Oral History Interview with Joe Graves

JESS STODDARD: You want to give us your name, please?

JOE GRAVES: Joe Graves.

J.S. : Okay, tell us a little bit about your background, your family, education, things like that.

GRAVES: Well, I was born in Lexington in nineteen thirty, the year of the great drought in Kentucky. Went to local school, University High School. My father was in the clothing business, Graves-Cox. Graduated from high school, went away one year to William and Mary, as a freshman, came back and graduated from Transylvania. Took some graduate courses at UK [University of Kentucky] and went into the family business. Worked there until it was sold in nineteen sixty-nine. Also became a city commissioner in nineteen sixty-seven and then a member of the House of Representatives in Kentucky in seventy-one and the State Senate in seventy-three. And now I'm a businessman. I helped start two banks in Lexington. Heart 1:00and I have three daughters, all of whom are grown. And we both love coming to the Hindman Settlement School, at least once a year.

J.S.: How did you get involved with the Hindman Settlement School?

GRAVES: Well, Raymond McClain, who was one of the former directors, knew me. His father had been president of Transylvania College, and my father was on that Board and a friend of Raymond McClain, Senior. So, when Raymond was a director of the school, he asked me to serve on the board of directors.

J.S. : And when was that?

GRAVES: Well, that's a good question Jess, I think it was probably in the sixties. I know it was in the sixties.

J.S.: So, you're going on for...

GRAYES: In fact, I received recognition a couple of years ago for having served on the board for twenty-five years.

J.S.: Amazing, well then you're what we call an old-timer, right?

GRAVES: That's right, old-timer, right.

J.S.: Well, maybe what we could do, just to start out, 2:00is that you could kind of make observations about the twenty-five year, the long view and then we'll maybe talk about some of the more individual things. What has your experience been like?

GRAVES: Well, I think the experience that has been most encouraging for me, and even to the point of being an exhilarating experience, is to be part of a non-profit organization like this that has progressed so well. Particularly under the leadership of Mike Mullins, it's had phenomenal success, in terms of really serving people in this region. And it's, I think I'm on the board or have been on the board of over eight non-profits. All of which I think are important non-profit organizations. But, I know of no 3:00non-profit that I've had experience with that does more for it, gets more bang for its buck, that does more with its resources, than the Hindman Settlement School, in terms of its service to its constituents and the people it aims to serve.

J.S.: And it was interesting that you said that the progression you're seeing. What would you consider to be the most important new things that have been taken on, or expanded, or things like that, while you've been on the board?

GRAVES: Well, I think the school for dyslexic children has been one of the most meaningful experiences. My wife, our oldest daughter volunteered to serve as one of the faculty in one of the early summer schools for dyslexic students. And she was unable to complete that commitment, so my wife 4:00stepped in and came up and spent the summer as a volunteer teacher. And she came back with glowing reports of how that personal, sort of one on one relationship with a student, meant so much to the student, in terms of improving the student's ability to read and write and understand. So, I think the program for dyslexic students has just been outstanding.

J.S.: Maybe you could tell me a little bit about, since we're really interested also in how the board operates in relationship to the director and the programs. With that specific program, how was the program started and implemented in terms of the board's activities and so forth?

GRAVES: Well, to the best of my recollection, Mike brought the concept to the board of directors, and I believe it is fair to say that Lois Weinberg was involved at the very early stages with Mike. She has, I believe she and Billy have four children and I believe three of them are dyslexic, so she had 5:00an interest in dyslexia. And, my recollection is that she and Mike developed the interest in the Hindman Settlement School becoming involved in that program. And then Mike brought it to the board as our executive director. And Lois, I'm sure, was supportive. That's the way, to my recollection, it started.

J.S.: And was it, were they able to fund that out of the settlement school's resources, or did they have to go out to get more money?

GRAYES: Well, I think the answer probably is a combination of, some of the money was provided by the school, a fraction of it was probably provided by the parents who could afford to pay, and then Mike, who is a marvelous fundraiser, also raised some money 6:00especially for the school.

J.S.: Aside from the dyslexic program, are there other things, particularly that you would point to in the last quarter century that you think have really been moving the settlement school, in you know, the proper direction?

