Oral History Interview with Jesse Edwards and Tom Edwards

DAVID WOLFORD: It is the fifteenth of August. I am here in Madisonville with Mrs. Jesse Edwards, who was a teacher and principal in the Hopkins County system and her son, Thomas Edwards, who was a student, especially at Pride Elementary. We're going to talk about that in just a few minutes. But first if, perhaps you could just introduce yourselves and tell me where you were born and where you grew up. And, you know a little bit about your background.

JESSE EDWARDS: Well, I was an Arnold and I would be Jesse Arnold Edwards. I was born in Hopkins County. And went to a one room little school and on into Providence to finish High School and from there, in the early years of the Depression I went on to college. And while I was in college I taught a seven months school, starting in July and ended in January and then I would go back to school. It took me five years to get a four-year college course. And in the 1:00meantime, of course, four years of teaching experience. From there I graduated in '37, and went on to Louisville and I taught in Bullitt County five years. And I came back to Hopkins County. And after my two sons were a little, I guess maybe two and five, I returned to teaching in 1950 at the Waddill School and I was there five years. And then when the new buildings were put up in Hopkins County, Pride being one of them, I was asked to go out there as principal. This I did. The first year I taught third grade, one room of third grade, and was principal. And the second year I taught one half day, was principal and after 2:00that then I was full-time principal. Spent eighteen years there. I retired in July 1 of 1973. I never did substitute. I enjoyed all my many, many years there. I think I really thought I owned the place. I loved all the students and I loved the faculty. And I enjoyed it. So I was ready to retire.

DW: Mr. Edwards, would you tell us a little about your background?

TOM EDWARDS: Oh yes, born and raised in Hopkins County. Born in 1948. I went to school at the, of course, the Pride Avenue and on through Hopkins County. Got my college degree from the University of Mississippi School of Accounting. Worked for a while with public accounting firms, served in the military. Then came back, was in the grocery business for a number of years, and currently work as 3:00an accountant, went back to my college degree and a work for a local business man.

DW: Okay. Mrs. Edwards, let's talk about the time while you were teaching, perhaps the early fifties or a, you know, I want to talk about Madisonville in the fifties; it doesn't have to be strictly about the school. But you kindly describe Madisonville then. What was the town like? Did, how did the races co-exist? The black and white people, that kind of thing.

J. EDWARDS: Well, I went back to teaching really in 1950, but I came back here, we did from Louisville in 1946. We had, there were separate schools for the 4:00blacks and the whites. There was a high school here, the Rosenwald High School which was black, and the Branch Street School was the grade school. And we had, I guess, one high school for the whites and then the other grade schools. And it was in 1950 then that I returned to teaching and I was at Waddill. I had a third grade there, one of two. And I remained there for the five years. And in the meantime, that's when the new buildings were built, and I went to Pride. And it was, I guess, about three years after that, really, that we had our first black children.

DW: Hm-hmm. Could, before we get into that, can you kind of compare Branch Street and Rosenwald Schools, to maybe the other, those were the black schools, to the white schools that existed in Hopkins County?

J. EDWARDS: Well, I never was in them all that much, but Rosenwald had a mighty good school and they had a good strong basketball program. And they had a strong band program. They had a good curriculum there.

DW: Were the teachers, did they hold college degrees there?

J. EDWARDS: As far as I know they did. Yes, the greater part of them did. Although in those days we didn't all have college degrees. I had teachers who were at Pride who did not have a degree, but they were working towards one. So I trust a lot of their teachers were the same way. But now some of them I know definitely did have. But now Branch Street, I'm not real sure, a, I was not there all that much, but they had a full enrollment and as far as I know their, they had a good curriculum also. They had good strong schools. I was always under the impression of it.

DW: Okay. How did the a, in 1954 the Supreme Court declared that separate 6:00schools for the races would be unconstitutional. Do you recall what the reaction was in Hopkins County when that decision was handed down?

J. EDWARDS: Now I don't recall just right then. I do remember that they had the one student at Waddill. And that was an adjoining school and I was interested in that. I, I think we just accepted it as a matter of course. This is what it is, you know. And as the students began to enroll in the schools and as far as I was concerned we had four more students that day who came to enroll.

DW: Hm-hmm.

