Oral History Interview with Randy Atcher

[Wade Hall say, Do you think you were handicapped by not being aggressive as a performer. We talked about that last time. You’re very personable; you have a great personality. But some people are so aggressive that they can make a little bit of talent go a long way–or seem to. And you have a lot of talent, and you went a long way, but you think maybe if you had been more aggressive...?]

I think maybe I was handicapped by not being aggressive as a performer. I’ve always been a kind of a laid-back person–just enjoy life and not pressure, you know, and I think that’s probably the way I’ve approached everything in my life. Now, my older brother Bob–as you say–was someone who was aggressive. He did accomplish a lot of things. And I think perhaps had I been more so, I might have done more than I did. I’m perfectly happy with what I did but might have done more or gotten farther in some things–whether I would have liked it once I got there, I’m not sure.

Yeah, there are trade-offs. [Wade Hall says, You decide what you want to do with your life, and if you do it, you’re pretty lucky, aren’t you?] I should say–I should say. I think I HAVE pretty much done what I wanted to do–I really have. I think I mentioned earlier that when my son was growing up, he wanted me to teach him guitar and I told him, You know, that it really wasn’t a good idea ‘cause very few people made it in music. And he went ahead and did it on his own. But that was–a lot of that thought behind what I was saying was that very few people make it doing something they really like to do. And I mentioned earlier my grandfather had said, You know, if you’re doin’ something for other people and enjoyin’ it, you couldn’t find anything better, so... Generally speaking, I’ve been very happy with my life–all of it. And as I mentioned to you, I think, the last 20 years–almost 21 years–has been remarkable. We mentioned earlier that my wife died in 1977, and that I remarried in 1979 and the lady I married has just been the most important thing you can think of to a person’s life. She is just wonderful and I couldn’t say enough to really explain how happy–and that’s not even a good word–content, maybe, is a good word–my life has been since Betty and I have been married. And I think she is almost entirely responsible for it.

Since we’ve married, I’ve had two heart attacks. One in 1980 which was a light heart attack–they didn’t do anything but keep me about five days in the hospital and send me home. Then I had another heart attack in 1990–this time they did the catheterization and found three arteries partly blocked. So they did what they call angioplasty and opened those up. And now here it is almost ten years later and I feel as well as I have for almost forever. But then about six months ago I had a little problem with what they call heart fibrillation –the only way it affected me was having difficulty breathing lying flat–when I lay down in the evening. So they put me on some medication and I have felt great ever since–haven’t had a pain or anything. And still feel good–and uh, I play golf three or four times a week and really enjoy getting out and have plenty of energy and really enjoy it.

No, I don’t feel pressure to do things I really don’t want to do or shouldn’t do. No, I don’t feel those kind of pressures. And you know, with Betty, if there’s something that she wants to do, it’s always worked out–you know, worked out in such a way that it doesn’t put any pressure on, you know. And I just frankly, have really enjoyed these last 20 years. As you know, I’m a golf nut so I play a lot of golf. I read at the American Printing House for the Blind every morning–Monday through Friday–8 o’clock–get home 10:15, 10:30–so I’ve got the rest of the day to do whatever I can–and that’s what I do. Now, about the only pressure that I’ve felt, you know, lately, is: I think we talked about the fact that I did the Crusade for Children here for about the first 20 years of its being and then was away from it because I was doing the Jerry Lewis Telethon on a different station. And then about 1991, they called me and asked me to come back to the Crusade. And the first few years I still had the band and so on, and then about the second or third year I formed a little group–Western singing group called High, Wide and Handsome. Shorty Chesser was Handsome, my son Mark was Wide and I was High because I was taller than either of them. And this just went fine for about three or four years and then my son moved to Florida. And just about that time, the people at the Crusade for Children suggested that I do something that I did in the early years of the Crusade–and they called it a pitch number but it’s some kind of a–well, one of the ones I did is called “Little Children, or The Hope of the World,” and “Thank You, Lord”–and semi-religious and some of them religious sounding–with a recitation in it. And that’s where the pressure began to show up because my memory at [laughs] my age is a, you know, a little difficult to know or feel like I’m gonna remember everything.

