Oral History Interview with Boonsong Areephanthu

ERIN ROTH: Can we start? Okay, well as I said my name is Erin Roth.

BOONSONG AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm.

ROTH: And um, today is July 1st, 1998.

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm.

ROTH: And we're at the 11th Street--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah

ROTH: Is that the official name?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Adult--Adult Learning Center.

ROTH: Adult Learning Center. And can you say your name? I don't know how to say your last name (laughs).

AREEPHANTHU: Boonsong???? Areepahnthu.

ROTH: Areepanthu. Okay. I think I have the spelling written down someplace. Yeah, that's--

AREEPHANTHU: Aree--Areepanthu. H is silent.

ROTH: Okay. Um, well, let me first start with when you came--

AREEPHANTHU: Doctor Arrepanthu, that is.

ROTH: Yes. Okay.

AREEPHANTHU: That's fine.

ROTH: Would you rather be called "Dr. Areephanthu" or--

AREEPHANTHU: No. Ju--just Boosting ???

ROTH: Okay (laughs).

AREEPHANTHU: Nothing else.

ROTH: Okay (laughs).

AREEPHANTHU: But just to tell you the title, the professional title. That's it. Yeah.

ROTH: Mhmm. When--where, where you came before--where were you living before you 1:00came to Bowling Green, and when you came to Bowling Green?

AREEPHANTHU: Okay. I uh, have been moving around quite a bit.

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Partially, I, I like to do that. And another part is that I was in the Thai, uh, diplomatic, uh service. Diplomatic Corps. Now. I have lived--I lived in um, mainly Egypt. Therefore Arabic is my second language.

ROTH: Yeah.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, I learned very early on before I went to Egypt.

ROTH: Did you move there with your family or were you an adult?

AREEPHANTHU: No, I went alone. Yeah. I met my wife in Egypt, there. Then uh, after that we went to Lebanon, you know? The embassy there, Beirut, Lebanon. And 2:00also after that I went to, uh, uh Libya. Libya. Yeah.

ROTH: Is this all before the Vietnam War? I don't know how that affected Thailand and--

AREEPHANTHU: It's uh, during, I think. Yeah, during. Yeah. And then I--we also went to uh, France, Germany, England, and then here, yeah. What--what's your question? The war, Vietnam--

ROTH: Yeah, I was just trying to get the time frame--

AREEPHANTHU: Time frame. Yeah

ROTH: --of where you were.

AREEPHANTHU: It just, uh, during. During the Vietnam War. Yeah. In the 60s, 70s. 60s, early, 70s, yeah.

ROTH: Mhmm. So what--what was your role? You were a diplomat?

AREEPHANTHU: When, uh, yeah. A pri--uh, initially I was working with the Thai embassies. But after that I, uh, resigned, you know? And then I left the embassy. I was working in a Libyan university-- _____--before coming to United States.

ROTH: Were you teaching at the university?

AREEPHANTHU: Yes.

ROTH: And what did you teach there?

AREEPHANTHU: Uh mostly, uh, English. Yeah. They uh, need a lot of English teachers (laughs). Yeah.

ROTH: So, um, you hadn't lived in Thailand for quite a while then. AREEPHANTHU: 4:00Quite a while.

ROTH: How many years before?

AREEPHANTHU: Now it's about six--no forty, forty years.

ROTH: Forty years?

AREEPHANTHU: Right, away from home. I lived there twenty years. Yeah. That's all together sixty years that I am.

ROTH: Okay, so you lived there twenty --when you were twenty years old then you--

AREEPHANTHU: Right, I left Thailand, right.

ROTH: Why did you leave? Was it a conscious choice?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, it is uh--I like to see the world, you know? One thing. And also, connected with the uh, the work I started there. And then I also had some Arabic knowledge. And it can be used in Egypt.

ROTH: And why did you choose Arabic?

AREEPHANTHU: Okay, I'll tell you story because I was born and raised as a Muslim. But now I am Christian and I accepted Jesus Christ and everything. And uh, Islam make family, a Muslim. Uh, you see actually the word "Muslim," only 5:00the people--if you use it as an adjective, you use "Islamic" not "Muslim." So an English speaker they use differently, of course. Now, um, that--before I even read any language, I war reading Arabic first. Four years old I was sent to read the Quran. Yeah, therefore that, that was my--

(00:05:26)

ROTH: Were there schools there for children--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: Muslim--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ROTH: --for Muslim children? Did I use that right? (laughs)

AREEPHANTHU: Oh, yeah, it's--yeah yeah.

ROTH: Or Islamic Children?

AREEPHANTHU: Islamic children, doesn't matter.

ROTH: Okay (laughs).

AREEPHANTHU: Muslim. If, if--the people they are Muslims, yes. And uh that--it is everywhere. You know, you'd be surprised.

ROTH: Yeah, you think of Thailand--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: --I think of Buddhism--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, Buddhism.

ROTH: --more.

AREEPHANTHU: There are some Christians also. Actually I went to, uh, Presbyterian school when I was in Thailand. Believe or not.

ROTH: Really?

AREEPHANTHU: Yes.

ROTH: What did your parents do? Were they--

AREEPHANTHU: They have some kind of business. Exporting or something

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Small business.

ROTH: So, was it pretty important to them that you get a good education? Or--

AREEPHANTHU: You see, in, um, in the developing countries education is their life. Very important. Very important. Yeah. And they will sacrifice for, for education. Very important, yeah. And, you know, by--uh, moving--being educate--educated person, if you get a degree, you move to the middle class, regardless of your financial status.

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: Did your parents make a lot of sacrifices themselves?

AREEPHANTHU: They, they do. Yeah. It, it, it--they, they, they did. Yes.

