Oral History Interview with Romania Marshall

“Stories From the Balcony”

Interviews about the Grand Theatre in Frankfort, Kentucky

Interview on Video with

Romania Marshall

On Location at her home in Dayton, Ohio

Tape 1 – 2007OH02.30.a

Conducted by Joanna Hay

March 28, 2010

This project has been supported by the Kentucky Oral History Commission

And Save The Grand Theatre, Inc.

Interview with Romania Marshall begins with her seated in her home. Red glassware and window behind her.

HAY: March 28, 2010. We are in Dayton, Ohio on Wales…Avenue? Wales Drive. And we are here to talk about Frankfort, and memories of The Grand Theatre. And off camera to my left is Angela Marshall, her…Romania’s daughter. She’s going to help…[interruption]

HAY:…Name, where she was born and…when she was born, and where she is from.

ANGELA: Can you tell her your name…

ROMANIA: Hmm

ANGELA: Tell her your name, where you were born…when?

HAY: When

ANGELA: …and when you were born.

ROMANIA: Where…when…

ANGELA: And your name.

ROMANIA: My name is Romania Mason Marshall. I was born October the 19th, 1925 in Frankfort, Kentucky on Fouler Street.

HAY: What were your parent’s names, and do you have any brothers and sisters?

ANGELA: What were your parent’s names?

ROMANIA: My father’s name was Robert Mason and my mother’s name was Laura Mason.

HAY: Brothers and sisters?

ANGELA: Brothers and sisters?

ROMANIA: [Nods her head] Both deceased.

ANGELA: Brothers and sisters.

ROMANIA: Ok, my brother is deceased. I had a brother. He was Robert Mason, Junior. And I have two sisters. Mary Mason and Dorothy Luten.

HAY: Ok. What neighborhood did you live in in Frankfort, and where did you go to school?

ANGELA: What neighborhood did you live in?

ROMANIA: What?

ANGELA: What neighborhood? [Pause] What neighborhood did you live in?

ROMANIA: Oh! What neighborhood. Ok. I lived in South Frankfort. 326 East Second Street.

ANGELA: Where did you go to school? Where did you go to school?

ROMANIA: Where did I go to school? I went to Mayo Underwood. It was in North Frankfort.

HAY: Did you walk to school?

ROMANIA: Walked [nodding]

HAY: Every day?

ROMANIA: It was a mile and a half, they say.

HAY: How did you walk to school? Do you remember what streets you walked to school? Did you go across the “Singing Bridge”?

ROMANIA: How did I walk to school?

HAY: What streets?

ANGELA: What streets?

ROMANIA: Oh! See, when I first started, there wasn’t a new bridge. There was just an old bridge. So you’d walk straight down Second…just keep walking until you got to the bridge, and we’d go over the old bridge. Then you’d go down and go down Washington Street until you hit Clinton.

HAY: And then you were there. Did you walk by yourself or with a group?

ROMANIA: No, I walked with my sisters. And sometimes friends. You know, we’d meet up.

HAY: Did you like your school? Did you like Mayo Underwood? What are your memories of Mayo Underwood?

ANGELA: Did you like Mayo Underwood?

ROMANIA: Did they have what?

ANGELA: Did you like Mayo Underwood?

ROMANIA: Did I like it? Oh! I loved it!

HAY: Did you? Do you have any memories of Mayo Underwood?

ANGELA: Memories?

ROMANIA: Memories? Oh, I have a bunch of them.

HAY: Tell me one.

ROMANIA: Oh, let’s see. You want me to tell some of my memories? Well, let’s see. I just had my classmates and all. And, nothing special. Just…I’m trying to think of a memory.

HAY: A best friend?

ROMANIA: I don’t know.

HAY: Teachers?

ROMANIA: Just have…just think about all of it.

ANGELA: What about your teachers and your best friend?

ROMANIA: Come over. What about what?

ANGELA: Teachers. Teachers.

ROMANIA: Statues?

ANGELA: Teachers.

ROMANIA: Teachers. Oh! We had a nice, really good teachers. I liked all of them.

HAY: Did you have a best friend?

ROMANIA: Best friend? Well, I had a bunch of friends. At that time, I don’t think I had a best…well, one of my best friends was a girl named Emma Chisley. But, you know, it was like a family. You liked everybody. At least I did. And I had a bunch of friends. Some of them lived in South Frankfort with me, and then some of them lived on the north side.

HAY: What…what is your first memory of going to The Grand Theatre?

ANGELA: What was your first memory of going to The Grand Theatre?

