Oral History Interview with Lon Carter Barton

DAVID WOLFORD: David Wolford. And I'm sitting here with Mr. Lon Carr Barton in Mayfield, KY. It is August 13, 2002. And we're going to talk a little bit about the schools in Mayfield. Mr. Barton taught in the Mayfield school district. But for the record would you just go ahead and tell us where you are from and when you were teaching in Mayfield?

LON BARTON: I am a native of Mayfield, having been born here in 1925. And I graduated from Mayfield High School in 1943 having spent my entire educational career to that point just up the street from where I live now. The elementary 1:00school was on one side of the campus. The middle school or as we called it then the junior high school was on the east side of the campus. And the beautiful stately old three story brick building in the center was Mayfield High School. All of these buildings stood on what had been at one time West Kentucky College. That had been started here in 1886 and property had been sold to the Mayfield City Board of Education in nineteen and eight. So the high school dates back to about 1908. And I was delighted to have the opportunity to serve in the history department for thirty years almost. I retired in 1988. And it was a very 2:00enjoyable, pleasant and I hope productive time for me.

DW: Mr. Barton, when you were in school in Mayfield as a student, where did the black children attend schools around here?

BARTON: At the time that I was in school here, the black children went to Dunbar, which was located just on the south edge of town, on the southwest edge of town. And the school was set up on the basis of the lower grades being on the first floor and the high school grades being on the second floor. And there is 3:00where most of the Mayfield black kids attended and all of them actually where they went to school if they stayed in school down through the high school years. Plus, the fact that the black kids that had gone through elementary schools, one room schools out in the county came into Mayfield and attended the junior high and high school level years at Dunbar. So as a matter of fact then Dunbar contained both the Mayfield black kids and the Graves County black kids who were in their teens or early teens and mid-teens. And it was considered a very, very 4:00excellent program. Curriculum there was very well arranged. And the teaching staff I am told did a very good job with their students.

DW: Did students outside of Graves County; did any black students from outside of the county actually travel to attend Dunbar?

BARTON: I wouldn't, I wouldn't know of any particular case along that line. There may have been some transfer students or some non-district students that attended Dunbar, but if there were I really didn't know anything about them.

DW: And how did the building you think compare to the other school buildings in Mayfield? White school buildings?

BARTON: I think at the time that I remember Dunbar, which was during the forties and fifties. The building would be almost as well fixed and as useable as any of the other schools. There were, at that time, three elementary schools for the white kids. There was Longfellow School which was on the campus of the high school as I mentioned while ago. And there was Washington School on the west end of town. And there was Lee School in the north end of town. And all these 6:00schools ran from grade one to, I believe, about grade six. And then the middle school years seven and eight were taken at the junior high school with the white kids and the black kids at Dunbar moved evidently from the lower floor up to the second floor was the high school classes met.

DW: When you were in college, maybe after you had finished your first degree, did you notice, did you ever have any integrated classes at Kentucky, University of Kentucky?

BARTON: Yes, University of Kentucky had integrated, I don't remember what year, 7:00but I believe if I'm not mistaken that there were a couple of black teachers who had come back to UK to take advanced work in one of my classes. I am sorry I don't recall the year, but I really don't off hand.

DW: Okay. Let's talk a little bit about, you were in Mayfield or coming back and forth to Mayfield when the Supreme Court ruled that separate schools would be unconstitutional. Do you recall what the reaction was in the city of Mayfield or maybe in the whole county to that decision?

BARTON: Well, there was, of course there was naturally a certain degree of surprise. A very similar case although it didn't deal with education, it dealt 8:00with, with other elements of everyday life like transportation and that sort of thing had been heard by the Supreme Court much, much, much earlier. A case originating from Louisiana that wound up with the court ruling that if the facilities were equal that they could be kept separate. I think that was basically a railroad case.

DW: This is the Plessy Decision you are speaking of?

BARTON: Right. The Supreme Court in the 1954 Decision in Topeka vs. Board of 9:00Education, of course, just reversed that idea and said that equal accommodations that were separate could not be justified under the constitutional provisions of equal rights and so on. However, I don't recall that there was any great community outcry about it. It was looked on, I guess, as a lot of Supreme Court decisions are, a little bit surprisingly, but I don't recall here that there was 10:00too much excitement about it. I do recall that the city school board chairmen in making an announcement at the commencement of the class of 1954 made some rather indirect reference to that decision. I believe if I remember this, I'm not sure that I do, Mark, so you correct me, I think that decision came pretty close to the end of the school year of 1954.

DW: May 17, 1954.

