Oral History Interview with Gertrude Maggard

WILTRUDE PAPROTTA: The date is January the sixth, nineteen hundred ninety-eight.

The interviewer is Wiltrude Paprotta. The place of the interview is the home of Gertrude Maggard in San Luis Obispo, California. Gertrude would you please state your full name.

GERTRUDE MAGGARD: My full name is Gertrude Maggard.

W.P.: How long did you stay at the settlement school?

MAGGARD: I stayed there six years, from nineteen twenty-three to nineteen twenty-nine, when I graduated from high school.

W.P. : Did you board?

MAGGARD: Yes. They had at that time, around close to a hundred students. We didn't have good roads and it was just very difficult for one to try to walk through the muddy roads in the winter time. 1:00W.P.: What were the names of the buildings that you lived in?

MAGGARD: I lived in all, except the Little Girls' House. That means I lived in Orchard House, first Hillside, Orchard House, Practice Home, Hospital, back to Orchard House.

W.P.: Can you tell me anything about the living arrangements there?

MAGGARD: Usually there would be four girls in a room over in the dormitory over in Orchard House. There were double decker beds. And I think we always had single rooms. I don't remember sharing a bed with anyone else. And we would have the double deckers or either just the two cots, if there were only two in a room. We would have a wash stand and a pitcher for water and a bowl, 2:00and one closet. And I don't remember about chests, whether we had chests in the room or not for our underwear and hose and such.

W.P.: What rules were you expected to follow?

MAGGARD: I think that we were just to follow room, rules of decency. We each had [a] room assign[ed], work assignments and we were each to perform our duties in whatever we were assigned to do. And we were to get permission if we wanted to go up town. And we just had certain times that we would be allowed to go visit our family. I think it was about twice each semester that we could go maybe on a Friday 3:00after school. And then we would return Sunday by a certain time. We were to be of course, courteous to our teachers and all get along with each other. And also be nice to our housemothers.

W.P.: How did you learn about the settlement?

MAGGARD: I lived in Leburn, and I think everybody in our area, and I guess in most of the county knew about the settlement and Miss Stone.

W.P.: Did other members of your family attend?

MAGGARD: No.

W.P.: Are there any classes that stand out in your mind?

MAGGARD: None special. Many of them were very interesting.

W.P.: Who were your favorite teachers and what did you like about them?

MAGGARD: Well, I don't really have a favorite teacher either. They were all very nice.

W.P.: Were you involved in any school activities?

MAGGARD: Yes, we had activities at the settlement. We didn't have school activities like they have now, such as the basketball and the choir and glee club and 4:00all different sports like that. We just didn't have them at that time. There was basketball, but I don't remember being specifically involved and the basketball court was... .I just don't remember basketball.

W.P.: But you had other activities, right?

MAGGARD: Oh, we had nice activities in the settlement. As I say, they were mainly just for settlement students. When I was at Hillside, our house mother was named Miss Foster and she had a Campfire Girls group. I went to it, a time or two. I didn't care for it, because that was on Friday evenings and on Friday evenings sometimes they would have 5:00folk dancing at the Kindergarten Building. And I loved the folk dancing, especially the Virginia Reel. So, I would prefer to go to that and we were allowed to make our choice. Let[s] see, I don't know of any other special, oh yes .... When I was down in Orchard House in high school we had, what they called Christian Endeavor. It was a program that we had Sunday evenings after our evening meal. It was non-denominational, but still of a religious nature. It was very nice. And there was usually one faculty member who lead us.

W.P.: Did you do any work at the settlement?

MAGGARD: We all worked. The minimum hours that we worked each day was two hours.

W.P.: And what did you do?

MAGGARD: Well, we had lots of different 6:00assignments. I think one of my first ones, was to work over at the high school cleaning, sort of janitorial work, cleaning rooms and such. And some of the other assignments were, we did the laundry in the laundry room. And we might work in the dining room, setting tables and cleaning up and keeping the beautiful, beautiful tables in order. Let's see, well in the dormitory rooms we also would work. I mean we would keep things neat and orderly and see that there was water put in the pitchers in our own individual rooms. Our laundry room, I might have mentioned that earlier. So, 7:00just anything that was needed to be done. We girls didn't do any of the yard, the fanning and the garden work.

W.P.: Did you do any kitchen work?

MAGGARD: Kitchen work, I didn't, I don't think we students did too much. We did some, but I don't recall.

W.P.: What do you remember about Miss Watts, Miss Furman and Miss Burns? Or Miss Cobb.