ROMANIA: My first memory of going to school?

ANGELA: The Grand Theatre. To the movies.

ROMANIA: A movie? What is my first…

ANGELA: Memory.

ROMANIA: …of?

ANGELA: Going to The Grand Theatre.

ROMANIA: Oh, going to The Grand? Uh, let’s see. I don’t know, but we used to go to see a lot of scary movies. And sometimes at midnight they’d have a scary movie. I liked that. And I don’t remember the first time I went, but I imagine I went with my sister, Dorothy, because we went everywhere together. We were real close. My other sister was older.

HAY: So you and Dorothy did everything together. Went to the movies and…

ANGELA: You and Dorothy did everything together. Yeah. You and Dorothy…

ROMANIA: Uh huh

ANGELA: Did everything together.

ROMANIA: Yeah. We did. Even in Sunday school when they passed you up by age. When I’d go up, she’d go with me. [Laughter] She wasn’t the right age, but she’d go.

HAY: What church did you go to?

ANGELA: What church?

0: 1:00 …-0: 2:00ROMANIA: First Baptist. On Clinton Street.

HAY: Ok

ROMANIA: We grew up there. I was the church secretary. I sang in the choir and ushered. This girl that I met said when she came there, we were doing everything but preaching. [Laughter]

HAY: That’s great. [Cough]

ANGELA: What about your cousin or your grandmother?

ROMANIA: My high school?

ANGELA: No, your cousin that used to take you to the theater.

ROMANIA: Huh?

ANGELA: Your cousin that used to take you to the theater.

ROMANIA: The cousin that I said what?

ANGELA: Took you to the theater.

ROMANIA: Used to dinner? [A grey cat passes in the background] My cousin…

[Faint talking in background] [Romania receives what seems to be a note which she reads to herself] Didn’t no lady take me to the movie?

ANGELA: Yes, she did. I remember you telling me about it.

ROMANIA: And bring food? Only time I remember having food…my grandmother…we went to see…uhh…well, anyway, she took some food. Didn’t nobody take me to the movies.

ANGELA: Miss Hallie, or…?

HAY: Miss Callie?

ROMANIA: A lady? [Faint talking in background] What lady?

HAY: Oh, ask her about…ask her about…when you are finished with this, about Callie.

ANGELA: Mer Sally?

ROMANIA: Mer Mary? That was my grandmother.

ANGELA: And she was kind of scary.

ROMANIA: We went to see…what was that long movie? And she took a lunch.

HAY: [Chuckle] So…

ROMANIA: That was my grandmother. We went to see…uh…

ANGELA: Gone With The Wind.

ROMANIA: Yeah! And it was so long, she took a lunch.

HAY: [Chuckle] Where did you see it?

0: 3:00 …-0: 4:00ROMANIA: It was my father’s mother.

HAY: Where…where’d you go see it?

ANGELA: Where did you go see it?

ROMANIA: Huh? What did we see?

ANGELA: Where?

ROMANIA: Where? At the theatre. The Grand Theatre. The Grand Theatre. I think at that time, it was the only one we could go to. Oh, I’m talking to you. [Smile]

HAY: No, that’s fine.

ROMANIA: It was the only one we could go to.

HAY: So, what year was that? What year…what year would Gone With The Wind have come out? How old were you when you went to see Gone With The Wind?

ANGELA: How old were you?

ROMANIA: What? When we went?

HAY: To Gone With The Wind.

ROMANIA: I don’t really remember, but I’d say I was about twelve.

HAY: So that would have been in the 1930…in the late 1930’s.

ANGELA: Probably ’39…or ’40. Late 1930’s?

ROMANIA: Let’s see. I would be twelve. I was born in ’25. ’35 ’37 Around ’37.

HAY: Around ’37. Yep. So you always went to The Grand Theatre because that’s where you…the only place you could go to the theatre.

ANGELA: Always went to The Grand Theatre because that was the only place you could go.

ROMANIA: [Nods]

HAY: And sat in the balcony? Do you remember sitting in the balcony?

ANGELA: Do you remember the balcony?

ROMANIA: The what?

ANGELA: Balcony.

ROMANIA: Mally? [Romania leans in to read what seems to be a note] Balcony? [Nods] That’s where we sat. I had to remember that.

HAY: I figured you would. Do you remember where in the balcony you sat? Did you sit near the front, or did you sit near the back, or did you sit in the middle? Do you know?

ANGELA: Did you sit in the front of the balcony? At the back of the balcony? Or in the middle? Where did you sit?

