Oral History Interview with Gita Doshi

LUANN JOHNSON: Okay, this is LuAnn Johnson. And it's the first of July, 1999. And I'm interviewing um, Gita Doshi in her home, in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Thank you for letting me come into your home today. Um, can you begin by telling me about your home country?

GITA DOSHI: I was, I was originally born and raised in India. And I came to this country with my husband. As a new bride in 1969.

JOHNSON: 1969?

DOSHI: And I remember the specific date and uh, 'cause uh, uh...it was May the 19th, 1969. And at that time, we were getting ready to go to the moon. Apollo 11. That date is so significant in my mind. I came from Bombay, India. Big array 1:00of people. And I landed, and Neil Armstrong landed in the moon and I landed in a small community in eastern Kentucky called Whitesburg. Letcher County. Population is 1800. As a new bride, no idea what I was doing in the strange place. But I remember it was the, you know, July 20th 1969 when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon. And he said to the command center, "Eagle has landed." That picture, it's so clear...you know, after--it's probably what, 30 years? That I landed from a strange country to the, you know, small county in uh, Whitesburg, Kentucky.

JOHNSON: And how--what brought you to Whitesburg? From all the way from Bombay?

DOSHI: It's kind of a story. My husband, as soon as he graduated from medical school in Kolkata, India, he came for his uh, residency program in United States. And this 1960, I don't whether you remember, on (indeterminable), we had a lot of shortage of physicians. You know, American students didn't want to go into medicine. Didn't want to practice. I think we were short or nurses and staff, especially in the science. And engineering. That's why the United States started, you know, recruiting the foreign physicians. And my husband's, one of my husband's friend was going and he, he mentioned to my husband and he--my 3:00husband got (indeterminable), and started, you know he called up--first job as a residence he was in a Baptist hospital in Nashville. They gave him a plane ticket, they you know, treated him very well. And he started his first year of internal medicine residency in a Baptist hospital in Nashville. And he finished his four years--two years in Nashville, and he went to Memphis for his, for their residency. And he, after he finished his residency he went to Edinburgh in Scotland to do his post graduate study. And then he came back to India to get married. That time, when he was here he was a bachelor and a student visa. And as soon as we got married, he just realized that...the way of practicing medicine is so different in India. And uh, when he was leaving um, he finished 4:00his residency--let me go back. Finished his residency and he had four months to spend time before he was accepted to Edinburgh in Scotland. And one of his friends said, "Well what you going to do for four months?" And my husband said, "Well I sure need the money. I'm going to do the moon light." And one of his friends told, "There is a position left in a Letcher County in Whitesburg. They're looking for a temporary physicians." Because it's a small community and they needed...So he went to Whitesburg. Matter of fact Harlan, Kentucky is a daily (indeterminable) clinic. And he stayed and practiced medicines and help in the clinic for four months. And the way my husband's um--I'm not bragging about, but he's a wonderful physician and a great human being--and uh, one of the 5:00founders of the clinic, directory, liked my husband's work so much that he says, "Now (indeterminable) if you ever want to come back to the United States, please call me, I'll make you my partner in the clinic." So (indeterminable) realistic in his mind. And as soon as he came to India, he was looking for a bride and, it's a long story, but we got married and--

(00:05:23)

JOHNSON: Would you mind telling me the story? How did he go about meeting you?

DOSHI: Uh, people in this world, even my own children has asked me so many times, and they always say, whenever I tell my engagement story, their eyes are open, wide mouth. "How can you do that, mom?" Because I didn't fall in love before we got married. It was arranged marriage. And people have misconception about arranged marriage. What is arranged marriage? If you look at the history, and uh, you know French or Italian or the British history, they're used to be a match maker. You know, I've been, I did a lot of Barbara Cartland's uh, romantic 6:00novels, English books. And you look at that, people are looking for a same, you know, family trait. Same family value. And they try to match make it. And that's the way in India. It's really not a forced marriage where somebody's going to put you, but--Yes, I knew my husband's family. His mother uh, and I'm born in the same small community. So we knew his family. And he was a bachelor and I was my, doing my last year's internship in small hospital. And I was 26-years-old, and my father says, "Gita, this is the time to get married. And do you have any friends or boyfriend or any interest in your colleagues?" You know, my father was very open-minded. And I said, "No, daddy. I am not attached to anybody." And he said, "Well, then it's time to look for a groom." I said, "Sure." 7:00And...that's the same time he came to the United States--from United States, and looking for a bride. And, it's a kind of (indeterminable) custom in a small community. Like a country peddler, or a daily news. They put a little picture of the bride or groom. Who is looking for a, you know...mmm...bride or a groom. And my uncle in Bombay, India looked at the picture, and called my father in the small town he lived in. Asked that, you know, "This looks like a guy will be really, good-looking guy. And I know the family will be good for Gita." And he calls--my uncle called me and my father called me says, "Are you interested?" And I said, "Oh, okay I guess so." And here I am, you know. He came and um, talked to me like you and I talking. His mother came and, aunt and his father came. In my uncle's house. And to kind of make a long story short, I was working 8:00in the small hospital in OB GYN program. And I was the only residence then, to deliver a baby. And there was a one attending physicians. And we had the time, it was 3 o'clock for the tea time to meet the prospective bride and groom. And I was running late. I hate to catch a train from my hospital to the suburb of uh, Bombay. And I didn't have time to comb my hair and I was really in a disarray. And I, as soon as my aunt saw me entering the house, she said, "What in the world? You know, you're going to go like this to see the, talk to the groom, perspective." I said, "I'm sorry, I didn't have the time." Anyhow, I just carried the tray of, trays, you know, cookies and tea and...I just went and uh, you know, introduced myself. And we were just talking, casual talk. His mom was there, his father. Just you know. And then his parents and my uncle and aunt 9:00send us to the next room, drawing room, we call drawing room or living room. And then we sat down. And he was a very polite young gentleman that asked me very few questions. "What is your future plan? What are you doing right now?" And, you know, few basic kind. And we had a cup of tea. And that was the end of the story. I didn't pay much attention and I thought, "Well, that's fine." I, I liked him. He was very mild-mannered. Because in the '60s, people in India, including myself you know, we all young (indeterminable) in India had it...what do you call, idea. That United States, you know, lot of influence about hippies. And um, so I thought, you know, long hair and all those things. He really didn't watch tv. And I had a really misconception, mis-idea about the American style. 10:00And he was very clean-cut and a nice, polite young man. And I was pretty impressed. (00:10:07) I went back to my workforce, you know, it was six to seven weeks, and I never did hear from him. And my parents said, "Well, he may not have liked you. You may have done something." I said, "Mom, I have not done anything. I was not properly dressed because I was busy and I was tired. I didn't have enough sleep. Night after night I'm working." After seven weeks, on early morning (laughs) one of my head nurse calls me when I was in the delivery room. She said, "There is a young, there is a lady is on the phone. She wants to talk to you." And I said, "Just take a message, I cannot come out." She took a message. It was his aunt...calling. They wanted to come and see me again. And I called her about and I was not happy. I said, "Why you want to come?" She said, "Well just, we have a few questions to ask you." And I was a little...annoyed. And I said, "Okay sure, come on in." In afternoon they came. And his mother asked me--I still remember. "Do you believe in god? Uh, do you know how to cook? 11:00If my son wants to go to United States, what are your feelings about...?" And I had no clue. I--pretty much three questions I had--may have lied every question. I guess so. I believed in god, definitely. I says, "Yes, that was the right (indeterminable)." "Do you know how to cook?" I said, "Yes, I know." I was lying.