GRAVES: Well, the Hindman Settlement School has encouraged the local, I guess, its GED program. I can remember a very poignant ceremony here, when Governor and Mrs. Wallace Wilkinson flew up here in a helicopter, especially for the graduation of some GED students. I remember being in the audience when Martha Wilkinson, the governor's wife, gave the main address at that graduation. And seeing those students come up, one by one, to receive their certificate 7:00and how proud their families were oft hem and they were of themselves for accomplishing these goals. It is just another indication of how this small school in Knott County has touched the lives of many different people.

J.S. : Can you tell me about the roles or offices that you've held on the board?

GRAVES: Well, for a while I served as chairman, which was an honor and a responsibility. Now I'm serving as treasurer. And during my term as treasurer, we have changed our investment approach. We now have two different investment advisors. We divided up the foundation's money between these two advisors, and they use a slightly different approach, but it helps us add talent 8:00to our management pool of investment advising. So we've been able to increase the endowment substantially, not only through good management, but also because we've had people make donations, which we've also been able to invest carefully. So, I feel like we have a very strong financial situation. Our funds are well managed, our investment firms are well managed, but also we have a good accounting system, so we can track operating expenses, income and do what a board is supposed to do, and that is to provide oversight, that the management is very professional.

J.S.: And were you the one who basically altered this, what had been there before to this system?

GRAVES: Well, I recommended that we do that. I'm on 9:00several other boards, like the Lexington Cemetery has done this, Transylvania College, I was on that executive committee for many years. We did it. Christ Church, I'm on the Investment Committee for our church, and we have more than one investment advisor and manager. So, it is something that more and more non-profit boards are doing, so I did recommend it to the Hindman Settlement School.

J.S.: I would appreciate knowing what the system was before it was changed. When you first came on, how the money, how the endowment was handled.

GRAVES: Well, the Hindman Settlement School has had a long term relationship with what was called Citizen's Fidelity Bank in Louisville, and it was a very satisfactory relationship. That bank, the trust department of that bank managed these funds. Then that bank was later merged and we felt that they were doing 10:00a fine job, and in fact they still are one of our investment advisors, but we felt it was good to have maybe another investment advisor. And now we have two, PNC Bank, which is sort of a sequel to Citizen's Fidelity, as one o four managers. We also have a firm called Seutter, Stevenson, Clark, which is a nationally-known firm. So, those two firms both manage our accounts. We get reports like one I just saw recently that compares the operation of these two funds, these two separate funds, that are managed separately. So we're able to, competition you know, is always stimulating, so these two firms feel some competitive challenge to each do a good job of managing these monies.

J.S.: And they both have mixed 11:00sources, so that you don't have bonds in one and...

GRAVES: That's right, they're very well, they're well diversified. And of course, the challenge now at this particular time in May of nineteen ninety-nine, is that many people feel, many of us feel that the market is exceptionally high in value and we wonder what to do in terms of hedging against maybe either recession or... So those are some of the challenges that you think about when you are on a board of directors or on the executive committee.

J.S.: Tell me also a little about, well first of all, because you've been the chair and you mentioned that there are, obviously, added responsibilities. So, I think it would be very helpful to know, just how the chair functions, in terms of both of the board and the executive director.

GRAVES: I agree with a man named W. T. Young, who was been a tremendous benefactor of the University of Kentucky and 12:00who is Chairman of the Board of Transylvania University. And he said, that basically he feels that the primary function of a board of directors is to hire and fire the president or staff of the university or a corporation. So, our, I think one of our primary responsibility [responsibilities] as a board of directors is to be certain that we have an excellent executive director. And in that case, in that particular situation we are blessed, because we have I think, one of the finest executive directors that anyone could have. So, since that responsibility is being fulfilled, I think, one of our other main responsibilities is to be certain that the executive director and the staff have the resources to do the job to fulfill the mission of the Hindman Settlement School. And so that's why we try to be very careful in terms of the investment of funds 13:00that are given to us. And why we try to help Mike Mullins when we have fund raising drives, and try to be supportive. He is an exceptional fund raiser, so we are doubly blessed.

J.S.: Have you had any recent fund raising drives? Or are you planning any drives in the near future?

GRAVES: Yes, a drive is being planned and I would urge you to talk to Mike about that. I am not involved in the group that is working on that, but they are planning a very substantial drive. And I believe it is to obtain more money to support the dyslexia program.

