Oral History Interview with Bill Crumbaugh

“Stories From the Balcony”

Interviews about the Grand Theatre in Frankfort, Kentucky

Interview on Video with Bill Crumbaugh

On Location at the Grand Theatre

Tape 0029JTH_DV

Conducted by Joanna Hay

January 12, 2007

This project has been supported by the Kentucky Oral History Commission

And Save The Grand Theatre, Inc.

Tape begins with Joanna Hay introducing Bill Crumbaugh.

Location is in the lobby of The Grand Theatre.

HAY: …Crumbaugh. We are in The Grand Theatre, in the lobby with the old 1910 Vaudeville Wall behind him. My name is Joanna Hay and Bill has memories of coming to the Grand Theatre. Well, how old were you with your first memory of The Grand Theatre?

CRUMBAUGH: You know, I was thinking about that as I was driving back down here, and uh, I was born in 1948 so I must have been…you know maybe seven or eight so…so ‘55 or ‘56 or ‘57 we would all come to town on Saturdays and they had the matinees both at The Capitol and at The Grand. And uh…so depending upon what was on…uh…and some days we would go to both…you could…uh…uh…Dere Willis who just left…uh…he and I were talking. You could ride the big green and yellow bus for a nickel. The admission to the theatre, Grand or Capitol, was a quarter. Popcorn was a nickel. A drink was a nickel. So, if you had a dollar, you could…you could live pretty high for a day downtown. Yeah.

HAY: That would be the Saturday routine? You’d come to town…

CRUMBAUGH: Oh every Saturday. And downtown was mobbed. And the lines would form…I may be stretching it a little bit…but you know, both theatres were full. Both uh…and of course, as I had shared with you earlier, I got to experience the downstairs and the upstairs both at The Grand, and both were just almost always full on Saturdays for matinee.

HAY: Tell me the story of um…the time you…or the times you went upstairs…um…to the balcony.

CRUMBAUGH: Well, uh…I went downstairs as a young kid, and also as a, you know, sort of a young teenager with a date or two and we would go downstairs, but upstairs we had one of the sweetest ladies ever. Her name was Sadie Garrett, and she and her sons and daughters lived on Little Dixie Avenue in South Frankfort. And uh…Sadie was good enough…how she put up with my brother and me I’ll never know…but she was good enough to…to sort of help raise us. And uh…so periodically, I guess when she had to have a break and have some calm, she would bring us to town to the theatre. And of course, Sadie could only…Sadie was African-American and could only go upstairs. So, we would…as everyone else did, we bought our tickets outside, but then we climbed the steps to the second floor…and uh…gave them our ticket up there and bought our popcorn at the upstairs popcorn machine, and our drink at the upstairs drink machine, and uh…would go in and kick back and uh…watch the Saturday afternoon matinees…it was just…and you know, you never thought…I mean I didn’t…it never occurred to me uh…black or white. It was just sort of a fun afternoon…so…

HAY: How was it different up there from sitting downstairs as far as the feeling of it? What did it…

CRUMBAUGH: You know…once in a while I get to say I am too young to remember, but I really am too young to remember. My answer to that would be I don’t remember any difference…because we were just there to enjoy whatever was playing. So you know, I guess I saw them the same.

HAY: Was it mostly kids on…was it…the audience would be majority kids on those days when you would come? Upstairs or downstairs? Young…

CRUMBAUGH: I think it was a mix, but I would say that the larger proportion were probably, you know, kids and…well, and back then, Moms and Dads never worried about turning the kids loose for the day. We would come from uh…the Tanglewood area and, you know, from around Frankfort High, and we would leave home in the morning, be gone all day, and come to town, show up at dinner at night and everybody knew everybody was ok…so…yeah…

HAY: That must have been a nice feeling.

CRUMBAUGH: It was.

HAY: That was the life. So small town…

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right. uh huh

HAY: Small town Frankfort…Your parents would feel happy and know that you were safe. Well, they probably knew where they could find you. They could probably have found you, couldn’t they?

