Oral History Interview with Rebecca Ware

CASSIE MULLINS: Today's date is January the fourth, nineteen ninety-nine. And just go ahead and state your name.

REBECCA WARE: My name is Rebecca Ware.

C.M.: Just to get started Becky, I guess the best thing to do, just tell me a little bit about yourself, like where you grew up. And then kind of how you came to the settlement school, how you ended up here in the first place.

WARE: Okay. Well, I was born in Middleton, Ohio and we moved around quite a bit, with my dad's work. And we came, my dad was originally from Knott County, was born and raised here. He left Knott County at the age of sixteen, 1:00that was during the time so many people were leaving in the forties. And his father moved to Ohio. He married my mother and raised seven children. We later moved from Ohio to Oklahoma and then to Indiana. I was there, probably during my growing up years, seven years, and then we moved to Knott County. I was sixteen, my dad's father was ill and he wanted to come back. My dad was nearing retirement age and he wanted to be back in the hills of Kentucky to be with his dad. And so we got to do that. I came at sixteen, I went to Hindman High School in seventy-three, seventy-four. And then to Knott Central, that was their first year, in seventy-four and seventy-five. After high school, I went to Carl D. Perkins Vocational School. I worked at, 2:00they had what was called a college work-study program, where I could work with the teachers as a teacher's aide, at the vocational school. I did that through the week and worked on weekends at Casey's IGA. So, I did that for about two years with the Casey's IGA job. Actually the way I came to the Hindman Settlement School was through the Casey's IGA job.

C.M.: Really, how's that?

WARE: I met Michael, and Michael was here at Hindman Settlement School working under the Art Extension program. Michael came here in nineteen seventy-four. He was like right out of college actually. He probably graduated, I think he did actually graduate that December of seventy-four. After graduating college, he learned about this job 3:00at Hindman Settlement School and also about the possibility of pottery. Because pottery at one time had been done here with Naomi Powell doing the pottery. But after she left that wasn't being done anymore. So, he was really interested in the ceramics part of the job. So, he came one snowy, terrible December.

C.M.: I'd say so.

WARE: And Mr. Lionel Duff was here as director at that time and he hired Michael. So, it was just a thrill that he was going to be able to work in an area of his interest with the pottery and teaching art. He also liked the area. I think coming here, this rural area, was just what he wanted and needed. His parents didn't even know he was here, when he came for the interview. And he called from Kentucky and said, "mom, dad, I'm in Kentucky and I was just hired for a job." [Laughing] C.M.: So, he actually, he came first.

WARE: He came first.

C.M.: And then you met him.

WARE: And I met him. He would come into Casey's IGA, that was the little 4:00IGA at Leburn. And buy his, I guess his needed food, you know, for the weekends, although there were meals here. He liked baking cookies, that was one of the things I remembered. He would get his cookie ingredients, and so I met him, working as a cashier. I was a cashier there. So, then we came to the Hindman Settlement School.

C.M.: So, you all did that after you got married?

WARE: Right.

C.M.: So, when did you get married?

WARE: In November 5:00the sixth, nineteen seventy-six.

C.M.: Right before me.

WARE: Right. That's right. And then we pretty well settled in. That was a terrible winter. There was like forty or more days of just constant snow and ice. So, that winter, it really started that December. Well, even November sixth, our wedding day, that evening it started to snow and it seemed like it snowed from then on, almost. [Laughing] There was [were] so many days of school, that they didn't have school that year, seventy-six and seventy-seven. They almost had two months, no school. So, what I did is during that time, is I really volunteered when I first came, to help out where it was necessary.

C.M.: Did you all live on campus?

WARE: We lived on campus.

C.M.: Where did you all live?

WARE: In the Catherine Pettit Building, the first apartment.

C.M.: What was that like?

WARE: Well, you can imagine. [Laughing] Actually that building was made for a dormitory. So, it [was] really dorm like, it wasn't really set up for, you know, housing, to actually home life. But it's a cinder block building. 6:00And actually, as Mr. Still called it, the Titanic, you know, perched on that hillside, [Laughter] wasn't engineered quite right. It was cold, the very high ceilings. The heat stayed up on the ceiling, and it leaked terribly. But we were just thankful, I guess, newly married that we had an apartment. And we began to fix up and paint and it made it nice. One of the things was, there was doors, you could go from the first apartment, clear to the fourth apartment.

C.M.: Oh, really?

WARE: Without even going outdoors.

C.M.: I remember those doors.

WARE: Yeah. So that was interesting with the children, because we still had a few students here when I came. We had a few male students who stayed in the Catherine Pettit Building. 7:00And our female students stayed in the dormitory of this May Stone Building. And that was probably one of the first jobs I did, was to work with the students, with their jobs.

