Oral History Interview with Patricia George

MAXINE RAY: . . . .Black students integrated the school at that time?

PATRICIA GEORGE: It was. . . . I can't exactly remember, but I'm saying it was just the high school students and it was probably forty-five to fifty, maybe more; because it was grade nine through twelve.

RAY: So how the community as a whole feel about integration? Were there any disturbances?

GEORGE: There were no disturbances whatsoever. I think the people at the Caldwell County High School really wanted us, because we had had a winning basketball team. And we had several of them--young men--were going to be able to go and play basketball and, in fact, they did. And that year, Caldwell County did go to the State Football Championship with some of these black young men. First time they'd ever played football. So they went out there and Caldwell County was put on the map once again. Christian and Caldwell County was put on the state map once again for having a good sports program. So I think with the guys being able to play basketball, and then just walking on out there playing football had a lot to do with it; and everything went very smooth. I’m sure we didn't hear any negative. And I’m sure somebody had some negative along the way, but we went to school there and we learned to respect the new system. And it was a change, kind of difficult for us, being grouped in classes and back to school where they had grades one through twelve. But in one room, it would be two grades, you know, like first and second, nine and ten, and so forth. But getting there to change, going from class to class, we did go change rooms at Dotson, but when we got to Caldwell, we had things to work with like a chemistry lab. I took chemistry that year, I was very excited. We had office machines . . . business classes. And the office machines at Dotson, we hadn't been exposed to any of those things so it was new experience for us. I only wish I could have gone more than one year now that I look back on it.

RAY: You were talking about the books and the equipment there. What about your books and equipment at Dotson before you got . . .

GEORGE: Okay, the books were hand-me-down books from Caldwell County. My books might have had all the pages, but say if your ( ) students there; your books might not have all the pages so they were hand-me-down books from Caldwell. When I was in my first year in high school, we had to purchase our books, you know; but then later on during that time they would just give us their hand-me-down books. They would be so outdated and all that. I wish I could, just have one of the books or something to show you. But everything was outdated. Things were handed down to us from the other schools here in Caldwell County.

RAY: When you got to Caldwell County, what were some of the other classes that you had?

GEORGE: Well, at Dotston we were offered just the basics like English, Algebra, Math, history, things like Health/P.E., things like that. So alternating years, you know, one year I might. . . . and I might of missed a year because we alternated there. Like one year we would study. . . . maybe if I was in the tenth grade, we would be studying the ninth curriculum. So I might have somewhere down the line missed something. But, when we got to Caldwell we were able to chose--to pick and choose what classes we wanted to take. Some of them took art. I took some business classes, and chemistry and things like that; and we were able to go to labs. In fact, I think some of them even enrolled in band that year, not having band at Caldwell, I mean at Dotson. So were just able to sit down and pick. Someone came over from the school prior to the Fall, getting ready for the Fall; and helped us select the classes that we wanted to take, and sort of guided us through that process.

RAY: Did you have any kind of racial tensions between the teachers at this Caldwell County High School?

GEORGE: If we did. . . . if we did, if it was it was never displayed there. I am sure it was. There was rumors that one of the teachers quit because he didn't want to teach the black kids, but that's strictly a rumor, I know nothing about that. There was no tension whatsoever the first day. Our parents didn’t even go to school with us the first day of integration. I’m sure somebody was watching out for us, and probably they had some parents watching out, but everything was very peaceful in those days.

RAY: What kind of instruction did your parents give you just before you went to Caldwell?

GEORGE: Well, they just told us to do our best; the main thing was to go and behave. And, of course, you know, there are going to be some on both sides that’s going to misbehave. They are going to call names and whatever. But I wasn’t confronted with any of that.

RAY: Did you have any kind trouble with any of the students there?

GEORGE: Well you know boys and girls are going to be boys and girls no matter what color they are. And there was a few fights. But we had a Principle at Caldwell County High School, that he didn’t play favorites to nobody, whatever color you were. You would get just punishment out of that.

RAY: What was your Principle’s name?

GEORGE: The late William F. Brown.

RAY: After you got to Caldwell County, did you have any black teachers?

