Oral History Interview with Noy Boriboune

MARIANNE ARRINGTON: Okay. This is Marianne Arrington. Today is June 28th, 1999. Um, we are at my home in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and I am with Noy...and what is your last name?

NOY BORIBOUNE: Boriboune. Boriboune.

ARRINGTON: Can you spell that?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. It's B-O-R-I-B-O-U-N-E.

ARRINGTON: B-O-R...

BORIBOUNE: I.

ARRINGTON: I.

BORIBOUNE: B-O-U-N-E.

ARRINGTON: Boriboune. And "Noy" is N-O-Y. Um...Noy came to the United States from Laos, and she's gonna tell us a little bit about how she ended up here. Or how your family immigrated from Laos and what you're...I mean, about what year 1:00was it?

BORIBOUNE: It was, um, we got here in 1980.

ARRINGTON: Okay.

BORIBOUNE: We got to the US in 1980, but we had spent from 1976 through 1980 in a refugee camp in Thailand. So we spent some time there. Um...

ARRINGTON: How old were you at...how old were you in 1980? What's your birthday?

BORIBOUNE: I was born in December, so I came here at five and a half. So I turned December that following year. We came in April, so I turned six...

ARRINGTON: So you were born in '75?

BORIBOUNE: Four.

ARRINGTON: '74. December '74. Okay. Okay, so, um, so...excuse me. Or...initially your family lived in Laos. Can you tell us about the political situation there?

BORIBOUNE: Um, the Vietnam War was just about ready to end, I think, it didn't quite end until, like, 1975, '76. I think that's roughly right. But, um, it was 2:00a Communist state, and, uh, I believe it still is a Communist state. People haven't had their independency yet. Um, during the...during that time since the war was going on with the U.S. and Vietnam, um, Laos sort of got entangled in the middle 'cause U.S. troops were coming over to Laos to, um, use the land to cross over.

So they...so all that was going on, and the Communist state, and my parents just, uh, they didn't really have a choice because my aunt had gone to Thailand through a visa to stay in Thailand for a little while just to do some work and things like that. And once it ran out, she just didn't want to go back to Laos because of the situation over there was a little bit too rough. Um, but the only thing that separates Laos and Thailand is that river, the Mekong River, and so there's nowhere...you can't just cross over from land to land. You have to go across a river that might stretch half a mile to a mile depending on where 3:00you're at. And so, uh, once my aunt's visa ran out...I'm not quite sure. I get sort of messed up on the story, but, uh, they ended...the government in Thailand, since she didn't want to come back, had either given her the choice to go back to Laos or to immigrate to the United States. So she went to a refugee camp in Thailand.

ARRINGTON: In Thailand?

BORIBOUNE: In Thailand. Yeah.

ARRINGTON: Okay.

ARRINGTON: Okay.

BORIBOUNE: So she had to go to a refugee camp in Thailand, and at that time there was a lot of refugee camps 'cause there were a lot of people fleeing from, um, Cambodia and Laos. Um, and so my aunt went there. And so in order for anybody to be with her, my dad and my mom had to make decisions to do the same thing and go over there and be in a refugee camp. Um, that was...that was the 4:00beginning of, no, the middle of 1976 'cause my brother was just born that March. And, um, I was born in '74 and my brother was born in the beginning of '76. And...

ARRINGTON: So you were about 13 months apart?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. About roughly 13, 14 months apart. And then, um, so my dad what he did for a living was he was a fisherman and a farmer 'cause the whole family had some land on a village and stuff like that. And so it wasn't, um, they always had border patrols here in certain sectors of the river, and it...so it wasn't really, my dad wasn't an unfamiliar face on the river 'cause he was a fisherman. So, uh, my brother was about three months old, my brother was roughly about three months old, and my parents had, uh, to literally escape.

So in order for them do it, um, since my dad didn't have a boat, uh, they had put my brother and I underneath some blankets, and so the only visible people on that boat were my parents. And so the guards, you know, would ask, "What are you doing?" And my dad had a logical excuse that he was night-fishing, and it wasn't unusual. And so he just went up the river and just crossed, um, and then...in an area in Thailand. And that...from there he just, I don't know how they got to a refugee camp. I guess we just walked right into it.

Um, it's a little bit like what Kosovo is going through right now, and how they just go to refugee camps. And it's exactly like that. Refugee camps, they have tents set up, and they don't have enough food, and so you just have to get what you can. When the trucks come around they pass out food. I remember that, though, that we had to share, um, a small tent with, like, other families and 6:00stuff like that. And from there we stayed there for a while, a long time. And what had happened was, um, missionaries would come, you know, and talk about wherever they were from. If we'd even be interested in going to those remote areas and stuff, and what would happen--

ARRINGTON: What do you mean? Missionaries from where?

BORIBOUNE: Missionaries from, like, all over the world. Like, uh, they had a lot of missionaries that came from the U.S., and they had some from, um, South America, and they had a bunch from Europe. And a lot of people got scattered, um, what the...what do I want to call it? What the...what happened was they had to have a particular family sponsor you.

ARRINGTON: Right.

BORIBOUNE: In order to come. And so a lot of these sponsorships came through, um, missionary work and churches. And so they'd send people to see if, um, 7:00basically...recruit, um, recruit to see if anybody wanted to go to a certain area or just wanted to leave.

ARRINGTON: But, uh, when you say certain remote areas, I mean, just areas all over the world?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, just areas all over the world really. Um...

