Oral History Interview with Abdol Ghayoumi

LUANN JOHNSON: Okay it is June 18th, 1999. And I am LuAnn Johnson. I am interviewing Dr. Ghayoumi who is originally from Iran. And we are at the Barnes & Noble Cafe in Bowling Green, Kentucky. So there will be um, considerable background noise. Um, cappuccino making, possibly phone calls, and um, loud speaker announcements. Uh, thank you for coming this afternoon Dr. Ghayoumi.

ABDOL GHAYOUMI: You are very welcome.

JOHNSON: Um, I just wanted to start out to see how, how did you arrive in Bowling Green?

GHAYOUMI: Well the, initially back in 1987, I decided to find a place to practice chiropractic. And uh, my in-laws at that time, I still at (indeterminable), they reside at, in North Carolina. And uh, I was living in 1:00Davenport, Iowa, and many times we would go to visit them in North Carolina, and Kentucky always was a good halfway to the state to rest to make the second part of the trip. And I always enjoyed driving to Kentucky. Because it was so much different than midwest, you know, with the mountains and uh, scenery. I really liked this place. So, after I taught at--for a long time I talked about moving and practicing chiropractic--I used to teach at that time. I talked to my wife and we decided to move from Davenport, Iowa and perhaps either go to live in 2:00North Carolina, or use a place that is halfway between my family and her family. And since we both really liked Kentucky, so this was basically the first choice. And uh, what I decided to do at that point since we didn't know anybody in Kentucky uh, Ivan and I, we decided to make a few trips to different cities in Kentucky to see what area we liked the most. So one of our primary objectives is we wanted it to be a city that is not too big, and at the same time a city that (beeping) it will have university. So that way my kids would not have to leave after they finish high school if they chose not to. So we made a target plan of traveling to Richmond, Kentucky, Bowling Green. Uh Murray, Kentucky, and uh, of course we were many times we drove though Lexington. And I kind of liked Lexington. So we went and we visited Owensboro. We visited, I guess Richmond. 3:00And when we came to Bowling Green--this is very funny--I believe in destiny, by the way. Uh, it was late in the afternoon. It was during the month of March. And uh, it was getting close to get dark and we pulled through the parkway and we came through 31 Bypass, and the kids they were very young. I had three daughters at that time. Two of them they were in diapers, and the other one was, I guess, probably four years or five years old. And uh, we pulled on 31 Bypass. At that time I believe there was a fast-food seafood place. Captain D's. And I pulled in the parking lot and there was this older lady with her daughter. They parked 4:00next to our car. And uh, the first thing they said was, "Oh, you're Iowa." And I said, "Yes." Of course they looked at the pate, the license plate, and they knew we were from Iowa. And they start talking as to why are you here, what brought you here. And I told them that I was a chiropractor and I was trying to see what area of the state I would like to go with and start a practice. I remember the lady, the older lady, she was from Glasgow--no she was was from Bowling Green and the daughter was from, living in Glasgow at that time. And they started saying, "Oh, we'd love to have you here. We need a good chiropractor." And the mother said, "We need you to come to Bowling Green and start a practice here." And they daughter said, "No, come to Glasgow." And I mean, they were bargaining 5:00as to who wants to get, you know, me and my family to move to their town. (00:05:03) We went to order the food, they came the food, and they came, they sat next to us, and they were very friendly. Very nice people. And uh so, I ask you know, where we can stay around here. And those days we didn't have all those hotels that you see now. And uh, I guess one of those ladies said, "You know, if you go by I-65 there is Ramada Inn, there is a couple of other hotels." So we ate dinner and then we drove and I saw at that time the Super 8 Motel, you know. And I said, "Well let's go see if they have any vacancies." So we went there and the receptionist name, it was Fred. I remember after, even to this day. And so we checked in to see if they had a room, and Fred asked me, you know, if I was traveling through the town. I said, "No, as a matter of fact I'm a chiropractor. I'm checking different towns to see where I'd like to practice." And Fred said, 6:00"Oh great, we need you here. My wife needs chiropractic work." You know. And you know, "When are you going to open your practice?" And I said, "I'm not opening. I'm just driving through the town to see if I like it here." So we checked into the hotel and that next morning I got up, went downstairs to have cup of coffee. I walk outside--you have to understand this is early part of March. Early part of March in Iowa is freezing cold. And here, grass was green, birds they were singing. And it was a sunny, nice day. And I guess mid 60s. You know, it was beautiful day. And I walked in the parking lot and I was looking at I-65. And I had at that time such a peaceful thinking that something or somebody was telling me this is where the home is going to be. It's hard to explain. I walked back, I went upstairs, and I told my wife, "This is it." And she said, "You know what, I had"--I explained, you know, with feeling and what I felt. She said, "You know, 7:00I feel about the same." So the next day, we checked out. We left Bowling Green. I didn't even check to see where the university is, or big it is, or try to drive different parts of town to see if I really like it or not. And as a matter of fact we were, I was taking a whole week off to do, you know, to go travel different cities. (clears throat) Excuse me. To see which city I liked. I guess Bowling Green was the third city I drove. And we turn around, we went back to Davenport. And uh, the following week I gave my resignation to school. My wife was working at Hormel as a microbiologist. And she gave her resignation. And we 8:00moved to Bowling Green. Without knowing anybody. You know, new town. And that's how we end up in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

