Oral History Interview with Rev. Richard Hill

Partial Transcript: My name is Reverend Richard Hill, I was born in Jeffersonville, Indiana on April the 18, 1933.

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill was born and raised in Jeffersonville, Indiana. Hill felt a calling to the ministry when he was in high school, but decided to go into the military once he graduated high school. After completing his military service, Hill briefly attended Indiana University Jeffersonville Extension Center before transferring to Simmons Bible College in Louisville. Hill graduated with a bachelor's degree in theology from Simmons Bible College and also studied Greek and Hebrew. Hill went on to get a bachelor's degree in history from Cumberland College in 1971, and a master's degree in education from Union College in Barbourville in 1974.

Keywords: Preachers; Indiana University Jeffersonville Extension Center; Simmons Bible College; Simmons College of Kentucky

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Jeffersonville (Ind.); Military; Education--Higher; High school; Cumberland College (Williamsburg, Ky.); Union College (Barbourville, Ky.); Religion; Christianity; Theology; Louisville (Ky.); Greek; Hebrew; Bible colleges; History; Sociology

Partial Transcript: . . . You had already come to the area, to London, Kentucky . . . in order to preach. Now how did that happen? How did you wind up in--in London?

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill describes the circumstances through which he became the pastor at Mill Street Baptist Church in London, Kentucky. Hill explains that Mill Street Baptist Church was the only Black Baptist church in London in 1961. During this time, Hill was a student at Simmons Bible College in Louisville. The white Baptist churches in London were assisting Mill Street Baptist Church with its search for a new pastor. Hill says that William J. Holmes, the President of Simmons Bible College recommended him to the group of white Baptist church leaders and the Kentucky Baptist Convention to be the pastor of Mill Street Baptist Church. Hill says that he had a dream around this time about a church that had weeds and vines behind the building. When Hill got to Mill Street Baptist Church, the back of the church was exactly like his dream. Hill remembers that his first sermon at the church was to three congregants. Hill recalls that he arrived in London in September of 1962 with his family, just in time to enroll his eldest son in the first grade at London Elementary School.

Keywords: Preachers; Ministers; Baptist churches; Black churches; Simmons Bible College of Kentucky; Congregants; William J. Holmes; Family; Wife; London Elementary School (London, Ky.); Whites

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Baptists; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Race; Racism; Prejudice; Leadership; Indiana; Louisville (Ky.); Discrimination; Dreams; Kentucky Baptist Convention; Children; Education

Partial Transcript: What were some of the differences that you found though in the community in--in London as compared to where you had lived before in Indiana and in Louisville?

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill says that most Blacks in the London area were employed as domestic workers for private families when he first arrived there in 1962. Hill worked to build inroads with prominent white leaders in London, joining the London Ministerial Association, which was composed of pastors from white churches. Hill says that his efforts to establish connections with white church leaders helped his congregants and other members of the Black community to obtain jobs at places where Blacks had never worked before, including the London tuberculosis hospital and the Caron Spinning Company. Hill also helped Blacks to get jobs at factories in nearby Corbin.

Keywords: Black churches; Mill Street Baptist Church (London, Ky.); Ministers; Preachers; Domestic workers; Whites; Congregants; Workplace discrimination; London Ministerial Association; London State Tuberculosis Sanatorium; Integration; Desegregation; Caron Spinning Company

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Church; Baptists; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Unemployment; Prejudice; Discrimination; Race; Racism; Opportunity; Work; Hospitals; Careers; Factories; Corbin (Ky.); Segregation

Partial Transcript: She worked in American Greeting. They were--um--she eventually--uh--quit because--uh--there was too much--uh--prejudice she just couldn't--couldn't--uh--take it.

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill says that his wife was one of the first Black women to work at the American Greeting Card Company factory in Corbin. Hill says that his wife faced so much prejudice and harassment that she decided to quit her job at American Greeting. Hill explains that Corbin, Kentucky has a reputation for being a racist town. Hill appeared on a documentary by Robby Henson about Corbin's history of racism called "The Trouble Behind" in 1991.