Songs that I know pretty well I can stay with but, uh, this recitation–and those are the only times that I’ve sort of felt butterflies and a little bit anxious about what I was gonna do. I haven’t kept a copy of the recitation handy just in case until this year, and Betty put some of it on a little card. Well, that wasn’t my problem this time. This is done with the full band–orchestra–and they have an interim that they play instrumentally while I do the recitation. Well, I got a little bit behind in my work--as they used to say about the butcher who backed into his [laughs] cutting machine, you know [laughs]–and when I got to the end of it, I still had about a line and a half still to be said, and if I had done that, then I would have missed the cue coming back into sing. So instead of that, I just stopped at the first part of that line which was all right because the words at the closing were talking of the firemen. “They love these little children, as you can see,” and at this point, they had ‘em walk out on the stage–each holding a little child. So it worked all right but I was feeling bad because I got a little behind. No, no one knew that except for [him--can’t understand word??]. But those are the only stressful times that I can recall having in recent years at all.

Yes, if you want a peaceful time in your life, it should be when you’re older because when you’re young, you can take it. Often, I guess it’s not but it certainly has been for me and I really appreciate being able to just take life easy and...

[When he speaks of Daphne, there is a hesitancy and a sadness to his voice] As to Daphne, my first wife, I guess the word would be that she did not like the United States. I was hopeful and thought that she might become an American citizen. Within a short time after we got back over here or got here, she would never even consider it. She just said-- you know, you’re supposed to pledge allegiance to the United States flag and sort of give up your own. She would not hear of that. Plus the fact that she did not really care for members of my family. And so all of those things went in and there was–of course, I was doing daily radio and TV programs at that time. During those periods, the pressure that I felt was always from home. But she was a wonderful woman and very talented–she did costuming for plays for some of the community theater here–she wrote some plays that–and you know, a very talented person but I’m not sure that being married was the thing that was best.

I think probably she sometimes regretted that she married me and came to the United States. I would suspect that’s probably true. I suspect that’s probably true–primarily, however, I think in the beginning it was just that she didn’t care for the United States–would like to be back there–because after some years–and this would be in the early ‘70s after I left television as a regular thing–I talked to her a little bit about taking a trip back to Australia. And she said she didn’t want to–that it would be changed so much, and uh, that she just wasn’t really interested [in seeing the changes]. No, she never went back to visit. Well, see, her father came by [over for a visit] and went back died almost immediately. Her sister came through and spent six months with us, went to England, married and was over there. And her mother died quite young–they all died–the three of them died in their 50s. And so she didn’t really have anything close to go back for. And so...

No, we didn’t ever go to Europe together. No, all of our traveling was done within the United States and mostly the West. We got started going out to Rocky Mountain National Park in August for vacation time and we’d go out there and spend three weeks–sometimes four weeks. And we did some tours like I mentioned to you about Antoine’s and the child coming up to speak to me and “T-Bar-V” ‘d been on about two years and came up when I sat down at Antoine’s and you know, said, I see yah every day. And that was just a tour we made of Louisiana, the south coast along Pensacola and around the–and went on down to Key West on that trip, so it was a pretty long trip. So all of our vacationing was done in the United States.

Yes, she enjoyed seeing the West–the West more than any other area although she was of course raised in Australia–on the ocean–near the ocean–so she did kind of like that part with Florida ‘cause in our later years we started going to Sanibel Island in Florida for vacations–uh, a little closer to us than the mountains–didn’t take quite as long as going out West. The one thing she felt about the West was that once you’ve been out there as often as we had and traveled around as much as we did–out there–the different states and different natural things–phenomena and that–that you find in the West–that you’d pretty much seen it and then we started goin’ down to Florida for just leisurely, you know–swim and I’d play some golf and so on.

Yes, we had wanted to have a larger family. Daphne had–I believe it was nine miscarriages–and uh, I believe that’s--she told me that she had had these miscarriages–and uh, I always wondered a little bit because she never would go to the hospital or a doctor about it. But anyway, we finally–I just thought the thing that would maybe make her happy was that we adopted a baby, so we adopted a second son–his name is Christopher. And in his case, when he was real small, everything went quite well. But then as he began to grow up and get into school, their relationship–he and his adopted mother–was not good–they didn’t get along. And [sighs] it was one of those things–I hate to talk about it ‘cept that he–you know, she would tell him he was gonna grow up to be a criminal or somethin’ and he wasn’t worth anything, you know. And that has affected him, I think to this day.