ROMANIA: Usually about middle way. ‘Cause see you’d go up there, and there’d be a walkway, and you could go up this way or could go up that way.

HAY: Did she see the pictures? I’m going to just pause this for a second…

[Tape interruption]

0: 5:00 …-0: 6:00HAY: What did you say about what it looks like now? It looks different now doesn’t it?

ROMANIA: I can’t imagine.

HAY: [Chuckle]

ROMANIA: [Receives a blue binder to view] This is like something in New York. Big City.

HAY: Did you see the platters and the coasters?

ROMANIA: The platters, yeah, I loved them.

HAY: Yeah.

ROMANIA: I can’t believe this is The Grand.

HAY: It’s…this is the same. That’s all exactly the same. This is different. That’s all changed.

ROMANIA: When I remember, it just had a booth right here. A ticket booth. And we had to go up there…go upstairs…and the other people went this way. And they sat downstairs. [Chuckle]

HAY: Let me show you some more pictures.

ROMANIA: I can’t believe that. [Begins to read] “Celebrates the arts and restores downtown Frankfort. Together at last…” Aaawww

HAY: Remember that song “Together at Last. It’s Been A Long Time”?

ROMANIA: [Continues to read] […] This is interesting.

HAY: And then this is all about the renovation.

ROMANIA: The Hendrick House.

HAY: The Hendrick House was next door.

ROMANIA: Is that the building?

HAY: The building next door.

ROMANIA: That’s what they called it?

HAY: On Main Street.

ROMANIA: I didn’t know what it was.

HAY: Here is ummm…

ROMANIA: Ohhhh…

HAY: Ok, here’s Main Street. And here’s St. Clair Street. And here’s the entrance. That’s the door. You go in on…

ROMANIA: This is Main Street.

HAY: Uh hum… And this is…this right here is the Hendrick House. It’s an extra building that has back…back stage. This wasn’t part of the theatre before.

ROMANIA: Oh boy! That is beautiful.

HAY: See how that’s the same?

ROMANIA: I can’t believe it! [Continues to look at the pictures]

HAY: That’s Main Street. There’s the McClure Building.

ROMANIA: Boy, Frankfort’s really changed. Boy!

HAY: [Chuckle] [Camera zooms out a bit, and Joanna Hay enters the screen from the right] I was going to show you some of the upstairs. The way the upstairs has changed. Look at that. Got that new…

ROMANIA: When I was there, they didn’t have that little place in front of The Grand Theatre…you know…where they made it now like a seats and things. That wasn’t there when I was there.

HAY: Nope. Ahhh…this was underneath the wall. From 1910. Um…

ROMANIA: Who would think to do all this, I wonder?

HAY: That was from 1910. A group of Frankfort people.

ROMANIA: Well, it’s beautiful. I’ve got an address book that does this.

HAY: Oh, it catches doesn’t it?

ROMANIA: What is this?

HAY: Uh…That’s the old 19--…Vaudeville wall when it was a Vaudeville Theatre.

ANGELA: […]

HAY: [Speaks to Angela] And she’ll enjoy reading this. […] was underneath the 1910 […]

ROMANIA: I’ll look at this again. I can’t believe this is The Grand Theatre.

HAY: Here’s the balcony.

ROMANIA: Uh huh. Oooo, they’ve got some nice seats.

HAY: That’s…

ROMANIA: What is this?

HAY: When it’s under construction. It’s the same picture.

ROMANIA: Yeah, ‘cause the projection room used to be right up there.

HAY: Uh hum, and there it is now.

ROMANIA: Uh hum. Uh hum.

HAY: And then what you were talking about with the entrance…let’s see…There’s the balcony. There’s the projection room.

ROMANIA: They didn’t have these handle bars either.

HAY: No.

ROMANIA: What do you call them?

HAY: Railings?

ROMANIA: Those. They weren’t there. What is that? I can’t imagine…

HAY: That’s the hallway when you came up the stairs.

ROMANIA: I don’t know…I don’t know that.

HAY: When you came up the stairs, that’s the hallway in front of you. And that’s the door to the theatre. To the balcony. There might be a better picture.

ROMANIA: Oooohhh…I haven’t been to Frankfort for two or three years now. Used to go down there all the time. When my brother-in-law was living, he used to drive us around.

HAY: Uh hum

ROMANIA: But he passed away, and my sister has a lot of trouble with her knee, and we can’t go anywhere hardly.

HAY: Uh hum

ROMANIA: Now. I can’t get over the…

[Coughing]

0: 7:00 -0: 8:00HAY: Yeah, those ones are harder to see.

