Oral History Interview with Dorothy Hudson Switzer

“Stories From the Balcony”

Interviews about the Grand Theatre in Frankfort Kentucky

Interview on Video with Dorothy Switzer

On Location at the Grand Theatre

Conducted by Joanna Hay

January 12, 2007

This project has been supported by the Kentucky Oral History Commission

And Save The Grand Theatre, Inc.

HAY: Today is January 12, 2007 and I’m talking to Dorothy Hudson Switzer, I’m Joanna Hay and we are inside the lobby of the Grand Theatre with 1910 Vaudeville wall that was exposed when we removed some of these extraneous newer walls. And Dorothy’s family has been around Frankfort a long time and tell me, what is your first memory of the Grand Theatre.

SWITZER: I guess my first memory was coming down with a childhood friend and his housekeeper and we were priveleged to go to the balcony. Every body didn’t get to do that so we thought we were really special in that we got to up there.

HAY: What year would that have been?

SWITZER: Probably well ‘45 or something about there.

HAY: And of course those were the years where African Americans went to the balcony and the white patrons went stayed downstairs.

SWITZER: Correct

HAY: and often the two worlds did not meet.

SWITZER: They did not meet at all.

HAY: What do you remember up there, was it exciting for you?

SWITZER: We thought it was exciting just to get to be there and also I came downstairs to some movies too it was b movies and cowboy things and occasionally I would come down here and actually I was in high school and would come down here with an aunt because sometimes a movie would come back that we had missed and the Capital and I do remember the slope and the stage and the floor being really sticky and I think it was from candy being thrown on the floor and stomped. And I do remember I must have been about 8 or 9 and a cowboy came to town. He was Lash Larue and he and his horse were out front and it was a black horse and he was all in black and instead of a gun he had a whip and I got his autograph.

HAY: Do you think you still have that?

SWITZER: Probably in Mother’s basement someplace.

HAY: So did he do a live show?

SWITZER: I have no idea I just remember being out front and I was so impressed that I got to talk to him and get the autograph there was probably a movie with him or something.

HAY: and you think that would have been about what year?

SWITZER: I was probably about 8 or 9

HAY: And what year were you born?

SWITZER: ’39

HAY: So you wouldn’t normally expect to see horses in those days then on the street.

SWITZER: No, not out in front of the Grand Theatre, no you wouldn’t. [laughing]

HAY: I’m just going to put you on hold for a second. I just need to adjust need to adjust your microphone to keep it from rustling. I think that’s so interesting about there being Lash Larue and his horse. Some people have talked about remembering seeing the live shows where the horse would actually come in through the back door and be on the stage…

SWITZER: No, I don’t remember that.

HAY: a mix, mostly movies here and cowboy movies…

SWITZER: particularly cowboy movies and sometimes a movie would come back... an a-list one, but it would be a second run, of course, wouldn’t be first run down here.

HAY: So you mostly went to the Capital as a young child and then as a teenager with your friends.

SWITZER: Oh, yes, that was I remember of course much more of the Capital because that was the social life but I can remember as a child, since we lived downtown we were allowed to walk up there because they would put us across one street and then we could go to the movie and then you know someone would meet us when it was over. So, I can remember when it was really hot before we had air conditioning and you’d go to the movie on Saturday afternoon to be cool.

HAY: So it was cooler inside?

SWITZER: It was.

HAY: Was it because of the cave like…

SWITZER: I don’t know if it was air-conditioning but it was much cooler to go to the movies so I remember that.

HAY: Did I see you say you remember Vince Parsons?

SWITZER: Yeah, or Mr. Parsons.

HAY: His father was the manager was here in the 1940s and the Vince grew up here and worked here and was an usher here, I think here and at the Capital…. And I did an interview with him North Carolina and he’s been very interested in the Grand and the renovation.

SWITZER: It’ll be wonderful

HAY: And he remembered the different live shows here, of course he was so involved here....

SWITZER: .. been much more involved in it than I would have been.

HAY: But, what I understand is that the Grand theatre was a B-movies and stuff but really a different clientele but really a different social scene at the Grand than at the Capitol. Can you give me any insights on that?

SWITZER: Well, since I’m a country girl now, but it was the people that the cowboy and things would appeal more to than the city folk I guess that would be the best way to put it… it was different…. It was real popular on Saturday when Saturday was country come to town and it was great. Downtown was wonderful.

HAY: It was hopping…

SWITZER: It was hopping and alive.

HAY: and then your family business was Hudson’s and was it clothing?