ARRINGTON: Christian missionaries.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, Christian missionaries. Pretty much. If, from what I remember, uh, they did that. And then they would recruit and see if there was a family. And then somebody would come and, um, say, "Okay. We have a family who wants to sponsor your family. Do you want to go?" And that's how it was, but there was so many refugees. And a lot of people didn't wanna....didn't wanna go to a different place 'cause they were hoping that maybe they could just stay or go home, you know. And so, um...and a lot of people who stayed in that particular camp for such a long time, they would...what they do is they usually ship them 8:00to the Philippines. They usually shipped a bunch of them to the Philippines 'cause they had more room. And then more refugees would come to that certain camp. But, um, I never heard anything after that about the Philippines refugee camp.

But we had a family, we had a missionary that came, uh, and made the announcement, you know, that we have, uh, so many families that can sponsor you. We can take so many families. And so my dad had, uh, decided that it was best for us to go. This was hard because, um, this was all we had, too. Everything we had was just everything we had in our camps. And so, um, my dad decided that, you know, we should leave because there was nothing that could benefit them there anymore.

ARRINGTON: You mean, leave Thailand, and leave behind Laos, and not hope to go home, but just leave and hope...

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, and go somewhere new and hopefully that one day could just go 9:00back and visit. And they have since then. Um, and so there was, we were really expecting, um, we were really expecting to go to Europe or South America. We didn't expect to come to the U.S. We really didn't. And it didn't matter to my family. It didn't really matter where we were gonna go as long as we weren't there at the time. And so my dad had just said "yes," and to any one of the three, and the U.S. wasn't even on the list. 'Cause I think a lot of people wanted to come to the U.S., but it was more like a waiting list to come to the U.S. than any other place. And so his first priority was just to get out.

ARRINGTON: To someplace safe.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. 'Cause we had spent almost three, almost four years in a refugee camp, and so, uh, I think my dad had just had enough. And so somebody, a church, um, in Chesterton, Indiana had, uh, a family who wanted to sponsor our 10:00family, or sponsor a family. And so we did all the procedures and paperwork, and, uh, we came here in 1980.

ARRINGTON: What kind of procedures and paper?

BORIBOUNE: Uh, there was...procedures and paperwork. There was a lot of things that had to be changed. For example, my aunt she...the people that came over here was my father, my mother, myself, my brother, and my aunt. My mom's sister.

ARRINGTON: Okay.

BORIBOUNE: But in order for her to come with us, my dad had to say that he was her brother.

ARRINGTON: Okay.

BORIBOUNE: He couldn't say, "That's my sister-in-law." He had to say that she was a part of his family.

ARRINGTON: Instead of your mother's family.

BORIBOUNE: Right.

ARRINGTON: It had to be a part of your father's family.

BORIBOUNE: Yes. Had to do that. And, plus, everybody in our family had only a first...a first and last name. But on papers they wanted you to have a first, 11:00middle, and last name, so everything got added. There was an extra name got added. Like, um, for example, my real first name is Esan. And my middle name...my play name, which my parents gave me my first name, is Noy, and I didn't get that until I was five, when I did all the paperwork.

ARRINGTON: So, okay. Say that again. Your first name is what?

BORIBOUNE: Esan.

ARRINGTON: And your...

BORIBOUNE: The play name that I have is Noy.

ARRINGTON: Play name? What do you mean by that?

BORIBOUNE: Since we didn't...we only had a first and a last name. We never had the first, middle, last.

ARRINGTON: Uh huh.

BORIBOUNE: But the paperwork that we had to do, we had to have a first, middle, and a last name.

ARRINGTON: Uh huh.

BORIBOUNE: So my parents...

ARRINGTON: They made up.

BORIBOUNE: They made up...even though Noy is, uh, it's a popular name like Jennifer, Christine.

ARRINGTON: Okay.

BORIBOUNE: They just threw me, gave me a name, and it was like...Noy Esan Boriboune. And even though my first name is my middle name, that's, I guess...

ARRINGTON: Yeah.

BORIBOUNE: So we did those paperwork, and we did, uh, that was really all there was to numbers. It's just, like, uh, a bunch of numbers, uh, medical check-up. Stuff like that. We did had do all that. It was just a lot of paperwork to make sure we were gonna be legal and not come in over here illegally. Taking pictures there and before and after, stuff like that.

Um, and so we finally got here in 1980. We came in April, the middle of April. And, uh, we landed in California, and at that time I think that there was...had been snow. In 1980, in April, if I recall it, there was snow on the ground. The trees were so dead from winter, and my parents were just amazed because you go from, uh, 80, 90, even 100 degree weather all year round in a monsoon season 13:00where it just rains to having snow and cold. And, uh, heat...

ARRINGTON: And that was California, you said?

BORIBOUNE: That was California!

ARRINGTON: 'Cause normally it doesn't snow in California.

BORIBOUNE: I think maybe it was just cold in California. I think my parents were talking about that we saw snow when we got to Indiana. I think that's Chicago. So when we, um, we went to California, uh, to Chicago. And...

ARRINGTON: Did you stay any amount of time in California?

BORIBOUNE: We stayed there for, uh, three weeks for in-processing.

ARRINGTON: Three weeks?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. Three weeks. We had to...I don't remember it...

ARRINGTON: What did they do?

BORIBOUNE: Three weeks that they put, uh, a whole bunch of different families into, uh, a hotel sort of. It's more like a room, a hotel. And then they just wait for all the paperwork, like, death date, fingerprints, taking pictures, 14:00numbers. Just...it was just a whole ordeal of paperwork. And I think if it was just our family doing paperwork it would probably just take a couple hours. But they had so many people coming over at one time.