BARTON: Right. Just a few days after that decision came down and after the publicity was spread out about it, the class of 1956, I mean, excuse me, 1954 at 11:00Mayfield High School held its commencement. And as he nearly always did, the chairmen of our board of education made a few remarks congratulating the class and so on. And there was some reference made, but I don't recall at all what it was. It was not a very forceful message either for or against. But I do remember the fact that it was kind of brought in to the picture by the, by the school board chairman. And then of course, in another couple of years, the black school 12:00here, which was Dunbar, was not closed, but students there were given the opportunity, some of them, to come to Mayfield High School and the class of 1956, the beginning of 1956, the beginning of the school year in the fall of '56. And two of them were seniors and they graduated the following spring 1957. A girl named Mary Leigh Hayes and a boy named Van Langford. Both were transfers from Dunbar into Mayfield High School in the fall of '56. And later others came. In fact, I think there were maybe a half dozen or more who came in the fall of 13:00'56 in that first group of black kids that integrated the school, the high school. But they were scattered on down in the junior year and the sophomore year. I think we only had two that graduated in '57. And later of course, some years later, in the sixties, Dunbar was completely closed. Up until that time the black kids had been given kind of an option of whether they wanted to go to the white school, Mayfield High School, and take their work there, or whether they wanted to remain at Dunbar. And a good many did both. But Dunbar was 14:00finally shut down in the early sixties. I think about 1963 or 1964, along in that general time frame. I don't recall the exact year off hand.

DW: Do you think that the black community in Mayfield before the Supreme Court ruled, do you think that the black community desired to attend an integrated school or desired to attend a school with whites?

BARTON: I don't have any, I don't have any real way to evaluate that, Mark. I'm quite sure that there were some that were very much in favor of eliminating any kind of legally enforced segregation. And I don't think I have mentioned that all of this came as a result of the passage in the state legislature back early, 15:00quite early in the century of what was called the Day Law. And the Day Law simply said that white students and black students could not be educated in the same building or in the same classroom. And I, I don't know that, that any black people here, any community leaders of the black race had a, any great feeling of a satisfaction or gratification when the decision was announced in 1954 and on the other hand I don't know of any that were displeased about it or were unhappy 16:00with it. I really suppose it depended on pretty much the individual rather than as a race looking at it as a personal idea whether they felt like it would be beneficial or whether they felt that it would be less than beneficial. I guess there were people on both sides of that question among the blacks as well as among the whites.

DW: The high school integrated in the fall of '56 we had said. Did the, you know, why did the Board of Education decide to integrate that high school at that point. It's fairly early and were there any special steps taken --

BARTON: I really, I really don't know, Mark. That's a good question. But this was decided by the, by the city school board. And if there was any recorded 17:00reasoning behind their decision, I really don't know what it was. I have never found any reference to anything except the position that it was now the law of the land and that I suppose they felt like maybe the sooner they at least gave the option the better. As I said Dunbar did not close simply because Mayfield was integrated. Dunbar stayed open for some years. And had a fairly good attendance from the black kids. And I'm quite sure that the board felt like it 18:00was in the best interest of the community to get started at least and do it gradually rather than wait until some further injunction or some further court ruling would require them to do it some different way. It seems that the gradual idea was accepted pretty well. Starting out with a few black kids and still offering them the opportunity to go to the black school. And then coming around to closing the black school at a later date and moving all of the students to Mayfield High School which it has been ever since 1963 or four. They have all 19:00come to --

DW: When you were teaching at Mayfield High School when this happened. What was that like when the black students came to Mayfield High School?

BARTON: I don't recall that there was any special or any specific change of any kind. You might get a completely different viewpoint by talking to one of the white students of that day or one of the black students of that day, but as a teacher I didn't really, my main job was to try to teach American history to the black kids and the white kids and all that rather than to be too concerned with the reactions and repercussions and all. We did not have any out right violence 20:00that I know of. I have heard that in fairly recent years that I have heard there was violence among students. But if there was they didn't, it didn't take place in room 36 on the third floor.

DW: Well, what did take place in Room 36? You said you had, you taught both of the black seniors that year --

BARTON: I had both of the black students. And the girl was very capable and the boy was equally capable. I recall that the boy was very quiet in class, which I appreciated in many ways. Teachers appreciate students listening rather than talking, but at the same time this boy was never one to speak up and give any 21:00information unless he was called on. Then if he were called on he did an excellent job. But I know I talked to him a few times about the fact that he could volunteer answers as well as anybody else could and probably would do as well as anybody else would. But he apparently just didn't see the point in doing too much volunteering of class discussion. But he was still a very good student. And the girl was a very good student as I recall both of them, they were, they were very efficient, very good.

DW: Do you remember any encounters, even they may have been totally positive 22:00between the black students and the white students in those first few years of integration?

BARTON: Pardon me, Mark--

DW: David. David.

BARTON: Would you repeat that?

DW: Do you recall any particular encounters that may have been positive or negative between the black and white students in the first few years of integration at Mayfield High?

