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BETSY BRINSON: This is an interview with Loraine Mathis in her residence in Paducah, Kentucky, and the interviewer is Betsy Brinson.

BRINSON: Mrs. Mathis, just so I can get a voice level, would you give me your complete name please?

LORAINE MATHIS: Loraine Mathis.

BRINSON: Okay and tell me where and when you were born.

MATHIS: I was born in Bolivar, Tennessee.

BRINSON: Bolivar?

MATHIS: Yes and my mother brought me here when I . . . I guess I was about ten months old, and so I grew up here.

BRINSON: Okay and what your birth date? Now, I know you don't want to tell me what year you were born but it's important for me to get some sense of when so I know what kinds of questions to ask you as you were growing up and what not.

MATHIS: Well . . .

BRINSON: Would it have been 1940?

MATHIS: Before then.

BRINSON: Before that?

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: Nineteen thirty or. . . .

MATHIS: Yeah, before that.

BRINSON: Okay, well that's good enough. That helps me.

MATHIS: Okay, okay.

BRINSON: Well, you were saying that your mother brought you here when you were a small child . . .

MATHIS: My mother and father.

BRINSON: Okay and what year did you come to Kentucky? Do you know that with a . . .

MATHIS: I wouldn't know since I was only ten months old.

BRINSON: Right, but . . .

MATHIS: Okay.

BRINSON: Has anybody ever told you how long you lived in Kentucky or. . . .

MATHIS: Well, she just said all of my life.

BRINSON: All your life?

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: Okay, so this is really home to you?

MATHIS: This is home, yes.

BRINSON: Could you begin please by telling me a little bit about your early family, who was in your family; and if you knew anything about your grandparents or your ancestors; stories that you might have heard from your parents?

MATHIS: My grandfather was a minister and they were . . . their home was in Bolivar, Tennessee.

BRINSON: Their home was in Bolivar?

MATHIS: Bolivar, Tennessee, and they had fourteen children. And my parents, my father lived in Whitesville, Tennessee. That's just a small community right out of Bolivar, Tennessee. That is what they told me.

BRINSON: Okay and did you ever know your grandparents?

MATHIS: I knew my mother's father and mother, and I saw my father's father one time. I didn't see his grandmother and grandfather and I didn't know his mother, but I saw his father one time. Would you like to know what he told me about them?

BRINSON: Sure.

MATHIS: He told me that my grand . . . great . . . my grandfather, my great grandfather was white and my great grandmother was a full-blooded Indian.

BRINSON: Did you know . . . did you have any brothers or sisters?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: And where were you? How many did you have and how many children were in your family?

MATHIS: My mother had ten children and I was the oldest.

BRINSON: You were the oldest?

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: Okay.

MATHIS: And, of course, three of them passed away when they were babies.

BRINSON: How did your family make their living, Mrs. Mathis?

MATHIS: My immediate family?

BRINSON: Uh-huh.

MATHIS: My father worked at a lumber mill and my mother didn't work.

BRINSON: And the lumber mill was here?

MATHIS: Here in Paducah, Kentucky.

BRINSON: Okay. Can you tell me a little bit please about your education, your early education? That was here in Paducah, too?

MATHIS: Yes, at Lincoln High School and Lincoln Elementary School.

BRINSON: Okay, and that was an all-black school, wasn't it?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: Okay, and how far did you go? Did you graduate?

MATHIS: I graduated from high school. I also graduated from PCC.

BRINSON: And do you remember what year you graduated from high school?

MATHIS: I needed all that information. [Laughing] I think it was 1936.

BRINSON: Okay, and so at that point it would have been an all-black school?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: Do you recall at what point in your growing up that you recognized that this was a segregated society?

MATHIS: I knew it all of my life because at one time they had restrooms, had colored and white. We could not eat at the counter in Woolworth's nor Kresge's, and they had these signs at the courthouse so I've known it all my life.

BRINSON: The signs at the courthouse would tell you what?

MATHIS: White and colored, not black; white and colored, yes. And there were places that if you went to a restaurant to eat, you would either have to go to the back door, back part, or stand at the window and get the handout, the carryout.

BRINSON: Did you know enough while you were growing up to be able to know any differences between the black and the white school?

MATHIS: Of course I did.

