“Stories From the Balcony”
Interviews about the Grand Theatre in Frankfort Kentucky
Interview on Video with Van Warren
On Location at the Grand Theatre
Conducted by Joanna Hay
November 6, 2006
This project has been supported by the Kentucky Oral History Commission
and Save The Grand Theatre, Inc.
HAY: First thing, can you tell me your name and the year you were born and where
you were born.WARREN: OK, my name is Vincent Warren, but I go by Van, my middle name is
Vanarsdell, [he says vanarsdale—need to check spelling] now very few people have ever known that, so your secret is coming out [laughing]. I was born in 1933, April 14. I was born in Frankfort, Kentucky, I was born on High Street, but I spent most of my life and time on the �South Side, I lived on Third Street, to begin with, the 300 block, and then we purchased, my aunt… (I lived with my grandmother and my aunt) and my aunt purchased a house down the lower end of Second Street. So we lived down on Second Street, it was a shotgun house, it was like three rooms, a bath, a little back porch. WE lived almost on the river bank. We were that close.HAY: So at the end of Second Street…
WARREN: … right before you go onto Paul Sawyier, going down Second Street going
toward Paul Sawyier we lived about the third house up on the left. It was 330 E. Second Street.HAY: Is that house still there?
WARREN: No, it’s all open space now.
HAY: So… Van Arsdale… where did you get that name?�WARREN: Well,my mother came
up with it somewhere… [laughing]… everyone said it’s kind of aristocratic! [laughing] but you know there’s nothing aristocratic about us. [laughing]HAY: It’s a nice name… and then when did you get shortened to Van.
WARREN: All my life
HAY: At school did they call you Vincent?
WARREN: No, they called me Van. Very few people have ever known that. And people
have always asked me, how can you get Van out of Vincent? And I would never tell them. [laughter]HAY: A good secret! Not a secret anymore
WARREN: Not a secret anymore
HAY: Part of the historical record.
[laughter]
HAY: Tell me the names of your parents and grandparents.
WARREN: OK. My mother was Helen Warren and my grandmother was Laurel Warren and
my aunt was Margaret Warren. Margaret Warren and Laurel Warren was the ones that reared me. Like I say, I was born on High Street, we moved to the south side and went from there! Want to know a little bit about high school?HAY: Sure, but uh, brothers and sisters?
WARREN: No. But I did have two cousins that lived with us, two first cousins.
Three different sisters had children and my first cousin, John Warren, and my other cousin was Genevieve Faulkner and we the three of us, my grandmother reared the three of us.HAY: Were you around the same age?
WARREN: They were, John was probably three years older than myself and Genevieve
was probably four years older. I was the youngest. Yeah, I was the baby.HAY: And so you went … tell me about school. Where did you go to school?
WARREN: Went to Mayo Underwood High School, I started at Mayo Underwood and then
I went up to Rosenwald, for about up until the eighth grade. Of course, if you lived downtown you had to pay to go to Rosenwald, because Rosenwald, it’s still up there now, it was a three room school and it was mostly it was for the kids that lived what we called on the hill … East Main area, around the University, then it was Kentucky State College, cause all of the professors sons and daughters went to Rosenwald, but we had to pay… it wasn’t a private school, but it was a little different than Mayo Underwood was... it wasn’t any better and it wasn’t any worse, it was just something that my grandmother decided that she wanted me to do.HAY: How old were you when you were there?
WARREN: Oh, let’s see… I graduated from High School in ’51. if I go back four years…
HAY: 46 you would have started as a freshman.
WARREN: Yes
HAY: so you started at Rosenwald… and then…
WARREN: Came downtown to May Underwood…
HAY: How long did you say at Rosenwald?
WARREN: Oh, approximately, I want to say six years. It’s going way back.
HAY: Tell me about a school day, would you walk to school?
WARREN: Yes. Well, when I went to Rosenwald we had to … we caught a bus… a bus
came downtown and picked us up because the bus also went out on Old Lawrenceburg Road and picked up kids that lived out in the rural area, so we rode the bus going to Rosenwald but when I lived on the south side we walked to Mayo Underwood, and of course May Underwood was on Washington… not Washington… Mayo Underwood is where the state office building is… in that area.HAY: The big complex… it’s in there?
WARREN: So we walked to school from the south side and we were always on time on
cold days! [laughter] Now during the good weather…it was unpredictable [laughing]HAY: So, Rosenwald was also for black kids, right?
WARREN: Yes.