ROTH: In what ways? Or--

AREEPHANTHU: Well, it's, uh--____ they send my brother to study in India because we also have relatives in India, see? Northern part of India. They send my, my older brother and my other brother to educate in India and all those--that's a little bit of sacrifice. But, but it's not, uh, mainly they're not doing for that, you know? Yeah.

ROTH: Are your siblings, are any of them still in Thailand, or--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, mostly in Thailand and in India. Yeah. Also in the Middle 8:00East. Kuwait. Some of my nephews and nieces in Kuwait.

ROTH: Growing up Muslim, then, in a primarily Buddhist country, was that difficult? Or--

AREEPHANTHU: It is, it is. Yeah. It is difficult. But, uh--and uh, it also, you, you do have some support ____ Yeah. You, you, never have a complete, uniform religion in a way. Not even here, you know? When I first came, uh--because in 9:00Egypt, uh Christian they call mostly here. Because they're not going to ask you if you're Baptist, Methodist, and this and that, you know? Either you're Muslim or, or Christian, see? But here, one time I, I told them I'm Christian and they say, "undecided" (laughs). Yeah.

ROTH: Unde--undeci--

AREEPHANTHU: Undecided, no denomination. Yes. Right.

ROTH: So, the time that you've spent away from Thailand--

AREEPHANTHU: Mmm.

ROTH: How do you, do you identify yourself mostly as Thai? Or do--how do you--where do you--

AREEPHANTHU: But, now I am U.S. citizen, you see? I go by U.S. Right. That is always our dream and our love. Yeah. And this is our home. Not only, uh--Bowling Green is our home. I have been offered few opportunities now to go to 10:00Carbondale, Southern Illinois, teaching. And another time, Seattle. But we, my family refused to go, so we got stuck here. But it's okay, we like it.

(00:10:15)

ROTH: You said, "It's our dream," is it, you mean, your wife and your--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, to be here in the United States. Yeah. Right. Because, uh, not only better in every aspect, you know, in United States. Also uh, we love it here. Yeah. But like I uh, in the Middle East, in, in term of jobs, you know, it, it's very good. But the living is, uh--you have to go back, um, almost, uh, 11:00a century (laughs). But, but of course, it always contrasts, you know? Not, not exactly the same. The land of contrast in Egypt. You have very primitive and you have very modern. Rich and poor. Yeah.

ROTH: So, were you then--did you study in Egypt before you--

AREEPHANTHU: Some. Some, yeah. I studied in Thailand also. And I continued in Egypt, yes. I did. I got my BS in, in Egypt. And then I also went to England for my Masters degree, you know? Came here for my doctorate degree.

ROTH: What, what are your degrees in?

AREEPHANTHU: In uh, psychology and high education administration. Right.

ROTH: Um, so you came to the United States--what, what year was that, and did you come straight from--

AREEPHANTHU: The uh, late 70s, yeah.

ROTH: Did you come from--were you in England at the time?

AREEPHANTHU: Uh, from, from Northern Ireland.

ROTH: Northern Ireland?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: You've been around! (laughs)

AREEPHANTHU: Probably (laughs). But, yeah. We lived there for one year. We had a lot of friends over there. Very friendly people, Ireland, yeah.

ROTH: Were you working there or were you still--.

AREEPHANTHU: No. I, we, just uh, have a break. A break (laughs). Yeah.

ROTH: Were your children--

AREEPHANTHU: I did some study--I'm sorry--

ROTH: That's okay.

AREEPHANTHU: --for, prepare for my doctorate degree there. A little bit, yeah. My children, you said? My son, uh, when we came here he was, what? Uh, five 13:00years old. He went to--and my daughters, uh, three, four years. And he completed here at uh, Warren Central. Went to premed at, at Western for four years. And then he went to U of L. And he has trained another three years for internal medicine, but he's practicing in um, South Carolina now. Yeah. My daughters just graduated from Western, two of them. Yeah.

ROTH: Does she know what she wants to do?

AREEPHANTHU: One of is in, uh, broadcasting. She used to work with Bar--Barbara Deeb.

ROTH: Oh yeah.

AREEPHANTHU: Quite a bit.

ROTH: On, on television?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, yeah. But they only hire for part time, you know? But she cannot afford that, she had to go and work with the campaign world right now. And the other one is working with the nursing. Nursing, yeah.

ROTH: So you have three--two girls and one boy?

AREEPHANTHU: Two girls and one boy, yes.

ROTH: The boy's the oldest?

AREEPHANTHU: The oldest.

ROTH: So, when you came from Northern Ireland, you came to the United States then to study?

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: First.

AREEPHANTHU: Primarily. We were thinking of going back then, too, you know? And then--

ROTH: Back to where?

AREEPHANTHU: To Middle East. Because since my wife is from Egypt, you know? And uh, I was even more familiar with the Middle East than Thailand. Yeah.

ROTH: Why, why was that? Her fam--you were closer to her family? Or--

AREEPHANTHU: No, because I spent my uh, uh, more, more of the adult life in Egypt. More than in Thailand. Thailand was childhood and, yeah. Right. Egypt 15:00also very friendly, you know? And uh, no crimes, no--there are a lot of theft, of course. And cheating and all those, you know? But uh, serious crime, no.

(00:15:30)

ROTH: So you're intention was to come to study here in the United States--

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right.

ROTH: --but then go back to the Middle East?

AREEPHANTHU: United States always the most advanced, you know, the high degrees. Everybody seeking the degrees from the United Staes. You'd be surprised at how many--and some of them have to spend a fortune, you know, to, to be able to come 16:00here. And yet, when they return it's worth it, see? Both in financially, or uh, status-ly, yeah.

ROTH: So where did you study at?

AREEPHANTHU: Huh?

ROTH: Where did you go then? To study?

AREEPHANTHU: We came here to study.

