Oral History Interview with John and Carol Hiebert

JESS STODDART: It's May twenty-first, nineteen ninety-nine we're getting ready for an interview with Carol and John Hiebert.

CAROL HIEBERT: My name is Carol, Carol Hiebert from Ontario, Canada. I volunteer here at the school.

JOHN HIEBERT: I'm John Hiebert, involved in GED and just some maintenance work.

J.S.: Okay, let's see how that worked.

J. HIEBERT: Yes, I'm John Hiebert from Ontario and I've been involved here at the Hindman Settlement School for a couple of years.

J.S.: Okay. 1:00Tell me a little bit about your backgrounds first, before you came to the Hindman Settlement School as volunteers. Things like where you are from, and your education, earlier volunteer experience. Maybe John, maybe you'd like to go first.

J. HIEBERT: Well, my parents emigrated from Russia in the twenties. I was born in Canada, took me, my high school years were broken up by working two years and going to Bible school three years in between. So, it took me ten years to get my high school. My students always enjoyed that story. I took three years of Bible college as well. And taught high school for thirty years, in science. Had a farm on the side, Blueberry Farm 2:00that kept us out of mischief in the summer. So I guess that about sums it up.

J.S.: Okay, Carol what's your background?

C. HIEBERT: I grew up on the west coast of Canada, my parents were also immigrants from Russia, but were German speaking. I grew up in a family of four, the youngest. I went to college in Winnipeg and that is where John and I met, Bible College, that is. And I took a number of courses at universities in Ontario after that. And taught two years in Canada and then we went for two years to Colombia, South America to teach in an American school there. I worked with immigrant people in Canada for a number of years, teaching them reading and writing of English 3:00and just helping them adapt to the Canadian culture. We've had a history of volunteer work in our family. My brothers were in volunteer work, when I was a child even, and set an example for me that way.

J.S.: You have family, don't you have some children?

C. HIEBERT: Yes. We have three children. A daughter who is a speech pathologist in the schools in northern Ontario. She got her master's at McGill in Montreal. We have a son who is presently a youth pastor at our church in Ontario. And the youngest just finished his honors science and is in landscaping business right now in the summer. We don't know what he is doing next year.

J.S.: Well, you might be interested to know that all three 4:00of us have immigrant parents. Because at the very same time that yours were coming from Russia, my father was coming from England. So all three of us are immigrants or the children of immigrants.

J. HIEBERT Interesting.

C. HIEBERT: Most North Americans are immigrants, unless they are native.

J.S.: Now you mentioned your church, you are, at home you are members of the Mennonite Church, is that correct?

J. HIEBERT: Mennonite Brethren Conferences.

J.S.: Mennonite Brethren. Could you tell me a little bit about the church and especially about the volunteer services that you are a part of?

J. HIEBERT: Well, the Mennonite Brethren as a denomination began in eighteen sixty. And has done relatively well, I guess, in terms of serving. There has always been a history of serving, mission work and serving. And we are also a part of the larger MCC, Mennonite Central Committee, and that's the organization 5:00that we are here under. That's supported basically by Mennonite Brethren, by the Mennonite General Conference of Mennonites and the Brethren in Christ denominations.

J.S.: And is that an international organization, or are you here under the North American one?

J. HIEBERT: It is an international organization, we have somewhere in the neighborhood of, I'm not exactly sure, seven hundred, a thousand people out in various countries.

J.S.: And have you been other places with the service before you came to Hindman?

C. HIEBERT: We were with another organization that was considered parallel to the MCC. We were with the Mennonite Brethren Board of Missions and Services, and that's how we went to Colombia. We went and taught under that, their auspices.

J.S.: Well, you know of course, that you stand in a long line of people who have volunteered for more than nine decades at the Hindman Settlement School. So, I would just like to ask you some things that are fairly general 6:00about your two years of service here, which are going to be ending in July. Basically tell me what each of your major responsibilities were, while you were here. And then anything that you would like to say about what happened during those two years, in those responsibilities. Carol, John, whoever would like to start.

