Oral History Interview with Norman Moore

0: 1:00 -0: 2:00“Stories From the Balcony” Interviews about the Grand Theatre in Frankfort KentuckyInterview on Video with Norman Wayne MooreOn Location at the Grand TheatreTape 0025JTH_DVConducted by Joanna HayJanuary 11, 2007

This project has been supported by the Kentucky Oral History Commissionand Save The Grand Theatre, Inc.

BEGINNING OF TAPE 2

MOORE: They shot the arrow into the balloon and the balloon's falling and somebody said, "they've shot the arrow in the balloon, the balloon's falling" and that's my Aunt. Great big heavy-set woman. She leans back and, "ahhhhhhhhh" screams, that's my Aunt Virginia, she's in the picture show. But that's the way we'd jump in there do it. It was her and ah. I asked my wife, I said, I'd like to go over and watch Jack Lemon and Peter Falk play pool. So I go over two nights and just watched them. And the second night I was watching them, I even asked him. I kinda guys still stood back not saying nothing, I asked Jack Lemon, I said, "if you mind the girls"–guy at the pool room said the girls can't come in here and I asked Jack Lemon I said, "tell him to let them girls come in here". Cause the street was full of by that time, the street was full of women and girls and I said, I said something to Jack Lemon and he said, he hollered up there to the guy at the pool room that run it, he said, "let them come in". And they all come in. Course my sister ( ), so it's payback time for all the Grand Picture show's she took me to. We watched movie stars play pool. And whoever started the pool game, first ball, they won. There wasn't no missing. Most all actors are expert pool players, if you ever watched them, they pool, they play pool like you wouldn't believe. So I played pool there off and on when I see that play, I wasn't, I wasn't gonna waste my time, lord mercy.HAY: So Jack Lemon and Peter Faulk were at this pool room right here?MOORE: Across the street right there.HAY: Across the street, the same one where you'd meet your friends?MOORE: Two different nights. At nights, after they shot that movie all day, Jack Lemon and Peter Faulk you remember they played the villains in that movie. If you remember "The Great Race" they played villains. They had black outfits on and handlebar mustaches, they even showed it on the movie channel here just like last week I seen it. And I got it on tape. But they after a hard days work they liked to play pool, they come play pool. Cause we asked them we said, "what about Tony Curtis"? "Oh, he don't come play pool". Him and Natalie Woods was in that movie, they sat out to the motel, "they sit around and talk. They don't play pool". So you talk about some friendly guys, Peter Faulk and Jack Lemon. Is like I say, Peter Faulk's still alive and Jack's passed but you talk about next door neighbors is the way they treat you. Good old boys. Friendly as they can be to us. We just ornery kids in this town and they were just as nice as they can be to us.HAY: How old were you when that happened? Do you remember?MOORE: Yeah, ( ) I guess by how long I've been married, you're talking about, it'd been about, we got married, it'd been about, sixty-three, somewhere on in there, say sixty-three, sixty-four. Pretty close.HAY: So your wife let you go while she was in labor, to go meet the movie stars and play pool with them?MOORE: She did. That's how nice she was. Luckily she didn't have the baby that night. ( ) movie, maybe a few weeks but anyway we didn't know, when it would happen. But she let me go up there. I remember it as well as yesterday. I like stars and people made movies.HAY: Any other movie stars come to Frankfort that you can remember?MOORE: Not right off. My Daddy talked to–and bring him back into it. He worked at ( ) cause ( ) was just at City Hall here and then they moved over to the boat house and the boat house, say you go, as you first start down Holmes Street there on your right–the big brick building there now–well they moved over into the old bread plant, ( ) did. Don't know how come they moved, he owned that building. But he moved over there, it's a big brick building there and back then a train was busy and it was train yard back in behind there at ( ) Stadium. And they was making a movie and they shooting some scenery at the old depot again in the movie. And this was, I don't remember what movie it was but Daddy went over and sat and ate dinner and sat in a chair right next to him, at dinner there, eating a sandwich and it was Jack ( ). And Daddy said he was just as nice as he could be, we sat there and he talked to him, he walked up to him, weren't nobody else around, said "mind if I sit down and talk to you? Said I'm not a western fruit cake like a lot of people". And Jack says sit down and Daddy said he talked to him for a solid hour just seemed as him next door. A lot of people don't remember Jack ( ), he's the guy that would look at you and one eye would go the other way. Played in a lot of John Wayne westerns. He ain't been gone too long, just a few years ago. But he ended up being an awful big man. But he played probably in his first movie–and I remember in the movies–he probably played in his first movie was 'High Noon', when he walked in and told the, the guy that was in jail, in the bed, said, the shoot out was getting ready to happen at high noon. And he said, "get up and go home". And the guy said Sheriff, "is the bar still open"? He said, "Go home boy". That was Jack ( ) probably in his first movie and he played the guy that was ( ) in his cell. 'High Noon'.HAY: That's a famous movie.MOORE: Yep, it was.HAY: Yep, yep. So Frankfort in the 1940's. Very different from Frankfort downtown today.MOORE: Sure is.HAY: Yep.MOORE: Everybody would come to Frankfort. On a Saturday it was a really busy day.5: 09 [Interruption] HAY: Can you tell me her name I've got this turned on? MOORE: Alissa Meece and she sings and, she said, she's so fascinated, she liked to sing Loretta Lynn songs and she liked to sing Tammy Wynette's and Patsy Cline songs. So she wrote a letter to Lorretta Lynn after watching her movie and she was ten. And Lorretta Lynn said, "Honey if you're that enthused about it, come spend a day." And she invited her down last summer and they spent the whole–last summer, the summer before last, she's two years older now, she went down and spent the whole day with Lorretta Lynn, she came back and said, "Papaw, she's the nicest thing there ever was." She said, "She never did get out of a chair." I said, "She ain't got to no more." She said, "She sat and listened to me singing some, and so nice." But her name's Lissa and she'll also end up singing for a living cause she sings. . .HAY: Alissa?MOORE: Lissa. Alissa.HAY: AlissaMOORE: MeeceHAY: Meece. M-e-e-c-e? And how old is she now? She's twelve. And lives here in Frankfort?MOORE: And she's sang at Renfro Valley, down there when she was 10 and she is invited back to sing inside in Renfro Valley next time she goes. Cause she done worked her way up. But she sings in all the music halls in Ohio and Indiana and just singing everywhere. And she'll be singing here at– they got a new on they just opened up, like a couple, three weeks ago