Oral History Interview with Alla Shamkhalova

BARBARA DRUMMOND: ...with Alla Shamkhalova. And, who is Armenian. From Baku, Azerbaijan. And today is September 17th, 1998. And this is the Immigrants of Bowling Green Oral History Project. Tell me a little bit about Baku, where you're from.

ALLA SHAMKHALOVA: Oh, okay. Baku is the capital of Azerbaijan. And Azerbaijan is one of 15 republics of the former USSR. It is a big city, with a million, maybe three or four million people living in Baku. It is the oil industry city. And the climate is like in Bowling Green it's very hot, very hot in summertime. And 1:00snowing maybe two or three days in winter. So actually very, very hot climate. And uh, a lot of fruits and vegetable growing in Azerbaijan.

DRUMMOND: Did um, you live in a neighborhood there in the city, or?

SHAMKHALOVA: hh, yes. Actually I lived in the district where Armenian people used to live. Uh, yes. And uh, I, I lived in a--it's not like apartment. But we had a we had twenty families or, and we were very, very good friends. And in every family, every family at least has three children. So if you multiply, actually the average size is five people in a family, so I get used to living 2:00with 100, 120 people who became real close friends, and we celebrate always, always together. Birthday parties and wedding parties, and, and everything together.

DRUMMOND: Did um, what were the most important holidays?

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh, the most important holidays in Russia are the 5th of May.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Maybe you knew, know this holiday. And the March of 8th. This is the international Woman's Day.

DRUMMOND: Oh, okay.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yes. And then of course New Year.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: But we celebrated on 31st of December. This is the most lovely holiday (laughs) among the Russians. And um, so we celebrated 23rd of February as the Soviet Army Day. That was another, another holiday.

DRUMMOND: What, what was, what did you do on that day?

SHAMKHALOVA: On Soviet Army Day? Everybody stays home. We have parties so we 3:00danced and we had music. And we have, you know, good food.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And we were talking and enjoy our holiday. Usually when we have holidays we don't work. And it's paid holidays. So in Russia we had a lot of other holidays. Uh, like we had a day of newspaper, the radio. A day of TV.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And all, all these things. But we keep on working.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: But on the holidays which are (indeterminable) with you before, uh we didn't, we didn't work. It was, uh yeah, paid holiday. That's why we enjoyed them so much.

DRUMMOND: Right (laughs).

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Do you still celebrate something like um, February 23rd?

SHAMKHALOVA: No, no, no, not--no. You know, uh, first when we moved here, maybe 4:00a year or two, we celebrate all Russian holidays.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, then--I don't know why--we now celebrate American uh, holidays. Sometimes we forget about Russian...Yeah and uh, one day I remember my, my brother called on March 8th, and we completely forget that it was a Woman's Day.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, so he had to remind us (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Oh.

SHAMKHALOVA: He said "Oh, congratulations! And I wish you health and happiness." And I said,"(indeterminable), what was happened?" (laughs). And, "Oh, you forget already?" "Oh, yeah, yeah, I forget." "Oh, you are, you are Americans now, of course you, you forget... (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Oh (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: "...our Russian holidays." But uh, actually we celebrate both of them. The Russian and American holidays.

DRUMMOND: Um, what did year did you come to Bowling Green?

SHAMKHALOVA: When we come?

DRUMMOND: Um, what year?

SHAMKHALOVA: OH, I came on May 22nd, 1992. In '92.

DRUMMOND: How did you arrange to come to the United States?

(00:05:02)

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh, there was a war between Armenia and Azerbaijan. And we--actually my family, as thousands of other Armenians, had to escape to Armenia. Because we were persecuted. And actually we lost everything. All our property and money. And there we had three houses. Everything, everything. And we just escaped to Armenia. But the day when we came, it was on the eve of earthquake in Armenian. Yes and it was another disaster for our motherland. And uh, so meaningfulness providers and shelter, no work. Actually I worked there but I had a temporary job. And uh, and there was the politics. At that, at that time we Armenians moved back to Azerbaijan. But it meant that, you know, we 6:00couldn't do that. We couldn't do that. And then we heard that the American government had a quarter for Armenian people. And so we went to like, an embassy in Russia, in Moscow. And we just filled out applications and we were waiting for interview. So we applied in 1989, and uh, in 1990 uh, yes, I got an invitation for an interview in Moscow. So we went there, all our family. It was winter day. I had a telegram from my brother that I should be urgently in Moscow because of this interview. And it was very, very difficult to get a ticket. Airplane ticket. Because there was no, no energy and Armenia was in economic, we 7:00say "blockade." You know, it was cut all over the Russia. It was very, very difficult to get to Moscow. And it was a very, very cold winter. So eventually we got ticket for trade, and in two days and a half, we were in Moscow. And then we went to embassy and we had an interview. Oh, we were lucky to get a permission to come to America because we had a very good evidence--my mother was severely beaten. And um, yeah she suffered very much, and she was hospitalized. All of these kinds of things. And there was an article in an Armenian newspaper about my mom and about our family. Because we were the first Armenian, you know, 8:00who who were beaten, and all property was taken. But we were the first. And after that, you know, thousands of thousands of Armenians had the same fate. And maybe because of that there was an article about my mom. So, and we have a man here in the embassy who read the article, that article. And so they gave us a permission to control in America. And it took maybe one more year, or year and half, uh, you know to fill out all papers and to get ready to come to America. So eventually May 22nd, 1992 we arrived in America.