C.M.: And you were just a volunteer.

WARE: Yeah, for like the first two months. From November and December I pretty well just helped out here and there.

C.M.: So what sort of things, specifically?

WARE: Well, at first I worked with the weaving, for a little bit, just to get the idea of how, what they were doing with it. I did a lot of cleaning, just where, you know, and maybe just helped with the students when they were cleaning. I worked in the office some, did some typing and filing and that kind of thing. We also had a daycare program then, and a Kindergarten. So, I did some of that, too, just whatever was necessary, and what they needed me.

C.M.: So you did a little bit of everything.

WARE: That's right. So actually, I guess it was more like the later part of December that I really moved into a job, and when I first began to receive a salary. I would work part time 8:00as a secretary and then part time with the Kindergarten children. So my mornings were in the office and the afternoons was with the Kindergarten children. I helped with their nap time and their art time, is what I worked with. And Mrs. Duff, she was the Kindergarten teacher then.

C.M.: Okay, so the Kindergarten was part of the settlement school. It wasn't a public school?

WARE: That's right. And actually at that time, the settlement school was the only one, I think, doing the Kindergarten, at that time. So, that was seventy-six, seventy-seven. But I think down through history, you can read where the settlement school actually had the Kindergarten all along, I think.

C.M.: And Mrs. Duff was in charge of that part?

WARE: Right, she did that the last, her time here, 9:00wonderful kids. She was teaching them, they could folk dance. They were reading by the time they left here. They were great. But I enjoyed that part. It was nice to have a variety in my job with the children. So, I really did that, probably that second semester and that would have been January seventy-seven to May seventy-seven.

C.M.: When you were working in the office that part time, what were your duties? Do you remember, like things that you had to do?

WARE: Basically, really wasn't as much, afraid to say, going on as much. We have grown a lot, in the last twenty-two years, since I've been here. So, it was mostly answering the telephone and you might answer letters or sending thank you letters ....

C.M.: So, just like basic office work.

WARE: For donations. Right, 10:00basically. We did have a project that we worked on that winter in seventy-seven with the Appalachia Studies Program. And actually over the years, we have actually continued that to some extent with universities coming in and, to learn about the area and that kind of thing.

C.M.: And that was the thing that I was kind of wondering about, I'm sorry if I interrupt you. I'm just thinking of things while we're talking. That way we can go back to things as we're going. Because I haven't talked to anybody that was here at the time that you were, so this is going to be, this is really good stuff for Jess, because there is [are] a lot of gaps, that we don't know what happened in the seventies, because there were people that came in, that might have been here for a year and left. And so we've got you, who's been here for a while to talk to. [Laughter] When you first came to the settlement school, 11:00you said you were a young married couple. And obviously you just dove right in, the second you got here and started working.

WARE: Right.

C.M.: And doing a lot of different things. So, you were part of the campus, even as a volunteer. What was it like here? What was the atmosphere like? Just being part of the settlement school, the programs. Maybe even what the campus looked like, the buildings and things.

WARE: Well, I think at that time, the buildings were really in ill repair. They needed a lot of work. And I think with the direction of Mr. and Mrs. Duff, the money really was not available to do a whole lot. And that was one of the major things. And I don't think there was that much going on with fundraising at that time. And it's not the fault of Mr. Duff, I think Mr. and Mrs. Duff, they did a good job for 12:00when they were here. And while the fact that when they came here, they directed, you know, the campus. But the fundraising and that sort of thing really fell through the cracks, I think at that point. They didn't have the experience for fundraising and he wasn't in, being an older, retired man, probably in the position of being able to travel a lot. And I think that was one of the things, they spent the money carefully, because there wasn't that much to spend. They kept the buildings extremely, immaculate clean, but there was a lot of problems with wiring and water. A lot of problems with just the plumbing. And I know 13:00after that year, I was here that year, seventy-six, seventy-seven, in December was when Mike Mullins came. And then things began to change and they really, it was good timing. Because the facilities were falling apart. And it was really, I know, a challenge for him, as well as everyone else that these things got done. It just had to happen, that things got fixed. And it might have been, the money wasn't there, but it had to be, things had to be repaired. And as he got active getting everything repaired, and then 14:00begin to fund raise, the money came in. And it is not always that, we haven't always had money. I don't want to focus on the money, but you have to have ...

C.M. : Right, you're talking about the physical structure.

WARE: .... finances to do things. And I really felt that a lot of times, Mr. Duff was always afraid of never having enough money, so they never spent, you know. Maybe not take the risk of spending, which it was necessary that it be done. I don't know how I want to say that.

