WARREN: … and of course all of this is different because here would have been
outside, this would have purchased our tickets.HAY: What was that like?
WARREN: It was like…what is this?...whatever. And on this side…is where the
blacks… purchased their tickets. And on this side, which led right into the main area, course we went up some stairs… from the outside.HAY: Were there two different ticket takers, two different ticket sellers?
WARREN: My recollection that there was one ticket seller but they sold both sides.
HAY: And then, you had…
WARREN: Then, we had, we went upstairs… and those both… went into the main lobby.
HAY: So that was, that was like a, a box office that stuck out, and doors and stairs…
WARREN: Well, it wasn’t a door immediately going in, it was like a lobby,
outside lobby going in, but it was like… from here to here was a little walkway to the steps to go up to the door.HAY: To the door. So this of course is totally different.
WARREN: This is totally different…
HAY: In the past it was a real estate office and a shops, it was shops in
between being a theatre.WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: But… this, this you never would have seen, but this is the… where we pealed
off the newer walls. This was the Vaudville wall from the 1910 theatre.WARREN: OK.
HAY: Which they just kept covering it up. [Laughter] So they covered it up with
the new wall for the 19 for the I think the new Grande was 1941… where they covered that up the first time. And what years were, do you remember most vividly coming?WARREN: ‘48, ‘49, ’50.
HAY: OK, OK.
WARREN: And ’51.
HAY: OK.
WARREN: I graduated from high school in ’51.
HAY: In 1951… OK.
WARREN: Male Underwood High School… Male Underwood.
HAY: So you went all the way through…
WARREN: All the way through Male Underwood.
HAY: Well, I’ll ask you more about that when we sit down.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: What, what I thought we could do is walk around the theatre…
WARREN: OK.
HAY: And look at the downstairs, and any memories that pop up, and then we’ll go
back… I’ll take you upstairs.WARREN: There won’t be any memories from downstairs. [Laughter]
HAY: We’ll sit down upstairs first.
WARREN: OK. Alright.
HAY: So, yeah, you wouldn’t have come in this way.
WARREN: Would never come in this way.
HAY: I was just going to point out some of these little interesting, the silver
dots from the Vaudeville walls, and the little bits of cornice. and you can even see the old steps.WARREN: Right.
HAY: When, because in Vaudeville, the house was just straight back…
WARREN: OK.
HAY: And the little stage at the end.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: And then, when we walk in, you’ll remember that the theatre turns left.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: So this would have been the downstairs hall. I guess it’d be about this
wall, right?WARREN: I’d feel like I’d say I don’t know because I would feel that by now, we
would have been inside… probably back where he’s standing right now… would probably been the entrance… after they had purchased their tickets.HAY: OK.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: [Entering the main theatre space] So the balcony now is right above us.
WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: [Pointing to the left of door entrance] And looking towards the movie,
movie screen.WARREN: OK, well then the screen was there [indicating straight forward].
HAY: Well, you might… you probably remember when… see it was the little
Vaudeville house.WARREN: Yeah, yeah it was it was straight ahead.
HAY: Straight ahead, and then, but then in 1941, it turned… to the bigger one.
You think you remember before?WARREN: No, this is after. This is, like I say… ’48.
HAY: Yeah.
WARREN: We came in like it was up, up in this area.
HAY: OK.
WARREN: And, it was… the screen was straight down.
HAY: OK. Alright.
WARREN: OK. But when we went up the steps, we had to make a left.
HAY: Right.
WARREN: To go in…
HAY: Yep.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: You’ll see that when we go in, because you’ll see how it’s kind of turned
around. Do you remember looking down and seeing any of these patterns, these designs on the walls?WARREN: No. I was never down here.
HAY: Yeah. Well, what we’ll do is, I’ll, we’ll walk with me this way, and we’ll
look back…WARREN: OK.
HAY: And then it’ll put… probably your bearings.
WARREN: It’ll bring it back to me, yeah.
HAY: I’ve got all those lights on up there… That sort of gives you a little bit
of bearing.WARREN: OK, OK, now I was wrong back there. It wasn’t straight ahead. Because we
had to come in and then make a left. So this is, this is correct.HAY: And you’ll, you’ll recognize it. When you go upstairs, you’re really going
to recognize it.WARREN: Yeah, yeah… We went up the steps, and then we had to make a left to come
in to the theatre itself, to the seating.HAY: Yeah, we’ll it’s all identical, it’s all…identical
WARREN: Yeah, OK, well, I was incorrect when I said it was straight.
HAY: Yeah.
WARREN: No, this is the way it was.
HAY: And you can see… these blankets are here just to absorb some of the sound
for some of the concerts. And when the real estate office was here, they put in a low ceiling…so they wouldn’t have to pay…WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: As much. And basically everything above that eight foot ceiling has just
been sitting there for… forty years.WARREN: OK. [Laughter]
HAY: We even found little… Milk Dud wrappers up there.
WARREN: Is that right? [Laughing] They were favorites back then.
HAY: [Laughing] That was, that was the thing to have, wasn’t it? And… we were so
impressed when we… when these beams were exposed… because that is one heck… of a sturdy building structure, isn’t it?WARREN: It is. It really is.
HAY: So.
WARREN: Yes.
HAY: And that’s…
WARREN: Nothing I can recollect about down here. [Laughing]
HAY: No, and that’s part of the story, isn’t it? [Laughter] That’s part of the
story. [They walk back down through the hallway.] So we’ll come back through here. And then we’ll go up the stairs… and we’ll see what… see what you remember about up there.WARREN: It’ll bring back lots of memories. [Laughter – Hay]
HAY: I’m just gonna check this door… make sure I’ve got it closed.
WARREN: OK, OK.
HAY: There we go. And then I’ve got a water here, and I’ve got a water for you.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: And… why don’t you… you go first.
WARREN: OK… [Laughing] I don’t remember them being this steep!