And so, uh, once we got there, they put us on a plane again, and then we went to O'Hare Airport. And then from there we met with the family that was going to sponsor us. Um, they were...they were very nice. Um, his name was Bob Wall, and he was, uh, he was a part of an elderly council in church. Liberty Bible Church, which is a nondenominational church. And he was very nice and generous to our family. Um, they had a...they had owned a house that was right next to the church that was really for missionaries, but they put our family there and let us live there for...for a long time. And then they, uh, then they had another house on that property, and let us move into that house and leave that smaller house for the missionaries to live in.

So my dad worked at the church as a maintenance man, and my mother worked there, 15:00too. She only worked there for about eight years, and, uh, eight years...and my father still works there now, so it's been a long time.

ARRINGTON: So that's almost been 20 years.

BORIBOUNE: And we had a big ordeal about, um, about religion. We did. Because we went from being Buddhist to want to change to Christianity. That's a big flip-flop. And so, I think, it was a lot harder on my parents than it ever was on my brother and myself because during that young...younger years in my life, even though I knew certain aspects about the religion and things like that, it was a lot harder for my parents 'cause that's all they'd ever known. And going 16:00from there to here, and having to not really convert...it was by choice that they converted, but I think, um, that there's a lot of mis...misconception about, um, religion and culture. I think a lot of people have to understand that, um, that culture is...is created by religion. And even though we do things that might, uh, reflect on the Buddhist religion, it's not that because culture is a part of religion.

And it's not that we didn't wanna break the religion or follow the religion, but that was instilled in culture. 'Cause, uh, in Laos probably, I think probably 99% of the population is probably Buddhist. I don't know what it is now. I'm sure it's...the numbers have changed, but, I mean, that's all my parents ever knew, and that's all their parents ever knew and so forth. And so for my brother 17:00and I, it was a transition but it wasn't. Not so much like my parents. My parents, it took them...it took them 12 years to really convert. And I don't know if it's really converted all the way, 'cause sometimes I can't tell between the different religion and culture.I just have to understand that...that's the way it was, and our culture derived on Buddhist, Buddhism, and that's all I can...that's the only part I really, can't really distinguish. I can but I can't, you know?

ARRINGTON: Um, do they have things around their home still? Like...

BORIBOUNE: They used to have, like, uh, Buddhist statues and stuff, but they don't have them anymore. They, uh, 'cause if you have a sculpture like Buddha you can have candles around it and make a little worship place in the home, but 18:00they don't have it anymore.

ARRINGTON: But they did for a while?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. They did...

ARRINGTON: Did for a while in Indiana?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. They did when we were first came to America, uh, they did. And since we lived close to Chicago there was a lot of the population was higher, too, of immigrants in the same area. So they had a Buddhist temple and stuff like there where'd they go worship once a month. But, um, I think a lot of pressure came, uh, my mother doesn't work at the church anymore, it's just my father. I think a lot of pressure came from the church to try and convert my parents. And so I think my father felt like it was more of an obligation to switch than it was by own free will. So, um, so we all got baptized, I think, in '92.

ARRINGTON: So, in other words, your father felt a lot of pressure because these very nice people had...

BORIBOUNE: Helped him.

ARRINGTON: ...you know, had really, really helped them.

BORIBOUNE: Helped him and given him a job and a place to live. And I think he feels more obligation than anything.

ARRINGTON: Yeah.

BORIBOUNE: And he's so...he, I think he feels so much, like, he's the little man 'cause he...he knows, but his spoken English is pretty good. But he feels like he...I don't know if he feels like he can't do anything else but work there because he's put so much time there that he can't get worth the benefits that he's getting now somewhere else. Um, and granted the people have been nice to him. Bob Wall, the man and his family that had sponsored us, he had moved on and left the church. He left the congregation...

ARRINGTON: The area?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, the area. And he had moved...he had retired and then moved on. And, um, he keeps in contact with my parents once in a while, but, um, he had helped to support my parents a lot and trying to do things the right way. And I think, uh, the church has changed so much, too. They got a new elderly board, 20:00um, sort of not being fair to my father in some cases. Like, um, for example, they had...even though we were living, um, in a house that the church had owned and my dad...my father had just rented it, pretty much. And then they brought in a new man to replace my mother 'cause she had some back problems. So they, uh, they gave him more pay even though my father had been there 11 years before him. So that's sort of unfair, but I don't know if my father feels really inferior to...to say anything, you know, to stand up and say something. So, but, uh...

ARRINGTON: Well, I'm sure the language has a lot to do with it.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. The language has a lot to do with...with it. I think my father just feels like he's just...

ARRINGTON: Like he doesn't have very many options?

BORIBOUNE: Yes. That, too. And he doesn't have very many options 'cause he can't, uh, he's 50, no. He's 48. He's 48. He just turned 48, and so he just feels like he needs to stick it in there for a little bit longer and then just retire. And then...I know that sounds like...that sounds like he can do other things, I know that. But I don't...I don't think he understands that he can do other things. It also helps that it comes under an obligation, too, that he needs to just stick it because they're the people who have helped in and his family get over here. It's like that.

And growing up it was, uh, it was hard, I gotta say for myself. And I think it was hard on my brother, too. Um, my parents, the only exposure they really had to speaking English or the American culture was the normal everyday things like 22:00going to the grocery store. A lot of exposure was just church. A lot of it was just church-related.

Um, no, there was a lot of things I didn't understand. Some things were like, uh, going to school. 'Cause I only had, um, I only had four months to learn English before I got...when I got...when I started school. 'Cause at that time, um, I went to preschool for four months before I went to kindergarten, and I did fine. I just did fine. I mean, I was okay. It took me a while to...it probably took me a full year before I could really grasp the language. And they had placed me in Special Ed, too. 'Cause when they first, um, tested me to get into kindergarten, I just...I just remember we're sitting there. She was just reading things, and I was just looking at her, and so they put me in Special Ed. And now 23:00they have ESL programs now, so, uh, they did that. And I was put in Special Ed for two years, two years.

