Oral History Interview with Sanda Crnkic

BARBARA DRUMMOND: I'm going to mess the name up again. How do you, how do you say your name again?

SANDA CRNKIC: Crnkic.

DRUMMOND: Crnkic

CRNKIC: Uh-huh.

DRUMMOND: Okay. And today is April 24th, and we are at the Brickyard Café and Sanda is from Bosnia. And the name, the home, name is again?

CRNKIC: Prijedor.

DRUMMOND: Prijedor. Okay. Prijedor, Bosnia. And we have talked about the uh (laughs), we're on the front porch of the Brickyard Café and we have talked a little bit about the um, (indeterminable) and everything. So, Sanda tell me a little bit about your hometown before the war.

CRNKIC: Before the war it was about, well it was smaller than Bowling Green.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: But kind of more developed in some ways. I mean bigger buildings and 1:00just no--that type of thing. Bigger downtown and it was peace--I loved it, you know. But I was just like twelve years old when I left, I didn't get to my real life in there or nothing, so.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm. What about your home? Like, describe your home, your house.

CRNKIC: My house? My parents and my brother and I lived in like, an apartment building. It's different like there, like you don't rent apartments, the firm you work for, like my mom worked for, they gave her the apartment to live it. It was ours. And it was like two bedroom apartment, big living room, kitchen, two bathrooms--no, one bathroom.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm. And um, so you shared a room with your brother then?

CRNKIC: Mhmm.

DRUMMOND: When you, what's the favorite thing--one second (laughs). We're on the 2:00front porch so there's going to be a lot of noise. Um, what was the most favorite thing about your apartment that you remember? Like your bedroom.

CRNKIC: Like my bedroom?

DRUMMOND: Yeah. Or just your room.

CRNKIC: My little shelf with dolls above my bed, I guess.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. Alright, so tell me about when you, when you left Bosnia.

CRNKIC: Mhmm.

DRUMMOND: When you left your home. In the war.

CRNKIC: (indeterminable)

DRUMMOND: The first, the day that you had to leave your house. Tell me about that.

CRNKIC: Okay. We moved from our apartment to my grandparents' house. We lived with them for a couple of months. My dad's family. And um, my mom went to Banja Luka, which is like an hour and a half traveling from where I'm from. And she 3:00comes back around twelve o'clock and she's like, "We're leaving today. In like, hour and a half." You know, but most of our things were already packed. But you know, we just all of a sudden, all of a sudden all these people were there, all our family, our friends, everybody was there. And I mean, it was really depressing and um, and um, my dad--let's see, how to do you say this? His best man from the wedding, he was in the army then, so he was going to drive us to (indeterminable) because it wasn't safe for us to go by ourselves because my dad (indeterminable). And we went there and the (indeterminable) that we were supposed to go with to Croatia was canceled. So we stayed at my mom's uncle's house who lived in Banja Luka, for maybe a week or two. And then we left.

DRUMMOND: How did you, you told me that you lived in the tent city on your way out?

CRNKIC: Yeah um, when we left Banja Luka (laughs)--when uh, oh. When we left Banja Luka we were in like, nobody's land, what do you call it? (laughs) It's between Bosnia and Croatia and that was like, army protocol (laughs), controlling that zone. Um, the (indeterminable) army was controlling that zone, and it was just like big tanks, you know. And there was like about 700 people 5:00living there, basically. You know, and there was like two bathrooms. One women's, one men's. Food was--we got two meals a day and it was like, they'd come in the morning with these big garbage bags full of bread. And you know how bread is when you like, cut it when it's really hot? You know.

(00:05:24)

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: Well, that kind of bread. But it wasn't cut, it was just chopped up into pieces. It had mud on it and everything else. And then, in the morning they were serving soup. You'd get like, a white soup in the morning, they'll add some red sauce and it was a red soup at night, you know. But the same thing basically. And then sometimes they would give us these little uh, tuna fish cans and twice we got the lunch bucket, and it was just like can of ham and some crackers to 6:00put that. You couldn't take showers for seven days. Well our, we were lucky because we were only there for seven days because we had family in Croatia, in Zagreb, the capital of Croatia. But uh, I know that there were people who were living there for about a year you know, with those conditions. So, it was pretty bad. And there was just like, ground (indeterminable), and I mean it--winters in Bosnia are cold, and snow and it was January. So, there was no heat, well there was like, the little heater things but I was not (indeterminable) 700 people, you know.