SWITZER: Oh yes, it was very nice clothing store and kind of a mini department store because we had linens and children’s clothes and ladies accessories also it was an upscale store there it was very nice. It was great while it lasted,

HAY: It’s amazing for me to try to imagine what the downtown was like in those days when the theatre would be a part of that.

SWITZER: BIG part of that.

HAY: The Grand and the Capital. From what I gather the kids would often come to the theatre for the day while their parents were doing their errands.

SWITZER: It was safe then, you could do that. Just drop them off and pick them up and used to do that many times with a childhood friend… that his parents would let us off at the movie and give each of us a quarter and when it was over you’d go next door and use the phone and they’d come pick you up?

HAY: How much was the movie at the Capital?

SWITZER: For children it was 15c and popcorn was a dime. Milk duds were a dime, there were no soft drink machines at that time. Uh. It was a long time ago. It was 54 cents for adults I think when I was in high school.

HAY: and are you considered an adult once you are in high school what’s the cutoff?

SWITZER: I think at that point it was 12 that you had to start paying more.

HAY: And how much do you think admission was here at the Grand?

SWITZER: I’m thinking it was pretty much the same. I can’t remember that but I’m guessing it was the same.

HAY: A lot of people describe the Grand as kind of dirty…

SWITZER: Uh, yeah. [chuckle]

HAY: dirty and sometimes smelly. It seems like there’s a lot of lore about the Grand like things like rats and mice… do you remember any of those.

SWITZER: I don’t remember any of those. I just do remember sticking to the floor like it wasn’t very well kept. I think that was probably milk duds and things on the floor.

HAY: spilled drinks.

SWITZER: No there weren’t drinks…

HAY: So, you’d get popcorn and milkduds but no drinks?

SWITZER: NO, there weren’t drinks in the theatre until I was in High School and then there was a machine at the back that you could get your own but you couldn’t take it down to sit. And I don’t know at what time it evolved with cupholders and what.

HAY: That’s really interesting

SWITZER: Yeah. I can remember that very well at the Capital.

HAY: Do you think that was… they didn’t want to serve the drinks at the theatre because of the mess or was it because people weren’t needing drinks… weren’t demanding…

SWITZER: they just weren’t demanding… you know… that.

HAY: ‘cause now you can’t imagine someone eating that big thing of popcorn…

SWITZER: but there wasn’t that big a thing of popcorn either… it wasn’t supersized at that time.

HAY: Today’ when it’s a supersized box of popcorn you have to have…

SWITZER: oh you have to have a drink to get it down.

HAY: That’s a really interesting little aside there!

SWITZER: Yes, it was pretty limited. But at the Capital we had dance recitals there and I can remember a number of times dancing on the stage at the Capital and live things…Daddy was a barbar-shopper and the barbar shop quartets had their things there and uh the Kiwanis club did the Kiwanis cuties when the men dressed up like women and made fools of themselves – it was great – and I can remember going to see those things at the Capital as well as the movies.

HAY: That’s amazing:

SWITZER: It was fun

HAY: So would that have been your dance school.. your?

SWITZER: Yes, Barbara Ann’s School of Dance.

HAY: And how old were you during those years?

SWITZER: Oh, I danced from the time I was first grade, six, til I was twelve or so, I guess. Yeah.

HAY: That’s tremendous.

SWITZER: Oh, yeah, it was a big deal to get out there! And you know…

HAY: So when the Capital went away, where did the dance schools start doing their dance recitals?

SWITZER: I don’t know… sometimes they were at the High School, I can remember some being at Frankfort High.

HAY: maybe the two new high schools…

SWITZER: but I was so far out of it by then…. I don’t know where…. Where they go now.

HAY: So when did you start working at the store.

SWITZER: I actually did not start working at the store until let’s see, I was married and I started going in three days a week starting probably in ’65 or something. [Hugh Hudson in background says I would say so] and I had never worked in it before and I used to do bookkeeping and then I found that I really didn’t like that… I really wanted to be up on the floor and I liked the sales I liked to sell well actually I liked to dress people and play in that and do displays and that kind of stuff. Didn’t work full time til both my boys were in High School and then I’d be home when they were. And gradually when Daddy said he was going to retire and said did I want to take it over well… I didn’t know but if he was going to get rid of it the worst thing I could do was run it into the ground and I well… did OK for twelve years or so and enjoyed almost all of it… most of it.

HAY: of course those were challenging times for retail in downtown Frankfort.