JOHNSON: (laughs)

DOSHI: And at the time there was a, there was another question that I remember. I had a, as a young teenager, I had a lot of acne on my face. And I had a little big scar. And, and then I, I had a, you know...glasses. And I didn't wear the glasses. And they suspected that I may have poor vision. So they asked me, "Do 12:00you have, do you wear the glasses?" I said, "No, I don't wear spectacles." So what we called glasses. There was a two out of four questions I lied--three...And it--and then my, his aunt asked me, "Do you like him?" I said, "I guess so, you know." Without even giving it deeper thoughts. The next day, they call my parents and um, they announced the engagement. For the...uh I think it was in May or April. May. 1967. We got married the 15th of July. 16th of July, 1967. We had a courtship for two months. 'Cause he didn't have anything to do. He was so free because he came from United States. And I was so busy, really closing my residency program. They knew that I'm getting married. And...but he 13:00will come in the hospital and wait on me. And whenever I had time, we'd go out together. And--but you know, at the time um, I didn't like his uh, what do you call it? I wanted to break up the engagement. I could have done that. People have misconceptions. There was no force on anybody's part. But it was a courtship that we started getting to know each other. And we started creating the feelings for each other. And that's a really hard conception in this country. When you are dating a young man or young woman, you want to do the best you could. You're really not going to show the true yourself. In any country. You know, you're going to get along really well. You do whatever each other...But once the true marriage starts, that's the time, you know, disagreements and...it starts. My, you know, I...really think so, either arranged marriage or love marriage, it's a kind of a give and take thing. 14:00Marriage is a partnership to me. It's really a partnership. That's my engagement story.

JOHNSON: That's, that's wonderful. So what, what--how did it um, the little, little lies that you told. Um, what happened when they found out?

DOSHI: They suspected that. It was a very common that, you know, most of the teenagers--and I'm sure in '60s, '70s, most of the teenagers wear the glasses. At that time, contact lenses was not common. We used to wear hard contact lenses. And I had a terrible allergy problem and I could not wear it. So I used to wear glasses all the time in my hospital work. But, when they came to see me, I just took it off, you know. And they, they knew that. And I had acne and I, you know, they wanted to see my face clearly because my mother-in-law forgot to wear the glasses. She left glasses at home and she couldn't see my face clearly. 15:00So they wanted to make sure that his son is getting a good bride, you know.

JOHNSON: (laughs)

(00:15:13)

DOSHI: And then my husband knew right away, you know. He said, I said, "So what? You wear the glasses, too you know." Yes, that's the story.

JOHNSON: That's interesting the things that they found important to, to ask you about.

DOSHI: Yes. You know, it's a funny thing that whole family comes together. It's a kind of a marriage in India, you're marrying bride--groom or a bride, you're marrying the whole family. Because family value is so important. 'Cause you're bringing a bride in your home, parents wants to make sure that bride has a good value about uh, respect and treating, you know, with the love and kindness to the elderly. Because the marriage in India is like you're marrying the whole family. This is the way, it's just a philosophy. And here, you marry the bride and the groom. Family is--but I feel like, you know, family value and family 16:00history is very important. Which family you are getting married. Because no matter whatever, you're going to have some kind of a genes or (indeterminable). It comes from your grandfather, great-grandfather. So in, in India, marrying the family and their value and their family background is very important. They look at it, you know, where the family's roots are. And their wealth and their health history. And uh, you know, I think it's very important. Like, genetic factors that--illness history, family history. And we don't do it. But I think we in this country, we do it indirectly, you know. We don't do directly specify, but (indeterminable). When my daughter is bringing the boy at home, we tell her, I'm 17:00going to be asking, you know, "Do you know his family?" And we all--you know, we want to do the best for our children.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

DOSHI: You know, in this country we don't do directly, but we do indirectly. The research that what kind of a family my daughter is getting married in.

JOHNSON: So, you said that you came from a common background. You had a common...

DOSHI: Yeah, common background. His family, his mother is a very strict Jain religion. It's a Buddhism and Jainism. It's a kind of a branch in Hindu philosophy, you know. And my family, my parents were kind of a mixture. We were very liberal in uh, our religious belief. Because I lived in a...community with a lot of Muslim families. Lot of Muslims when I, where I was born and raised. 18:00And I played with a different culture. Hindus, Muslims, Christians. So I, you know, and my father was not an atheist, but he believed in Hindu, Muslim religions. And my mother came from a strict Jain family. But then, you know, the mixture of my grandmother and my mother. And mixture has become a really a...not a strict religious belief, but believe in god and doing the prayers and...But his parents were very strict Jain. But still we have a, you know, we have a common values and background. Yeah.

JOHNSON: So, I'm somewhat familiar. But India is a huge, huge country...