He works for a courier service and lives here in Louisville. No, he does not have a family–he has never married. He was a baby when we adopted him–we got him at the hospital at birth. No, he never knew his birth mother, and about two or three years ago, he talked to me a little bit about that. And his mother–apparently–we adopted him through an attorney and so on–apparently, his mother–this was maybe the third or fourth adopted child from her. His father was supposed to have been a University of Kentucky student–never knew his name or anything like that–we didn’t. The mother probably did but we didn’t–she never did tell anybody. And uh, so I talked to him about the situation and he decided it just wasn’t worth it, you know, him going into it. Let’s see, Christopher was born in 1958, so let’s see, uh, 42–yeah, 42. There were some behavioral problems with him to an extent because–and I always kind of felt like that it was because of the way he was kind of put down, you know, and he did give me some–us–some problems or....

Yes, when you adopt a child, you don’t really know what you’re getting. You really don’t. But in the last several years, though I’m sure what I’ve been telling you affected him, he has certainly become much more adjusted to everything and is just doin’ fine. He has an apartment down in Old Louisville. And we talk on the phone. And once in a while, for an occasion, he’ll be here–comes to see us–but–and he seems to be getting along quite well. Oh yes, I’m on good terms with him.

Yes, I was on better terms with him than Daphne was. And probably part of that was because I was gone quite a bit–the shows and the personal appearances and so on, you know. That’s probably a great deal of it. Yes, my two sons got along together. As a matter of fact, my oldest son was in Vietnam, you know, and there’s 14 years between them, so when Mark came back from Vietnam–from his service in Vietnam, they both were into what we called rock hounding, you know, collecting rocks. So we suggested that they might like–just the two of ‘em–to go out West and collect some rocks and do whatever they wanted to do. So, gave ‘em the car and two of ‘em went out to New Mexico and Arizona and all out through there, and apparently, had a quite a good time. They went to old mining shafts and climbed down inside old minds [laughs] and all kinds of things. And they get along fine now. They just don’t see each other very often. But they get along fine.

Mark comes back to Louisville for special occasions. He was just here for the Crusade this year. He’ll be coming back up for a festival we’re going to be playing for at St. Agnes Church Festival. I guess maybe five or six times a year–pretty steadily, you know. Sometimes, like the one for the Crusade, it’s not long enough to do much. He flew in on Saturday morning and flew back on Sunday morning. He had to go right back ‘cause he does some entertaining before and during intermissions at some community theater down there, and he had a thing he had to do Sunday afternoon at 3:30–for a matinee performance–so he was having to rush back.

Oh, yes, he’s married. Mark married, and my granddaughter–just today–a matter of about three hours ago, gave me my first great grandchild. Yes, uh-huh. And Laurel is my granddaughter’s name–Mark’s and–Christine his first wife and the mother of the granddaughter–and they named the baby, they told me today, Daphne-- Daphne R.–and Rae--I guess it’s R-a-e--I don’t know–it’s a girl. Large little girl–over 8 pounds. But apparently, both doing well and this evening I thought I might drop down and see my great-grandchild [laughs]. But–and this is the first one. So that was Mark’s only daughter but then he and his wife divorced and he remarried a lady who had two daughters, so there’re the two stepdaughters and then my granddaughter Laurel. Mark doesn’t have any children by his second wife. Yes, I know his second wife; she has visited here many times. As I mentioned, he lives in Florida–when we go down to Florida for vacation which we do almost every year in the fall–go to Marco Island–we stop by and spend a day or two with him. They have a nice condominium–live in Indian Rock Beach, Florida–which is just below Clearwater there. And then, on the way back, we usually stop again. And sometimes, his wife comes with him when he comes up here and we get to see ‘em then.

Daphne had reservations about my career–yes, she would have preferred that I would have been a lawyer or something else. As a matter of fact, she told me one time that in her household, when any kind of country music came on, they always turned it off immediately, and also, birthday programs they would not even think about–listening to a birthday program!! Yeah, so...Oh, yeah, they celebrated birthdays but just these programs on the air talkin’ ‘bout birthdays [bothered them]. So here’s everything I’m into, you know [laughs], and she really didn’t care for those. And I’m sure she would have preferred that I were something like an attorney or somethin’. [Wade Hall says, Something a little more stable, and Randy Atcher laughs heartily. Wade Hall says, But actually, you were probably one of the most stable persons in music.] It turned out to be that way–you just felt like it was gonna go on forever ‘cause really it was so stable.