And I just could not, couldn't understand why I was going to school and, uh, they were speaking one language and then I go home and we were speaking another language. So that was a lot of confusion, and I didn't get help a lot on homework. The only thing my parents knew how to do was math 'cause it was more, like, universal language. And so I...I think I struggled, but I just got by. And as the years have gone by, and I always...there was a lot of cultural differences, too, like, uh, affection. That was...that was something that bothered me but it didn't. And I don't know if it has affected me being older now. Like, for example, um, parents would come and pick up their kids, you know. And they'd hug 'em, and kiss 'em, and tell 'em they love 'em, and things like that.

ARRINGTON: From school.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. At school. And so I always wondered why I didn't get like that, you know, just because Johnny has this and this, how come I don't have it, you know? And so I never asked, but then again, that just wasn't the way at our house, either. Like, for example, um, things are encultu...things are, uh, inscribed in you that you don't even know that they're there. Like, for example, um, I don't no have...my father doesn't have to tell me that he loves me for me to know that he does because it's just one of those things. And it's also...I should know better to wash the dishes than being asked to wash them. It's, like, instilled in me that you know what you have to do, and that you shouldn't be asked. They shouldn't be asked of you. Things like that.

And plus, um, my parents...my father has never told me that he loves me, but he doesn't have to say it. I already know it. It's things like that, but I missed a lot of that in childhood, too. And my mother started telling me that she loved me when, um, I turned 18 and was going away to college. You know, she had gotten 25:00sort of somewhat Americanized. And so she...she pretty much said it, and, you know, I said it back. But I still, I still don't have that connection with my father, which is okay, you know. I can accept it 'cause that's the way their culture was. And it would be odd if I just went back to see my grandmother and my mom tell me that she loved me in front of her. I think that would be odd, too, 'cause I know that without my mom saying it. And that she does.

And I've never seen my parents being affectionate to each other. Never. Not even holding hands. You know, um, and that's just the way things were. Um, and I guess through time I learned to accept it. I just didn't understand why they wouldn't let me do certain things 'cause they were really protective. And I don't know if that's being protective because one, I was their first child. I was the oldest child and had to be this role model. Or two, because I was also 26:00just female. Or three, that was just culture. And, uh, they were really very, very strict with me.

ARRINGTON: Like what? Give me an example.

BORIBOUNE: Very strict. Um...

ARRINGTON: Like, they wouldn't let you go out with boys?

BORIBOUNE: No. I didn't even get to date until I was 18. But I didn't turn 18 'til my senior year, and it was too late because I was going to college a month later! So it didn't...I mean, I didn't get to date. I didn't get to...I've never, uh, there have been a few times I went to overnighters. My parents just didn't want...

ARRINGTON: Like slumber parties with girls.

BORIBOUNE: Slumber parties, yeah. And if I did go to a slumber party, the parents had to bring me home at midnight. That's how it was. I didn't have a curfew depending on what I was going to do. They set a curfew when I was coming home. It wasn't, "Your curfew is 12:00. Be home by 12:00," it was, "Go get some something to eat, go to the movies, and come right back." It wasn't, you know, 27:00and I feel like I missed a lot on the socializing part and that aspect.

I did get to go to, like, uh, school activities and functions because I participated, but participating was more of a downfall. Like, uh, I ran track and cross country and stuff like that, but my parents didn't see that as, um, any...that as being an advantage for any, like, uh, school, like, it wasn't gonna get me anywhere in school. They saw it like that. Like, the extracurricular activities weren't going to take me anywhere in life. Stuff like that, you know. I mean, I didn't become an Olympic runner, you know?

ARRINGTON: Me either!

BORIBOUNE: So, I mean, things like that. They just...what they couldn't see in front of them, it wasn't really, uh, a benefit, I guess you could say. So they were really, really strict. But, um, I think they focused a lot, too, just on me. And they sort of forgot...they didn't forget, but they took the focus off my 28:00brother. He was having a harder time because he was struggling, and I think also being, uh, male also put it harder on him. 'Cause they were really, really strict on me, but they sort of, like, him...after they saw that I was gonna turn out okay, I think they just sort of, like, thought he was gonna be the same way. But they didn't discipline us the same 'cause he got...he got to date. When I was 18, he got to date when he was 16.

And he was eventually gonna...as soon as I turned an age, he would turn it, like, the following, a couple months later. So he just...now he struggles a lot, too, because he's still trying to figure out where he fits in, I think. And he's very emotional, and he keeps everything, a lot, inside. Because I don't know if they...I don't some...they just, I think they should have been strict with my 29:00parents. I think they should have been fair to both of us. If they were gonna do one way for me, they should have waited for him. But I think they thought I turned out okay, and...

ARRINGTON: He'll be fine.

BORIBOUNE: ...then he'll feel fine. Well, that didn't...not to say that he's, um, messed up or anything. He's not. He's just...there's a lot of things he doesn't...he has to find within himself, I guess you could say, because he feels like he didn't have any guidance or direction. So, but, it's strange though because my parents were so strict on me, and then when I went off to college, um, I was trying to find, like, what I should major in and stuff like that, and decide it was being so independent, no. Being so dependent on the parents to tell you what to do, where to go, when to go, and when not to go to being independent in 24 hours it seemed like.