DRUMMOND: Who all came?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, my mom, dad, and my sister and I. My brother stayed in Moscow with his family. He stayed in Moscow and he's still living over there. But every summer he came with his family visit us, to visit us.

DRUMMOND: Um, how about the trip over?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh...(laughs). It was the most difficult, the most difficult trip because it almost takes 12 hours. Uh yes, 12 hours. And though, you know, they will show you a, some movie and you have a lot of newspapers and magazines. And all the time they propose you something to drink or something to eat, you know. But still it takes, as I said 12 hours. It was--and especially, you know, whenever here is the daytime, in, in Russia it's nighttime. And uh, because over there you didn't sleep whole night. And you were, like, you're back in time.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Back in time. And uh, when we came first here, we couldn't sleep at 10:00nighttime beaus it was daytime in Russia. So we, we need some time to adjust to time.

(00:10:10)

DRUMMOND: Did you fly into Nashville, or?

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh yes, yes. We flied from Moscow to Frankfort, which is in Germany. Not our Frankfort (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Oh, okay (laughs).

SHAMKHALOVA: Yes. To Germany, and then we changed airplane. And from Frankfurt to Nashville. And uh, people from Refugee Center. Uh, Marty Deputy, she's the director of the Refugee Center at Bowling Green. She met us in the airport. And uh, three other Russian-Armenian people. So, when I came first I thought that hardly I will find any Russians in Bowling Green. And all of a sudden in the airport I heard the Russian speech.

DRUMMOND: Oh.

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) And it was a some kind of relief! (laughs) Yeah, yeah. You 11:00know, and so after that I became (indeterminable) there were almost 20 Russian families in Bowling Green, before our arrival. So, that's how it was.

DRUMMOND: Um, you talked about Marty Deputy helping you out in the Refugee Center. Um, how about other people? Did they, was there like a group, or? Um..

SHAMKHALOVA: Mmm.

DRUMMOND: Did they get together for a group or a welcoming?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, yeah. There were three other Armenian people who came to welcome us along with Marty Deputy.

DRUMMOND: Oh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, the first three months we leased in a house, in the basement. Uh, but uh, we had no transportation. Uh, but uh, all our people they uh, visited us, and uh, they give us a ride. And so we were able to go for shopping, and the store. A lot of people helped us.

DRUMMOND: Um, what were, what were you able to bring with you when you came?

SHAMKHALOVA: Um, almost nothing, almost nothing because we were allowed to bring 32 kilograms per person. I would like to bring all my books, and uh, all my dictionaries. And I had a good collection of books on art because art is my hobby always. Uh, and it was real (laughs), some kind of fight because, you know, whenever you package things, and uh, it's so difficult to select something. Because everything is connected. It's a memory. Then I should be uh, very, very, very, you know, selective in this way. And we brought some necessary things. And even blankets...(laughs) We didn't know what to bring, and we brought, you know, clothes and clothes. And uh, you know, utility like spoons 13:00and forks and plates. Because they were from Russia. And they have, you know, the ornaments. And uh, we would like to have some things which we were accustomed to. Because it helps you, you know.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: To adjust in new situation.

DRUMMOND: Right.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, not, not a lot of things. Not a lot.

DRUMMOND: So um, when you moved, you were living here with--was it an Armenian family that you said you were living with in the basement?

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh no, with Marty Deputy.

DRUMMOND: With Marty Deputy.

SHAMKHALOVA: Mhmm.

DRUMMOND: Okay. Um, tell me a little bit about what that was like in the basement.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, you know, first time when we came, you know, basement is the basement. And you don't have windows and uh, sometimes. And because of that difference in day and night...

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: .. and we didn't know, is it day or night?

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: Not our biological clocks said it was. Not (laughs), not--you know, we had no windows. And sometimes we were just sleeping, sleeping, and we'd get out and, oh gosh, it was three at the afternoon. Or it was four o'clock (laughs). Yeah, we were, I mean in a time mesh for a while. And uh, then, then eventually...But what we liked, you know, she had, and she has now, a beautiful garden and flowers. And uh, her house is like in a small forest. And uh, so my father, she allowed my father to have a garden.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: So he planted all kinds of vegetables and uh, flowers. And I--so we took care of the garden. And we walked around a lot. You know, waiting for some letter, some news from our motherland. And uh, I remember that I liked--she has 15:00huge and tall Asian trees (laughs). I mean, and I, they're so big and you feel so little, small uh, in comparison with these trees, and I liked to walk among these trees. And uh, in my mind I just tell the story of how I came here in America and how it is (indeterminable) in America. Uh and uh, this is the way, how I decided to write to my friends, to my other relatives, to describe the life in America. It was like, you know, walking around the trees and thinking...That was good time.