CRUMBAUGH: That’s good…yeah…

HAY: If they wanted to…

CRUMBAUGH: Well, and you know, if we wanted to have lunch at the matinee at The Grand we would go next door to Newberrys to the lunch counter. Have lunch and knock around Newberrys and see all the twenty-five cent toys, so it was…it was pretty neat.

HAY: And all your friends would be here?

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right…yeah…

HAY: Bumping into each other?

CRUMBAUGH: uh huh…

HAY: So those were your…lets say age seven and eight, and then did you keep coming to the movies through your teenage years? And…

CRUMBAUGH: Well, you know…what’s the math? When did the theatre close? ‘60?…

HAY: Mid-sixties

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah, ‘67 or ‘68. Actually, I guess they closed The Grand about the same time they raised The Capitol.

HAY: Could be…

0: 1:00 -0: 2:00CRUMBAUGH: I think The Capitol was torn down in the end of the late sixties or the mid-seventies so The Grand may have closed a little bit before that. But you know, my memories are really as a um…as an eight, ten, twelve year old, and then I guess as you get to thirteen and fourteen, you’re onto things besides going to the Saturday afternoon matinees. [Laughter]

HAY: You’re thinking about other things.

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah right [Laughter]

HAY: Coming up with other stuff to do.

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right [Laughter]

HAY: But for that age group, you’re right, up to about twelve, would you just look forward to the movies all week?

CRUMBAUGH: Oh absolutely. Because I can remember…uh…when we had no TV. I remember very clearly the day the first TV was carried in our house and hooked up. Yeah…Three channels and it went off at six o’clock at night, and so…so we didn’t have all of those luxuries that uh…that people had, you know, in the sixties and seventies and eighties, so coming to the…uh…coming to the movie on Saturday in town was just…that was a big deal.

HAY: Was the movies…I’ve always wondered why…uh…movies are so…it’s like being transported to another…you’re taken out of life…It’s the ultimate escape…

CRUMBAUGH: uh huh…You know it’s interesting. As I recall, Joanna, that there were three purposes served. Because they always had a newsreel. So it would show you what was going on in the Korean War, or what was going nationally. So you got a little bit of an education. And I don’t know whether the newsreels lasted a couple minutes, but it was UPI or AP news reel. So you had that. And then, ‘course, they had the cartoon or cartoons. Then they had…uh…they had some short things like Tom Mix…uh…The Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry. They’d have a…uh…maybe a… as I recall a twenty minute or a thirty minute…may have been a little longer than that…And then…uh…they would have the full length movie. I remember in the upstairs balcony watching…and of course the movie was made in 1939 Jessie James and The Great Train Robbery. And I remember it may have been my first trip upstairs at The Grand in the balcony that we went up and watched. This was, you know, something that it had been out fifteen years I guess…but that was the…might have been the first movie I had ever seen in the balcony. Which to this day is one of the great films of history…so…

HAY: So The Grand was the second…people called it the “B Movie” theatre. They called it the “Second Run” movie theatre…so if you were getting a…they would show films here that had come out fifteen years before it sounds like…sometimes…

CRUMBAUGH: Yes, and I’ve heard people say that, but, you know, I don’t remember that…that The Capitol was the “A movie” and The Grand was the “B movie”. My recollection is we just sort of showed up downtown. And we checked the marquees out and decided what we wanted to do.

HAY: And just decided what you were going to do.

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah…yeah…

HAY: Did you come as a…as a family sometimes, or was it mostly friends?

CRUMBAUGH: I never remember coming as a family. Always with my brother and with Sadie Garrett. Or with…you know…four or five friends and we would just all agree to meet downtown in front of the theatre at noon or something…yeah…yeah

HAY: So these…next door was…um…weren’t there two dime stores right next door?