right there at the 127 light that you turn to go to ( ) into Lawrenceburg. What's the name of the place Mama?UNIDENTIFIED: Flea market.HAY: Flea market.MOORE: It's just a flea market. She's gonna be singing there probably in about three weeks. They got her booked in a couple of weeks to sing. So people will have to watch and find out but she'll be singing there. Like I say she's got a little problems right now with ( ) but she'll be singing there in–but when you hear her, it's just fascinating. Make sure she ( ) . We put on music and played all our lives but we're just, people were doing it but she's going be end up doing it for a living.HAY: She's really good.MOORE: Oh, make you cry she's so good.HAY: Sounds like, well your family is very musical and, and everybody appreciates film and of course that's kind of the arts really.7: 27MOORE: Yeah, both my granddaughters already play guitar. And I learned her how to play but the other granddaughter plays guitar too. And Chelsea. Chelsea plays guitar too. Yeah, we're musics. Guitars, like in my TV room the guitars are sitting there, there's also the cowboy pictures and films but we all play music too and the guitars there are plugged up for anyone that comes in.HAY: Well I loved how you described all your friends inside the theater and I loved how you described your favorite row, did you say it was like the 7th row or so?MOORE: Oh yeah. I didn't like to get real close. Like I said, my cousin sat right down there in front. I tried a couple of times, make your head hurt. Cause the picture your looking right straight up at it and it's just, monstrous size. And I like to go back about the 7th row in the middle and I like to sit right next to the–it be nice you could sit there and get up real easy. But I like to go in just a little bit. Sort of get like in almost the middle of the screen where I could really enjoy what I'm watching. Course you had to get up and go get something you had to stomp over a bunch of people but it's pretty nice.HAY: So when you came back into this building for the first time in, forty years did it just, what memories came back?MOORE: First thing it almost makes you want to cry when you walk into a building you ain't been into most of your life, it's been a long time ago. And I went in there, I couldn't believe that the ceiling the stuff was still there. Of course, I think I told your boss, whoever the guy I talked to that night. After we got married we come back here into The Grand and bought our furniture for our living room. It was sad even then. I took her right in there–Polly my wife never come to The Grand much–but we walked back here and made the same turn we went into where the theater was, cause they leveled it up and we bought a, I bought her a living room suit here. We got married–I remember as well as yesterday–and I bought a living room suit here, a leather couch and two leather chairs, the tables and I think–if I remember, I don't remember–I bought the lights or did we go across the street and buy the lights? I think I bought everything here. Might have bought the lamps here but I think we bought everything here and went across the street to the furniture store and bought the lamps. And I remember as well as yesterday and it was back in, probably the seventies, living room suit twelve hundred dollars if I remember.HAY: You spent twelve hundred dollars?MOORE: Yeah, living room suit, yeah. ( )HAY: So, The Grand became a furniture store after it closed as a theater?MOORE: Yeah, it was sad for me but we come in here and bought our furniture and course we shopped in other stores but we end up finding what we liked right here. And I told my wife then, I said...it's sad, sad for me, cause this used to be where I...hung out, at The Grand. And but that's what fascinated me when I walked in, see I didn't know the ceiling and I never had been up in the lobby and he took me up in the lobby that night two years ago and the lobby is the same as yesterday, same in ( )HAY: Do you mean the balcony?MOORE: Yeah. We went up there and everything is the same, the carpet the ( ) like it was down here. Everything. The seats. The seats are gone. But the walls and the hall and the hall is still the same as it was back in 1940. A lot of people don't know that. It's upstairs. They didn't even tear it up. They didn't rip it off. It's there.HAY: It hasn't been changed a speck.MOORE: It ain't been changed. I mean me and Connie went up there. Connie ( ). It almost made us cry. I remembered, you walk out there right now look up at the ceiling you'll see big horns, holes in the ceiling, big ( ) air went out and in and speakers or whatever. I don't even know what they are. Them great big huge things. It's all still the same. I thought all of it was gone, it wasn't, it was just covered up and hid. Fascinating, fascinating to me.HAY: Did you ever go in the balcony in the old days?MOORE: No, you weren't allowed to go upstairs. No. Down here. There's always somebody who ( ) let you do something you didn't supposed to do. No I never did that, even run up the stairs. I seen some kids run up there and back but just of a short distance. No. No. HAY: Well. . .MOORE: Back when I was a kid and I come here, they took the white, the African Americans went upstairs and the white kids downstairs, that's back the way it was back in the thirties, forties.HAY: [agrees]11: 43HAY: I'm going to take you back, back into the theater. Were you here about a year ago?MOORE: ( ) like you said, it was two years ago I think.HAY: Because you'll see something else you recognize in there.MOORE: See I was gonna come back and buy a ticket to the thing you all had a few weeks ago but I fooled around when I called you it's all been took care of. But I had friends who come.HAY: Was that for one of the, was that. . .MOORE: The movie stars.HAY: When for, when Patricia Neal came?MOORE: Yeah I got a whole lot of her tapes. Yeah, I'd like to see her. But I fooled around. I was busy. Waited too late. I checked and it was sold out. But I had a cousin who come and he told me all about what happened.HAY: She was amazing.MOORE: I know.HAY: I'm just gonna adjust your mic one more time. You're doing great.MOORE: I move around a lot. I got arms. I got arms bothering me. I hurt something in my shoulder three or four weeks ago. . .HAY: And it's sort of, yeah. . .MOORE: Yeah, it's hurting the ( )HAY: Yeah I just got it, remember it's got right there. . .MOORE: That's why I keep moving my arms. That's why I keep moving my arms. I got an arm problem.HAY: Do you remember, do you remember Patricia Neal's movies?MOORE: Oh yeah, Oh yeah. I remember a lot of movies she made and 'Hud', different ones. Yeah some good movies. Really good movies. She was a top of the line actress.HAY: Well she was just a treat when she came here. She walked in those doors, we had a red carpet for her. She was right there. Came in, and she was as gracious as could possibly be.MOORE: Well see, I never, I never figured out something till that happened–and it was just a few weeks ago. I didn't realize the boy that played in the 'Hud'. And you might not know it. The boy played in the 'Hud', that had a bad car wreck a few years ago–that was