Oral History Interview with Randy Atcher

...and they went down to Nashville and they were hoping that they might hook up with someone there or get quite a bit of work just singing together, and they did some of that but it didn’t come to be much of a pay-off. And the older one, who’s Chris, is just an expert at rehabilitating a house–she can do so many things but that’s one of the things she’s really good at and she started buying old properties and puttin’ ‘em back in shape and selling them, so she’s done very well. Cecily is just in the process of buying a farm–and she’s into the outdoors and animals and so on, so they’re still both in the Nashville area–not right in Nashville. And periodically come up to see their mother and we get to see ‘em, you know.

[Wade Hall says, The difference between making it in the business and not making it–is it luck, timing-- talent, of course--but a lot of talented people don’t make it?] That true, that’s true, and I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s pretty much TIMIMG–being in the right place at the right time. Of course, you do have to have some talent, too. But many talented people–you know, really good–never get that break that would have put them in [orbit].

As far as anybody I ever played with who was really talented but just couldn’t make it and had to choose an alternative career, I’m just trying to think. Now, the young fella we mentioned earlier–Bobby Lewis–who was on the program–went to Nashville and Ernest Tubb took a liking to him and he played quite a few shows with Ernest Tubb’s band but his ambition, of course, was always to be on the Opry and so on, and he was quite good but never did make that. And that probably had something to do with who was in charge at that time and whether they liked that or not. Other than that, probably not. Tiny Thomale was the best ragtime piano player in the country, as far as I’m concerned–I had not ever heard any better–and worked with some of the bands back in the old days-in the ‘40s and before the ‘40s–in the ‘30s–but never got that break that would have put him up there in the top echelon, you know. But, uh, not [or now??] Bernie Smith–Bernie did quite a bit of work–he was at WLS on the National Barn Dance with the Prairie Ramblers for a while and then–he played the guitar. No, he didn’t sing–just now and then he would sing as a part of a group song. And then he was here at WHAS with me for, well, we mentioned earlier about 15 years and then he went to California and got caught in the earthquake and decided he’d come back here [laughs] to Kentucky. And he was one of the finest guitarists that I’ve ever heard.But part of it’s the era in which you’re born and which you work. The times of his work, which would be the ‘40s, the ‘50s, ‘60s–during most of that time, they didn’t think instrumentals would sell. So you could be the best guitar player in the world and not be able to get a recording contract or anything because they’d just say, Instrumentals don’t sell. Now that’s changed some but unless it’s piano or something like that, it’s still–don’t do much of it.

Yes, contacts do count a lot. People you know can make a lot of difference and in these places like the Grand Ole Opry, who you make friends with can mean a lot. Unfortunately, I guess it’s true–they tell me it’s true in Hollywood, too, and everywhere–you come in town and you meet somebody knew and one of the first things they say is: What are you here for? They want to know if you’re gonna be their competition and if you are, and they find it out early, they’re gonna try their best to kind of stop you–run you out. And that still goes on, apparently, everywhere.

I guess that’s one of the reasons I stayed in Louisville and at WHAS. I’d had offers–or opportunities–to go to Nashville and perhaps would of–could of become a member of the Grand Ole Opry but I knew so many stories of the sort we were just talking about, and I had a family here and the job I had was secure and I liked all the people at WHAS and I just didn’t want to leave.

Bob and I did play on the Grand Ole Opry but only as guests. No, Bob didn’t want to become a regular at the Opry. He preferred the WLS Barn Dance in Chicago, and it was a different kind of a program–a little more Western music oriented. And it always kind of surprised me that it didn’t become the mecca that Nashville did–for the country music people. Probably the location had something to do with it–the northern location of Chicago. Most of the country music faithful were Southeast, you know. And Midwest too. But I think the location in Nashville was the thing and as far as I know, Bob never had any yearning at all to be at the Grand Ole Opry. No, that was not one of his regrets.

[Wade Hall says, Nashville had the National Life and Accident Insurance Co. which supported their country tradition–was the sponsor--but was there any big sponsor in Chicago?]

Well, you know what WLS stands for? World’s Largest Store. That was Sears, Roebuck. The station was owned by Sears, Roebuck–in early days anyway–it was sold, I guess, several times. But that’s what WLS stood for–the World’s Largest Store. Sears, Roebuck were sponsors on the show in the very early times–they were. But when Bob went there, by that time it had been sold to other people–they still called it WLS but it wasn’t Sears anymore.

I feel sure the climate–farmers and country people could haven gotten there just about any time of the year as opposed to the cold and snow of Chicago--and the location both had something to do with Nashville becoming the country music capital. They’re people who’ve said that Louisville could have become the same as Nashville if there had been people here who’d wanted to back it and get it going. I talked with WHAS when the old Grand Theater which was down on Chestnut Street became no longer a movie theater–I talked to them about putting a country music show in there and starting a thing like the Opry but they never did sort of decided they wanted to do that.

On “The Hayloft Hoedown,” most of the time we had audiences–but not always–it was primarily Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and people like that–who couldn’t be here–you know, weren’t havin’ birthdays so they weren’t on “T-Bar-V” so they wanted to come in and be there [in the studio audience], and sometime during the show they would pan over that way and they’d [the television audience] would see ‘em, you know.

The National Barn Dance on WLS had a live audience. Yes, it was done on what they called the Eighth Street Theater there, and yeah, they had live audiences all the time.

I think having live audiences is very important for my kind of music–I think it helps it a great deal–and they’re a lot of programs that you do [without audiences]. Of course, we did radio programs without audiences and so on, you know, but even “The Old Kentucky Barn Dance” which was on radio on Saturday nights–they had it in a big enough studio at the station to have people come in. [Wade Hall says, So you all were interacting before we had the term–interaction on computers and so on--and Randy Atcher agrees.]

[Wade Halls points out that it was a live audience at the Opry in front of performers like Minnie Pearl and Roy Acuff that made them come to life for those farm families and such all over the South and Midwest who listened to the program in their lonely houses out in the country–you could tell when you listened it was the audience that gave it an excitement–because those audience members were there for you–you who was sitting at some kitchen table in a farmhouse listening–and you could imagine being right there.] I think it certainly is true. And I think that many country music performers–perhaps many performances of any types–do things so much better when they are in front of an audience. Their personalities come through. If you don’t have that audience, it’s all sort of make believe in a way, you know. You have a picture in your mind that they’re people there who are listening but you don’t know for sure, you know [so it helps to have a live audience before you.]

When you record or make records, you usually don’t have an audience because you’re in a sound chamber. And when you’re making records, all your thoughts are about making this sound as good as you can. Sound is the important thing–and all the part be right, you know. And I think I mentioned earlier that when Bob and his first wife and I played together in Chicago and we made records for Columbia, and we made the first commercial record of “Cool Water” before the Sons of the Pioneers–I think we might have talked about that earlier–but you might do a song 10 times before you got it EXACTLY like you wanted it. Nowadays, we’ve done a couple of tape things with the group that I’ve had latest called High, Wide and Handsome–the Western trio. And you feel like you’ve accomplished something if you do it in one take–and if that’s satisfactory to you. But in those days of recording, you’d go over it until every note is just right, you know [smiles].