CRUMBAUGH: Yes…FW Woolworth, and…uh…and next door just beyond FW Woolworth was JJ Newberry. So the two dime stores. Those were great hangouts, and in the 200 block of St. Clair was the Sears store and uh…the third…I believe the third…somebody will remember this better than I, but one of the floors…upper floors…was the toy section. And that was the place…especially at Christmas time.

HAY: So you’d go up there…

CRUMBAUGH: Oh, we’d just hang out for hours. They’d set up an American Flyer train display or line…and we’re getting off The Grand Theatre here, but…[Laughing]

HAY: But that’s all…I always like to hear the other parts of the day…or what you’d do on a Saturday.

CRUMBAUGH: [Laughing] Yeah

HAY: What about…how would you get…You could walk to town…‘cause where did you live?

CRUMBAUGH: uh huh…in uh…We lived in South Frankfort...on uh…Campbell Street for my early early years, and then we moved into a little house in Tanglewood. But we walked to town, or ride the yellow and green bus, and uh…but you didn’t think anything about it. It was pretty neat.

HAY: Certainly different than this quiet street we’re looking out of these windows now.

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right. But we’re working on that…you know…it doesn’t happen instantly but I think we will see…my hope is anyway…that we will see a continued revitalization much of which credit should go to The Grand and to the folks that have been part of that. But to have more residential downtown…and…and…we’ll get that. It is certainly a much more vital downtown than it was. We started…we did the first restoration, for us anyway, downtown in 1980 when we restored the…uh…what we call the I Davis Building. And, you know, as the old saying goes, you could fire a gun through here and couldn’t hit anybody in 1980. It was really pretty desolate. So lots of great things have happened. We’ve just got to keep improving on it.

HAY: I love coming downtown. And I think its just going to be reinvented.

CRUMBAUGH: You’re right.

HAY: It can’t be like the forties or the fifties.

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right. That’s right. It’s a different day. It’s a different…it will be a different downtown. But, it can certainly be a…well, with both history centers, the State History Center and the Frankfort History Museum and the new library, and there’s just so many good things going on.

HAY: And restaurants continue to open up.

CRUNBAUGH: That’s right.

HAY: And then they stay in business.

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right. Yeah…yeah. So it’s a good time.

HAY: So that is nice. Do you remember…I’ve got a few names here…uh…Mr. Parsons, I think was before your time. He was the manager here.

CRUMBAUGH: No.

HAY: Gene Lutes?

CRUMBAUGH: Very much so.

HAY: Can you tell me about Gene Lutes?

CRUMBAUGH: Well, he and his wife lived on the corner of…uh…State and Murray…and I remember them very well. As a matter of fact, they played Bridge with my mother and father

0: 3:00 -0: 4:00many many times. Her name was Car--…uh…maybe the daughter’s name was Caroline…but I remember him very well. Yeah.

HAY: And he was the manager here, or manager of…I think…The Capitol and The Grand?

CRUMBAUGH: I don’t know whether…Yeah…I don’t whether it was one or both, but I remember him. And that was in the fifties.

HAY: And would you see him here when you would come? Would he be…

CRUMBAUGH: Yes…

HAY: …present in the lobby?

CRUMBAUGH: uh huh…very visible. Had the Kremel hair tonic in his hair…combed back slick, and very well dressed, and…yeah I remember him well.

HAY: What did you call that hair tonic?

CRUMBAUGH: Kremel…K-R-E-M-E-L…My dad…all…all the men of that vintage wore Kremel…used Kremel hair tonic.

HAY: Was it just a slick? Or was it…

CRUMBAUGH: oh yeah…no wind. No. You could walk through Hurricane Katrina and it would just…you would still be…[chuckle]…just as before. Yeah.

HAY: Did it colorize as well or was it just…uh…?

CRUMBAUGH: No. It was just more of a lamination than a color. [Laughing]

HAY: Does the name Ally Combs mean anything?

CRUMBAUGH: No

HAY: Jim Aderberry?

CRUMBAUGH: Yes. I know Jim, who actually worked for the post office for a number of years, I think, after his time in the theatre business.