the little blonde headed boy. He was the same boy that played in 'Shane' and I never know that till this happened a few weeks ago, cause we've talked about two or three different people. And somebody said, "Do you, did you know the little boy that played in the 'Hud'?" One got his brother and brought him home, Daddy wants to ( ) and all this kind of stuff. And he looked to be in that movie, seventeen, eighteen, just a kid. Just got his license I'd say. Well he was the little boy that hollered, "Shane, Shane, I love you!" The same little boy.13: 39HAY: That was the little boy!MOORE: Never know it till this happened here at The Grand a few weeks ago. Me and three other people was talking. And my cousin–or somebody told me, said, "you know the little boy that was in 'Hud'?" And I said, after somebody says it, he's face was the same and after you think, yes that's him. That's him.HAY: I'm, I'm looking over here right now at the poster. Do you see the poster of 'Hud' on the wall there? MOORE: Yeah.HAY: And is it....I can see Brandon De Wilde is that the name?MOORE: I can't see it. Mama can you see it?HAY: Let me get you that poster. You can see it.MOORE: He was about nineteen. He's a little blonde headed, cute little boy, it's was like it, he's just real young.HAY: Brandon De Wilde? Was that his name or was it. . .MOORE: See I don't remember.HAY: Martin Ritt?MOORE: I don't remember unless I went back in the ( ) of 'Shane' to find out for sure. HAY: Yeah we'd have to look cause that Bra. . . MOORE: Ah ha, yeah see, I never did really know his name. HAY: But that's the same blonde haired?MOORE: Yeah, but in 'Shane' see that was the only movie anybody had ever seen him in. Then, then that came along, you talk about 'Shane' he was probably, seven years old in that maybe. Then you come along and you see him and he's sixteen, you don't know it's him. And somebody said yeah, that was him and then I got thinking of his face and looking, I said yeah. There's a movie right over there that you all have got a poster of that's one of my favorite movies too. And I like them kind of movies too.14: 59HAY: Which movie is that?MOORE: [points] That one over there.HAY: 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'?MOORE: Yeah, I like out of space movies. And I got a lot of them too.HAY: Patricia Neal was in that. . . MOORE: Yeah.HAY: 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'.MOORE: Yeah, cause that's what I say, she played a lot of good movies. And that's, I love westerns but I like them movies they showed back ( ). If you'd seen a few of them here too the UFO movies and stuff. I like them too. I didn't like 'Frankenstein' but the UFO movies, 'The Day the Earth Stood Still', it wasn't too scary, but it was a good movie. The robot was fascinating back then, them days. They talk about that one time, they talk a lot there on the movie channels. Fascinating how they made it look good then. And that was made a long time ago. Yep, that was something else. I got a lot of western posters. See I forgot to tell you, my brothers boy run the picture shows here in Frankfort like, I don't know, how long Mama? Fifteen years? David Wayne Moore. He was the boss of both pictures shows and took care of them for years so I got all the Clint Eastwood's and 'Tombstone' posters and stuff, I got all of them cause when they went out there on the bill board out front and had the lights behind them, you see through them, you know Clint Eastwood and I got all them at the house rolled up in rollers. And he saved me all the posters that they were just going to throw in the trash, you know after the westerns. I got the ones Clint Eastwood's made in the last few years and 'Tombstone' and Jessie James and stuff, they made during the last few years. After 'Dances with Wolves' come back, Kevin Costner brought the western's back and 'Dances with Wolves' and they said he was a crazy person when he done it. It wouldn't be nothing now if it wasn't for him. And anybody ain't seen it, 'Open Range' is one of the best westerns, I've probably ever seen in my life. It's one of the best gun fights in any westerns ever made is 'Open Range', Kevin Costner. And something else he done in that western a lot of people don't pay much attention to it but when they built a town, the windows or the window glass back in the seventeenth century, pay attention, a lot of people don't pay no attention. You can't see through a window glass back in them days. You can't see through a window glass was made back then, looks like you're looking through a pan of water or somebody shaking it. And Kevin Costner brought the westerns back and that's good of him. But I don't care what they done, ain't nobody made one as good as his yet. Even his buddy, couldn't hold a candle to his. And it's, Dances with Wolves, Open Range. And Clint Eastwood made a good western. ( ). There ain't be a lot here lately but they don't, they ain't got the...they ain't got it like that Open Range movie. HAY: Do you remember...when...The Grand closed? Do you remember the news about that? In the sixties when it closed, do remember feeling, what you felt about that?MOORE: Yeah, oh, yeah. But, it's terrible. But what gets me, is like I said a while ago, I got the satellite dish and The Dish Network and it shows all the towns in the places right now and right now, I wouldn't have known it. But everywhere a lot of people didn't tear the picture shows up. They just set there...and might like a furniture store, made it into something else but it's still there. And now they all coming back, the old picture shows of the building tore up like the Capitol's gone, that's the end of that. It's like I said a while ago, I helped tear it down, I was working for Chester Moore. I helped load up bricks and dump trucks and sold them to people. The point of it is, The Grand leased the buildings here, and there it is. And, and it's, it's just to me it...everybody that hung around here when we was kids ought to come back...and enjoy. Fascinating to me. And I don't know, it's like your favorite mutt died and here he is, come back alive. You know how we liked our little dogs as kids.19: 04HAY: It's true. You're right.MOORE: It's where you used to hang around. It's almost like a second home, in a way. I know I done it two years ago, I stood around here a couple of hours and ( ) with tear eyes, cause it was coming back. Pictures fascinating, just looking at it. You take on a Saturday that rack was full of bicycles...it's plum full of bicycles. And back then you didn't see no locks and chains on them bicycles and bicycles ( ). Like I said, I can ride my ( ) motorcycle over there and parked it there but I don't think I'd have lasted very long, I probably got a ticket for riding that thing down the street with a motor on it.HAY: [Laughing]MOORE: But you can ride 90cc's now, if I'd had a license, the, the police would have arrested me back then cause I invented something that wasn't supposed to be invented. So I hid it over in the bushes, behind ( ). It's always there when I went back.HAY: Yeah, he's looking at this picture of The Grand, with the Laurel and Hardy on the marquee and there's a, there's a bike rack, a wooden