HAY: and were those the only two? There was Mayo Underwood and there was
Rosenwald and in Franklin county… were those the two options for kids… schools for black kids?WARREN: Franklin County wasn’t there then. Just Frankfort High.
HAY: Just Frankfort High… and that was just for the white kids.
WARREN: Right… and we almost had to walk right past Frankfort High to get to
Mayo Underwood. [laughing] I say that… and literally it was for some kids, who lived like up on the upper part of Logan Street and up in that area, the almost did have to walk right pass.HAY: I need to put you on hold for a second while I fix that microphone… [interruption]
HAY: On cold days…
WARREN; We got there in plenty of time
HAY: and what about when coming home from school… would you walk home?
WARREN: Well, at lunch time now we had… there were two restaurants very close to
the school itself. It was Shine Boys right across the street from the school and he had some of the best corn bread and bean soup that you ever put in your mouth. And then there was Tiger’s Inn… see our mascot was Tiger, we were the Mayo Underwood Tigers ok and I was an athlete in school. I played football and basketball.HAY: So the Tigers, that was your team.
WARREN: Right the Mayo Underwood Tigers
HAY: So the Tiger Inn was… everyone…
WARREN: … the hangout
HAY: Everyone go there for lunch?
WARREN: Go there for lunch. Now, Mr. Atkins had some of the best Chili and Shine
Boy had the best corn bread and bean soup so it was kind of a…HAY: Would you go there after school also?
WARREN: We’d go to the Tigers Inn after school. Because Shine Boys sold beer so
we couldn’t go in there after a certain hour.HAY: OK. So lunchtime, you’d have a lunch hour from 11-12
WARREN: Right 11 –12
HAY: So you’d walk out, get your lunch, come back… The Chili…
WARREN: was at Tiger’s Inn and Bean Soup and Cornbread was at Shine Boys and
then we had it was two stores… it was Frog Woods Grocery catty corner from the Tiger’s Inn and I the name of the other store… I want to say Tillet’s but I’m not sure… a lot of the kids would just go there and get say a soda pop and whatever… cheese and crackers, bologna, just whatever they you know had a taste for.HAY: And then at the end of the day, school’s finished…
WARREN: you get out of school at 3 o’clock and then everybody… well, being an
athlete they had practices during the seasons, but otherwise… you know, we would stop and play in the old Capitol Yard or we stop uptown and look in the windows and whatever.HAY: So, when you say uptown…
WARREN: This was uptown.
HAY: On the north side of the river?
WARREN: No No, right here… St. Clair, Main Street… see Mayo Underwood was kind a down.
HAY: so you had to walk back this way to head back home.
WARREN: Right
HAY: anyway
WARREN: And we could come across either bridge at that time, but most of the
time we came across the Capitol Avenue bridge.HAY: I bet those were fun walks…
WARREN: It was. Now, I say that. A lot of time we go back the old bridge way,
the singing bridge, now under the Capitol Avenue bridge there were pigeons and they had little walk ways on each side and sometime we’d venture…up under there to try to catch the pigeons and for what reasons we didn’t know… after we caught them we didn’t know what to do with them. [laughing] yeah.HAY: so you’d actually go over that railing?
WARREN: No, We’d start at the end, on the south side and then
1:00climb up on it on that end and come across… just a little railing [he holds his hands about two feet apart] yeah…HAY: Anybody ever…
WARREN: Nobody ever accidentally fell in, but we’ve had some guys jump in but no one…
HAY: You survived that… that’s a survival…
WARREN: I never did it… I was chicken [laughing]
HAY: Hot summer days… would they jump in in the hot summer?
WARREN: Oh yes. No winter time in fact we didn’t even go up there in the winter.
HAY: Did you swim in the river?
WARREN: We swam quite a bit, in fact, what we called our swimming hole, was
almost directly behind where I lived… because there was a little house in between the back of our house and the river itself … down what is St. John’s Court was behind our house… course St. John’s Court is no longer there, it was Second Street then St. John’s Court and then the river. [his hands movements mark the grid of the streets.] You go down the river bank, in fact we had fixed it up almost like a beach, we had lights, I don’t know how my cousin did it but, John was a negotiator, and John new how to talk to people and some kind of way he got us some lights… there were some lights down there… cause we had a rope that was on the tree, we swung out on the rope, jumped in.HAY: ( ) you could spend a whole summer day there
WARREN: We spent all day… then some folks had a little garden further down on
the river bank and sometimes what we would do… we’d get a pot and get the water and we’d go to the garden and put all kinds of vegetables in this pot and believe it or not we called it slum gullion [laughing] now where that name come from, I’ll never know, I can’t think.HAY: Slum Gullion? Like S-L-U-M G-U-L-L-I-O-N?