DRUMMOND: Yeah. How many people in one tent, that would stay in, sleep in a tent?

CRNKIC: That was just one tent for all 700 people.

DRUMMOND: One tent?

CRNKIC: Yeah

DRUMMOND: How did you divide up the tent then?

CRNKIC: Well, we had the bunk, bunk beds--how do you call them?

DRUMMOND: Bunk beds? Yeah.

CRNKIC: Yeah. So when we got there, there was like, I don't know how many was in 7:00one bed. We were standing up, we couldn't sit down it was so crowded. And we got our stuff, our you know, clothes and everything and we went inside and it was just like beds. All the beds were like, on one side. So you had to construct your own bed, bunk beds. And we had two bunk beds you know, so... It was like, my mom, my mom and me were sleeping in one. My brother was sleeping by himself. And my dad was sleeping by himself. And then we had food in one because mom and dad took some food with them, but it only lasted for a couple of days (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

CRNKIC: So. And we had these blankets and we like, you know, just put them on one side of the bunk beds so nobody could see you in there.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: You have some privacy at least, you know. And, but, the blankets were just wet, stinky, dirty, you know. Again my mom took mine and my brother's 8:00blanket from home and the sleeping bag, so....

DRUMMOND: What did you do during the day?

CRNKIC: Nothing, just sit there and wait for somebody to show up and tell us, "You can go."

DRUMMOND: Because, what were you waiting for then? In the tent? Like, because you had gotten there because you had leave because of the war, is that right?

CRNKIC: Basically we were waiting for--there was this Fisher organization, that guy he was German.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: His name, his last name was Fisher. And he had uh, couple of different places in Croatia where the refugees would go until they're able to go someplace else. But that was only if you're going to Germany. If you were going to the United States you weren't supposed to be there. And then my dad asked him if we could just drive in his bus to Croatia, to Zagreb. Because he has a, his cousin 9:00lives there.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: My uncle. And--my Uncle Martin. I call him uncle, but he's not my full uncle, anyway. And uh, they said that's fine but we had to pay something. So we did. And then when we got there uh, my dad's cousin's mother died. So, we couldn't just you know, go there right away.

DRUMMOND: (to somebody else) Bye.

CRNKIC: But uh, the deal was we could stay with them, the Fishers, you know. That was like an old school, you know, just couple of rooms with about 200 people in each. So it was a little better there (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

CRNKIC: It was much better. We stayed there for like, five days until they came and got us.

DRUMMOND: And how did the cousin die?

CRNKIC: I'm sorry?

DRUMMOND: How did the cousin die?

CRNKIC: Uh, my dad's cousin's mother?

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

CRNKIC: She was old. She just, it was natural cause.

DRUMMOND: Oh. But it was en route between...?

(00:10:02)

CRNKIC: Yeah, I mean like, she lived in a little apartment, you know.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: And we were supposed to stay with her. And the day that we moved to tent to Fisher's (indeterminable), she died. And the funeral was next day, and day after the funeral our cousin comes and gets us to live in his mother's apartment who died just a couple of days ago.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh. Oh, okay. What did you carry with you? When you had to choose something to take with you?

CRNKIC: What did I take with me? I took two of my Barbie dolls (laughs). Ken (laughs). Um, and clothes. I had a couple of tapes from Bosnia, you know. Um, this thread that we were making bracelets out of. What else did I take? Just 11:00some silly things. I can't remember right now. That's about it. That's all I can remember.

DRUMMOND: How about your family, the rest of your family?

CRNKIC: Well, we took our clothes with us. You know, just basically all of the warmer clothes, you know. Um, our pictures. Photo albums. Just you know, thanks that meant a lot, you know.