bicycle rack with, oh about four, four bicycles sitting in it right, right in front of the movie theater.MOORE: As it got busier, I remember it being a whole bunch more bicycle racks. But it be enough for sometime for two or three. I think they got one turned around there, I can't see it behind it. I can't see what this is setting on up the street here. I don't understand, I don't see see what this is.HAY: This looks like, are you talking about the pick-up truck? The pick-up truck sort of has a, has a, has a rack.MOORE: Huh?HAY: Like it has a rack on the back.MOORE: Yeah, yeah, that's what it looks like. But I think it's another bicycle rack turned around the other way. If you see that white, looks like a white board on it?HAY: [Agrees]MOORE: See it looks like ( ) turned the other way.HAY: You're right. Like in an "L".MOORE: Cause I mean they parked a lot of bicycles there on a busy, weekend. It be a bunch of bikes there.HAY: So there is no way that this picture was taken on a Saturday just because. . .MOORE: Oh no, oh no.HAY: There's, they would've been, those bike racks would've been full on a Saturday.MOORE: Oh yeah, somebody just along and took that picture on just an ordinary weekday. But on the count of, if that was on a Saturday that would be just cramped full of bicycles. You got to realize, kids come from everywhere on bicycles. I mean I know'd a boy that drove a bicycle plum from Bridgeport. ( ) rode a bike and he'd ride a bike plum from Bridgeport, David ( ) would. And ( ) picture show he ride all the way from Bridgeport out there where I lived.HAY: That's about. . .MOORE: Seven miles.HAY: Seven miles.MOORE: He'd ride a bicycle. That's a lot of people rode bicycles.HAY: Do you see those, that line going across there with the little, with lights?MOORE: Yeah.HAY: Is that what those are?MOORE: Yeah, yeah.HAY: And look up there too.MOORE: Oh yeah. That there is...they put them all the way through town and sometimes they left them up. They're Christmas lights. They're Christmas bulbs. It wasn't nothing to do with ( ). If you look at them real deeply, towards the Capitol you'd see another row of them. And sometimes the Christmas lights got left up. And that's what they are, they're Christmas bulbs. Back in the old days...I still got some of them ( ) bulbs. They still work. But they're Christmas lights and sometimes they didn't take them down. That's exactly what they are. ( ) pictures on up this way. ( ) and on down towards the Capitol, I think I see another row. I think the Christmas lights are still up. And I don't know what that picture up there, supposed to be, I guess that was 1947, the flood, cause the water is at The Grand. So it'd have to be the biggest flood we've ever here, had here on the top picture. Was 1947, I don't know if it says on there. I see a picture down there on the wall, it said, I don't know what they got the number there it says, two, eight. But it might be something under it. But that has to be the forty-seven flood, so that's, Daddy talked about it, 1947. Course I was a kid. But I don't remember, the water. But Daddy had pictures. And he, they wasted, they wasted a whole day, the whole town shut down and they got in boats and helped, helped people. And Daddy, worked all day that day...on a...boat, helping people. Everybody jumped in and helped the one got flooded. You take ( ) over at City Hall and it didn't flood but the Shell and all that down there in the Second Street school yard, all that flooded. I, I got pictures all in them Frankfort books. And it has to be 1947 at the top. And if a flood was up here right at the front entrance walking in, it had to been water down there in the lower part of The Grand...come up the sewers, it had to, the drains, you ever see them? 23: 34HAY: [agrees]MOORE: So it shows the water ( ) and the boat right at The Grand Theater. So you talk about down in there, down in the hole...it had to been water.HAY: It must've been.MOORE: Now the last time I was here the floor was level in there, they ever, is it still level? Ok.HAY: It hadn't changed. It's coming out, in a month or two, it'll start coming out.MOORE: Back in old days they didn't have it but you take right now, a bobcat in there–I used to run them, I run a bobcat just a few years ago...I can't run them now, I'm too old. But a bobcat will clean that out there in just no time. Take it right out the back on a rug, make a ski and take it right out and dump it in the truck. Back in the old days there wasn't nothing invented like that but that little bobcat would this thing, it'd clean that out there on one Saturday.HAY: I think that's gonna be happening in the next few months.MOORE: I said a bobcat would clean it up in one day.HAY: We'll go back and look at that because the. . .MOORE: When they dig that hole out that's gonna be fascinating to me. That level floor just don't do it for me.HAY: No. Cause it doesn't look like you remember.MOORE: Oh, I can't feel it. HAY: It's completely changed.MOORE: I can't feel it, till I start down that hole, I got to, feel it.HAY: Well the difference is, you know they put that dropped ceiling in there, like when the furniture store came. But all that lower floor changed but the balcony, is, was just, has just been sitting there. . . MOORE: But see Polly ( ). But Polly never come to The Grand as kids I don't think, did you? I don't think she did.HAY: No.MOORE: But when I walked up to the balcony, see that's telling you what it looked like down here, it was just...The Grand picture show was, they took pride in the way it looked, it was a pretty place. To me it was just, beautiful. I remember like big curtains and stuff hanging you know and everything was like red, burgundy. See it was always a dark...color. It ain't no real loud–like the carpets was a loud red. Then they had it up there, back there in the back where you put your hands up there was loud. And here and there but back in there where the picture show was, hanging down was, looked like great big burgundy drapes. And like you got, like you have them in the living room, the wrinkles in them. It's just beautiful.HAY: It was like a, it, it had a magic feeling to it, when you came to it.MOORE: I don't know picture shows just does it to you. I don't know, I just love picture shows. HAY: Yeah.MOORE: See, I'm still that way right now. I mean, if I was home tonight I'd be watching a, a western or I'd turn on ( ). That's just who I am. Something on I like I go throw a tape in. DVD or something. I know they come out on DVD's, I didn't think I'd ever get me one cause I'd done had, made all the westerns on tapes. Then I bought me a DVD player and done got me a burner to burn, take them off tapes and put them on records. Then I'd say, here a few years ago, I said, I'm never buying them DVD's and, one day I thought I'd go buy one now, and ( ) weeks passed and I had ( ).HAY: [Laughing] And now you're hooked on DVD's.26: 15MOORE: Yeah, oh yeah. I bought everything Walmart says, sells, if it's in an old Western, I got it.HAY: What's the difference between watching, a cowboy movie in a theater verses watching it at home?MOORE: The sound. The sound. The sound, it's like you are really there. Yeah, the sound.