JOHNSON: And that was in the '80s?

GHAYOUMI: That was in 1987.

JOHNSON: And...

GHAYOUMI: Yeah, (indeterminable) 1987.

JOHNSON: Okay. And so how long have you been in chiropractics?

GHAYOUMI: I graduated in 1984.

JOHNSON: Okay.

GHAYOUMI: So '84...'99...

JOHNSON: Yeah. You were teaching chiropractics?

GHAYOUMI: I was uh, doing a program called Clinic Teaching Residency that uh, part of that, you know, doing different residency program, was also one of my responsibilities was to teach and coordinate a class. That it was named Clinic Research Conference class. And uh, so I was given the responsibility of that class. And uh, when I gave my, you know, resignation, said, "You know, I'm going to leave." They didn't want me to leave because they liked what I was doing at 9:00the school. So, but I guess that's what brought me to Bowling Green. Yes, I was teaching prior to coming here.

JOHNSON: Yeah. So this was your first practice? Your first business?

GHAYOUMI: Uh, first you know, practice as far as you know, having my own office. You know when I was working at the College of Chiropractic, one of my responsibilities also was I was Clinic Unit Director. And I was supervising and overseeing the care of patients that were coming to that clinic. They had number of students assigned to different unit directors, and I was one of those unit directors.

JOHNSON: Okay. Now you mentioned your wife's family is from, lives in North Carolina. And your family lives in Iowa?

GHAYOUMI: Uh, my family, most of them in Iowa at that time. Now they have moved to Kentucky, as well.

JOHNSON: Okay. Now what um, originally brought everyone over from Iran?

(00:10:02)

GHAYOUMI: Well, initially my, you know, my oldest brother was going to school 10:00here. Graduate school. And my parents they thought, that since he's here by himself along, it will be nice if I come. And go to school, and at the same time, you know, I would be here with my brother. So that way he wouldn't feel homesick. So that's, when I finished high school, then I came here as a student.

JOHNSON: Where was that at?

GHAYOUMI: That was uh in--initially I came to, I went to uh, California. And then my brother, you know, transferred. Actually went from California to uh, Bapson College in Massachusetts. And so uh, when he moved, I made a move and I went with him to Massachusetts. And that was where I met my wife. And then we got married. We were both pre-med students.

JOHNSON: Okay. Alright. So, what was your first experience moving to the States? 11:00Is that something you had always known you were, wanted to do or did it just happen?