WARREN: Right
HAY: Slum Gullion?
WARREN: Slum Gullion.
[laughing]
HAY: Sounds tasty!
[laughter]
HAY: Was it pretty good?
WARREN: It was pretty good.
HAY: Did you have any spices or anything… salt and pepper?
WARREN: Yep, Yep, We’d go to some houses and get some salt and pepper.
HAY: ( )
[Laughter]
WARREN: It was mostly vegetables… it was all vegetables.
HAY: So here we are in the Grand Theatre… ( ) Tell me what you felt when you
walked up here.WARREN: Some memories came back after I got upstairs here, like I said
downstairs I knew nothing about. Upstairs I could tell you all about it. So when I got upstairs it all came back when I hit that top step. I could just visualize Ms. Wilson there. I could visualize the popcorn machine there and then as I came up into the theatre itself, then it really hit me. That hey, this is where we were! This was it. This was the spot on Saturdays and Sundays.HAY: So what time on a Saturday would you come… what would a Saturday be like?
WARREN: It would start about noon on Saturdays. And we’d be out of here by 4
o’clock. But like I said, the serials themselves brought us back every Saturday, we had to see what was going happen in the next feature.HAY: So basically, everybody came on a Saturday.
WARREN: EVERYBODY came on a Saturday and Sundays.
HAY: Was the program the same on Saturday as Sunday?
WARREN: No, no.
HAY: So you could come all day both days and get completely different entertainment…
WARREN: right
HAY: and everybody’d be here?
WARREN: right.. everybody’d be here.
HAY; Family, friends… would the young people come at a certain time?
WARREN: Everybody came at the same time. Everybody came at the same time.
HAY: Tell me about where you sat.
WARREN: I sat probably from where I am now in the lower area, I sat at about the
third seat up in the upper part of it. Mostly on the end here. Every now and then if you had a friend that would sit somewhere else, you might want to join them … I have sat on that side over there and in this area if I had some friends that would come in that I wanted to go down and talk to them.HAY: Tell me about those back corners.
WARREN: Well, those back corners were kind of, uh, what can I say… they were for
couples… [laughing] they were for couples.HAY: Was it really dark?
WARREN: It was darker than the other area. It wasn’t dark dark, but it was
darker than the others areas sitting down here.HAY: Would you come at the very beginning and stay for everything? Would you
come and go? Would you all visit with friends in the hallway in between?WARREN: We would be here from 12 – 4 but we would visit in the hallway in
between the movies. And like I said there was always a double feature so you were here for a while.HAY: And was it always movies?
WARREN: Yes, Yes.
HAY: No live entertainment of any kind?
WARREN: Not that we ever attended. Not that we ever attended that I can recall.
HAY: What kind of movies did you see?
WARREN: Oh, it was old Clark Gable movies, what was the swimmer’s name, Johnny
Weismuller, there was a lot of cowboys, a lot of cowboys. I guess just all the old movies cause they don’t all come back to me at this time.HAY: Did you have a favorite…
WARREN: I just liked being here, I just liked being here. And I guess when I was
really young [he hand gestures a small boy] I did like the cowboys..HAY: But then you would come for the social scene, to se your friends
WARREN: Right
HAY: So that would have been high school then…
WARREN: right, exactly
HAY: How old, how young do you think you were the first time you came here? Or
remember coming here?WARREN: probably about twelve.
HAY: did you come with…
WARREN: I would have come with friends.
HAY: you wouldn’t have come with family…
WARREN: no
HAY: or aunt or grandmother
WARREN: No, I would have come with friends
HAY: So really it was all those coming of age years 12, 13, 14, 15…
WARREN: right, that’s when you think you know what you’re doing, you THINK you
know what you’re doing. [laughter]HAY: …trying to figure it out.
WARREN: [laughing]
HAY: you know how when you go to the movies at any age you get into a theatre
its like you’re transported into another world, isn’t it…WARREN: right
HAY: and all your troubles…
WARREN: gone… you leave them all outside. Yes, this was some, a different thing altogether.
HAY: This would have been the years of ’46, ’48, ’49, ’50 and no television
WARREN: No, no. and very few radios.
HAY: and very few radios? Did you all have a radio?