HAY: Hang on, because they are steep.
WARREN: Course, I was fifty years younger then.
HAY: Probably ran up them.
WARREN: Yes.
HAY: Jogged up them.
WARREN: OK… Now right along in here, is where Ms. Wilson sat. She was the ticket
collector. OK? And she had a popcorn machine. Well, she had a cab… well not a cabinet, but she had a candy display in. She’d sit behind that, and she had a popcorn machine along here. OK?HAY: And she’d show….when you, you’d come up the top of the stairs, she’d be
right there.WARREN: Right.
HAY: And everybody knew her, right?
WARREN: Everybody knew her.
HAY: And her name was?
WARREN: Wilson.
HAY: Ms. Wilson.
WARREN: Mmm hmm.
HAY: [Pointing to a pipe curling out of the wall.] The old water fountain.
WARREN: Right, right. This is the back door where they used to sneak in
sometimes. [Laughing] We’d let them in if they didn’t have money.HAY: So would somebody be knocking back there in… you’d…
WARREN: It would usually be… Ms. Wilson had a… time, she would come up this way,
she’d come up that way and check, see what everybody was doing. So, it was kind of timed. It’d be two or three of us, you know, and we knew when to… when to tell them. [Laughter]HAY: You mean when she was, was turned around.
WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: Oh, that’s funny. [Laughing] Now, there was, so there was staircase… I
don’t think that staircase is there anymore.WARREN: Probably not, but there used to be a staircase there.
HAY: Was it an iron…like an iron….
WARREN: Yes. Yes.
HAY: An exit. And would you… when you left, would you…
WARREN: No, no, we’d, we went back out this way.
HAY: So that was…
WARREN: That was just a…
HAY: Fire exit…
WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: That’s a funny story. [Laughing] Actually, let’s walk down here first.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: And then we’ll come back.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: And go that way, and then I think this… I’ve got a flashlight here. I think
I have a flashlight in my pocket. Look in here. Do you think, I think this must have been the men’s restroom.WARREN: Yes… Right.
HAY: So that’s all still there… And, there’s kind of a… closet of some kind. But
all this… these, these are all the same colors and everything.WARREN: Yep, it brings back memories.
HAY: [Going toward closed balcony doors] You want to, you want to look and see
who’s there? [Laughter] Got to do this while we’re here...WARREN: OK. Now Ms. Wilson would come and stand about here… on this side, and
just look. [Laughter – Hay] And of course, up…this was, these two, this was open on this side and open on that side.HAY: Yep, and there behind, it’s behind those curtains there.
WARREN: Right, now. That’s where the love birds went. [Laughting] Up in those
two areas. Course, my area was right down here. [Laughing]HAY: So would Ms. Wilson, look, see if people were…
WARREN: She’d come on either side. Well, you kind of knew, because you could
kind of time her. She was, you know, she was always the same…HAY: The same thing for every show.
WARREN: Same old same old.
HAY: So, for example, if the movie’s about to start… would she do it right
before the movie started?WARREN: No, she’d wait until the movie. See, they showed… the news… and there’d
be a… what was going to be coming for the next two or three days… and then there’d be two features. It was always two features. Oh, in between the news and what was going to be shown, there would be a serial… on Saturdays. A serial is, like they call them now, a soap opera… only they were better. And they ran about twelve weeks. And it would always, it would always end… with the good guy or good lady… you know, falling off a cliff or something [Laughter – Hay], and then, when you’d come back, something would catch them, and they’d fall on, you know catch a tree or something. [Laughing]HAY: So you’d come back the next week…
WARREN: Had to come back the next week.
HAY: So the same part of the serial would show for that week, and then…
WARREN: Right.
HAY: The next episode, just like television…
WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: Well isn’t that interesting?
WARREN: [Laughter] Yes.
HAY: And, they’d be very dramatic, like… a soap opera, overly dramatic?
WARREN: It was sometimes it would be like cowboy, it would be just different.
HAY: And it might run for twelve weeks?
WARREN: It would run twelve weeks and the thirteenth week, it would start a new one.
HAY: So first you had the news, then you had… previews…
WARREN: Yeah.
HAY: And then you had your serial…
WARREN: Then we had the serial, then we had two… two main movies.
HAY: Two main movies?
WARREN: Yeah.
HAY: So Ms. Wilson, what would her schedule be?
WARREN: She would stay, now Ms. Wilson would stay… she would leave… say if the
movie was over at 10, Ms. Wilson would leave between 8:30 and 9. And she’d always leave some popcorn in the popcorn machine. So everyone would break for the popcorn machine…HAY: Help them, they’d help themselves.
WARREN: [Laughter] Yeah right.
HAY: That is great.
WARREN: And sometimes she’d walk down through the center, well… she’d walk down
to the center and look back up in the corner, you know. But… that was just the way it was.HAY: And she would just look…
WARREN: She would just look. She would never… unless you were act... unless you
were making too much noiseHAY: Unless something was really going on…
WARREN: Yeah, unless you was making too much noise… or you were disturbing someone.
HAY: She was like the monitor and everybody had to be… aware….
WARREN: Right, right.
HAY: That she could just show up at any moment.
WARREN: And she was respected.
HAY: She was?
WARREN: Yes, yes.
HAY: Everybody loved her?
WARREN: Yeah.
HAY: You can, do you remember how the projection booths, you see the projection
booth there?WARREN: Uh huh.
HAY: There’s a door, door here.
WARREN: Right.
HAY: Do you remember that door over there?
WARREN: Yes.
HAY: The projectionist I guess would come and… come up before the movie, and…?
WARREN: Right, right, they’d, he’d already be here.
HAY: Yeah. Would he stay in there the whole time?
WARREN: The whole time.
HAY: Did the movies go wrong a lot?
WARREN: Uh, sometimes they would break up. It would be like a fast run, and then
he’d have to stop it and go back. But it wasn’t really that often.HAY: Yeah.