J. EDWARDS: We looked at them as a student, not as a black or white or yellow or whatever. They were students as far as I was concerned.

DW: Did a, do you recall either perhaps before the blacks entered Pride or after, either one, do you recall the other white teachers, you know, what was their opinion?

J. EDWARDS: I don't recall that anybody ever said anything. I don't recall, I don't recall that they did. As far as I'm concerned, they, I don't know if they did they said it other places rather than with me.

DW: So there was no protest to the administration?

J. EDWARDS: No. Not that I recall at all.

DW: No teachers left their jobs or anything like that?

J. EDWARDS: No, no they didn't.

DW: Let's go ahead and talk about the situation here. In 1957, a black boy by the name of James Van Leer integrated the Waddill Avenue School. And I know there was some opposition to that. But it seems to me from what I've read that a year later in the fall of '58 that there was probably a bigger problem with 8:00other black students going over to Pride Elementary, the school where you were principal and the school, Tom, where you attended. Maybe, Tom, maybe do you remember that day?

T. EDWARDS: You talking about at Pride?

DW: At Pride, yeah.

T. EDWARDS: Oh, certainly.

DW: Can you kindly describe what happened that morning or that day?

T.EDWARDS: Well, now I don't know if I can as far as really remembering details. I mean it was a, certainly it was a very controversial day. To a certain amount of confrontation.

DW: Hm-hmm.

T. EDWARDS: And as I recall, I mean even to the point that we had U.S. Marshalls and of course the, a student at an elementary school, I mean that's a big issue. You know, there for the protection and to help people ( ) law enforcement. 9:00Yeah it was a, it was just a big to-do as compared to with like say, the year before whenever Van Leer had entered Waddill Avenue. So, it seemed like a lot of confusion. I mean it was hard to concentrate on the fact that you were there for school. Of course, I was also involved as the son of the principal. So there was more attention, certainly, paid to me. Plenty of threats were made locally as well as you know from outside sources, outside of Hopkins County. And that's the reason, I think for the presence of U.S. marshals and so forth. Probably the 10:00outside sources stirred the issue far more than the actual students. And, and possibly parents of the students. It was, as you see most anywhere it's the outside sources that were --

DW: And how far outside Madisonville are you talking about? I mean, are you, I think I understand what you are saying. It wasn't necessarily the Madisonville parents that were protesting this. Is that what you are saying?

T. EDWARDS: Right, I mean it was, it was just, of course I guess that was just kind of part of the times. But I mean there were people that I recall from other states, from other areas that were probably more interested in what was going on than, than we were locally. So, you know I, I couldn't begin to say, but I know 11:00in going back I that there were threats made to mom and to teachers and students so forth from the outside sources more. Not to say that there weren't some, you know, problems locally. You know, there was, but --

DW: What kind of threats are you talking about?

T. EDWARDS: Well, I don't know. Bodily harm, burn schools, I mean --

DW: Phone calls, was this, were these --

T. EDWARDS: Sure.

DW: Did your phone ring at the nighttime?

J. EDWARDS: My phone didn't ring an awfully lot. In those days we had some party lines. Of course some of this might come second hand and everything. Some conversations were heard that they were willing to tar and feather me; you know that type of thing, thinking I should be able to do something about it.

DW: How did that make you feel because you weren't really involved in the decision to --

J. EDWARDS: I was not at all. I was just there as the principal but yet I was the one who caught it. And, of course, next the teachers were, this type thing. 12:00And as you said, even as the son, you know, this type of thing. Had another son at junior high normally would walk home. Well, we saw that he got home safely, this type thing. And then, out front of Pride School. If you've been by there you know there's kind of an infield out there. That infield was filled with people, protestors, this type of thing and people, just sightseers. Vicious, hollering remarks, just ridiculous. They got vicious.

DW: How big of a crowd do you think was there?

J. EDWARDS: Oh, I just don't know. 300, I guess.

T. EDWARDS: I would say so.

DW: You recall the crowd too?

T. EDWARDS: Oh yeah, because like I said I mean, it was a, I mean, when you stop and think about it, I recall the fact there was a U.S. Marshall by my side.

DW: Was that particular because you were the son of the principal, you think?

T. EDWARDS: Hm-hmm.

DW: For sure? And you knew that at the time? What about your friends and your classmates, did they ever say anything in particular to you?