0: 3:00 -0: 4:00and I’ll tell you, talking about going to picture shows, after me and Polly got married, I went and took the kids, they wanted to go see Jaws. (…) but back then when Jaws came out, Jaws 1, and I was trying to think, I took them out to the picture show, I guess out…I’m trying to think where it was…right behind 32 Flavors, I think. Back in the alley behind the Krogers back in there. Picture shows in there now. And where did I spend my time at when Jaws was on? In the lobby, smoking. ‘Cause, I told her, the lights and the noise was so loud, I couldn’t stand it. And I didn’t watch it. And, I don’t like movies like that anyway. Don’t see no sense in watching something like that. Who wants to watch somebody get ate up by a shark? It’s a joke. So I sat in the lobby and smoked then. Then, pictures shows to me were…like I said awhile ago, my nephew ran the picture shows. And he told me, “anytime you want to go, anytime you want to come.” I went and watched every western that’s been made in the last few years. Didn’t cost me a nickel because my family was running it. He’d tell me, “No, you ain’t buying it.” He’d pay it. He’d save me my posters. But, I’d watch…he’d call and say “the westerns are coming out, Forgiven, that Clint Eastwood’s making.” He’d say, “It’s a good one.” And I went, and he gave me the posters and everything that they had out on the marquee. I’ve got Tombstone, and a whole bunch of posters over the last few years. Around the ‘80’s or ‘90’s that they made. He started working pictures when he was just a kid. He worked up here for years. And run both of them. He’s the manager of both picture shows.