MAGGARD: There were two things that were outstanding to me about Miss Watts. One was how she and the Eastover boys would come to each of the dormitories on Christmas Eve and sing Christmas carols. They were old English carols mainly and it just sounded so wonderful. It was just so thrilling to hear them. Another thing I remember about Miss Watts was, Sunday School. I went to the Baptist church 8:00and she taught Sunday School at the Baptist Church and she would have us to memorize Bible verses or portions of the Bible of a very interesting nature. And I've been very, very grateful to learning those, because they've got me over many, many periods throughout my lifetime. I remember also when she had returned from visiting her family in the east one summer, she came back and presented me with a necklace. I think there were mother of pearl stones in it. It was a beautiful necklace. And I was so thrilled. I kept that thing for years and years.

W.P.: How about Mrs. Burns?

MAGGARD: Mrs. Burns, she was the Little Girls' house mother and of course I didn't stay 9:00at the Little Girls' House. But I did help one year before school started, assist her in getting the rooms ready for the girls. And something that impressed me very much was her devotion to seeing that their rooms were all in excellent order for the girls. And I'm sure she welcomed them in a very nice manner.

W.P.: Did you know Miss Furman?

MAGGARD: No I didn't.

W.P.: And Miss Cobb?

MAGGARD: Miss Cobb taught Latin. I didn't like Latin. But I have no other special remembrances.

W.P.: How about your house mothers? How did you feel about....

MAGGARD: Well, I'll start first with my first house mother, who was Miss Foster. She would sometimes read to us girls, after we had gone to bed. She could, the girls would open the door to the bedroom and all four of us girls could hear her reading. And I think that was very, very nice. She was a very kind lady. On Saturday evenings sometimes she would take us up town 10:00and buy us each a cone of ice cream. That was a big treat, because we didn't have anything special to do Saturday evenings. One of the most outstanding things I think that I learned from her, was that some Saturday afternoons she would invite any of us girls who wished to come to the big hall in Hillside, no big hall up in Hillside, yeah. And she would play classical music on the Victrola. And that was my introduction to classical music and I've loved it ever since. And I wished later I could have gotten in contact with her, to tell her just what that had meant to me.

W.P.: Where there other house mothers that you liked very much? 11:00MAGGARD: I liked all of them. Miss Elkin was a dietician and also housemother of us girls at Orchard House. More of the girls stayed there, than any place else. We had more dormitory rooms. I, when I worked in the dining room, I learned quite a few things from her. I learned about the care for the table. The oval, the dining room tables were so wonderful. They were I think, dark walnut with a black lacquer. They were always kept in such fine condition. It just did me good to help keep those tables in good order. And about flowers for the tables and place mats and table cloths and all those things were just things I enjoyed very much. So, I learned a lot from Miss Elkin and she was a nice house mother too. And she was in charge of us of course, 12:00when we would have our study hour at night. We'd have one hour after dinner, when we'd all sit around. This was in Orchard House, in the, around the tables, in the big family room, and do our homework.

W.P.: Another housemother?

MAGGARD: Oh another. Well, I did stay at Practice Home one year. When I stayed there, Miss Van Meter was our house mother. That's what they called them all, house mother. And she was great. She would play the piano sometimes. She was such a jolly person, always happy. She was nice to us girls, but we lived as a family there.

W.P.: Can you repeat any ( ) MAGGARD: Let me see, another one that was outstanding to me was, Miss Bond, Melissa Bond. She was the nurse up at the hospital. And the year I stayed 13:00there, I was to assist her in whatever chores I needed to do. I recall one year, we had an outbreak of ungulate fever, which was from the milk from the cows, diseased cows. And we had several in the hospital there, and I was quite busy in my off hours, helping do things. And I would sterilize all the vessels that they used for eating and such. It so happened that one fellow was so ill that he deceased, and that was quite an experience. But anyway, Miss Bond stood out as a very outstanding, outgoing person and I loved her very much. 14:00W.P.: Did you do any farm work?

MAGGARD: The girls didn't do any farm work, no. The boys did all of that.

W.P. : And how about craft making, baskets or weaving? Did you participate?

MAGGARD: We students didn't participate in crafts, that was really done, those were really done by people outside of the settlement. We did have weaving. Jethro Amburgey's wife, let's see Marie Ramey, I believe her name was, taught weaving. And I learned about carding and spinning and weaving. I wove two area rugs and a pair of draperies, which I thought were nice. And one little point I will mention about those, when I went to stay in the dormitory at Lee's Junior College, I had them at my window. My room was on the second floor. And Doctor Van Meter in passing by saw my draperies and he asked me about them. He thought they were beautiful. So, 15:00I believe that would be the extent.