BRINSON: What can you tell me about that?

MATHIS: Because . . . at our school we had a football team and most of the time they never had new uniforms. They got the uniforms that were left over from Tilghman School.

BRINSON: How about your textbooks?

MATHIS: Our textbooks were different. We knew that.

BRINSON: They were different?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: How were they different?

MATHIS: Well, some of the textbooks they had we didn't, you know, we didn't go through that, and some of them were the same but some of them were different.

BRINSON: Okay, were they new textbooks?

MATHIS: Well, my parents bought my books so I don't know. Some of the books weren't new, you know, they were given to the school and they weren't new; but my parents bought my books.

BRINSON: Do you know, were the used textbooks textbooks that had been used at the white school and then passed on?

MATHIS: Well, you could see the inscription in there, property of Paducah Public School.

BRINSON: I'd be interested . . . how many people were in your graduating class, for example? Just approximately.

MATHIS: I know approximately but I don't have that material with me because some dropped out before they graduated, and I've got that material exactly but I'm not positive.

BRINSON: I'm really just trying to get a sense of the size of the student. . . .

MATHIS: Maybe about thirty-five or thirty-six.

BRINSON: How many do you think might have dropped out?

MATHIS: Quite a few.

BRINSON: I wonder if you can tell me anything about your teachers and, in particular, this may be hard, I'm interested in knowing where they got their training to be teachers?

MATHIS: I'm not sure where they got their training but all of my teachers were great teachers. Especially Mr. Sled. He was my math teacher and he was a great teacher. And my History was Mrs. Weston, my English teacher was Mrs. Hodge . . .

BRINSON: Hodge?

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: H-o-d . . .

MATHIS: H-o-d-g-e.

BRINSON: I might occasionally ask you to spell a name. That's so that the person that transcribes . . .

MATHIS: Margie Hodge.

BRINSON: Will know, will spell it correctly.

MATHIS: Okay, and my science teacher, one of them was Mr. Withrow and I can't think of the name of the one before him.

BRINSON: Did you study any what you probably would have called Negro History or anything like that?

MATHIS: Yes, Mrs. Weston was my Negro History teacher. Mrs. Alice Weston.

BRINSON: And do you remember what kinds of things you learned from her?

MATHIS: I learned quite a few things. I knew about the Underground Railroad, I knew about Benjamin Banneker, I knew about the man who . . . did the first blood operation. I knew quite a few things from her; all of those things I learned from Mrs. Weston.

BRINSON: So when you graduated, what happened then for you? What did you do next?

MATHIS: Well really, I went to West Kentucky School for awhile. I didn't graduate from West Kentucky but I went there. And I took courses because I had planned on taking cosmetology, and I took all of the courses I was suppose to take for that . . . for cosmetology. And then I took the courses we had to take leading up to cosmetology and other courses, too.

BRINSON: And Western Kentucky at that point was an all-black school . . .

MATHIS: It was.

BRINSON: With a great deal of name recognition nationally as I understand. Did you have students in your classes that came from outside of Kentucky?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: Can you remember where they might have come from?

MATHIS: Not exactly at this point . . . you know, not exactly at this point.

BRINSON: And how long were you a student there?

MATHIS: Until I graduated. I graduated . . .well, I went from the elementary school--which we went to the seventh grade--from the seventh grade to the high school and then I graduated from high school.

BRINSON: Okay, I didn't ask that right. How long were you at Western Kentucky studying your cosmetology?

MATHIS: Not quite two years.

BRINSON: And then what?

MATHIS: Then I had a job and I was almost like you would call a full-time volunteer, doing things in the community that would help my fellow man, from one thing to another. And then later, I met and married Henry Mathis and then my children were born. And when my two youngest children were . . . they were about to graduate from high school, I went to PCC.

BRINSON: Let me stop and ask you some questions about all of that. Your husband's name?

MATHIS: Henry A. Mathis.

BRINSON: Mathis?

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: Okay, and how did you meet your husband?

MATHIS: Well, just one day I was walking home and I happened to . . . he came across and talked to me. And I had a bicycle and I was riding the bicycle and my bicycle broke down, so he loaned me his bicycle. And from there well, we started talking to each other and then later he asked me to marry him.

BRINSON: Was he from Paducah?