(00:15:47)

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: Really, mhmm.

DRUMMOND: Walked a lot.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Did you stay there for...

SHAMKHALOVA: Three months.

DRUMMOND: Three months? What was your first place like? Were you um, was it an apartment, a home?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, after Marty Deputy's residence, living there, we moved to 16:00Western Green apartments.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: It was on September 6, 1992. And from that time till now, at least we are living in the same apartment.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, and there were, you know, a lot of other Russian people living in the same apartment.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: So, it makes our life (laughs) easier. And they enjoy that because you know, when, anytime we met together and we're going to grocery together. And we feel some closeness.

DRUMMOND: Um, how about before you came to Bowling Green? When you were in Moscow and you--did you wonder about what it would be like here, or? What did you imagine Bowling Green would be like? Or Kentucky?

SHAMKHALOVA: You know, actually I didn't know. I uh, whenever you got a permission to come to America, you know, you don't know the place of your 17:00destination unless you have relatives. And they ask you "Is there any special place in America where you can go." And because we were the first among our relatives who came to America, we had no choice. It was, you know, all the same for us.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: To went to California, to be in the California or Kentucky or some other place. We said, "No." And so when we came to buy a ticket, they said "Okay, you have to buy a ticket to Nashville uh, and you will live in Bowling Green. It is in, in uh,"--she said--"K--W" I said "No, there is no state with K--W. How come?" She said "(indeterminable)." And she moved up and she looked at the U.S.A. map and she said "Oh sorry, it's K--Y." I said "Oh, it's Kentucky. Well, Bowling Green? Oh, I never heard about Bowling Green. But I know Kentucky, 18:00yes. It's famous for it's horses and chicken and basketball." (laughs) Yeah, and that's all what I knew. And I was uh, lucky because the, two or three days later there was a program on Moscow TV about Kentucky.

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) And I said, "Bowling Green, it's all green, it means that a lot of trees, a lot of--it should be very green town. Or a city. And so when we came first, you know, we were driving through the Scottsville Road and uh, I said "Now where is they city? Where is the city?" Because you know (laughs) on TV I will always see uh, like, Chicago, San Francisco. Big cities, you know. And uh, they said "This is Bowling Green. Yes, you are almost on the central street 19:00of Bowling Green." And first time it was a shock. You know, after these big cities, I lived in Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan. Uh, and then in Armenia. And then for a while in Moscow. You know, millions of millions of people. Huge towers. And all of a sudden you were in Bowling Green. A small, small town. And uh, this time, you know, there was desire to go to somewhere else, you know. To move to some other place. But the more I lived in Bowling Green, the more I loved the city. And even now I have a choice to move.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: I don't want. I do not--I, I like Bowling Green very, very much. And I like people here. Uh, they are smiling, and they are very uh, not--I mean, you know here, it's like you know everybody, and everybody know, knows you. And even when we drive to Nashville or Louisville, I will be back.

(00:20:05)

DRUMMOND: Right.

SHAMKHALOVA: Or Bowling Green. I won't be back to my home. And uh, I graduated 20:00from uh, Western Kentucky University in May 1998. And yeah, you know, it's so difficult to find a job by your speciality. You have to send your resume all over the America.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: But I don't want. I sent resumes in Bowling Green (laughs).

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) And I want, I want to stay here, definitely. And uh, maybe because I enjoy my job. I like Western Kentucky University so much. I enjoy teaching...

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: ...the Russian language, yes. I even like the smell of this building.

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, I always, I always dream to stay in that, in this building.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Because when I had a music appreciation class and uh, art appreciation uh, an art class. Yeah, maybe these classes, I like it so much, I enjoy these classes.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: And I wanted to stay in the Ivan Wilson building. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Ivan Wilson is the fine, fine arts...

SHAMKHALOVA: Fine arts, yeah. And uh, so I was so happy to find a job here. And I don't want to move to other place. No. I like Bowling Green.

DRUMMOND: What did you um, what did you graduate in? What was your degree in?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, Bachelor's degree in public health education.

DRUMMOND: So you're trying to find a public health job, as well as teaching?

SHAMKHALOVA: Yes, yeah. I tried uh, but it's so difficult to find in Bowling Green.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, today I have a very good news. Because from Monday, I will start working at the hospital in Bowling Green. As a medical assistant.

