Oral History Interview with Woodrow Burchett Part 1

Partial Transcript: . . . Just beginning with when you first met him.

Segment Synopsis: Burchett met Combs in the early 1940s when Combs moved to Prestonsburg. The two remained neighbors for about a decade and were both attorneys. Burchett served as Floyd County attorney, while Combs worked in corporate law. Combs and Burchett initially lived in smaller homes downtown adjacent to the First National Bank, but soon moved to larger homes near Prestonsburg's waterfront.

Keywords: Bert Combs; Family; County attorney; Combs & Combs Law Firm; First National Bank (Prestonsburg, Ky.)

Subjects: Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Governors; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Lawyers; Corporate law; Floyd County (Ky.); Neighbors; Friendship

Partial Transcript: But--uh--there's a lot of funny things happening--uh--[clears throat] in--uh--the law practice. And--uh--I've been able to see the funny side [clears throat] and Bert Combs has always been able to see the funny side.

Segment Synopsis: Burchett discusses the circumstances behind the first legal case that Combs took on in Prestonsburg. It was a criminal case against a woman who was accused of urinating in a public spring. Burchett adds that the woman was not very well-liked in the community and had garnered a bad reputation, which may have motivated a neighbor to bring forth a criminal case against the woman for allegedly polluting the local spring. Combs was the defendant's attorney and was able to successfully argue that there was not enough evidence to prosecute his client for her alleged crime. Combs became well-known in Prestonsburg because of his success in winning the case against the state on behalf of a client with a negative reputation in the town. Burchett says that Combs' client was very thankful to him for winning the case and was a loyal political supporter of Combs. Burchett adds that Combs' former client was included in his inaugural motorcade as governor in 1959.

Keywords: Bert Combs; Combs & Combs Law Firm; Clients; County attorney; Rumors; Verdict

Subjects: Corporate law; Lawyers; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Floyd County (Ky.); Governors--Kentucky; Governors; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Springs; Warrants (Law); Trials; Politicians; Neighbors

Partial Transcript: But--uh--Combs particularly . . . but his people.

Segment Synopsis: Burchett discusses some of the stereotypes that have emerged about Appalachian people, especially from Kentuckians. In Burchett's view, a stereotypical Appalachian is a Jacksonian-like figure who is viewed as unrefined by people from outside of the region. According to Burchett's perspective as a Prestonsburg native and state government employee for eight years, eastern Kentuckians tend to hold on to the traditions passed down by their ancestors, since there has been very little recent immigration to the region. Burchett says his grandmother would use the Scottish English pronunciation for some words or phrases.

Keywords: Eastern Kentucky; Bert Combs; Western Kentucky; Central Kentucky; Andrew Jackson; Traditions

Subjects: Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Lawyers; Governors--Kentucky; Neighbors; Friendship; Appalachia; Stereotypes (Social psychology); Honesty; Louisville (Ky.); State governments; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Floyd County (Ky.); Jackson, Andrew; Population; Culture; Ancestry; Scotland; England; Accents (Vocal group); Dialects of English

Partial Transcript: I went and talked to John Ed Pearce . . .

Segment Synopsis: Burchett describes Combs as a shy person by nature, explaining that his more tough public image does not reflect what he is like in his private life. Burchett and Combs were neighbors in Prestonsburg during the 1940s. Burchett initially lived across the street from Combs and they would have breakfast together occasionally. Burchett moved to a house on Maple Avenue in Prestonsburg after he was elected county attorney and Combs soon followed suit once he became a corporate lawyer. Burchett describes Combs as a sensitive and caring person who enjoys literature and nature. Burchett says that Combs was able to maintain close friendships with people across the socioeconomic spectrum. For instance, Combs became close to the Kennedy family, which Burchett thinks may be in part attributed to the fact that both families had children with disabilities. At the same time, Burchett says Combs maintained his friendships with his hunting buddies in eastern Kentucky and never lost his mountain accent.