Keywords: Pastors; Ministers; Preachers; Railroad towns; Robby Henson; Documentaries; Trouble Behind (Documentary); Wife; Racial slurs

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Race; Racism; Prejudice; Discrimination; Baptists; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Corbin (Ky.); Reputation; American Greeting Card Co.; Slurs; Harassment

Partial Transcript: Now did--did people encounter similar situations in London?

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill states that it was easier to get Blacks hired and accepted at segregated places of employment in London compared to Corbin. Hill believes that the difference between these two communities lies in the history of racial prejudice in Corbin. Hill describes his process for getting Blacks hired at previously segregated workplaces. Hill would talk to the managers at the various workplaces and asked them to hire Black applicants and encouraged congregants and community members to apply for jobs at the employers he had previously visited.

Keywords: Preachers; Ministers; Whites; Workplace discrimination; Griffin Pie Company; Employers; Job applications; Integration; Griffin Pie Company; Caron Spinning Company

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Discrimination; Prejudice; Racism; Corbin (Ky.); Work; Harassment; Danville (Ky.); History; Race; Segregation; Managers; Factories; Work; Opportunity

Partial Transcript: Didn't have the problem in London about hiring--the--that we had in Corbin. And I--I think it's because--uh--London was more accepting--uh--then perhaps Corbin was. Corbin had a history of a--race problems.

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill remembers that two congregants from Corbin told him about the Corbin, Kentucky race riot of 1919. On October 31st, 1919, all of the Black railroad workers in Corbin were run out of town by a white mob. Hill experienced prejudice and racism while in Corbin during the 1960s. Hill and his wife were shopping in Corbin and a young white girl remarked to her mother "what's that?" while pointing to Hill and his wife. The girl's mother told her to be careful or "they might get her." Hill also preached at the main white Baptist churches in Corbin and held revivals in the nearby community of Woodbine. Hill says that he never ran into any issues with racism until he preached in the small community of Hawk Creek, which is located between London and Somerset.

Keywords: Preachers; Ministers; Whites; Black churches; Mill Street Baptist Church (London, Ky.); Wife; Congregants; Trouble Behind (Documentary); White Baptist churches; Central Baptist Church (Corbin, Ky.); Good Hope Baptist Church (Corbin, Ky.); Woodbine (Ky.); Hawk Creek (Ky.); Corbin, Kentucky race riot of 1919; Railroad workers

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Race; Racism; Prejudice; Corbin (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); London (Ky.); Baptists; History; Threats; Discrimination; Railroads; Shopping; Segregation; Children; Fear; Preaching; Communities; Safety; Somerset (Ky.); Race riots

Partial Transcript: I preached at Hawk Creek it's a Baptist Church . . . and we escaped there with our lives.

Segment Synopsis: In the mid-1960s, Rev. Hill was invited by his fellow preacher and insurance agent to preach to his white congregation in Hawks Creek, located between London and Somerset, Kentucky. Hill went down to preach with his congregants and instructed everyone to park their cars facing towards London in case something was to happen after the service. During the service, Hill observed that his choir had seen people looking through the church's windows. Hill then felt that the Lord was telling him to leave the church. Hill told the pastor and his congregation that he had to leave since it was getting late and Hill was scheduled to teach Sunday School the next morning back in London. As Hill and his congregants prepared to leave, a white mob appeared from out of a nearby grocery store and tried to stop them from getting to their cars. Hill stayed behind until all of his congregants had made it to their cars. As Hill came in the last car behind his congregants, the crowd tried to block him from leaving. Hill was able to get away from the crowd and joined his congregants at Mill Street Baptist Church late into the night. Hill says that many people were too afraid to go home and be alone and opted to stay and pray at church. The preacher found out about the incident and apologized, but Hill dropped him as an insurance agent and vowed to never bring his congregants with him to another congregation again.