T. EDWARDS: No, not, you know, nothing negative, nothing, obviously there were comments made about all that's going on, but as far as the issue that it was all about, as far as integration, no, I don't recall again that it was an issue among the students and classmates. The issue with us probably was the commotion, all that was going on. Like what I said when you have marshals and sheriffs and police and people that throw rocks or people that holler words that you're not accustomed to hearing and so forth. You know --

J. EDWARDS: It's frightening.

T. EDWARDS: Yeah. We talked about that, but as far as the issue of blacks coming to our school or integrating, no that, that was not really the, that wasn't the issue.

DW: It was just the hype around the issue, really, --

T. EDWARDS: It was the hype around it --

DW: And the danger.

T. EDWARDS: Like I said and really the outside forces. Now, that's not to say there weren't parents of kids at school that disagreed with it, you know, but as a general rule it's more the outside forces.

DW: Do you think the students in Pride Elementary that were your age give or take that they welcomed the blacks?

T. EDWARDS: I don't think it made any difference.

DW: They were just there to go to school?

J. EDWARDS: In those days, we would read in the paper and we would hear about the places where they would get into the building, people would who were anti-, 15:00would walk down the halls and probably snatch somebody out. You know we read those things and knew of those things at the time. So we were warned to guard against things like that because of, not have people trespassing or not loping in our building. And we would ask that, you know, they not come in and just walk our halls. And that's what some people were pretty much trying their best to do. But, a, you just kind of back off from that and just hope that it doesn't happen. But we had a bomb threat or two, you see. And then at that time the building, the city, the school was not in the city, it was in the county. The line was right in front of the school, right in the middle of the street, so we depended on the sheriff and the Kentucky, Kentucky State Police. So with bomb threats and this type of thing, well you would call the state police and they came. And we'd go through the building, and we emptied it and they'd go through the building and just like that. I had some mail, some letters. Evidently the AP 16:00picked up on it as far as pictures and this type thing. I had a letter or so that had some pictures in it showing students going in the front door, parents or mothers there close by that was put out of the Stars and Stripes military magazine and sent from overseas.

DW: Really? So the news made it that far?

J. EDWARDS: Oh my golly, uh-huh. Just like this type thing there. Yeah, I don't think. But anyway, it was one of them. I do know there was some of them in the front door. And they'd write a little note that I should not have allowed those to be there .

T. EDWARDS: Right.

J. EDWARDS: And I had letters from California about the stand that we were taking. It just was not a pleasant situation.

DW: Did any parents remove their children, did any white parents remove their children from the school? Do you remember that?

J. EDWARDS: They'd keep them out a few days. I don't recall that they ever, 17:00well, they just really were not permitted to do a lot of transferring, take them out and take them to another school. That was the school policy.

DW: Hm-hmm.

J. EDWARDS: They, some of them objected to it.

DW: But there was no, you wouldn't call it a boycott? There wasn't a drop in enrollment?

J. EDWARDS: No.

DW: Not anything like that?

J. EDWARDS: No. No.

DW: Maybe a couple removed?

J. EDWARDS: A temporary thing, just a temporary thing. Hm-hmm.

DW: Okay. Were the local authorities, I guess you didn't call the city police for this?

J. EDWARDS: The city came just real close to us. The city police helped to direct the children in the afternoons, but they were just a few yards from our exit driveway.

DW: And they didn't, I guess they didn't want to overstep their jurisdiction.

J. EDWARDS: They didn't overstep. They didn't overstep.

DW: Were the county police there in full force?

J. EDWARDS: The sheriff, there would be the sheriff, yes. Not full force. We might have a one or two.

DW: Enough, I mean, I guess were they supportive? I guess I should ask it that way.

J. EDDWARDS: Yes, they were supportive. I mean we would have the state troopers would be there in crews. I would be on the inside of the building and I, there was a lot of this that I didn't really know, what a, at times what went on out front. I wasn't out there to recognize a lot of people. And once I'd go in, I could look out the windows of my office after our bell had rung and we'd start. I could see and recognize different people. But a lot of them I didn't know. Of course, TV didn't cover as many things then as they do now. I do recall seeing them setting up on the car tops, setting tripods up on the car tops outside in the driveway.