GHAYOUMI: Actually it just happened, you know. And first you have to realize at that time, back in 1970s, early 70s, there were a lot Americans living in Iran. And uh, so you know, I was exposed to American culture and American people where I used to live. We were living in the nice, affluential neighborhood. So you know, I was exposed to a lot of, you know, foreigners. And uh so, and as far as, you know, the city of Tehran is concerned, very modern, nice city back in those days. One of the things was, when I came to United States, actually there was nothing actually different here as opposed to Tehran. I remember when I came to 12:00United States, when we have to call to talk to my parents, we have to call through overseas operator. Dial 0-1, 1 I guess. Or 0-0, I can't remember. This has been long time ago. And go through the operator in order to call--have the international operator dial the number in Tehran. But as in Tehran, you could dial it directly without even going through the operator. You could have even dialed it through calling outside in the street directly overseas. So actually, over there, in that perspective it was more modernized because everything was happening first. So we got the best of the technology because they had the oil money, and they were flooding with all the new technology. But as when we came 13:00here, you know, I had to dial through the operator. Another thing was that was exciting, you know, like the cars we would drive. It was much nicer than the cars they were driving here. Over there a lot of BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, you know, nice cars. And then you would come here, a lot of beat up cars. You know, Volkswagen, you know. And so it was basically not a big cultural shock as far as going from a third world country, let's say, to some place that is technologically above everybody else.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

GHAYOUMI: Basically as far as life, as far as technology, it was pretty much were, we had the same things we had here.

JOHNSON: Okay. Now um, you mentioned you had been exposed a lot to American culture already. But what are some of the big differences you noticed um, settling down in America? Um, culturally?

GHAYOUMI: So one thing is, you know, in Iran, you know people, family members 14:00are much more closer together. And also friendship means a whole lot more than what it is here. For example, over there you would, it would not be unusual for you to do anything you can to help a friend and help another, either your friend, neighbor, family member, or even a stranger. I remember there were times that I would see a German tourist or, you know, American tourist. And they would ask for a direction. And I knew what it was and I would say, "Okay, I'll take you." And I would take half hour of my time to go show where they needed to be. Whereas here yo don't see it. As much. In a smaller city, it's true. You see some of that. But it's not as close-knit as you see there. (00:15:00) Another 15:00difference in culture is, you know, the values are different there. You know, especially something that I notice, and to this day it really bothers me. In Iran, you know, they credit a person based on their brain. Based on their character. Based on the person they were. And they did not use a woman as a sex object like you see it here. Here, they want to sell a bubble gum, you see a woman in bikini. They want to sell a tire, you see a woman in bikini sitting on top of the tire. They want to sell a furniture you see a woman in a bikini laying on a piece of furniture. And over there, it wasn't like that. You know, most of the time you would look at the woman as they could be your sister. Or they could be your mother. Or they could be your, you know, neighbor. So there 16:00was more respect for the person rather than their physiques, you know. And that was, some of the factor that it was, you know, because still to this day I believe it's a major difference. Friendship is in the deeper sense. Family, they stick together very closely. And you know, they value you based on who you are. On your intellect rather than your body or rather than what you drive. So you know, it's I guess, you know, less materialistic there than it is over here.

JOHNSON: Okay. Um, kind of a good segue into um, values and, and ethics. But um, as far as religious systems, or philosophical systems, what were you raised with? And...

GHAYOUMI: I was raised as a, in a Muslim family. But my mom and dad, they were not practicing, you know. You know, we were in a--as a matter of fact I'll tell you this. Back (indeterminable) in the street we used to live, we had three, three families that they were opposite of our house, and they were of Jewish religion. And uh, two house down from them, there was a, you know, a family that they were uh, Assyrian. Which are Christian, or you know, Eastern Christians, you know. And uh, you know, we would visit them. They would come visit us. And we really didn't think of them as they are better, they are worse. Or we never were taught you need to go and impose your religion on the other people's belief system in order to gain, you know, I don't know, brownie points where you go to heaven, whatever. We were told you would be judged based on your action, and if you're a good person that reflects on others and you do need to use religious 18:00(indeterminable) as a means of controlling or, you know, using it to influence or, you know, cheat other people. So in that sense, you know, it was more of the fact that you know, you be good, you be an example with your life, and that's what god wants every person to do. Help the neighbor, help the friend, be respectful to one another. Respectful to their parents. Help the orphans, help the needy people. You know, be respectful to the woman, be respectful to the, you know, youngsters. Live an example of life. And these are all the commonalities, most religions they teach. As a matter of fact, over there was 19:00no...uh, conflict or any friction, you know. I mean we looked at them as our best friend. Best buddy. And part of the Islamic religion says, you know, (phone rings) Judaism, Christianity, they were all true religion. And can, being a Muslim cannot set themselves above the rest of those, you know, those people. In other words, you know, to be a good Muslim, you have to be a good Jew and good Christian also. So that was the idea that I was brought up with. And I'm glad I did because it gave me a diversity and understanding. And knowing that, you know, you're just like everybody else. Because you are so-called Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, whatever, that doesn't make you any better than your next door neighbor. And you know, you need to help people regardless of their color, their race, their belief system. And uh, when you go back to the, even the religious 20:00perspective, we all originated from Adam and Eve. So in a sense we are a big family of diverse ideology, which it makes it not any better than the other group.