DRUMMOND: Oh right, the, okay.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, as a medical assistant. And I am--thank you very much. I'm really happy.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: But I have to stay here. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: And I find, you know, work in health-related area. And after that maybe I will be more lucky and find a job by my speciality.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: But still, still it is in the, in health field. That's why I'm really happy.

DRUMMOND: What did you do um before, when you were in Europe? What was your job?

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh, I was a scientific translator.

DRUMMOND: Okay.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, and I worked from 1970 till 1989. Nineteen years.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: I worked uh, at the Institute of Physics. Uh, then that institute was expanded, and we had another Institute of Applied Physics. So, I just moved from Instituted of Physics to Institute of Applied Physics.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And I was a scientific translator. Then, because of the war, I 23:00moved to Armenia. And again I was lucky to find a job by the same speciality.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: I was worked again at the Institute of Physics, now of uh, Armenian Republic. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: So, and all my life I was translating uh, scientific articles, books on physics. On semiconductor devices, nuclear weapon program, all kind of these things.

DRUMMOND: And when you first got to Bowling Green, did you know English when you first got here?

SHAMKHALOVA: Yes, yes because um, actually I graduated from the Institute of Foreign Languages. In Baku. And I was a teacher of the English language in uh, high school. Yes. But because I worked as the Institute of Applied Physics, and that was a secret institute--actually, I could not speak English.

DRUMMOND: Okay. (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: I mean, I can translate it, you know. I knew English in the written form very well. But uh, I wasn't allowed to speak with the foreigners. So when I 24:00came to Bowling Green, arrived in Bowling Green, it's like, you know, start talking only from that moment.

DRUMMOND: Ah.

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs)

DRUMMOND: It was hard?

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, it was very hard. It was very hard, especially that. And uh, in Baku, in Russia you studied in the London dialect.

DRUMMOND: Mmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: You know, and you came in America and it's quite different language. And, but first it was very difficult. And the people here speak so fast. And you know, another dialect. So but, within in a week or two, we became accustomed to that. And I could understand almost 90% of what was people, of what people were speaking. But before that it was like, you know, "Gosh I know 25:00this language but I couldn't understand these people." (laughs) I mean, I understand maybe only two or three words (laughs)

(00:25:08)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: But (indeterminable). Yeah, but then I watched TV and I discovered oh, I can understand more and more. And then in two weeks I was okay.

DRUMMOND: Which shows did you watch on TV?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, actually they uh, they didn't have uh, cable TV.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: I mean, in basement. So we watched local channels. And we uh, we watched all kind of uh, soap opera--how do you call them? (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Yeah. Soap operas.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yes. (laughs) Like General Hospital.

DRUMMOND: (laughs) Yes.

SHAMKHALOVA: You know.

DRUMMOND: (laughs) Yes.

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) Yeah.

DRUMMOND: It's ABC.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah. And uh, we watched, you know, Bowling Green uh, weather channel and uh, news channel. That's it.

DRUMMOND: Did um, how about the rest of your family? Did they speak English at all?

SHAMKHALOVA: No, they didn't speak at all. No. My sister, she studied the French language, and my mom and dad they didn't speak English. But my mom, she attend English classes at the Refugee Center.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: So, and then she just quit because it was very difficult. When you're over 65--60, 65--it's very difficult to study the language, the foreign language. (indeterminable) she remember something. She can explain that "I'm not at home," or can say "Where I am."

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: And we, when they went to Russia in 1995 uh, she was able to explain that she needs to change her airplane and that she needs help. And she told everything in English, so they survived. (laughs) It was difficult for, it 27:00was a difficult job uh, trip for them.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, father, my father says "Oh, she was good. If not (for) your mom, we would the lost (laugh) in the airport." She knows a little bit English.

DRUMMOND: Do they, they came back? Or do they live in Russia?

SHAMKHALOVA: No, they live here.

DRUMMOND: They live here.

SHAMKHALOVA: We live together.

DRUMMOND: Okay.

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) We live together, yes.

DRUMMOND: Um, when you first got here what was your first job that you did?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, I was a glass cutter and I worked at the Eagle Industries.

DRUMMOND: Ah.

SHAMKHALOVA: Eagle Industries, yes. You know, we made furniture. It was very difficult for me. Because, you know, if you work almost 20 years as a scientific worker, and if you work with papers only, you know, and all of a sudden you are in another country, and you have to stop, to start again from zero...

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: You know. And first I like it very much because I did something 28:00different. And I can create something with my hands. Uh, and uh, after seven month of working there I realized that it's not interesting for me, you know.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yes of course, I know how to do furniture, how to polish it and uh, you know, some secrets of uh, furniture production. And, but, I mean secrets uh, how to do that. But eventually I wanted to use my brain and I wanted, you know, somehow--I am very grateful to America because we were in bad condition. And this is the country which accepted us. And I wanted to give my best to this country, you know.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, the furniture factory, I think that everybody can work. And I want to use my brain, also my experience also, and to give as much as possible 29:00to this country. And so I decided to go and to study. To study again. And that was my third university. Western Kentucky University is my third university. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: So all my life I was just studying. Because I graduated from two universities in Russia.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, so I had to work. And after Eagle Industries I worked at the (indeterminable), in the restaurant, where I worked on Saturdays and Sundays. And the rest of the time I was a full-time student.