DOSHI: Huge country.

JOHNSON: Or, or--yeah, country. It's huge. So, the area, the region that you were in, is that, that's not typical of all of India, having that kind of diversity?

DOSHI: No, that is--there probably say, I will say...more than 15 dialects. Different regions. Every--I'm coming from a, a western part of India called 19:00Gujarat. And uh, we speak, we speak a, Gujarati, of a dialect. Main dialect is Gujarati.

JOHNSON: Can you spell that?

DOSHI: Uh-huh. G-u...G-u-j-a...G-u-g-r-a-t-i. G as in George. And uh, you know, different dialects, different culture. If you go from a southwards, you will see a lot of, you know, within 400 miles you will see a different culture, different customs. People in the south, you can see a lot of dark complexions. I'm sure you have come across several. You know pretty good, pretty feature. But it's a dark skin, it's like African American. So many have a dark because it's a uh, sun's latitude with the, you know, it's so hot there. (00:20:03) And people are migrated--originally indian people is migrated from (indeterminable), you know, 20:00in probably 6-7,000 years ago. Migrated from (indeterminable). And then, it's just, you know, united with the probably middle eastern culture, Muslim culture. And uh, some of them has gone to the south. Southern India. Some of the Indians. And it's become a...lot of uh...what do you call? Cross-breeding has become a darker complexions. And the northern part of India, you see a lot of--western and northern part, a lot of fair skin. You can see the difference in them because I have a little hazel eye, and a little lighter complexion. Maybe it's a` Middle Eastern blood in that. You know, because coming from the (indeterminable) is, you know, the Middle East, you know eastern. Iran and Iraq and that. Yeah, different dialect, different even the food habits. Different, you know, you can taste the food from northern India. It's a different taste of food than southern India.

JOHNSON: It's very different.

DOSHI: Very different.

JOHNSON: Um, are the social--I've heard, I know somewhat about social caste systems in India. Is that...when you were growing up, too?

DOSHI: Yeah, in a way--yeah, in a way it's called caste. You know, there's a lot of misconception about caste. Uh, look at here also. You know, you want your children to, when your children growing up, you want them to play with the same background and culture background, you know. Like here in this country also, aren't we all indirectly a caste system? We, we you know, African American. Jewish community or white Americans. We try to stay, you know, in our own, own group in a way. And in India what happens that there was a four caste they call Brahmin. Those that called (indeterminable), they are the one do more of the religious ceremony, spiritual work. There was a Kshatriya, they are the warrior. They, they are the one fight for the country. And there was a merchant called 22:00uh, they were the business people. And the last one called the labor. You know, they do all the menial work. Menial work. This is the way become--that's the reason people say the caste. Caste is really what your great-great-grandparents (indeterminable), if I'm born in a business family, you know...I'm the--in that. And then people try to stay in the same. They want their sons or daughters maybe in the same caste. They don't want to go to the lower called laborer. There are the, there are the, in a Brahmin family they are more religious. They do the prayers and they do, all the you know, religious ceremony. They wanted to stay 23:00in their own caste in a way. Yes. But I look at it in a different way. People has a lot of misconception about Indian culture, Hindu philosophy. But aren't we all human beings trying to stay with our own level? Indirectly, you know. I want to stay in a pretty area. I don't want to go in a, you know, northern part of this town or something. Because I want to stay with my own family, people. Aren't we all, as a human being, we do you know, indirectly try to stay in our own caste. Do you agree with me?

JOHNSON: I see how that works out in a way.

DOSHI: Yeah, it was really in the long, long time ago in India. When there was, you know, Indian culture was coming up. They had divided in actually four groups. Merchant, laborer, warrior, and uh...spiritual leader. But that's the reason, really, the caste has formed. But then, you know, the more and more we get, has become a lot of, lot of misconceptions about the caste. But I look at 24:00it in that way.

JOHNSON: Now which caste was, was your family?

DOSHI: I was born in the business, you know. But my great-grandfather was a, was a--called in those days before the British came, India was ruled by emperor and king and, and my great-grandfather was the treasurer of a small kingdom. So I uh, up to this day when I go and visit my mother, she lives the same house that's been given, was given to my great-grandfather by the king. It is a huge house. Probably I would day 20, 21 rooms. That was given to him as a gift. Because he was the treasurer of a small kingdom. So I pretty much, we were caught in between the warrior and the business because he handled the treasury. And I have uh, you know, lot of different uh...my, my grandmother used to tell, 25:00they used to have a small--you know, king will come and you will have an open court. And my great-grandfather will collect the tax from the people. And the, that room is still in there they way it was done. You know, we have put the little swing in that room. But then my great-grandmother used to--my grandmother used to tell me all the story that my husband has sit in that as a small child, you know, with his father. And the people came for, at the end of the year to give the tax to the king.

(00:25:48)

JOHNSON: So um, you mentioned that you had um, higher education. Um, what level of education did you finish?

DOSHI: I, actually in India, I can practice family, you know, I'm a family physician in India. And I, as soon as I was finishing my last year of residency when I married and uh, I--tell you the truth, that was a lie to my, lie to my husband family. I really...I wanted to stay in India and uh, because I was in 26:00Bombay. And I had my own, all my friends were, you know, getting ready to open their own dispensary. We call dispensary or clinic. I wanted to stay in India and practice medicine. And uh, didn't have any clue that I will end up in United States, and being a housewife, and not work. But um...yes, I, I still keep my license in India. What happened that, as soon as I came here, I was almost 27-years-old. Wanted to start a family. And uh, my husband landed a job in a small community in Harlan, or Whitesburg, Kentucky. And uh, you know, if we go and I have--you know, if I want to get a license I have to do my, the residency here for four years. We had a choice. We didn't have money, so I have to stay with him. And I wanted to have a baby, and the doctor has asked me, you know, 27:00(indeterminable) says, "Well if you want to conceive, then you've got to stay with your husband. Otherwise, you can't." And I, I gave a lot of thoughts and decided not to take a license. And try to raise the family. Just few regrets. Uh...definitely I, if I had to do all over again, I would definitely take my license...and I'd practice medicine. But when you are young and have no clue, no guidance. And he was so busy in his own practice. And he's a wonderful man. He said, "Gita, why do you have to work?" You know, "Enjoy the life." And, but no I never did uh...you know...I worked as a physician's assistant in uh, Whitesburg 28:00for two or three years before my oldest daughter was born. And went back and worked for, for one year again. And as soon as my second daughter was born...I decided to stay home. I wanted to be a good mother and uh, raise my children...uh, by me rather than, than you know, babysitter.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