[Wade Hall says, but I think there is a dynamic that’s established when you have a live audience–absolutely, absolutely, Atcher says–even if you’re recording, Hall says. And I think that’s why some records are live recorded–live performances, and Atcher agrees.] I think so, too, and I think that’s probably when that performer shows at their best. But when you have a live audience, you don’t get a second chance–that’s it. I guess without the audience you really don’t know what’s happening until the ratings come in or something, you know [laughs]. But if you’re in front of that live audience, that’s when you have to do your best work. And of course, once you can get the audience on your side, it’s just easy from then on and you’ll feel happy about it

because you’re part of them and the whole thing just unfolds right there and it’s fun.

Some of my community activities–The Crusade for Children–we were at WHAS when it started–don’t know whether we talked about this before or not–but the first year they had what they called the Cerebral Palsy Telethon. This was put on by some fund raisers. And on that first show, by the way, Garry Moore–and who’s the girl who’s been in Hollywood for years that sang with Garry Moore [Carol Burnett]–anyway, Durwood Kirby was the announcer. A girl named Lohr [there was a Marian Lore who was a comedienne who was on his show for a long time??]. Anyway, the one I was thinkin’ about was not here–Carol Burnett–she was on his show but she wasn’t here. Anyway, they were on that first Cerebral Palsy Telethon and when the program was over, Mr. Bingham found out that the professional fund raisers took 30 percent off the top of everything you got. That upset him and that’s when he decided we were gonna do our OWN program and were gonna call it The Crusade for Children. So, that was in 1954–the first one, you know–and that was called The Crusade Children and it was broadened to make it for all kinds of different things. But we still had national stars to come in and perform.

In the beginning, they thought, Well, if we need to have these people who are well-known–famous, so to speak–to get people attracted to watch the program. And it started in the Memorial Auditorium–that’s where we were doing it. And we had Hollywood people–I think I mentioned earlier Pat O’Brien was one of ‘em–and prominent people in music and in just acting, and so on.

Some of the actors would be interviewed. Some of them could sing–‘course we had Steve [Lawrence] and Edie Gorme–and her husband–what was Steve’s name?–he was a singer–anyway, we can find that out. Anyway, they were here. Hal LeRoy [check sp??] was here--Leo Carillo [check sp??]–I’m gonna get you a list of just about everybody that was on because we had a fella named Earl Wrightson who was here doing a play–a show out at the amphitheater–and they had him be on. Homer and Jethro–a lot of country music stars--Ray Price. Just quite a few of them were here. And they’d have, you know, one or two and sometimes three big names each year. And though that was costing the money for the Crusade, at first Mr. Bingham absorbed, you know, the station absorbed quite a little bit of it. They had to have their expenses paid and it was a small amount they got paid. And this went on for, I guess, about the first, oh, 15 years of the Crusade that they were having these [big names appear].

The fire companies were not involved in the very beginning. Within a matter of a few years, they did get involved and that’s what has saved the Crusade for Children. I wish I knew–I wish I could tell you–how the fire companies happened to get involved in the first place. You know I just heard things where they–some of the fire people came down to the station to talk to them about it and they decided this was a good idea. [Wade Hall says, There is no organization that covers the entire area as well as the fire companies–you’ve got fire protection everywhere.] And of course, it’s all volunteer firemen–the city firemen are not involved in it at all–and they’re still not–have never been. But these volunteer firemen–I think it may have been Pleasure Ridge Park who were the first people to come in to talk to the station about this. It’s possible it was their–the firemen’s–idea; I don’t know that for sure but if I get an opportunity to talk to Bud Harbsmeier who’s been the manager of the Crusade for several years, I’ll find out from him.

As far as I know, there’s never been a history written of the Crusade. Jim Walton was the first MC. He was not the manager–he was just strictly the MC. It was managed pretty much by just the station administration, you know. Vic Sholis was the general manager of the station–he was manager when I started and for 20 some years of it–20 years of it–and something like that. But Jim was the MC in the beginning and actually, he and I pretty much shared that ‘cause we were both there for the entire time of the Crusade. I was there the first year–I was there from 1954 until 1970, and in 1970 when I left–well, ‘71 actually, when I left WHAS–I did a three-month contract of “The Hayloft Hoedown” on Channel 32. And in those days, you didn’t work on one station and appear on another, so I started doing the Jerry Lewis Telethon on [Channel] 32 that same year and did it for four or five years at Channel 32, and then it went to WAVE–I did it a couple of years at WAVE. And then they called me from WHAS wanting me to come back to the Crusade and so I did, and I guess that was about 1991 when I first went back, so there was a period in there of quite a few years that I wasn’t there for the Crusade.

The purpose of having a TV show–an entertainment TV show–for the Crusade was again, it’s that principle of wanting people to tune in to find out what the Crusade was about. And back in those days–in the early days–the first four hours of the Crusade was full of this entertainment, interspersed with interviews with the mother of a child who had some sort of disease or problem and other things which they–title came in–they called it a pitch number where you sing a song and have a reading or recitation or something to try to, you know, draw the heartstrings of people–and get them to think about what this was about. And then they would call in–they had a bank of telephones goin’ all the time–and asked people of pledge.

And the one interesting thing about the Crusade is that they never, ever failed to get more money than was pledged. It is unbelievable. You just think that some people would call and not plan on doin’ it. [Wade Hall says, Or for whatever reason–I mean sometimes legitimate reasons, and Atcher agrees. Wade Hall says, I’ve heard that before and I’ve thought, That can’t be.] It is amazing–it’s been an amazing program and it’s raised an awful lot of money for the purposes it is–well, I’m sure you know there’s a panel of ministers who pass out the money to the different [organizations]. They used to call it The Moral Side of the News–and they’re the ones who, you know, got the applications for the money from all these various charity things and award this much here and this much there. And in those early days–I mentioned about Mr. Bingham being upset about 30 percent off the top–in those days, the cost was in the range of 4 or 5 percent. And of course, now it’s gaining so much money that’s put immediately into the bank and it earns enough interest that NOTHING comes out of what the people send in–it just comes out of interest–whatever costs there are involved.