Keywords: Bert Combs; John Ed Pearce; Breakfast; First Commonwealth Bank (Prestonsburg, Ky.); County attorney; Maple Avenue (Prestonsburg, Ky.); Shy; Public image

Subjects: Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Governors--Kentucky; Pearce, John E.; Neighbors; Friendship; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Floyd County (Ky.); Lawyers; Corporate law; Income; Poetry; Reading; Books; Nature; Solitude; Caring; Sensitivity (Personality trait); Intelligence; Kennedy family; New England; Massachusetts; Massachusetts; Hunting; Humility; Children with disabilities; Accents (Vocal group); Appalachia; Loyalty

Partial Transcript: Bert Combs' mother, do you know about her?

Segment Synopsis: Burchett briefly discusses the influence that Combs' mother had on him. Combs' mother was a teacher and instilled a love of poetry and reading in her son. Burchett details how notable Appalachian author Harry Caudill depicted Combs in his books. Burchett discusses one of Caudill's novels that Combs had read, "Lester's Progress," which is a satirizes Appalachian life and politicians.

Keywords: Eastern Kentucky; Bert Combs; Lester's Progress (book); Martha Layne Collins; "Theirs be the Power" (book)

Subjects: Mother; Teachers; Literature; Poetry; Reading; Books; Childhood; Early life; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Governors--Kentucky; Appalachia; Caudill, Harry M., 1922-1990; Satire; Lawyers; Collins, Martha Layne; Politicians

Partial Transcript: He's--he's had some--um--martial problems that you probably know about.

Segment Synopsis: Burchett and his family got along well with Combs' first wife Mabel, when they lived in Prestonsburg. Burchett thinks that Mabel Combs struggled in her role as the first lady of Kentucky due to her reserved nature. Burchett says that Combs being elected governor was rough on his family. Combs' daughter Lois stayed in Prestonsburg and lived with the Burchett family to finish out her final year of high school rather than move to Frankfort. In Burchett's view, Lois Combs fulfilled the entertaining role of the first lady on behalf of her mother. Burchett believes that Combs and his family would have been happier if they had remained in Prestonsburg. Burchett discusses Combs' third wife, Sara Walter Combs, and how good the marriage has been for Combs. Burchett briefly discusses Combs' second marriage to Helen Rechtin and their difficult divorce. Burchett believes that there is some remaining tension between Combs' daughter and stepmother, but the family overall shares a close bond and that Lois Combs Weinberg and her brother Tommy are frequent visitors to Fern Hill.

Keywords: Mabel Hall Combs; Bert Combs; Family; Drinking; Fern Hill Estate; Sara Walter Combs; Shared interests

Subjects: Marriage; Divorce; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Wives; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Governors--Kentucky; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Floyd County (Ky.); Friendship; Neighbors; Kentucky Governor's Mansion (Frankfort, Ky.); Lawyers; Children; Fashion; Frankfort (Ky.); Alcohol; Personality; First ladies; Diplomacy; Politicians; Lifestyles; Income; Powell County (Ky.); Money; Greed; Poems; Reading; Happiness; Chores; Gardening; Interpersonal relations

Partial Transcript: But Bert Combs probably accomplished more in his term as governor than anybody in modern times has accomplished for bringing this state out, lifting it up.

Segment Synopsis: Burchett believes that Combs is one of the most accomplished and well-liked former Kentucky governors. Burchett says that Combs is well-known in Prestonsburg, but less so in other areas of eastern Kentucky such as Pineville.

Keywords: Bert Combs; Accomplishments; Eastern Kentucky; John Ed Pearce

Subjects: Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Governors--Kentucky; Respect; Appalachia; Floyd County (Ky.); Prestonsburg (Ky.); Friendship; Popularity; Pearce, John E.

Partial Transcript: . . . Wetherby was looking for somebody to run for governor--Clements and Wetherby.

Segment Synopsis: In 1955, Earle Clements and Lawrence Wetherby were looking for someone to run against Happy Chandler in the Kentucky democratic gubernatorial primary. Earle Clements wanted a candidate from eastern Kentucky to run. At the time, Combs was serving on the Kentucky Court of Appeals. Ultimately, Combs was chosen to run against Chandler. In his opening campaign speech in Shelbyville, he called for a tax increase, which in Burchett's view, doomed his campaign from the start. Burchett says that Combs was too honest not to tell voters about the need to raise taxes.