(00:20:17)

JOHNSON: So um, how have you integrated that in your, your life here in, in Bowling Green, or in America?

GHAYOUMI: Well, United States, you know, has such a large group of different ethnicity and religious. You know, for example in United States, I believe at least there are probably seven, eight Muslim, you know, living, you know, citizen of this country. And probably the same number in Jewish faith. So it really made me to be, if anything maybe a little bit more understandable. Making me a little bit more appreciative of the value system. I taught not to judge 21:00them because, you know, people they are not, you know, same sect as I am. You know, like you would see here. Here sometime you see the Catholic think Orthodox would not go to heaven. You know, the Nazarene believes they are the only that go to heaven. You know, Methodist believe they are the one. That's something, you know, I'm glad, you know, I wasn't taught. And I was taught you would be judged on your action regardless of who you are. Because after all, you can put a front a fake it, but inside you, he knows, the god will know who are. And when the day comes you'll be judged on that. Not what front you put on or what you preach, and then turn it on and did something totally opposite when nobody was looking. So it has really helped me to realize, you know, if anything I'm the one I need to change for betterment. And if I do a good job, hopefully people will, you know, respect me for who I am, not the brand or religion that I carry 22:00with myself.

JOHNSON: So have you found a community to worship with here in Bowling Green?

GHAYOUMI: Well one thing is my philosophy, that's part of philosophy, you don't need to belong to a, you know, a square footage, footage, you don't need to be under the roof in order to worship god. You can do it every second, no matter what place you are. You know, at least, you know, I'm not exaggerating, but 20, 30 times a day I always thank god. Anytime a patient come see me and I notice they are getting better, I always give the credit to him. Because I'm only an instrument. He's the healer. And through, you know, his healing I'm able to get patient well. So you know, you really, you know, to say you definitely need to have a building or beautiful two million dollar church or mosque or synagogue, 23:00to me it doesn't make sense. I prefer that money be used for the needy, homeless family to build them homes so they won't have to sleep under the bridge, than having a fancy, glamorous building to worship. You know. The church should be inside your heart. Mosque should be inside your heart. Synagogue should be inside your heart. Temple should be inside your heart. So you really don't need to have a specific building once a week for twenty minutes to feel like you are a good person. You have to live with that philosophy every second of your life.

JOHNSON: Okay. Well are there um, certain um, celebrations or traditions? Um, either religious or, or just secular that you maintain with your family? Here?