DW: Do you think that made national news back then too?

J. EDWARDS: I know it did.

DW: Yeah? Help me out on this. I can't remember. Was this something that was 19:00broadcast on TV back then? I'm a little unsure about that.

J. EDWARDS: I guess. I don't know.

DW: You don't recall seeing anything on the news?

J. EDWARDS: Uh, TV. I'm not too sure how well fixed for TV we were. Did we own a TV at the time?

T. EDWARDS: Yeah, we did.

J. EDWARDS: We did have, but it wasn't --

DW: I wasn't certain either how common it was. I knew it existed.

T. EDWARDS: Yeah, it was fairly common, as I recall.

DW: Do you recall any news reports on TV?

T. EDWARDS: No.

J. EDWARDS: Uh-uhn. No, I don't recall anything on TV.

DW: What other --

J. EDWARDS: Radio.

DW: You did recall radio?

J. EDWARDS: Oh, yes, radio was full of it.

DW: And newspapers obviously had a lot.

J. EDWARDS: Oh yes. Oh yes.

DW: What other particular steps did the administration take? You know either you particular at your building or the countywide administration when this became 20:00apparent that it was going to be a problem? What are some other special steps?

J. EDWARDS: I don't know what they did other than with me, they would come out there early in the morning and be there supportive. And then come on in, on in the building, and walk through the halls and --.

DW: Who is they? Superintendent?

J. EDWARDS: Superintendent and then the Director of Pupil Personnel were very much interested and she did the same thing. Just more, and I believe the Supervisor of our Curriculum was there a lot. They were just more supportive, walk through the halls.

DW: How many days did the crowd appear outside of the school?

J. EDWARDS: Well, I don't recall. I'd say after the first week the heat kind of cooled off.

DW: So it was a several day kind of protest, you think?

T. EDWARDS: As I recall, I'd say about a week and then it got down to what I 21:00call a little more of a local, normal issues.

DW: How big of a crowd was it then?

J. EDWARDS: I don't think there was much of a crowd.

T. EDWARDS: I don't think there was a crowd at that point. Other than maybe parents bringing children, that you know treating it a little differently than they normally did.

J. EDWARDS: They talked out front you know. Instead of there being two cars, there'd be --

T. EDWARDS: Such as that. But not, I don't recall there being much going on after that first week. Things settled down. It kind of got to be routine.

DW: Did those black students; you said there was four of them?

J. EDWARDS: Hm-hmm.

DW: Did they remain in the, at Pride Elementary the whole school year?

J. EDWARDS: Yes. They sure did.

DW: And from then on, they pretty much stayed in an integrated setting?

J. EDWARDS: As I remember, yes. They were very quiet, very meek, very quiet.

DW: Well-behaved?

J. EDWARDS: Oh yes, well behaved. Very quiet.

DW: It sounds like there was no problem between the white and black students within the building as far as I can tell. Were there any problems?

J. EDWARDS: Not that I recall. Now they were timid and they were shy and they were afraid and they would stand off. At recess and play periods, they would kind of get up close to the building, close to the door. You could tell they had as much fear as a, they were just children. They had been put there. Parents would drop them off and that was it. Or somebody had drop them off.

DW: Why do you think only four came?

J. EDWARDS: I have no idea.

DW: Hm-hmm.

J. EDWARDS: I have no idea.

DW: Uhm, let's see here. You mentioned the press earlier a little bit. You know, 23:00how can, do you recall this event enough to declare, you know how did the press cover this event? How would you --

J. EDWARDS: Well, all of it came out of Evansville. That's where the TV came from. And then the Evansville papers. And then, of course, our local paper and all the others, I don't know. I don't recall them coming in and talking with me at all. I think they picked up at the door. I think they interviewed out front. I think they put their own comment in and I don't know what they got from central office. But I don't recall them coming in. We tried to go on with our regular day's work. And I think they may have respected maybe our day, not interrupt. But I don't recall having to make a comment in the media.

DW: What year did you graduate, Tom?

T. EDWARDS: From high school?

DW: Yeah, from high school.

T. EDWARDS: 1966.

DW: '66. How would you a, you know if you could kind of characterize the years after this? You know this is a fairly small system. How many were in your graduating class maybe?