WARREN: I mean, it wasn’t as bad as, as you would think.
HAY: Yeah, just would happen every now and then.
WARREN: Right. And of course down here was some more seats. And the railings
went up that way.HAY: Railings up to the…
WARREN: Steps, right.
HAY: Yeah, that makes sense.
WARREN: And then here they are here.
HAY: Mmm hmm. Yep, and I guess. I think the screen… they said was slightly
further back, was really back there.WARREN: Right.
HAY: Do you remember there being a stage?
WARREN: There was a small stage. When I say small, it wasn’t… it… There was a
stage. But I don’t recall exactly what size, but it wasn’t… it was a medium stage. It wasn’t real large and it wasn’t real small.HAY: So Ms. Wilson was the only person up here, as far as, were there ushers up
here also?WARREN: No. Ms. Wilson was everything.
HAY: OK. She was everything. Popcorn, candy…
WARREN: The whole nine yards…
HAY: Discipline, helping people find their seats, or…
WARREN: It doesn’t matter No, she didn’t help nobody find their seats.
[Laughing] Everybody… [Laughter]HAY: Everbody knew where the seats were…
WARREN: Everbody did, they knew how to find their own seat.
HAY: Well, we can walk back down, and then I thought we could walk down the
other, down the other ramp there.WARREN: OK.
HAY: And then we’ll sit. You’re going to run John [referring to the camera man]…
WARREN: Don’t back out the door. [Laughter]
HAY: So you remember this long hallway…
WARREN: Yes.
HAY: Was there anything else here, or?
WARREN: All this was, all this was clear.
HAY: All clear.
WARREN: Everything that was… everything was right down there with Ms. Wilson.
HAY: And then all this was open…
WARREN: Right.
HAY: So then you would all come in, wonder around.
WARREN: Right.
HAY: So, would you visit out here much?
WARREN: In between movies, sometimes we would. Of course, you had to run down to
buy some candy or some popcorn… and you know a drink, or whatever.HAY: And here’s the other side.
WARREN: It was kind of the same thing, just from this side, like the other side.
She’d come… sometimes like… now if there was a lot of noise, she’d come, you’d always see her come. And she’d lean like this and look up. Of course, whoever was, was doing the disturbance, they’d… right away, it was stopped.HAY: Right.
WARREN: They knew… that it wasn’t… wasn’t kosher. [Laughter]
HAY: Right. That’s great. Well they’ve… it’s a shame all the seats are gone.
WARREN: Yeah.
HAY: But I think there were 250 seats up here?
WARREN: It was a lot of seats.
HAY: A lot of seats.
WARREN: It was a lot of seats. I don’t know the exact number.
HAY: Yeah.
WARREN: But, you… and I tell people this story all the time. I was in the Air
Force, and I was stationed in England. And when I got to England, this, up here, was where the royalty sitting… for everything, for all the plays. So, we, we didn’t… we had the goodness. [Laughter]HAY: Yeah, you had the best seats in the house.
WARREN: Best seats in the house… and we didn’t even realize it. [Laughter]
HAY: It’s a strange… it’s a strange story.
WARREN: It is.
HAY: It’s a, it’s an oxymoron. It means… there was sort of the segregation and
banished to the balcony, but these are the best seats.WARREN: Yeah, and the thing about it, at that time, it really didn’t bother us.
You know, because, we wasn’t satisfied with it, we wasn’t pleased with it, but it was there… and we accepted it, we made the best of it. You know, there was no animosity. Maybe every now and then, some of them might have threw something over the rail, but that was very seldom, because then, they knew they had to go.HAY: Yeah. Ms. Wilson… [Laughing]
WARREN: Yeah, Ms. Wilson made sure they went out of here. [Laughter – Hay] And
somebody would always tell who it was.HAY: They would?
WARREN: Whoever it was that was the closest to them because they didn’t want to
be the ones to be put out. [Laughter]HAY: So where did you sit mostly?
WARREN: Most of the time, I’d sit… right in… about the third row up… on this
side, too… most times. Now every now and then, I went up.HAY: Yeah.
WARREN: [Laughter] Every now and then.
HAY: Had a date?
WARREN: Yeah. [Laughter]
HAY: And when you came, I guess, you saw… everybody was here.
WARREN: Everybody. The lights were on…
HAY: All your friends.
WARREN: Yeah, and everybody was here. And it was a, it was a Saturday and Sunday
thing. Sunday after church, you know, you’d go home, change clothes... and make a beeline to get over here to go the movies. Then we’d go home and eat.HAY: Yeah? So you’d go home and eat a Sunday dinner late?
WARREN: Right.
HAY: Late dinner, like 5 o’clock.
WARREN: Right.
HAY: And you’d spend the afternoon…
WARREN: And everybody’d sit down… we’d sit down all the time at the table. Cause
I was raised by my grandmother.HAY: Well, this is the end of the walking around part.
WARREN: OK.
HAY: And we’ll just… we’re going to shift from John’s camera to the camera I
have set up already here.WARREN: OK.
HAY: And then we’ll just relax and talk some more.
WARREN: Fine.
HAY: Kind of reminisce a little bit more.
WARREN: Fine, fine.
Interview with Judy Clark, Janie Downey, and Pat Stewart.
20:08
In the lobby of the Grand Theatre.
HAY: Hey, ladies? Janie and Pat? I’ve got her mic’ed, but your voice will be
picked up on there. So, anything that you’d like to add, you can always add. Or… keep in mind that it will be in the background.CLARK: That’s right. That’s right. OK, so you just tell me when we’re ready.