MATHIS: No, he was from Dresden, Tennessee.

BRINSON: Dresden, Tennessee? Okay and what brought him to Paducah?

MATHIS: His mother and father brought him here because his father was a concrete man. And then later, Henry went into the concrete. At first he was working at McGraw's . . .

BRINSON: And McGraw's. . . .?

MATHIS: The plant here.

BRINSON: What kind of a plant is McGraw's?

MATHIS: It was like . . . it was built . . . it was out there where the plant is now. And he worked there as a carpenter, in carpentry. Uh-huh.

BRINSON: You said that for a while you had a job but you were also like a one hundred percent volunteer?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: What kinds of activities were you involved in with that?

MATHIS: All type of activities. When my fellow men and women needed help, whether they were white, black, it didn't matter. Some were incarcerated. I had to go and talk to the judge to sort of help get them out of trouble. Some needed help through the welfare system. I would go there and talk to them. Some would need rent for housing, need their money for their rent for housing, or some were homeless and didn't have a home so I had to go and talk to the proper people to try to help get them in housing. Some of the children needed clothing and, of course, I knew some of the social workers; and sometimes they had clients who needed clothing. Well, I knew quite a few people in the community, white and black, where I could get clothing for them and I did that. Food, it didn't matter. Whatever.

BRINSON: Were you active in the church?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: Which church would that be?

MATHIS: I grew up in Mt. . . . in Husband Street Baptist Church which is name Mt. Maria now. It was right on the corner of Tenth and Husband Street. And later, my husband had joined Mt. Zion Church, so I felt like the children and I should go over there after . . . well, that was later because when the housing project was built over there; see our church was right on the corner of Tenth and Husband. They bought our church and then we moved to Sixth and Ohio Street to that church, and it was called Sixth Street Baptist Church then. And then after they moved from there, it was called Mt. Maria. Well I joined over to Mt. Zion Church when I was a member of Sixth Street Baptist Church.

BRINSON: At what point did you join the NAACP?

MATHIS: I was a member of the NAACP when my children were small because I would go to the meetings and take my babies with me to the meetings. So I joined as a young woman when I had young children.

BRINSON: And I know from the President of the NAACP now, Mr. Perry . . .

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: That you held a leadership position, you were an officer?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: Tell me about that.

MATHIS: I was Third Vice-President--not at that point, earlier--because I was a member before Mr. Cleary became President. I joined when Curly Brown was President. And I didn't have a leadership role, but I worked hard in there trying to get new members, trying to help with the voter registration; and at that time, we didn't have our banquets catered. We would work, the ladies and--I was a part of the group--we would cook our food for the banquet, serve it, help sell tickets, help get donations for the banquet, so we didn't have it catered at that time. And whatever I could do, I would do it.

BRINSON: Tell me about cooking the food for the banquet. I understand from Ms. Taylor that at least she . . . I don't know if this is true, but some of the women would get together at different people's houses and cook together for the banquet?

MATHIS: That's the way we would do it. We would cook. My husband would get the . . . well, we had to get donations from different stores so he would get all of the turkeys from the A & P Store because he knew quite a few of the persons who were affiliated with A & P Store, especially the butcher. And he would get all of the turkeys, and we would get the other food that was needed like potatoes if we were going to have potato salad, or we would make cakes and prepare the salad. We would get rolls donated and we would get monetary donations, whatever.

BRINSON: Was there a food that you prepared especially that you like to cook for the banquet?

MATHIS: Sometime dessert, sometime potato salad.

BRINSON: What kind of dessert?

MATHIS: Cakes and pies. [Laughter] But we would get together at various homes and we would cook the food; sometime we were up all night. And we, who had small babies, we would carry our babies with us and sometime we were up almost all night; and then go the next day and get ready for the banquet.

BRINSON: Tell me a little bit about the voter registration efforts here through the NAACP. How did you go about registering new voters?