DRUMMOND: That's a lot.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah. Yeah, it was difficult because I wasn't young at that time.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: And the second language. Even if you study the language, you know, you should live that country in order, you know, to speak the language.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: In that language. So, and it was a really difficult for me. But 30:00that was my goal. And uh, I am lucky and I'm happy that I accomplished my goal.

(00:30:10)

DRUMMOND: How did you get the job here at the university?

SHAMKHALOVA: At the university? Um, I heard, I heard that they need somebody. Because Margarita uh, she was teaching the Russian language maybe for twenty years.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, maybe I'm not accurate, but I know that she, she was teaching many, many years uh, the Russian language. And now she start teaching the French language. And so I decided that uh, I can apply my knowledge. A little knowledge of the English language and good knowledge of the Russian language. And so I uh, just put my resume, and I made an appointment with Dr. 31:00Baldwin, and I had an interview with him and I got the job. It's part-time job, but I, I really....And I'm happy. Still happy.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: Very happy. That I am working here.

DRUMMOND: How about um, driving when you got here. Were you driving in Baku, or?

SHAMKHALOVA: No. No.

DRUMMOND: No. Okay.

SHAMKHALOVA: So many things I have to start in America.

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: So, so many things. And I, you now, sometimes I think, "Really, this is the land of opportunity?" Because I didn't know that I can make uh, I can make a furniture.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: Or I can do work in a restaurant. And know, you know, how the restaurant works. And then I have to learn how to drive the car. And here, at the university I have to start a computer.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And visual aids. Many, many things you have to study in America. And I am grateful because your life becomes so interesting. The challenge, every 32:00time to learn something. (laughs). And, you know, "Oh yes! I'm capable of doing that and that and that." It's just great.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm. It's hard sometimes. (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) Yes, hard but it's great. Whenever you do that it's good.

DRUMMOND: Okay, I'm going to take a minute to turn the tape over here.

SHAMKHALOVA: Okay. Oh, I was talking so...

DRUMMOND: Um, we were talking a little bit about some of the different things. How about shopping or cooking? Learning um, how to get your, the food txt you want to eat.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, it was a great experiment. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: Because actually everything looks the same. The same vegetables, the same fruits. They taste differently. Quite different.

DRUMMOND: Really?

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah. And it's difficult for us to find the food which we are accustomed to eat.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, and sometimes you will go and you will like some products, some food. And you will buy it. And come home. And you spend money. And you start 33:00eating it. And absolutely there's another flavor.

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, but now we know what to buy at least. You know, first you go through experiment. And you taste different food, and eventually you find the food which you like. And uh, we cook--we like the American food.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: Also very much. Because we went to the restaurants and uh, especially with--I went to Unitarian Church.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And after church we went to have a lunch in some place. Actually, every Sunday I had an opportunity to go to some place to eat.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And I like American food--actually it's not only American food. It's food all over, from all over the world.

DRUMMOND: Right.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah. But, but still we cook Armenian food and Russian food and 34:00American. It depends what we want to eat on that particular day.

DRUMMOND: Where do you get the um...

SHAMKHALOVA: Ingredients?

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: We have uh, we can find it in Walmart, in Kroger. And recently, we had an international store here in Bowling Green. And so we can buy Russian food in the Russian uh, grocery store. Or sometimes, you know, our friends, or we, would drive to Nashville. Uh, or to Louisville. They also have Russian grocery store.

DRUMMOND: Oh, okay.

SHAMKHALOVA: And we will buy food over there. But uh, that's occasionally. Because of some holiday or, you know, some special event.

DRUMMOND: Right.

SHAMKHALOVA: But in everyday we, we eat the same food.

DRUMMOND: Um, we talked a little bit about holidays. What about, like, for uh, um, for an American holiday. Like Easter. Or, did you celebrate Easter in...

(00:35:06)

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh yeah. We're also celebrate that in Russia and Armenia.

DRUMMOND: Okay. And um--I know what it is I'm thinking of, Thanksgiving.

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh, Thanksgiving. First we did not know anything about this holiday. And uh, and first year we did not celebrate it.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: We didn't know that. And then, you know, we had friends had friends who, who were working uh, with working with Americans, and they came home with a turkey.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) We became knowing that, "Oh, (indeterminable), but everybody eats turkey. Why not? We also will eat turkey." (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, especially, you know, my birthday is on November 29th.