Keywords: Preachers; Ministers; White Baptist churches; Hawk Creek (Ky.); Whites; East Bernstadt (Ky.); Cars; Departure; Racial slurs; Ott's Grocery (London, Ky.); Mill Street Baptist Church (London, Ky.); Congregants

Subjects: Preaching; Blacks; Baptists; African Americans; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Race; Discrimination; Prejudice; Racism; Insurance agents; Windows; Choir; Safety; Fear; Threats; Danger; Slurs; Grocery stores; Mobs; Running; Crowds; Nineteen sixties; Civil rights movement; Prayers; Somerset (Ky.); Chrisitans

Partial Transcript: . . . Did you feel like--um--that was part of your calling to address the racial issues within the community--

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill explains that he feels called by God to preach in white churches. Hill has preached in churches in Manchester, Clay County, and Letcher County without any racial incidents. Hill learned from his experience at Hawks Creek not to take congregants with him to other churches unless they insist upon going. Hill explains that he feels safer preaching in London because he knows more community leaders there than in other places. Hill says that a group of white preachers came to check on him after the incident at Hawks Creek. The preachers told Hill that Hawks Creek was well-known as a very prejudiced area. Hill states that the racial incident at Hawks Creek did not make him bitter towards white people, but he wished that someone had told him about the reputation of Hawks Creek and other areas that were notorious for racism and hatred. Hill says that there are many prejudiced areas that still exist throughout the country today.

Keywords: Preachers; Ministers; White Baptist churches; Black churches; Hawks Creek (Ky.); House

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Baptists; Christians; Laurel County (Ky.); London (Ky.); Preaching; Manchester (Ky.); Clay County (Ky.); Race; Racism; Prejudice; Discrimination; Letcher County (Ky.); Safety; Danger; Corbin (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: So, when you first arrived in '62, how large was the congregation at Mill Street . . .

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill recalls that there were three people in attendance at his first sermon as the pastor of Mill Street Baptist Church. Hill was able to grow the congregation to around forty-five or fifty regular attendees to Sunday services in his ten years as pastor. Hill explains that there is a relatively small Black population in London and that many congregants came from East Bernstadt. Hill organized a church youth group that met on Wednesdays and offered recreational activities such as swimming at Levi Jackson Park during the summers.

Keywords: Congregants; Pastors; Preachers; Ministers; Mill Street Baptist Church (London, Ky.); Black churches; Baptist churches; Saved (Religion); Religious conversions; East Bernstadt (Ky.); Youth groups; Levi Jackson Wilderness Road Park (London, Ky.)

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Baptists; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Youth; Preaching; Growth; Sermons; Church; Christianity; Sunday schools; Recreation; Swimming; Games

Partial Transcript: . . . Or how did you go about motivating people--I guess to--to go out and--um--become you know, leaders in their own way?

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill explains that he was able to help people in the Black community gain access to segregated workplaces through the connections he made with various people in London. Hill developed a close bond with a congregation in East Bernstadt, since the church's pastor commuted from Louisville and only came for Sunday services. Hill then became the person that congregants in East Bernstadt turned to during the week when their pastor was not in town. Hill also fostered relationships with prominent judges. Hill says that the judges trusted him so much that they would occasionally release inmates who were congregants from jail into Hill's custody, knowing that he would bring them back for their court appearances. Hill adds that living in London gave him easier access to community leaders, such as the manager at Kern's Bakery.

Keywords: Black churches; Congregants; Griffin Pie Company; East Bernstadt (Ky.); Preachers; Ministers; Connections; Jail; Kerns Bakery (London, Ky.)

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Leaders; Leadership; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Communities; Baptists; Opportunity; Friendship; Preaching; Communication; Louisville (Ky.); Judges; Counseling; Courthouses; Trust; Work

Partial Transcript: I--I constantly--uh--talked about the education--uh--from the pulpit.

Segment Synopsis: Hill says that he emphasized the importance of education to youth in his congregation, and that he would preach about the value of education. Hill says that having role models in the congregation such as teachers and the example of his own educational attainments helped motivate many young congregants to attend schools such as Berea College and Eastern Kentucky University.

Keywords: Preachers; Ministers; Mill Street Baptist Church (London, Ky.)

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Youth; Church; Laurel County (Ky.); London (Ky.); Education--Higher; Values; Preaching; Role models; Berea College; Education; Training; Teachers; Eastern Kentucky University

Partial Transcript: Well, one reason why I felt like that I needed more education is because I had a growing family.