GHAYOUMI: As far as religious, none. But, you know I, you know, there is, I celebrate Persian New Year. Every year. And I have taught my wife. She's Ameri-, she's an American. You know born and raised here. Maybe fourth, fifth generation American. I celebrate the Persian New Year and I teach my kids because it's 24:00first day of the spring. And it's the new beginning. It's the time that the plants, they start to grow back from the deep sleep they were in winter months. And uh, you know, I remember as a child when we were, you know, celebrating the Persian New Year, one of the things we used to do, put on new clothes. You know, sit on the table prior to the time that the beginning, the first, you know, for the time would change and it'd be the first day of the spring. We will sit, we will talk, we will get up and, you know, congratulate each other for, you know, having the opportunity to live to see one more year to come. You know. 25:00(00:25:00) And then our mother and father, they used to give us, you know, similar to gift like you do here for Christmas, you know. There it was monetary. They would give you money. And then we will go (indeterminable) we have the twelve days of, actually thirteen days of holiday. School would be closed, the official government would be closed five days. And what we would do, we would start from the oldest member of the family to go visit them. To pay our respect, wish them a healthy, happy prosperous year. And we would go visit during this, you know, thirteen days. And we would, they will come visit us. And it was a hierarchy of who sits first day and gets the visitor. And then as you start getting to the younger group, then you would be on the later days because your job was to go see the elders. And that was pretty neat because it taught us to respect older people. It taught us to respect our grandparents, aunts, uncles. 26:00Because, you know, we were there because of them and it was very delightful, the experience to sit around the family, talk and witness that, you know, they happen to live also, and share some of their experience with us. Very nice. That's the only holiday that we, I celebrate. Most Iranians, now that they live in United States, they still celebrate the Persian New Year, which is called Nowruz.

JOHNSON: Nowruz?

GHAYOUMI: Yeah. New days.

JOHNSON: Okay. Um, and what kind of preparation goes into it? As, was...

GHAYOUMI: Well you know, one of few things, you know, few days before the New Year, usually they clean the house. Similar to spring cleaning we have here. Drapes have to go to dry cleaner. Windows need to be washed. Not that they don't do it all year, but it's special activity goes on. And then, you know, they will grow weed, you know, and uh, you know, as a symbol of new life. They will put 27:00ribbon around it, the weed be soaked on the plate. And it start to sprout. And you know, it's symbol of life. They will have goldfish on the table. And they will have seven different things that starts with the letter C in Farsi. Symbolizing, you know, different things. Like, you know garlic. Like apples. Vinegar. Uh, coin. Uh...and uh...wheat that is growing. And uh...eggs that is first colored, similar to Easter egg decoration. And uh, the sumac, you know. And these they all represent the different meaning of life. So, they will have these, they would be on the table. And then on the time that the time will 28:00change, you know, exactly. Then, you know, we will be sitting on the table--and depending on who's, you know, follow what faith, Christians, they will have Bible on the table. Jews, the have, you know, Torah. You know, Muslims, they have Quran. Zoroastrians, they have, you know, Avestan. It's their holy book. And they, you know, it was the--it was the...you know the--it was the new year for everybody of different faiths. It wasn't like here, New Year is more of Christian new year. You know, it was the New Year that it included all faiths. It was very nice. I still, you know, that's one of the few things that I miss. Because over there when you grow up you see everybody wearing suit, nice clothes. They get into their car to go visit, you know, their family member. So you were with a flow of, you know, what everybody else was doing. Whereas here, 29:00it's not the same. Because, you know, in Bowling Green there are not that many Iranian families anyway.

JOHNSON: So did um, is there a history behind the Persian New Year? Has it gone on for...

GHAYOUMI: Oh yeah, this has been going on for thousands of years. You know. And it goes back to the time that Persia, Egypt, and maybe...Greece was the only civilization there was. I don't remember now the whole story of how it started, but it's been something that it has survived through many...turmoil. In Iran, during the conquer of, you know uh, Alexander uh, you know, other conquerers, you know, still, you know, people they kept that culture. Even to this day Iranians that they are in exile in United States, they still do that.

(00:30:00)

JOHNSON: Okay. Are there songs or decorations or things that--

GHAYOUMI: Decorations. No song, but decoration. And just visiting family, renewing the friendship, you know. And uh, you know, taking time to, you know, smell the roses so to speak, you know.

JOHNSON: So this is something that you taught your children to...celebrate?

GHAYOUMI: Yes, you know. And they, you know, we celebrate Christmas. We also celebrate the Persian New Year. You know, I think the more kids are exposed to this type of diversity, it's better. Because that way they realize, you know, they have to respect others. And they have, you know, that way the realize they are, you know, other people they are just as important. They have feeling, they have celebration, they have, you know, activities that will be just as nice. And I think it will be important for them to learn and become curious enough to not only learn but also be respectful. So when they see, you know, somebody, you 31:00know, in Africa is celebrating and doing some sort of celebration that is not what we are used to, they won't have to look down and say, you know, "What is this?" You know. So they realize hey, every culture they have their own things. In our eyes, to our eyes, it may not look kosher but you know, to their eyes that's part of the culture. We need to respect it.