HAY: So, tell me, we’re in the Grand Theatre, and when’s the last time that you
came in here?CLARK: Oh, goodness… probably 195… no, let’s see here. I was born in ’45. So…
the only time that I ever came to the Grand Theatre was… when there wasn’t anything that I wanted to see at the Capitol. And so we would come down here… but we were never allowed… to come to the Grand Theatre. Now, I don’t know if you want me to say this, but… it was for… Not that I think that I’m any better than anybody else, but at that time, and John may remember this, people from a certain section of town were called “craw bats”. And this is where, basically, the craw bats came. So we were never allowed to come here. So, I’m really excited. Now, I knew that there colored people at that time. That’s what we referred to them… that used the balcony. But I never knew how they came in. So is this the entrance? Is this the entrance?HAY: This is the entrance.
CLARK: OK, come on, girls. Let’s go up.
HAY: John, about…?
UNIDENTIFIED: There were rats.
CLARK: Oh my word. Look at this. Isn’t this, now see?
STEWART: You were never up here?
CLARK: No, no. Well, why would we have ever come up here?
DOWNEY: We would never be up here…
STEWART: But I had some black friends…
CLARK: Oh, did you? OK. No, I was never up here.
STEWART : Now, I’ve been to the balcony across from the Capitol.
UNIDENTIFIED: This is it.
UNIDENTIFIED: Oh!
CLARK: I’ve been in the balcony at the Grand, but I was… I mean at the Capitol,
but she’s been up here before, but I never have.HAY: This is Pat talking now. We can see you, but we can hear your voice on the tape.
STEWART : But anyway, we’d sit up here and throw popcorn.
CLARK: Well, tell it. They want to hear what you have to say.
STEWART: Well, I remember… looking… I remember… looking up here… and seeing what
the kids were doing that were hanging off the rail… or the.CLARK: Mmm, mmm, mmm, and it is…
HAY: And this is exactly as it was when the theatre was running 40 years ago.
CLARK: Isn’t that something?
HAY: It even had these rafters up here.
CLARK: You are kidding.
HAY: No.
CLARK: OK now, of course, you said this has changed. I was going to say, now, I
don’t remember… this being… like this down here, so, we’ll see.HAY: Well, what’s, what’s…
CLARK: Go down, Janie.
HAY: They put in a drop ceiling. They put in that little shack area. We call it
a shack.CLARK: Well boy this is new for me because I was never ever up here. Never.
DOWNEY: I would always try to sit underneath it.
CLARK: So that no one would throw popcorn at you? [Laughing]
DOWNEY: Well, they’d throw anything. Cokes or anything.
CLARK: I asked Shiela. I said, well where… did you all have concessions? And she
said yes. They had a concession stand here. Now where was their concession stand?HAY: I’ve been told by Sheila and by others that it was right here.
CLARK: Oh, OK.
HAY: And there was a popcorn machine here. And there were different bathrooms up
here. And a lady up here named Mrs. Wilson they all talked about.CLARK: Yes, Shiela, Shiela talked about that. So, they had restrooms up here also?
HAY: Probably this one and that one down there, and there were the two
entrances. What else do you remember, Pat?STEWART: That’s about it.
HAY: How many times do you think you came up here?
STEWART: Less than I’d like.
HAY: Yeah?
DOWNEY: They had the horror movies here. And they had the… 3-D movies. This was
the only place you could come and watch 3-D movies. The Capitol did not have them. And we would come here and get the little 3-D glasses and watch the movies. I had aunts that would come. Mother didn’t particularly care to come.HAY: But your aunts brought you.
DOWNEY: But my aunts brought me.
CLARK: OK now Joanna, where was the lobby? I mean, where was the ticket taker?
HAY: It was here somewhere.
CLARK: OK.
HAY: Is what I’ve been told. Do you remember it?
CLARK: No, no, that has not…
STEWART: I remember it. We walked on in, and we had the concession stand. And I
can remember my Dad would say, “Don’t eat their candy because the rats might be in it.”CLARK: Isn’t it funny what we remember? I mean, it is just…
HAY: And you remember that, too? Sort of what they were talking about?
DOWNEY: The rats? Oh, yes. They were big ones.
CLARK: [Looking at an old picture of the Grand] OK, here we are. Here’s the
little… OK.STEWART: See the little thing in front? I remember the little thing.
CLARK: See, now I had this visualized for the Capitol. But I did not have it
visualized for the Grand. I guess it was because I wasn’t here that often, but…DOWNEY: I see Woolworth’s next door.
CLARK: Yes.
DOWNEY: That’s neat.
HAY: Now, this is interesting, this wall right here. Nobody would remember this
because this was the 1910 Vaudeville wall. And when we took off all the old… all the added boards, this, this was the design left from 1910…CLARK: Oh…
HAY: When it was a straight-back Vaudeville house. It was just a straight back,
little old straight to the end, rather like…[pointing to a photograph] this, this was the Vaudeville house. And it just went straight back. And then, in 1941, they made it into the big movie theatre that you remember.CLARK: This is just something else.
HAY: And look, you can see the steps right here in the wall. So people would
walk in wall…CLARK: Yes.
HAY: And then it would slope… back. You can see the lines, the way…
CLARK: Do you all see this, girls? What she’s talking about here on the site?
The steps that were here. Now that was way before our time.CLARK: This is really neat that you all doing this.
DOWNEY: It sure is.
CLARK: I’m glad that somebody is doing the undertaking of… Now this, see I don’t
remember… Let me see. See I’m probably getting this confused with the… But this was all open. On the walls would have the displays of the what movies that you could see in the future.HAY: So this wall was certainly not here.
CLARK: Oh yeah.
STEWART: It wasa really small restroom.
CLARK: It would have been as… it was as wide as what, all of this. This, this
all would have been. And I remember the concession stand being right in front of us. And then, right in behind the concession stand was the ladie’s restroom. And then when you walked in, there was the colorful… it seems like to me, now I could be wrong on this. But it was like a… a red… floral… something that we would probably think was hideous today, but then, on, say, this wall, it was a mirror that covered the entire wall.HAY: Inside the bathroom.
CLARK: Inside. And then the actual, that was kind of like a, oh, like a, an
entry. The actual, the commodes and the sink and everything was over to the right.HAY: So what was the red part?