J.S.: Again, if I can go back for just one minute. What would you say are the extra responsibilities of being the chair of the board? 14:00GRAVES: Well, I think the chair of the board, is the person in most organizations like this, who has the most interaction with the executive director. If Mike Mullins for example, as executive director, wants to find out whether the board would tend to be open for a change that he wants to recommend. It would be natural for him to contact the chairman and gets the chairman's view. And the chairman in turn may wish to call a meeting of the executive committee, which is a small group of the board, or the chairman or chairperson, may feel that he or she is sufficiently in touch with all the board members to be able to say, "yes I think the board would really be excited about that, or maybe we better check, maybe we better go slow on that." So, the chairman is literally a person who coordinates the work of the board of directors. If a vacancy 15:00occurs, the chairman may suggest a replacement. It is a very interesting position.

J.S.: Yes, I would think too that you obviously are very consistently involved in policy matters.

GRAVES: Yes. Well, being the board member who is most in touch with the executive director, and with an executive director like Mike, who is good about keeping people informed, you are closer to the actual operation perhaps than any other board member.

J.S.: Is there anything different or unusual in the way that Hindman Settlement School is administered from other boards or organizations that you've been with?

GRAVES: Well, I think all of them are different. You know Transylvania University, I was on that executive committee for about twenty-five years and obviously a university has a different function than a small school like this. I'm on the Board of the Lexington Cemetery, which has an entirely different function. So, I think the organization 16:00kind of fits the function of the work that is going forward. And I've been lucky to serve, fortunate to serve with some fine leaders like Charlie Shearer at Transylvania and with, we have an excellent director at the Lexington Cemetery. Because as I've mentioned, I really feel like I've had enough experience to be able to say, to recognize an exceptional leader when I associate with one. And Mike is truly just the right person for this job. We were just blessed when we selected him.

J.S.: Well, tell me a little bit about how he came to be selected, if you can recall that. You were on the board at the time.

GRAVES: Well, after Raymond McClain resigned, our next executive director, as I recall, was Lionel Duff, who served for, I guess, three or four years. Then when he resigned, we had a search 17:00for a replacement. And I can remember a meeting at Transylvania when the board met to interview two candidates. And Mike was one of those candidates. I didn't know either candidate. So, it was difficult for me to determine who was best, but I think the good Lord was looking over our shoulder, because we selected Mike. And it has been a great choice.

J. S.: I think he was over at Alice Lloyd at the time?

GRAVES: I think he was, I think he was, but it would be good to check on that.

J.S.: Now, tell me what are the qualities about him that you find make such an exceptional executive director?

GRAVES: Well, he has great integrity. He is straight forward about telling you how he feels about things. 18:00He's not a person who manipulates or who is devious. I think he has a great feel for this part of Kentucky and for its needs and for its aspirations of its people. I think he is a very kind person. He genuinely cares about the people, the students and the adults who are served by this Hindman Settlement School. He has tremendous energy. He has the good fortune to be married to Frieda, who is a tremendous person herself. He is devoted to his family and they are devoted to him, so he has that additional strength of having great family support. He is active in his church. He's politically shrewd. You know I guess, in all Kentucky communities politics is important, and certainly is in eastern Kentucky. And Mike knows 19:00how to operate in a political atmosphere in Kentucky, in eastern Kentucky and Knott County. He really motivates you. He'll call you up and start talking about some program he wants to do and before you know it, you're just swept along and want to participate. And you never regret it, either. It's not as if he is talking you into something that is not sound. The things that he's recommended that we have done have worked out to be very appropriate for our mission.

J.S.: I can certainly attest to that. Because one of the times when I was coming to do work, he showed me the preliminary report on the latest project, the development project and it was just incredible to read that.

GRAVES: Yes.

J.S.: And see what was going to happen to this area and the role that was going to be played in that. 20:00Well, you've known three directors.

GRAVES: Yes, right.

J.S.: Can you tell me a little bit about the other two, and the kind of work they were doing, maybe even a contrast in terms of what was the most important focuses at the various times?

GRAVES: Raymond McClain has a fine mind, as you know he is a musician. His family is musical. I can remember his mother was quite musical. And the McClain Family Band was a band that Raymond created, that traveled nationally and was nationally recognized. I felt that when he was executive director that he is, I would say, a more academic type director than many directors. So, I think in some ways, 21:00maybe this is not the type of work that maybe draws on his strongest and best qualities. Lionel Duff was always somewhat of an enigma to me. He was far more reserved than either Raymond or Mike, so it is really difficult for me to communicate with him and to understand what he wanted to accomplish. And...