JOHNSON: Um, try to gather my thoughts. So, do you still have considerable number of family back in Iran?

GHAYOUMI: Close family, no. You know, and you have to realize I've been in United States since 1976. And that's most of my life I've been here. And uh, lost most of them, you know, older people they have passed away, they are dead now. And the younger one they were born after I came here, they wouldn't know me. And there is still some left, but most of the people in my family, after 32:00Revolution or prior to that, they you know, immigrated to Europe, United States, Canada. You know, Ger-, Aus-, Australia maybe, you know, a few. But very few they are back there.

JOHNSON: Okay. So what um, deci-, caused your parents to decide to move here permanently?

GHAYOUMI: Well my mom moved because all of my brothers, we are here. My father passed away back in 1982. So if was alive he would have been here with us.

JOHNSON: Mhmm. Okay. So do you plan on um, visiting or returning?

GHAYOUMI: No because, you know, I, I tell you what, I--two years ago, or maybe 33:00three years ago...anyway, two or three years ago I went back to Iran for four days. Because I couldn't close the office. And I wasn't sure, you know, if I should go there, you know. So I decided, you know, to go and see what's going on. And I went and it was funny, when I went there I felt like I'm in a foreign land. You know. When it was home, past, when I was young, it no longer felt like home to me. You know. I was missing here and uh, you know, everybody look to malice foreigner, you know. And uh, so you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't have the feeling. I was told by, you know, some of the people that I know, that they were Iranian, and--or other nationalities, you know. They told me when they went back back to their homeland, it didn't feel like home. And some of them they were disappointed with changes. So when I went back, you know, I was, you know, it was different. Part of the fact was most of the people I knew, friends, 34:00they were all gone. You know either, you know to different city or different country. Most of the, you know, older people that I recall they were dead, you know. And uh, so you know, I was in a place that, you know, I didn't know that many people. The culture was different for me. I wasn't used to it. And therefore, you know, when I came back after four days, it was kind of good because it made my soul address that, you know, what I remember from home back days, those days, you know, it was a good memory, but you know, life goes on. And to me, Bowling Green is home. You know. And although I've traveled many states, I've lived in California, I lived in Massachusetts, I lived in Iowa, but Bowling Green is home. You know, this is home.

(00:35:05)

JOHNSON: I'm going to flip the tape over...

GHAYOUMI: Go ahead.

JOHNSON: ...and then I have a few more questions. (tape cuts out) Okay, this is side two. Um, so are there things from um, or memories from your childhood, or foods from your childhood that you miss? Or that you maintain while you're living here?

GHAYOUMI: Well uh, I make a lot of the Persian food here. Actually there is a lot of Persian restaurants, you know, in United States. Especially when we go to the state that there are large Iranian community. Like California and uh, Texas. 36:00Washington D.C. area. There is a lot of restaurants, you know. Our, you know, it's funny you go to California, especially Southern California, it's like going back to Iran, you know. You see every two stores are Iranians, you know. They have from, you know, the restaurant to dry cleaners to video store to book store. And uh so, a lot of it is here, you know. Whatever, you know, spices or pastries that, you know, I recall liking it as a childhood, it can be bought here in United States. So you know, food, you know, yeah we use, we make a lot of Persian food because it's such a wild diversity of food that, you know, you don't get tired of, you know, that. You can always try something new. We also make, you know, typical food that is consumed here. You know, fried chicken and 37:00roast beef. Things like that. And uh, but uh, as far as missing any food specifically, not really. Because you have to realize also as you get older your tastes will change. What I used to like as a child, probably if I taste them now I will say, "Yuck, what was that?" You know. So that's part of growing process. What didn't taste good then, it tastes good now. And uh, you know, we make a lot of Persian food here also.

JOHNSON: Yeah. Do you have difficulty finding any ingredients in Bowling Green? Or...