And it has been a phenomenal program. In the latter years–in the last few years–they have not drawn quite as heavily into that. They still have entertainment for a couple of hours early Saturday evening, and that’s supposed to be the same principle but they’ll have one person who people may know as their guest for this Crusade. And like for instance, this year it’s good thing Brian White–who’s a newcomer to country music–but quite popular, particularly with the younger people. And last year they had the trio that’s called Riders in the Sky–and they’re excellent–yes, they’re from Cincinnati–a comedy kind of Western trio but with very expert at music and what they do. And so, someone like that but they don’t feel–the firemen have done just so much for the Crusade that they don’t feel like they have to have that anymore to get people involved–the firemen do it. There’s drama when they come in with their money. And of course, you know, it takes hours–now they have volunteer fire departments from all over the state and southern Indiana. And some of ‘em–they now have remotes where they’ll go out and talk to them in their local area and collect their money there. But many, many of ‘em come all the way into Louisville and deliver the money they have gotten. It’s just amazing–it had been a phenomenal program and still is–this will be the 47th year.

I’m not sure whether southern Indiana was included the first year but I think they were. I think it covered pretty much the WHAS and media viewing area–just the counties right here close. It didn’t get out into the state–this was a gradual thing–periodically, they’d add one here and another one here–Shelbyville, Shelby County and so on–it just kept adding till now and it covers many of the counties in the state–not the far western part nor the far eastern part.

[Wade Hall says, I understand now they try to return the money–or a percentage of it–to where it was collected.] Yes, but when you say that we’re talkin’ ‘bout the fact that all the money that’s collected in Kentucky is used in Kentucky. And the money that’s collected in Indiana is used in Indiana. Probably little counties down in the state who might collect a couple of thousand dollars might get $25,000 or $30,000 for whatever the purposes are they need it for. No, there’s no attempt to return the money exactly to the county or to the fire district or anything like that–not exactly–it’s for whoever needs it there is gonna get it, you know.

Yes, the Crusade has become such an important part of Louisville’s civic life that people leave money for the Crusade in their wills–yes, it’s increasing. Of course, after the firemen got involved, the churches became involved. And there are collections at Protestant and Catholic churches, and the Catholic churches usually bring in a huge amount of money–as do many of the Protestant churches also. So there are several elements that make the Crusade a success–whether we had a program or not, you know, you feel like they can go ahead and collect [the money]. [Wade Hall says, You’ve got drama there–because first of all, you want to beat the year before. And also, you’ve got competition among the fire companies–the fire departments.] Particularly that ‘cause the larger fire departments–it’s just a battle every year to see who can collect the most money. And they can come in with some amazing totals that they get at their roadblocks, as they call ‘em, where they’re at an intersection, you know, and they can collect money from motorists going by, plus going house to house in their territory and ...

[Wade Hall says, It probably touches more people in terms of donations as well as services that are rendered from the donations–more people than any one thing, don’t you think?] Oh, I’m sure it does. [Wade Hall says, I can’t imagine any other volunteer activity that takes as many contributions.] As far as I know, there is none, you know, that comes anywhere near doing what they’re doing.

Yes, the support of the Bingham family was crucial in this endeavor. There would not have been a Crusade for Children had it not been for the Bingham family, the papers and the station. They started it in 1954 and from then on, until they sold their interests and so on, it was just an absolute part of the community. And since the sales of the stations, probably not as much backing because they just don’t know what the Crusade is–the owners nowadays–because they’re from out of state and they don’t really know what they are committed to staying with it. And I’m really thankful, and so I’m sure is the entire area, that they have decided to go and continue with the program.

The Binghams donated the air time. And as far as I know, so do the stations now because they realize how important it is to the area. But I probably would have to talk to Mr. Harbsmeier who’s managed it for so long to know for sure but I feel sure. Yes, he’s a full-time, year-round employee of the Crusade. And yes, they start on next year’s collections and so on right immediately after the Crusade [can’t understand a couple of word??]–and fund raisers, yes. There are all kinds of things that do go on–picnics and all kinds of things that where the people use the proceeds to give to the Crusade.

[Wade Hall says, I know there are many reason why Louisville has become such a very important medical center nationally, but it seems to me that one of the reasons, certainly, has to be the Crusade because it’s given so much money to the hospitals for mainly children’s services.] I suspect that that’s so–that that’s true. Once again, it’s an amazing program. As you know, it’s comin’ up here pretty soon and I’m lookin’ forward to it again this year. Yes, I’ll be on the Crusade and have been for the last seven or eight years–again. Yes, I perform on the show and because I used to do them when I was on the Crusade all the time, I will be doing one of those things they call a pitch number–it’s a song–usually they’re in the gospel vein, you know–and this year the song is “It is No Secret”–a Stewart Hamblin [spellings??] song. And then they asked me to write something to honor the fire departments because most of the time you have sort of a bleeding heart sort of story that get people’s attention–make them want to give for this blind child or this deaf child or this child with cerebral palsy or whatever. So they asked me for that, so this year the recitation part of the presentation will be a tribute to the fire departments, which I sat down and wrote so I could do that.

That song is always done with the full orchestra and while they’re playing the verse part of the song, I’ll do the recitation and then pick up the music again at the chorus and I’ll be singing that. I’ll do that just by myself. It’ll be a solo. Then later, my son’s gonna come up from Florida and we’re going to do a few minutes on the program that would normally have been Shorty Chesser and my son and me–our trio that we called High, Wide and Handsome–but Shorty’s health is not very good at the moment so it looks like he’s gonna have to miss the Crusade, but Mark’s gonna come up from Florida and we’re going to do some things together.

Mark works for the government at the reserve center–he worked here at the reserve center at Bowman Field–and of course, he was in the reserves, too, and is a lieutenant colonel in the reserves. After 20 years, he had to retire as a lieutenant colonel. Unfortunately, he can’t collect any pension till he’s 60 but [laughs] anyway he’d have to retire [laughs]. But it’s a civilian job for the reserve center. Yes, he does perform in Florida–I don’t think you could keep him from doing that. When he first went down there, I talked to him and he said, Well, you know, there wadn’t much to do because most every place the musicians worked for nothing, you know, and they didn’t get any pay for it. So he did a few things and then he kind of got into community theater where he was acting, and now and then a kind of musical thing he’d sing [in]. But he’s a computer bug so he started writing backgrounds on the computer that sounded like the Glen Miller Orchestra or like the Benny Goodman Quartet or something, you know, all these backgrounds. And then he takes his guitar and then preceding these community theater things and in the intermission he sings with his computerized backgrounds and his guitar. And he’s been doing really well at that and [practices??-can’t understand word]. He’s–let’s see–Mark was born in 1945–in January 2000 he was 55. So once it gets in your blood, it’s hard to get it out. Yes, and I would hope that he wouldn’t, although I remember when I was at WHAS, he was about 11 or 12 and wanted a guitar–asked me if I’d teach ‘im playin’ the guitar–and I said, Well, I’d be glad to help him a little but not to even think about it as anything to make a living at it. Said I was one of the lucky ones–one of the fortunate ones–and not very many people got that sort of thing. Well, he ignored me completely and did most of it on his own.