T. EDWARDS: Uh --

DW: Just roughly, I mean --

T. EDWARDS: A hundred.

DW: A hundred, give or take?

T. EDWARDS: Yeah, or more.

DW: So, and that was the only, was that the only high school here in '66?

T. EDWARDS: It was the only a, a --

J. EDWARDS: No. Not in '66. South Hopkins.

T. EDWARDS: No. Yeah, three county high schools.

DW: There were three county high schools?

J. EDWARDS: No, not when you finished. Wasn't South Hopkins built the same time that North Hopkins and West Hopkins?

T. EDWARDS: Yeah.

J. EDWARDS: And you finished at the old school.

T. EDWARDS: Yeah.

DW: You graduated from Madisonville High School.

T. EDWARDS: I graduated from Madisonville High.

DW: Okay, and there were about a hundred students in your class. Okay. If you 25:00could kind of characterize for me the years after this? The very following year maybe, or just all the years together. You know, what were race relations like in school from a student's prospective?

T. EDWARDS: Well, a, it really was kind of a non-issue. We played, I think I'm correct in the fact that I played with the first black football player from Madisonville High School.

DW: Do you remember that person's name?

T. EDWARDS: Uh, Darryl Donohue. Deceased.

J. EDWARDS: I think I heard not too long ago on the radio that maybe it was Aunt Print that Sonny Collins was being taken into the, is it the State's Hall of Fame?

T. EDWARDS: I think so.

J. EDWARDS: Sonny Collins was a black that finished out of Madisonville just not too long after.

T. EDWARDS: Yeah, a little after that. The first --

J. EDWARDS: Then played at UK.

DW: I know that name. Yeah.

T. EDWARDS: He played at Ethan's Knob. All-American, I guess All-American at UK.

DW: Yeah, is his name up on the wall? I got season tickets, so I'd seen that name, but I didn't realize he was from here.

T. EDWARDS: Yeah.

J. EDWARDS: Hometown pride.

T. EDWARDS: Jackie White was the, if I'm not badly mistaken, was the, Jackie White and Perry Collins was the two first on the basketball team that played for Madisonville. In other words they weren't playing for Rosenwald. You know they had their own team but when they came to Madisonville High School then they had to merge with our sports programs and band programs and so forth. Like I say, it 27:00really was just kind of a non-issue. I mean by the time I got into high school for sure and even junior high at that time, it was routine. Nobody thought anything about it. Like I said, we were, we were friends. So I just, it was really not much of a real issue.

DW: Do you think blacks participated in sports and extracurriculars pretty openly? I mean quite a bit during your time? At Madisonville High School?

T. EDWARDS: That was just the beginning because you go back to this was what the elementary school was '58, right?

DW: Hm-hmm. Right.

T. EDWARDS: I graduated in '66 and I played, I guess the first time I played 28:00with a black on my sports team would have been in '63. So you are talking about five years there that I was not all aware of what was going on at the high school level. I mean how many blacks had entered the high school and so forth. But you would have, you would have thought that there might have been some that would have wanted to participate in sports prior to that or would have chosen to. So, you know, this is five years later that they're beginning. Like I said I played with the first.

DW: Okay.

T. EDWARDS: You know, five years after that, you had a lot. But I, I'm certain I played with the first --

DW: But that period?

T. EDWARDS: But that period, no they weren't very active.

DW: In the sixties, you would say probably not that active? Not that active in sports?

T. EDWARDS: Not in the middle sixties. I'm going to say '67, I mean '68, '69 is 29:00when they became more active. But we continued to have Rosenwald.

DW: Well, did Rosenwald play against the high school at all?

T. EDWARDS: No, no.

DW: Did they still play other black schools in the area?

T. EDWARDS: Yes. Blacks played blacks.

DW: All through the, Madisonville High School never played Rosenwald in anything as far as you can remember?

T. EDWARDS: No, I don't think so. No, unless, the only way that would have ever happened is if they went to the state tournament, say in the basketball. They didn't have football play-offs at that time. So no, if they had gone to the state tournament, and which I don't think, recall that that ever happened. It certainly could have in the early years. But Earlington, Earlington is a small town close to here had millions of high schoolers, black students.

DW: Millions?