ROMANIA: What is this wall?

HAY: That’s a new wall…umm…I think it’s just a wall…from the alley. [Chuckle] I think it’s to cover the alley. Or next to the alley.

ANGELA: Do you umm…

ROMANIA: Hmmm?

ANGELA: She was asking about Aunt Callie. Aunt Callie?

ROMANIA: Aunt Sally? [Laughter] It’s amazing. [Looks over and reads a note] Oh, Aunt Callie? She used to work here sometimes. Did you know that?

ANGELA: No, can you tell her about it?

ROMANIA: Ummm…Miss Roberta Wilson was the ticket taker, and sometimes Aunt Callie would work for her if she had something to do. And there was another lady that used to work. Miss Tillman. She used to take tickets sometimes. Oh boy! Look at that. Toward Main Street. This is unbelievable. Aahhh…Ok, that’s enough.

HAY: [Laughter] Did you know Roberta Wilson very well?

ANGELA: Chic…did you know Roberta Wilson?

ROMANIA: I knew her really well. She was a real good friend. She lived across the street from me after I married. Older. She lived across the street from me.

HAY: Now how…how old was she? Was she older than you? By a lot?

ROMANIA: How old was…

ANGELA: Was she older than you?

ROMANIA: When she did what?

ANGELA: Was she older than you?

ROMANIA: Oh, yeah.

HAY: How much older?

ROMANIA: Yes, she was…she was older than my mother, I think. She was a nice lady, but she was kind of strict. She’d go up in The Grand Theatre. If you were sitting too close, she’d make you move. [Laughter]

HAY: What else was she like? Tell me more about Roberta Wilson.

ANGELA: Tell her more about Chic. Tell her more.

ROMANIA: It’s awful when you can’t hear. [Reads a note] About who? Chic? [Camera zooms in a bit] Umm…I liked her though. A lot of people didn’t. Her husband was a deacon in our church. And, umm…that’s all I know. ‘Cause we didn’t run in the same circles. ‘Cause she was a lot older than me. But, umm…she’s passed on now.

HAY: Do you think anybody has any pictures of Roberta Wilson?

ROMANIA: I remember one time, we…my sister and uh…Sheila’s Aunt May, May Sanders, we ran together. And we went to the show…movie, and uh…May is little. I don’t know if you know her or not. Well, she’s small, and when we got there, the woman sold her a child’s ticket. And when we got upstairs, Miss Wilson bawled us out for taking the ticket. And I said, “Well, she didn’t ask, so we didn’t tell her.” [Chuckle] But, that was funny.

HAY: So she was really strict.

ANGELA: She was really strict. Strict.

ROMANIA: Sherika? [Chuckle] I’m not hearing good today. Sometimes…[Reads a note]

ANGELA: Strict.

ROMANIA: Oh, strict, yeah. I think at one time she might have been a teacher. I think she was a teacher. But she…maybe she subbed or I don’t know.

HAY: How long did she work there?

ROMANIA: But she was strict.

ANGELA: How long did she work?

ROMANIA: Hmmm?

ANGELA: How long did she work there?

ROMANIA: I don’t know. As long as I remember. I don’t know when she started. I don’t know. ‘Cause we didn’t go to the show much until we got older. And Miss Wilson was always there.

HAY: And then did your kids go to The Grand Theatre? You were too…you might have been too young, but your…

ANGELA: Did Donna and Don go to The Grand? Donna and Don. Did they go to The Grand Theatre?

ROMANIA: Well, I used to take them when they were real small, because The Grand…it would have…on Wednesdays they would have a free show for children. And I used to take them. And I had a classmate…she had nine children…and I used to take some of them.

HAY: Can you imagine? [Chuckle]

ROMANIA: She had nine.

HAY: Wow. Because it’s really interesting…all of like Sheila’s age who were teenagers growing up in Frankfort…they all remember Miss Wilson up through the ‘60’s. And…but you might have…Don and Donna might have been a little younger or…

ANGELA: They were eight years older.

HAY: So they were teenagers when you all moved away. Early teenagers.

ROMANIA: I’m trying to think if you went. Yeah, you went. Do you remember going? You remember Perky took your seat?

ANGELA: I remember the stories about it.

ROMANIA: Well, you were real small. But umm…yeah, I took…it was that free show. On Wednesdays they’d have free shows.

HAY: So what was that story? See if you can get her to tell that story.

ANGELA: Isn’t that when I…uhh…he and I got into a fight?

ROMANIA: Huh?

ANGELA: Perky and I got into a fight? Perky.

ROMANIA: Perky?