HAY: And that was up…

MOORE: Yeah. Somewhere up north. He told me he had to go to Michigan or somewhere when the bosses invited him up there. That owned the picture shows. And he said they would have parties for the ones that were running the picture shows from all over the country. He done that for a long time.

HAY: So, you were saying that the sound is very different.

MOORE: Oh yeah.

HAY: You’d get the bigger sound in the theatre. And what about the size of the pic…the images?

MOORE: Oh yeah. I always like the size of the picture because it’s so big. Yeah. The kids got a big screen TV, but really I don’t care about it. I like the picture shows. And you trying to make a picture show in your house, but it ain’t going to do it. [Laughter] Not unless you get a thirty foot wall. I don’t care what they find. It’d be a long time.

HAY: You’re right.

MOORE: The kids that got them wall screens…

HAY: [Agrees]

MOORE: and I like the picture shows. I ain’t got no great big TV. I’ve got a nice one, but I don’t care nothing for the wall screen TV.

HAY: What about when you’ve got an audience? Does that change the way…when you’re sitting with a lot of other people watching it together…

MOORE: My problem is ain’t too many people wants to watch it too much with me because I talk through a lot of that stuff. Talking about when it happened. It’s funny how you watch stuff, and stuff they do. And I catch all the little things they do that they’re not supposed to do.

HAY: The mistakes?

MOORE: Yeah Yeah

HAY: When you see something enough, you see all the mistakes.

MOORE: Yeah [Laughter] On the movie Eggs and I, there’s a movie that Pa Kettle that lived next door, like I said they weren’t called Ma Kettle. It was about a chicken farmer over in the Carolinas, and that woman who went and interviewed them and wrote the movie…she got sued over making that movie by two or three farmers that raised chickens over there ‘cause she made fun of them. But, it’s just the way it was. Chickens in the house and stuff. Like Ma Kettles. And she went over and did a story on it, and in that movie their dog…her husband gets a dog and brings it in. Supposed to be vicious. And the dog comes up behind her and she halls off and turns left, and it snapped it real quick, but it shows her in the movie turning right. It’s the same scene. I said, “Look! She turned left to see the dog.” Roll it back and watch it again. She turns left, but yet the movie blinks it real quick and she really turns right. And it’s a mess up that they put in the tape and it’s still there. It’s on tape. I could show it to somebody. It’s in the movie. I got it out at WalMart. It’s Eggs and I, and it was a…I’m trying to think who stars in it…I can’t think. It’s a guy…the husband who played in it was from My Three Sons, and made Blubber, and all these movies Disney made.

HAY: Fred McMurray.

MOORE: Yeah, Fred McMurray starred in it. He looked to be about twenty-three years old. Fred McMurray and the woman who wrote it is a…can’t think of her name right off. She played in the B movies with John Wayne and everybody. She wrote the story. It comes on and she’s riding down the road in the train, and the guy who was bringing her dinner dropped the egg on the floor. And that’s the movie. But…and that’s one of my favorite movies. Eggs and I. And Ma and Pa Kettle was their next door neighbors. The audience was so fascinated with Ma and Pa Kettle they kept writing letters in, so they made the Ma and Pa Kettle films. And like I said, a lot of people thought there was hundreds of them, like John Wayne or Roy Rogers movies, two or three hundred. And they only made thirteen of Ma and Pa Kettle. And anybody can order them. They are on the internet. All you have to do is tap it in: Ma and Pa Kettle, and it comes up. MGM still sells them. I’ve got a Ma and Pa Kettle tape ordered right now off the satellite.

HAY: Is that right?

MOORE: Yeah

HAY: What years were those made?

MOORE: In the ‘30’s

HAY: ‘30’s? Yep. I’m going to go ahead and pause this for a second.

0: 5:00 -0: 6:00MOORE: Yeah, it cost too much. If you go into the picture show, the lights ain’t on anyway.

HAY: You know, I’m going to leave…this is going to record your voice. I thought we could walk back there. I’m going to come back and do these. And I’m going to get you to put your jacket on because there’s no heater.

MOORE: Oh, ok.

HAY: There’s no heat on back there. But I want you to see the wall. The color of the wall that you can see back there now.

MOORE: Bad shoulder first.

HAY: It’s going to be cold in here, but…

MOORE: I don’t mind. It’s not that bad.

HAY: Got colder up there…heat on…

MOORE: Yeah, it’s cold, but it don’t seem like it is. Supposed to be one more warm day tomorrow.

HAY: One more warm day? Now this is going to be cold in here.

MOORE: Should I (…) or do you want to leave it closed?

HAY: Yeah, let’s leave it closed.

MOORE: Ok ‘cause it’ll be wasting heat.

HAY: This is what I wanted to show you. Do you see the side walls there?

MOORE: Ok, yeah. They didn’t have them before. Sort of got the Egypt look.

HAY: Like scrolls…

MOORE: Yeah, like Egypt. I remember it now. But, you’ve got to realize…it had to be…like I said, the stage was red, red carpet. But it had great big burgundy like sheets, and you could see how high the ceiling was. I ain’t seeing what I seen before. Let’s see. Yeah. I can’t figure out what they’ve done.

HAY: Well, we’ve hung these blankets here just to absorb the sound when they would do music and stuff.

MOORE: And this here’s been put in since I was here.

HAY: Let me put this light on.

MOORE: You can see it plumb to the ceiling. They’ve got something up there too.

HAY: You’ll see. That’s the balcony.

MOORE: I see the balcony. Oh, on up there. I see where I was at. Yeah, that’s where I was at was on up there. I’m looking to see what’s going on here. I can’t hardly tell. Yeah, here’s what I put in. I’m going to need to look at that.

HAY: Now you can see where we are.

MOORE: Yeah, you’re talking about the big horns up there. I call them horns. It was ventilation, but you’re talking about great big, folded, wrinkly, burgundy like curtains plumb from the ceiling come down on the sides. Wrinkled.

HAY: On the side walls?

MOORE: On both sides. Wrinkly. Beautiful. It’s a shame that ain’t nobody got a picture. Nothing.

HAY: (…)

MOORE: Yeah, it’s just like they’ve got in yours. See you’ve got a great big picture window in your house…I’m talking about (…). In your living room. Your picture window is from here to let’s say over here. About burgundy, and what this done, what this done, it was in wrinkles. Yes, it was in wrinkles. Just like you have your burgundy curtains. It was like if there was a fan blowing, you could see them move just a little bit. And they weren’t that thick. But they were burgundy and they went plumb up there in wrinkles.

HAY: So you think they went along that whole blue section there?