GEORGE: No. The black teachers that were in the high school system—I think, and I’m not really sure--I think were reassigned in the lower grades here at the Dotson school. But no, there were no black faculty there whatsoever.

RAY: Did you have any kind of Black History classes?

GEORGE: No, None at all.

RAY: Can you remember your favorite class?

GEORGE: At Caldwell County my favorite class. Hmm. Not really. I think that I really enjoyed having all of them. Being exposed to things that I hadn’t, and if I had to pick I would say the government class that I took that year was one--would probably be my favorite class.

RAY: Well, did you hear anything—did they incorporate any kind of black history in any of the classes? Any of the teachers?

GEORGE: No. Because they didn’t know anything about black history.

RAY: Was there any kind of conflict with the City? You know the Commissioners, or the Mayor or anything that anybody put up any kind of argument about the black students going to

( )?

GEORGE: No. It passed unanimously, when the parents carried them the signatures; and I think that it was twenty-two or twenty-three parents that signed the petition and presented it to the School Board that it just went over real well. I do know that the petition was circulated in the churches, and places here in the city; and I think that it was twenty-two parents that went down, or twenty-two parents and guardians that went down and signed that and carried it to the School Board so there was no problem whatsoever. Like I said earlier, sports had a lot to do with that.

RAY: Well when did the black teachers get into Caldwell County?

GEORGE: It was later when the entire system closed--when they closed Dotson school forever. And I think that was later on in the sixties. We went there in the Fall of sixty-three at the high school, and it was three or four years later and they started taking the aides. And some of their teachers were reassigned within the Caldwell County school system. There were none in the high schools for a while; most of them were reassigned to the elementary and junior high level in the system.

RAY: Well how did your community feel about losing the predominantly black school all together?

GEORGE: Ah it was never discussed. But I think they felt—I am sure like I said we heard—we didn’t hear the negatives, you know. At that time we had a group of parents--of citizens that kept the negatives from their children. If it was any negative it was discussed away from the children. So I’m saying it was probably some negatives, but when the entire system integrated I was not here, I was away in school so—but we do know that we did—we had--they went to aide positions and to guidance counselor positions and some teachers.

RAY: Did you have a local NAACP at that time?

GEORGE: I think we did and I’m not really sure. We have had NAACP, but right now we don’t and at that time we probably did. But I’m saying that the parents were ah—the parents were the ones that motivated us.

RAY: Well can you think of anything else that you would like to tell me about your school or …?

GEORGE: Well, during that time—that year of the first year we had a separate Prom. Okay. At the high school they had a party—usually the juniors and seniors had a Prom—but that year they had a little party, a little get together for the juniors and seniors at one of the high schools. But they had—and then the white people—and I hate to use that term had a Prom for their children, and our parents got together and us a Prom. They rented a building, the local Masonic hall, and they had us a band, and we put on our evening gowns just like we were going; and they had us a Prom too. So we had a Prom. And like I said our parents got together and talked it over and they pooled their money to do whatever it was to make us happy.

RAY: That is real interesting.

GEORGE: I need to tell you also about—what happened to Dotson after ( ). Well, after full integration Dotson school became a workshop for handicapped people, and it burned; and now you pass--it’s now just forest and playground. The city gave it back to ( ) in 1980 or eighty-one, I’m not sure—for the community to have a park and playground. At first they were going to build houses there, and there is only one house there. But now it is a park and playground and it is governed by the black community. They have their own Park Board Directors, which I am the Secretary for the Park Board. And we run the park the city pays for the upkeep, but we govern it—what happens there.

RAY: Oh. So what kind of city government do you have? City Commissioners or …?

GEORGE: We have City Council—Mayor and City Council ( ).

RAY: Oh, okay. So this is comes under the Mayor and City Council?

GEORGE: Mayor and City Council. Right now we have seven members, and when somebody decides to get off or somebody—I hate to say it—passes away then with the recommendation of the Park Board—the present Park Board of Directors--they recommend somebody and they present that name to the City Council and the Mayor, and they act upon it.

RAY: That’s interesting.