GHAYOUMI: No. You know everything, you know, you can find at Kroger that will, you know, they have everything at Kroger that you need to make Persian food. Because they are not that really, that spicy or they don't use too many, you know uh, complicated or expensive spices like they use in Indian cuisine. So you know, you can find them in most stores here. Yeah.

JOHNSON: Okay. So are your daughters and your sons learning how to cook these meals, as well?

GHAYOUMI: No, as a matter of fact my oldest daughter, you know, likes Persian food, you know. Middle one and younger one they say they hate Persian food. (laughs)

JOHNSON: (laughs)

GHAYOUMI: I guess part of the fact is they are used to hamburger, cheeseburger, and all this other stuff that, you know. It's hard, you know, you go to school, you eat at cafeteria. You know. And you go to friends' home, eat similar thing. Then it's, you know, hard to develop a taste for it. But again, as individual as I said, my oldest one likes, you know. But my other two kids they hate it, so...

JOHNSON: What are some of the main dishes that you make?

GHAYOUMI: Most dishes, Iranian dishes, they have rice as one of the main, you know, ingredients. Similar to Chinese. There is rice with different sauces that it goes over the rice. And they use chicken, beef, fish, you know. I mean 39:00everything except pork. They would not use pork because of the religious, you know, belief.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

GHAYOUMI: You know, just similar to Jews. You know, they don't believe in eating pork. So you don't find any pork in Indian--in Persian cuisine.

JOHNSON: Right. Well, with the idea that this interview will go into the archives um, for future generations to possibly listen to, do you have any stories or, or ideas or things that you'd like to add to the tape? For, future generations?

GHAYOUMI: Well I think, you know, one of the things that we need to do to, we need to send more time with our children. I think one of the problem we are facing with this generation, with guns and the school shooting, I think is combination of lack of time spent with the children. You know the type of programming that our children see everyday on television, or they see through the internet. (00:40:01) I think people, they should sit and say, "Enough is 40:00enough." Because you know, we are gradually desensitizing our kids to torture, to violence. So they are getting used to it. They see it everyday on television that, you know, to them it really doesn't have any meaning, you know. Seeing people dead, you know, it becomes to them something like, you know...noth--becomes something like is no big deal. We lost the human value here. We need to teach our children to respect others. We need to teach our children that, you know, we have no right to take somebody's life regardless of what their opinions are. We need to develop the attitude of tolerance for others. We need to teach the concept of god. Not brand of religions. Teaching them, you know, after all god didn't create us to fight like cats and dogs. 41:00Saying, "I'm better. You're worse. I'm going to heaven. You're going to hell." Or vice versa. We need to teach each other the main understanding. The Ten Commandments, you know. And to teach them to have loyalty to their parents. Respect parents. Respect older people. Respect animals. Respect environment. You know. And once we teach that, and also we incorporate that in our television program, incorporate that in our value system, in our school. Once we start doing that we will see changes. And I hope we will get to that realization soon because I can look back, I remember many, many years ago when in television, you couldn't even show the umbilicus. And now, almost you can see anything on 42:00television. And I look back and I say, "What has happened in past 25 years?" You know, why all of a sudden in 25 years the value has gone down? It's because as the parents, the majority of the parents are too busy parenting. You know, the media giants, we are building movies left and right, and nobody is there to say, "Hey, you know, if you make this type of movie we are not going to go see it." You know.

JOHNSON: Mhmm.

GHAYOUMI: Our parents, the parents they get these movies from Hollywood Video, Blockbuster, bring and encourage the kids to watch them. You know. And that's not right because by doing that you will have the decay of the moral value. And I hope we will go back to basic and encourage people to spend more time. 43:00Encourage people to spend more time, not one with their parents, with their neighbors, but also in their community. Do volunteer work. To realize maybe they are better socio-economic, you know, financially, but that doesn't mean we are any better than somebody lives in projects.

JOHNSON: Okay. One last question um, related to language. When did you first acquire English skills?