But he was–later teen years–he was at the time of the folk music, you know, and so when he went down to Western Kentucky University, he formed a folk music group. You know, he paid his own way through school–he’d gotten a scholarship [partly–sounds like]. No, I don’t remember what that group was called. It was a large group–made up of students entirely. He majored in languages and when he graduated–got his degree–and then got his Master’s degree. And was working on his Doctorate and discovered that Doctorates weren’t being hired as much as people with just a Master’s degree so he decided to quit. And he taught for one year–Spanish–out in Oldham County–and he just decided teaching wasn’t for him [laughs], you know. But he really liked languages. And I’ve heard it said that musicians in particular are good at languages. When he graduated from high school, he had three credits in ancient Greek, four in Spanish, four in Latin and three in French. Just in high school! He just liked languages but Spanish was his love, you know. And we had albums of the Mexican-Spanish trios that we just used to love to listen to–and do a little song. He spoke Spanish fluently then, and living in Florida now, he should at least be able to get around on it, you know. But he doesn’t use it much. No, he hasn’t spend any time in Spanish-speaking countries–not that I know of–hasn’t been to Spain. He’s been to Mexico but as far as I know, he’s never been across either ocean, you know [in connection with his interest in the Spanish language but he did go to Vietnam in the service.]

Well, we’ve been doing it [as a trio] for last several years now. For your information, the song I mentioned–they call it a pitch thing–is scheduled for 8:46, and the trio–Mark and I–are supposed to be on about 9:45. So we’re in that first two-hour period. It’s all scheduled so you know exactly when you’ll be performing. And almost invariably, it gets behind schedule, you know, somebody takes longer than they’re supposed to and sometimes–see, that’s done before a live audience–and this year at the Brown Theater where it used to be always at the Center for the Arts. Of course, you have a live audience and that again kind of perks you up.

People in the audience can just come and go during the program but during the time–that first couple of hours–you see very few GOING, you know, they come [to stay]. It’s never overcrowded but usually a pretty good crowd of people are there for it. And after the performances are pretty much over, then people don’t have as much reason for staying there to see the money come in.

And of course, one of the things we didn’t discuss–after the entertainment portion of the program is over and you get into the wee morning hours it’s on and what they’re doing is showing where this money is gone, who has this benefitted and with people that everybody in their area would know and see that the money is being used for these purposes in their vicinity and that area. They show video clips. And that goes on until about midday on Sunday, and then when the fire departments start the second wave of coming in and bringing their money and going on the program. The program goes on for, well, this year they’re starting at 1 o’clock on Saturday afternoon and they will not go off the air until the wee hours of Monday morning. So it’s a long, long time. But they just feel like these fire departments do so much that they MUST give them an opportunity to be on and to talk about their work. [Wade Hall says, That brings the community together. I mean apart from the money-raising, it brings the community together like nothing else, and Randy Atcher agrees.]

The idea for a tote board–they had a tote board the first year. It wasn’t quite as glamorous as it’s been in past years but oh yes, they had a tote board the first year. And of course, at that time, I wore a pair of six guns, you know, on “T-Bar-V” you could–that was before everybody got upset about guns [laughs]–and when we were at Memorial Auditorium when the program started, I’d fire a blank in one of those 45s and I’ll swear it sounded like a cannon goin’ off–and that would start the march down to the stage with “[When] The Saints Go Marching In”–ever’body singing and it being played. And we did that for just about every year it was at Memorial Auditorium, and then, oh, I guess it was about 1960–along in there–that started objecting to that. ‘Course, up to that time, the little kids that came to “T-Bar-V” were dressed in their cowboy outfits–girls and boys–with a pair of cap guns, you know. And we had to see who’s fastest on the draw [laughs]. [Wade Hall says, It’s not politically correct now to see who’s fastest on the draw, and Randy Atcher agrees, laughing.] I’ll be out now, you now, and somebody on the golf course maybe will yell and say, One, two, three–draw!! [laughs] At some restaurant or somethin’, there’s always somebody doin’ it [laughs]–who’s thinking about that.

I think we’ve covered a lot of the Crusade but I want to give you a list of many of the people who were on it. And many of them were guests on “The Hayloft Hoedown.” I always felt like “The Hayloft Hoedown” program was a program I could showcase anything. It didn’t have to be country music especially, although it was a country oriented program. And for instance, Frankie Carle [sp??}, who was a pianist, you know–had his own band and everything–and he was here and we showcased him and I’m sure it didn’t take from “The Hayloft Hoedown” idea of the program. And of course, we did have a lot of country music stars too, but all of those people–any of them–seemed like we could fit it in, for just that couple of minutes was boxed in, just special.

[Wade Hall says, By then, country and Western really wasn’t what it was in the ‘20s and ‘30s, and Randy Atcher agrees.] I guess upgraded would be a word to use, you know, uh, yeah-- ‘course in those early days, it was mostly fiddle music and square dance kind of music, and then the songs you sang–I think I mentioned him earlier–but Bradley Kincaid was one of the first of the mountain singers I ever heard or knew. And he was really very good at what he did. And he came to Louisville one time–and I’ll never forget it and he was at the Memorial Auditorium–and they had put up scenery so it looked like a path comin’ down the mountain and you didn’t see him–he [was] behind the hills–and his theme song was “In the Hills of Old Kentucky.” And he started singing that back there and you couldn’t see him or anything, comin’ down the mountain–and it really impressed me [no doubt about it--can’t understand a couple of words??]–I was about 14, I think, [laughs] at the time.

Yes, I knew Bradley Kincaid and of course, at home we got the Sears & Roebuck catalogue. And then here was the Bradley Kincaid Hound Dog Guitar, you know [laughs]–first one I ever had was a Bradley Kincaid Hound Dog Guitar. Yesss. They weren’t very good [laughs] guitars but it served the purpose. Right, cheap, too. And served the purpose, you know.

Yes, he was more of a mountain singer but that’s what we did in those days–those mountain songs–they were the things that were popular–they call ‘em folk songs today but uh, those were the songs that were popular with the audiences. No, we weren’t twangy–I guess we didn’t come from that area where you usually had that twang. Well, you know, all of my family had high school educations–and some of us some college–and so on–and Mother nor Dad spoke in that twangy way, so I think we just sort of picked it up and–pretty much Midwestern, I guess, is the way we talked [meaning standard accents].

When I was performing alone or with Bob, we never had a female comedian performing with us. As a matter of fact, after “The Hayloft Hoedown” started and so on, the only comedy we had was “Cactus” Tom Brooks. I never had a female comedian or comedienne–even in the bands I played in in the ‘30s. Yes, now and then, there was a female comedian with country groups. Minnie Pearl–one of the reasons she was so popular was because she was one of the only ones. Now, up at Renfro Valley they had Sister Eller, I believe it was–or Little Eller–that’s right–and she was about six feet tall and worked with Shorty Hobbs who was about five feet, four inches tall. And they had a couple of female comedians there.