CLARK: That was the carpet.
HAY: Oh the carpet.
CLARK: The carpet was. Real, and then see, this I can remember. The concession
would have been way back… way back here somewhere. And then the bathroom… see, with this being all renovated, I don’t know, I don’t what…HAY: So the biggest change in your mind is of course that the floor is now flat.
CLARK: Right. And you… and it sloped down, exactly. And you had the… the two
sides. You had a side… you had an entrance over on this side, and it was wide. And then an entrance over on that side. But I don’t remember the screen… now, did that change? Did any of that change?HAY: That’s where it… the screen was. So that…
CLARK:
HAY: That’s a brand new screen. It was donated…
CLARK: And I guess it’s just that it’s just the perception of the being smaller
at the time and the fact that the floor was elevated.STEWART: Plus, it was larger than it was as an adult, so now its seems smaller.
CLARK: Oh, yeah. Oh, it just seemed so huge back then. Yes, it sure did. But I can’t…
HAY: Do you remember those designs on the wall, anybody?
CLARK: Yeah, vaguely, vaguely. I do. I mean, we’re, we’re going back. I’m 62
now, so we’re going back a good 40 years. I can’t remember what I did yesterday, let alone 40 years ago. [Laughter] But, oh, yeah, this does, this does bring back… memories. And I guess the exciting part was the fact that we were here because we weren’t supposed to be. You know…HAY: You were risky…
CLARK: Yeah, surely was.
HAY: An adventure.
CLARK: Exactly. Exactly
HAY: All of these above… look at these incredible beams and the structure of the
balcony. They don’t make them like this anymore.CLARK: Oh no, no.
HAY: Of course, there you can see the balcony… above us that will be preserved
and then you know, worked. The restoration will be around the designs that existed then.CLARK: Isn’t that something? Yeah. This is really great. Now, see…
HAY: There’s more over on that wall.
CLARK: Right, now see, that’s what I’m trying to… and I’m trying to remember…
why would… now what is this here? I don’t remember this at all.HAY: I’m not sure that existed. I think they just put that in for color.
CLARK: Oh, OK. Now I was going to say I don’t remember that at all.
DOWNEY: Judy?
CLARK: Yes, ma’am.
DOWNEY: Did they have like a drop curtain of some kind… ?
CLARK: Like at the Capitol?
DOWNEY: Something on the sides and something that dropped down from the top?
CLARK: And it would… somewhere…
DOWNEY: I don’t know where it started. It seemed like it opened like you would a
play, like a…CLARK: Well, that definitely did at the Capitol.
DOWNEY: I think it did.
CLARK: And I’m sure that this did, too. You have not seen any type of a pulley
or anything up at the top?DOWNEY: See, you can see something up at the top here, that looks like a…
CLARK: That would draw, I mean… big, elaborate drapes.
HAY: You can see a black line.
DOWNEY: Uh huh. That… and I think, the ceiling’s the same.
STEWART: They were like heavy… belts.
CLARK: Oh yeah, they were belted.
DOWNEY: Yes, they were belted. And they would open from the side.
HAY: What color do you think they were?
CLARK: Burgundy.
STEWART: I’m thinking dark burgundy… It seems like the Capitol was dark blue.
DOWNEY: It was dark blue, and it was burgundy.
HAY: See that structure… that sort of rust-colored structure going up? That
could be the support for that curtain you’re talking about.CLARK: Yeah, cause see that beam? That… alright now, I don’t know what this…
DOWNEY: You can see it going all the way across.
CLARK: Uh huh. And I would suppose… that would be where the drape was. Because
like I said, it would be like presenting a great play. And the drapes would open. That is… now you wouldn’t see this unless that you were here before the very first feature… went on.HAY: So, it would be closed before?
CLARK: Yes, it would be closed, and then they would open that up.
DOWNEY: That’s marvelous.
CLARK: This is really something, and oh, yes, you know, I do remember these
things here. Now are they going to… what will they do with this?HAY: We’re not sure...
CLARK: What they’re going to do?
HAY: Because of the cost… and the whether we’ll be able to preserve the actual
wall. But we could then recreate the wall.CLARK: OK.
HAY: Those are questions that are unanswered at the moment. But it’s a great
design, isn’t it?CLARK: Oh, yes, yes.
HAY: And of course, we have a theme behind this wall yet, but we assume…
CLARK: That it’s the same thing. Well I’m sure that it is, I’m sure that it is.
HAY: And you see… that it’s staggered, the way the slope goes down?
CLARK: Mmm hmm. Yeah, see how far up they are, up there? And then it, then it
starts coming down?HAY: I don’t know if that white… area, the white bar might be like the railing
like at a hand level.CLARK: I’m, I’m just trying to think. The seats were…
DOWNEY: The floor was built up?
HAY: Yes. So the sloped floor is still under here.
DOWNEY: Oh, it is.
HAY: They’re, they’re planning is literally jack hammering this floor and
finding the sloped floor below.DOWNEY: That is great!
CLARK: I was just looking down at this to see if there was anything where you
could see where that… the seats were attached… because they came… all the way over. There was not an aisle out here.HAY: Do you think, think that’s what these are?
CLARK: That’s what I’m wondering.
HAY: Cause this, this was arm level, let’s say. That would make sense.