BARTON: The most violent situation, I think developed, Sturgis, KY and Clay KY, which is not far from Sturgis. If I remember correctly, the governor who was at that time Happy Chandler, I think, had to mobilize state National Guard troops and send them into both Sturgis and Clay. I recall just reading about it and 23:00hearing about it. I didn't want to make a trip to take an eyewitness observation of what was happening. But if I remember correctly those were two places in western Kentucky at least that troops had to be brought in to maintain order and to maintain peace and so on. I don't a, I don't recall whether this kind of situation developed outside of western Kentucky or not really.

DW: Well, in your classes and I'm not just talking about 1956-57, let's talk about, you know the following year or maybe even years after, how did blacks and whites relate to each other?

BARTON: Well I can only, I can only say for Mayfield that and Graves County that 24:00I think whites and blacks have had very good relationship. I'm sure there are individuals of both races that are not as satisfied as they might be if things were different, but I think over the long haul we have made the matter of getting along together very, very a, effective. As I say I don't know that this would speak for the majority of the black people here or the majority of the white people her. But I've seen no particular problems that have arisen that 25:00would jeopardize or endanger the relationship that existed for a long time. Undoubtedly there have been unfortunate incidents on both sides of the coin. That's true I guess anywhere in the United States. I don't know any community in the entire country that's been without some kinds of unfortunate, unpleasant events. But on the whole I think that people here have done very well. I think the black people here for the most part have had acceptable jobs, good jobs. And 26:00I think that they have been given all of the opportunities in the schools that you could expect them to have, be given. We've had some very outstanding black athletes that go through our schools here. And some of them have gone on and done well in college.

DW: How soon after integration did blacks play sports at Mayfield High School?

BARTON: I beg your pardon?

DW: How soon after the blacks began attending Mayfield --

BARTON: Seems to me that in the second year or maybe the first year that we integrated we gained a couple of very good basketball players, but they were 27:00not, they didn't enter as seniors. I think they entered as maybe sophomores or juniors, I don't really know which. But Mayfield High School has had some really excellent athletes in football and basketball in particular over the years. I know I used to be the member of a sandlot baseball team here called the South Seventh Street Sluggers and that was a, either sarcasm or misplaced modifier or something, but we were by no means sluggers and not all of us lived on South Seventh Street by any means. One of the members of our team that we recruited as 28:00a matter of fact lived in the black section of town. His name was Mickey Stublefield. And Mickey played nearly every position. Whichever one we needed him to be taken care of that day. And I might say Mickey was probably the only one of the sluggers that really lived up to that name. And I might say that his training in that athletic area of sandlot baseball here in Mayfield helped him to make the professional league later. And he went on to play in the Negro Major leagues for Kansas City. And I have often thought about the fact that had it not been for the good nature of the South Seventh Street Sluggers to recruit and to 29:00maintain to keep Mickey our record would have been even worse if that was possible than it was and no telling what his record might have been. So I'm, I'm speaking from personal experience here in saying that the addition of a black athlete to a team can sometimes bring some very profitable results.

DW: Now a, since you have taught at Mayfield High School for so long, I know you have attended may a reunion.

BARTON: Many, many reunions, I love reunions.

DW: Well, what a, what has been you experience there when you consider black and white relations in Mayfield or when you consider a --

BARTON: Well, for some reason I don't have any idea, I'm not a psychologist, certainly not a sociologist, so I'd be hard pressed to give a reason for this, 30:00but our black graduates don't turn out as a rule for the annual Alumna reunions. I think a few come to the class reunions. But we have a, what we call a Mayfield High School Alumni reunion every year in July. And the people that attended high school in the 1920s come to that one. Most of the people, I'd say are older. There are not very many if any students who graduated in the last ten years that make those reunions. So it might not mean a great deal one way or another, but I 31:00do think that the black students that a, even the ones that graduated --

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A

START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B

BARTON: The, the attendance at the alumni reunion that we have every summer and have had for seventeen years now, fails to attract the black students, even those that are of the age that would fit in, the ones who graduated in the 1960s or the late fifties or the sixties or the seventies. I don't believe not very many of them attend the reunions. The younger ones I don't expect to see. I 32:00don't expect to see the younger white ones either, the ones that graduated in the last eight or ten years apparently think of the reunions as strictly for the old folks. But a, I think that all graduates of Mayfield High School should make an effort if they can to come to the reunion once a year regardless of their age or their race or whatever. And maybe someday that will happen, but as of now I don't see it.

DW: Well, is there anything, you would like to close with here?

BARTON: Well, nothing, except I am pleased that you came down and I think that anyone that would drive all the way from Cincinnati to Mayfield to do the research on paper for the historical society which you're doing deserves a lot 33:00of credit. I certainly have enjoyed talking with you and getting to know you. And I trust that when you go back to your classroom of American History at Cincinnati or in the school where you teach, all of this trip this weekend or this week rather will be of help to you.

DW: I think it will. I think it will.

BARTON: Thank you.

DW: Thanks a lot, Mr. Barton.

BARTON: Yes, sir.