DOSHI: 'Cause uh, that was the sole purpose. I stopped working and then we came to Bowling Green in '74, you know. And never did uh...and then my son was born. But uh, I just uh, my children asked me--especially both my daughters. You know, when they were teenagers and they will get angry with me. And they will say, "Mom, what did you do all day today?" You know. And I was, so many times I wonder. now they understand that mom stayed home and gave us a good education. And...But that was a, there was a purpose. And, just a few regrets. Definitely. If I had to do all over again, I will probably call my, would have called my mother-in-law, my mother to stay with the children. And would have done it. But 29:00when you are young and have no clue what direction your life is going, you know. So I'm very supportive of my own daughters. They are both a physicians and--

JOHNSON: Mmm.

DOSHI: I tell both of them that, you know, when you start practicing medicine and if you need me once you start raising your family, I promise you I will be there. Because I don't want, never want them to discontinue practicing medicine. Because once you start doing it, it's very difficult to go back. And then, you know, I just never had desire to, you know, take my license. And it's been almost...almost 30, 30 years.

JOHNSON: Did that value, that um--it sounds like education and career is important. Is that a tradition, or a value that you were raised with by your mother? And your mother's mother?

(00:30:04)

DOSHI: Yeah. You know, it's just that really it's a very progressive positive 30:00changes. I can tell you my grandmother--this is so strange, like my grandmother didn't see my grandfather and was married to him because his parents told him to. Told her to do that, you know. Then my mother and father saw each other and got married. But I don't think that there was any say "yes" or "no" to, you know. And then my time came. Yes, I can say "yes, I want to marry the gentleman," or "I don't." There was--and now my daughter, this is a (indeterminable) and I'm telling my daughter, brought the young guy home and said, "Mom, this is he guy I want to marry." See how, you know, how much...progression in that. That marriage system has changed, too. Because there's no way I'm going to tell my daughter in this country, because she's born and brought up in this American custom. I sure like to have an Indian gentleman as my son-in-law. You know. I, and there is nothing wrong. There are very bright and young, handsome, Indian guys available. But my daughters mmm, you know, wanted to fall in love and date some young American guy, that's fine with me. 31:00You know, the changes are hard. But it's in the long run, it's okay. Because I can see my great-grandmother didn't cover anything. We didn't see the bride's, you know, his, her husband's face until the night, you know, the first wedding night. And my daughter brings the boyfriend home and say, "Mom, I want to marry this gentleman." Yes, I have to accept that. You know, that's a reality of the life. And one thing, the value--that's one thing that...I tell my children. No matter if you are born and brought up in this country--you are an American. But I strongly believe in roots. Our heritage, you know. Never forget that you are 32:00part of an Indian family. You should be very proud of your Indian culture. Because you know, family value and character is the most important to me. I think this country is a really missing the principal and the values. What is a character? Character is made of principals and values. And we are liking in a character.

JOHNSON: What were some of the things you tried to um, to do to help maintain that sense when you were raising your children?

DOSHI: It's very difficult. You know, when you are, you know, sending your children to the school, and peer pressure. And it's very difficult...you know, maybe if you're continuously nagging and tell them who you are, you know. My daughter came one time--I remember exactly this. It was maybe four or five--my oldest daughter, four- or five-years-old. And summer time, you know, I used to take them in swimming pool. And she's a little darker uh, skinned than most of my other, my two children. And she--beautiful features--long hair, and four- or 33:00five-years-old. And we go swimming and--dark skin. And the, we used to go to the First Baptist Church in downtown. And uh, and one young...boy in the Sunday school said, was telling that, "Oh, you are a black girl." You know, "Why you are in our church?" And of course, my oldest daughter didn't have any clue. She comes home and starts crying. "That little boy told me that I'm, I'm black, mom. Am I black?" I said, "No honey, you are now black," you know. "Then why that boy was telling me?" And she said, "I'm not going for swimming anymore because my skin is become very dark. And...and that, that kind of bothered that I wanted to give her a sense of pride. Now how do you do with a four-years-old child? And that's a very, you know, very touchy subject for the people coming from a different value, different culture, different skin color. And I remember, I have, you know, she was getting the Bible. And I went in her room upstairs and um, got the Bible. And she used to carry Jesus, little portrait. And I said, "Let's go (indeterminable), look at it. Now what color Jesus has? Jesus doesn't 34:00have white skin. He has a beautiful brown hair, brown eyes. And beautiful skin like you. See? Jesus is not white. Jesus is not black. Jesus has a perfect skin like you. That tells you that God loves you. Jesus has given you the same skin color and eye color that what he has it." And you know it, that's the best I can do. And that, that incidence is so strong in my mind, I don't know whether my daughter remembers. She's 27-years-old today. But...

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

DOSHI: You know, and you think about it...you want to give your--is it uh....

JOHNSON: Yeah, I'm going to flip it over.

(00:35:00)

(tape cuts out)

JOHNSON: This is side B. I'm speaking with Gita Doshi. Um, and you were talking about um, raising your children with a sense of who they were. Or who their people were.