Right, there weren’t as many women in country and Western. It wasn’t until quite late in country music that girl singers started selling records at all–that they would record ‘em even. And you know, some of those first ones–Kitty Wells and some of those first ones–like Patsy Montana, I guess, was the first–as far as I know–the first girl singer who really sold pretty good on records, and she was at WLS Barn Dance–National Barn Dance. And there was a group called The Prairie Ramblers that Bernie Smith was with and Patsy Montana sang with them, you know.

[Wade Hall says, Sometimes you’d have a husband and wife but they were....]

SIDE B

...song–with yodels, you know. And of course, Patsy Cline was later. And Loretta Lynn was before Patsy Cline, originally. Yeah, yeah. That is she was singing at WLS–before Patsy Cline. But once people started listening to the girls, they have become, as you know, extremely popular.

[Wade Hall says, When I was a boy growing up, I don’t remember any girl singers on the Grand Ole Opry.] No, as far as I know, there weren’t any then. I don’t remember hearing any either. As a matter of fact, Minnie Pearl, as far as I know, for quite a time, was the only woman on the program. [Wade Hall says, You see these group pictures on the Opry stage, and the only woman I can see in my memory is Minnie Pearl.] The only possible place where there might have been a female would have been in a gospel group–a family group, you know, with gospel singing-gospel music. [WHAT ABOUT THE CARTER FAMILY–THERE WERE WOMEN IN IT??]

‘Course, I always used to laugh because one of the early WSM people was Uncle Dave Macon and his son Doris–which used to just throw me, you know [laughs]. That’s like a guy named Sue or whatever [laughs]. I think his name was spelled with two r’s instead of one–Dorris. The girl’s name is just Doris usually. The boy’s name is double r. Well, I don’t know...

You know, one thing–I been tryin’ to keep my memory so that I could think of things to talk about, and I wanted to ask you, Did I talk about the trip we made for the State Department to Guantanamo Air Base and that? No?? OK, well it’s something I did want to talk about. In 1965, the State Department wrote to–got in touch with the station–and wanted us to go to Santo Domingo and entertain the troops there–and also to Guantanamo Bay. And they didn’t want a very large group, so it ended up that Tiny Thomale who played the piano--and accordion–so there weren’t going to be pianos everywhere–and Bobby Lewis, the young fella I mentioned earlier who sang the current popular country songs–and I–and then the two girl singers we had--Joann Hale and Judy Marshall. So we were the five who comprised this group and went down there and we went from Louisville to Fort Bragg and then were flown down there–an army–what am I trying to say?–not a freight plane but a cargo plane–in a cargo plane down there that had some of those old hard bucket seats, you knows, [laughs] and flew us to Santo Domingo.

And I’ll never forget the first night we were gonna do a show in Santo Domingo. They had it in a big soccer stadium. There was supposed to have been 15,000 American soldiers there at the stadium. And I walked out–the way we had this set up–I went out with the guitar–sang a few songs–told a couple of stories–then I called Tiny Thomale out and the two of us would do something–then Bobby Lewis and the three of us–and then the girl singers. Anyway, I walked out on stage with that guitar over my shoulder and some–and way off in the distance I heard somebody say, Well, I’ll be damned–“T-Bar-V” [laughs heartily]. That was really somethin’ at that place. Yeah. We entertained for several days there in Santo Domingo and then went over to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba and entertained there. And that was our last one there, and they had scheduled us to come back to Fort Bragg and entertain the troops at Fort Bragg. So they put us up in a motel there the night we arrived and the next evening we were to do the program–actually, afternoon–we were gonna do the program during the day.

And they sent one of the Army buses which were sort of converted school buses–they were that type–over to pick us up. And this motel had a drive-through area where the front door was, you know, and it was covered. And the army bus driver came in–we all got in there and it was just like the school buses of the time–a metal rod at the top of the seats, you know, and things like that. And I guess the young fella never did look or anything else–anyway, he started and he ran into that canopy hanging down there and when he did, it threw everybody in the floor but Joann Hale hit that iron bar with her mouth and broke two or three teeth off and blood was everywhere. So, when they got the first aid people there and took her to the hospital and so on, but everybody was so shaken up that they decided not to do the program [laughs] so we didn’t do the program. But then, she–oh, it was months getting her mouth repaired and teeth repaired. This was in 1965.

I don’t know what was goin’ on at that time. Well, there were troops in Santo Domingo and I think it was like a peace-keeping group or a group to keep their troops from taking over the place, you know–I don’t really know what that was other than that kind of thing. And of course, Guantanamo Bay was just a big naval base, you know. And since we were down there, they wanted us to go over there and entertain the troops. [Wade Hall says, Of course, we have troops around the world even now–and I guess they still have entertainment for the troops, and Randy Atcher agrees.] They still do some, yeah. But nothing as big as it was–the USO in World War II–yeah, everybody was doing it.

One of the funny things, too. We were in Santo Domingo and of course, they always had transportation to get us from the airplane to wherever we were gonna be in the barracks–or wherever–for the night. And we were in this–just four-door sedan, you know–and goin’ down the road and we came to a red light. And we stopped and you looked across and there were about six lanes–every one of them facing you–there was no space for you [laughs] to go on through [laughs]. And as soon as that light changed, you would not believe those cars–they were zippin’ across in front of each other and goin’ this way and that–and we were able to just weed our way [laughs] across the road. I thought, you know, sure, we HAD to get hit but they were goin’ in every direction and just cutting each other off, you know–but that was a sight that you really looked at them and thought, Uh-oh [laughs]–what’s gonna happen here?

When WHAS decided to cut down on the radio programs we were doing–we were doing several radio programs and so on–we were left pretty much with “The Hayloft Hoedown” and “The T-Bar-V” program--and “The Old Kentucky Barn Dance” as the only radio program we were doing–they kind of decided that I wasn’t working hard enough, so they put me on the announcing staff. And I did station breaks and commercials and the AP weather, you know, that came in., and so on. And Paul Clark, who was a fine fella, was the chief announcer at WHAS. And he had been reading at the American Printing House for the Blind for several years. And he was talkin’ to me one day–and he said, You know, you ought to go out and audition at the Printing House for the Blind–I think you could read up there. I thought, Well, you know, that might be worth doing. So I went over to the American Printing House and the lady who auditions you was totally blind–a very nice lady called Tina Wallace. And so we did the audition, you know–they gave me two or three paragraphs to read–and she was listenin’ to it. And when I came in where she was afterward, she said, Well, you fooled me. Said, I thought you were a country boy. And said, You don’t sound much like it–you only mispronounced a couple of words. And one of ‘em was–I always say–then, I said possessions with an “s” sound instead of a “z” sound which is the proper way to say possessions. And I said, in’queery–and at that time, at least, in’quiry was the proper pronunciation. So those were the only two things and she decided that she could use me. So I went to work right away reading over there. This was in 1969. And at that time, you know, I was still busy at WHAS and doing personal appearances and so on. I would read maybe twice a week; each session was always two hours and you read what you could in that length of time. It’s about two hours and ten minutes now–they’ve changed the routine around a little bit.