'Cause once they dropped me off...now I look back at it, and all the decisions were on me. 'Cause every time I'd call her, my mom, and when I call home it's just to talk to my mom. If it's to talk to my dad, it's because something's wrong with my car. That's all it is. And the conversations are short and to the point, you know. They're not, "Mom, what are you doing?" blah, blah, blah. And she'd talk about...no, they're po...they're pretty much simple. Short, and simple, and to the point. Um...

ARRINGTON: Like when you call home for advice about things?

BORIBOUNE: No, because she...all she would, um, that was when, that was another thing, too. When I went off to college, it was like I got all this freedom I would have never expected to get. Like, I'd ask her, "Well, what should I major in?" And all my mother would ever say was, "It's up to you 'cause it's your life!" And that's all she's said to me ever since then.

ARRINGTON: Ever since you left the house? All of a sudden...

BORIBOUNE: Ever since, yeah. Ever since I left the house, all of a sudden this independency, and, uh, it has affected me 'cause I'm so, like, indecisive. And I have to be because I'm, like, waiting for somebody's approval!

ARRINGTON: For somebody to tell you what to do?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. And so, um, that...I think that was a big factor. That I went from totally dependent to, like, independent. And, uh, but now I just...I just call, and it's just like, "Mom, I'm going on a trip," you know, "so if you call, that's why I'm not here." Things like that. And she's, you know, and that's okay.

ARRINGTON: Do you feel like your close with your parents?

BORIBOUNE: I feel like I'm closer now than I ever was when I was younger. And I don't know why that is. It's strange 'cause my parents do stranger things now that I never thought that they would have done when I younger. For example, we had never, ever went to a public restaurant before I went to college. Never. We 32:00went to McDonald's drive-thru and brought it back home. I mean, it...we never did. Never went to a public restaurant together as a family.

ARRINGTON: Do you know why?

BORIBOUNE: I don't know why. I think it's...sometimes when I analyze it, it's because once you make a mark in your life, like, it's like graduating from high school. Once you make that mark, then, um, it's like...how do I explain? Once I hit that mark, like, to adulthood to do something that's actually gonna start my life off, I think starting college was a point for them. Then they felt, like, we can take her out because she's an adult now. It's like that. It's weird. It's like, um, when I came home my first year in college, my parents took us...took just me, just me out to eat. And I don't know whether that would be 'cause my 33:00brother wasn't around. He was working too much. They just took me out to eat. And I was surprised 'cause we went out to eat and, uh, you know, we talked and stuff like that, but they had never did that before.

ARRINGTON: So had they gone together to a public restaurant?

BORIBOUNE: No! They never...I think it's because now they characterize me as an adult, so we can do quote "adult things" together. And not so much...

ARRINGTON: But...

BORIBOUNE: ...child adult, you know?

ARRINGTON: ...but they hadn't gone just the two of them?

BORIBOUNE: No, never. They still don't. No. I mean...

ARRINGTON: Is there some cultural, um, thing...that prevents them from going to public restaurants?

BORIBOUNE: I don't know. I don't think...

ARRINGTON: Is this...

BORIBOUNE: I think, I think...

ARRINGTON: ...culture-specific to Laos?

BORIBOUNE: It's, I think, it's, um, we lived in a small village from what my parents said. It's a small village, remote, and all it is is farmland. And so 34:00the village was close-knit, and family was big, and I don't think going to a public restaurant...there wasn't really many public restaurants to go to.

ARRINGTON: To go to. Yeah.

BORIBOUNE: So it was pretty much unfamiliar territory, and...and, I think, my parents have never just those two went to a public, like, American restaurant. Like, they couldn't just sit at McDonald's. I've never, ever seen them just go by themselves. I mean, if they went to...now if they went to a Laotian store, they would go in there and eat. I think they would because the culture of being in there anyways. But they just, I think they feel uncomfortable still, to a certain extent. Stuff like...it's just strange! And then when my brother started college he ended up going out to eat with us a lot, too. But it just never happened until I started college.

ARRINGTON: Until you guys were in college.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah.

ARRINGTON: That's really curious.

BORIBOUNE: That...it's neat that it's like that, but, 'cause I think they think that now we can have adult conversations instead of the adult-child 35:00conversations. It's just weird.

ARRINGTON: So do you feel like your parents kind of treat you as a friend now instead of a child?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. They treat me more like, like a friend now. And they can actually talk to me on a level where before, um, they didn't really talk to me. It was always authority. It was always an authority figure. Now it's more, like, friend-friend. Yeah.

ARRINGTON: Well that's probably why you feel closer to them now.

BORIBOUNE: That's probably why.

(35:25)

ARRINGTON: Side Two of an interview with Noy Boriboune. Um, okay, so your parents moved recently?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, to Valparaiso.

ARRINGTON: To Valparaiso, Indiana. And your brother is still in Chesterton?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah.

ARRINGTON: Tell...why did your parents move? Was it this year?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, it was this year because, um, they had moved because the church was gonna, uh, build a retirement community, and they didn't want to be in the center of the retirement community on that land.

ARRINGTON: So, but, your father still works at the same church?

BORIBOUNE: Yes.

ARRINGTON: So he commutes now?

BORIBOUNE: He commutes now instead of walking. He commutes now, yeah. So he 36:00commutes, and my brother...

ARRINGTON: So it's close, like, a few minutes away?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, it's about six miles.

ARRINGTON: Oh, okay.

BORIBOUNE: It's not bad. It's not far. But my brother, he's, uh, he's a little bit different story than mine. Mine, I learned to accept things and just go on with it, you know, and not try to...I mean, I've analyzed it, but more in a positive view. He has a lot of...I think he feels like he's oppressed, like, like he's missed...like earlier I was saying that he's missed out on things. And he's so very much Americanized. So very, very much. Um, once my parents, um, sort of saw that I was gonna do how they discipline him, do anything and hopefully he was gonna turn out okay.