DOSHI: Yeah, character. I wanted to give them something in the value and the principal and moral. Who you are. Where are you coming from. Where is your roots. It's difficult. And I hope and pray god, to this day that I hope I have given them some sense of confidence. Or uh, no matter....you know, you may have a little darker complexion. Or you may look a little different than the, mmm, 36:00most of the Americans. But you are and American. You know. You are born and brought up here. This is your country. India to them is a foreign country. To me, India is my motherland. I was born and brought up there. Or you know, at least up to 25 years. I know this is so strange. I will spend more of my lifetime in this country, my adopted country, than I have spend time in--you know India is strange to me, too. I, I love the country but you know, I have a more...connection with my adopted country. Because I'm an American, too. You know, I may look different. I may sound a little different. But I am an 37:00American. And then you, you create a bond between--because this is my adopted country. But still, I'm, I keep my high, head high. And you know, up to this day. And I want to a little much better job with my grandchildren. To raise, you know, one of these days that maybe four, fourth or fifth generation will have a darker skin or dark hair and dark brown eyes. You know, and then suddenly the thoughts will come to their mind, "Who am I? Why am I have a little, you know, not blue-eyed, blonde-haired? Why am I have a darker skin?" Or they may have a question. Say "My, your great-great-grandmother was born and raised in India." This is the sense of identity, you know, that we have to give to our children. 'Cause, you know, this country--the sense of character is lose, we are losing it. Look at the first half century. Like Thomas Jeffersons. You know. Uh, 38:00Mahatma Gandhi. Martin Luther King. Look at the character. They were the bedrock of the, you know, the...what do you call it? They were the, you know, you can, you can remember their character. You don't see, in the government today, not a you know, strong character. Strong moral and strong value...to who you are and what you want to achieve. That gives you really, direction of the life. And...I have tried. And I hope and pray, you know, god's graced children doing very good in education. My main thing was focus on education.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

DOSHI: Because if you have educations, you can achieve anything. You know. And sometimes you have to fight for the...good educations. Because there is a, you know, you talk about it--I don't see directly discriminations in a small community. But you know, discrimination is a part of everyday life. You have to, 39:00you have to face it, you know. You don't see it in a negative way, but yes, it is always there. And especially Indian side. Because most of the Indian students are good students. Hard-working students. And uh, you know, so many times you see in the college admissions, so many times in a job situation. And that's the thing I tell my children. That you know, if you face it you have to, you know, you have to learn to live with it. Because you know, you're going to--in your life sometimes it happens. And a child might get...or...my son called me three days ago, said, "Mom, it's so...political here." You know, 'cause he's, he's applying for early admission to the medical school in George Washington. And the copy came, he said, "Mom, it's really not fair. I, I have a much better grade than some of the students who's applying with me. And what is the problem?" I says, "Honey, there is, there is always going to be affirmative actions or whatever you call discriminations." Because they have so many Indians and...foreign students...applying for the early decision. Out of 20 there are 15 40:00other, you know, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis...maybe five white American. You know. And they, they have to have some kind of a boundary. He said, "Mom, that's not fair." And I said, "That is the life. You have to learn to live with it." And that's, that's very difficult. (00:40:28) You know. You want to give them a....positive aspect of the life. Or motivations. But you don't want them to give a false sense of...idea. That no, you can, you know, you can do anything, but you have to work a little harder. You know. I, I hope I'm not coming like a, a negative or this. But that's, that's an everyday of life. You face it.

JOHNSON: Yeah. Now you moved here then, when you moved and you found yourself...in a small community in Kentucky, what were some of your first impressions?

DOSHI: Gosh, you know, I came from a--I remember we, we landed in the New York airport. And then my husband had only (laughs) ten dollars in his pocket. 41:00Because you know, when, when he came back to India, he didn't need a dollar. Because currency's so different. And he had 300, 400 dollars left in a bank in Harlan...Kentucky. And uh, we just got the--we bought the two tickets here. Enough money to buy the two tickets from New York. Bus terminal to the Harlan, Kentucky. We took a Greyhound Bus. (indeterminable) about 27 hours of journey. I was wearing my saris and, you know. And I remember that our, we took a Swiss airline. And we, our journey from Bombay to Zurich, Switzerland. And it was month of May and it was so cold, you know. 'Cause I'm not accustomed to the cold weather. In India it was 90 degrees. And then in Zurich, when we landed, it was so cold. And we spent two days to--he wanted, my husband wanted to spend two, three days. And, but I said, "I got to have a coat." I remember that coat that...

JOHNSON: (laughs)

DOSHI: Month of May. When I landed in uh, Harlan, I was still wearing that blue coat with my long hair. And I was wearing saris and....People in a small community, they knew that the Indian doctor is coming with the, with his young bride. And...first time I went to the grocery store was A&P, you know. People were like--especially the small children thought that, what alien landed in-- (laughs)

JOHNSON: (laughs)

DOSHI: On the earth or...You know, they will look at me and...and I was little bit shy and intimidated, too. And you know, 'cause I didn't have--I, I had some skirts and blouse and...In India, girls wear all those things. But after the marriage, people, you know, when you go for outing, you can wear slacks or skirts or blouse. But in house, I was wearing a sari and...it didn't bother me. 43:00But here I came and, you know...it was--excuse me--it was difficult. Long hair. And uh, beautiful different color saris. But probably they, they got used to me and I got used to them. And slowly, slowly I, you know, started changing. I have a few dresses. And then I became pregnant with my oldest daughter. And I had a blood clot. And I had to go to the hospital for six weeks. While I was in there, you know, I just throw my sari away. And I started, you know, wearing the slacks and dresses. It's been almost, you know, 27 years. And...I hardly wear my saris anymore. Once in a while, Indian function I'll wear it.

JOHNSON: What about, how did you find um...um...you, now you said you lied and said you knew how to cook. Did you learn how to cook then?

DOSHI: Yes. It, I started learning. You know, my mother is a very good cook and so does my mother-in-law was a good cook. And uh...you know when you are, when 44:00you are a students and going, used to live in a dorm. And you know, when you go for the holidays, you are so tired. Your parents--I remember my, my mother will always say, "Gita," you know, "know how, you should learn how to cook." And my father will say, "Leave her alone. She just come for a few days. Let her enjoy the life." So I, you know, you just don't pay much attention. But I knew the, the way of cooking. I never took the responsibility to do. But I...my husband and I stayed in India for two years after marriage.

JOHNSON: Oh.