SWITZER: yes.

HAY: I’m sure it wasn’t just you.

SWITZER: No. because it was the Walmarts and the big stores got bigger and the small stores got smaller but uh, we had wonderful clientele and there were people that were faithful to us and would call and say I need a whatever and you’d try to find it for ‘em… yeah… they went to New York faithfully and I went the Atlanta Market.

HAY: That was a nice business to be in. It’s a shame that that can’t sustain itself.

SWITZER: It can’t, it just can’t.

HAY: What did you think the biggest factors in the decline of downtown were.

SWITZER: Well, the general public says Parking, but that’s not true, because they’ll go to a mall a park half a mile away and I can get on a horse about that one. I think it was uh, maybe variety, you could go to a mall and hit one of everything and ours was limited. I don’t know. I much prefer a small store where I can go in and somebody will speak to me and somebody will help me than to wander around a big store, but then I’m old fashioned about things like that.

HAY: Times certainly have changed. When I walk around Walmart and there are so many people in there on a Saturday or after work, I try to imagine that this is what downtown was like… you almost have wall to wall people

SWITZER: Yes, it was wonderful.

HAY: but now you have it in the Walmart.

SWITZER: Scary, isn’t it!

HAY: And of course it’s so cheap and everything is so inexpensive.

SWITZER: and that’s another thing too…is pricing and of course we’re such a throw away society now, you know no one wants to play $100 for a nice pair of slacks or $200 for something that’s going to last for 20 years because they’d rather wear it for one season and throw it away and get more. And that’s just the way we are with things.

HAY: But the social life of coming to town on a Saturday… that can never be replaced.

SWITZER: No

HAY: Everybody would see everybody

SWITZER: Or even, as I say, I grew up on Wapping Street and you’d come to town just to come to town. You’d go to Mucci’s and you’d get a coke and you’d visit and see people up and down the street and just come wander around just because just because you could, I guess. And go to the dime store like you can go to Walmart now and wander through, you don’t have to buy anything but it was fun to just… It’s just a whole different thing… but I think… there’s really bright spots in downtown and this is certainly going to be one of them. So I’m excited about it too. I was here the night they lit the Marquee and that was such a thrill to stand out there and see that happen! It was great!

HAY: I loved how the marquee had “Casablanca”

SWITZER: Yeah!

HAY: And then “Inconvenient Truth” and you had these two eras colliding! When would you see those two films together on a Marquee?

SWITZER: Right… I was out of town I missed the Inconvenient Truth.

HAY: It was packed, two or three nights sold out.

SWITZER: Yeah, I heard it was.

HAY: There is a real need

SWITZER: Yeah,

HAY: You were talking about movies like The Queen… Films that don’t come to Frankfort

SWITZER: Right, and they’re all the top films… but we seem to cater to the hack and slash kind of things.

HAY: So there’s definitely a niche, I think.

SWITZER: I think there is too and I think this will fill it. I’m looking forward to it… all happening again.

HAY: Tell me about maybe when you were 12 or 13 or 14 and what you would do on a Saturday downtown.

SWITZER: Well, you’d go shopping, of course I’d go up to the family store and wander around and you might meet friends and go get a coke or a soda… that was a big thing. Uh, we had bake sales in High School and Junior High you’d have sell cookies and stuff and I don’t remember what we got the money for and I don’t know that we made any money but I set up bake sales.

HAY: Where would you set up?

SWITZER: Usually in front of our store… that was the most popular place and uh, then you’d go to the movie or you’d go Saturday in Junior High to the Y to the ball games the old Y that’s about to fall in the river. That was a big deal, you’d go to the Y and meet your friends and come to town and go to the movie with a bunch of people. That was your social life. And then, as You got older and outgrew the Y, it was a date and the movies changed three times a week. So you could go on a Friday night sseems like it was Thursday, Friday, Saturday and then it changed on Sunday so if you had a date on Saturday night you could go again on Sunday night and not see the same movie. That was pretty much it.

HAY: so you grew up on Wapping street and that meant you could walk… would you walk to town? Oh, yeah. And were you free to walk within certain, anywhere?

SWITZER: Not anywhere, but you could walk anywhere downtown, pretty much, you stayed on this side of the street. It seemed like there were a lot of saloons on that side of the street --- of course you were always looking in.

HAY: On st. Clair here?

SWITZER: uh huh.

HAY: So you’re saying that this side of the street that the theatre was on

SWITZER: was the better side

HAY: and the other side was the saloons.