ARRINGTON: Well, what do you mean...I mean, you seem really Americanized to me.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah.

ARRINGTON: I mean, you've got your Adidas t-shirt on, you know.

BORIBOUNE: Yes. Um...

ARRINGTON: What do you mean by...

BORIBOUNE: I'm very Americanized, but I still have, like, cultural values and morals that were still about my parents. Whether if it was growing up in Buddhist, or Christianity, or religion, um, I still speak the language at home, too. But I do have an accent, too, when I switch. So I have an accent, too, when I speak the language. I can cook the meals, and I still eat the meals, you know. And, you know, I do the family things with my parents. My brother, on the other hand, only speaks English to them. He, um, he has a child out of wedlock. Um, he lives with his girlfriend, and so everything...he is pretty much...it's not that he wants to deny that he has another culture, it's that he's so much instilled in one culture he wants to stay put. He wants to stay in his culture.

ARRINGTON: Is that really hard for your parents?

BORIBOUNE: Yes, it is because...

ARRINGTON: I bet. I bet.

BORIBOUNE: ...um, the Laos...in our culture, um, saving face in family name is very, very important. And I think that's a big difference between the American culture. I've noticed that, too, is that when somebody makes a mistake or does something, um, illegal or something that is gonna disgrace their face like, for example, if a person, um, got married or had a child out of wedlock, people would look at that person, those people, as doing something wrong. But, in our culture, you see it as going back to the parents. Why didn't the parents teach that child what was right and what was wrong? Like that. Like that.

It's more individual...individualization here, but there it's not. It's a whole 39:00culture. It's a family. What...for example, whatever I do, or my brother does, out of...that's immoral to the eyes of people, then it reflects back on my parents. That's how they take it. It's not, it's not...my brother's name is Anchon. It's not Anchon or Noy did something wrong. They look at it and say, "Why didn't their parents teach them any better?" So it's a lot of saving...it's a lot of saving face, you know. The family name is very, very important. And I think that's a big aspect, that's a difference between the American culture and our culture.

ARRINGTON: So do you feel like your parents are embarrassed about your brother in a lot of ways?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. My...I feel like my parents are embarrassed, um, in a lot of ways because now people are gonna look at them, especially our culture, look at them and say, "Why didn't...what did...why didn't anybody..."

ARRINGTON: You mean other Laotians?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. Other Laotians.

ARRINGTON: Your family and...

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. And say, "Why didn't they know any better?" Things like that. So it's not that Anchon did something wrong. It's the mom and dad did something wrong. They didn't help prevent this.

ARRINGTON: Right.

BORIBOUNE: That's the way that it's viewed. And I think it's interesting because here you get the person who actually does the sin or crime gets ridiculed. But for them it's the family, the parents of those...it goes back to the parents. It's just interesting.

ARRINGTON: So what does your mom do now?

BORIBOUNE: She doesn't work. She's not working.

ARRINGTON: She's at home?

BORIBOUNE: She's at home. She still has back problems.

ARRINGTON: Back problems?

BORIBOUNE: Back problems.

ARRINGTON: And your dad still works every day at the...

BORIBOUNE: As a maintenance man.

ARRINGTON: And so you went to college in Indiana. At what school was that?

BORIBOUNE: I went to Vincennes University for two years. That's it. In Vincennes, Indiana.

ARRINGTON: Uh huh.

BORIBOUNE: And then I came to Western for the last...

ARRINGTON: Two years.

BORIBOUNE: ...for the last three years.

ARRINGTON: Three years.

BORIBOUNE: I took five years.

ARRINGTON: And you just finished.

BORIBOUNE: Uh huh. Last May. Not this past May, but May of '98.

ARRINGTON: May of '98. Um, and what was your degree?

BORIBOUNE: It was in Special Ed and Elementary Ed.

ARRINGTON: How did you finally come to choose that without your mother's guidance?

BORIBOUNE: Actually, I think I'm still...I'm still in limbo because I was...

ARRINGTON: No, you've graduated! You're majored!

BORIBOUNE: I graduated and majored, but I'm still, like, I'm very...still not indecisive because, um, I feel like I didn't get a lot of guidance to, like, choose...pick and choose sometimes. Like, for example, we had in our high school, it was sort of advanced because we had career counselors. We had, um, electives that could gear you into something that you'd like. And my parents always wanted me to be the nurse or the doctor, so, of course I had to take all these chemistry and biology, which I was really just average in. Chemistry or 42:00biology and all those medical classes. Anatomy classes. And then, um, then we didn't do good because I didn't like them!

And so once I got to college, and then they...it's not that they couldn't tell me what to do, they didn't tell me what I should major in...then I had a hard time because I was like, "Okay, well now what?" Well, I mean, I always liked working with kids. But, um, so I picked the teaching field because the only thing I saw that you could do was just be a teacher 'cause you wanna work with kids. Now if I look back, and know what know now, somebody else could have said, "You know, you could still work with kids and not have to be a teacher," you know? And I think that I like that in a way, but, I mean, I still like kids.

ARRINGTON: So what I'm hearing you say is that you really wanted your parents' guidance during...

BORIBOUNE: I sort of...

ARRINGTON: ...during college.

BORIBOUNE: During because...

ARRINGTON: Or at least somebody's guidance.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, somebody's guidance because I felt like I wasn't exposed to other things.

ARRINGTON: Yeah. So you were kind of making decisions in the dark.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah.

ARRINGTON: You're not perfectly satisfied with the decisions that you've made.