J.S. : Were you the Chair at that time?

GRAVES: I'm not sure whether I was or not. I think I was Chair after Mike came, but maybe the records could be checked about that. But Lionel, I think had kind of a difficult trip up here. I think his tenure was probably not too satisfactory for him or for the school. And Mike, the contrast between Mike and his predecessor, Lionel, is just the difference between night and day. I think, 22:00obviously we have now the person who is just right.

J. S.: I realize of course, that you must have also known Miss Watts.

GRAVES: Yes.

J.S.: So maybe, we're always looking for new insights into Miss Watts. Maybe you would tell us a little bit about your relationship and your impressions of her.

GRAVES: I found her very inspiring. I think we've all known people in our lives, who are so utterly unselfish and so dedicated to the betterment of others that it's an inspiration. I found her very inspiring. When she came to our board meetings, which she was very good about attending, it just lifted the whole level of, not only discourse, but the whole level of thinking. Because just having her in our presence was stimulating. And as she got older, as we all got older, it was even more impressive because 23:00she just kept coming. Her interest in the school and its mission never flagged or became less intense as she got older. So, I think that was a tribute to the school, and certainly a tribute to her. And I think Mike again, would take the time to go down to her retirement home in Tennessee, pick her up, bring her to these meetings and then be sure that she was taken home again. He was conscious of the value of the linkage with the past, that she represented. And also truly respected her and felt affectionate towards her and wanted to keep her involved. I think it is another indication of the quality of his character, that he realized the importance of the past and the importance of past contributions.

J.S.: I know she continued 24:00to attend the board meetings for a very long time after she retired herself Let me ask you about this latest project which the Hindman Settlement School is involved in. Maybe you could speak about it a little, how it came about and what our role is in it and what you think about this project, the community redevelopment initiative.

GRAVES: I think it is an amazing project. I think the governor and whoever suggested the project deserves a lot of credit. As you know, rather than taking public funds and scattering them through a number of communities that are in need of funds, this program concentrates the funds among the few towns that have made proposals that have exceptional merit, in terms of renovation 25:00and revitalization of the communities. The Hindman Settlement School, I think, was one of three finalists in the selection process and was one of two communities that were selected. Maybe there were three that were selected. But, Mike Mullins and Bill Weinberg and a few other people in the Knott County community developed this proposal. It is exceptionally innovative and well thought out. It is going to lead to the revitalization, I believe of the community of Hindman and of Knott County. The Hindman Settlement School plays an important role because our land, our campus is right in the middle of it. I think we are going to be able to make, we are going to be able to make a contribution of property that will help provide space for some of the facilities that are going to be built, like the branch of the Hazard Community College, 26:00the new library. And I think that is going to be good for our campus to have this revitalization going along in the community. So it, it's Mike Mullins again is an essential participant in the leadership that put the proposal together and then won the proposal and now has the serious responsibility of implementing it. So, I think it is going to be great.

J.S.: It certainly seems, in fact I thought we might even be seeing the beginnings of it when we came. Right now, I don't know if we walked around the campus we may see some of the things have already started. I don't know what Cassie asked you, when she interviewed you. But I thought maybe she asked you some interesting questions or you were able to give her some interesting information that I might miss. So I wondered if there were things that had been in the first interview 27:00that you might want to make sure get into this one as well?

GRAVES: I can't think of any questions that she asked me, that you haven't asked me.

J.S. : We're always looking for stories, you know, interesting things that have happened.

GRAVES: Right, right. Well, I think something that has really enriched the Hindman Settlement School are the, well, for instance the life and career of the authors who have been associated with the school. "The River of Earth," is a marvelous book that has touched the lives of many people. The Writer's Workshop that has operated here for many years, has become a very important institution in Kentucky, as well as for Knott County. So Mike has, not only Mike and the Hindman Settlement School, have not only touched the lives of many 28:00people in Knott County and this region, but he has brought people to this region from far away, who have been touched by this region. And so, he's brought people here to learn and to contribute, who's lives have been touched from as far away as Canada and other countries and other parts of the United States. And so, the Hindman Settlement School has reached well beyond this region in terms of its influence, I think. You could comment on this. But, I think it's touched the lives of so many Americans and also visitors to America. It's nice to think that it's been that kind 29:00of catalyst.

J.S.: Have you ever attended a Folk Week or any part of the workshop, the Writer's Workshop?