Keywords: 1955 gubernatorial campaign; Campaigning; Bert Combs; Democrats; Happy Chandler; Lawrence Wetherby; Earle Clements; Taxes; Eastern Kentucky

Subjects: Kentucky; Kentuckians; Governors--Kentucky; Campaigns; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Shelbyville (Ky.); Speeches; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Judges; Kentucky. Court of Appeals

Partial Transcript: --Um--did you ever hear about Paul Hayes writing him that speech he delivered at Covington--Newport.

Segment Synopsis: Burchett says that Combs initially struggled as a political candidate when he ran for governor the first time in 1955. Burchett recalls when one of Combs' speechwriters had him mention Martin Luther in a speech to northern Kentucky Catholics. After that incident, Combs decided to have a more improvised speaking style, which Burchett thinks was an improvement. Burchett says Combs' speaking style is similar to that of Teddy Roosevelt. Combs became known for wearing a trademark coat on the campaign trail. Burchett briefly describes his experiences of campaigning throughout the state on behalf of Combs. Burchett would visit central gathering points in small towns, such as courthouses and barbershops and sometimes would even place bets on Combs winning the election.

Keywords: Northern Kentucky; Bert Combs; Martin Luther; Teddy Roosevelt; Audience; County attorney; Henry Stumbo

Subjects: Politicians; Campaigns; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Kentucky; Kentuckians; Governors--Kentucky; Speechwriting; Speeches; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Floyd County (Ky.); Friendship; Catholics; Research; Luther, Martin; Roosevelt, Theodore, 1858-1919; Letcher County (Ky.); Coats; Inauguration; Courthouses; Barbershops; Money; Gambling

Partial Transcript: . . . He's got that sharp sense of humor.

Segment Synopsis: Burchett recalls the difficulties in selecting a democratic gubernatorial candidate to run in 1963 who could realistically beat Happy Chandler. Burchett was on the Public Services Commission with Ned Breathitt at the time and remembers that Combs wanted Henry Ward to run. Burchett thought that Breathitt would be the better candidate because he was more charismatic than Chandler. Breathitt was also increasing his public profile and notoriety with voters by attending various speaking engagements across the state. John B. Breckinridge was also considered to be a potential candidate by Combs, until he made a very off-the-wall speech about nuclear energy at a women's club. After this incident, public opinion (as reflected in letters to the editor) seemed to be leaning more towards Breathitt.

Keywords: Bert Combs; Eastern Kentucky; Democrats; Public Services Commission; Ned Breathitt; Lawrence Wetherby; Happy Chandler; Henry Ward (Kentucky politician); John Breckinridge; Louisville Courier-Journal

Subjects: Kentucky; Kentuckians; Politicians; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Appalachia; Governors--Kentucky; State governments; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-1994; Breathitt, Edward T., 1924-2003; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Speeches; Publicity; Breckinridge, John B. (John Bayne), 1913-1979; Letters to the editor; Friendship

Partial Transcript: And he'd tell me, he said, "and now you get Breathitt out--teach him . . . how to roll with these folks."

Segment Synopsis: Burchett says that a political candidate's image is very important in an election, citing Ned Breathitt's visit to a coal mine and riding into the mine with coal miners as an example. Combs supported former Louisville Mayor Harvey Sloane as a gubernatorial candidate in 1983 and wanted to Burchett to teach him how to connect with eastern Kentuckians. Burchett thinks that Sloane's focus on supporting right-to-work laws ended up hurting his campaign. Burchett emphasizes the importance of candidates being honest about their positions on issues, but not getting caught up in drawing attention to stances that are contrary to public opinion.

Keywords: Democrats; Eastern Kentucky; Beshear, Steven L., 1944-; Right-to-work laws; Campaign issues; Grady Stumbo; Court days; Political platforms; Voters; Taxes; Dog laws; Harvey Sloane

Subjects: Kentucky; Kentuckians; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Politicians; Coal mines; Governors--Kentucky; Breathitt, Edward T., 1924-2003; Coal miners; Appalachia; Campaigns; Collins, Martha Layne; Livestock breeders; Dogs; Sloane, Harvey I.; Louisville (Ky.); Mayors; Lieutenant governors