MATHIS: Well later . . . I'm a member, well I was before I retired from it. I was a member of the Democratic Executive Committee for twenty-eight years and I was taught how to do voter registration and then I taught many other people how to do voter registration. And W. C. Young and I would work extensively with the young people, especially after I became . . . well, I did that before I became an advisor of the youth in the NAACP. We would work with the young people and teach them what they could do. And I would . . . well, I work with W. C. and I would get a . . . say for an instance I would ask a lady to work with a group of maybe ten or twenty youth and we had quite a few. We would go door-to-door on . . . well, just before Election Day and put out the literature. But backing up a little bit, we would go door-to-door to get people registered to vote. And we would . . . in turn, we would also teach the young people what they could do when they became old enough to vote. And . . . we would just go in all the projects, just door-to-door in the predominately black communities because we wanted our people to register and vote. Now we would work with white people, too, it just didn't matter, if they were in that area but we really wanted our people registered to vote because we told them it is important that you vote.

BRINSON: The voter registration, would you have started that in the sixties?

MATHIS: Seem like we started that before the sixties.

BRINSON: Before the sixties? Okay, maybe in the fifties or. . . .

MATHIS: Maybe.

BRINSON: Okay, and at the time that you started the voter registration efforts, were there any black elected officials in Paducah?

MATHIS: After we did that, Reverend Harvey, you know we worked to help get him a city commissioner. And then after Reverend Harvey, we worked to help get Robert Coleman as a city commissioner which he is today.

BRINSON: Tell me please about W. C. Young. I don't know much about him at all. Is he living?

MATHIS: No, he's dead. But he was affiliated with the union and the AFL-CIO.

BRINSON: But he was active with you also . . .

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: In the NAACP?

MATHIS: Yes. We worked together. While he was doing the union part and the NAACP, and we worked along with the union part and the NAACP. And we thought it was important to teach the young people that it's important that you vote when you--we are going to teach you what to do and how to do it, and then mostly only--well just before election day, we would--as I stated, forestated--put the literature door-to-door. We wouldn't tell them who to vote for, we would just ask them, "Will you please consider voting because it's important that you vote." And then on Election Day, we would have the young people to man the telephone, and then if we needed them to help baby-sit while the mother or father would go to vote, they learned how to do that. And we just felt like it was important that they learn how to . . . the political process, so W. C. and I worked closely doing that.

BRINSON: Did he hold a leadership . . . did he have an elected position within the NAACP?

MATHIS: At one time, I think he did. But, but we all just sort of worked together to try to make it what it should have been. And then we worked . . . well, I didn't only work with the NAACP, I worked with the union, too, in order to try to get out the vote.

BRINSON: Tell me about that a little bit, about the union.

MATHIS: Well, they had a union hall right there on Seventh and Washington Street. And then we would work there trying to help . . .well, trying to help the people to understand how important it was to vote. And then on Election Day, we tried to help get out the vote. Not necessarily telling people who to vote for but it . . . to let them know that it is important that you vote. And course, we got all kind of excuses but we . . . why they didn't vote you know, but we told them, "You vote regardless to whether it go your way or not. It's important to vote. And then if you don't vote, you don't have a voice. And all you have is your vote so let's exercise the vote."

BRINSON: At what point did you begin to get involved in Democratic politics?

MATHIS: Well, I've always been a Democratic. [Laughing]

BRINSON: Right.

MATHIS: And so--I was elected--I was selected to--I can't remember the very first year that I was. . . .

BRINSON:That's okay.

MATHIS: But I did serve twenty-eight years and I just retired about . . . I guess, about two years ago. And if you excuse me, maybe I can show you.

BRINSON: Okay. Let me go back and ask you some questions now about Paducah . . . and some other things, you'll see. One of the things I'm interested in is if you ever went to the old Metropolitan Hotel for any reason?

MATHIS: I didn't go in there. I knew the lady and I knew Big House Gaines, because I went to school when he did. He wasn't in my class but. . . .

BRINSON: What was his name?

MATHIS: His name was Clarence Gaines, Jr., [Laughing] and they nicknamed him Clarence "Big House" Gaines.

BRINSON: Well tell me where the building is because I can't find it.

MATHIS: It's right off of Eighth Street on Jackson Street.

BRINSON: Eighth and Jackson?

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: And I had one person to tell me it was a big white building and the another person said no, its a big brick building.

MATHIS: No, it's white.

BRINSON: It's white?

MATHIS: Uh-huh. It's white frame. Uh-huh. Right off of Eighth and Jackson.

BRINSON: And when did it actually close, approximately how many years ago?