But she was not what you’d call happy in the United States. Generally, yes, I think she was a happy person–was, you know, when we were going together and so on before we married. I don’t know whether I can figure it out or not–what attracted me to Daphne. We got together as a result of a blind date when the person I was supposed to have as my date couldn’t come. And the young woman who was going with my friend–his name was John L. Lewis–and he was with Army Airways Communications Service–his girlfriend talked her [Daphne] into coming. And we hit it off right away. She was into golf–I had not– she, as a matter of fact, was woman champion of the club she belonged to–and I hadn’t really played golf but I’d always liked it and I went out and bought a set of clubs before I’d ever swung at a golf ball. But, uh, and I enjoyed the golf–we played that together quite a bit, and...and we played golf together throughout her life. But the last five years, at least, of her life, she had physical difficulties. And I don’t know why but she never–she would avoid in every way possible–going to see a doctor. She just didn’t like doctors or somethin’–I don’t know. And when she died, it was from what they called arteriosclerosis. She was 54. By this time, she was walking with a walker, you know, having the most difficult time getting around. And her father was only 55 or 56 when he died, and her mother was only 51. So it’s strange, those things.

But believe me, in the back of my mind, I have been concerned about my son Mark, you know. But he is now 55 and seems to be doing well. Yes, arteriosclerosis is like hardening of the arteries–that sort of thing. The last two years of her life she didn’t keep in shape. As a matter of fact, we had quit playing golf together probably 10 years or more prior to her death. But she was a very talented person, and uh, it was just difficult, but as I said, I’ve been so fortunate to find Betty because my life has just taken off.

Yes, Betty plays golf. In the last two or three years, I’ve talked her into it. And she plays in what they call the nine-hole group club. And then, often, on Sunday afternoon, we’ll go play. We just generally play nine holes but she’s not into it thoroughly yet [laughs]. [Wade Hall says, Well, you want to play it well enough so that you can enjoy it and also not embarrass yourself before other people, and Randy Atcher agrees.] Yes, I’ve played at Callaway [sp??] Gardens. We have very good friends who live in Atlanta–there’s a fella named Ed Gossage [sp??] and his wife–and Ed is avid–an avid golfer. So we’ve been down a couple of times and we go to Callaway Gardens, stay there for two or three days–it is beautiful, yeah. There are two holes on the course we played–I think there’re three courses and the one we played is sort of like–there’s one low, one middle and another higher up in the hills–anyway, the one we played–there’s one hole that’s a par three and you’re standing up on a cliff, and you look over the cliff and the hole is–you know, the green is right down below you. So you have to hit the ball out and let it just drop down on the green, you know–that one I remember. Right, it’s like an obstacle course. And then there’s another par three that goes across water from the tee to the green–I mean the water is right at the green, so you have to be sure and hit it enough to get it over the water [laughs]–I remember that quite well. Oh, yes, I have hit in the water–oh, yes. At our club, we have two or three water holes and I’ve been in the water [laughs], yes. Our club is Wildwood.

No, I have not played the Robert Trent Jones circuit in Alabama. I really haven’t had an opportunity to take that much time. It would take two or three weeks, I expect, you know, ‘cause you wouldn’t wanna just go in and play this one today and rush out and play another one tomorrow–you want to take some time–leisurely do it. Apparently, it’s a really good thing to do but I haven’t been able to work it out to take that much time. It’s almost legendary now among golfers–the place to go. Some of the guys I think at that club–at Wildwood–have played it.

Well, the last several Crusades I’ve had the trio I was speaking of–High, Wide and Handsome–trio singing–we sing the Western songs. And Shorty Chesser, who has been an important member of that trio, was not well this year. And he wasn’t able to be with us. So my son Mark flew up from Florida and we did it just as a duet this time. I had early in the program–in the entertainment portion of it which started at 8 o’clock at the Brown Theatre–8 o’clock on Saturday evening. And they had their sort of main guest–a young fella named Brian White–who entertained for a while. And then there’s an interim period while they’re acknowledging moneys that have been sent in and so on, and talking to some of the remote areas. And then I did the song where they call it the pitch number and sang “It Is No Secret” which is an old song–by Stewart Hamblin [sp?? Of both words]–kind of a gospel song. And then the recitation and so on. Finished that.