GEORGE: Every August, the first full weekend in August, everybody that ever went to Dotson School, whether they graduated or not comes back for a reunion, and bring their families. So this has been going on for twenty years.

RAY: Oh, ( ) the food and all the outlay for the …

GEORGE: They have food, they have the band, they give the—the city officials come up and the city—they’ll give a piece of the city to somebody from the com—it used to be a Dotson student, but they kind of strayed away. The Dotson student come back, and one of them will respond to the Mayor and ( ) and just ( ) and say welcome so they present the commission people into the seat. Band nights--the County Judge has one called the Grand Old Night, and then some of us have been commissioned as Kentucky ( ), during that ceremony. And in 1988 I was commissioned the Kentucky ( ) during that celebration. And I ‘d like to say that during—when we get together now, I get together with my class. Last year we celebrated our thirty-fifth class reunion and being the only girl I, ( ) being the only girl I always get a lot of welcome. And I just passed—last year in 1999, of course we celebrated our thirty-fifth year and we went out and had a wonderful evening with my class-mates. So, it’s always, “Pat George are you coming to the reunion?” And I’ll say, “Yes, no, maybe.” Till they offer to come and pick me up so I’ll go, next year I’ll get there. But the class on the whole turn out to be a nice class.

RAY: This is black students and white students?

GEORGE: Yes. That is correct. ( ) a reunion. Each class now, they ask their black students to come back to have a reunion.

RAYL ( ).

GEORGE: When we were—when I was in school the Dotson School used to be a school for the surrounding counties. Like people came here from Cadiz, Marion, Hopkinsville, Fredonia and around the ( ). But then later on they got their own black school systems, so when I was in school nobody came from Cadiz or Hopkinsville. They did come from Fredonia, which is in Caldwell County and Cobb. There is nobody there from Marion from my years of—maybe my early years when I was in the grade school, it was; but then later on they started getting their own school and so there wasn’t so many there.

RAY: Well you were the only female in your whole senior class? Or just the …?

GEORGE: Yeah, I was the only ( ) in the whole senior class. When I started out in the first grade in Dotson it was several young ladies. Some of them moved away, and others—I think one or two of them might have died. And then as we got into the high school years we had the young ladies to drop out. So when I was in the eighth grade—and from the sixth grade to the eighth grade it was only two of us. And then we got to the eighth grade she dropped out, so that just left me, the only female with five men. Five young boys, young men. But in the ( ), like I told you, it was two classes. So one year I was with two—three girls, and then one year I was with four girls, you know at Dotson. But when it got to Caldwell I was the only senior—black senior girl.

RAY: Exciting. Did you think that the females in your communities, maybe your mothers, or aunts or grandmothers, what kind of part did they play in this elimination of segregation?

GEORGE: Well, I’ve got to say this, the—my grandmother raised us. So my grandmother was getting up into years, but she didn’t have anything negative to say. But they played a lot—my aunt who was the late Mrs. Ophelia Groom--she went to the meetings, you know. And her and her daughter, Mrs. Purvis Bishop, they went to the meetings to see what was going on. But I would say that my family was very supportive. The day I graduated they were there, and it was just—they were supportive of all the things. You know, they made sure that we had the things that we needed to work with as students, you know—there was no question about, “Can you get it?” ‘Cause my aunt worked with some of the people in the school system--some of the white people in the school system so therefore she—she knew who to call and to find the answer. There was no question about it. They supported us ( ).

RAY: Can you tell me who was one of your Civil Right heroes?

GEORGE: What? In Princeton or …?

RAY: In Princeton, or nationally or anywhere. One that you all looked up to or talked about a lot in school, or in class among yourselves—black students. Did you have a local one?

GEORGE: Well, no we didn’t have a local one, but we looked to somebody just down the road in Paducah. Was a man named Curly Brown. He was a man active in the NAAPC, to get things in Paducah and that area. So I guess you would say Curly Brown to be somebody on the maybe local level. But Martin Luther King because—and Rosa Parks, you know. They would come out and just be bold about doing things.

RAY: Ah, did any of them ever come by Princeton?

GEORGE: No. (laughs)

RAY: Well, they traveled a lot.