ROTH: To Western Ke--

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. We--when I was in Libya I happened to come across one of the--uh, the professor from Western, see? And he recommend "you go straight to Western." And he asked his, uh family to wait for me at the airport and all help me to get apartment and everything. So we lived here. Mhmm. But, Western they do 17:00not have a PhD. Partially I did here and the other part in, at Peabody College.

ROTH: Where is that?

AREEPHANTHU: Peabody College, part of Vanderbilt now.

ROTH: Oh, okay.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. It was uh, um, they called it Peabody College for Teachers. You have not heard about, yeah.

ROTH: Well, yeah, well....

AREEPHANTHU: At, uh, 21st Street. And being a small private school, and they could not survive, you know, at most with Vanderbilt.

ROTH: (Talking to someone else) That's okay.

(Conversation between Boonsong and somebody else)

AREEPHANTHU: Sorry, maybe you have to erase that.

ROTH: Oh, that's alright. Um, so you were talking about studying at Peabody but you were living here in Bowling Green.

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right. Commuting. My family refused to depart from Bowling Green.

ROTH: Really?

AREEPHANTHU: So good, yeah.

ROTH: What is it that they liked about it, or?

AREEPHANTHU: Well, they just used to it, you know? They know the people, they have jobs, and something like that. Yeah.

ROTH: So when you first moved here did you study first at Western?

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right.

ROTH: Okay. And then the PhD.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Then uh, yeah, accumulated the credit hours and transferred 19:00to Peabody.

ROTH: Mhmm. So, um, it sounds like this was a good choice at least you guys seem to be happy with--your family...

AREEPHANTHU: Well...We have to be doing something in life, you know (laughs). Life has to go on, and what we think that--is never be 100% fulfillment or satisfactory. But uh, we, we are content. Content. Yeah.

ROTH: What year did you move here?

AREEPHANTHU: Sorry?

ROTH: What year did you move here to the--Bowling Green?

AREEPHANTHU: Uh, 1976. Yeah. 1976. Yeah. Back when we started with Marty to form 20:00the--what is it?--uh, the refugee assistance office, you know? Here in Bowling Green. I think 1976.

(00:20:06)

ROTH: Oh really?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, Martha Ann Deputy.

ROTH: Say that again.

AREEPHANTHU: You have not met her?

ROTH: Yeah, no I haven't been there.

AREEPHANTHU: Martha Ann Deputy.

ROTH: Um, Martha Ann--she's been them that long?

AREEPHANTHU: That long.

ROTH: Really?

AREEPHANTHU: That long. Yes, yes.

ROTH: So the two of you started the...

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: Or helped start.

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: So what was it like back then? Were there many refugees coming in? I mean, and where, where were they coming from?

AREEPHANTHU: They were start coming. We have the Loasxians and the Cambodians. They (undeterminable) coming. We then--we used to have--we had over a hundred, yeah, already by '78--'77, '78. Yeah.

ROTH: So while you were going to school you were also kind of helping out with...

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right.

ROTH: What was your role in the development of the refugee center?

AREEPHANTHU: See I, I do a lot of counseling for them. And the refugees are the unprepared, uh, immigrant, see? Involuntarily departed from their land and unprepared and, and uh, no equipment. And uh by moving from one culture to the other culture the person will have some kind of culture shock, you know? And then a person goes through stages of euphoria, culture shock, adjustment, acceptance, and all those. And some people can affect more than the others, you know? And when it affected you you just feel like, uh, when you are in culture 22:00shock you think nothing is good here, see? There were reminiscent of their old countries and all those, and you see, mainly the communication, the body language and a lot of things. Yeah. And these people also have some kind of, uh, the post-war syndrome, you know? Yeah. Through the--a lot of violence, killing, loss of relatives. Yeah.

ROTH: So you're--your role, I guess, to counsel people.

AREEPHANTHU: Counselor, yes.

ROTH: And to help them through that change.

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: Because you've been through it some.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: Well...

AREEPHANTHU: Not, not quite as bad. I've been through--you're right, in term of culture shock. Culture adjustment and, yeah, yeah. And I study a little bit of those, you know. Psychology and counseling. Western has very good counseling department.

ROTH: Oh yeah?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. And I work with, um, the Asian community a little bit. With Dr. Cravens, they have Asian, uh, Studies. Something else. Asian Studies, or, yeah at Western. Western is doing real, real well with the Asian--especially China.

ROTH: Mhmm

AREEPHANTHU: You know the exchange student or....

ROTH: It sounds like you kind of came at a really good time, at least for the community here, and kind of help people.

AREEPHANTHU: Well, I like to um, yeah, do something for the community we, we appreciated so much, you know? Yeah. Something return, as they say if we can, when we can. Yeah. But now I always on-call for the court, you know, if they need someone to translate or something. The drivers office--driver license. The court and doctors' offices and clinics.

ROTH: Yeah, if I remember right you speak quite a few languages.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, a little bit, yeah. But, but not, nothing (laughs)--it's not very good, but anyway I can get by. I can make it understandable, yeah.

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: So, some of the--I'm just wondering if you could describe what it was like 25:00back in the late '70s here...

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: ...and kind of the changes that you've seen over time.

(00:25:00)

AREEPHANTHU: Right. Sometime we uh, do not notice it very much, you know, how it--but it, it has, uh, progressed quite a bit. The 70s and 90s now, late 90s. Yeah then uh--but Western, because of uh, at Western Kentucky University you have the foreign students, you see? I have worked with the student office a bit during, uh, who's that, uh, Bob Wooster was doing that. He, he started you know? He was the pioneer of student affairs--foreign student affairs. And uh, it uh--there are more and more uh, of the refugees and immigrant in Bowling Green, 26:00see? But they're still coming, the Bosnians are still coming. And uh, but somehow uh, the--however the, the people of Bowling Green accept the uh, immigrants very well I think. It surprise me, you know?