C. HIEBERT: Alright, I'll start. My job here, was to maintain the craft shop, the Marie Stewart Craft Shop. It is just a little store and it caters to local crafters, not only out of Knott County, but surrounding counties as well, and even some from Lexington. Whoever sort of comes along and 7:00volunteers to put things into this consignment shop. The crafts are brought in to be juried first of all by someone or a group of people who qualify in that craft. For example someone who does woodcraft would be juried by someone else who does woodcraft and is considered respectable in that craft. And if they are accepted into this jurying process, then they're allowed to bring in their crafts. The crafter sets their price and at first we put a twenty percent mark up on the crafts. But as time went along, we found out that we had to change the prices sometimes for DAR [Daughters of the American Revolution] conventions and we also put in a credit card machine, so the prices were put up to forty percent mark up instead, plus the tax. It seems to have worked out alright. The prices are reasonable, 8:00anywhere from something for three dollars or even less, to something like a quilt for over seven hundred dollars, just depending on the amount of work that's put into it and what the crafter expects to get out of it. My job has been to encourage crafters, to talk to customers, to welcome them and to tell them as much as I can about the history of the settlement school and to read some of the information in books that are in the craft shop. And to try to advertise as people come in, to speak well of the place, so that they will come back again and support the work at the settlement school. I feel like my job has been partly public relations, because what people 9:00get as an impression from the craft shop will carry over into support for the school as well, I think. I really enjoyed meeting the craft people and customers. It's been a real pleasure to visit with all kinds of people and to get to know them.

J.S.: Maybe I could ask you, if I were to come into the shop, what kind of crafts would I see there right now?

C. HIEBERT: All right, well if you go around the store, you'd probably start with books. People, the first thing people go to usually is books. They come in with that in mind. We have books by about twenty-five to thirty authors. Mr. Still is probably our oldest writer and he has about six or seven different books in the craft shop 10:00for sale. Verna Mae Slone has her books there and there are numerous other writers, Lee Smith and Sharon McCrumb and others, Chris Holbrook. We have dolls, we have angels, we have Christmas ornaments. We have handwoven rugs and place mats and table runners. We have wood crafts, such as jewelry boxes made of wood, or carved animals or knives that are made of wood. We have cassettes and CDs. We have videos.

J. HIEBERT: Baskets.

C. HIEBERT: Baskets.

J.S.: I think that you mentioned one of the most popular things is pottery.

C. HIEBERT: Oh, right. [Laughing] Pottery is probably our biggest seller right now, partly because Michael Ware, who is our major potter, is well known in the community as a teacher and a wonderful PR 11:00person. And people come in to buy his craft partly because of the kind of person he is, but his craft is also beautiful and unique, because he has his own style. And it is really worth the money that is put into it. And then we have baskets, too. We have a number of basket makers. Sad to say, right at the present we don't have a basket maker who does baskets from scratch. They buy the materials and make the baskets. And they are beautiful, but I have been looking for basket makers who would start right from the tree. And there are a number in the community, but those people usually get rid of their ware before they get it to the craft shop, so it's not a good proposition for them to have it there. And another thing with consignment, 12:00people are a little leery sometimes about putting things on consignment, because they are afraid it might not be looked after well enough and it may sit there for a year without being sold. And they don't have money in their hand until it is sold. So, it is a bit of a risk for a crafter to do that.

J.S.: Now, most of them are local?

C. HIEBERT: I would say at least fifty percent or more, would be local crafters.

J.S.: And am I correct that one of the reasons for starting the shop, was indeed to help local crafters so that they could either earn extra money, or perhaps even have this be their major source of income?

C. HIEBERT: Yes, I think that's what it was started out as, yes to help carry on the heritage of the crafts that have been developed through the years and to give an outlet for sales of crafts that people are making.

J.S.: Can you tell us just about one or two of the crafters who, you know, that you've sort of been especially interested in, or think that their stories are interesting? 13:00C. HIEBERT: I'm always looking for people who really need the craft shop, like it's not just a hobby. And Henrietta Calhoun is one of those, she's one of our top crafters. She makes dolls and basically she is a doll maker, I would say. She makes ornaments and things. She is a perfectionist in her work. Her dolls always are dressed perfectly and their faces are beautiful. She just does excellent work. But her craft is not just a hobby, it is how she makes a living, because her husband is dependent on her, because he is disabled. So, they've actually began to work together at this. And she has supported her girls in their college education as a result, also of her crafting. 14:00She will sit in the craft shop and work when I need a volunteer as well, very cheerful and very willing to help wherever. She has been on T.V., had her crafts and her home on T.V., on a special video that they made.