DRUMMOND: Oh. (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, it's so close to November 27th.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: And so, we start eating turkey from November 27th and continue until November 29th. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah. And it was uh--we celebrate. And this time when we came with 36:00didn't know anything about Halloween.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And, you know, we were scared, you know. But we didn't know anything about that. And someone would knock the door.

DRUMMOND: Oh no.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, and we opened the door and there were, you know, children in masks and they were saying something. We couldn't understand what they were saying, you know. (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) And we said, "We have to give them something. They want something, but we don't know what they want." (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: What does it mean "trick or treat?" We don't know what that means. And they said, "(indeterminable) for us." I said, "I don't know!" (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: And then the neighbor next to our door, he just came up and said, "Alla, they want to give the children some candy. Some chocolate, uh. I say, "Oh, yeah, yeah? That's what they wanted? Okay, we have it." (laughs)

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, but next uh, holiday we knew--or next year we, we know 37:00already so we went and we buy a lot of uh, candies and cookies and everything. And so we were ready that time. We you know, answer the door and look though the window. (indeterminable) (laughs).

DRUMMOND: (laughs)

SHAMKHALOVA: So now, we celebrate now all Americans' holidays. All. And especially uh, Independence Day.

DRUMMOND: Yeah?

SHAMKHALOVA: Yes, we always celebrate. And this year we uh, my brother's family came from Moscow. And so we come to, we came here. We were on campus.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And uh, so we (indeterminable). It was a wonderful salute. And we celebrate all of the American holidays.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. Um, what did they think of the Independence Day? Or July 4th?

SHAMKHALOVA: We?

DRUMMOND: The brother.

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh, the brother. They, they said that, "You are lucky that you are living in America." (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: "And that you can celebrate that." (indeterminable) very important 38:00event in the history of America. And uh, maybe that whole day we like most of all the holidays.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. Um, how about something like May 1st? The Workers' Day? Yeah, I know they don't celebrate here but um...

SHAMKHALOVA: Labor Day?

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah, the only thing that actually we have are demonstrations and people just, you know, went to the streets. Not uh, you meet if you're working some place. And the people of your organization or agency they went together. 39:00And then they have a special place like uh, Red Square or square by Lenin. That kind, every town has a square with the name of Lenin. And that, you know, is a demonstration or what, I don't know. (laughs) You know, it was really actually (indeterminable) obliged to go there. I don't know, maybe we didn't understand uh, what does it mean. It was like, you know, everybody go, goes, and you also participate. And that's it. And you know that it's holiday. That you don't work.

DRUMMOND: Right.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, but when you grow up uh, you realize yes, yes, this is a Labor Day. And people all over the world celebrate that day. And uh, now this holiday has a (indeterminable). Um, and now we celebrate Labor Day in America on September. This year it was on September 7th.

DRUMMOND: Yes. But here we don't go get together like you said. We just go with our families and barbecue or something. Um, what would you miss the most about 40:00Bowling Green if you went back to Europe?

SHAMKHALOVA: What I will miss in Bowling Green?

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: People. And uh, it's a clean town. It's a nice, peaceful place to live. And uh, we feel so comfortable living in Bowling Green. It's safe. You feel like you're safe in this place. And uh, just, it became my hometown. And of course it, I will miss Bowling Green. And I missed it when I was in Russia in 1996. I went to visit my brother and I stayed there for a month and half. And 41:00during summer vacation, summer break at the university. Yes, and even I, I was tired of staying in Moscow.

(00:41:13)

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: For a while, you know. And I wanted to be back to quiet, nice, green Bowling Green.

DRUMMOND: How about um, Baku. You talked a little bit about some of the things that had gone on.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, actually after all these events and after war, I don't know. I never, never after that remember Baku. You know, it is like I never lived there. It's like, you know, it's like cut. it's like something was cut in your heart. And it doesn't exist for me anymore. Because of all these sacrifices and uh, 42:00deaths. And uh, whenever you, if you saw, if you were in a war you will never, you know, think about the place again with good memories. You don't want, you know, you don't want to remember anything. Not good and not bad. Because it's so, it was so bad that actually it crossed out everything good which was before. Because if I want to remember something good, after that, after that I will, I will remember something bad also. And that's why I just cut this period of my life as if, you know, I started here my life. Here in America.

DRUMMOND: Do you think that's easier to do than people who, who haven't done that?

SHAMKHALOVA: I think a lot of our people, I mean the older generation, the older generation they remember, they wanted sometimes to go back to Baku. Though it's, it's impossible to be there now because you will be killed at once. But uh, and the younger generation they were so happy. And I among them because we are new start again, you know. You start working, you start learning uh, you start a new life. But as for my dad and mom and the rest of them, it's very difficult. Because they are not busy like we are. So they get up in the morning, do something, you know, around the house and they're free. And uh, so the memories just, you know, flash and your mind. And uh, it's difficult for them to forget the city. But not for, for me. I try not, not remember.