ROTH: Has it always been like that or did you feel....

AREEPHANTHU: It has been always like that. Always. Yeah, yeah. Because I, when I was working with the refugees--and they always request for the, the workers, see? And uh, most of the Cambodians and the Laotians they are farmers. And in 27:00this area they have a lot of farming, you know? Tobacco and all those things--stripping planting, yeah.

ROTH: So, that felt familiar to them, is that...

AREEPHANTHU: It, yeah, familiar to them. It is. Also, although the, the system is different but the can adjust to them, yeah, yeah.

ROTH: So did some of them start farming, then right away? Or, or maybe not right away...

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah they help in the farm, on the farm, yes. Almost right away yes, yes, yeah. Almost right away. We used to have uh, a refugee helping Dr. Deputy with the, with the cattle, you know. His cattle, his farm and others, too. Yeah, yeah.

ROTH: So was your, your job kind of to help the communication between the farmers...

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right, right.

ROTH: ...and the refugees?

AREEPHANTHU: The employers and workers, too. We have to look for job for them and---also with the, with the uh, all the necessities like uh, they have to have social security card, they have to be tested for their physical examination, you know. And uh, looking for job, learning English, and all those stuff, yeah. But they're still doing that right now. And some, they send some of the student here to--for English as a second language. Yeah, yeah.

ROTH: Was it ever kind of overwhelming to try and figure out how to work through all of the bureaucracy of getting all the right cards--I mean in the beginning. 29:00I mean know you've had this experience, but in the begging was that....

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, it's always hard. Always in the sense that uh, they uh--we are trying, they are trying to, we are trying to help them to be self-sufficient, you know. To self uh, self help. But it almost um, like taking care of babies, you see. Because they don't know where to go what to do, yeah. It's hard initially. It take years, yeah. Right.

ROTH: The first group to come, Cambodians and Laotians is that right?

AREEPHANTHU: The Laotians and then the Cambodians, yeah. Then the Vietnamese started coming, yeah.

ROTH: And was there any sort of um, organized effort to keep people kind of--because there are different languages and different cultures.

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: I mean, was it just kind of a mixture of people?

AREEPHANTHU: It, it, that is another problem, you know, because it's uh--they especially the Vietnamese and the rest are not very much. Because they uh, tend---because it has some kind of political background, you know. And uh, they, they seem to blame the Vietnamese for brining communist to the area and starting, stir-up the trouble there. You know. Yeah.

ROTH: So there's a little animosity or?

AREEPHANTHU: Some, some. Yeah, yeah.

ROTH: And that still exists today?

AREEPHANTHU: Uh, mildly. Or not as much, but you can still notice from, you know--but sometime they don't show. They try to, not to make it a big case of 31:00it, yeah. Yeah. They try to avoid each other, you know.

ROTH: Really?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Right.

ROTH: So there isn't...

AREEPHANTHU: Some, there's not generalization, you know. There are some good friends among these, yeah. And they, they know that they all will be Americans, you know, new Americans and, and they just have to live together. Yeah. Right.

ROTH: So the Southeast Asians, are there any other groups that would be--Thai?

AREEPHANTHU: Uh, Thai...

ROTH: I know there are a couple Thai families here.

AREEPHANTHU: Is that right? Uh, yeah.

ROTH: Um, Sexa? No. Yeah, the owners of the Thai--Taste of Thai.

AREEPHANTHU: Oh, Taste of Thai, yeah.

ROTH: And Jake's Oriental....

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right, right.

ROTH: That's his father.

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right, they're from Northeast of Thailand. There, close to 32:00Laos, you know. More of the Laos culture. But, but they're Thai, yeah. Yeah they are. I know them. But they are not refugees.

ROTH: Right.

AREEPHANTHU: And they were prepared to come here. They studied English and they are a little bit know what's going on.

ROTH: Yeah, they came from Chicago.

AREEPHANTHU: Right. They lived there for a while.

ROTH: So they were from the northeast part of, or northwest? Sorry, of Thailand.

AREEPHANTHU: Uh, northeast.

ROTH: Northeast.

AREEPHANTHU: Northeast.

ROTH: And where, where in Thailand is your family from?

AREEPHANTHU: North.

ROTH: The north.

BA; North of Thailand. Chiangmai, the culture north in Thailand.

ROTH: Say that again.

AREEPHANTHU: Chiang. C-H-I-A-N-G-M-A-I. Chiangmai. Yeah. Right. Chiangmai.

ROTH: So...

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, Chiangmai, one word, yes.

ROTH: One word.

AREEPHANTHU: That's alright.

ROTH: It makes a difference, then, in terms of cultures to where--because Thailand is a big country, isn't it?

AREEPHANTHU: It's about the size of Texas.

ROTH: Yeah.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Also overpopulated. 50 million.

ROTH: 50 million? Wow.

AREEPHANTHU: Size of Texas.

ROTH: Wow.

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm. That's another problem the uh, modern world have to tackle, you know.

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Over population. That's why China has very strong uh, policy--one child per family regardless.

ROTH: Mhmm. So um, can you estimate which group there are more people from--here 34:00in Bowling Green?

AREEPHANTHU: Now would be Europeans. Bosnians.

ROTH: Bosnians.

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm. Bosnians.

ROTH: There are more families--Bosnians than...

AREEPHANTHU: Uh, yes.

ROTH: ...any one Southeast Asian group?

AREEPHANTHU: There are more right now. And uh, the Vietnamese uh, the Laotian and the uh, Cambodians have ceased to come here quite a while back, you see. There are no more, they are more or less normalized in their country. They are not qualified as refugees anymore. Before the Vietnamese, those who were in prison during the war, anytime they are released...