DOSHI: Because at that time he was on a student visa. And um...the rules was that you can not come back. You have to stay in your original country for two years. Before you come back to In--the United States. So I can--President Lindon Johnson changed that law. (00:45:02) And we came but, we both stayed in a small 45:00community. Suburb of Calcutta. And started our practice. We practiced for two years there. I was doing strictly for uh, female, you know, medicine. And then he was working with the...So we, we worked in the same office. And you know, I have to...cook. And my mother-in-law was really helpful. (indeterminable) the trial-and-error has uh, learned a lot. And my mother came here around about ten years ago. In this house. And I had house done. Because my mother and impression that I, I'm a tomboy. I have no idea, no sense of decorations, no sense of uh, responsibility. Because I was the oldest child and...very studious in my study. And I really wanted to exceed, excel myself in a, academic area. I didn't have any interest in um, being a housewife or being a....professionally, academically 46:00I wanted to do. And my mother thought, you know, Gita can never handle. But looking first, as she entered this house, and she was so...shocked and surprised that, you know, I have become good decorator, and I can cook very well. And, you know. She says, "I can't believe it. How did you do it?" I said, "Well, it's just a responsibility, you know." It gives you some kind of strength. But, you know, I cook pretty well...today.

JOHNSON: Was it a challenge um, when you um, moved to Kentucky then? Um...

DOSHI: Uh...

JOHNSON: Cooking the way you had learned to cook?

DOSHI: Yeah, it was a challenge. First time I remember--so many memories coming back to my mind. Because, you know, my husband has not given me a clear-cut picture. 'Cause we...we were practicing...until the last day. Because we didn't want to tell our patients that we are moving back to the United States. Because 47:00we had a huge practice and...He, you know, we never did have a...honest conversation with each other. We were just trying to close up our practice and...Anyhow, the hospital is given us a small two-bedroom apartment. And I was expecting the next day, somebody will come and clean my apartment.

JOHNSON: (laughs)

DOSHI: And uh, I have no idea. And my husband, I says you know, "When is the maid will be here?" He says, "What maid?" I says, "Honey, clean. You know, make beds and vacuum or do the laundry." He says, "Honey, you are the maid, you are the cook, and you are the clean-up this apartment." (laughs) And I was shocked and surprised. I have no clue that I have to make my own bed. Because in India, labor is so cheap. I...I will get up from my bed and I never made bed. Because we have a, you know, we call servants. But our housemaid will come in the morning. In my home, when I was growing up in my mother's house, I had a 48:00lady...came to start working with my great-grandfather when she was nine-years-old. And she died at age of 73. She raised my grandfather. She raised my father. She raised me. She has seen my own son. So it was four generations. She was, she was a house nanny. She will get up in the morning--my mother never fixed us a breakfast. She will get up--my mother will get up at 8:30 or 9:00, and we will be all gone by school at that time. Nanny will get up, dress us up, give us a breakfast. So I, you know, I didn't have a sense of how to cook or clean. And it was a definitely shock to me, to do the housework. Do the laundry. You know, cooking was not a problem, but then washing the pots and pan and cleaning the dishes. Up to this day, I don't like it. (laughs)

JOHNSON: (laughs)

DOSHI: And you know...

JOHNSON: That's a pretty big adjustment then.

DOSHI: Very big adjustment. You know. Labor is so cheap in India. Here it's so 49:00expensive. You know, and people--but in a way, I like that privacy. You know, you live in India--now I got back to, back home and...servants or housemaid, they are all around you. You don't have any privacy, you know. It just. It's just too much commotion to me. And I want everybody to clean the house and go away. And I like the kind of peace and quiet. In India, you don't get that. 'Cause you know, that--even up to this day I take my children, and you know, they have to take a bath at 9:00 because sometimes the water, you know, they will cut off the water by 11:00. They have to, you know, servants is here to do the laundry by 11:00. "Mom, do we have to take a shower?" You know, its' a kind of--India is ruled by British. And a lot of British customs. We take a bath in the morning, before we go to the breakfast table. And um, lot of English customs. That we go in afternoon tea. We, you know, children will wash their 50:00face. And then they gather their, children will have a milk and cookies, and ladies will have a teatime. But uh, it's a little English influence on that. And my children didn't, didn't like that. Every time they go, "Do I have to do that, Grandma?" I tell my mom, "Please leave them alone. They won't know, they're not going to be happy." You know.

(00:50:31)

JOHNSON: How often did you visit, visit India?

DOSHI: Uh...like three years ago. My nephew's wedding....I'd really like to go next year. Uh, you know, going to India for two weeks is not feasible. You have to spend at least a month. It's so difficult. Uh, but I--hopefully I'm planning. Every time I call my mother, my mother in aging stage. Mmm, she's 79-years-old. 51:00And she always makes me feel guilty. "Gita, you know. You should come this year. I will not be here next year." I always tell, "Mom, you've been telling me for last 25 years, you know." Always tells me--my sister is in India right now and...you know. Hopefully I like to go next year and visit me mom.

JOHNSON: Has she come over a lot?

DOSHI: No, she has come only one time. And I been telling her, you know--it's just, it's so difficult for...elderly. Because you know, they don't speak our language, English language. They're--you know and...It's so lonely here. And uh, I have regrets, yes. If I would have been in a bigger city...you see lot of Indian elderly. You know parents, they come, you know, and stay with their children. That would be good. Even for my own children. One thing I wish I would have done it a little differently. When we were looking from, for job, you know, from Eastern Kentucky, we come to Bowling Green. Yes, one of my regrets, raising 52:00the children, I wish I would have gone for bigger city. Then I could have given them a little more sense of Indian culture. In Bowling Green--

JOHNSON: With a bigger population in a bigger city?

DOSHI: Bigger population. We were the first Indian in 1974. We came to Bowling Green. And uh, you know, my children has never seen any Indian festival. Like or Holi or Diwali. Or, you know, and kind of like, Indian musical program. And it, it's very difficult for them. And I can understand, you know. My children say, "Mom, you know, how many times we have gone Indian function? How do you expect us to?" And I can understand that. Because my husband was so busy practicing medicine. And we had to go to Nashville. Now we, there is a lot of Indian family in Nashville now.

JOHNSON: What about in Bowling Green? Are there still--are there any other...

DOSHI: We have 17, 18 Indian family. Lots of owns the motel.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

DOSHI: You know. There are a few good Indian physicians in this community. Yeah, we get together uh, occasionally. Indian holidays or even American holidays. But um, bigger, bigger city is a different. You know, you see a lot of your own uh, you know, Indian boys and girls will be dating. They, you know, there's a lot of um...camaraderie in between. And I wish I would have done that. You know. In hindsight. I, I think about that. When you are young, you have no idea. I was following my husband. Wherever he, he does is fine with me. But if I have to do again...

