into a Performing Arts Center. Sort of bringing a different dynamic to Frankfort. And you were here for The Platters and The Coasters.

METCALF: Right.

HAY: And we’ve talked about what The Grand Theatre meant to the black community when you were growing up. And, I’m just wondering…tell me what you feel The Grand Theatre means to the black community now here in Frankfort.

METCALF: Well, you know, I really watch myself in trying to speak for anybody else. But, I am sure that, certainly, the chance to bring back memories – the opportunity that it presents to see some new, different, exciting venues and the like – you know, is important. The Grand Theatre, you know, as you’re bringing it back now, I think can really be the hub of a lot of the real new and necessary things that we need here in the community. And I think that we all will be better for it if it succeeds. Uh huh.

HAY: Yeah. And, as different…any place like this takes, you know, time where people come and try something out. You know, learn about something new. And I think over the years, it will evolve and change. And as people try…come to a show that they didn’t expect, they’ll then want to come back for something else.

METCALF: Right. And you just mentioned earlier how that you are doing some things…working with the kinks in them. You know, I think sometimes, you know, while we do talk about it, we really realize how important that getting the young children and things involved in area events and opportunities and things…how important it is. And I really think that that’s going to be something that one day you’ll really look back at and be thankful that something was done in trying to revive it. And, you know, I’m hearing…a lot of times, we’re just not appreciative of some things that are just right around; things that we can reach out and touch, because when we’ve always had it, it’s…you know, we don’t realize what it would have been like if we hadn’t. But I talk to a lot of folks that come into Frankfort. A lot of times, I’ve stopped over here at the concerts and some other things. And here’s some of the folks said from other places, they come and say, you know, just how neat Frankfort is. The concerts that The Farmer’s Bank puts on down here at The Old Capitol, and all. The hospitality and things that is talked about…being talked about right now at the Rauly Festival events about people in Kentucky. You know, I just think that, you know, maybe there’s not any jobs in it so much, or a lot of money in it, but there are a lot of places out there that are a lot worse. Believe me. I’ve lived in some places like Detroit and Cleveland, and there are some nice things about those places. But, you know, the warmth. The connective-ness that you can experience here. It’s great! And it’s so much different than some of these places where hugeness and largeness just tends to take away the real personal element.

HAY: So much of the happiness in our lives is just about those one on one relationships. Family relationships. Neighbor relationships.

METCALF: Mmhumm

HAY: Isn’t it?

METCALF: Right. And the lack of the fear, and the anxiousness, and all. And, certainly, we have things that happen here. Some crime and all. But, it’s nothing like some of these areas. I remember moving…when I first left here and moved to Detroit. Probably the most difficult thing that I had to learn and deal with was locking my doors and windows and all, all the time. I remember the people living next door to you, with bars across their doors and windows, and remembering how it was here where we would never lock our doors because a neighbor may need to get in to get some sugar or something. Get some butter. And having to live like that, you know, you’re keeping others out. But, you know, when you have to live like that, you also put yourself in an untenable situation. And it is so good here now. Not that we can walk around, ourselves, here without locking our doors, but, certainly, we don’t have nearly the crime and things of other areas. The drama, you know.

HAY: Yeah. Exactly. I’m going to pause us real quick because…Oh! I know. I had an interesting thought. What…you know…we’ve been kind of taking a trip back down memory lane, and thinking about your years of being the first students when Mayo Underwood closed, and you went to Frankfort High. And the 60’s and Civil Rights, and all of that tension that was going on. And, of course, your memories as a child of the way things were. What do you…how do you talk with your kids and grandkids about those days? Or, the next generations? I’ve always just been curious about that. You know, the younger generations. How…what…how do you tell them about it?

METCALF: Well, you know, it’s real funny because I really found myself, when they were younger, trying so hard to prepare them for some things that whether we had to deal with, or that we thought we’d have to deal with, and the like, in case that they would run into those things. And for so long…a lot of the times…you know, I would feel like a bigot, because they didn’t grow up at the time in which I grew up in. And, I mentioned a little earlier that…I mentioned something about the fact that while we were glad to see some of these things, and knowing there was great changes going to be happening and all…and yet we hadn’t experienced some of it. A lot of times, we had not experienced some of the bad things that segregation and racism had…and left…pulled out. But, some of the reason for that was because our parents endured a lot of it, and shielded us from so much. And I wouldn’t dare say that they didn’t experience it, because they did experience it. But, there’s always a tendency to want to make sure that your children do better than you did. And while things were real bad…I guess…my mother and dad, they always wanted to make sure that we had the very best of what they knew. And to us…I mean I never remember a Christmas where I didn’t have new clothing and everything I wanted. I never remember those kind of times, really. But, you know, it took a long time for me to think back about it, and remember how my mom sometimes had to dress, because sometimes she just went without just to make sure that we had, you know. And so I think in my thing, I know I have tried my best to prepare my kids for some things. And sometimes I’ve maybe overdone it because they haven’t experienced some of the bad things. And you’re trying to self-correct and make sure that they don’t experience some of the things, or if they do experience it, “Hey, know I’m here to help you with it.” And I know I’ve had to go to the schools and things when I’ve thought that there were some things that were going on, maybe, not right with some of my kids, but really, you know, my kids really have always let me know that it’s ok. You know, “I’ve got my eyes open, I know what’s happening, and I know that there can be bad people, but there are also good people. And I can handle that.” While, certainly, I have tried to prepare them, I think that they have been really way ahead of the game than I was. Than I was willing to give them credit for.