(recording cuts out)

(00:35:00)

ROTH: Alright, you were saying that they Vietnamese that are released from prison camps.

AREEPHANTHU: Prison camps.

ROTH: Are they still in prison?

AREEPHANTHU: They were lately, but now the last family just arrived, I think. Marty Deputy, the director, said they are no longer have the new Vietnamese refugees coming in.

ROTH: Okay.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. But maybe one or two left in the, somewhere, that might be qualified to come. But a lot of Bosnians uh, are coming. And they also had um, 36:00the former Soviet Union's people, you know. Even, they have the fallen into be a refugee if the uh, Armenian happen to be left in Azerbaijan, which is one of the republics of the Soviet Union. Then the were, they didn't belong in Azerbaijan. They are qualified as refugee. So we have quite a few of Ukrainians here in Bowling Green. Ukrainians. Uh, Armenians. Yeah. And uh, yeah.

ROTH: And there again they're people from East, Eastern Europe.

AREEPHANTHU: Europe.

ROTH: But yet they don't all speak the same language necessarily.

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: It's kind of similar, I guess, to they way the Southeast Asian...

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right.

ROTH: Are there any dissensions between those groups, or...

AREEPHANTHU: Right. Somehow the Ukrainian, Armenian they, they were, they had uh, Russian education, you see. They use Russian. For the Bosnian--actually Bosnian is part of Yugoslavia before, see.

ROTH: Right.

AREEPHANTHU: And the language was Yugoslavic. But they call it Bosnian, they call Croatian, and, but very similar.

ROTH: Mmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm.

ROTH: Are there Croatians, then, here too?

AREEPHANTHU: Croatians, too. Yeah.

ROTH: Now. Um. How has there adjustment been as far as you can see?

AREEPHANTHU: Right. They uh, in general they uh, doing quite well, you know. Especially now economy is good and plenty of jobs available. And I think most of them are doing fine. But, you know, the former Soviet Union, when they first came they really have a hard time. Because um, when you are refugees and you don't speak the language, whatever degree you have had, you know, it doesn't mean anything and you cannot insist on having the job you used to have at home. And first of all. And secondly, they were taken care by the government everything, you know. They have a free apartment, have job always waiting for them, free to go to the doctors and everything. But here--one time they were 39:00assisted by a public assistance like welfare, food stamp, and they were--they're thinking that that's their rights. Their entitlement. They don't want to quite that, you know. And, and they have a hard time to learn that that's not it, that's for the needy and you can do much better, go out to work. Yeah they learned the hard way.

ROTH: So, do you think most of them will then eventually get off of that assistance.

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right, most of them. And nowadays uh, since the reforming, you know, of the public assistance--they have to go to work. You see, the first group when they came in the 70s--mid or late 70s--they had the chance not to work for two years, be assisted by the refugee funds. It just like welfare, food stamp anyway. It's maybe the same fund. And then they reduced to one year, reduced to six months. But at present time, as you step, you set your foot in 40:00United State, if there's a job you cannot refuse. If there's no job and some circumstances you cannot work, then you can draw, yeah, the assistance. Unless you have to go straight to work. You speak English, you don't speak English, doesn't matter to go to work. I think this, this is okay, you know. They should be supporting themselves. Yeah.

(00:40:26)

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. And they should make time to study English.

ROTH: Mhmm. Now why, why Bowling Green? Why not some other big city? Why are people choosing to come here? Or are they not choosing, is it kind of being decided for them?

AREEPHANTHU: Okay, I'll tell you why. For the refugee, right, in term of refugee. But, but if you talking about foreign students, Western is, is also well-known, you see. And recognized by--you see, not all the universities in the 41:00United States are recognized in the certain country. They tell you, "go, you go to this university that," and it's selected. Now, for the refugee, among the thing, we have had very good refugee center assistance here, see. And Marty never turn anybody down. Anybody apply--but also, it is, they have, they come with them some fund, too.

ROTH: They come with what?

AREEPHANTHU: Their money, see. Because everybody is, is having about or has about $500 with, with each person. And they can use that money for uh, a settlement. You know, like uh, apartment rental and some food. It's not too bad. And since Marty, she uh very much knowledgeable in this way, you know. And she, 42:00she accept--that is one thing. Once you have their relatives and friends here, the rest like to come and join, and reunite with their friends and families. That's how it grow. And then um, the job market is very good. You know, you can find work. And um, the people of, and the authorities, the officers, the government, they are very nice to the refugees. You wouldn't believe that, you know, how nice there are. Yeah. We tend to think this is a little bit hard to, for the minority. No, it's not to the refugees. I'll, I'll show you the, I'll tell you the example. One time, one of the Laos man, he was driving only with a 43:00permit, see. And he--I don't know what happened--he did not turn the light on at nighttime. The police came and, and check on him and then he only has a permit. He was not supposed to drive at all. However, he send this man to court and the judge said, "Okay, you go back when you get the license come and report to me." That's it. No punishment, no imprisonment. He should be in prison even, you know. And, and deny driving for a period of time, right? How, how, leniency, helpful. Yeah.

ROTH: Do you have any, any guesses as to why maybe this is a fairly friendly place to people?

AREEPHANTHU: Well they are good people (laughs). I mean they're friendly, but, but understand, they understand that the refugees---you remember one time there 44:00was a very serious case of the uh, killing of the, the Hispanic. Guatemala, Honduras? I don't know. The man in the night club?

ROTH: Oh.

AREEPHANTHU: At a night club.

ROTH: Um, how many years ago? I've only lived here....

AREEPHANTHU: No, just last year.

ROTH: Oh, last year?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, yeah.

ROTH: It was here?