They asked me this year to do something to praise the firemen who have just MADE the Crusade. So I sat down and wrote out something, and if you want me to, I could go through it. It starts out: “Did you dream of being a fireman when you were growing up? I did. To see a fire truck go running by and then realize later that someone was saved who might have died, did that fire you up–make you want to join and serve? These men and women who volunteer give their time and talent to keep us from harm. Uh, we seem to take for granted the dangers they face when they answer that fire alarm. These volunteer firemen have taken the Crusade for Children to their heart. Without them, it might just fall apart. They love these little children as you can see. So let us thank them with all our heart because they make the Crusade be all it can be.” And I had written that out on that...And they had just–usually the things that I do are more oriented to speaking up the children and their handicaps.

Now what was playing in the background as I recited those lines was the first part of “It Is No Secret.” And then I came back in at the end of the recitation–at the chorus–again–and sang it on out. “It is no secret what God can do. What he’s done for others, He’ll do for you.” And then, about an hour later, Mark and I did a set–we did four songs–we did “Tumbling Tumbleweeds,” and of course, I had to sing the “T-Bar-V” closing song–“Brush Your Teeth Each Morning”–and then we did “Anytime”–and a song called “Heartaches by the Number” and finished with “Skyball Paint” [Randy Atcher said the name of the song is two words, so I presume that is the correct spelling??] which is a Western song about a horse that nobody could ride. “Skyball Paint” was written by Bob Noland [sp??] of the Sons of the Pioneers. Then we did that bit, you know, and finished with “The Hayloft Hoedown” closing song–“The Time Has Come to Say Goodnight, Goodnight, Goodnight. But we’ll be here next year.” [laughs–not “next Friday” which was how the song on the TV show went].

The pitch number was on about 8:40–8:46 [was the scheduled time], and the trio was on about 9:45. Brian White was on a couple of times. He opened it at 8 o’clock and did a bit then. And then we came on and did this. Then he came back later and did one. And if it was 10:30 when you were watching, they had taped that because he left after his second set which was about 9 to 9:30–somethin’ like that. But you know, I’ve always enjoyed doing the Crusade. And this year, to get over $6 million–$6,389,000 something–it’s just amazing. And those firemen are the people who make it happen.

[Wade Hall says, You start watching it–every year I say I’m NOT going to watch it–it’s boring. And it’s not.] You get interested, don’t cha? [Wade Hall says, I don’t know how long they’ve been doing this but they will zoom in on faces of these people who’ve brought money in, and they’re fascinating to see.] They are–the children as well as the adults. [Wade Hall says, Especially when they see themselves on a monitor–they must see it on a monitor–and they try not to break their composure–but you know when they finally see themselves, then they just get so excited about it, and Randy Atcher agrees. And also, you have the drama of the tote board–the amount going up–constantly–and Atcher agrees.] What a difference–I think the first one we did–the original one in 1953 [I think it was 1954], I guess, ‘cause this was the 47th–we only got something in the neighborhood of $33,000. And then it has just grown by leaps and bounds ever since.

[Wade Hall says, Even apart from the money it raises, it brings the community together like nothing else. Is there anything that brings people together more than that?] Not that I can even think of. Well, it really does. And it’s a large community we’re talking about, too–just about all of Kentucky and southern Indiana. And of course, the great thing about the Crusade-it is a program–there is not one like it ANYWHERE. And all of the money–every penny that’s taken in–goes to the people in Kentucky and southern Indiana. What comes from Indiana, goes to Indiana, and what comes from Kentucky, goes to Kentucky.

[Wade Hall says, When you see the people out collecting at the roadblocks and I don’t usually like roadblocks because mostly they’re ripoffs. But the attitude, smiles, waving and effort are always so contagious you just want to give.] Yes, a lot of roadblocks are ripoffs. You have to be over 16 to work at the roadblocks for the Crusade. They use boots to collect the money in. They really do spend a lot of time doing that [collecting]. And that one fire department last night–I don’t know whether you were watching–well, in the wee hours of the morning–one fire department–Highview, which is a suburban subdivision area, brought in $840,000–that is just amazing! Some of the others had, you know, five hundreds and four hundreds but that one! And it was almost twice what they got last year. And you know, the economy’s been good, but I still was uncertain about whether they’d be able to match last year’s and so on. They never set goals, but they always hope that they’ll get more than the previous year. Yes, EVERY year they’ve gotten more than the previous year. And I think I mentioned the pledges is part of it, you know. And they have NEVER failed to collect more than is pledged. It is incredible.