HAY: And you remember him in the theatres, or as assistant manager, or…

CRUMBAUGH: Well, you know, I remember Gene Lutes much better than I do…uh…is it Jim Aderberry?

HAY: Jim Aderbury

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah…uh huh…uh huh…

HAY: And then, Miss Roberta Wilson?

CRUMBAUGH: No, but another person that you should get to interview would remember her. I do not remember her.

HAY: Right. She was upstairs just holding…

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah…She carried the big yardstick.

HAY: …she carried the big yardstick upstairs and everybody loved her. Do you remember anything about…I think you were too young but…live shows? Any live performances? Or live…any other activities inside the theatre?

CRUMBAUGH: No. Just movies.

HAY: And…ummm…course you now have your business is here. Has your family been in Frankfort for generations?

CRUMBAUGH: We have grandchildren now who are the eighth generation. So we’ve been here a long time.

HAY: That’s tremendous.

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah. My great-great-great-great grandfather who was born in 1776 and died in 1826 is buried in the Frankfort cemetery. So from him all the way forward we are all…yeah…

HAY: Where did he originate?

CRUMBAUGH: He came to the United States from…uhhh…the ship left England in…the 1790’s, I think, and then like many he started in Pennsylvania and moved west and they settled in Frankfort.

HAY: So he was a real adventurer, and…

CRUMBAUGH: He was…yeah

HAY: …almost an explorer…

CRUMBAUGH: He was. That’s exactly right.

HAY: And he ended up here in Frankfort.

CRUMBAUGH: uh huh.

HAY: So did he bring a wife with him? Did he marry here?

CRUMBAUGH: He did. He was Jacob and her name was Louisa. And then they had kids who had kids who had kids who had kids…

HAY: And is that Crumbaugh?

CRUMBAUGH: uh huh…Yeah

HAY: That’s the same name?

CRUMBAUGH uh huh…Sure is

HAY: That’s really interesting.

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah Yeah

HAY: So that…the family…if you…all of his descendants…it just must be…how many people?

CRUMBAUGH: It’s a pretty broad genealogical line but to study the genealogy is real easy. I just drive up to the Frankfort cemetery and I don’t have to do very much more. [Laughter]

HAY: “Crumbaugh”…”Crumbaugh”…

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right [Laughter]

HAY: That’s interesting too. The name remained Crumbaugh? You didn’t…you’re still a Crumbaugh. It’s not the female line.

CRUMBAUGH: That’s right.

HAY: A lot of males, I guess.

CRUMBAUGH: It’s fascinating. Fortunately, I’ve been handed a lot of information, but I’ve, you know, I’ve worked some on it, and as I maybe work professionally a little bit less, I’ll have even more time to do the genealogy and the family history.

HAY: Fascinating. Um….so you have your business downtown?

CRUMBAUGH: uh huh

HAY: And uh…you’re very involved with downtown and different projects and properties?

CRUMBAUGH: Yes. We’ve enjoyed it. It’s been a lot of fun.

HAY: And of course you’re helping with The Grand Theatre. You’ve already contributed time and effort, and…

CRUMBAUGH: Well, we’ve all done a lot. There are a lot of people, and I’ve been very little, but it’s been a lot of fun. Yeah.

HAY: Do you have any other stories you’d like to tell before we rap up?

CRUMBAUGH: No. I think as far as I’m…

HAY: We’ve gone in a lot of different directions, but I think…

CRUMBAUGH: Yeah…yeah…

HAY: …we’ve stayed on topic.

CRUMBAUGH: Well, and you’re very nice to take the time to do all these interviews…

HAY: Thank you.

CRUMBAUGH: …that’s pretty special.

HAY: Thank you for doing this.

CRUMBAUGH: You’re welcome.

HAY: Thanks.

At the end of this interview, Joanna Hay filmed The Grand Theatre inside and outside in order to document what it looked like before the renovation began. Monty Moore shows up and chats with Joanna.

END OF INTERVIEW

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