SWITZER: Yes, course the dime stores were here.

[Hugh Hudson interjected that “When we were young the country people would come to town on Saturday’s everyone would congregate in front of the dime stores and you could hardly walk down the street on St. Clair]

uh huh

HAY: Everyone would be visiting?

SWITZER: Yes!

HAY: [Joanna reiterates for the microphone what Hugh Hudson said] He was just saying how that on a Saturday the country people would be in front of the dime stores and congregating and visiting and probably catching up on the week’s news…

SWITZER: absolutely

HAY: and you could hardly get into the dime store. So there were two dime stores in a row

SWITZER: Yes

HAY: one was Woolworths, what was the other one?

SWITZER: Newberry’s

HAY: and that was a dime store too.

SWITZER: Yes, same thing.

HAY: And they were packed all the time.

SWITZER: Yes, Yes there were.

HAY: And I heard that on the other side there was a pool hall.

SWITZER: Yes, that was the rougher side.

HAY: You were, You were sort of allowed to hang out as a child.

SWITZER: I don’t ever remember being told not to go, but I remember we just kinda stayed on this side of the street.

HAY: What year were you born

SWITZER: 1939

HAY: I already asked you that, but we’ll get that for the record.

SWITZER: again

HAY: Uh… do you have children?

SWITZER: I do

HAY: You have two boys�SWITZER: Two boys, exactly.

HAY: Did you bring your children to the movies?

SWITZER: Oh yes, we used to go to the movies.

HAY: Where would you take them?

SWITZER: to the Capital

HAY: And they were growing up in the…

SWITZER: 60s

HAY: And were they all grown up by the time the movies moved out to Franklin Square. Do you go to the movies out there?

SWITZER: Very seldom because there’s nothing I want to see.

HAY: Do you go to Lexington to the movies?

SWITZER: no I hardly ever go to the movies actually… I’ve been down here several times…

HAY: Did you come see “Some Like It Hot” down here?

SWITZER: I think I was out of town… I think Casablanca was the only movie that I caught.

HAY: That will be fun when you can come regularly and see a variety of things.

SWITZER: And I will, and I will.

HAY: Did you come to the Patricia Neal... you didn’t come to the Patricia Neal event.

SWITZER: No, I’m in and out of town a lot and I think I missed it.

HAY: When she walked in that door with the red carpet..

SWITZER: Oh, I know, I heard all about it. I work with Chip Banks so we keep up with everything that’s going on.

HAY: A collision of eras.

SWITZER: right.

HAY: Do you remember Gene Lutes?

SWITZER: Yes, and Atterbury, but I remember Miss Carey, the woman who took the tickets at the Capital. She’s the one that I remember… no he said that was Miss Bohannon, but I remember this one particular lady that took the tickets and of course they had ushers… the flashlights would take you to your seat, and if you put your feet up on the seat in front of you somebody complained they’d come whack your foot with the flashlight. Not that I ever did that.

HAY: Were any of your friends ushers?

SWITZER: no

HAY: It’s interesting as I’ve talked with people around town, how many 14 year old boys were ushers at the capital!

SWITZER: I don’t remember any. I guess I was just in awe of the uniform.

HAY: What was it like?

SWITZER: It was kind of like a bellhop thing. It seems to me.

HAY: Some people say that there were ushers here at the Grand and some say there weren’t.

SWITZER: I do not remember any ushers here.

HAY: My guess is that earlier – in the 40s there may have been ushers but then by the 50s and 60s there were none…

SWITZER: They gave up.

HAY: Nobody to tell people to keep their feet of the seats.

SWITZER: They didn’t care. [laughter]

HAY: The movies are such a wonderful escape from real life, aren’t they.

SWITZER: Yes they are.

HAY: and When I’ve talked to people how much those times… I guess that’s why we go to the movies and love them. Oh, I’ve got to talk to her, wait [Joanna sees someone outside and stops the camera for a few minutes, then returns.] You have plenty of stories… do you remember one particular movie you went to see at one point and who you went to see it with.

SWITZER: No, not one particular one, but any scary movie that there was… it seems like “The Thing” and the thing wasn’t really that scary, mama’s laughing, [mama is in the background] because I couldn’t ever really look at it because if you see the whole thing it’s really frightening so I watch like this [covers her eye with her hand – one finger apart] and I still do it. You can close it up real fast if it’s just too much for you. [laughing]

HAY: I do that too. What about any dates at the… going to the movies…

SWITZER: Oh yeah, LOTS of dates in High School.

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