My relationship with Red Foley. Well, Red Foley was doing a program in Missouri at Springfield and Columbia–the television station there had extension studios in Columbia–and so he asked me to come over as a guest on the program–it’s called “The Ozark Jubilee”–it was on ABC network television. So I went over. This would have been about 1957, ‘58–along in that era. So I went over, you know, the first time to be a guest on the program, and Red and I talked quite a bit because I knew all the people he’d known in Chicago when he was up there with the WLS Barn Dance. Yes, he’s from Kentucky–Berea area–Red’s from. And as I remember, I don’t think it was the first time that I appeared. I was down three times as guest on his program. I think it was the second time I was there, and Red had had a problem with drinking–was married to a young woman who was, uh, from the mobs–she had been a girlfriend of Bugsy Siegel [sp??] or one of those people. [Wade Hall says, She was what they used to call a Gun Moll–in the comics, and Atcher agrees.] And Daphne and I were there, and Red and his wife came down, and Red’s wife was wearing some kind of skimpy clothes–low uh, what do you call it? decolletage–or whatever it is–and uh, kind of a short dress, and so on. And Red had a problem with drinking and he’d drunk a little too much, and got angry with his wife because he was intimating she was showing everything she had to me. And he started to get rough with her–and I was able to get him and put him to bed in his room. But except for the fact that he would do some things when he was drinking, he was a real nice guy.

And that was where I first met and heard of Porter Waggoner who was a member of “The Ozark Jubilee” at that time. That was before he came to Nashville. Porter was from Missouri, I think. Anyway, I made three guest appearances on the program. And I remember Red talking about–he was putting on some makeup, you know, and looked at me and he said, [can’t understand word??], you’d better put on some makeup. He said, Naw, you don’t need any makeup. At that time, I was pretty young [laughs], you know [laughs].

Well, let’s see–he had several songs that were big hits–tryin’ to think–of course, “Old Shep” was his first one–and that went way back in his early days, you know. But he was well-known for that. But then as country music began to get more of swing–Western swing style to it–he had several that were out and there’s one of ‘em that Bernie Smith–played guitar for me–wrote the music for–and they put words to it–Hank Laughlin [sp??], Nashville, put words to it. And when Bernie wrote it, he called it “Bernie’s Reel.” But then it had a different name–for some reason or another it won’t come to me. [He hums a bit.] Maybe if I hum it, I can think of the title but I can’t.

But Red had a nice, smooth baritone voice, but I remember particularly “Old Shep” was one of the songs, you know. He was a little bit chunky, yeah. I don’t know the date he died. I know–it was perhaps in the early ‘70s–even the late ‘60s. He was on Renfro Valley. Yes, when John Lair first came down and organized Renfro Valley as an entertainment thing, Red Foley was on with him. He was with–in Chicago–a group called the Cumberland Ridge Runners and uh...

SIDE B

Cumberland Ridge Runners–and John Lair blew the jug–they didn’t have a bass fiddle–he blew the jug for the Cumberland Ridge Runners. So he and Red and Slim came down at the same time.

I was up there at Renfro Valley a couple of times as a guest. [Wade Hall says, For some reason, I just thought–listening to the radio–that it was this romantic spot in the heart of Kentucky. Of course, people who have never been to Kentucky–my generation, you know–think Kentucky is kind of a forest wonderland where Daniel Boone was still lurking, maybe, and you had the aura of the mountains and the mountain people.] Yes, well of course, there’s a lot of that there all right–and especially in those times when Renfro first started out. The only thing there was the auditorium–a kind of a big barn-like auditorium. Then later they put in a little tourist court and now it’s greatly improved from that time. They still have shows–on weekends and uh–they still do the program, which you may of remembered hearing, called “Sunday Morning Gathering.” They still do that program

I remember one fella who was named Fairly Holden who was one of their top stars at Renfro–I don’t think he ever did anything other than Renfro– but I always remember him. He had a hit song called “Keep Them Cold, Icy Fingers Off of Me.” [laughs] The Coon Creek Girls, yeah. And Little Eller and Shorty Hobbs–you know, they were a comedy team–Little Eller was about six feet tall and Shorty was about five feet, four. And they were quite a comedy group