DRUMMOND: Um, how about the, you were telling me about the story about your mother.

SHAMKHALOVA: Mhmm.

DRUMMOND: Do you want to tell that, or no?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, it was uh, actually, you know, we didn't know anything about the war. It was like one day you wake up and you hear that thousands of Armenian people were killed in Ganja. This is the second town in Azerbaijan. Only because they were Armenian and only only because they were Christian people. And then uh, just after demonstration they came to kill you. And they, you can see old people, and children and the women uh, who were thrown from balconies. Who were 45:00burned by fire. And uh, who were abducted. And just the truth. And you had to escape. And it's very difficult, especially I remember the day when my brother was fortunate to get three tickets so we can fly to Armenia. And that, there were five, almost half million of Armenian people living in Baku. And can you imagine that half a million have to rush because it's war. And uh, airplane, how many people can carry. So and, it was extremely difficult to get ticket to airplane to take your life. And early in the morning you have to take a taxi. And a taxi driver if they know that you were Armenian they will just, you know, will not take you to airplane, or can just kill you. So it was like, you know, 46:00you escaped this town as if we were thieves. Early in the morning, you know. And uh, we tried to take a taxi and, and so the taxi driver will not be an Azerbaijani, it should be the Russian or Armen--not Armenian, Russian or--I don't know, I speak how Azerbaijan language with Azerbaijan dialect. So they couldn't recognize that you are not an Azerbaijan. To survive. But my, my brother he uh, he, he was, talented. And he's talented with languages. And so he speak like he was an Azerbaijan. And that's why he took us to airport. Because he did not think that we were Christian, that we were Armenian. And so we just came to air-, uh airport and there were hundreds of people. And uh, you know, one airplane and hundreds sold tickets. And it was like a bus (laughs). You 47:00know. You can't--and people were not only sitting, but some people were standing or they were sitting um, between the rows...

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: ...in uh, airplane. So more people were able, were--how to say that--and uh, so this airplane took more people than it should be taken.

DRUMMOND: And it was um, whose airplane was it?

SHAMKHALOVA: It was Azerbaijan airplane. That was the last flight.

DRUMMOND: The last flight.

SHAMKHALOVA: Mhmm. The last flight. And then you can use only train, but it was very dangerous to take a train. Because they threw stones through the window, they stop the train, and they rush into the train, you know, and kill people in the train.

DRUMMOND: (indeterminable)

SHAMKHALOVA: Yeah. I was (indeterminable). But my mom and dad they still stayed in Baku. My brother, he taught me and my sister to walk to Armenia. But mom and dad they stayed in Baku because we had three houses and we wanted to sell them. Or to exchange them.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, but it became worse and worse. And uh, so they had just to (indeterminable) with everything, everything. And uh, actually they didn't even ask us. They just took our property, took our house, everything. Our money. Jewelry. Everything. We just uh, had something, some clothes on. Some people were, you know, just in slippers. And it was in winter time for other people. Like my, my aunt, she went in the uh, underground.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And wearing slippers, she got pneumonia and she was hospitalized in 49:00Armenia, and stay there for many, many, many months. And then uh, she just died. And uh, actually she got her papers ready to come to America but she couldn't survive after all this event. And many, many, many, many of us Armenian young people, they died. Because of heart attack, a lot of stress. And uh, it wasn't immediately after war, but it was in several years after war that we had all that, many of us died. And another, and another. And they young. They were young. But uh, it was a terrible uh, period of life. And many couldn't survive.

DRUMMOND: And um, so how did your parents make it to Armenia then?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, by that you know, my dad--actually Armenia is near uh, Baku, Azerbaijan.

(00:50:04)