GEORGE: They traveled …

RAY: Well, you know—all right. Tell me a little bit about your church. Was there any kind of activities in church or any kind of meetings maybe, on Civil Rights or you all going to school or anything like that?

GEORGE: No. There were no meetings about anything. Just like those petitions were the only things that circulated in the black churches, or in the black community. There were places in the city that blacks weren’t welcome, you know, downtown. For instance, there was a place called the Dairy Bar. And until later, you know, we couldn’t go in the Dairy Bar, we had to go to the side window and get what we wanted. But once—when the school got integrated we could go and sit in these places. But at the theatre—there was a separate entrance at the theatre for blacks. We would have to go through this door and go upstairs. But once the school system became, you know, integrated and they knew we were allowed to go downstairs—what they called downstairs. But then some of us continued to go upstairs, and we got a good view for what was going on.

RAY: Well, were there any all black theatres here in the …?

GEORGE: No. During—well after the early fifties and my research on black ( ) in Caldwell County, a lot of the black businesses had begun to disappear. So, you know, things were mainly owned by white people. Just here in Princeton the black businesses had gone out.

RAY: Can you remember any of the black businesses that were here?

GEORGE: That were here? When I was …?

RAY: In the early fifties or before.

GEORGE: Before, yeah, in my research—this is not to my knowledge—we used to have a black newspaper. Okay? And that disappeared, I think the last issue of that was end of the fifties. And then we had two—we had a ( ), we had a funeral home, we had a black day—not a black day care—we have a black day care now. We had a black kindergarten. A lady had a black kindergarten. And funeral home, ice cream parlor, plenty of restaurants and some—in doing that research somebody said they had a hat shop here. And so at one time—Princeton--the black people in Princeton did thrive. I was told that downtown there was a black hotel, but I don’t know anything about that. And still today, some of the buildings downtown are owned by black people; but they are descendents and they don’t live here.

RAY: Well, can you think of anything else that you want to tell me?

GEORGE: Princeton and Caldwell County, like I said, today not much ( ) goes on here but there is going to be some, but no matter, all in all Princeton is a very quite place to live and to grow up. And I relish the day when I can sit here and sometimes I say I wish I had left, but I’m glad to be ( ).

RAY: ( ).

GEORGE: ( ) ( ) there weren’t any racial problems. We did have young people that would leave and go to some of the rallies, you know, in Lexington, Louisville and places like that. I didn’t go. But there was no racial problems in—I was in Kentucky State then and ( ). So you know, all in all I’ve had a good relationship with ( ). The things that I do with—that growing up and being a part of—growing up during this period of time. I guess we can say that integration just happened in Princeton, ‘cause we really didn’t know anything about going to Caldwell County High School until it had actually happened. So I can just say we didn’t know anything, and that just kept us out of it. And I don’t know why we weren’t told prior to the announcement—prior to the petition ( ). I’m sure that the people that got together to do that had a good reason why not to tell us. And integration, like I said, it just happened. But I had some fears of what was going to happen, when I got to Caldwell County High School: ‘cause some of those white girls there—I had some of their hand-me-down clothes on—recognize their clothes that they give me. If they did they didn’t say anything about it. They turned out to be good friends, and they are still good friends with us; some of them are. And I gotta say that there was a lady here during that time. The lady was Eloise ( ), she was librarian at the time, and she made sure that the black kids knew what books to buy, and what to do when they got to school. So you could say that Mrs. ( ), along with Mr. Brown, kind of made things smoother for the black students. But you have to give credit to anybody for making integration—the transition—not integration—the transition from an all black school to a white and now newly integrated white and you’d have to say that those two people.

RAY: Now when did you find out that you were going to this school?

GEORGE: After the petition had been signed, and came out in the local newspaper, and they told us at school then, you know. And some of the officials from the school system came over and brought us selections we would have from classes that were offered, and what we could take as sophomores, juniors, seniors and whatsoever. I also want to say that Dotson, just began—we had a gym at our school, but the white boys came up and practiced their basketball in our gym. And our boys would have to wait until after they got through and go back—they had probably gone--they went home and come back and practiced basketball later. And the white boys would be running through there when we were getting out of school at three o’clock to use our gym. But then when we got a good basketball team, they were able to go down--and the last year that we were at Dotson--they were able to go down and play some of their games in the Caldwell County gym. And the gym would be packed with both races.