ANGELA: …and I got into a fight over the seat?

ROMANIA: Yeah. You went out and he took your seat and you made him get out of it. [Chuckle]

HAY: Who’s Perky?

ANGELA: That’s my cousin. Clarence Marshall.

ROMANIA: Let’s see if I can remember anything else.

0: 9:00 …-0: 10:00ROMANIA: I can’t believe this picture. I’ve got to go down there and see it.

HAY: I’ll take you through if you come.

ROMANIA: That’s a man in a wheelchair.

HAY: Yeah!

ROMANIA: Carty. Look, she thought you were going to fuss at her. See her face. Sit down. Sit!

[Unidentified speakers]

ROMANIA: Make her sit. Sit, Carty.

ANGELA: She’s sitting, Mom. She is sitting.

ROMANIA: Hi, Carty, girl. You a good girl.

HAY: So why did you call Miss Wilson Chic?

ANGELA: Why did you call Miss Wilson Chic?

ROMANIA: Why did I call her Chic? I don’t know. That’s what her husband called her one time and I just liked it, so we started calling her that. Just my…uhh…me, because uhh…everybody else called her Miss Wilson. [Laughter]

HAY: So, why did…why did people not like her?

ANGELA: Why did they not like Chic?

ROMANIA: Why what?

HAY: Why did some people?

ANGELA: Why did some people not like her?

ROMANIA: Didn’t like her? Because she was too strict and she’d fuss at you about stuff. She was a nice person.

HAY: Do you remember…let’s see…so Callie Weathers worked there. Miss Tillman worked there. Tell me about Callie Weathers.

ANGELA: Tell her about Callie Weathers.

ROMANIA: Ok. Aunt Callie, she’s my husband’s aunt. She was a really nice, friendly person. And umm…she had a son that was a surgeon, but he’s passed on now. But, she was my husband’s mother’s sister. And…ummm…Angie loved her.

ANGELA: Yes, I did.

ROMANIA: Carty. Aawww…get your foot off, Carty.

HAY: Before Carty goes, I’ve got to get a picture of Carty. Where are you? There. Hi there, Carty.

ROMANIA: She likes you.

HAY: Hi

ROMANIA: No!

HAY: Go talk to Angela again. Where’d she go? There you go. Ok, you’d better go bye. She better go bye-bye now.

ROMANIA: That’s my granddaughter’s dog. But he’s over here more than he’s over there.

HAY: […] Soft-hearted people. […] Ask her if there are any pictures of Roberta Wilson anywhere that she knows of.

ANGELA: Do you know if there are any pictures of Chic?

ROMANIA: Did I ever take a picture?

ANGELA: Do you know if we have any or…

ROMANIA: Of who?

ANGELA: Roberta Wilson.

ROMANIA: No, I don’t have any, and I don’t know who would. She’s passed on now. Her niece took her to Chicago when she got sick, and I didn’t see her anymore after that.

HAY: So she has a niece? She didn’t have any kids.

ANGELA: She didn’t have children.

ROMANIA: No.

HAY: But she was married.

ROMANIA: Yes, she was married. Her husband was deacon in our church, but they didn’t have any children. And they didn’t have a Christmas tree. And that worried my children. They wanted her to have one. [Chuckle]

HAY: Do you remember her, Angela? What do you remember about her?

0: 11:00 …-0: 12:00ANGELA: Just…she was very nice to me. I mean uh…the strictness, I don’t remember at all, and…I wasn’t the most cooperative person back then. But, you know, I’d go over and spend long hours with her. She had flowers and a beautiful backyard. We’d go over and sit, and she would spend time with me. A little kid. It was nice. I was telling her about Chic.

ROMANIA: Huh?

ANGELA: I was telling her about me going over and playing with Chic.

ROMANIA: Yeah. Angie used to go over and play with her. [Chuckle]

HAY: So you knew her more as a neighbor, where a lot of the other kids knew her as the sort of the strict person in the theater that made them follow the rules. So you got the best…you got the best side of her. [Chuckle] I wonder who her niece was? If we could find her niece?

ANGELA: What was her niece’s name?

ROMANIA: Who?

ANGELA: What was the niece?

ROMANIA: Her niece? I didn’t know…I really didn’t meet her. I met her little boy. He came over to play with you. But I didn’t meet the niece. And I don’t know her name. I didn’t know her.

ANGELA: What was the boy’s name?

ROMANIA: Well, she had a little boy around Andy’s age.

ANGELA: What was his name? I can’t remember.