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: But he took a train and he was, like you know, uh, traveling around. Changing trains. And eventually when he came to Armenia we could not recognize our father. (indeterminable) so much. And uh, it was like he was in the concentration camp. He liked terrible. And we, we, you know, for five days he just disappeared. We didn't know if he will eventually go to Armenia or not. Because of this war. And so we keep on calling to Baku, to some of our old friends. Or to relatives, or to my brother, to Moscow. Maybe father got to Moscow, somehow he was able to go to Moscow. And so in five days he came, and we opened the door and here is my father, but it was very difficult to recognize him. It was like another man uh, standing in front of you. And I said, "Dad, 51:00why? Why you look so terrible?" He said, "Daughter, I leave, and I came here for five days. It took me five days to come to here." And I said, "It's impossible, it took us only one night." "My train trip to Armenia took five days. I had to change trains, you know, and go forth and back, forth and back because uh, because of war." And he said, "I had nothing to eat. Because they took all my money. And he had only a cookie.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: Some cookies. And he eat these cookies for five days. And when he came he has a small piece of cookie left in his parcel. (laughs) And that's it. 52:00And I said, "Where is mom?" He said, "Okay, mom is still in uh, Baku, but I came to see if you are okay. And I will (indeterminable). I go for your mother...this time. I have to rest and go for your mother. She stay alone there." And then someday I came and they--they called me at home and said that I should go home and immediately. And then I came and my mom she turns her head to the wall so I couldn't see her face. I said, "Mom! Mom! You are here! And uh, turn your head. Why are you looking uh, why you are not looking at me?" And when she turned her face it just, you know, I start crying because her head was twice of the normal size because she was heavily beaten by maybe 10 or 15 young Azerbaijanis. People who were given all kinds of drugs so they can go kill, beat and kill people.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: They, they were normal people. I mean, they were high school 53:00students or students at the university. And they were just uh, saying "Go and kill Armenian people." They had no choice. And so they were given all kinds of drugs. We call that (indeterminable). It's like uh, marijuana and it's like uh, marijuana or (indeterminable). And they, they had all these drugs and now they're brave. They don't afraid of anybody and anything. They went and start killing people. And so 10 or 15 people were beating her and uh, she had diamond earring. And they wanted to take her earring. And uh, one was very easy to open and she give it to him. But another one, she could not open it. Because her hands were shaking, she was shaking. Her body. And he wanted to cover ear, her 54:00ear with knife to take the diamond jewelry. Earring. And she said, "Oh please, don't cut my ear. I will give it to you just wait a little. I will open it." And so they open and she was bleeding and they went, they got, they took everything. And they got, and my mother she was--oh--bleeding for several hours. Lying on the floor, and now they can't help her. At that time all Armenian people were left. And none Azerbaijan was helping her. And she could not even go to the hospital because they also were Azerbaijan people we can (indeterminable) her because she survived. So actually, she was healing by herself for two weeks, and she was waiting until my father came and took her back to Armenia with him. This time. So, and eventually we met everybody in Armenia. And we were living there. It was very difficult. Really very difficult for us to live there because you 55:00have to find a place and you have no money. You have no money and uh, you couldn't buy house. You couldn't rent an apartment. Nothing. Just some people, they were so kind, they allow us to live in the house. And we were living there and living and hoping that someday we would move to, we would move to America. And, so we were really lucky that we eventually got to America. We were allowed to come here.

(00:55:41)

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: And we start our life again.

DRUMMOND: Good.

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) Yeah.

DRUMMOND: The garden.

SHAMKHALOVA: (laughs) Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Very painful. Um...well...do you have--um...now that you live here do 56:00you have any Muslim friends? Like, do you deal with that here at all?

SHAMKHALOVA: No, no we have. We have Muslim people. Because, you know, before that we uh, we lived, we were in good relationship before that.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: And all of a sudden everything was changed.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: You know, and some Muslim people they helped us.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: You know, some friends they help us and uh, to find tickets, you know, to give us mon-, they give us money. But not everybody. Actually Muslim people who knew you, they will help you.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: But there rest who do not know you, they will kill you. And now here in Bowling Green we have a Muslim family.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

SHAMKHALOVA: And we're friends. And we have parties together.

DRUMMOND: And it's not an issue.

SHAMKHALOVA: No, no.

DRUMMOND: You would blame--what would you blame?

SHAMKHALOVA: Politics. I mean, people who want power, who want money. Because 57:00common people they don't want war. It's because of dirty politics. And uh, people suffer from war. But some other people, they gain mouny because they sold weapons and uh, you know, all those things about war.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. Well, um, in the future, other family members may listen to this tape. What do you want to tell them about what you wanted for them?

SHAMKHALOVA: For people who will come to America?

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, I say that uh, God Bless America.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

SHAMKHALOVA: And if you come, and this is the land of great opportunity. And if you come, if you have that possibility to come don't hesitate. You can start again. It's difficult uh, but eventually if you will work hard. And if you will 58:00study hard, eventually you will get what you deserve.

DRUMMOND: You think?

SHAMKHALOVA: Mhmm, yes, I think. So...

DRUMMOND: Um, do you have anything else that you'd like to add? Any more stories?

SHAMKHALOVA: Uh, actually I wanted to say that uh, whenever you will meet Armenian people uh, all over the world, they start from building their own church. Armenia church. And they will have their newspaper, and uh, the children will learn, starting their Armenian language. And Armenian people are very creative people and hard working people.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

SHAMKHALOVA: And that's so we will try to do our best for our, for America, for this country.

DRUMMOND: We're interrupting. We need to conclude the interview. I think we're interrupting a class.

SHAMKHALOVA: Oh yes, I just want to say, say thank you very much...

DRUMMOND: Oh, well thank you very much.

SHAMKHALOVA: ...for interviewing me.

DRUMMOND: I appreciate it.

SHAMKHALOVA: And if I can somehow, you know, to help other people on the experience of my life, I will be glad, you know, to say to everybody that uh, 59:00welcome to America.

DRUMMOND: This has been very um, very, very moving.