RAY: Okay now, the white students would come over and practice—was this before you all integrated?

GEORGE: Before integration. They come through there every afternoon. We would be ready to come home. They’d run through there with their little basketball uniforms on to practice ball in our gym; because for a while they just—they had a old gym and they didn’t have a nice gym. So we had a good gym at Dotson and they came over and practice basketball every day.

RAY: Did they play any of their games in your …?

END SIDE ONE TAPE ONE

START OF TAPE ONE SIDE TWO

RAY: Now how did you all get to school, to the Caldwell County . . .

GEORGE: To the Caldwell County High School? We walked.

RAY: Was it very far?

GEORGE: It's not that far but I can tell you how we did it. We walked in groups. Okay, then at the end of this street, my sister and I would run down the street, and as we go down the street, more people would join us and we have our little meeting places. So when we left here, we would. . . .it was some more children that lived across the street. We'd all start out and we would walk down--this is Donovan Street--down Donovan Street. And the more we got there, and then when we got to Green Street, there at the church, the preacher's daughter would join us and others; and we walked to school in groups. And each. . . . there was more groups that our group and we all walked to school in groups and came home in groups. But this was nothing like racially motivated, this was just friends getting together, walking to school. When I was at Dotson's, we walked to Dotson's. Everybody walked except the children that lived in the county. The Dotson School was within walking distance. We didn't even have a school bus. We had people that transported the students from the county in their private vehicles. So, uh, then earlier I was told that some of the counties, people that lived in the county, had to walk into town to school. But, uh, no, we just walked to school and it was fun. And we just . . . .and that's what went on during the day, or what had gone on, but it was fun. No matter how cold. . . .now when it did rain, and we'd get to school and snow, and we would be there without an umbrella or whatever, somebody, some of the parents would get together and those that had cars--not many people during the early sixties in this community had vehicles like everybody's got one or two now--and they would get together and somebody would pick us up and bring us home if we got caught there, you know. But, it if rained in the morning, you know, somebody did.

RAY: But when you were at Kentucky State, tell me about. . . .did you all have any kind of civil organizations, like SNICK or CORE?

GEORGE: No, at Kentucky State there were no civil organizations whatsoever. Like I said, it was a quiet time there at Kentucky State, and it was only a very few white students. And, in fact, I lived in Kentucky Hall, and I don't think it was a black female, I mean a white female, that lived in that hall. And I think most of them lived there in the Frankfort area, or commuted from Lexington or Louisville or somewhere. But it was only very few white people there. Very few white instructors there, also. Dotson did play Caldwell in basketball prior to the integration and there was never any ( ) or tension whatsoever between the players and among the fans, probably not, because it was good rivalry. And then when it started, I got to say that the Dotson guys were good basketball players, all of them--most of them--all of them; even the ones that went on to graduate and play for Caldwell that they did come out and shake hands. And they became good friends, too, when they got to Caldwell; they played basketball, and they came out. And there at one time, I remember one night it was five--for Caldwell County--it was five black boys out there playing. And then, of course, the substituted a couple of the good white players in there, but at one time there were five black fellows out there representing the team. They had a balanced team that year, both black and white.

RAY: Did you have any black cheerleaders?

GEORGE: At Dotson we did but when we got to Caldwell, no. We didn't have any black cheerleaders until later on, and then they started to have black cheerleaders. And nobody was black in the band when I was there. It took a couple of three years to get them into the band. We were able to join some of the clubs, you know, they had at the school. And there, I think it's just open to everybody because they have black band students and they have black cheerleaders and the blacks participate these days in anything that's offered there that they want to get into.

RAY: Well, Mrs. George, I want to thank you for letting me interview you and this has been a very pleasant interview.

GEORGE: Thank you very much.

END TAPE ONE SIDE TWO

END OF INTERVIEW