WARREN: We had a radio… not to begin with… I say to begin with but I don’t know
what year… but we did finally get a radio.. but we weren’t… and at that time my parents didn’t have cars so we had to walk.HAY: So you could get everything you needed by walking.
WARREN: right, there was always neighborhood grocery stores.
HAY: So your grandmother and your aunts didn’t come to the movies?
WARREN: Not that I can ever recall, now that you say that, not that I can ever recall.
HAY: What kind of work did they do?
WARREN: Domestic, domestic, now my aunt did, and I guess in the 50s she did
start working for the state. But my grandmother did domestic work all the time and of course my mother was still living but my mother she had moved to New York and of course she did send things back for my grandmother to clothe and feed me, but then she moved back to Frankfort and she worked at the… what’s the depot between… Lexington and… is it Winchester? … The depot?… It’s federal…. Anyway, she worked over there when she came back here. She was in personnel there.HAY: So what took her to New York?
WARREN: Being adventurous.
HAY: Was she an adventurous spirit?
WARREN: Yes, Yes, yes.
HAY: Was she real young when you were born?
WARREN: She was twenty.
HAY: So she went off to be adventurous in the biggest city you can go to!
WARREN: Right, Right.
HAY: How old were you when she came back?
WARREN: I was twenty, twenty-two. I had been in the service. I had been in the
Air Force and when I got out of the Airforce in December of ’55… I joined the Air Force in January of ’52.HAY: After High School
WARREN: Well, I went to Kentucky State College on a basketball scholarship, but
that year, the first semester, I didn’t come back after the Christmas Break, I joined the service, but then when I came back from the service in ’55, I did go back to Kentucky State in January of ’56.HAY: So, you were in the service during Korea?
WARREN: I was… a Korean veteran.
HAY: And tell me where did you…
WARREN: I was stationed in Fairford, England. Well… I took my basic training in
Lackland in San Antonio, Texas. Then I went to Reno, Nevada, they had just opened a new air force base there called Stead Air Force Base. I was in Reno for about six months and then I went overseas, I went to England, and I was stationed in Fairford, England which is approximately 45 –50 miles southeast of London. The closest size city was a place called Swindon. The base itself was located kind of around a kind of a camp. People lived in, not tents, not huts, but trailer-like type homes. It was kind of around the base. So we’d have to catch a bus to Swindon and catch a train from Swindon to London if you wanted to go to London. And that was quite adventures.HAY: Did you like that?
WARREN: I loved it.
2:00HAY: What did you find very different about it from life in America, life in Kentucky?WARREN: Well, the difference was, there was no segregation, you know, we were
treated just like every body else, I mean they were just really nice.HAY: Did you feel that from the first day you arrived?
WARREN: From the first day I arrived, yes, yes.
HAY: So you’d go to London and have a good time?
WARREN: We’d have a ball [laughing] we’d have a GOOD time. A good time was had
by all. [laughing]HAY: And what would you all do in London?
WARREN: We’d go to the clubs, now we couldn’t, on our passes, they had minor
written on them if you were 18 or under, so we couldn’t buy any kind of liquor or anything, we could go in the clubs but we couldn’t purchase anything. And then, a lot of us, Sundays, a lot of us would go to church there, we’d go to church. We’d meet folk. And of course I played basketball in the service, so I got to see quite a bit of Europe.HAY: So you would travel with the team?
WARREN: Yes, Yes.
HAY: And play other…
WARREN: We’d play other bases, other Air Force Bases.
HAY: Other American…
WARREN: right, right
HAY: Well, that’s really interesting, that was a nice release wasn’t it, to be
able get out…WARREN: It really was, it really was,
HAY: Would you be working during the week, let’s say with your job, and then
baskebtball would take you on the weekend.WARREN: Right, and then I worked with the baseball team so I was kind of always
gone, I was what we call special service, but then sometimes I would have to work Air Police, I’d be on the main gate, sometimes I’d do a what we call in town duty. So, it was quite interesting.HAY: How long were you there?
WARREN: I was there three years. Three years and one day.
HAY: And then did you come back here?
WARREN: I came back here.
HAY: And then you were finished with your service?
WARREN: I came back, yes.
HAY: Would you come home for visits?
WARREN: From England? No.
HAY: You were gone.
WARREN: Gone, I was gone.
HAY: And it was wartime.
WARREN: It was, uh, [interruption, his cell phone rang and he looked at his
phone but didn’t answer it] excuse me.HAY: You didn’t have cell phones when you were here in the Grand before, did you?