ROMANIA: I don’t know, but he had a very vivid imagination. He would imagine and tell me things. Oh! He told me an airplane came over and hit every house but mine and his…and Miss Wilson’s. I didn’t know her. She lived in Chicago. The niece.

HAY: Do you remember any live performances at The Grand Theatre? Any live shows? Music? Or just movies?

ANGELA: Do you remember any live shows?

ROMANIA: Any what?

ANGELA: Live?

ROMANIA: Live?

ANGELA: Or was it just…

ROMANIA: At The Grand? I never saw a live one there. I…I’m not saying they didn’t have one, but I didn’t see it if they did.

HAY: So who else came to the movies when you went to the movies?

ANGELA: Who did you go with? Who else came with you?

ROMANIA: Movies? What time?

ANGELA: Who else?

ROMANIA: Huh?

ANGELA: Who else?

ROMANIA: Who else? Went with me to the show? I told you I know Doc did. And sometimes, like I said, May went. Oh, one time…uh…we had a cousin named Jean Brooks, and she went with us too.

0: 13:00 …-0: 14:00HAY: Did you have popcorn and drinks at the theatre?

ANGELA: Did you have popcorn and drinks?

ROMANIA: Have what?

ANGELA: Popcorn.

ROMANIA: Popcorn? Always. Always.

HAY: How much did it cost? How much did it cost?

ANGELA: How much?

ROMANIA: I don’t remember. I don’t remember, but I always had it. Even when my husband and I went, he didn’t want any, but I always got popcorn.

HAY: So sometimes you went as a couple, and then sometimes you took your family and your kids. And sometimes you went with your…when you were younger, you went with your sister. So over the years…can you ask…kind of ask her about that?

ANGELA: Ok. When you started you were going with Dorothy. Then, it became a couple thing with Daddy. And then later on you took us. The kids.

ROMANIA: That’s three different ages, you know. Yeah.

ANGELA: Tell her.

ROMANIA: [Chuckle] Yeah.

ANGELA: Talk.

HAY: Tell me. Tell me about that.

ROMANIA: Oh. I said that’s three…three different times.

ANGELA: Explain the three different times. Tell her the three different times.

HAY: Summarize. Ask her.

ANGELA: Summarize. Use your words.

ROMANIA: Summarize? What? What I just said? All this I’ve been talking about?

ANGELA: What I just said about the three different times.

ROMANIA: Ok. That’s when my sister and I went. Like…we were in school or well, after we graduated. And then uh…my husband and I used to go. And then when they came along, like I said, I took them to that free show. That’s three generations just about. [Chuckle] Yeah.

HAY: And then what year…

ROMANIA: Those were the good ole days.

HAY: What does it make you feel when you think about those days?

ANGELA: How do you feel about those days?

ROMANIA: How do I feel about those days? I sit and think about them now, and that’s a sure sign of old age. [Chuckle] So I’ve gotten old. But, sometimes I just sit and think back. I have a best friend there in Frankfort. I don’t know if you know Catherine Grim? She’s my best friend. When her children and my children were small, they were the best days. I always go see her when I go there. Like I say, I haven’t been there for a long time. At least three years. Let’s see…my mother passed away in ’04. 2004. She was a hundred years, seven months, and fifteen days old. We gave her a hundredth birthday dinner. We had it at the Marriott, and we had about eighty-five people. Twelve of our friends and cousins came from Frankfort for her dinner. It was really nice. Her great-grandkids did the…a Faith Dance. I don’t know if you what…It’s a dance they do at church.

HAY: Like a liturgical dance?

ROMANIA: She had three. And they were so cute. They did this dance. Yeah, Mother lived a long time. I could talk for days about her. She was a wonderful mother. Sacrificed a lot for us.

HAY: In what way?

ANGELA: In what way?

ROMANIA: In what way? Well, she…she didn’t have a life of her own. Her life she lived through us. And, we had a father. He was there and that’s all. She did laundry work, and looked after us. Took care…there were four of us. It was four of us. Three girls and a boy. And Mother just about…she…she took care of us. She knew just what to do about everything, it seemed. Don’t let Chris get on the picture. [Chuckle]

HAY: Did you live in the same house the whole time you were growing up? Was it Second Street? Is that what she…did she say Second Street?

ROMANIA: Let’s see what else I can think about.

ANGELA: Did you live in the same house the entire time?

ROMANIA: Did I live in the same house?

HAY: Growing up.

ANGELA: Growing up.