AREEPHANTHU: Was here in Bowling Green. They uh, the bouncer kill one Hispanic.

ROTH: Oh, I didn't know that.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. And the, they court of law really strict and punished that man and tell him that, "You know this man he is earning his living and he send the money to his family. Whereas you have the family, you don't even pay child support." Something like that. But that is really, to me, that is uh, very uh, I don't know what to explain it. Um, very you know, distinct, distinctive. 45:00Remarkable. You know? That uh, he take the case very seriously and, and justice prevail and you know? It just real, real good isn't it?

(00:45:16)

ROTH: Yeah, I mean, I guess the example's been that...

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm, mhmm. I heard that in California sometime the minority they have some cases--I, I don't know how far it's true, they said the police even ignore it, they don't even care. But I don't know how far it's true. According to those who move. But then again there are too many of them there, you know. Who's going to take care of whom? See. Maybe that...

ROTH: So maybe it's better that there's so...

AREEPHANTHU: More--a smaller group.

ROTH: Mmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Yeah.

ROTH: What were the circumstances to that case?

AREEPHANTHU: Um. I don't know. This man, he's Hispanic. He was dancing with a 46:00white woman, something like that. But they said it's more than that, see? It's not racial per se. But he was drunk--I don't know the, the detail.

ROTH: But was he accidentally killed?

AREEPHANTHU: No, no intentionally killed.

ROTH: Wow.

AREEPHANTHU: Beaten. They were fighting and take out of the bar and shot that, or something like that I don't know.

ROTH: Oh.

AREEPHANTHU: But I (indeterminable) from the newspaper. And also the case of the Laotian family got killed by the Laos is still in the news now. The, the trial will start on this next Monday, I think. And they very much uh, may attention to the case, they look for the, the perpetrators and, and arrested them, and it 47:00just unbelievable how much they pay attention to this case, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's real, real commendable, this town. Yeah.

ROTH: Do you have any, any stories that maybe are the exception to that, where things have been difficult for individuals or...

AREEPHANTHU: No, it, it always here and there that, you know, because uh--at work, minor cases like, "Because I'm a refugee, they always tell me to do more than the others." Something like that, you know. Maybe it's true, maybe just a perception, maybe that person is lazy. You never know. There's always something like that, yeah. More than that, I haven't heard anything. Yeah.

ROTH: I noticed, um, driving around--maybe they've been, maybe when I talked with the owners of Jake's Oriental Store that um, there have been like Asian grocery stores. Like, there's been one I think for the past, I don't know how--or when did, when did things start to develop? Because I guess my question is...

AREEPHANTHU: One before that, right? Okay. Go ahead, I'm sorry.

ROTH: Well, just that um, the kinds of things that when you move to a new place, you don't have the same kind of foods or products that, that you.... Um, that you're used to at home. And so then some of these stores, there haven't been a lot of them, but I notice that there's a Mexican Store, Dos Amigos. And maybe there's another one. And there's Jake's. And then there's the Golden Key.

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right.

ROTH: And then the restaurants, too.

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm.

ROTH: Like, when did all that stuff start to develop and how do you see that 49:00helping the community here?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. It, it is, it's a part of their culture is food, right? Food. And they always uh--it, it facilitate them in the sense that they don't have to go buy food in different town, see. But Nashville is very cosmopolitan, you know. And they used to commute. and since they have it here. And some of the, well out of the refugees as we were talking about, they were unprepared. Including food, you know. They insisting, insist in having their own food, see. And they have the eating rice, it should be certain kind of rice. Sticky rice that is. And they can find it here, you know. Right.

(00:50:03)

ROTH: So that--is that, that's developed, though in later years.

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right, right, right. We have been having off and on quite a bit in uh, grocery or food store, you know. Yeah. But uh, because of the population then were not big enough to support the business, so it's hard to survive. But now they have more, larger group than they survive very well. Yeah.

ROTH: I see.

AREEPHANTHU: Yes.

ROTH: Um...Did you say that those places are kind of gathering or meeting places for people to kind of get together? Or are--where does that happen? Do people...

AREEPHANTHU: You're talking about the grocery? No.

ROTH: Yeah, well, or the restaurant...

AREEPHANTHU: Places.

ROTH: ...or some, some place...

AREEPHANTHU: Restaurant. Not um--they I don't know. The South Asian, they usually choose one of the friend's house as a meeting place, you know. Cooking, eating together. They take turn. But also we have uh, I have a few Asian attending Hillvue Heights. Hillvue Heights is a church within a church. I'm helping to translate the Bible, yeah, into Thai, Laos, Arabic. Yeah. We used to Arab uh, uh, attended also. But now it's mainly Laos. Laotian. Few Cambodian. But the Cambodian they, they attend First Baptist I think.

ROTH: The, the big church there on twelfth?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah the First, First Baptist, yeah.

ROTH: The one that, the new building.

AREEPHANTHU: Right, right. The new building, right.

ROTH: The, um you said Hillville Heights?

AREEPHANTHU: Right.

ROTH: Hillville Heights? Is that, what kind of a church is that?

AREEPHANTHU: Baptist.

ROTH: Baptist.

AREEPHANTHU: Baptist, yeah.

ROTH: Is that the church that you attend?

AREEPHANTHU: Right. We have Asian, uh, ministry there.

ROTH: A Laotian ministry?

AREEPHANTHU: I, I am minister. I'm helping with that.

ROTH: Oh yeah?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, until they get one.

ROTH: So, do you then conduct like a service in Laos.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah we do, yeah. Bible school and also service, yes.

ROTH: You mean like Sunday school, or Bible school?

AREEPHANTHU: Uh, both, both. Sunday school and, and, and worship. Worshipping.

ROTH: Could I come some Sunday?

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah, please do.