J.S.: You think that this program has been really helpful to many of the crafters, like Rebecca?

C. HIEBERT: To Henrietta?

J.S.: Oh, Henrietta, excuse me.

C. HIEBERT: Yeah, I think it has to her, particularly. Some of the crafters, it's just a hobby and it is just a place where they have an outlet to use their craft. And they are not dependent on it. Most of them have their own jobs besides. So, it is not those kind of people that get the benefit out of it. But there's pride in it, I think, that their craft is being sold and they are making money off of it. And I think it does serve a purpose that way.

J.S.: Certainly the school from the very beginning 15:00wanted to encourage people to maintain skill in the local crafts, even if they weren't, let's say selling through the Fireside Industries. So in that sense it is fulfilling what was a very old, beginning principle of the Hindman Settlement School. John...

C. HIEBERT: I have one more thing. You asked about interesting stories. One of our crafters is about oh I'd say sixty, she's not quite sixty--five, I guess. She is a quilter. She always says, oh, okay I sold a quilt, now I can go on a vacation. Not too long, this spring actually, she, she, I called her up and said, "I just sold one of your quilts, actually two of your quilts." And it amounted to, just about a thousand dollars for her. And she said, 16:00"oh, just yesterday I paid the price on a ticket to go to Alaska this summer and it was almost that exactly amount, that amount of money." And here she'd earned the money as she was paying for the trip, so she said, "okay, I'm going on another vacation." So, she was really thrilled about that.

J.S.: John, how about you telling us a little about what your two years have been like here?

J. HIEBERT: Actually I was hired as a GED tutor. And after a month being here, another tutor came under MCC, and so dividing the load in a sense, resulted in the fact that there wasn't enough work, as a tutor. And so, by that time, Mike realized that I was a hands-on type of guy and had some experience in building and maintenance and that kind of thing. So, it was decided that I would 17:00tutor two days a week in the homes. This is adults in the homes. And work on maintenance the rest of the time. And then another development came up during that first year. The James Still Learning Center, the school, needed a phys ed. teacher. So, I've been taking three periods of phys ed. a week, since then. That's been very enjoyable, I've enjoyed that. And I think they have too, they've benefited. They've learned how to play floor hockey and some new games, which has been really good.

J.S.: Tell us a little bit about the home tutoring program, the kind of people that you're working with in that program.

J. HIEBERT: Some of them are those that got left behind years ago. So my oldest student right now, I guess, is fifty-one, started at a grade one level. Couldn't read or write 18:00properly. Well, a few words, but nothing of significance. And others are those who dropped out of the system usually at grade nine or ten level, they've been out of school for two or three years and realize that they need the high school education. So, they call up and want to get into the program. It is difficult for them though, to continue, very often to follow through and to complete, just because of the demands on their life or their time. And then they get jobs sometimes in between. But to their credit, a lot of them if they go off and quit for a while, they'll come back on and keep going. So it's something a lot of them realize they need.

J.S.: These people that you tutor at home, 19:00do they also come into the Human Services Center for classes or is all of the instruction that they are getting now, at home with you?

J. HIEBERT: It is all in the home. And I usually just visit them once a week, look over the material they have completed. We'll discuss some new work, new concepts, especially in math. A lot of them have difficulty in math. And then give assignments for them to do until the next lesson.

J.S.: Well, tell us a little bit about that other aspect. Because as we were talking earlier, I said, I really knew you as the man who was doing all the building around here, and was not even aware that you were in the GED program. So tell me a little bit about some of the projects that have been going on that you've been really either responsible for or have done major work on in these last couple of years.

J. HIEBERT: A year ago in the fall, Mike came to me and said, "John we've got to get these poplar logs 20:00off the ground or they will be rotted by spring." These were the logs for the Verna Mae Slone's cabin that were lying there, so okay. Well, I said, "if we are going to move them, we may as well set them up." So, that was a good project for several months, was to get Verna Mae Slone's cabin erected, still isn't finished. But there is some money involved now with the chimney and the shingles, the shakes on the roof. It will get done though.

J.S.: Well, certainly I see a great difference, because I think I recall, well I suppose a year, a year and a half ago, when there was nothing there. And then came back and saw what is certainly the skeleton, I mean it needs work inside, but basically the cabin is there.