CLARK: Because you could only get through…
HAY: Down this middle…
CLARK: Down this aisle, and then there was an aisle over on the other side. So
the seats, and this just seems so… so small now, compared to what I remember it as a child.HAY: Upstairs, we could see the, the seats were painted around. You can actually
see the contour of the seat on the wall.CLARK: And I, I, I am. I’m going to sit here for a second. I’m just trying to
think if, if I am getting this confused with, with the Capitol. Because at the Capitol, you had the two, the two aisles that you went, went in. And, and then you could walk all the way down… as a teenager, we would scout out the theatre to see who was there. So, we would… we may be seated like where I am now. And then, all down in the front was a brass railing that had a short skirt and then had like two or three steps that you stepped down. So you were actually head level to the stage where that they used to use that for Vaudeville acts also. And… so we would walk there, and then we would come up on the other side, but as I’m sitting here remembering the Grand, it seems like to me that the seats… that I may have this wrong. That this… that the seats were all across. And that you just had the two aisles on the side. So that may be why there isn’t anything that connects like that you have found up there. Girls, do you remember that at all? I’m trying to, I’m trying to remember. I said I’m probably getting the Grand and the Capitol confused. In the Capitol, you walked in and you had seats over on this side, say, eight or nine, and then you had the aisle, and then you had the section that had, what, twelve or fifteen. And then you had another aisle, and then you had the same amount on the other side. Alright now, the Grand… Pat,, you may have remembered, did it just have the aisles on the sides?STEWART: I thought they were only on the sides.
CLARK: See, now that’s what I was telling Joanna, I think now that my memory’s
coming back a little bit that the Grand was just all like what this is here, in the center. And that they were on the… the aisles were on the outside.STEWART: Yeah, I can remember when… you would act up, they would bring you out
here and make you go up. Because I wasn’t a good child. [Laughter – Clark] I mean, I was bad. They’d take you out the back door and make you go out on the street.HAY: Would the usher come and take you out, or the manager?
STEWART: I don’t even remember a manager here.
CLARK: Now, they had, they had ushers at the Capitol. And I’m sure that they did
here, too. They probably did. But this is really…so that’s, that’s probably why you do not see anything connected… because, after reminiscing, I think that the aisles were on the sides.HAY: Well, this is, there are 200 chairs in here right now that you can see,
business chairs, and apparently there were 600 seats down here.CLARK: Oh, yeah, I mean, it was…
STEWART: It just seems so small.
CLARK: I know it, it sure does.
HAY: So they were, they were tiny, and all packed…
CLARK: They were… right, right, and they just.
HAY: 250 upstairs.
STEWART: Wow.
HAY: And the best… in the foundation plans, the best we can get with fire code
and the standard size of people now is 430… So you realize how…CLARK: Oh, everybody… The seats were really small, and of course, we were much
smaller then, you know, even as teenagers. It was very…HAY: But everybody… do you remember the ceiling? You were nestled in there.
CLARK: Oh yeah. You sure were. And then, only time I was ever in the balcony at
the Capitol was when they would be sold out like Gone With the Wind. I can remember Gone With the Wind.Interview with Virginia Brooks; Sheila Mason in attendance; John Hay on camera
39:33
Location: The lobby of the Grand Theatre.
HAY: We have a little lavalier microphone, which is attached to your lapel.
MASON: Did you see those creases in those jeans? [Laughing]
HAY: Do you just do… do you do?
BROOKS: Yeah, uh huh, I usually do, but I press it before I put it back on. [Laughing]
HAY: That is… classy lady, right?
MASON: You could just throw it in the dryer, but…
BROOKS: There were two ladies following me around Kroger when they visited about
a couple of years ago. And they come up to me looking at me, and so, and they asked me where something was on the shelf, and I showed them, and then one said to the other, “Do you iron your jeans?” [Laughter] I said, “Yes.” She said, “Honey, I just take mine out of the dryer and put them on.” [Laughter]HAY: Yours look nicer. They go with the pleats, too, huh, with the pleats.
[Laughing – Brooks] Well, I’m going to attach this to you right here [attaching microphone].BROOKS: OK.
HAY: Is the microphone on, John?
HAY, JOHN: It’s on.
HAY: Now I could… Sheila? I could feed this through her sweatshirt. What do you
think? It’d be a little easier.MASON: Easier for her…
HAY: Would you mind if we fed this up through your sweatshirt?
BROOKS: I don’t mind. I don’t care.
HAY: So I can drop down, that’s usually the easiest.
[Sound goes out while Hay adjusts the microphone.]
HAY: This was for the real estate office.
BROOKS: Uh huh. Yeah.
HAY: Are you getting her voice alright?
HAY, JOHN: Yes, uh huh.
HAY: But when, when you came in, you would have… cut to the ticket booth.
BROOKS: You’d come to the ticket booth, and then you would go upstairs. And
there was a lady that took the tickets upstairs. And there was a… popcorn machine sitting right there by her chair. [Laughing] And then, she had… Roberta Wilson was the one, the main one here. And then Ms. Cally Weathers would fill in for her sometimes.HAY: Cally… ?
BROOKS: W-e-a-t-h Weathers. She would fill in sometimes. And there was another
lady who would fill in sometimes. She used to run the elevator down at the McLure building, and she was Mrs. Burl Tilman. I only know her husband’s name. But I’m going by her husband’s name during that time. Because his name was Burl Tilman. And that’s all I can say. And so anyway… but I liked the Westerns. [Laughing] There was a movie, a serial, and a comedy. [Laughing] And I would get me something to eat… and we would share me something, you know, enjoy myself, you know doing that, but I can’t remember too many movies that I saw here. I can remember Pinky and… I think [Senior’s Blues – unclear – at 42:37]… some of those, you know, but as I said, as my kids was growing up, I wasn’t able to attend the movies. But then I would go to Lexington and different places to movies… and change it around because…HAY: Well, what I thought we could do… I want to just tour, I want to show you
around this area just to get your bearings on where we are. And then what we’ll do, is we’ll go upstairs, and then I want to sit you down, and then we’ll just, we’ll do like a real interview.BROOKS: OK.
HAY: Where we can talk in more detail…
BROOKS: OK.
HAY: About what you remember about the building, or what movies you came to see,
or who was here. But first of all, we could just walk through, and as I was telling you, this is the old Vaudeville wall from the 1910, which you never would have seen.BROOKS: No.