ROMANIA: When? When I was growing up? Well, I was born in another house. Then we moved to 326, yeah. Well, no, because we lived at 318 for a while. Then we moved down. 326 was my grandmother’s house. So we moved down there after my great-grandmother passed. I remember her well. She looked like an Indian. Just like it.

HAY: How many generations of your family lived in Frankfort? You remember…she remembers her great-grandmother.

ANGELA: How many generations of your family lived in Frankfort?

ROMANIA: Hmm?

ANGELA: How many generations…?

ROMANIA: How many generations?

ANGELA: In Frankfort?

ROMANIA: When my oldest sister was born, there was five generations. Five. But, by the time I was born, the oldest one was gone. But, when my sister was born, was five generations. And that’s unusual. Now, I’ve got a picture of my family of four generations. Is it four?

ANGELA: [ ]

ROMANIA: Four.

HAY: Those are great, important pictures to have. And then…

ROMANIA: Let Chris go get it.

ANGELA: He’s gone.

HAY: We can find that at the end and I’ll put it on the film. We’ll do that. And then it was Murray Street. Where on…what was your Murray Street address? 329?

ROMANIA: Huh?

ANGELA: What was the Murray Street address?

ROMANIA: What was…my Murray Street? What did you say?

ANGELA: 329

ROMANIA: [Nods and smiles] Yep. My sister-in-law lives in my…our house there on Murray Street. Lalita Marshall. I don’t know…I mean Lalita Oliver.

HAY: Ok, so she’s still there in that house. That’s great. What was downtown like in those days when you think back to when you were a child?

ANGELA: What was downtown like when you think back about it?

ROMANIA: What was what?

ANGELA: Downtown.

ROMANIA: Southside?

ANGELA: Downtown.

ROMANIA: Downtown? What about it?

ANGELA: What was it like when you were…when you were little?

ROMANIA: Oh! What was downtown like? Uh…we thought it was great, but...it had two ten-cent stores. Penny’s. Lermons. And huh…there was a little store there run by some…I think they were Jews. Browns. Seems like the name of it was Browns. But, it was nice. We used to go shopping every Saturday.

HAY: And then when your kids were coming up, would you shop downtown then?

ROMANIA: What?

ANGELA: When your kids were coming up, would you still go downtown to shop?

ROMANIA: When I was coming up? When you all? Did you all do what?

ANGELA: Go downtown.

ROMANIA: Go downtown? Oh, yeah. I used to take her just about everyday. When the children were in school, Catherine and I would take the children walking. And we’d walk uptown, and go through the stores.

HAY: So now there’s uptown…

ROMANIA: And…uh…one of the managers of one of the ten-cent stores…I don’t remember which one…let her pick anything she wanted in the store. And she thought she was going to pick a doll, but she picked a book. Angie used to love to read when she was little. And this lady…she loved Angie. I’d take her in there to see her, and she said, “You can have anything you want in the store.” And Angie went and found a book. She was so surprised ‘cause she thought…but she…Angie didn’t care that much for dolls. She got them but she didn’t play with them. She’d rather play with her brother’s guns. [Chuckle]

HAY: That’s what I was like, Angie. I had [ ]

ROMANIA: Are those two ten-cent stores still there?

HAY: No.

ROMANIA: Let’s see…Newberry and a ten-cent store.

HAY: Was it a Woolworths? Was it a Woolworths?

ANGELA: Woolworths?

ROMANIA: Hmmm? Where were they?

ANGELA: Woolworths

ROMANIA: Yeah. Woolworths. Yeah. Mmmm. They were right down from The Grand. The Grand was here. They were right there. I tell you that’s a sure sign of old age. [Chuckle] Somehow it slipped in on me. [Chuckle] But I’ve lived a good life. I can’t complain.

0: 15:00 …-0: 16:00HAY: So, are your memories fond memories and happy memories, and…more than they are sad memories? Or is…you know what I’m trying to ask…are they fond memories? How does she feel about it?

ANGELA: Do you have good memories?

ROMANIA: Do I have good memories? Nothing but! Nothing but.

ANGELA: Tell her.

ROMANIA: Memories of my life? Going to school. Going to church. And…just having friends. Having fun. Fun wasn’t like it is now though. But I had a good life. We were poor, but we didn’t know it until we were grown. [Chuckle] ‘Cause we had everything we needed. Never saw a hungry day. Mother got those three meals, and you had to eat it whether you liked it or not. [Chuckle] She said, “Take what you want, but eat what you take ‘cause we can’t spare it; or throw it out.”

HAY: And she was a hard worker wasn’t she, your mother?

ANGELA: She worked hard.

ROMANIA: Huh?

ANGELA: She worked hard.