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

CRNKIC: That you could take with you. Even though sometimes, if they wouldn't let you take no photographs with you, no pictures over the border, you know.

DRUMMOND: They wouldn't?

CRNKIC: No.

DRUMMOND: That must be devastating.

CRNKIC: And then clothes, and things like the Bible, they wouldn't let you take that with you either. They would take it away. So my mom was wearing these 12:00boots--you know, like tall boots. And on the inside, she like, cut them on the inside and just took like, some thread and put like all of our rings and all of the jewelry on little pieces of thread, and stuck them in her boots and sewed it up on top. So she was carrying all of our jewelry in her shoes of like, four, five weeks.

DRUMMOND: And she made it?

CRNKIC: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: It all came in?

CRNKIC: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Are you wearing any of it?

CRNKIC: Not right now.

DRUMMOND: Not right now. It's the gold?

CRNKIC: It's gold, yeah.

DRUMMOND: Okay. Um, so how did you finally get out then?

CRNKIC: Oh, well, Croatia?

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

CRNKIC: Well, when we moved, when we came to Croatia we had an interview with American Embassy officer after like, a month. And then another interview after another month. And then they called us and they said, "We have a flight. In like, two weeks, in a week." So...That's about it.

DRUMMOND: What was your, what did you expect Bowling Green to be like?

CRNKIC: Well I first moved to moved to California.

DRUMMOND: Oh, okay.

CRNKIC: When we moved from Croatia. And then the way I was thinking every place in the United States going to be, including Bowling Green, is like, L.A., New York, Chicago. From things I've seen on T.V. And San Francisco, you know.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: So, basically I was expecting a little paradise, you know. Things like that.

DRUMMOND: So your first day was in California then?

CRNKIC: Uh-huh.

DRUMMOND: And how long did you live in California?

CRNKIC: For nine months, ten months.

DRUMMOND: What brought you from California to Bowling Green?

CRNKIC: My mom and dad couldn't get a job back there. We were on welfare for those nine months. Um, the place where most refugees from Bosnia were living in 14:00was just trash. And my parents didn't want us to live there, you know. It was like criminal--crime there, you know and things like that. So, we moved--that was in San Jose.

DRUMMOND: Okay.

CRNKIC: Where they living. So for first six we lived with our (indeterminable) friend who sent us the papers to come here.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: And then we decided to move on our own. So we moved to (indeterminable), but that's sort of expensive city, a little small town. So our apartment was nine hundred dollars back then. That was three years ago. It was nine hundred dollars, two-bedroom apartment. And we only were receiving seven hundred fifty for, to pay our apartment and all of the bills for it, you know, from our, from welfare. So they had to ask for more money every single month, you know. And then of course the bills and everything else, you know. So, we lived like that 15:00for nine months and decided to move. We had also some cousins who lived here.

(00:15:05)

DRUMMOND: Okay.

CRNKIC: In Bowling Green. But it was just impossible for them to get a job back there.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: In California.

DRUMMOND: So what about your first day in Bowling Green?

CRNKIC: Um, when our cousins came to pick us up from the--well, we moved, we came here on bus because my mom didn't want to fly in an airplane. So it was a four day trip from California to Bowling Green (laughs). Well, three days, two nights. Yeah, something like that. And they were, I don't know where exactly the little bus station was but they came to pick us up. And we were passing through downtown and I was like, "So, do you guys have a downtown?" And they're like, "This is it." And I was looking around, it was like maybe seven or eight o'clock at night in February. And I was looking around, I couldn't see nobody, I 16:00couldn't see no (indeterminable). I was like, "This is downtown?" And they're like, "Yeah!" Because (indeterminable), it was so much like Europe, you know. Like, little downtown with people walking every single night, little cafes, you know. I just couldn't get, couldn't believe that this was a downtown. It was so weird, different.

DRUMMOND: How did you, how did you find your first place to live? Here?