ROTH: Is it on Sunday?

AREEPHANTHU: On Sunday.

ROTH: What...

AREEPHANTHU: Around uh, 9:30 to 10:30 or 11:00 o'clock, yeah. You're welcome to come.

ROTH: And um, so it's in Laos?

AREEPHANTHU: In, in Laos, or Thai.

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Because the Laotian can listen to Thai, no problem. But the Thai will have a little hard time to listen to uh, uh, to uh, what, to Laos.

ROTH: To Laos. Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Like uh, Americans might have a hard time with the Irish accent a little bit. Maybe not. I had, had a difficult....

ROTH: Oh, I do, too.

AREEPHANTHU: But for them there's no problem if they listen to the American accent, see. Something like that.

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: Are the services--I mean I guess I could find out, but are there other ways that they're different or the, the music that is sung?

AREEPHANTHU: The music we use have a lady help with the piano, you know. But we don't have anymore. We use, uh, we use without the music. We sing in, in Laos, Laos songs. Yeah.

ROTH: Are they...

AREEPHANTHU: A little bit not a whole lot.

ROTH: Are the songs...

AREEPHANTHU: It, it just...

ROTH: ...from Laos?

AREEPHANTHU: Uh yeah, the translation from the English version mostly. And they have their own you know, tune. Yeah.

ROTH: Their own song--their own...

AREEPHANTHU: Their own song from, from the Bible. Based on the Bible that is. Yeah, yeah.

ROTH: Would you say that a lot of the Laos, have they converted to Christianity 55:00or were they Christian when they came?

AREEPHANTHU: No they converted, all converted. They on the verge, on the the threshold, you know. And uh, it's hard because Buddhism can be to, to some they, it is even, it is not a religion even, you see. They have, they don't have the concept of Creator and Creation and all those.

(00:55:22)

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Everything natural, see. Natural. And uh, Buddha can be uh, was a big philosopher among the things, you see, in life. Part of the solution in life, see. Mainly like a desire or those uh, sin. Well not sin. Torturing. They don't use the word "sin" that much. Torture because you suffer, see. If you love 56:00someone you very much concern, worry. That is torturing, you see. You need that, you want that. Life should be simple, see. You know, you don't need this vanity. You (indeterminable) and good cloth is vanity. You use only a piece of cloth to cover yourself. And you eat uh, meals uh, up to eleven o'clo--that, that for the monks, that is. They're higher. They are uh, hierarchy in, in uh, in believing, see. Precepts. You can accept the first five or ten or twenty or thirty or one hundred, see. By degrees. And, and the long run they wish not to be born again because life is born, born and reborn, right. Birth, rebirth.

ROTH: The, the reincarnation?

AREEPHANTHU: Reincarnation. And so the, the aim is to the point that they don't have to be born again. Then they are not suffer. Life is what, life is suffering to them. See? Mhmm. You go to nirvana, which is the top enlightenment. Like buddhists, Buddha.

ROTH: So what you find is a lot of kind of mixing of some of the Buddhist, kind of philosophy or way of looking at life along with the Christianity? Is there some....

AREEPHANTHU: Right, but, but also they can't, they can't, they can reconcile with Christianity that uh, no you should not, what--greedy, what word is that? That uh--in other words you depend on God, you don't have to work very hard, you 58:00don't, you have to be sacrificing, you know, take care of the poor and all those, you know. Give away your uh, money and all the donation or (indeterminable), something like that uh.... And it, it is uh, the, the Ten Commandments is the same, see. The same in Buddhism. Plus uh, their, "thou shall not kill" including animal kingdom. You don't kill anything, and ant here, you don't even kill them ant, or insect. Not supposed to if you can avoid, yeah.

ROTH: Mhmm. Um, I have, I mean I have a lot of questions about...

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: ...that, I guess.

AREEPHANTHU: Religion, yeah.

ROTH: I left my extra tape, I guess in the car.

AREEPHANTHU: Oh.

ROTH: I think we're going to run out soon, but I wanted...

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: Um.... So, in the services--well, let me ask you about the other, are 59:00there other places like the Cambodians, or do they worship...

AREEPHANTHU: At First Baptist.

ROTH: First Baptist, oh yeah you did say that.

AREEPHANTHU: First Baptist, yeah.

ROTH: Do they have a separate service, or...

AREEPHANTHU: They have separate service, too so...

ROTH: Separate service.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: Do you know who's leading them?

AREEPHANTHU: I don't--They have been changing quite a bit. Last time Ray Lanham was there and I don't know who is there now. If you go there and ask for the Cambodians uh...

ROTH: Okay.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. I don't know how they do it. Maybe the uh, Sunday school separately and then the service together, or they do the service separately, or I don't know.

ROTH: Mhmm. And the Vietnamese? Do they?

AREEPHANTHU: The Vietnamese, they spread out, you know. Those who choose to go to church, they do selectively not, not together. But there are some Vietnamese 60:00uh, who are Catholic you know, because the French colony and...

(01:00:01)

ROTH: Do you know if they go to one particular...

AREEPHANTHU: I...They used to be uh, they go to Holy Spirit. One family or two I.......Yeah.

ROTH: Well I can call around.

AREEPHANTHU: You can, you sure can.

ROTH: Is there, is there a place where um, like are, have all of them converted or some people's worshipping Buddhi--or still doing....

AREEPHANTHU: Oh there's still a lot of, of Buddhism practice, yeah. Because it's a sentimental and, you know, they, they think that that their ancestors' religion they should hang onto that. Event those that go to church, they're not fully aware or, or being complete Christianity, you see. They just practice some 61:00both uh, you know. Sometime they practice Buddhism, too. But we have to allow that time. We should not force them, yeah. Let them learn and understand and compare, contrast. Yeah.