W.P.: Do you have memories of other people than teachers, like cooks, grounds people or office workers?

MAGGARD: I think I've gone into those pretty much, the housemothers.

W.P.: Yes, but these are different. Cook, was there a special cook?

MAGGARD: No, no special.

W.P.: Or office workers?

MAGGARD: No, I really don't. I remember some of us girls would stay and work in the kitchen in the on Sundays. A few of us would be selected from Orchard House to make sandwiches for Sunday evening. Sunday evenings, we didn't sit at the tables. Chairs were lined up, tables were moved back and chairs were lined up and down the dining room. And we were served punch and sandwiches. So, some of us would stay from Sunday school, 16:00not more than once a month or so, and make sandwiches. So, I really don't remember working much in the kitchen. I'm sure I did though.

W.P.: Fine. Do you remember anything about your Christmas and graduation ceremonies?

MAGGARD: Oh, Christmas was really something. We weren't allowed to go home for Christmas until Christmas morning, after we got our stockings. First, nice friends of the settlement, mainly from up in the east, would purchase and send down gifts for all the students, knowing that many of us didn't receive very much from our families, Christmas. Because we were in a rather poverty stricken area, with little contact with the outside world and not many jobs. So, after breakfast Christmas morning, we would all go up to Hillside house. And in the large hall up there, they had shelves, 17:00and on the shelves were gifts, each one section was labeled with our gifts. The one that is most outstanding to me was a doll, a porcelain, porcelain head and hands and feet. It was beautifully dressed with beautiful hair. And in addition to being beautifully dressed, there were extra clothes for it. Oh, so they were immaculately constructed. And I kept that doll until not too long ago.

W.P.: How about graduation?

MAGGARD: When I first went there and other years, as I would attend graduation exercises, each class member, of course there were only a few members of each class, would give a special talk. I don't remember what the subjects had to be, maybe their plans for the future or such. 18:00I just thought I would never be able to do that when I was a senior and have to get up there and stand in front of a large group in the auditorium by myself So, I don't know how it happened, but anyway, I guess we decided we wanted it and it was okay. Marie Stewart and I did a dialogue together and we talked about school and what it meant to us and also each gave the prediction of what would happen to the other, professionally. So I got through it.

W.P.: Do you have special memories of the settlement school, other than what you have already told us?

MAGGARD: Well, there are lots of good memories of the settlement. Going back to recreation, I think I talked a little bit about our recreation. 19:00Something that we would enjoy doing, of course we had lots of hillsides and roads in the summer where we could take walks. So, if a group of us could find a chaperone, we would walk, take a walk Sunday afternoons, and I enjoyed those an awful lot. Of course, Sunday afternoons there was what they called a "Quiet Hour." A bell rang and everyone was to be in his or her room and be quiet for an hour. So, I never felt the need to be quiet, [Laughing] I think, so it was great that we would get to take those nice walks in the mountains or either by the roadside.

W.P.: Could you tell us what the town was like?

MAGGARD: Well, the town was small. Leading to the town, leading from the Kindergarten Building up where the library stands now, 20:00there was a boardwalk leading from there, all the way to uptown. That way then when the roads were bad, why there was a nice, nice road. And at the first comer at the left, when you got into town, was Laskey's General Store, Department Store. Then we had the barber shop and the dentist and the bank. I think they were mostly adjoining each other. And across the street was the Bailey Hotel. It was used mainly when they would have court sessions at Hindman and I imagine they had a restaurant there also, where they could eat as well as sleep. And I don't remember about an eating place. There must have been some little restaurant of some kind at Hindman. I'm sure there must have been, but I don't recall. 21:00Then there was the, I think I've mentioned about all, there were the two churches at the end of the town. I imagine the town was the equivalent of a block or two. The Baptist church and the Methodist church and they are in the vicinity still today. And, oh yeah! I didn't mention the doctor's offices. There was Doctor Duke and Doctor Kelly. So, we had two doctors, and I hope that I didn't leave something important out.

W.P.: Did you have a dentist?

MAGGARD: Did I have a what?

W.P.: Did you have a dentist in town?

MAGGARD: Yeah, I thought I mentioned the dentist, I'm sorry if I didn't. Yeah, we had a dentist.

W.P.: What sorts of things were there to do in town?