MOORE: That whole wall. They hung from the ceiling down. The Capitol was made the same way. You talk about fancy! There were wrinkles in it. Just like you’d have on a real expensive pair of curtains.

HAY: And were there curtains up around the screen?

MOORE: I’m trying to remember now. Let me go back down. It’s like the screen was that whole back wall. Because you could walk around behind it. There was a door there and a door there, you know what I’m saying? Sometimes they opened it. And, I’m trying to remember. The stage down there…you could walk right below the…you could walk right below. There was a…trying to remember…yeah. You’ve got to remember now, the picture show was built on an old stage and the old stage was still there. ‘Cause like I said, when they came to put that show on that night, they had a curtain they pulled over the screen and they set up tables here like that up there, and they were selling stuff. Like plates. And if I remember, I’m talking about back in the…it had to have been in the ‘50’s. Like Tupperware. Like a Tupperware party. Somebody rented it, you know what I’m saying? And I remember coming with Momma, but the stage came out there about where you see the stage…not in a real bar. It didn’t come out much, but there was a stage there that the screen was on. There was a stage of the old thing, and people could walk out there. And they had the great big burgundy curtains that they closed.

HAY: [Agrees]

MOORE: It’s hard to figure it out. You could almost tell how it was fixed by how the ceiling runs out. Just about where the burgundy curtains was, wasn’t it? That’s about how deep the stage was, wasn’t it?

HAY: Yep

MOORE: That’s just about how deep the stage was, was justabout…really wasn’t that deep. That’s just about where the burgundy curtains was. I think the screen was more back against the wall. The screen was on the wall, wasn’t it?

HAY: On the back?

MOORE: The screen was on the wall.

HAY: Yeah

MOORE: The screen was on the wall. And they had the steps here at the stage more like back here. Of course the wall went on over to that outside wall. The picture show went on over. There wasn’t rooms here. That wall over there was the wall. So this room’s been built since then, hasn’t it?

HAY: Yes

MOORE: They had little ones. Red. Exits at the doors back then.

HAY: Ok

MOORE: But the curtain…this was the stage. That’s just how wide the stage was. It was about that wide. You’re talking about stage (…) wide. But the picture show screen was on that wall.

HAY: Yeah

MOORE: The picture show was on that wall. The screen was on that wall. The show picked up the sound speakers back here like this. But, the screen was back there on that wall. Definitely. I don’t remember ever going out those doors, but on the outside of this wall here, on the outside of this wall, they advertised what was on the picture show too.

HAY: Ohhh

MOORE: ‘Cause the Star was right across…

HAY: Ohhh, they had to compete.

MOORE: Yeah, they advertised what was on at The Grand out there.

HAY: They had to compete, didn’t they?

MOORE: Yeah

HAY: So you remember those designs on the walls?

MOORE: Oh, yeah. Yeah, after I saw them. I (…) reminds me of like Roman did that. Like you see on the chariots. The curly curl, like you see on the chariots. I don’t know where they got the idea from. What they were supposed to represent. Almost looks like an ale or something doesn’t it?

HAY: One would think they must be over here. When we take this wall off, the same thing.

MOORE: Probably so, yeah.

HAY: Probably so. And look back here. There’s another path and I don’t know if you remember.

0: 7:00 -0: 8:00MOORE: You know the colors that I was talking about. Now, let me remind you how these things was fixed. Your old legs were here. These were old legs. This come up to about, I remember when I got to be twelve or thirteen, more like this. You’d come up. And this was a wall here to there. But it only came up about this high. There were seats here. You could reach over and tap somebody on the head. Seats went right up to this. But right here, this was open. Now let me remember where it was. You had the entrance going down on this side so it would have been along here. The walkway. You had a row of seats on each side. Over there and over here. You’ve got one-two-three-four-five-six. About six would have been about all there could have been. Then you walked down this aisle straight to the stage right down there. Walk around the front of the seats. You had one here and one over there. And from here, I’m talking about this leg, from here over here, you could lean on this and sit here and watch the whole movie. But, it’s about like this, a ladder top, here on this thing. Yeah, it’s like (…) top on it. ‘Course it’s all hanged with pretty curtains and material. Everything had material on it. Then you walked down this straight to the stage, course when you took off in here, you went down hill fast. You talk about deep. How deep? I can’t even imagine. Does anybody got any idea how deep this is?

HAY: No, not yet.

MOORE: Talk about looking up. That screen’s a monster. I can’t imagine. Seven, eight feet?

HAY: Probably

MOORE: At least. And like I said, this is the same thing here. You could lean over here. People sitting over here.

HAY: Was it a railing?

MOORE: It was built in. It was like solid wood or solid blocks. And it was as wide as this. Come right across through here, and like I said it was like padding with like cotton under it or…and you could lean here and spend your whole day here. Simple. You could lean here and it wouldn’t hurt you. A ladder. And over here at this other end, you’d come in and the other…yep…and right along here was the other wall that went down this way. But you had a row of seats over here, a whole bunch in the middle…How many was in the middle? I don’t know. I’ll give you some idea. You could walk in here. The seats are just about this wide here. And how many would there have been? Just like you’ve got out there. It’d be one-two-three-four-five-six…about six, seven, no more. About six really. And it had a narrow aisle about this wide. Red carpet. Then these seats here you’re talking about one-two…that’s just how you went in there…three-four…just like I’m doing…five-six-seven-eight-nine-ten-eleven…looks like eleven, twelve seats here in the middle. Maybe thirteen. Then there’s just a short little bit over there. It’s like four or five sit there. Then you had a narrow aisle. The aisles weren’t probably much bigger than that table. It went plumb up to the stage. Nobody has a picture do they? That’s a big bunch of iron looking stuff there, isn’t it?