HAY: It was covered up during the... during the time after 1941. But we could
just walk back. Of course, there were the two different entrances, weren’t there?BROOKS: Mmm hmm, yeah. [Laughing]
HAY: This… this way is the hallway is the way that took you to the downstairs.
BROOKS: Uh huh. Boy, I’m telling you.
HAY: And all this is from the real estate office.
BROOKS: Oh, I see.
HAY: It’s… that’ll all come out.
BROOKS: Uh huh.
HAY: [Indicating the hallway wall] This would have been the same. This would
have been from 1941.BROOKS: Yeah.
HAY: Same décor. This of course is the downstairs, the downstairs hallway. And
you haven’t been here in…BROOKS: Oh, it’s been years since I’ve been in here. I’m telling, I’m just
trying to think… because I imagine it was back in… maybe the late 60’s, I guess.HAY: Well this is what it looks like now.
BROOKS: Mmm hmm. I’m telling you.
HAY: Apparently, that… the stencils on that wall were there. Those were exposed
when we took out the other wall.BROOKS: Mmm hmm.
HAY: And then these designs were on the walls down here. We’ve got them covered
up with blankets just to absorb the sound for a concert.BROOKS: I see. Uh huh.
HAY: But I’ll just… walk you up here.
BROOKS: Now, these are, these are the main seats that were here?
HAY: No, these were donated recently…
BROOKS: Oh, I see.
HAY: From a church.
BROOKS: Oh, I see. I didn’t think they were [Laughing] I didn’t think they were…
because I think they were wood seats. We didn’t have any cushions in the seats.HAY: Were they hard?
BROOKS: Oh, yeah, but if the movie was interesting, you didn’t notice it too
much. [Laughing]HAY: Now, I understand they were very small and close together.
BROOKS: Uh huh, they were. Uh huh, they were. Uh huh. And they always were
flipped up like this. They make a noise when you sit in them, you know, those kind.HAY: They kind of go “clank”.
BROOKS: Mmm hmm. Yeah.
HAY: So, of course, the stage is new. That wasn’t there. And if you look back,
up, up this way, the lights are kind of bright, but there is the balcony. And if you shade… if you shade your eyes from those lights a little bit… you can see a little bit.BROOKS: Yeah, I see. I can see it. I’m telling you. Mmm, mmm, mmm. You’ve still
a lot of work to be done, isn’t it?HAY: [45:40 I can’t hear the response.]
BROOKS: Oooeee! You’ve got a long way to go. I’m telling you. [Laughter]
HAY: And then when you look at the wall and the ceiling.
BROOKS: Oh, gracious. The building really deteriorated.
HAY: Yes.
BROOKS: Yes, it really deteriorated.
HAY: Well it just sat… it just sat here abandoned. They used this for that
auction. They used it for the auction house.BROOKS: Auction, yeah, uh huh.
HAY: And… they covered the walls with white plaster board. And the theatre just
sat, sat behind the walls.BROOKS: Was it Morris’s Auction House? Morris’s?
HAY: Yes. Real Estate and Auction. And they had a low ceiling. You see that line
along that wall? They had a drop ceiling in. So… they weren’t losing their heat. And, so of course, all of the balcony and everything was just hiding up there.BROOKS: Mmm hmm. What do you have for things over here? Do you use this part?
HAY: Yeah. We can’t use the balcony yet. But we can use all of this.
BROOKS: No, it’s nothing like I... [Laughing] We used to be up in the balcony
and look down.HAY: Well, we’re going to go up there next.
BROOKS: OK. [Laughing] Yeah, I know how they’re always saying “Save The Grand,
Save The Grand.” [Laughing] It’s going to take a lot to save the Grand, too.HAY: Look at the structure of these huge beams here. It’s a strong building.
BROOKS: Yeah, you don’t see those kind of things now.
HAY: Nope.
BROOKS: Because they build them over night now. [Laughing]
HAY: And we’ve got the… They think we’re a real movie theatre. And they keep
sending us all the new movie posters.BROOKS: Yeah.
HAY: So we just have them there. People can donate five bucks for a movie poster
if they want one. And you know kids like them in their bedrooms and stuff.BROOKS: Yes, uh huh. And I can’t remember even what the fare was to get in… what
we had to pay to get in… I don’t remember what the fare was. I lived in my home town before I left in Lancaster. We got in for ten cents! [Laughter] Cause I was a young kid then.HAY: Is that right?
BROOKS: Yeah. But I was trying to think. I don’t remember what we had to pay for
a ticket over here.HAY: Right. [Looking at posters] All the new movies. We don’t know what to do
with all these posters.BROOKS: I’m telling you. Ooo hoo hoo… Well, do you think you’ll be successful in
your endeavor?HAY: Well, it’s all… everything’s going green light. And everything’s getting
the support. People are coming, and…BROOKS: Yeah, I saw where the tax… passed.
HAY: And the tax passed.
BROOKS: Yeah, I saw that… [Laughing] I don’t think everybody’s happy about it! [Laughing]
HAY: I know. I know, but we’ll all be able to look back and decide whether it
was a good thing or not. So, I think it will be…BROOKS: So, they going to turn it into a real, a theatre where you have plays
and… different things?HAY: Plays, and like tonight, the Frankfort youth are coming… We’ve got students
from the different high schools and middle schools who are going to be performing. And so it will be for local things and then it will also be for… like we had Patricia Neale? Do you remember the actress Patricia Neale from the 1950’s?BROOKS: Uh huh, yeah.
HAY: She came… she came.
BROOKS: Yeah, I remember seeing her picture in the paper. [Laughing]
HAY: So things like that, you know, a performing arts center, dance… we’ll have
dance and film and…BROOKS: Yeah, I was reading where they said that… Shelbyville had one.
[Laughing] But the capitol city doesn’t have one! [Laughing]HAY: So, you know, it’s been a, it’s been a lot of work, and as you can see,
there’s a long way to go.BROOKS: Oooo, don’t I know! [Laughing] Ooooeee, I’m telling you.