Segment Synopsis: Hill explains that he decided to go back to college and earn a bachelor's degree in part because he wanted to have better options for a supplemental income to support his family. Hill had been living and working in London as a preacher for about eight years when he decided that his salary as a preacher would not be enough to put his children through school. Hill then worked as a part-time caretaker for a retired judge. Hill recalls that the judge made a racist remark, which motivated him to seek opportunities to go back to college. Hill met with the president of Cumberland College, J.M. Boswell and ultimately passed the entrance exam and was accepted into Cumberland College. Hill finished his bachelor's degree in three years, in part due to transfer credits that were accepted from his time spent at Indiana University Jeffersonville Extension Center.

Keywords: Family; Preachers; Ministers; Son; Daughter; Wife; Caretaking; Bathing; J.M. Boswell; James Boswell; Entrance exam; Indiana University Jeffersonville Extension Center; Whites

Subjects: Laurel County (Ky.); London (Ky.); Blacks; African Americans; Children; Money; Education--Higher; Judges; Sick; Money; Shaving; Income; Cumberland College (Williamsburg, Ky.); Debt; Racism; Prejudice; Discrimination; Motivation

Partial Transcript: Now, what did you end up studying?

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill decided to major in history at Cumberland College instead of religion, since he felt that history would be the more practical degree. Hill also minored in sociology and earned a teaching certificate while studying at Cumberland College. Hill ended up being a substitute teacher to help supplement his income. Hill graduated from Cumberland College with a bachelor's degree in history around 1970 or 1971. During this time, Hill was invited to preach in Cristóbal, Panama by the Southern Baptist Convention. Hill says that he was the first Black North American to preach in Panama. Hill went on to earn a master's in education from Union College in Barbourville in 1974. After completing his master's degree, Hill was called to the First Baptist Church in Danville.

Keywords: Pastors; Ministers; Preachers; Teaching certificates; Laurel County Schools; Black churches; First Baptist Church (Danville, Ky.); Mill Street Baptist Church (London, Ky.)

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Education--Higher; Cumberland College (Williamsburg, Ky.); History; Sociology; Substitute teaching; Substitute teachers; Panama; International travel; Preaching; Southern Baptist Convention; Revivals; Cristóbal (Panama); Education; Union College (Barbourville, Ky.); Danville (Ky.); Baptists

Partial Transcript: So . . . when you left in 1974, from London, what kind of changes had you seen in the community, from the time that you arrived in--around 1962 to 1974 . . . can you think of the major changes in the African American community during the years that you were in London?

Segment Synopsis: One of the changes that Rev. Hill has observed between when he arrived in London in 1962 and moved away in 1974 was that whites as a whole were more accepting of the Black community. Hill hopes that he helped change the perception whites had of the Black community through his work to help secure employment for Blacks in previously segregated workplaces. Hill thinks that the economic situation for the Black community improved because of access to these new jobs. Hill adds that he comes back often to preach for the funerals of former congregants. Hill has observed that there is a lot more shopping and urban development in London now since he last lived there in the 1970s.

Keywords: Accepting; Whites; White Baptist churches; Black churches; Caron Spinning Company; Laurel Heights Nursing Home (London, Ky.); Funerals; Congregants

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; Church; Baptists; Change; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Race; Racism; Prejudice; Discrimination; Preaching; Work; Opportunity; Economics; Money; Factories; Nursing homes; Shopping; Urban development; Rural development; Growth; Population

Partial Transcript: What--what do you think about what's being done with the--with the church now? As you know . . . the Mill Street Baptist Church is now being converted into an African American heritage center . . .

Segment Synopsis: Rev. Hill says that he is in favor of the plan to turn in the old Mill Street Baptist Church building into the Laurel County African American Heritage Center. Ideally, Hill would like to reestablish a Black church in London, but he says that there is a lack of support from the white community to make it happen. Hill thinks that the heritage center will help to preserve the history of Blacks in Laurel County. Hill believes that having a Black church is important for the London Black community, so that congregants can express themselves and worship in a way that is different to how white churches tend to worship. Hill agrees with the interviewer that Blacks attending some of the white churches in London can sometimes feel constrained from the way they are used to worshipping.

Keywords: Black churches; Laurel County African American Heritage Center; Preachers; Mill Street Baptist Church (London, Ky.); White churches; Constraint

Subjects: Blacks; African Americans; London (Ky.); Laurel County (Ky.); Church; Religion; Culture; History; Death; Worship; Religion; Christianity; Behavior