HAY: That’s interesting. Yeah. That’s interesting how you can reflect on yourself like that. Tell me…I wanted to ask whether you remember any people who worked here. We talked about Miss Wilson, of course. Do you remember anybody else who worked at The Grand?

0: 3:00 -0: 4:00METCALF: You know, honestly, I can’t. I mean, I, certainly, can remember the guys carrying in the film and things, and going up to the film room and things of that sort, but names of who they were, I don’t remember. There were, certainly, people on the outside ticket windows and things, and sometimes it was that same person and all, but I really don’t. I really can’t say anyone that I can remember.

HAY: I’m just going to throw out some of these names: Mr. Parsons?

METCALF: No.

HAY: Gene Lutes?

METCALF: No.

HAY: Ally Colmes?

METCALF: No.

HAY: Jim Aderberry?

METCALF: No.

HAY: Miss Wilson? You know her. Cally Weathers?

METCALF: Oh! Yeah. Miss Weathers. Cally. Yeah, yeah. Certainly, I remember her, but I’m trying to think…maybe she did stand in for Miss Wilson sometimes. But, certainly, I knew her more out in the community. Yes. Uh huh. And she may have…there could have been times when there were more than just one up here, but certainly, I knew Miss Weathers. Yes.

HAY: What was she like?

METCALF: You know, I’m having to struggle to put a face on her. The name is hitting me as much as anything else, and I know, you know…But, I can never remember any problems with her. So…

HAY: You know, Sheila and I keep talking about Miss Wilson and we really want to find some photographs of Roberta Wilson. We don’t know where to find any.

METCALF: Is that right? No?

HAY: There’s one. Sheila has one. There’s one in the Historical Society, but it’s her in a group picture, and it’s real small. Anyway, if you ever come up with any ideas on where we could find a photograph of Miss Wilson… [Laughter]. I don’t know whether we’ll have any luck, but…

METCALF: She was such a disciplinarian, and I bet you would never think that so many of us thought so much of her, because her role was having to be a disciplinarian. To make sure that we stayed in line. But, you never realize how much things like that have an influence on you. How the way she would dress, you know, it let you know what type of a place that you were coming into. You know, you weren’t coming into a dive, you know. You were coming into a place that you needed to respect, and to act in a certain manner. And, like I said, I would liken her to many of our teachers and the like. And I’m sure Miss Weathers was that same way. Sometimes, this old head gets old, and so many people…I can’t remember some things, but Mrs. Weathers’s name is so vivid with me. I know I knew her…knew her well, but I probably need to see a picture to bring her back, but I know that I don’t have anything to say about her that would be negative.

HAY: I think when we were walking up here, you described what Miss Wilson was wearing, and her jewelry. Could you do a description of what she was like?

METCALF: Yeah. I just can remember her being elegant with really the nicest Sunday, you know, go to church type of clothing, and the jewelry and things that she would have on her. I used the term elegant because I can almost see her coming to the steps…to the ramp of the steps here now, and looking down at us and letting us know that we were making too much noise, and that type of a thing. She always had the earrings and things like that on. And high heels and all. And like I said, she was a…I can’t remember her doing a lot of smiling, because, you know, her front had to be to keep you in check. When she would swish into that theatre because we would be talking or something, you know, quietness ascended immediately. You didn’t want to have to be sent out of here by her, or her call your mother…your parents. [Chuckle]

HAY: So would she walk into the theatre?

METCALF: Oh! She’d be back and forth. Yeah. She was back and forth, you know. And watching you as you came in here, and, of course, she would be there. And I’m sure she was the one that did sell you the various things at the concession stand and all. She wasn’t one that was just propped at a station all the time. She supervised. She ran it up here. And like I said, I’m sure back then we would even say, “Miss Wilson owns that place,” and that type of a thing. It’s good memories, because it wasn’t…we knew because of her mannerisms, that this wasn’t a place that we came and we cursed and we trashed and we’d argue and we fought and we did those kinds of things. Some of that, I’m sure, went on, but it wasn’t a regular thing. And, I’m sure, because of her temperament, she saved many a box and bottles from going over the rail out there down to folks below. And while some did do that, some did happen like that, I’m sure she was…[Chuckle] I was in church this morning, and one of the messages from the minister was that parents need to be in charge. And she was in charge.

HAY: That’s beautiful. That’s really wonderful.

0: 5:00 0: 6:00HAY: Let’s see…I think we’ve talked about…I think we’ve covered my questions, anyway. Let me just double check here. One little sort of summary. Go ahead and drink your water.