WARREN: No, No
HAY: … hadn’t even thought up the idea.. [laughing]
WARREN: And I didn’t think to turn this thing off, I’m sorry about that.
HAY: Oh, it doesn’t matter a bit.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: The three years in England, was that still Korean war time?
WARREN: It was during the Korean war.
HAY: And then your tour of duty… [his cell phone rang again and he looks at it
but doesn’t answer it]WARREN: I’m sorry.
HAY: No problem… so once you were finished in England your whole time in the Air
Force was..WARREN: was up, I was up.
HAY: And then you came back to Kentucky?
WARREN: right
HAY: And how did you feel, culturally, coming back?
WARREN: It was home. You know, so it made no difference, it was home and I was
glad to be home. Even though I enjoyed it there… in fact, if I had been able to re-enlist and been able to have stayed in England I would have re-enlisted, but at that time you couldn’t do that, they said you’d have to come back to the states and then you might get back to England and then you might have gone to Korea too, [laughing] so I didn’t want to take that chance. [laughter]HAY: What a great experience
WARREN: It was.
HAY: And then, let’s see, you went to K-State?
WARREN: Yes,
HAY: You called it Kentucky State College
WARREN: It was Kentucky State College at that time.
HAY: And you did more athletics there?
WARREN: I played basketball.
HAY: And then after you finished there…
WARREN: Well, I didn’t finish… I am an alumni, but I’m not a graduate. My senior
year, I got married, so I had to get a job, so that’s when I moved to Dayton Ohio, I was in Dayton for 12 years.HAY: And what took you to Dayton?
WARREN: My mother lived there and she was in personnel on one of the big airport
bases, so that kind of… I kind of had an in.HAY: That was 196???
WARREN: That was 1959.
HAY: And you were married?
WARREN: Yes,
HAY: And kids?
WARREN: One son.
HAY: What year was he born?
WARREN: 1959, December the 27th.
HAY: And what differences were there between life in Frankfort and life in Dayton?
WARREN: The only difference there was the fact that there was job opportunities.
There were no job opportunities here at that time. I mean, if you worked for the state at that time there were menial jobs, that was the biggest thing… the job opportunities.HAY: Dayton had a lot of industrial…
WARREN: It was really a General Motors town when I was there.
HAY: You stayed for twelve years…
WARREN: yeah.
HAY: More kids?
WARREN: No, just the one son.
HAY: And then what brought you back to Frankfort, or where did you go next?
WARREN: OK, I came back to Frankfort. OK. My wife passed in 1973.
HAY: She was young.
WARREN: She was 37 years old, so this brought me back home.
HAY: Did she have cancer?
WARREN: No, she had an aneurism, she had blood pressure problems.
HAY: That was a blow. So you came back to Frankfort… your family was here… was
your grandmother still alive, your aunts still here?WARREN: Yes.
HAY: Then what kind of work did you do?
WARREN: I started out out at Bendix when I first came back, I was supervisor out
at Bendix, but I only stayed there… I think I started in October and I left that following January and I left… I started working for the state. I worked for Education Department at first. Now that wasn’t education, education, I was kind of a, I used to go around to the different bases and purchase old furniture, well, used furniture for the state. When I say purchased, we didn’t actually use money, it was kind of giveaway things, but we’d go and claim it. But then, I was with them for about six months and then I started with what we call Manpower Services. It was employment. And I started there as an interviewer. And I was an interviewer for probably about two years and then I went, then the feds kind of told the state government that they had to have more minorities in the Transportation Department and so I went… they called me up would I come over there so I went to the Transportation Department and I stayed there about two months and Human Resources asked me to come back so I came back to Human Resources and after a certain number of years I became the manager of the employment office. It was employment/unemployment combined under the Human Resources Cabinet. And after that I think I stayed in the job about two or three years and then I went to what we call up to the main Human Resources building and I was the EEO officer for Manpower Services and I finished my career as the Equal Employment Opportunity Coordinator for the state in the Personnel cabinet and I retired in 1997 after 23 years. Of course you had to have 27 years to get full benefits so I purchased my military, my four years of military time which gave me my 27 years and I was able to draw full benefits.HAY: Wonderful, very interesting career. So, your son, where did he end up living?
WARREN: My son, is in Cincinnati right now, he has two children, a little girl
and a little boy – little boy is eight, little girl is ten.HAY: Tell me your son’s name.
WARREN: Edward Gerard Warren
HAY: And then his kids are…
WARREN: Son is named Edward Jr. and the daughter’s name is Danielle.