J. HIEBERT: It is solid and secure, yeah. Another project we did this spring, was up in the Priest Building, replacing a quarter of the floor joists and putting a new footer 21:00underneath. So it was a rather major maintenance that needed to be done to save the building. And now the walking bridge, we've completed one end and just starting on the other end.

J.S.: Is that the bridge where one side fell down one day and then the other side fell down the next?

J. HIEBERT: A little later, that's right.

J.S.: Well, I think you are going to be a really hard person to replace, because I know that there is constant repair work that needs to be done here. And not always either enough talent or enough time for those who are here to be able to do that.

J. HIEBERT: It's also been enjoyable to build little things for anybody that needed them. The library wanted a puppet stand, so that was built. Hazard Community College, the extension wanted a lectern, so I was able to make that, just numerous other things. 22:00Right now, I just got the wood together to build a set of steps going up into the loft of Mr. Still's cabin. So, that is supposed to go up next week.

J.S.: Well, then I'd also like to mention one thing, because of course you did those lovely hangers for the quilts in the dining room, as well. That is one of the things that I've seen, which is very beautiful work. Well, I guess I want to ask you just a couple of, oh practical questions I guess, about what your arrangements with the Hindman Settlement School is, or maybe I should say the arrangements with the Mennonite Community Center, is that?

C. HIEBERT: Mennonite Central Committee.

J.S.: Mennonite Central Committee with the Hindman Settlement School to have you here for the two years.

J. HIEBERT: The school supplies the living quarters.

J.S.: And that is? Can you tell us what, 23:00an apartment, a house?

J. HIEBERT: We actually have a three bedroom apartment, so we have lots of room for guests. And I must say we have had quite a few guests coming from Ontario. In that connection, it has also been our privilege to interact with Ontario a number of times. We've taken the young people from the Methodist church up there for a weekend. We've had young people from our son's church come down here for several days. The, in the apartment, most of the appliances belong to the settlement school, some belong to MCC. Then we eat our lunches and suppers here at the settlement school, breakfast we have on our own. In terms of finances, the Hindman Settlement School provides a stipend for each of us, and that of course, as far as we're concerned goes into MCC coffers. 24:00So, basically MCC is more or less, I guess, coming out even, in terms of our assignment, because of that stipend.

J.S.: Will there be somebody following you here? Do you know from the MCC?

C. HIEBERT: There's a couple coming, what is his name?

J. HIEBERT: Arnold and Lorraine Baron.

C. HIEBERT: They're coming from California to replace the tutors. They are not coming to work in the craft shop, but coming as two tutors to work. And they will be living, they'll move right into the place we live. And the furniture and linens and everything stays there, because all they need to bring is their personal effects. And so all of that is provided.

J.S.: I have a few just final questions. They are more general musing kinds 25:00of questions about your experience here. And I guess the first musing question is simply what has it been like to live and work at the Hindman Settlement School during the past couple of years? You might want to talk about the programs or the staff or any of those kinds of things. Whatever what you want to muse about.

J. HIEBERT: Well, it has been very enjoyable. I must say it has been enriching. People here are very kind. They are open, they're generous. We've enjoyed very much the interaction at the Hindman Methodist Church. We've been in charge of the senior youth there for over a year, and that's been enriching, certainly, and a challenge as well. We've also been involved in a small care group, where we meet once a week, study the word, and also do some service 26:00projects and just social interaction, that's been very good. We've made a lot of friends and we expect to see a lot of those friends back in Canada for a visit when we get back there.

C. HIEBERT: Actually we took one of the couples with us to Ontario for a retreat of our church back home. And we spent the weekend with the group there and we just had a wonderful time. So, we really expect to continue friendships with some of these people from here. It's been good, yes. We've enjoyed the staff here very much. There's a laid back feeling very often, and slowed down kind of a lifestyle in a way, and it makes volunteering easier because you are not in a pressure situation to get this done or that done. You have your own motivation, but it's not that someone is pushing you to get this or that done, because it's not that 27:00kind of a situation. And it's been interesting to not have to cook meals and to have someone look after you hand and foot almost, very often, because meal preparation is such a big thing of a person's life.

J. HIEBERT: With that kind of an open atmosphere too, it has been my privilege to spend time in the woodworking shop, evenings and Saturdays, and I've been able to put together a number of K() Boards, sold a few just to pay expenses and gave the rest away, which is a table game by the way. I've also made my first dulcimer. I made a high back chair during Folk Week last year. So, I've enjoyed just the access to the shop and the tools there and making things.