MATHIS: Well, I'm not sure. It's . . . I think it's in the souvenir booklet exactly when it closed. After his mother and father passed away, then his aunt kept it for a while. And I'm not sure exactly at this point. As I forestated, if I had know what to have ready I would have had something ready.

BRINSON: Well, I understand there is a big effort here to have it renovated. . . .

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: And to bring it back and how would it be used once it's renovated? Has the community talked about that?

MATHIS: Well, they have said something about a museum but I'm not positive right now. But I think a museum, uh-huh.

BRINSON: I want to ask you a few questions about the involvement of the NAACP in certain things that were happening in the community. In 1954 when the Supreme Court came down with the Brown decision to integrate the schools, how was that accepted or not accepted in Paducah by city officials?

MATHIS: Well to tell the truth about it, we haven't had too much of a controversy because we all sat down together and discussed what we expected among the white and the black. So to tell the truth, we haven't had that much of a controversy. Of course it was a . . . you know. . . .

BRINSON: So how did the plan to integrate, how did that go about? How did it work? In some cases, in some cities for example, they just said that, "Well, any of the black students who want to go to the white schools can do that." In others they said, “No, if we have to have busing, we're going to move everybody around.” How did Paducah . . .

MATHIS: Well, at first it was--of course they had quite a few meetings, you know, among the NAACP, the school officials, or other people before it because official. And then some of the students did go. Of course it wasn't that controversial, but it wasn't as smooth either and some did go. But later, all the students had to go from Lincoln to Tilghman.

END OF TAPE ONE SIDE ONE

BEGIN TAPE ONE SIDE TWO

MATHIS: When they passed to the tenth grade, yes.

BRINSON: And what did they do with the old Lincoln School?

MATHIS: Well, it just . . . at one time they had like a day care there. And then later, it was sold to three black men and, of course, they just let sit there and deteriorate.

BRINSON: Is it still there today?

MATHIS: No, they tore it down.

BRINSON: They tore it down?

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: In the early sixties, did you know or did you begin to see around the country the full effort to open up restaurants and theaters and whatnot; and can you tell me what happened here in that respect? I know that there was the NAACP, that there was also a group called the Non-Partisan League.

MATHIS: Uh-huh.

BRINSON: Can you tell me what their role was and was there sit-ins or demonstrations or....

MATHIS: Well at first they weren't, you know, they weren't allowed to eat as I forestated at Kresge's and then there was some sit-ins. There were some sit-ins. And then at some restaurant that also happened.

BRINSON: Do you remember the name of the restaurant?

MATHIS: Not at this point.

BRINSON: Do you remember anything about the people who actually did the sit-ins? Were they high school students? Were they adults?

MATHIS: Some were students and some were adults, especially at Kresge's . . . and Woolworth's, you know.

BRINSON: Do you know, are any of them still living in Paducah today?

MATHIS: I'm not positive because quite a few of them have passed away.

BRINSON: How did the police handle the sit-ins? Did they make arrests?

MATHIS: I can't remember them arresting anybody. I think they would just remind them but I can't remember them arresting anybody for sitting there, you know. They would remind them, you know, that they weren't suppose to be there but I don't remember them taking anybody to jail. They might have, I can't say they didn't.

BRINSON: In many communities at that point, there was some . . . there was a boycott of stores and it was called, "Nothing New for Easter;" and the word went out that nobody would buy any new clothes from the black community in the white stores as a way of saying you need to serve us equally. Was there a boycott like that that you remember here in Paducah?

MATHIS: Maybe overt.

BRINSON: But nothing that everybody recognized when you said it?

MATHIS: No.

BRINSON: And because actually in a lot of places they had little buttons that you'd wear that said, "Nothing New for Easter."

MATHIS: I don't remember that. Seems like things at first were in a turmoil but they sort of leveled off.

BRINSON: How about the effort to integrate the theaters, the movie theaters here?

MATHIS: Well that was a little problem too because . . . you know, that blacks didn't sit down on the first level. They had to go upstairs. That was a little--that wasn't easy, too easy but . . . later, you know, it was opened up because the blacks just didn't want to go up there and so. . .

BRINSON: Was there any picketing in front of the theater?

MATHIS: I don't remember any picketing. I think they just kind of stayed away, uh-huh.