ROMANIA: My mother did, yeah. She worked hard. She started washing Monday morning at six o’clock. She washed all day Monday. That’s why I don’t. I won’t wash on Monday’s. Then she ironed the rest of the week. We had to carry the clothes. My sister had her route. I had my route. My brother had his. And, my older sister had hers. We all used to carry the clothes.

HAY: So explain that. Ask her to talk about that. The clothes would come to your house? Would…would the kids pick up the clothes and bring them to your house?

ANGELA: Explain how it happened. Did you all go pick up the clothes?

ROMANIA: Yeah. We had to go pick ‘em up Monday morning before we’d go to school. We had to go pick up these clothes. And one time, she had one person that lived in Bellpoint. And we had…I had…I had to walk from Second Street to Bellpoint. Get the clothes, and then go back home, then go to school.

HAY: Then go back across to school.

ROMANIA: And I wasn’t late. Never late.

HAY: So how many fam…how many houses’ clothes would you do?

ANGELA: How many clo…family’s clothes?

ROMANIA: How many families did she wash for?

HAY: Yeah.

ROMANIA: I’d say about eight, maybe. They had these little baskets that she’d do. And there was…uh…let’s see what…his name was Charlie O’Connell. He was something in the gunman there in Frankfort. And she used to do his shirts. And he had about a dozen shirts in a week. White shirts too. And one time Mother got sick, and we had to do the ironing. And I hated those white shirts. But, we…we went way up on Campbell Street; was one up there. Was one on Shelby. One on…uh…the other end of Second. And in the hotel. You know the hotel was there then. And we had…uh…about four women in the hotel that worked for the state. And Mr. O’Connell worked for the state. So we had to go to the hotel. And my mother never complained, but I’d have thrown up my hands to see all that washing. We washed all day Monday.

HAY: What kind of a washing machine was it? What kind of a…

ROMANIA: She had…yeah. She had one of those at first. And she had one of these kind that you had to ring the clothes like that. [Romania spins her hand around and around] She had these three great big tubs to rinse. Great big!

HAY: So, one would have the soap, and one would have the rinse? The tubs?

ROMANIA: What?

ANGELA: The tubs.

ROMANIA: Tubs?

ANGELA: One was the soapy water, and then the rinse water?

ROMANIA: No. The soapy water was in the washing machine, and then you took it out and took it through these things. One of them had Bluewin in it. I don’t know if you know Bluewin. [Chuckle] It was something blue, and it kept your clothes clean and white, and it was called Bluewin. One tub had Bluewin, and two rinse tubs. And this machine that you had to wind. My Aunt Callie had one. So she [Romania indicates Angela] decided she was going to put her hand in it. She put her hand in that ringer. And it…what it did…it…uh…rubbed right here and made a little place [Romania indicates the forearm].

HAY: Did it go in that far? [Chuckle] You had it in that far?

ROMANIA: Put her hand in there. I don’t know why.

HAY: You think…is Bluewin…

ROMANIA: She was about four years old, I guess. Three or four. Aunt Callie…it scared her to death. Doctor Holmes lived up…I mean, had his office up there on Third and Murray. I don’t know. Did you know Doctor Holmes? Well, Aunt Callie grabbed her and went up there, but it didn’t hurt.

HAY: [Chuckle] Because they were wooden…wasn’t it like wooden…wood or metal?

ANGELA: It was wood.

HAY: Did it even…how did you get your arm through there?

ANGELA: [ ]

ROMANIA: When it got to her elbow, it wouldn’t go through, so it just rubbed it.

HAY: I mean, I thought it was just like enough to get a shirt through. [Chuckle]

ROMANIA: I don’t know why you put your hand in there. [Chuckle]

HAY: Do you think…is Bluewin the same as blea…it’s not bleach? Bluewin is bleach?

ANGELA: I don’t know.

ROMANIA: What?

ANGELA: What is Bluewin?

ROMANIA: What is Bluewin? I don’t really know. Like I said, you put it in your water and it was supposed to keep your clothes…keep them white or keep the colors. It was called Bluewin, and it came in a little block like this, and you break off a piece and put in there. And starch. You know about starch?

HAY: Yeah, a little bit.

ROMANIA: Yeah, you had to starch the clothes.

HAY: Would that be sprayed…sprayed on?

ROMANIA: Well, no spray. It was…in a box [technical stutter in the tape], and it was like powder. And you mixed it up. [Chuckle]

HAY: And you’d put it into the water? Is that your phone?

1: 17:00 -0: 18:00END OF TAPE 1