CRNKIC: We lived with our cousins for maybe a week. And then, well some people that (indeterminable) over our cousins, you know. They said, they told us that the apartment building they live in has apartments open, "Want to come over, check it out?" So we just decided to move there and we lived there for (indeterminable).

DRUMMOND: Alright, you, you've been going to high school here in Bowling Green.

CRNKIC: Mhmm.

DRUMMOND: What was your experience the first day you went to high school here?

CRNKIC: Well I finished eighth grade here also. And then I went to high school. But high school--in Europe, school is much more difficult and hard. I mean, you have basically thirteen different classes in seventh grade, you know.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: Each week. So I was expecting it to be so much harder than it actually is, you know. Like, is this, am I back in the fourth grade?

DRUMMOND: (laughs) How many Bosnians were in, went to school with you at that time?

CRNKIC: In high school?

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

CRNKIC: Well, there was a lot of us. There were a lot of Bosnians.

DRUMMOND: So, did you feel comfortable there, or...?

CRNKIC: Yeah, pretty much, you know, because I knew most of them already since I was living here for about a year. Well, maybe like seven months before I started high school, since I started, finished eighth grade here also.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

CRNKIC: I had friends here.

DRUMMOND: And you, could you speak English when you...?

CRNKIC: Uh, very little. Well, you know, I could understand a lot but I wasn't speaking it very good.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm. And now you work with the um, ESL classes?

CRNKIC: Yes.

DRUMMOND: At the...What do you think is the hardest thing for people who have just gotten here? To adjust to?

CRNKIC: The way of life. Everything's (indeterminable). You're always rushing.

DRUMMOND: Here?

CRNKIC: Yeah. You're always rushing somewhere. Especially if you go to school and work.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: It's just...My, my house is like a motel. I sleep there and have breakfast and that's about it (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Well you've worked since you got here.

CRNKIC: Yes.

DRUMMOND: At Houchen's.

CRNKIC: Mhmm. Yeah.

DRUMMOND: About how many hours a day?

CRNKIC: In Houchen's?

DRUMMOND: Or just, how many hours a day do you work?

CRNKIC: I work three hours every day, I believe. I do Friday and Saturday nights. Friday's usually like six hours, five hours. Saturday is double shift.

DRUMMOND: And you go to school full-time.

CRNKIC: Uh-huh.

DRUMMOND: What would, if you wanted to tell people something about your experience here, what would be, what would you want people to know?

CRNKIC: Just, not to get, depend on anybody, you know. To be independent, on their own from the very beginning. Because otherwise they'll just keep on you know, depending on somebody and not themselves, you know.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

(00:20:00)

CRNKIC: And to try to--I will wait (laughs). As much as possible the people from their country because otherwise the language will never come to them, you know. It's so hard. I mean, my dad is (indeterminable) there in Bosnia. He understands English but he can't speak at all. And that's (indeterminable). I mean, you have to realize that you have to start all over on your own again, you know. Starting from buying a simple spoon to eat with, you know. Building up to buying a car and a new house, things like that.

DRUMMOND: How about food? Buying food? Shopping for food here? What would you have...

CRNKIC: Well we have Golden Key, of course (laughs).

DRUMMOND: (laughs) Best chocolates around! Does your mother have a hard time 21:00cooking, or?

CRNKIC: No.

DRUMMOND: What kind of food do you eat?

CRNKIC: She always experiments with something. Now she's in Chinese (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

CRNKIC: Got these books. Chinese recipes. And she's always trying new things. And I like her cooking. (indeterminable) (laughs)

DRUMMOND: Do they miss it?

CRNKIC: I'm sorry?

DRUMMOND: Do they miss Bosnia?

CRNKIC: My parents?

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: Yeah. My dad would be like, "Your mom and me we're going to summers there." (indeterminable).

DRUMMOND: Do you have family there still?

CRNKIC: Um, all of my dad's family's there. Except for his sister and her family. And all my mom's family's there.

DRUMMOND: Alright, how about a children's story? Tell me a story, a children's story that you remember being told.

CRNKIC: A children's story?