GHAYOUMI: Well, in Iran I went to private school, elementary school and private high school. But since I have no idea that someday I will end up here. I never took it seriously. So I almost tried to, the bare minimum to get by with English. And therefore, you know, when I came to United States, you know, my vocabulary, you know, was maybe total of, I knew maybe 20 words. "Yes," "no," 44:00and things of that nature. So I had to learn quick. And the best way was to mingle with people. And try to learn, and spend a lot of time. I remember there were times that reading one page would have to take me like three and a half, four hours. Because I had the dictionary in front of me, and I would look at the word, and then I would find the meaning, and then I would look at the meaning. It had ten different meanings to it. And then you will go ahead, I would go ahead and finish the sentence, when I tried to put them together it didn't make any sense. So I had to look there to see which one of those, you know, three, four, ten, whatever meaning would apply towards that sentence. So it was difficult, you know, going to school and then, you know, having the teacher to come and give a lecture, and then expect you to study a chapter. And then I 45:00would go to my apartment, and then I would look at the paper and it was like 30 page, and one page would take me four hours to finish it. (00:45:07) But the thing was, because you, you know, I continued repeating it, pretty much I noticed, you know, I would spend maybe three hours for one page. Then two hours for one page. And then over time it became to the point of maybe it was like one or two words I had to look up. And still to this day the speed is not there. Because, you know, I think once you get to the age of 18, 19, you can't, in most cases it's hard to change the accent. And at the same time, you know, it's hard to change, you know, the speed because you still, you know, are in the handicap position compared to the person that they were raised here. I know with my kids I did, I helped them with the study, and a lot of the time there is a word that they don't know the meaning of it, and I'll tell them, "This is what it means." But you give them a page and give me a page, (snaps fingers) they will be done at no time and I am still, you know, looking. So you know, it's still, you know, 46:00it's difficult. You can never master it to the same level that you did with your mother tongue.

JOHNSON: Yeah. So do you still speak Farsi?

GHAYOUMI: I speak Farsi and I speak Turkish also. I speak Farsi and Turkish fluently and uh, of course English is the third language I have learned.

JOHNSON: So do your children know some Farsi?

GHAYOUMI: My oldest one, she speaks very well. She is bilingual. But the second and third daughters, they understand some of the words, but not as good as my oldest one.

JOHNSON: And does your wife um, speak as well?

GHAYOUMI: Not, she knows few words. I mean she can, for example sit and greet 47:00someone comes to home, or ask them what they like to drink or, you know. And she can understand a lot of stuff. But as far as speaking she as difficulties. But nevertheless, she can communicate with someone and get by with what she knows.

JOHNSON: Yeah. So a lot of the relatives in the area, when you get together, there's two languages being spoken?

GHAYOUMI: Yes. You know, I mean depending on, we most--with my brothers I speak Farsi and there's, you know, if there are, you know, non-Farsi-speaking people, you know, then we speak English. But it's tough if you learn to speak with someone in Farsi, all of a sudden to change it to something is not as easy. So you know, we, you know, it's funny, you know, I don't remember even now a lot of Farsi words. Or sometimes I want to say something in Farsi and I can't remember. You know, it's easier for me to use the English word versus, you know, using Farsi. I guess with practice, you know, if you do more you will tend to retain it and remember it. But now that I'm past 40 it's getting difficult to recall 48:00the words that I haven't used for a long, long time.

JOHNSON: So, is it important to you that your children um, understand your mother language?

GHAYOUMI: I think it's important to learn any language, any language is very important. Any time you speak different language you are another person. I remember when I became naturalized citizen. One of the, and during the naturalization ceremony, the judge was saying, you know, one of the things that makes this country to be the greatest country is the melting pot of other people. And he said, "Because now you have become United States citizen, don't forget your motherland. Encourage your children your customs. Encourage your language. Because with that diversity we maintain our greatness." And I, to this day, I believe that judge was right. So it doesn't matter, you know, if, you 49:00know, you have a mother or father that is, you know, from different country. Even if they are parents that are American. Second, third, fourth, fifth generation, whatever. It's important for them to encourage their kids to learn another language. Being either German, French, you know. Spanish, you know. Anytime you learn another language it opens the door for you to understand another race.

JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

GHAYOUMI: You're very welcome. I enjoyed this.

JOHNSON: I did, too. (tape ends)

(00:49:44)