T. EDWARDS: Hm-Hmm. And they'd go to state tournament. Madisonville wouldn't. You know athletics --

DW: The Earlington black school would go when the Madison white school didn't make the state tournament?

T. EDWARDS: Sure, and Rosenwald as well. Come tournament time. Get out of the way. You know, I say that. You know, Rosenwald may have played Madisonville in the tournament, but not --

DW: Not a scheduled game?

J. EDWARDS: I just couldn't remember any --

T. EDWARDS: No, I don't recall that we did. But they may have, like in a district tournament.

DW: I would ask both of you, maybe, you from just a citizen-student prospective, Tom, and you from an educator-administrator prospective, how did Madisonville and how have Hopkins County schools handled, how did they handle integration you feel?

J. EDWARDS: Well, I thought well. Because there was a test case I think, federal case, but I don't think, I think that was just a matter of being a test case. 31:00I'd say they handled it well. That it was accepted and moved a long, not without problems, and still I think there is problems, but I don't think any more than anywhere else. I'd say it's gone rather smoothly.

DW: Do you think the white community was prepared to attend school, a having white children attend school with blacks as early as '57, '58?

J. EDWARDS: I don't know whether they were ready or prepared or not, some, of course rebelled and, you know, were very critical but what can you say?

T. EDWARDS: Uh, that's kind of right, I mean, it was just, it was a fact, you know, and I think it, as a general rule we accepted it and, and went on. I, I 32:00was there during the period when the blacks had the choice and I think that, I think that made a lot of difference. When you eliminated what we considered to be black schools or integrated reversibly the black schools, I think that's when more problems came up with acceptance. For them it was a choice. So you had people that, that made that choice and it wasn't forced on them. You know, I mean we're setting here talking about what it was basically, what the courts required the whites to do. But in time, the blacks also lost something I think 33:00that some of them didn't want to lose. And that was to a certain degree, Rosenwald….

T. EDWARDS: Of the, of the true, maybe the everyday routine racial issues, when you are talking about students not getting along or students not being happy, it's when we eliminated both the black school systems so to speak and made it all one. I was there during the period when it was a blend. The black was not there unless he wanted to be there. I didn't and then at some point in time when Rosenwald and the other schools started shutting down there when they couldn't, 34:00there were people there from the black side of the community that didn't want to be, they didn't want to be integrated. They didn't want to be in the school system and I think that's when, when more of your daily routine problems began to occur.

DW: Why do you suppose they didn't want to be integrated at that late point? We're talking when Rosenwald shut down for example?

T. EDWARDS: Yeah, I think you can compare this somewhat with our county, a lot of counties had a lot of small county schools. You know we've made reference to Providence, to West Hopkins or to Dalton schools and so forth. People didn't want to give up their school. I don't know that it was so much an issue of black and white as much as it was, I mean you talk to people today and there are still a lot of them that think the small communities around here ought to have a high 35:00school or ought to have a school. And those people were just as proud of what Rosenwald and Branch Street Elementary accomplished as people were in Dalton or Hanson or somewhere else. They were proud of their school.

J. EDWARDS: It was a community center.

T. EDWARDS: Right and, you know, they accomplished, you know, a lot of things to be proud of in, not only academics, but in other things, sports and extracurricular. They didn't want to give that up and yet they're forced to go to one big high school. And when, when you start having problems then a lot of it, it kind of boils down to be a black/white issue, but it is not always black and white. I mean, you know you take the Hanson people and put them with people from the south end of the county and you're going to have some problems there.

DW: White on white?

T. EDWARDS: White on white or black on black. So issues came up, but, but it 36:00was, a lot of it was pointed to as racial problems and some of it was racial, but some of it was just change and resisting change. So when I was there, not much of a problem. Oh, I'm certainly, there's people. There were students there that they would look at them and call them names and be called back. But not a huge amount of that as compared to later whenever all blacks and all whites basically were put into schools together. I think there were more problems then.

DW: And when, do you know roughly when Rosenwald closed? Was it late --

T. EDWARDS: No, I do not.

DW: It was after you graduated?

T. EDWARDS: After I graduated.

DW: Probably late sixties?

T. EDWARDS: Uh --

J. EDWARDS: I don't recall either.

T. EDWARDS: I'm thinking that's right. Uh, you know.

J. EDWARDS: I was in my own little nest there taking care of my own business and 37:00I just, it was just a gradual thing.