HAY: And then your wife’s name, what was her name?
WARREN: OK, my son’s mother’s name is Lucille, my wife that passed was named
Peggy. Now Peggy was from Lawrenceburg.HAY: What was her full name?
WARREN: Peggy Louise Cunningham from Lawrenceburg.
HAY: And then your son’s mother…
WARREN: Was Lucille Samuels.
HAY: Samuels is her last name
WARREN: Yes.
HAY: Where was she from?
WARREN: She was from Elton, Kentucky. She was Miss Kentucky State in 1959.
HAY: Is that right? Isn’t that interesting! So she was beautiful..
WARREN: She was, and still is.
HAY: So where does she live now?
WARREN: She lives in Dayton.
HAY: So you all moved there together and she stayed on.
WARREN: Yes
HAY: I’m trying to log all the names we can, that’s why I keep asking every
body’s names!WARREN: OK!
WARREN: Now, Peggy’s married name, her married name was Cunningham, cause she
had been married too… she was Peggy Cunningham when I married her, okay, but her maiden name was Peggy Logan from Lawrenceburg.HAY: Tell me, who would come to the Grand, who would be here?
WARREN: Everybody. Everybody that I can think of that was at Mayo Underwood High
School would be here. Saturdays and Sundays.HAY: Do you have really fond memories of Mayo Underwood?
WARREN: I really do, I’ve always loved it.
HAY: How about your teachers?
WARREN: Teachers were mentors, parents, teachers, advisors, the very best, the
very, very best.HAY: Would they… had the teachers been there a long time… were they very devoted
to the institution?WARREN: Years and Years.
HAY: And where would they have all come from, had they become teachers… had they
gone to teacher colleges…?WARREN: Most of them had gone to Kentucky State. Now I don’t know where most of
them had originally come from… except for now I do know that Miss Alice Samuels who was the principal, now she was a Frankfortonian, and she was the principal at one time. And then we had Professor James Brown, he was also a principal, but he wasn’t originally from Frankfort, I don’t believe, I don’t think so. But Miss Chaney is the oldest one still living… Ora Chaney.HAY: What’s her first name?
WARREN: Ora, I believe… Chaney
HAY: And she’s still living?
WARREN: She’s still living.
HAY: She was a teacher there?
WARREN: Yes, she was the home ec teacher.
HAY: Is she in Frankfort?
WARREN: She’s here in Frankfort.
HAY: Is she somebody you’ve kept up with over the years?
WARREN: Yes, in fact her husband, who was a legend, Dr. Henry Chaney, passed
maybe four months ago. She lives in College Park.HAY: What did her husband do?
WARREN: He was a history professor at the University.
HAY: So the teachers that came maybe from all over the state, to Kentucky State,
to get their degrees and then went of to different… a lot of teachers…WARREN: That’s what it was, it was for teachers…
HAY: That’s what I was going to ask you… that’s what I thought it was… it was
there to train teachers. What did you study while you were there?WARREN: Sociology major.
HAY: That was a good major for what you ended up doing.
WARREN: Yes, it was.
HAY: Do you happen to remember when the Grand Theatre closed?
WARREN: I was gone. I was gone.
HAY: When you came back after those twelve years in Dayton did you notice a big
change in Frankfort?WARREN: As far as the growth, yes, and other things too.
HAY: The downtown had changed?
WARREN: Well, the downtown had changed tremendously.
HAY: Things like the Grand Theatre closed and the shops…
WARREN: Right, and of course, you used to have Fitzgerald’s drug store, you’d
have Mucci’s, J.C. Penneys was almost right next door, a little farther up and then there was a Woolworths right next door.HAY: And of course your son would have no memories..
WARREN: No memories at all about Frankfort.
HAY: So if you were tell your son what the Grand Theatre meant to you when you
were growing up what would you say?WARREN: I would tell him that it was a place that I enjoyed coming to on
Saturdays and Sundays and it was the place where I met my friends and even though it was segregated it was a fun place to be, because I was with friends.HAY: I loved what you said too, earlier, when the other camera was going, that
you talked about your surprise when you got to England and you realized that the royalty sat in the balcony. Could you tell me that again?WARREN: [laughing] Well, when I got to England, cause we’d go to England and
we’d go to the movies and we also went to different shows and and of course you could go either way so you could downstairs, you could go upstairs, so a lot of times, I guess just out of habit, we’d go up stars, I would, go upstairs and I got there and I’m looking around and I’m saying, this is great, am I in the right place? This is where the royalty sits! These are the better seats, here in England, and I’d been thinking that I’d was losing out because I couldn’t sit down on the floor. But I … [laughing] … it was great! I couldn’t wait to get back and tell the folk! [laughing]HAY: And of course, after the mid sixties, late sixties then segregation was
phase out, gone, and so when you’d go to the movies around here, where would you go?WARREN: I didn’t do a lot of movie going. I didn’t do a lot of movie going when
I was grown.HAY: You were busy working and kids..