JOHNSON: Why did he decide on Bowling Green?

DOSHI: Uh, that's a good story, too. My husband and Dr. Bill Russell, he's in internal medicine with the Graves Gilbert Clinic. They did the residency together in Baptist hospital. In Nashville. And uh, we--my husband knew him. And when I was in--we were in uh, Whitesburg. Uh, we were going to for a conference in Nashville. And go to the Grand Ole Opry in 1973...or so. And he, my husband 54:00said, "Let's, I want to go and visit an old friend in...Bowling Green. And then he wants to see you, too." Because after I met him, he said, Dr. Russell will always call my husband say, "Well I want to see your lovely bride. Just come on down here," and....Bowling Green was on our way. To go to Nashville. And so we stop in there one evening, and we met uh, Dr. uh, Russell and his wife, Anna Russell. And...you know, we, we had a wonderful time, and that time at the Graves Gilbert Clinic where the two physicians were leaving internal medicine department. Was losing the two physicians at the same time. And...they are, you know, Mrs. Russell and Dr. Russell ask us and...I, I jumped to the chance. I said, "Sure, we'd love to, you know, come here." Because my daughter's one...my oldest one was two, four-years-old. My youngest daughter was round about two-years-old. And small community, I was getting kind of tired. 'Cause they 55:00didn't have a kindergarten, they didn't have a nursery for children. And I wanted to get out and give them some education. Look more to the bigger city. And we had looked at few towns in Ohio. But somehow, you know, Dr. Russell says, "We'd love to have you at the Graves Gilbert Clinic." And you know, we came for interview in uh, October 19, I think 19...May in 1974 and accepted the positions. And came in October 1974.

(00:55:45)

JOHNSON: How did you find Bowling Green?

DOSHI: Coming from Whitesburg, Kentucky, I thought I was in heaven in Bowling Green. Bowling Green seems to me so big. Because, and I was very happy. We lived in Eastland Park. In 1923 Harvey Street. Next to the Greenview hospital. And we 56:00bought a four-bedroom house. And uh, you know...uh...I joined the garden club and the women's club. And I knew pretty much that I didn't want to work for awhile until the girls are grown, you know.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

DOSHI: Got a little older and goes to school. But I absolutely fall in love with Bowling Green. I felt like coming from a small community, staying four years in Whitesburg.

JOHNSON: Did you have that kind of social um, activity when you were in Whitesburg.

DOSHI: No. We had a couple of um, one Filipino family was there. There was one Indian family. No, we used to go to Lexington, Kentucky for some of the, you know, holidays or functions. But...no, my husband was the only internal medicine doctor in that community. With round about 15 to 16 general practitioners. Like family physicians. But he was the mainly consultant in that. And he was very 57:00busy. So my community, lot of uh, you know, coal mine. Was a wonderful practice. But clearly, tell you that the people were loving and caring. They gave, they have really wanted us to stay there and begged us to stay. "We will give you free land. You can build your home here. You don't need to move." It was very, very tough decisions for us to move. Because good money, good community. But I really wanted to do my girls, education-wise.

JOHNSON: So, what was your first house like here in Bowling Green?

DOSHI: Bowling Green? It was wonderful. And you know, up to this day, if I tell...we tell this kind of a story to--because I am a good story teller. Anytime even Americans or Indians, we get together. I tell all kind of a story about my marriage and my, you know uh, coming to America. And, and even in my 58:00own department, "Gita would like to see, you know, can you tell that story again?" But anyhow, we, we bought that house. And it was a $47,800. And, we told our, our friends that we bought that house for cash. In this country nobody pays the house for the cash payment. We had saved that cash money and my husband didn't believe in buying, getting the loan from government. Because in India, you know, that we are born and brought up with the no credit card. If you have money, you pay for it or you don't buy it. This is the way I was, my husband and I were brought up in that. And somehow that value stays in your mind. And, but it was a stupid decision I think. So that, to pay $47,000 in cash. Even our real estate was surprised. But our first house, four-bedroom, pretty house. You know. And uh, we, we paid that for with cash. And we bought the first house. And it 59:00was, it was a good memory. Bot the girls mmm, we stayed in that house for round about...'74 to...'80. Round about six years in that house. And I started building--my son was born in '79. Started building this house round about 1980. 'Cause we needed extra bedroom. 'Cause my father-in-law, my mother came. We needed extra bedroom for my in-laws or my parents. When somebody comes from India. So we started building this. And today, when I bought this lot for 17,000--right now, this lot can be probably (indeterminable) 50,000.

JOHNSON: So you planned, you designed this house. You planned this the way you wanted it?

DOSHI: Pretty much so. I have a few regrets. You know, who doesn't have regrets in the life? You know. Anytime you build a house or anything. I wish I would have done something differently. But yes, I wanted something uh, that's roomy 60:00and nice and airy. And wanted to do some kind of a touch of Indian. If you look at in this house--

(01:00:12)

JOHNSON: Yeah, I was just gonna ask--

DOSHI: Every little piece--I have a few little knick knack here and there that--like this elephant I bought for, in the garden region in Louisville. Last year. But uh, and like this table. I--it gives me some kind of a...pride. Of who am I. Where I'm coming from.

JOHNSON: Um, I was just wondering, is there a...what kind of thought did you put into when you were actually setting up the house? Of like using of, use of space? Are there differences from when you were growing up in India? And, or how do you take that background and use it here?

DOSHI: India...India is smaller because I grew up in a huge, probably house. You call it, you call the mansion, you can call it. Because it was a huge house. And so does my husband. He grew up in a big house. And the rooms and the carpets and 61:00the, you know, simple furniture. But uh, beautiful silk carpet and tall open window. Because we don't have (indeterminable), everything's open. And those days, when this house was built, we didn't have a heating and cooling system. You know, everything is a ceiling fan. So I wanted ceiling fan--you can see in every room. Because I grew up in a ceiling fan. Because in India it's so hot. And we don't have air conditions. Now you know, we have a--some houses is coming up in Bombay or some apartments. That's with them--but most of them open. And in summertime, you open the window, you let the ceiling fan run. So I just, some of them I wanted open and airy. And my rooms are much bigger than most of the homes. Upstairs bedroom also I have designed a little bit. Because I grew up in a huge home. Big rooms. That, I think that stays with you somehow, you know.