BRINSON: Where you active in the Non-Partisan League at all?

MATHIS: I didn't go all the time, but I did go sometime because my children were kind of small, some of them were small. But I participated.

BRINSON: So you belong to that and you belong to NAACP, too?

MATHIS: Yeah and I also belong to the Council of Organizations.

BRINSON: Tell me about that.

MATHIS: The Council of Organizations was made up of all black organizations. A representative--maybe one or two from all organizations--and we would work to try to see that things were done like they should have been done among the black people. Voter registration, all of that.

BRINSON: How many people do you think came to the meetings of the Council?

MATHIS: Quite a few because we were getting together to try to see that things would be better for the black people, especially the black people.

BRINSON: Can you estimate for me like at any one meeting would there be ten people or fifty people?

MATHIS: Maybe close to forty or fifty, yes, because there was representatives from all the black organizations. We would try to stress education for our young people; we would try to stress you must register and vote; we tried to stress our religious affairs; you know, it's a right to go to church and whatever; and we will all come together and try to work together to get things--housing, whatever--for the people.

BRINSON: And was the Council active during the fifties and the sixties or when did it come into being?

MATHIS: It was active in the sixties, I know, uh-huh.

BRINSON: And is it still today?

MATHIS: No.

BRINSON: It sort of dissolved after a period . . .

MATHIS: Yes, uh-huh. After a period of—yes, after a period of time.

BRINSON: In 1964, there was a rally in Frankfort with Martin Luther King and others, and it was . . .it's the only statewide rally that we've had in Kentucky and it was to show support for the public accommodations bill that was in the legislature then. And I believe there was group of people who went from Paducah to that event. Do you know anything about that?

MATHIS: Yes. I didn't attend but there were people who did attend. And some of my children attended, too.

BRINSON: Really?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: Can you tell me about your children? How old were they at that time?

MATHIS: They were small but they attended. I don't think . . . Janet didn't go to Frankfort, but you went to Washington? I let them go to Washington.

BRINSON: That would have been the year before, the march on Washington . . .

MATHIS: Yes, uh-huh. [Interruption] She didn't go to Frankfort, no. And I am trying to think now, I'm not sure whether Don and Charles went to Frankfort or not. I don't think they did. I'm not sure. They were my oldest children.

BRINSON: Did they go to Washington?

MATHIS: Only Janet went and I was reluctant to let her go but she was okay. [Laughter]

BRINSON: Well, Janet is here with us so maybe when you and I finish, if she doesn't mind can I ask her about going to Washington?

MATHIS: If she want to.

BRINSON: Okay. Okay. I believe there was also a group from Paducah that went down to Selma, Alabama.

MATHIS: I didn't go.

BRINSON: Do you . . .have you ever heard that?

MATHIS: Yes, but I didn't go.

BRINSON: Do you know anybody who might have gone?

MATHIS: Well, maybe Curly went and he took some with him, but I didn't go. My husband and I, neither one, went but we were still members of the NAACP at that time.

BRINSON: And Curly Brown was the President . . .

MATHIS: President, yes.

BRINSON: Of the NAACP? Did you ever go to any state NAACP meetings?

MATHIS: Yes. In fact, I was a state officer.

BRINSON: Okay, tell me about that.

MATHIS: Well, I was Third Vice President of the state. I was also Youth Advisor here in Paducah and Third Vice President here in Paducah of the local NAACP.

BRINSON: And did the Third Vice President have a specific responsibility with it?

MATHIS: Well, I did quite a few things like, you know . . . at that time I was also Youth Advisor and I took youth to quite a few places; I took . . . well, along with the help. At that time, Curly Brown wasn't the President, Kenneth Phillip was the President when we went to different places, and then later, J. W. But we went to Miami Beach, Florida, I took fourteen then—youth--and my husband helped me with the youth. We went to Indianapolis, Indiana, we went to Kansas City, Kansas, we went to New Orleans, we went to Louisville. This was to the National Conventions. And I can't think of all the places, but we've been to quite a few places and took the youth; and they participated when we did go there. And I was also State Director of the NAACP, and my husband was Assistant because he was helping me anyway.

BRINSON: Now, you were the State Director?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON: Tell me what your responsibilities were.