WARREN: right. Now, I went to stage shows, musicals, and those types of things
but as far as movies, I can’t recall going to movies. I can’t ever recall going to a movie in Dayton. A drive-in. I did go to a drive-in twice.HAY: So that’s interesting too... that whole… when you’re a teenager and you’re
coming of age what you do that forms… you’re really formed in those years, aren’t you… and your social life is much a part of it. It’s interesting that going to the movies was a big part of it. Did you ever… I’m sure there was always that push/pull about the Capitol. Well… you could go to the Capitol?WARREN: We could go to the Capitol but the Capital, it was a hostile
environment. The Capital wasn’t friendly. And when they said you were in the Crow’s nest at the Capital that’s exactly where you were.HAY: Even though you could go there…
WARREN: We could go there for a while and then it changed. We couldn’t go at all.
HAY: But even before that rule or law (I don’t know what that would be) when
that changed that rule, African American’s could no longer go to the Capital, but what you’re saying is that even before that it was unfriendly.WARREN: It was an unfriendly environment.
HAY: So did you go a time or two and then just…
WARREN: Maybe two or three times… but not a … it wasn’t a good spot to be.
HAY: Did some bad, did any really bad things happen that you recall?
WARREN: Just the environment itself. It was a place where you knew you wasn’t
wanted, you wasn’t welcome.HAY: … and of course here?
WARREN: Here it was different, you know. We had our spots, here.
HAY: …felt happy and like you belonged…
WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: An interesting dynamic. And let’s think… it’s interesting that you liked to
go to stage shows when you were older… musicals?WARREN: Yes musicals… B.B. King, that type, those type things.
HAY: Like concerts?
WARREN: Right, Concerts.
HAY: So when you’d hear some musician’s coming to town you’d…
WARREN: We’d get tickets and we’d go.
HAY: I’d go to B.B. King any day!
[laughter]
I’m a musician and I think B.B. King is ( )
[laughter]
WARREN: Yeah.
HAY: So, we were talking about how buildings, or how different places make you
feel different … welcome, not welcome… I’ve been thinking a lot about this building… and I wanted to ask you about that idea… where buildings hold different emotions, an actual physical place… even if you haven’t walked in in 30 years or 10 years or 50 years how an actual physical place can bring back certain emotions and I wondered if there were any other buildings or places in Frankfort that you really feel a strong emotion when you visit that building.WARREN: Not really. Not really.
HAY: of course you’ve been here all your life, on and off all your life, so
everything holds a memory.WARREN: Yes.
HAY: How do you feel about the arts in general? And it’s value to community?
WARREN: I think it’s very valuable to communities. And I think it’s great what
you’re doing here. In fact, I intend and hopefully I will be able to attend the majority of the functions, Sheila [Sheila Mason Burton] and I are friends so I talk to her quite a bit, she lets me know what’s going on most the times, what’s going on in the communities and what’s coming up next, and of course, I get a brochure every now and then too. Saying what’s going to be, when, so I do intend to attend.HAY: Sheila said a wonderful thing to me when I asked her that question about
the arts, she was so eloquent, it almost knocked me over, she said, the arts allow you to live multiple lives.WARREN: uh huh
HAY: I thought that that was a really lovely thing to say.
WARREN: Yeah, it is! And it does! That’s what it does!
HAY: Like that feeling when you’re in here watching a movie with your friends
and all your troubles are gone.WARREN: Right, you leave them all outside.
HAY: So, that’s all of my questions… I wondered whether were there any other
stories or family things, stories you had in mind to tell?WARREN: Well, not really. I’m involved in… we have one club that originated in
1933, it’s called the Grad Club and in the beginning, in 1933 it was about between eight and twelve men who had attended Mayo Underwood School. They got together and they would purchase athletic equipment for Mayo Underwood and it’s still active, right now, I’m a member of that. Right now we have 15 members and we meet the second Wednesday of every month, we had a club house out off of Old Lawrenceburg Road, but the state purchased that from us, so we purchased a building down on Wallace Avenue so we have our own club house on Wallace Avenue and we meet and of course, it’s like a key club, everyone has a key, we have a kitchen, we do rent it out, to people who want to have parties for their children. But we have a strict, there’s no loud music, no outside activity because it’s in a neighborhood, so we have to kind of monitor that, but that’s my biggest thing now, is being a member of the Grad Club.HAY: So, twelve members
WARREN: fifteen
HAY: … and everybody attended or graduated from Mayo Underwood?