JOHNSON: Yeah....So um, how have you found Bowling Green as a home? What kind of things, if you could change things, what kind of things would you, do you miss? Or would you want different?

DOSHI: Hmm....what I would like? It means raising the family? Or working?

JOHNSON: Mmm, do you want me to--

DOSHI: I wish we never--you know, my girls went to the private school, in Anchored Christian School. Uh, up to the, you know, elementary educations. I don't know, I...I wish I can change some of the education in India. It, it's--in here. It, it's just uh...children are getting academic educations. But the sense of value and moral, and those things, I really like to, you know, instill in 63:00today's students. Not on my own. I try to give as much as value to mine because I don't believe in drinking and smoking. And certain values, you know. And most of the Indian, when I was growing up in Indian culture. In a community. And I'm sure here, too, your great-grandmother, your grandparents didn't believe that...dating or sex before the marriage. And--those, but some of the value I have tried and continuously putting in my children's mind. That, "Honey, you're not supposed to do that, you know." Certain (indeterminable) does it, that's fine. But we don't do those in this family. No bad language is, I never heard my--you know. I remember one time my son was angry and used the word and I was completely shocked. Because we don't use that kind of language in this home. And uh, you know. And we tried but, I, I occasionally when the (indeterminable) I 64:00probably take a half a glass of wine or something. But my husband is strictly. He has never touched the wine or alcohol. Pretty much vegetarian. My husband is strict vegetarian. I dabble a little chicken here and there. It doesn't bother me. Because it's, it's not a religious belief. Because people believe that if you are Hindu, Hindu don't eat meat. But yeah, some of the Hindu eat meat, you know. Why, we don't eat beef because cow is a sacred.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

DOSHI: In India. And if you look at that--because in those days--you know, India is a...agriculture country. And the cow was a very useful animal. We use the milk. We use the (indeterminable). Cow dung is a fertilizer. And in the base 65:00philosophy, India doesn't believe in killing the cow. But uh, uh, some of the things being, you know, telling them--my children eat meat. We have never made any hard and strict rule for eating the meat. If you want to eat, it's fine. But it's, you know, excessive meat product is not good for you for the--Now they are, both the girls uh, are physicians. Naturally, you know, they know the, more the signs and health hazard. That's why they don't, they don't eat much meat. They, they hardly eat meat. They eat mainly the white meat. Chicken. Or turkey. But because now they grow up and they are in the science field. And we have never--but yes, I still, I still tell that to even my son-in-law my daughter, you know, social drinking is fine. Glass of wine is fine. But you don't want to make a daily habit.

(01:05:47)

JOHNSON: So, you were raised um, both Hindu and um, Jan-ist?

DOSHI: Jain.

JOHNSON: Jain.

DOSHI: Jain religion, yeah it is a mixture. Uh-huh.

JOHNSON: And uh, how have you...found kind of a spiritual community here?

DOSHI: Spiritual--yeah because you know, I started--that's the one thing I wanted to...do. Because I strongly believe in god. Super power, you know. And I wanted to give some kind of a religious belief to my children. And it's very difficult in small community. I don't have temple. And my husband's belief and mine is a little different. But it's still in a, you know...And I, I sent my girls to the uh....Christian school. And you know, that's the reason, that's the reason we have become, you know, this household has become kind of world religion. Because my girls went to--my daughter was baptized in a Methodist church. My oldest one. My youngest son was baptized in Eastwood Baptist Church. In a Baptist. And the girls went, and my son even went to the Christian school. 67:00So I, you know, and my son goes to the Eastwood Baptist Church all the time. And he believes in Christian religion. And uh, and my daughter married a Catholic guy. So it's, this household has become a mixture of all the religion. But my true, you know...I don't believe in a particular religion, but I believe in a human...love and kindness and...understanding for fellow man. I may not be versatile...Jesus or Rama or Krishna. I'm, trust me I'm not an atheist. But I believe in supreme god. There is only one god. No, no, no matter...which religion you believe in. Either Hindu or Christian or Muslims. Like, you going to the Barnes and Nobles, you can take a Lover's Lane Road or you can take the 68:00bypass. You're going to go to the Barnes and Nobles.

JOHNSON: (laughs)

DOSHI: There is a one destination. You want to go? That's the way. All human being wants to go the heaven. Or do the good deed on this earth. It doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Hindu. So I think I, I'm very liberal in that thinking. My husband is a little different. He's strict, you know, philosophies and Jain philosophy of the life. And I take a little mixture of every religion. And adapt the middle ground. 'Cause I go to the church. You know, not regularly. But I have sang in the Christmas--we do uh, we go to a lot of, you know. And it doesn't bother me.

JOHNSON: Are there any uh, Hindu or Jain um, celebrations throughout the year that you observed in your family?

DOSHI: In my family here? No.

JOHNSON: Here. With the children.

DOSHI: No, not in this household. You know, we will go to the general functions. Like Diwali from (indeterminable)

JOHNSON: What is it?

DOSHI: Diwali. D-e-w...l...w-a-l-i. D-e-w-a--

JOHNSON: Diwali.

DOSHI: Diwali. You know, like a...festival for light.

JOHNSON: Festival of light?

DOSHI: Mhmm, festival of lights.

JOHNSON: And what is it's significant.

DOSHI: It's a kind of a, you know...it's a re--how do I put it? Really it was a birth of uh, Krishna. They're celebrating the birth of a son of god. In uh, you know, spiritual way. Actually is at the end of the year. And uh, renewal your spiritual. Renew your growth. It's a end of the year. Actually it's the, our new year starts from after the Diwali.

JOHNSON: And what time of year is it?

DOSHI: Usually falls in November. You know. First of second week of November. It falls before our Christmas holidays. Because I went to the Indian school system--

(tape cuts out)

(01:10:00)