BORIBOUNE: Right! Uh huh.

ARRINGTON: But you've already invested five years into this degree.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah! So I might as well just stick with it until something else comes along.

ARRINGTON: I heard you say that you're planning on a Masters program perhaps?

BORIBOUNE: Perhaps.

ARRINGTON: What would that...?

BORIBOUNE: I think I would like to do something like, um, student affairs? Student affairs and maybe recreation. I also thought about maybe school counseling, so that might be a little bit...it's still in a school atmosphere working with kids. Just a different field. Things like that.

ARRINGTON: So are you working right now?

BORIBOUNE: Yes. I'm finishing...this is my last week with AmeriCorps. AmeriCorps program.

ARRINGTON: AmeriCorps?

BORIBOUNE: Uh huh. It's just like, uh, it's AmeriCorps sliced Kentucky Reads and 44:00sliced for service learning impacting children's education. That's what the little lingo is, logo is. And, uh...

ARRINGTON: Haven't you been doing this for a whole year?

BORIBOUNE: Uh huh.

ARRINGTON: Okay.

BORIBOUNE: We did for, it's, uh, a year contract. And it's about ready to end this week. About ready to end. And then, um, hopefully I'll be able to teach in August. I'd like to teach.

ARRINGTON: Yeah. I was gonna say...have you put in applications and done interviews and stuff?

BORIBOUNE: I applied to teach. I did some interviews and, uh, now I'm just waiting for somebody to say, "Hey!"

ARRINGTON: "Hey! Come work here!"

BORIBOUNE: "Hi!" So I'm doing that, and I'll probably go to school part-time as well. And I...

ARRINGTON: On a Masters? Working on a Masters?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. And I have not became an American citizen yet.

ARRINGTON: Yeah?

BORIBOUNE: No.

ARRINGTON: Are you serious?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, my parents have. My parents are, um, American citizens. And so 45:00is my brother. My brother is. I just, I think, procrastinated. But I don't see why. I have a green card that that gives you life here, you know? And I really don't understand the concept of letting me be in the military and not...

ARRINGTON: You...I hadn't thought of that!

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. I'm going on...

ARRINGTON: How funny!

BORIBOUNE: ...I'm going on seven and a half years with the military.

ARRINGTON: You've been in the National Guard for seven and a half years? How old are you? 24?

BORIBOUNE: 24. Yeah. I came in at 17. Went in at 17.

ARRINGTON: That's hilarious!

BORIBOUNE: Isn't it?

ARRINGTON: And that's not even an official citizen!

BORIBOUNE: No! That's just my green card! It's so funny! So, um, every single piece of paper I have to fill out for anything has to have an alien card.

ARRINGTON: Yeah.

BORIBOUNE: No person has that, you know! But, I mean, it's just strange.

ARRINGTON: But are you planning on becoming a...

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, I'm planning to become an American citizen. It's just that, I think it's, um, sort of ridiculous that I have to pay almost 300 dollars for...to take a test that, uh, the average American on the street wouldn't know. 46:00I mean, the test is really detailed.

ARRINGTON: Like what?

BORIBOUNE: Like "What do the 13 stars and stripes on the flag stand for?" "What are the 13..."

ARRINGTON: You're kidding!

BORIBOUNE: Yeah, "What are the 13 colonies?" "Who's the fifth president?"

ARRINGTON: You're kidding.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. Things like that. But they give you a packet that you have to study. There's, like, maybe 200 questions that are possibles, and then, uh, there's an oral part, and there's a written part. And there's an oral and a written. And the oral part is they just want you to read, like, three sentences to make sure your English is somewhat...or you can read some English. And the written part is to have, like, 25 questions out of the 200 in the packet that you just multiple choice. And then you have one sentence you have to write. One sentence. And my mother had failed it once. She's failed it once. She's gonna...she can get American citizenship through my father, but I think she's determined to get it by herself. And I...she forgot to cross the "T" in "president." And so she didn't get it.

ARRINGTON: She failed because she'd forgotten to cross...

BORIBOUNE: ...to cross the "T" in "president."

ARRINGTON: On her sentence?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. "Bill Clinton is the President of the United States." And she forgot the "T" in "states." One of the "T"s in "states."

ARRINGTON: They're that picky?

BORIBOUNE: Yeah.

ARRINGTON: She failed the test because...

BORIBOUNE: Yeah.

ARRINGTON: So...oh, my word.

BORIBOUNE: And so it's a long process. You, um, you send in your information, and you have, depending on where you claim residency, um, that's where it...like here, if you live in Kentucky, you either go to Louisville for this region. If it was in Bowling Green, I'd go to Louisville, but you have to go, like, three times. The first time would be, um, fingerprints. It'd be fingerprints, to take the test, and if you pass the test, the swearing in. You go back to swearing in. So it's a whole year-long procedure. And I guess, I think there are so many people who want to get their citizenship that it takes them that long.

ARRINGTON: Well that is kind of ridiculous. I mean, just that you've lived here for 20 years, and, you know...

BORIBOUNE: I've never, I've never...

ARRINGTON: ...that's funny.

BORIBOUNE: I've never needed to be a citizen.

ARRINGTON: Yeah.

BORIBOUNE: And I never think about it. But I can't do anything, like, um, I couldn't do the Peace Corps because I had to be an American citizen. So I couldn't do anything that was grant-funded out of the U.S., research projects or anything like that because of that. And I think I need to do that soon. But...I know, it's funny. It's funny in a way because you think of all the things that surpass being a United citizen, you know. My English is good.

ARRINGTON: Your English is perfect!

BORIBOUNE: And so...