METCALF: Oh goodness. Uh hum.

HAY: Sort of a summary. A little question about what was downtown like in those days? Or town?

METCALF: Oh goodness. This area was, of course, really the hub…the business hub and all. For trade and the like. I can remember the Woolworth stores full of candies and all kinds of things. And for the longest time, of course, we couldn’t sit down at the fountains and all. But, it was the hub. It was going to town. Going over to town. It was where we would be going to get something new to wear, or to get our bicycles fixed or something like that. I can remember the drug stores, and people talking about the fountain…the soda fountains, and all. And yet, I don’t remember sitting at soda fountains much because we couldn’t do that in that scene. And getting that pop and soda type of thing. Ice cream and soda type of a thing. But, always sort of wanting to. I remember that after things began to break, and while some of the haunts…some of the places were still open…how I would want to sit up on some of those stools and all. To wonder what that was like when they were serving, you know, various things and all. In town…this area really was big, because there was not West Frankfort and all that going on at the time. And certainly, just below us – of course being the Bottom area – was a very, very popular place because there were barber shops and all kinds of things there, and that would be the source of being able to talk with a lot of the adults and all that would be down there. They would also be watching us, and making sure that we didn’t, you know, go in and try to get up to buy a beer or something like that too early and that type of a thing. I can remember…of course, he was mostly on the other side of town on the Second Street side…but the peanut man in his long peanut…his long…what do you call that? Tux and the like and pushing his peanut cart – hot peanuts and all – around. And Tony Papa, the ice cream man in his…well at one time he was pulling a horse drawn carriage, carrying the ice cream and things like that around, you know. All those things, of course, were really eye-popping, and it was just great when we got a chance to see and to have those things. The circuses and the like which would be not very far from here; were generally out on Home Street and all. But, big times. They would come on the rail cars, and unload them, and sometimes we’d get to see the elephants and things that they’d march towards the parade ground…I mean the circus grounds and all. You know. Big time. I don’t think that we missed a lot of anything growing up here in Frankfort. Mmhmm.

HAY: It sounds exciting. Would you come on a Saturday? Would you come to town on a Saturday when things were…?

METCALF: Probably. Of course, we would have to come through, generally, when we were just going back and forth to school. Although a lot of times, we would not come down, necessarily through this area, you know. We had shortcuts and that type of a thing. But, certainly, coming to shop and our parents bringing us, probably were much more so on the weekends. Yes.

HAY: And what about playing around The Old Capitol yard? People talk about that. Did you remember that?

METCALF: Well, yeah. Some things, because I remember they would have Easter egg hunts and things of that sort. Certainly, The Old Capitol yard was a shortcut, because we would come there from Mayo Underwood. And Jetson-Ross Funeral Home, the black funeral home, was on the other side of The Old Capitol. And, generally, we would cut through The Capitol grounds and the like. As I can remember though, there wasn’t as much activity at The Old Capitol during that time because of the fact that everything was happening at the new site. And, in fact, there is probably even more activity at the old site now with all the various departments develop…economic development over there and everything. And, certainly, with the concerts and all those types of things, you know, the grass and things was always trimmed and all. But, I don’t remember there being all that much activity, necessarily, right there at The Old State Capitol. Uh huh.

HAY: So, since, of course, you know, I didn’t grow up in Frankfort, and it was before my time too is…but when I come downtown on the Friday nights when those concerts are going on, and the streets are full of people, is that what it used to be like?

METCALF: Much more so. Much more so. Much more so, because the gaiety wasn’t necessarily, because there wasn’t a lot of drinking and things like that. But, you had the clothing stores, Davis and The Hunt Club, and what is it? I’m trying to think of the clothing store right on this end here. On this side of the street, right now. Certainly so. Because there was, certainly, opening markets and things of that sort that were there. I remember Muses. Muses Restaurants being on the other end between Muses and things like that, but those things were happening. Certainly, Fitzgeralds up the street which was a place, especially later on when we’d go to buy our albums and things of that sort. Of course, The State Journal, of course, being so close. Both of the banks being there. We had the JC Pennys, and I can’t…I’m hunting to remember some of the various stores and all, but there was a lot of that in and around the area.

HAY: I’ve seen those pictures of the old days where the streets were just full of people, and it looks amazing. So, are there any other sort of thoughts you have that you’d like to…something I haven’t asked you about or something that you had in mind before we finish up, or…?

METCALF: No. Not that I can think of. We’ve probably covered it. [Chuckle] You know, covered it. But, I do, Joanna, appreciate you, you know, having me in to talk with me concerning this.

HAY: Well, I really appreciate you coming in and doing this.

METCALF: Right.

HAY: It’s really a treat. It’s really an important part of Frankfort’s story, so thank you so much for coming in.

METCALF: Right. Thank you. Thank you.

HAY: Alright.

END OF TAPE 2

0: 7:00 …-0: 8:00END OF INTERVIEW

Total time: 1 hour, 39 minutes, 56 seconds