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

CRNKIC: Hmm. (laughs) What's the--I don't know how you call it in English but "The Little Red Hat Girl." You know, the wolf and the whole chasing with granny.

DRUMMOND: Uh-huh.

CRNKIC: You know what I'm talking about?

DRUMMOND: "Little Red Riding Hood?"

CRNKIC: Yeah, exactly (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Okay.

CRNKIC: That, I think was the first story.

DRUMMOND: Okay, why don't you do "Little Red Riding Hood" in your language?

CRNKIC: No! No, no, no. No way I can do that.

DRUMMOND: You can't do it?

CRNKIC: No, please, please, please, please no.

DRUMMOND: Okay, you don't have to do that.

CRNKIC: Please, that's fine.

DRUMMOND: (laughs) I'm just um, for everybody that I've been interviewing, I've been having them say something in their language. And um, what would you like to say? You can say whatever you want. I just thought I'd get a story out of you (laughs). You don't have to--you don't have to do it.

(talking over each other)

CRNKIC: I know, but I won't...

DRUMMOND: You know I won't understand you. But the point is so that somebody who listens to the tape one day will have that story in the language.

CRNKIC: I don't know what to say (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Describe your grandmother.

CRNKIC: My grandmother?

DRUMMOND: Yeah.

CRNKIC: It's so much easier to describe it in English though (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Okay, well then tell me about your grandmother in English. Maybe you'll come up with something later.

CRNKIC: Okay, well I never met my mom's mother.

DRUMMOND: Mhmm.

CRNKIC: She died when my mom was in high school. So my dad's mom...She was--she was just so special to me, you know. She was a big (indeterminable). She took care of me since the day I was born until we moved from Bosnia (crying).

DRUMMOND: Oh, you want me to stop the tape?

CRNKIC: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Okay.

CRNKIC: And um, she was the type of person who would always put everybody else before themselves. And help everybody else that needs some help. Especially her 24:00grandchildren and her children. And um, she died the day we moved to Kentucky.

DRUMMOND: Oh.

CRNKIC: And she was always saying that she'd be able to rest in peace the day she knows that we're safe and sound. And that's exactly what happened. Sorry (laughs).

DRUMMOND: No, no. I'm sorry. Here, I'll stop the tape.

CRNKIC: Okay.

DRUMMOND: I'll stop the tape. Alright, I'm back with Sanda again, and um, we're getting ready to conclude the interview. And I just want to ask you, Sanda, what you would tell to your grandchildren, what you want them to know about your life here. Or your great grandchildren.

CRNKIC: I don't know. We're talking a lot about the past and life in Bosnia. And I would love them to hear this tape. But--and I would like to tell them, um, there's always two ways and one of those ways will always be a way out of any 25:00type of situation, you know. And just, you have to decide which way to take, you know. And even when you feel, you know, just feel down and like, hopeless, there will always be somebody, you know, who will be able to help you...(indeterminable).

(00:25:22)

DRUMMOND: Okay--will you say it in Bosnia now for them?

CRNKIC: Uh, let me think one more (laughs). Um... Um...

DRUMMOND: What?

CRNKIC: Can you stop the tape while I'm thinking?

DRUMMOND: Oh, that's okay.

CRNKIC: Okay.

DRUMMOND: Okay.

CRNKIC: Um...(laughs).

DRUMMOND: You can say anything. I know, I can't--

CRNKIC: It's hard--I mean, you know.

DRUMMOND: I know, it's hard.

CRNKIC: Things like that are hard to translate, you know.

DRUMMOND: Okay well you don't have to--

CRNKIC: Because I basically think in English.

DRUMMOND: Right. Do you? You think in English then?

CRNKIC: Oh...(speaking in Bosnian) (laughs).

DRUMMOND: That's good. And today is the fourth year that you've been in Bowling Green?

CRNKIC: Yeah.

DRUMMOND: Alright. Anything else that you'd like to add or tell us?

CRNKIC: No (laughs).

DRUMMOND: Okay. Well thank you very much, Sanda.

(00:26:46)