HAY: If you don’t get started on something and make a big leap to try it, you
can’t move forward.BROOKS: Yeah.
HAY: Now I’ve got some water for you upstairs. Do you want a soft drink or anything?
BROOKS: No, I don’t care for anything. I take medicine and everything it
wouldn’t be right. [Laughing]HAY: OK. To come back down the stairs.
BROOKS: Where do those steps go to right there?
HAY: That’s an exit.
BROOKS: Oh, I see now.
HAY: Yeah. And people can get soft drinks here, and we give away free popcorn.
BROOKS: I don’t deal with popcorn too much. I don’t like it, you know, up in my
teeth? [Laughing]HAY: No. The popcorn machine’s broken anyway. [Laughter] That fits in with
everything else.BROOKS: [Looking at the wall] Well, look at this. Boy, I’m telling you. I didn’t
pay attention to what it was like as you come in the door there, you know. I say, I’m telling you.HAY: Yeah? Because it looks like a little office.
BROOKS: Yes it does.
HAY: It’s not very… it’s not very inviting, is it?
BROOKS: No, you’re right about that. [Laughing]
HAY: The bathroom is right here… if you should want to use it before we go.
BROOKS: Well I don’t think so. I did before I come. [Laughing]
HAY: There isn’t one upstairs. [Laughing – Brooks]
BROOKS: I’m telling you. Yes sir.
HAY: People have been having a good time when they come. I love the history of
the place.BROOKS: Yeah, I’m telling you. It brings back a lot of memories, you know. I
think about… there were times I could walk across—this was South Frankfort, East Fourth Street—I could walk across the bridge at night, in the dark, because one thing wasn’t nothing the matter with it, but you wouldn’t do it now. [Laughing]HAY: Times have changed, yeah.
BROOKS: Yes, I’m telling you.
HAY: So, Sheila, let’s think about a strategy for the stairs.
MASON: Um…
HAY: She could go up on my arm…
MASON: And I’ll stand behind you.
HAY: And you stand behind.
BROOKS: Now who would catch me if I…?
HAY: Now she’s going to catch you behind, and I’m going to stand next to you.
BROOKS: Yes, sir. Now the pop machine… the popcorn machine use to sit right in
the middle just about. And there was a chair on each side where Ms. Wilson sat, and she was just like a patrolman. [Laughing] She would be on patrol, and she walks up to the, to the entrance, you know where you turn and come in to the seats and then she would just look around. Then she’d take a stroll all the way down to all those. [Laughing] She was, she was very good to keep order, you know? But the rest of them, they didn’t come in much, but she would. She would always come in and check if there was any noise or anything, you know. And I’m telling you, whoo eee! What’s back here? Oh, this is where… I’m telling you, this is where you… you went in and… I’m not going any further in here! [Laughing] Ooo, Jesus. Now this part is familiar. [Laughing] It’s familiar. Yes, I’m telling you. And most of the… most of the time, I would take a seat right along about the second or the third row. [Laughing] Yeah, back up there was where the, all them… picture date… all that was back up there, best I can remember. [Laughing] Yeah, I’m telling you. But this part hasn’t changed much, has it? Hasn’t’ changed at all. Because Ms. Wilson would walk all the way across there, all the way to here, then she’d turn around and go back on the other side, and then she’d go back down, you know? Yeah, I’m telling you. Yes, a lot of memories, I’m telling you… All the old equipment’s been thrown away.HAY: All the chairs are gone, all the equipment is gone, but we have, we were
donated all the new equipment, projection equipment… So we still have movies from out… from the old projection booth.BROOKS: Yeah.
HAY: Do you remember going into the, do you remember the old projection booth there?
BROOKS: Yes, I remember that. Quite well, yes indeed. Because I would, I would
never sit down here most of the time, I would would always sit back like about the third row or second or third row all the time. [Laughing]HAY: Usually to the righ?
BROOKS: Yes, that’s where I would all the time, yeah I’m telling you. [Laughing]
HAY: And you can’t, those curtains are up there just for the sound, but do you
remember the corners? You know, there are those dark corners up in there? More seats were up in those corners?BROOKS: Yeah, uh huh, yeah I remember that, too. Yes sir.
HAY: So not much has changed up here?
BROOKS: Not up here! No, all this is familiar. Nothing’s changed. I’m telling you.
HAY: What kind of seats were up here?
BROOKS: They were wood seats. They were wood seats, the kind that like when
you’d sit in them, most time they would turn up. You see those kind, and then they would come down when you sat in them. They were all wood seats. Yeah, I’m telling you.HAY: And do you remember it, do you remember the colors, or… do you remember the
railing at all?BROOKS: The railings were like this only I think they were either painted brass
or looked like they were brass. [Laughing] Or they were painted brass, I don’t know if they were pure brass or just painted brass. Yeah, the railings were, yes.HAY: Do you remember what age, what age were you when you came up here?
BROOKS: Oh, I guess I was in my… let me see… when I first came up here, I guess
I was probably in my late thirties or somewhere along in there. Cause I’ve been in Frankfort ever since ’47. [Laughing] Yeah, I’m telling you. Cause I said to the later years, we started going other places to the movies, you know, then when TV came along, it knocked out... a lot of the theatres. [Laughing]HAY: You’d stay home.
BROOKS: Yeah, cause all you’d have to do is wait a while you’d see the movies
on… [Laughing]HAY: That’s right.
BROOKS: Yes, I’m telling you.
HAY: Well, that’s great. So, what we’re going to do next, is I’m going to, we’re
going to switch John off, and I’m going to have you sit down here. And we’ll… and then we’ll just sit and I’ll just ask you some questions, and we can just chat some more. Does that sound good?BROOKS: That’s OK with me, uh huh, yeah. I won’t hold you up here.
55:50 END OF WALKING INTERVIEWS TAPE
1:00