WARREN: No, not now, we, most of us… ( ) have died out. Now we have people from
the University, we have Willy Peale, who is an attorney here, we have Derek Graham, of course Derek is from Frankfort, Derek’s father, Paul, and Gus Rigelle [sp?] who was a professor at the University, Dr. Holmes, who has now passed, he’s a member, was a member, Sheila’s father, Andrew Mason, Sr., Sheila’s brother, Andrew Mason, Jr. and Sheila’s brother, Steve Mason… so…HAY: What a great crew! And do you have, when it started, you’re saying, it was
to buy the athletic equipment…WARREN: for the school…
HAY: and what are you main?
WARREN: Now, we have a scholarship and we have functions for children at times,
we didn’t do it this Halloween, a lot of times we’ll have little parties, Christmas dance, we also send the elderly a card with money in it every Christmas. We have a list of the elderly.HAY: Very nice… so when you all get together, do you all tell stories? Old days?
New days?WARREN: Every time we meet, there’s a host, a member is the host so they have to
fix a meal, so that’s what we do most the time on every second Wednesday, is we have a feast! And we do tell long tales! And we watch sometimes, we watch ball games.HAY: By the way, how were the ball games this weekend? Remember when we were on
the phone we were speaking about the football schedule on Sunday. Were there a bunch of good games on Sunday?WARREN: Well, there was games, the Bengals lost, I didn’t like that [laughing]
Louisville won. Kentucky won. Now I’m a Louisville fan. Now, I’m a Kentucky fan when they aren’t playing Louisville, okay, but I’m a Louisville fan. Louisville won big on Thursday, they beat West Virginia, and Kentucky did a great job beating Georgia, no one expected that! And I don’t know what Kentucky State did, they was out of town I think this week nd of course they never call it in for it to be on TV, it’s probably in today’s paper.HAY: Do they play usually on Saturday nights?
WARREN: Saturday night or Saturday during the day. They have one more home game,
that’s the 11th.HAY: I was just thinking of your guys at your club want to come over and see
this place before it goes under renovation, just let me know.WARREN: I’ll tell them, too. I’m sure some of them would like to see it. I’m
sure that some would like to see it.HAY: The idea is that…[tape jumped here] Frankfort, tell me what Frankfort means
to you in your life.WARREN: Frankfort means the world to me. I love Frankfort, I love Frankfort.
It’s home. It’s home and I love it. I wish my son could have been here more and just seen what Frankfort is like.HAY: to come and visit…
WARREN: come and visit…
HAY: He’s just had short visits, though, he never got to live it.
WARREN: No.
HAY: It means a lot to your family, family is here… friends…
WARREN: I have one aunt still living here. She’s 96. Lucille Jameson that’s the
only family I have here. I have some second cousins, I shouldn’t say only family, I do have some second cousins that live here, I think I have one second cousin that lives here.HAY: Would that be the kids of your cousins you grew up with?
WARREN: right that would be John, John Warren’s children, one of his daughters
still live here.HAY: What year did your grandmother die?
WARREN: Don’t ask me that one.
HAY: Sixties? Seventies? Eighties?
WARREN: She was 86 years old, but I don’t remember the year. I was in Dayton. So
it would have to be between 59 and 73. In fact, I was back here,.. so it had to have been after 73, no I wasn’t here, I wasn’t here. I think I might have been here for a visit when she passed, but at that time she lived on Third Street with my Aunt, they moved back on Third, they moved back up on Third in the 200 block, cause we had always lived in the 300 block.HAY: What about your mother? IS she still alive?
WARREN: No, no, my mother passed, let’s see, my Aunt passed first, then my
mother passed, but the years don’t come to me.HAY: Eighties? Nineties? Seventies?
WARREN: Seventies, I would say. Let me see, it would have to have been fifties,
she passed when she was, no, I’m wrong, I was trying to count the years… Let’s see, I was born when she was twenty… I was trying to think what age I was when she passed… but it doesn’t come to me. 3:00 end�PAGE �
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