But, gosh, at one time, I believe Renfro Valley was as popular–or possibly more popular–than the Grand Ole Opry. I think had the right people gotten hold of it or somethin’, it could have become the mecca that the Grand Ole Opry became. [Wade Hall says, The thing I remember is that so many of the people in the audience–I think sometimes John Lair would read out names–people who were there{and Randy Atcher agrees}–and especially if they had anniversaries or something like that–We’re glad to have Mr. and Mrs. John Smith from Lansing, Michigan. I remember a lot of people were from the North. And I wondered–and I realized when they came to Kentucky that they were probably going south to Florida and that was on a main drag, wasn’t it?] It was, yes. It’s on what’s I-75 now–it wasn’t then, you know. Yes, it was still kind of a north-south route. Well, you know, John had an idea in mind that this would bring people there–you know, you hear their name called and that they were there. But a lot of people came from like Ohio and places like that and just come down for the show and then go back home–really in the same day if you wanted to–even northern Ohio you could do that [I question that!!] But it was a very, very popular program–and probably, as I said, could have been as big or even bigger than the Grand Ole Opry if someone had promoted it in that fashion.

As far as regrets in my life and career, well, I guess probably the only thing I can think of that I might say I regretted was the fact that the attack of Pearl Harbor came right when it did because I think I told you that Herman Bernie–we took pictures to send to Hollywood and they thought I might be able to be another Gene Autry or something. And uh, so they were to be [Wade Hall says, You were better looking than Gene Autry {Atcher laughs}–that’s for sure, and Randy Atcher says, Thank you, laughing]–anyway, we were in Akron, Ohio–and when we were in Pittsburgh this [the Hollywood publicity talk] had all started, you know–so when the war came along, we were in Akron. And I had already been deferred once on the draft thing because I had these commitments in entertainment–they gave me a three-month deferment. And when they attacked Pearl Harbor, I said, I’m gonna stop right now and go home and enlist on my own.

So perhaps had I not–that not come along and I had done that, I might possibly have gone to Hollywood and been the Roy Rogers of the time or something. But it didn’t work out that way. [Wade Hall says, Because Westerns were still extremely popular, weren’t they? And Atcher agrees. And singing Westerns were, and Atcher agrees.] Gene Autry was one of the biggest stars at that point–and he’d only been there about four or five years. And then Roy Rogers came along a little later, and he was going strong.

There were quite a few singing cowboys. Tex Ritter did some. One time when I was down at Nashville for the celebration they have where all disc jockeys and e’r’body like that is there for the awarding of the–the awards that they gave at that time–and we were staying at the hotel there and a knock came on the door and I opened the door and it was Tex Ritter. He wanted me to go and have a drink with him–he did, uh-huh. But there was Ritter. Of course, there was–some of the others who did some singing but they weren’t–Rex Allen was a good singer and he did some of them. Some of them that weren’t so good but they did some singing–Ken Maynard was one of the old-time Western stars and he was from Columbus, Indiana. And I stopped by his home two or three times to see his parents–and a couple of times when he was there.

One funny experience I remember I’ll tell you about–my brother Bob was in Chicago–and after I got back the war and I started doing things in Georgia and then back to WHAS–and he was doing a Hopalong Cassidy television thing where they just played a Hopalong Cassidy film and he did little bits in between. So he had a thing made up which was a horse’s head with neck, and he could put it on over his shoulders and it had a little strings hanging down that he could put one on each side of his mouth and cause its mouth to open or its eyes to blink or somethin’ like that. And because it was with children and so on so much, it said, No, no, [and] he named the horse’s head No No. So he brought it down here for me to use at some entertainment I was gonna do and we decided we had to take it back up to him. By this time he’d quit doing that program. So I put it in the trunk of the car and we were goin’ up I-65 and stopped at Columbus, Indiana to have a bite to eat. And when we came out, my wife said, Better check on the horse. And I said, Well, I guess so. And I opened the trunk, looked in and said, OK. There was a couple sittin’ in the car right beside us and they had the strangest look [laughs] on their faces, you know [laughs]. [Wade Halls says, If they heard her say, Look, you better check on the horse, they thought, Well, she must know what’s going on, too].