But, uh, so you know, I started reading there and continued until, oh, gosh, it was sometime in the–I went into the real estate business after I left WHAS–and got pretty busy with that–and I got to the point where I really just didn’t have time to read. So I was away from reading for about three or four years. And then in about, oh, gosh, 1986 or ‘7, I went back after having read up through the early ‘80s, you know--and back to reading–I’ve been reading there again ever since. And it’s something I really enjoy doing. I think it has had a great effect on my being able to keep my mind pretty clear and be able to do things ‘cause I read every day and I still do. And uh, in the early days, they had me reading almost exclusively Western stories. I was reading either Zane Grey or Louis L’Amour [sp??} or whoever was the popular writer of the time in the Westerns. I did some other things ‘cause we did Readers’ Digest and we did Newsweek, and I’d those some of the time.

So and I had been reading there, I guess, this last time–in 1994–there is a group of people, they tell me–well, not a group of people but all of the people who listen to these books that we read–vote for the person that they want to be–to receive the Alexander Scourby Award. And in 1994–by this time, I was reading pretty much entirely non-fiction–so they an award for that. So they told me that I was the recipient of the Alexander Scourby Award for Non-Fiction. He was a reader for the blind for many years, and then he died and that’s when they started the awards. He narrated a lot of TV–a lot of the books and on TV too. And so they paid my way to New York–I went up there–the foundation for the blind is in New York. And each of us who was–they had me from Louisville and a young woman who did fiction. And then from the foundation in New York, they had a couple of people. And from, uh–there were three, I believe, places where they read the books for the blind and a couple of representatives from each. Anyway, they presented them to us in a little theater there in downtown Manhattan. And I thought it was kind of interesting because the person who introduced you and talked to the people there about what you did was blind–in each case. And then when they introduced you, you would have two or three paragraphs, or pages, to read–and let the people here what you sounded like, and so on.

So I was very proud of that award–and still am. And I have the award and some pictures of the trip there to get it.

Yes, I read mainly non-fiction now although they’ve got me back doing some Westerns–I just finished two or three books by Max Brand but I’m doin’ mostly non-fiction, and I enjoy it.

[Wade Hall says, So you all record any books that are not already recorded?] The Library of Congress sends us what’s to be recorded. They send it down to the American Printing House, and then there are, I guess, about 35 or so readers at the American Printing House who read. The sessions are two hours and ten minutes long. And there are nine studios and someone is working in one of those studios each two-hour period, you know. We have a sound technician–yes, we have what’s called a monitor who runs the tape machine that you’re putting the book on, of course, they’re there to keep timing, and if you make an error, they stop the tape and you have to go back and start the sentence–following the sentence before and correct that mistake, you know. You couldn’t do it without them. Now in the early days when Paul Clark was there–I mentioned him earlier–they did this on disc–15 minute sides and if you got 2/3 of the way through and made a mistake, you had to go back and start over, you know. But now these machines they have are...No, when I started they had already gone to tape.

And I have recorded between 500 and 600 books for them. And I have enjoyed it. I just finished John Glenn: A Memoir–you know, it’s about his life and his trips to the moon–I mean his trips in space, including his last one, you know, at his late age.

[Wade Hall says, When you’re reading, do you listen to what you’re reading–does the meaning come through to you–or are you just saying words?] No, you wear head phones so you can hear yourself. And one of the things this monitor I was talkin’ about is apt to stop you for is if you put emphasis in the wrong place, you know. So you listen to what you’re reading, and if I make a mistake, I can instantly tell it–can stop myself, you know, and it’s easy to do but the microphones are so sensitive that if I raise my arm up off the desk, it can be heard. So you have to just be extremely, extremely quiet the whole time ‘cause those sounds–if they get on the tape–see, it’s proofread here–and the person who’s proofing it will hear those sounds and they send it back to you and you have to correct that sentence–take that noise out of there. And then, of course, it’s sent to the Library of Congress and THEY proofread it, and then if it passes their proofing, then it’s sent to libraries all over the world.

[Wade Hall says, Are you reading books that haven’t been read before?] Now and then I’ll get a book that’s re-read, you know, it was read maybe 15 years ago–or somethin’ like that. And they want a better copy. Almost all of them are new books, like the John Glenn book is a 1999 copyright. [Wade Hall says, You mentioned the Max Brand and Louis L’Amour books–those have been around for a long time.] Louis L’Amour particularly but these Max Brands–a grandson I believe it is–no, his name was Frederick Faust [sp??}–Max Brand’s real name was Frederick Faust–and he wrote books under four or five or six different names–but most of his Westerns were under the name of Max Brand. And apparently, this grandson is getting these re-published as the original manuscript–and his–and the contention is that the publishers changed some of them from what the original was when they published them some years ago, you know. And one of the ones I read was about a man named Dwayne [sp??} and it’s supposed to be one of his last ones and one that was just recently found sort of, you know. So it’s a very different kind of thing. And to tell you the truth, I’ll take Louis L’Amour any time–Max Brand’s stories were kind of

bizarre, you know, for a Western kind of story.

When I get a new book to read, I get a copy to read it over at home to become familiar with it. Yes, I have never really had to do that. There are some of the readers who will read it but I scan the book. I’ve developed being pretty much able to see all the meaning and so on without actually reading it. And I’m looking for words I don’t know--and names–because the reader is responsible for research with regard to pronunciations. So I find town names and place names and all this–see, even in the John Glenn book there were a lot of Chinese places ‘cause he was over there in that area–and uh, you have all these places names–some you can find in research, some you can’t, you know. Then you have to go to a vocabulary thing that shows how this letter or this group of letters is pronounced in that language, you know. So it takes quite a little bit of preparation. But I’ve gotten so I can scan through pretty much and get the emphasis in the right place and pick out these things I don’t know. And then I read at 8 o’clock. I usually get there in the 7:30 range and then I can go into the research library there and look up things that I have found that I don’t really know. Yes, that’s in the mornings. And I do that most every day.

[Wade Hall tells about reader Mitzi Friedlander asking him pronunciation help on an author’s name or a German word, or some such. And Randy Atcher laughs.] Well, I’ll have to remember that–I didn’t know you’d be a source for that. Every once in a while we run into that.

Yell, Mitzi Friedlander has been reading a long time. Lou Harpanow [sp??], who was the WAVE newscaster and announcer, reads there. Most of the others are actors–from Actors Theater here or...I wish I could think of their names–I need–Ann Hodapp is one. Then there’s a boy who does a lot of commercials–his name is John Polk–he does a lot of commercials now. And then a fella named Roy Avers [sp??] is one that’s been there for a long time. And he–as far as I know–has not been into acting or radio–just has read there for a long time.