T. EDWARDS: The principal of Rosenwald if I'm not mistaken went to North Hopkins whenever it was built and I'm going to say that would have been about '68 or '69.

DW: Hm-hmm.

T. EDWARDS: But I, I'm, that's just a guess.

DW: Sure.

T. EDWARDS: So --

DW: Well, I am pretty much done with my questions. Did you, either one of you want to say anything in closing here?

J. EDWARDS: I don't really have anything; I think to add to it.

T. EDWARDS: No, I don't. Like I said I, I do feel like it was a fairly smooth transition. As I stated earlier, I went off from here to the University of Mississippi, which was going through James Meredith situation there. And when you compare what went on in Hopkins County with what was going on in the state of Mississippi, it was really smooth.

DW: I bet. Let me ask you this too. This is probably a good question. You know how frequently has this been brought up since it happened? I mean when I came to your home to talk to you about this, you know is this the first time anybody has really brought this issue up with you all?

J. EDWARDS: It has been with me for many, many years. Uh-huh.

DW: This is the first time that it was brought up or it is brought up often?

J. EDWARDS: No, it is not brought up often.

DW: Okay.

J. EDWARDS: Like I said, I retired in '73 and I just really haven't been in on any discussions since then, to amount to anything. Like I said it was an unpleasant situation at the time. It was accepted, this was a part of it and we just got on with it. As I said, we just, we set our programs up. We continued 39:00just like we had always been. And I saw them as students and I, I just didn't have all that much problem.

DW: Had, it must have been a difficult situation for you being the, you know, like you and I both said before, you weren't really involved in the decision, but you were there to kind of handle the problem.

J. EDWARDS: That's right.

DW: I mean how did that make you feel? That very position you were in there?

J. EDWARDS: Well, it was a pretty heavy responsibility all right. And I felt like I could not do the job that I was put there to do which was just go through the day's program and exercise. We had a lot of interference. We had too much confusion. And couldn't really do what we were put there to do, but a --

T. EDWARDS: This coming from a lady who did not allow much interference.

J. EDWARDS: Mr. Probis, superintendent at the time, always said that you know, 40:00said you should operate a tight ship. So anyway, I was pretty strict. I always thought that I was fair, but I was firm. So we had a pretty quiet building considering everything. The halls were quiet.

DW: Hmm. Did you --

J. EDWARDS: Tried to keep things quiet. Excuse me.

DW: Go ahead.

J. EDWARDS: Tried to keep the confusion down in the restroom. A lot of time they go in behind closed doors, you know, they can cause a lot of confusion and my office wasn't too far from there. So I always kind of stood close by. But we made it.

DW: Do hear this subject brought up much at all since the time, Tom?

T. EDWARDS: Not a lot. You know, there's a, there's a few, very few, both black and white that will never let the issue die. And you know, there's times, I mean 41:00I don't know, four or five years ago there were some people at the class reunion talking about it more, but, probably so there's, there's, so it comes up some. But, like I said, there's some that's not willing to turn loose and I'm talking about whites and blacks.

DW: Sure.

T. EDWARDS: That are not willing to turn loose. And you know and see where we are today and accept it and go on. They want, they dwell somewhat on the confrontation of what took place, you know. I think that all of them. So, yeah, it's mentioned in the, it comes up pretty bad I think a lot of times.

J. EDWARDS: And there's been compliments.

T. EDWARDS: Oh, yeah.

J. EDWARDS: Different people, some of the older blacks have been very complimentary about the way that it was handled, how they were treated, how they 42:00appreciated the fact that things went as well as they did.

T. EDWARDS: For the most part, you know, that's the case.

J. EDWARDS: Hm-hmm.

T. EDWARDS: But, you know, as anywhere there is still some of it hanging on.

J. EDWARDS: Right.

T. EDWARDS: Those were the days of glory as far as they're concerned. You know, of I stood against it or I stood for it, you know. And --

DW: They're proud of either stance.

T. EDWARDS: They're proud of being involved in, in making that stand. You know some of them that made that stand need to let it go and let it take us where they were willing to go instead of living with the confrontation that's going on, you know.

DW: Okay, well, I thank you both. I really appreciate it.