MAGGARD: There just weren't any activities that I know of in town. [Laughing] Court Day, well Election Day was one big event. And a lot of the boys 22:00would get drunk. Oh, election was something. We didn't go to town on Election Day. I think I was there once, maybe after I was out of school and teaching. But the Court Day was the big day. And I don't think we ever went down during court, the first Court Day. Maybe it was just one day, I don't know. But anyway, more people came from around the county. I'm glad to say that my family and my relatives just didn't go to Court Day, unless they were on the jury or something like that. But so many people did go. A bunch of the men would bring their old, plug horses and under, around under Lodge Hick's Store, down where the creek was. They would ride them up and down 23:00and get all the strength they could out of them and trade. And of course, they were drinking and they had their spurs. And their poor mules, or horses just had to do the best they could. And other people would just parade about, and as I said, some probably would drink, I don't know. But it was the big thing. A lot of the girls would come and parade up and down, I guess probably looking for some fellows. There just weren't social activities, no theater, or special activities at all for the townspeople. But we were fortunate in the settlement, that we did have our own activities.

W.P.: Did you have a best friend or best friends?

MAGGARD: No, I think that we were all so close together that 24:00we were just friends with each other. I may have at certain dormitories had someone special, but no one really is outstanding to me. We were all really friendly and chummy with each other.

W.P.: And what did you do together?

MAGGARD: What did we do together?

W.P.: Uh hmm.

MAGGARD: Well, I think I mentioned some of the things that we did. We would, let's see, I don't know. We were just I guess busy with our studies and our work. Maybe, oh yeah, at Orchard House they had a swing out front and all the girls would swing. And maybe we'd have a songfest where we would sing, just things that you would probably do at your own home.

W.P.: Did you see any changes in the school from when you started to when you graduated?

MAGGARD: No, changes hadn't started 25:00taking place. The changes came when the roads came and then they started getting the consolidated school and the school buses. Things had stayed really the same the six years that I was there. I think we got maybe more water in some of the buildings than we did previously.

W.P.: Could you talk about the impact of the settlement school on your life?

MAGGARD: Well it was a great impact on my life. I've been so, so grateful for the settlement school. We were inspired to look ahead and get a better education. And I especially had that feeling, I didn't want to settle down in the mountains at first. I had the feeling that I wanted to see what was on the other side of the mountains. And of course, the teachers, some of them inspired us to 26:00want to widen our horizons. The settlement was just a great influence and a wonderful, wonderful time.

W.P.: Can you recall anything specific why settlement really or how settlement school developed you in what direction? You mentioned some ....

MAGGARD: Miss Elkin, I think was a great influence to me. Now, of course, she wasn't a favorite of some, but I guess because I was interested in all the beautiful, beautiful things, such as the dining room, various things. And the flowers, many things like that. And also the home economics teachers, none of them stand out especially, but they 27:00were a great influence on me. And I realized then that I wanted to be a home economist and I stuck to it. And anytime I would try to deviate from being a home economist I was not successful. But I was successful in my career in that field.

W.P.: How was the impact of the settlement school on the community?

MAGGARD: One of the things that stands out to me, is that we had such beautiful lawns at the settlement. Everything was just so clean. There was never any mess, no papers strewn, no garbage thrown out or anything. But out in the county, many of the people just dumped all their garbage outside the yard and they just figured 28:00if it was outside, forget about it. I remember one of our teachers, he was a local man from Emmolina, John M ... John Morgan, I think it was John Morgan. At one of the classes he just happened to bring up the subject about the influence of the settlement in the community in the beauty. He said, as one would travel about the county and see a beautiful yard and the surroundings very well kept and all, the family there was usually a graduate, one of the family members, a graduate of the settlement school. So I think making things more beautiful, really was a big influence. There was many ways that it influenced the community.

W.P.: How about the economic development of the community? The community was so impoverished did the settlement school do anything to help? 29:00MAGGARD: Yes, we were rather isolated, not having roads. And there weren't jobs, opportunities for jobs. So many of the people developed crafts and it was so nice that Miss Stone and probably assistants, found markets for their crafts. Weaving is one that I am aware of, my friend Alma, was telling about. Their family weaving, made the most beautiful coverlets and various items. And they got a market for them. And people would sell eggs to the settlement and they would make baskets. I remember learning how to do a basket. I don't remember whether I learned it in the settlement or not. And they would sell those. And people would make chairs, cane chairs. I imagine they made things for the settlement as well as for outside markets. So, those people 30:00got money, much needed money. And then also people would sell produce to the settlement. They had the farms, and Doc Pratt, I believe his first name was Doc Pratt, managed the farms. And I imagine he had some help and they got employment and of course he was able to educate his children.