Yes, this is a paid position. The Library of Congress pays for it. There is the thing called Recording for the Blind which is a volunteer thing. But that’s strictly textbooks read for the blind at schools, where this is for distribution to libraries and is checked out by blind or disabled people who can’t hold a book–all the world. Yes, I’ve had mail from China and from other countries, you know, saying that they’ve got the book and uh...And it’s funny–they always say, I’ve read your book--you know [laughs].

The Library of Congress decides which books will be read but they don’t decide who will read–it’s done by a panel here at the Printing House. And they pretty much know what you like to read and what you specialize in, so they know to give you these kinds of books. [Wade Hall says, If it were a scientific book with scientific terms–is there somebody who does that?] Yes, there are some. I’ve done some of those–medical books particularly–and some of ‘em that just the preparation time is just unimaginable, you know. But we do have a medical dictionary that has names of most all of the things that are not too new. Well, fiction would be easy to read if you are an actor. Now, I don’t really like to read fiction because–say you got three or four people on one page–and these people can make each one of ‘em have a little different sound so that they sound different, you know. The dialogue of people. So I don’t like to do that much. I can read and read what’s said and change a little from an older person to a younger–that kind of thing–or from a female to a male speaking. But I can’t do the way they–those actors can do it.

And that’s one of the reasons I like the non-fiction, plus the fact that I learn so much. Right now I’m reading a book called “Mighty Stonewall.” It’s about between 400 and 500 pages in newspaper print. And it’s about Stonewall Jackson–and a huge book about his life. It’s a new biography. The author is–Frank–what’s the fella’s name?–well, I can get it for you ‘cause I’ve got the book right in here. And it’s, you know, it’s a good book and you learn so much. Like this is all about the Mexican War, you know, and these things leading up to the Civil War–some of ‘em after the Civil War–but the Mexican War was before that. And the Civil War and–so you can learn a lot by reading these and I prefer them to the fiction–romance and all that stuff.

I still record–daily–every morning. They have instituted a new system which ev’body kind of likes where–that’s when they stretched the [can’t understand word??] and made it go from two hours to two hours and 15 minutes. And of course, they want you to quit five minutes before the end of that so the monitor can go to another studio or help with a different person. So they decided to add to the time–this 5 to 10 minutes of reading–and then every second Friday, you have off. And then it’s divided up–the studios are working because some are not on this Friday but were the Friday before, and so on. So that’s a little different. But I really, you know, I enjoy it. I get up at 6:30 every morning, and feel good, go over there and read and come back, and then I’ve got time for my golf game. I’ve got a whole day ahead of me [laughs].

Yes, you can have something to drink while you’re reading. I usually get a large cup of coffee and I’ll have it there with me and sip on that at times, you know, or I could have water if I wanted it. But most of the time I usually have coffee. It doesn’t pick up any slurp sounds because the microphone’s turned off when I’m having a drink of coffee, you know, yeah. [laughs]

It’s kind of interesting–if people could see, I think they would be interested–I have on the desk at which I’m reading–with the microphone there–a box which has an on switch I can turn and that causes it to record. There is another switch that I can stop the tape if I want to or need to–most cases the monitor does–but sometimes they’re thinking of something else and you go past a mistake and you know, you can stop it yourself. But when you make a mistake in a sentence, you have to cut in right at the end of the preceding sentence and correct the mistake. And you learn that in your reading, maybe two syllables will cut in right at the end of that sentence after it’s finished, including whatever consonant sound was on the end, you know, and then pick up the next one without getting any of what’s previously on there. So you learn–as I said in my case, it’s about two syllables–in some cases it’s more, in some cases it’s less. But you have to learn that and then I’m responsible then to cut in my microphone at the proper time–to pick up the sentence that needs correction, correct it and then continue to read.

The monitor controls the tape but only to the extent that she’ll start the tape in there with say, two sentences prior to where the mistake was made. And then when it gets to that sentence just before the mistake is, I have to cut myself in at that point. So the monitor plays the tape back and you hear it–it doesn’t stop when that arrives–I cut in and then I’m on recording, you see–correct the mistake and just continue as though it never had happened, you know. And, you know, if you heard these recordings, you’d notice sometimes where maybe a breath might be only half there and you’d hear this–[he makes half-a-breath sound] you know, this little sound just before the word was said and that’s because you cut in. You couldn’t wait long enough to get that out–you know, to get on [with the reading]. I’m sure the average person wouldn’t even notice that–most people don’t. But the microphones are so sensitive that, uh, as I mentioned earlier, just any little sound–even if you have to wet your lips a little bit–your lips are dried out–you wet ‘em a little bit–and you’ll hear that. And it picks up breathing, too. Yeah, you get so you read without breathing much, you know, and sometimes some of the sentences are a paragraph long and you find it a little hard to get through it but uh....

I don’t really know how the Library of Congress chooses the titles but I get the impression that there are people there–I suspect, the ones who proofread what we send up there–that decided that–and it may be that some of the blind will write to them and say they want this book, or somethin’. And then the Library of Congress probably has a group of people–probably including the proofreaders–who get together and decide that this would be good or this would not be good. But generally speaking, we pretty much get whatever’s coming out on the Best Seller lists, plus a lot of older material, too, that hasn’t been done before.

They parcel the recording assignments out. The various books could be recorded at any number of recording sites, not just in Louisville. And where the book was written or where the author is from does not have any bearing on where it’s recorded. And of course, the Library of Congress, see, has to get permission of the publishers and owners, you know–all that. Plus the fact that the tapes are made here at the Printing House–the duplicates, you know. But then the Library of Congress decides where they go, you know–and they have to mail them out to all these different libraries and it’s an interesting and intricate operation.

You don’t really have any idea how many people are listening to your tapes. You’ll hear now and then from people who say that they enjoy ‘em. There are several people here in Louisville who do that I see–periodically–and they’ll say, Well, I just finished so-and-so book or somethin’. They always say “reading”–it’s always–I just read your last book [laughs]--so-and so and so-and--so. No, they don’t say, I just heard your last book.

When I left WHAS–and I told you about how suddenly we were sort of let go there–I had 19 different kinds of offers of things from people wanting me to do. And the two that I looked at hardest were insurance and real estate. And at that time, I thought of insurance–you know, you’d have to go to somebody’s house [laughs] and sort of tell ‘em you’re gonna be sick [laughs] one of these days and you’re gonna need this [laughs]. And I didn’t feel like that was quite my thing. So I decided to go into real estate. And at that time, there was a real estate company here in town called Gibson-Pfannschmidt [sp??]. And Fred Pfannschmidt called me and talked to me and offered me [a spot.] I had never met or even heard of him before–really, I hadn’t paid that much attention. So I went to a fella named Bemus Lawrence {sp?? Of both names], who played on Western’s basketball team when I was goin’ to school at Western Kentucky, was teaching real estate in just a fast three-day weekend. And you take this course and then you had to take the state exam and pass it. And he was really very good ‘cause he covered everything, and I took that course and then the next exam, which was a couple of weeks later–took the exam and passed without any problems. It was a one-weekend course; yeah, it was a real short course. And the hardest part of it was law–was the law’s about real estate. The other things were pretty simple because they had things about, you know, percentages of interest and that kind of thing, you know–figuring those things out was high school arithmetic, you know. But the things about the law you had to memorize quite a few things but he gave it to us in such a way that it was just a–at least, it stayed with me–and I...Well, actually, you had a kind of a little booklet [to go along with the course I took].