MATHIS: Well, they gave me a certain area in Kentucky that I was responsible for. Say for an instance, if a problem came up in that area, they would notify me. My husband would take me there, whatever place this was. In fact, I can remember us going to Murray. They were having a problem over there. And see I . . . I wouldn't try to do a solution, I would only take down whatever problem they were having and then I would transfer that to Mr. Colfield, the State President.

BRINSON: How recently was that? How long has Mr. Colfield been the State President?

MATHIS: He's been the State President quite a while, uh-huh.

BRINSON: As he is today?

MATHIS: Yes, he is. I was trying to think . . .that was before my husband passed away.

BRINSON: And that was when?

MATHIS: In the . . . well, we were still working like that and he died in November 1995, and we were still participating as Director . . .State Director and Assistant Director.

BRINSON: So it sounds like that he was very active in the NAACP, too?

MATHIS: Yes, he would help me quite a bit, especially when I became Youth Advisor.

BRINSON: Did he hold any offices himself?

MATHIS: Not locally, just working in there to do whatever he could to help. He was always there to help me.

BRINSON: Are there any records, old records of the local NAACP that you know about, like minutes or letters, or . . .

MATHIS: I don't have the minutes because Ms. Dawson Older, she was the secretary. And you know like I told you, that I might have had quite a bit of information if I had had time to kind of dig it up, you know; and that's why I'm just doing this off the top of my head, not that I can remember too accurately without some of the notes.

BRINSON: I'm just asking about whether there are any old records because at some point in time, you might want to go back if there are and put them in museum exhibits or use them in other ways just to know that we have the right dates and . . .

MATHIS: Well, I've got some . . . excuse me, I've got some pictures of the youth when we went to various conventions and everything, and I'm going ask the young lady who would do the posters. Sometimes when we would have state conventions here, we would have posters with the young people doing various things. I think, I remember one or two taking their picture with Julian Bond, and I think I've got one with him. And I had a youth from Paducah to win--we submitted his name--and I'm not sure that it was athletic or whatever it was, but he won from Paducah at the National. He was given this recognition at the National Convention and he was . . . his last name is Thomas, Mary Anna Thomas' son. I've got all of that some place.

BRINSON: Okay, that's good to know. When you had banquets here with the NAACP, did you bring in speakers from outside?

MATHIS: Yes, we would bring in speakers from outside.

BRINSON: Do you remember any of them?

MATHIS: As I forestated, I know I held that information some place but I just can't think of it off the top of my head.

BRINSON: Do you remember if Daisy Bates was ever here?

MATHIS: Yes.

BRINSON:She was there?

MATHIS: Yes, uh-huh.

BRINSON: Did Martin Luther King come here to speak?

MATHIS: I can't remember him coming. He might have but I can't remember that. Did Ms. Taylor tell you that?

BRINSON: I don't remember what she told me about that.

MATHIS: I don't remember him coming.

BRINSON: But I wonder if he came to a state meeting?

MATHIS: I think he did come to a state meeting but I don't think he came locally.

BRINSON: How did you, when you traveled around to other cities with the NAACP and you were active so you probably knew what was going on in other places. How would you evaluate Paducah in terms of race relations in the 1960s compared to other places and the progress that you were making?

MATHIS: Well, I feel like with us . . . with me traveling around to other places, I feel like that we didn't have as much of a problem as some of the places I had been to with, you know, race relations. That's the way I feel. I knew we had problems, and we still have some problems but not extensively, you know. But I felt like that ours went a little smoother that some of the places I had been to because I felt like that we would sit down with the officials and have conversation, and sometime I feel like that's what is needed to sit down and understand each other a little better. We had problems but I'd . . . compared to other places, I feel like our problems were little minor considering how they were happening in other places.

BRINSON: Coming to the end, I wonder if there's anything else that I haven't asked you that you think is important to say in this interview? Either about your personal involvement or about Paducah?

MATHIS: I know I'm leaving off some things and I was trying to think about . . . through the state where Governor Wilkinson appointed me--and I have it in a book in there--but off the top of my head I just can't think about it right now because other things are on my mind, you know, that's a little upsetting and I just . . . I can't think about it.

BRINSON: Thank you very much for talking with me.

MATHIS: Thank you.

END OF INTERVIEW

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