W.P.: You're talking about the farms at the settlement, right?

MAGGARD: What?

W.P.: You're talking about the farms of the settlement, right?

MAGGARD: Yeah, the settlement had their own farm. And they grew quite a bit of the produce and the flowers. And oh, I remember the flowers lining the walk from the high school and Kindergarten over to where the dormitories were. Let's see that was, peonies, beautiful peonies in the spring, around graduation time. And I think the girls would 31:00sometimes carry peonies when they graduated. It was quite an impact on the whole county in many respects.

W.P.: Is there anything ...

MAGGARD: And I might add, that it is still an impact in a different way on the county.

W.P.: Is there anything that you feel would be important to report?

MAGGARD: Let's see, I need to go back and tell about the town, I guess. Yeah, this was very important to me. There was a custom in that area, and I don't know what country it came from, that around Christmas time, Christmas morning, before Christmas, they would shoot firecrackers. And I mentioned other activities uptown. There were some boys. Well, there was one ringleader, 32:00Craig Bailey. And they would shoot firecrackers and it just didn't seem to be safe to walk on the streets, because they would just throw them across the sidewalk where you would be walking. So, that wasn't very good. And then the sad thing that happened was, I think Craig would be considered the leader of the gang today. Anyway he was the leader of some of the other boys, and I don't know what they got to doing. But they did something, I guess it was in the classrooms or outside of the school or what, but they acted up so, that the settlement just had to close the school. And of course, the school was financed by the settlement mostly and maybe some by the county. And they had to close the school. I think 33:00this must have happened some time in April. And it didn't open until the first of, until the fall school year. And so all the students went home, most all of them. I remember hearing about one boy being reprimanded very much by his father. And that was, Mr. Perkins, when Carl Perkins was a boy. Of course, he wasn't a leader, but he was one of the boys that participated. And I heard that his father disciplined him very much. His father was a lawyer, and I imagine a leader and his mother was a well-educated woman and wanted to bring her children up well.

END OF TAPE 20 A 55, GERTRUDE MAGGARD, SIDE A BEGINNING OF TAPE 20 A 55, GERTRUDE MAGGARD, SIDE B MAGGARD: So, I think everyone knows about Carl Perkins and the contributions he made to the county when he was in Congress. And all the vocational schools that he gets the credit for getting established, so children who didn't want 34:00to go on to college, or maybe in high school didn't learn so well, well they could go to the vocational school and learn a trade. Wait, I'm not through. [TAPE GOES OFF AND COMES ON] W.P.: Goon.

MAGGARD: I wanted to mention Decoy. Miss Stone and I imagine of course, she had help, they decided to establish a school in Decoy. It was a very isolated place to have a school. They had put up a building, a dormitory like building in a beautiful setting, slightly up on a hill, overlooking a lovely forest. And they had that one large dormitory, one large family room on the first floor and a dining room and kitchen and pantry. And on the second floor was a 35:00nice room for the house mother and then I believe about three small, very small rooms for the teachers. There were two teachers. And then they put up the school building, which had three nice rooms. It was a very nice school building. They had two teacher there. I happened to teach there from nineteen twenty-nine for three, for three years. I'd gone to school, no, nineteen thirty, thirty, thirty-one. I had gone to school and taken teacher training courses. At that time, you didn't have to be a college graduate to get a certificate. You just had to go to college and take courses in the fundamental subjects, to know how to teach and to be knowledgeable about those subjects. So, anyway I taught there about 36:00three years, and that place was a great influence on the people. I know one of the students, that's Smith, Elmo Smith, mentioned that he was inspired and many of the others were inspired to go on to high school on account of the teacher's influence there. He had gone and also his Aunt Frankie had gone. And I think she and her husband were associated with the settlement later. So that was a big influence on not only that area, but I guess it helped out the whole county in various ways. To get to this school, one had to go up Ball, cross the mountain and then down, I don't remember the name of the fork, Allen Fork or something 37:00like that. A little path following the creek. You could ride horseback and go into the little school. Another route that we took sometimes, would be to have a car pick us up at Buckhorn as far as a car could go, and then we would walk up the rest of the way of Buckhorn, across the mountain, a wooded mountain, and then down through Mr. Stacey's cornfield and we landed there almost at the school. The way wagons would go in, would be down at Quicksand, in Breathitt County. They could go down there and then take a wagon up to take supplies and various things to Decoy.

END OF INTERVIEW