So I passed that exam and went to work for Fred Pfannschmidt and Gibson-Pfannschmidt. And I guess I’d been working with them about two years–so about 1973, I decided I would take a broker’s exam. See, if you’re a salesman, you have to work for a broker–a person who is called a broker–you’re working under that person. And any contracts you have and so on, has to go back through that person and that office. So I decided I wanted to take a broker’s exam. So this time I did the same thing–I thought, Well, I might as well get this, so I took another one of those three-day courses and took the brokerage exam and passed that. When you become a broker, that means you can open your own office–if you want to. Well, right at that time, I didn’t want to but about 1978, one young man who had been working some with Gibson-Pfannschmidt decided he wanted to start his own company and asked me if I would join him and we’d open an office together. So his name was Dennis Goff–a real fine young fella–so we opened and–and he was married to a very nice young woman from Carrollton, Kentucky. So we decided we’d open two offices–one in Carrollton and one in Lousville. And I would do the Louisville office and he would take the one in Carrollton, and they called it Atcher-Goff Realtors.

So I worked at that for, well, I guess for 7 or 8 years, and I had agents working for me. One of those things like people talk about today where it’s hard to depend on whether they’re gonna do the job or not, whether they’re gonna come in...So I ended up–I was spending quite a number of hours at the job. And decided about 1984 that I’d had enough. Real estate is an evening and weekend business. You have to have both people when you’re showing properties, you know–you can’t show it jist to the wife or jist to the husband. So, you know, it just was taking more time than I wanted to give to it. Yes, I was still reading for the blind. So if I worked at night in real estate, I had to get up early the next morning to read. So I decided then I would just hang my license up–as they say–put it in escrow. But didn’t really do that–I placed it with another firm after I–well, first I’ll tell yah–when I decided that, I sold out my portion of the company to my partner, Dennis Goff. He asked to be able to keep the name, so all over Carroll County and Trimble County and up that way–Oldham County–you see Atcher-Goff Real Estate signs all over. I have nothing to do with it anymore. I guess he wanted to use my name because so many people know it, and you know, we were and are real good friend–his family and mine.

And so then about 1984, I decided I would hang it up. But then, there’s a real estate organization here in town called Kepple-Keene–they were called at that time. And Don Kepple talked to me about placin’ my license...so I said, Well, I’d place my license with him. And what he more or less said was, You know–you don’t have to do much–you list a place now and then and you’ll sell it, and so on. So that’s what I did–I placed my license with them for maybe two, three years, and then I decided that I’d had enough.

No, I wasn’t a good salesman. Not really–because I can’t push people. I’m not aggressive enough. I need–I need that person I’m talking to about buying to agree with me right from the beginning, you know. If I begin to come up to too many of these objections, it sort of keeps me from bein’, as you said, aggressive. [Wade Hall says, Then you think, Well you don’t need this, Atcher says, Yeah, right!] No, I made pretty good on it but I’m just not really a good salesman. I was very good at listing because if people decided they were gonna sell their house and then they’d call me, I’d go out and I could do that. And I had taken an appraiser’s course, so I knew how to pretty much appraise property to get its true value within a thousand dollars or two of its true value. So I was good at listing but the selling side of it–uh, I’m just not that aggressive kind of person.

Yes, I’ll never forget the first property I sold. It was in Fairdale, Kentucky, and the office I was in was on Blue Lick Road in Okolona–the Gibson-Pfannschmidt office. And this young couple were lookin’ for a house and at that time, they had houses that were–when they were built, they were backed by FHA–Federal Housing Administration. And all of them were like two bedrooms, a living room, and a kitchen, and a bath, on a concrete slab. So we started looking at houses and we looked at a bunch of ‘em–all of ‘em pretty much that same type of thing. Usually they were brick exterior and so on. Anyway they finally found one that they liked in Fairdale, Kentucky. The only trouble was we went to see the house and it got dark ‘cause we got there fairly late, I guess. And it got dark. And they knew their way around, I guess–they left. I got completely lost out in Fairdale [laughs]–I liked to never got it back to the office–but I finally did, of course. And sold ‘em the house and we closed it and my commission was $75. [laughs] And I used to have that–I don’t have it anymore, I don’t think–but I put it–didn’t even cash the check, you know–put it in a frame [laughs].

Somebody else had listed the house. I was the selling agent. So we shared the percentage that uh–in those days, it was 6 percent. And I think it’s still pretty much that way. ‘Course, if you’re selling new houses for some builder, they’ll decide maybe 5 percent because you’ve got all the listings, so to speak–you’re working for this builder selling his new houses. But then if you go into commercial real estate, it’s usually 10 percent or more. And one of the things I think I regretted was my inability to be aggressive in sales--probably kept me from doing it, but I always thought I would have been better at commercial sales than I was with people in their houses. But see, I never had any difficulty getting in to talk to people because they knew me on sight, you know. So it was an asset, and as I said, I made pretty good money at it but it just wasn’t my [cup of tea.]

No, I never sold a million dollars worth of houses in a year–no. I have sold hundreds of thousands but I’ve never–I don’t think I’ve ever sold a million. [referring to ads in the paper announcing a salesperson who has sold $1,000,000 worth of real estate in a year] These days you don’t have to sell many houses to reach a million dollars–two of ‘em would be it, yeah. Yes, I’m amazed at real estate prices today. You know, I sold a whole bunch of places in Old Louisville–three-storey, solid brick walls, three-storey houses, $14,000, $13,000, and so on, you know. And then now, ‘course most people who bought them then weren’t really plannin’ on redoing ‘em and everything. But then they made pretty good money when they sold it to these people who decided they were gonna renovate it, you know. And now they’re some beautiful old places down there that have been renovated and the prices on ‘em are like [laughs]–out of sight!! I never sold anything on St. James Court but I sold in the area–mostly the ones I sold were on South First and Second and on Hill Street and that area.

But I have never regretted the fact I hung my license up. And of course, at the same time I did that, I was ready for my Social Security checks to come in. So with what I had and what I was doing, I didn’t need to worry too much, and uh, so I put my license in escrow–that’s giving it back to real estate commission and they hold it for you. And you pay annual dues but that’s all. If you decide you want to go back to it, you can pay a premium to them and they’ll give your license back and you can go back to ‘em. Nowadays, because it’s as complicated as it is, you have to take some more classes to bring you up to date on what’s happening. So I don’t want to do that–not at going on [82 years old]. Oh, yeah, we almost always had a lawyer involved with the real estate transactions.