ARRINGTON: And just the fact that you've been in the National Guard. That's just...

BORIBOUNE: And I couldn't...

ARRINGTON: Yeah. That's...that's wild. So when your parents came here, did you feel like...or do you think that your parents think that they were making a big 49:00sacrifice to choose to come, or to choose to leave their homeland?

BORIBOUNE: I think, I think that they do. And they have failed...and they have...and I think that they still do. Because they have made adjustments to live here, you know?

ARRINGTON: Yeah.

BORIBOUNE: It's a big step, and I think if they...and my mother tells me this, too, if they absolutely knew that my brother and I were going to be okay, I think they'd go back.

ARRINGTON: Yeah.

BORIBOUNE: They really would because they miss out on a lot that's happened over there. And they still know the culture because they were, uh, they were in their mid-20s when they came here. They were in their mid-20s when they first came here. So and they miss out on a lot.

ARRINGTON: So, um, do you feel...do you think your parents think that they came for your sake and for you and your brother? Like, to provide you with a good life...

BORIBOUNE: I think that...

ARRINGTON: ...somewhere else that's not in a war country, but, you know...

BORIBOUNE: I think that, um, I don't think my father really had a choice. And I...honestly, I think he did it for the whole family and not just for the kids.

ARRINGTON: Not just the kids.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. Because if he could do it again, he'd probably keep us right there. But, um, no. I think he did it for the family, knowing how it was over there. And I don't think he could have convinced me or anyone else to come over. And that's why we didn't have more family come over. 'Cause we don't have any...my parents have a huge family. My dad is, like, he has eight brothers and sisters. My mom has five brothers and sisters. And none of them came except my one aunt who had already been in a refugee camp. And so I think my father made the decision to come here for the family, not so much looking out for his children, but I think our family. And I think he saw it as a benefit because we 51:00really couldn't do much more than fish or farm, and my mom only baked goose for the local market, so...

ARRINGTON: And so he recognized that there were a lot more opportunities...

BORIBOUNE: Somewhere.

ARRINGTON: ...somewhere else.

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. Somewhere else.

ARRINGTON: Europe or...

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. And so...

ARRINGTON: ...in a place that was, um, first, not being destroyed by war. And second, had some kind of industrial foundation.

BORIBOUNE: Foundation to make something out of yourself. Yeah. They thought that was the way to go. I don't know. Sometimes I wonder how it would have been if we never came, you know, the choices that we had. And, um, it's strange because, um, when people...here in the U.S. it's a big issue when students, or kids, go 52:00through that teenage year, like adolescence. Well, so much of our culture over there is everybody does the same thing so you don't have those choices. And I think that's what's unique about it because here teenagers have all these choices whether or not to do this, this, and this. Over there you don't have a choice. You all do it, and it's parallel.

Over here you have all these little roads that you can take on a journey to adulthood or whatever the adolescence, you know. The hormonal changes and stuff like that, there you don't have it. I mean, I'm sure you might have it, but everything's on the same guidelines. You go in the same parallel. Here you get all these little branches like a tree. There you've just got straight rows. And, uh, my parents were...I don't want to say it...my parents were arranged 53:00marriage. Yeah. They were arranged. And they are third cousins by marriage. They are that. And they're holding up fine. They're holding up fine, you know? So I think that's pretty much it. But, uh, I don't...they're not really pressured by society very much. They are to a certain extent, like, uh, how my father feels about obligation. So they are. But the other pressures of trying to compete for having the best house or...they're not really concerned.

ARRINGTON: Not into that.

BORIBOUNE: No. They're not really into that.

ARRINGTON: Well, how do you feel about all of it? I mean, you said that sometimes you think about how life would have been had you not moved. But what's your feeling? I mean, do you feel like you've had a fairly happy life? And you 54:00feel like you've got, you know, a bright future, and you're kind of happy about where you're going in general?

BORIBOUNE: Um, I think, um, sometimes I wish I would have maybe been there...wish I could have stayed there longer. To know a little bit more about...I mean, I know how the culture is from my own close-knit family, you know?

ARRINGTON: Family.

BORIBOUNE: But I wish I would have, uh, learned to read the language. I don't know how to read the language, but I speak it, and so I think that was one of the things. And I also, um, I don't know how to say it. I lost my train of thought. I just wish I would have been able to know a lot more history and background so that way I could tell my kids. Because I'm afraid that if I do have kids, that I won't be able to explain everything that they want to know. So...

ARRINGTON: And everything that they might want to know about their heritage, their cultural roots.

BORIBOUNE: So I think that's, so I wish I would have known just a little bit more. And not so much, uh, what I see, but I wish I could have saw the whole picture. And I haven't been back to see my grandparents since I've been here just 'cause it's so hard when you work with college schedules sometimes. My parents went back for the first time, like, five years...three years ago. Three years ago, so they had a good time. Sorta hard to put in six weeks.

ARRINGTON: I bet!

BORIBOUNE: They went for six weeks.

ARRINGTON: Well, when you have eight brothers and sisters, you've gotta visit all of them!

BORIBOUNE: Yeah. They're all still around in the same about area.

ARRINGTON: Great.

BORIBOUNE: The country is still the same. It's still third-world, you know, and 56:00the cash crop is just rice. And they make do, and it's still poor. You know, I think it is still Communist.

ARRINGTON: So, but do you feel happy to be in the United States?

BORIBOUNE: Oh, I feel happy because of what, I think, um, I don't know any better, you know? I don't know any better, so I don't really know not what it feels like. I think I'm the type of person who just has to take it in a positive sense, you know? 'Cause you can't change the things in the past. You want to make better ones in the future, so...

ARRINGTON: Um...