J.S.: Learning as well as teaching in that respect, huh? Well, indeed one of my impressions here, especially 28:00of the staff, is an impression of family. The way people don't have very rigid defined roles, so if somebody has to run over to help somebody else because someone's ill at lunchtime or whatever. And that's a wonderful kind of atmosphere where nobody feels that they are doing their job and once they've done that, then off they go. And I think that's the kind of place, for you as volunteers to move into must be very, very nice. Well, just let me ask you finally whether there are other things that you wanted to mention about your time here or what you think the Hindman Settlement School is giving back to this community? Anything of that type before we call it a day?

J. HIEBERT: The role has certainly changed over the years, history will bear that out. But certainly the dyslexic school, the school for children with dyslexia, I think that is a very positive 29:00contribution to the community and further than the community, too, to other states even.

C. HIEBERT: I think the program that has just begun with the social work that Tracy is doing to help people.

J.S.: The Welfare to Work Program?

C. HIEBERT: Yes. I think that is beyond the GED. And I think that is really meeting the need where people need to get out into the work force, but don't have the tools for it, to get out there. And she is really training them in something that I would support a lot. That's the kind of work that I did back home. And to me that is a real vital thing with adults, to get them to be able to go out there and to work. I think that the craft shop has its place too, especially 30:00if it keeps on serving those who need it, not just serving, how shall I say it? Not just serving to make money or something like that, but to keep the heritage going and to keep crafts going and also to help people who are needy, who could do crafts and could make some money as a result of the craft shop. So I think it is something that should probably continue if possible.

J. HIEBERT: We've enjoyed the music of the Appalachian region as well, not only the local music making, but it has been our privilege to sing in a couple of Hazard Community Colleges, uh college choirs. And that's been enjoyable.

J.S.: Have you followed at all, this sort of major initiative involving the school and the town, the CDI, the Community Development Initiative? 31:00I guess what I am asking is, you have any musings, any observations on what you think has been going on there? Whether it's been good for the town or whether you think the future will indeed be better for having this project come in?

J. HIEBERT: I see some real benefits for the town, for the community. I have one kind of reservation, we have a heart for the youth work. Somehow I would like to see more energy put into the future of our youth, whether it has to do with recreation or has to do with jobs and so one. Of course, the College of Arts and Crafts, that will open up an opportunity for work or for learning, of course.

C. HIEBERT: I think it is a really good thing for the community to have something 32:00that they can work on together. It should draw the community together, as long as there is continued support and people see that things are happening, I think there will be. My vision is a little different than what they are working on right now. My vision is this, I find that the people that come into the craft shop are many times people who have gone out of state to find jobs, years back. And now they are coming back to visit, to see where they grew up, see where their parents live. And I feel that those kind of people would stay here, if there was a place for them to come to, and I know it's a really huge undertaking. I would see this as a really good place for a retirement community, where things, activities are prepared for adults and there are homes that are 33:00set up, like retirement communities that actually feed into a hospital situation eventually. So that you can be cared for from retirement to old age. And I could see this community as serving that, and that would serve as a place for jobs for young people, and people to come back into the community. So that not all our educated people leave this community and then there's nobody left here to keep this place going. So, that's my vision for this community, but that's only my vision.

J.S.: I have to say that one of the things that has impressed me about this initiative, is that there is so much democratic culture that's being taught almost. I think it is almost fair to say that, that democratic decision making wasn't really the way things were generally done here.

C. HIEBERT: That's right.

J. S.: So you have to hope that this is a beginning 34:00of teaching people a new and better way to work on large problems of the community. Well, I just have one final question, which I'm sure anyone who listens to the tape or reads these interviews, where are you going to be going from here?

J. HIEBERT: When we finish in July, we hope to head back to Ontario, then we are going to do a cruise to Alaska, together with Carol's three brothers and their wives. And when we get back in September, we expect to volunteer up at our church camp, an hour and a half northwest of Toronto. We are going to be on building and maintenance there for the winter, at least until April of the year two thousand. And then we have fifty acres back in Ontario and we hope to build a house.

J.S.: So it sounds to me as though you have plenty to keep yourselves 35:00busy in the near future.

J. HIEBERT: Always.

J.S.: Well, thank you for the interview and thank you for the two years.

END OF INTERVIEW