ROTH: So, um, I guess I could ask when I interview people but I'm wondering about, when I was in Des Moines, Iowa, which is a similar sort of community.

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm, right.

ROTH: Because it's much bigger city.

AREEPHANTHU: Were you there?

ROTH: Last summer.

AREEPHANTHU: Okay. We have two families here move to Des Moines.

ROTH: Oh really?

AREEPHANTHU: And they just visited us this summer. And uh, they attend church there, too. Yeah.

ROTH: Did they talk about the differences, or? I mean between Bowling Green and 62:00Des Moines?

AREEPHANTHU: No. Yeah. It's, it's uh...They didn't tell us much about difference. Uh, they always, they have their own community uh, community you see. To them it's very similar (laughs). Because they living on their own uh, community. Mhmm.

ROTH: In Des Moines, or?

AREEPHANTHU: In Des Moines. Everywhere, you know, they have their own. but they do have a Laotian church, yeah. It's, it's growing. It's growing. They're learning, and uh, the so-called Mother church helping them, you know, to get into the self, uh, sufficient. Yeah.

ROTH: What I was beginning to say is that in Des Moines they, they have a um, an actual temple, a Buddhist temple.

AREEPHANTHU: Oh yeah. Yeah in Nashville they have that.

ROTH: I wondered if...

AREEPHANTHU: Right, Nashville.

ROTH: ...it's the closest one.

AREEPHANTHU: And the one man, one Laos man from here he went and ordained himself to be a monk.

ROTH: Oh yeah?

AREEPHANTHU: In the Buddhist temple in Nashville.

ROTH: For how long, or?

AREEPHANTHU: He meant to be stay longer but he only stay there for three months. Then he came back. He uh, I don't what you call they get out of the monk....yeah.

ROTH: And then, I'm sure there's New Years celebrations. Do they...

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: ...happen here or do people tend to leave or?

AREEPHANTHU: The--somehow they have been doing that for the last two, three years. But the Vietnamese and the Chi--their New Year coincide with the Chinese, 64:00you see. Actually, Vietnamese is, is, it very close to Chinese tribe, one of the tribal...See even their language very similar. Into Cantonese, I little bit. And they used to use the Chinese alphabet, but, but since the, what--when they were a French colony they chose uh, Roman alphabet now, they use Roman alphabet. And uh, it they call Tết New Year, Tết, right. In, in, Tết, Tết--I'm sorry--Tết. In Vietnamese. And uh, it's uh lunar, lunar month, you know. During sometime in February. It's not always the same day of the month. Just 65:00like the Jewish calendar, same.

ROTH: Right.

AREEPHANTHU: Islam, too.

(01:05:00)

ROTH: I'm curious, we were talking a little bit about food and how food is oftentimes how we identify our culture...

AREEPHANTHU: Mhmm, mhmm.

ROTH: I'm wondering what kinds of food you eat at home, do you...

AREEPHANTHU: Oh uh, my home is a very mixture with the Egyptian, Indian, Thai, American.

ROTH: Mhmm.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah...We uh, try to eat everything (laughs), in sight (laughs). You know that. Yeah, but the Laos is a little bit--but to Americans all this food is spicy food. But then what spice is it. We can tell a different of spices, see. Yeah, they use different spice. But, the pepper is always that. Hot 66:00pepper, you know. Mexico the same thing.

ROTH: Thai food can be very hot.

AREEPHANTHU: Very hot. Can be very hot. But then you can do it uh, according to taste, you see. You can dilute it. You try the Thai food?

ROTH: Oh yeah.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah.

ROTH: It's good. How would you compare the Thai food that they're making? Are they changing it for Bowling Green's taste, or does it feel...

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. They, they have to dilute it a little bit, or less peppers, see, see. It, you know, the uh, Asian food is not, the recipe is not definite. See, always flexible. If you have this you use this, if you don't you use something else. And if you don't want hot you don't use pepper at all. For my children I never use pepper in, in the curry or anything, you know. But if you need, you can add it later, individually, privately, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. 67:00You talk about that more in food or in religion, you know I tell you more about...

ROTH: Yeah.

AREEPHANTHU: I was uh, lucky I, I grew up in Islamic and Buddhism and uh, Christianity in the Middle East and Judaism. You know, I can compare all those, basically. Not uh, in-depth of course but I know about what is, what are the differences. And what--sometime is so close and yet so far, see? Or we have something in common. And if you are a good either Buddhist, Christian, a Jewish, a Muslim, if you are really to the top of that, you know, you can live together with any other religion, no problem. But unless you choose to be fanatic, you know, and, and, stubborn and everything, this forces out the others to accept that. Then that is the problem. Yeah.

ROTH: And that's what you were saying about allowing the, the Laos and the ones that go to Hillvue and church to kind of take their time.

AREEPHANTHU: Oh, they take a long time. At least--already it's good they come and listen, see. And learn. Of course when they come I always help them with some paperwork, some that. It doesn't mean bribery, you know, it just a good method to help. And uh, they learn, you know. And, and they accept fine. They don't, they don't...yeah.

ROTH: Do you, do you find other--see I grew up in a family where my father would feel very different about that. I mean I agree with you and, but I--have you encountered people here that don't feel that way, who are a little bit more Evangelical about Christianity.

AREEPHANTHU: Yeah. Right, right. There are some people like that. "If I sponsor you, you come to my church, period. If you don't I'm not going to help you." Yeah there are. Yeah. But it should take time. One time we, we have a family, a Cambodian family almost running away from London, Kentucky, moving to here because of their sponsor insist that they should go to church. And they even brought them to me in the church. They said, "now this people will start attending church here." They did attend for the few weeks, and after that disappear. Yeah. But they said they are Christian, too, you know but uh....

(01:09:49)