GRAVES: I have not. I've wanted to, I've often wished I could be just an observer. And I've never wanted to take the place of a writer, who, because I think there is a waiting list for many of those programs. But it would be fun just to observe the process. I'm sure I would learn a lot and be truly stimulated by what I learned.

J.S.: I think so, especially I think the Folk Week must be something that almost anyone would find something that they would enjoy.

GRAVES: Yes, yes.

J.S.: Well, anything else that you would like to add? Let me, let me ask this one question. Is there anything that you would change? Anything that you wish we could do differently, or that you think should have been done differently here?

GRAVES: Well I believe, I really believe in the quest for excellence. And 30:00if you believe in that quest, you know that everything can be improved. Not that we try to be perfect, but we can always try to be better or try to improve our performance. But I think, I guess if I had one wish, I guess I would wish that I, particularly had been more of a help to the school, in terms of raising money. Because I think there is just no question that if we had more financial resources, we could do a better job of improving the lives of the people we serve. I feel that would be one thing, I wish I were better skilled at raising money. Because I think with several million more dollars, we could really multiply that money in terms of its, the way it touches the lives of people we serve. 31:00I think that is the only improvement I can think of.

J.S.: Maybe since you have been the treasurer, maybe you can tell me a little bit about where most of the donations come from these days. Because one of the things that I found in the records, of course, was the extreme importance of bequests to the school. And really the school ran on those bequests.

GRAVES: Right. Well, here again, one of the reasons that Mike Mullins is such a great director is that he spends a lot of his time, as he should, raising money and being in touch with organizations like the DAR [Daughters of the American Revolution] and Steel Reece Foundation and various other foundations that contribute money to these types of organizations. And over the years, he has established a relationship of trust with all of these organizations. 32:00So, they believe in him, they believe in what he's doing, they believe in the mission of the school. So, that has been a tremendous help. So, I would say most of our money comes from large gifts or grants. And then Mike writes ...

J.S.: Mostly from foundations?

GRAVES: I would think so, but now check this out with Mike, but I would think so. He does send out a Christmas appeal letter, which is always masterfully written, and that encourages donations from many people. And then of course, these people who develop affection and respect for the school, many of them remember the school when they write their will. So, we've received some very nice bequests. So those are all important. But Mike is just kind of a one-man development team, in terms of raising money.

J.S.: You said you didn't know a whole lot about whatever the next big campaign is going to be, but do you know enough to say whether it is going to spread out beyond the organizations and foundations which the settlement school has gone to before, into a larger body 33:00of either people or groups?

GRAVES: The person to talk to about that Jess, would be Glen Leveridge, who is a board member. He is identified closely with Bank One in Lexington. And he and Lois Weinberg and a small group are working on that. But they'll go to wherever the money is to get, you know, to get the resources that they are searching for.

J.S.: Well, we are almost to the centennial and you've been around for at least one quarter of that time at Hindman Settlement School. Tell me what you see as the future for the Hindman Settlement School in the next century.

GRAVES: Well, that is a provocative question. And really requires a lot more time to 34:00think about an answer. I think what I would suggest is maybe what we need to do is, maybe get the board of directors together with some other people who care about this school and have a special session that people could prepare for, in terms of reading and thinking. And maybe we should discuss that question, what do we want to be when we grow up in the next millennium. I think that would be a valuable exercise. And I would love to participate. But my thoughts are, I would much rather participate in a broadly based discussion about that subject than, hazard an answer now. Because I don't feel I've thought enough about it, to, I'm so concentrated on the future. I would say that our mission has evolved. It evolves from year to year 35:00as we perceive the needs that the school could address. So, I think if we continue to be open minded and flexible. And if we continue to have great leadership, we'll be true to the founders who worked so hard to create this school.

J.S.: Have you any last thoughts that you would like to add before we conclude?

GRAVES: I guess my final thoughts, or last thoughts in this interview would be that I really feel tremendously grateful for the opportunity to serve with the other people who love the Hindman Settlement School. I remember when I was first asked to serve, I probably wasn't even sure where Hindman was and wasn't sure what I could do to contribute or even if I wanted to contribute. But, it certainly has been a fantastic experience. And I think like many experiences in life, you never know 36:00what to anticipate when they start, but when you look back on them, you're sure glad you participated. And I'm very grateful.

J.S.: Well, thank you very much. This interview was conducted by Jess Stoddart.

END OF INTERVIEW