Other than that, I don’t think I really have any regrets. I was just so fortunate to go to WHAS Television. I was doing other things in the entertainment line here–just radio–and those kinds of things. Not making much money–at one time took sort of a second job selling appliances at an appliance store–this was 1949–at that time I was not on staff at WHAS. See, we had done our year’s program for the Vick’s Salve people on WHAS Radio, and then I mentioned they decided it would be early morning or noon, or noon or evening–we chose noon or evening, so we were the first to be let go. So at the end of that contract, I was let go and that’s when I went into a single at WGRC singing by myself, and then to WKLO doing disc jockey work and also live programming too. During that period, wadn’t making much money, so I took this job as a salesman at a–‘cause television was brand new–just beginnin’ to catch on–so I was gonna sell television sets–and I had grand ideas about particularly tourist places, you know–selling a bunch of ‘em at one shot. But I only did that for about three weeks and realized it wasn’t for me, you know, yeah. So I got out of that. The place where I sold televisions is no longer there as far as I know–it was in St. Matthews–there used to be a place–Chism’s Hardware–now I think it’s a restaurant. Right across the alleyway from it on the corner there, there was this appliance store. No, it wasn’t one particular brand–it was a general run. Well, the most popular one I remember–that was a Philips–Philips–they were coming out with, it seemed like with more new things and so on to do with them. ‘Course the one we had at home was an Emerson, I believe it was. So those names are no longer [laughs] around in television.

But really, I feel like I’ve been extremely lucky with my life regarding doing what I enjoy doing and for as long as I have been able to. You can’t ask for more than that.

I’ve not had any serious mishaps–accidents, illnesses. Other than–I think I told you–about my heart attack. And accidents–I told you, I think, about the one when we were on this trip and the driver of the car, Happy Morris, fell asleep and the car rolled off, turned over and we had to get up and put it back on its feet. And for all the many miles we traveled making personal appearances, which is the only way you could make any money–the stations didn’t pay you anything–uh, that’s the only accident. Of course, the roads weren’t the best–two-lane roads with that ridge in the middle, you know, and I can remember my brother Bob and I coming back from London, Kentucky or someplace and him hangin’ out one side and me out the other tryin’ to see the edge of the road and white line, you know, ‘cause it was so foggy in those mountains. In many cases, there was little or no shoulder and you’d just drop right off if you went off the road. And it’s just amazing that [we] didn’t have any accidents.

I’ll keep thinking of things–you know, if somethin’ comes to mind. [Wade Hall says, And jot down any people or events that you think we haven’t covered, and we can always do a clean-up session sometime later on.]

I don’t know whether we talked about Muscular Dystrophy or not but it’s in that thing I gave you–uh, I was chairman of the Muscular Dystrophy drive in 1952 till about 1970. And I think I mentioned to you, or did I, about my father’s first fiddle–he traded a one-room log cabin and two acres of ground for. [Wade Hall says, Yes, you did talk about that but I don’t remember taking it down from the tape–maybe you were talking about it when the tape recorder was not on.]

School attendance–I told you about not having to go to school and studying in the car...Ernest Tubb and the Opry–we were down there as his guests [I don’t remember him providing any details about the Opry appearances and who was “we”]. Roy Rogers was through here–I’ve got a picture that we might want to put it–it’s of Cac and me and Roy Rogers–when he came through here–and one of the members of his group was ill so he asked me to do the shows they were doin’ here [can’t understand a word or two??]. Told you about Elvis’ manager callin’ and wanting to be on that [Hayloft Hoedown], and Bob [I think he’s called Don somewhere else] Gibson, too, who wrote quite a few songs and was a Nashville star for quite a few years called me and wanted to be on–told him we couldn’t use him–and this was, you know, like two month before he went to Nashville and became a [star?? can’t understand word].

If you had your own show, you really were looked up to by people who were-especially when they were starting out in the business and wanted to be on. And of course, Don [Gibson] lived over in Indiana and could see WHAS Television, so he saw our show all the time. And Louisville was a big market [Wade Hall says, Louisville was a huge market.]

Did I talk to you about Janie Workman and Ramona Riggins–Grandpa Jones’ wife Ramona? [He didn’t.] Well, in the early days, in late 1937 and ‘38 when I was with Sunshine Sue’s–we called ‘em the Rock Creek Rangers–we did a show over in Indiana–Washington County–where Janie Workman was from. And she and Ramona Riggins came to the program and we found out that Ramona played fiddle and Janie sang and she joined the group later and married one of the Workman boys. But at that time, it was just Ramona Riggins who played fiddle and then she married Grandpa Jones.

Honey Evans–we talked about that. Santo Domingo and–we got that.

If I think of some other things, I’ll write it down. I usually think of things when I’m ridin’ along in the car and didn’t have anything to write it down with or was not in a position to, and those are times when there were some things I would have liked to have...If you’re writing songs, you’ll think of a line or a lyric, and if you don’t write it down, it may be lost forever.

Wade, you’ve no idea how much I appreciate your listening to all this. I hope that you find enough material that you can....