HAY: Yeah, look at that balcony.

0: 9:00 -0: 10:00MOORE: Let’s see how it was made.

HAY: Look at this beam here. Look at the height of that beam.

MOORE: Yeah, see I didn’t pay no attention to that. That was all there. That’s all when we was…

HAY: Might have been covered up.

MOORE: I don’t know. Well, what have they done since they have been back? Took away the…I can’t remember. Is that all the wider that was is just that wide there?

HAY: No, it goes all the way…that’s the front and then it goes all the way back.

MOORE: I know, but that ain’t the way it was is it? They’ve changed this. Huh?

HAY: No, that was the way it was. Now, this would have never been exposed.

MOORE: Now, somebody brought us up. We went upstairs and walked down a big long hall, and showed us where our seats were. But, I’m getting confused. What is this opening here that I’m looking at?

HAY: I think it must have had some other covering on it.

MOORE: I know. But this ain’t the…what is it? The hall?

HAY: It’s the balcony.

MOORE: It’s still called the balcony. It’s part of the breezeway. The walkway, isn’t it?

HAY: No, that’s behind. The walkway is behind that beam.

MOORE: This is where the people sit?

HAY: [Agrees]

MOORE: He took us up there and it was like this big wooden ply board floor, or something. Got to go up there. It’s fascinating. It isn’t that cold in here, I don’t think.

HAY: It’s warmer isn’t it.

MOORE: It’s nice in here.

UNIDENTIFIED: Oh, it feels warm now, after you come out of…

HAY: It’s not as cold as it was back there.

UNIDENTIFIED: Yep

MOORE: Can you imagine how many years it’s been? See, nobody was ever on this side of the building. Everything is over on the other side.

HAY: Because the concession stand was right on this side.

MOORE: I’m trying to think…you come in there. Yeah, the concession stand was out on the distance. It was out there by that door up there by that concrete. That was the lobby.

HAY: Could’ve been.

MOORE: We’re sitting in the lobby is what we’re doing. We’re sitting outside. And the doors were right along here. Somewhere. There’s so much to figure out here. Doors were about in here. The lobby was about that deep. When you’re a kid…you’ve got to remember, we were little bitty kids. Makes things seem bigger. The doors when you went through was as big as those windows. But, I say right along here was the big doors, about at the window…here. ‘Course all the time you were walking up. Then you leveled out. Then you walked level back there and you went to the candy counter. You talk about it’s a whole lot closer than you think. And this lobby, you went into this lobby, so the doors were there. It’s a pretty good distance. But, you almost could…if somebody would know the colors. If someone could tell you if they could think back. That goes down under the floor what…?

HAY: There’s a basement. There’s a lower level under there.

MOORE: For the time being, that ought to have been stuck under the bundle of insulation.

HAY: I think it’s an old floor.

MOORE: Yeah, but that wastes your heat for the time being.

HAY: Yeah, that’s true.

MOORE: That could be fixed with that foam…anything, for temporary. And you’d come in here and like I said, the concession stand and candy stuff, and you went over to that other wall and turned and that’s where the office was.

HAY: Ok

MOORE: You came in here and got your candy and stuff, and you went on over plumb to that wall and you walked down that hall.

HAY: Then you walked down that hall.

MOORE: It’s hard to figure it all out when it’s all gone.

HAY: They’re going to get rid of this new stuff.

MOORE: Yeah. What’s this stuff here? This was offices or something?

HAY: This was left over from the Morris Realty. Morris Realty did this. We didn’t do this.

MOORE: I see. The first door was gone. The first door you walked back just like you did to the picture show, then you turned where it is, and that’s where the furniture was.

HAY: Do you remember the Morris Realty and Auction House?

MOORE: Oh, no. Never came down here. Only came down to the furniture store and bought furniture.

HAY: Ok. Now, before we run out of tape, I’m going to put…I’m going to take a picture of each one of these right here.

MOORE: Ok

HAY: Let’s see…get a good…

[Still pictures recorded of Moore’s collection]

MOORE: Yeah. Collection and all that other kind of stuff. Kids…put all that on tape.

HAY: That’s really good. So these are your sister, you, your brother and cousins.

MOORE: Uh huh. Two of my cousins down there in front.

HAY: Ok

MOORE: I put the little Indian beads on it.

HAY: Ok, so tell me about the beads.

MOORE: These little Indian beads. My daughter saw them on there yesterday and she said, “Oh, Daddy they are womens.” I said, “No, they are Indian beads.” She said, “Yeah, but women use them.” I said, “Well, I am too, I guess.” And I put them on there. I kind of like them. Me and my granddaughter put them on. I put one side on and I said, “Now, copy the other side.” And I have to say, she did it just the same. I like it ‘cause it’s easy, and I’m Cherokee Navaho. Scottish and Irish. And I’m proud of it. I like westerns, but I’m half Indian. I’m glad I know. It’s what my Mama and Papa has told me on both sides, that the Moore’s are Blackfoots and the (…) are Cherokees. And the Irish men and Scottish men married the Indian women back in the old days. They’d come over to trap and hunt, and they’d end up marrying women that belonged to the Indian villages. People should know that because it’s in the books. My brother checked it out, and it’s all actual facts. People can get on the internet and can go about finding who your family is now. He went back to the 17th Century. Long time. 1500’s, and found out all that. I’m glad to put this…telling what I’d done at The Grand. I enjoyed telling it. If anybody remembers that stuff, I would bring back the good old days. That’s about it.

0: 11:00 -0: 12:00END OF INTERVIEW