C.M.: I think I understand what you're saying. I think you're doing a good job of explaining it, because as you said, he was the one in charge. So, he had to make sure he spent it. Or he could spend what he had, because it's non-profit, you just don't have it. 15:00WARE: So, I think as Mike came along and was able to, being younger, more energetic, be involved. And realizing that this place needed money, and sometimes having to spend some that wasn't there, you know? Just to keep the heat on or the electricity going. I can remember the electricity lines were right on campus, from building to building and they were old lines. And we had a big storm and the lines got together and the office building, which was, we were using the Uncle Sol's cabin area as the office then. As the electric lines got together, the lights just like exploded, too much electricity was coming in. And that was one of the first things, I think, that Mike did, was to correct the electricity problem, because it was bad. We were losing what little equipment we had, which was very little. 16:00Mike likes to say I had a manual typewriter with half the keys not working. I did actually have an electric typewriter with half the keys not working. [Laughing] C.M.: That's a little bit better.

WARE: So it was almost like a manual, actually. It was a need for a change. And a lot of what was going on in seventy-six, seventy-seven was we had our art and music extension programs. And we had our day care and our Kindergarten and then we had the high school students, which were very few.

C.M.: That lived here.

WARE: Right. And I really think that dwindled, having the high school kids here. Children have a lot more freedom at home. And I think so many of them have their own cars and you know, the roads have so improved, even then twenty-two years ago, the roads were better. 17:00And so after the students who were here, many of them were seniors, graduated, there just really wasn't a need to continue the boarding program. So many times students didn't like the structure that they would have in a boarding program. But it was necessary to keep them safe and keep them working and busy, because all the students had jobs that they needed to do, and that was expected of them.

C.M.: That's interesting that you brought that up, because from the moment this school was started and the boarding was started, used to be people would wait, a year or two to get in, you know, to live here. Because it was so much better than maybe living at home with ten kids, or just to get an education here. You're talking about even in the late seventies 18:00or mid-seventies, it would have been unusual for students to live on campus. But you said there were still a few boys and girls. What were their, I guess what were their responsibilities? Because it wouldn't be the same as in the early years when they had to milk cows and things. So, what did they have to do?

WARE: Well, we still had the kitchen work and that was one of the major things. And actually they had all students help with the dishes, even the male students. That was probably one of the biggest things. And they were expected to keep their dorms clean and their bedding clean. And the boys worked some on the grounds, you know, just cleaning up, keeping the porches swept, that kind of thing. And I think they did do some mowing after school. But at that time we probably only had maybe twenty, at the most twenty-five kids. Most of these kids would have been ones from the remote areas. They might 19:00have been on the bus an hour to maybe two hours at a time.

C.M.: Like maybe Quicksand and places?

WARE: Most of them were from Quicksand Decoy area. And that was one of the reasons for them wanting to be here, is not to be on the bus so much.

C.M.: Did they stay here on the weekends too, or did they go home?

WARE: They went home on weekends, and that was one of the things, I think in earlier years, they didn't go home. But, they went home every weekend, the majority. There was probably rare cases where one of them would have stayed, you know, through the weekend. And we would have house parents that lived in.

C.M.: Who did that at that time?

WARE: Early on, they had a young couple here, Carla Huff, Hauk and her husband, and then after that it was later on, as Mike came, we had just various ones.

C.M.: Didn't Jim help, Jim Phelps?

WARE: He helped some with the boys. I think he helps quite a bit that way. 20:00We had Harve Combs and his wife, Elizabeth that worked with the students. That was a good way of doing it, I think. But I really think that as time went on and towards the end, I think it was probably seventy-eight or seventy-nine, when we had the last students. It was just time, because we had less requests of people wanting to board. Like I said, I think the roads had improved and I really think students had so much more freedom at home to go and come as they pleased. And that couldn't have been allowed at the settlement school. Somebody needed to know where the students were at all times. And 21:00so many didn't really like that to work. They might not have had to do that at home. It was quite different, I think, seventy-six from the fifties or probably even early sixties.

C.M.: Oh, I would think so.

WARE: And I know there are some that would say that they learned to work, when they came to the settlement school.

C.M.: In terms of the programs and things that were going on.

WARE: That was one of the things I did do though.

C.M.: I'm sorry.

WARE: Was I worked with the girls' work program. I worked with them that next summer, after the Kindergarten was out. And I did that through, from summer through December, I guess, it would have been for me. And that was a difficult job, because here I was twenty years old, [Laughing]. ...

C.M.: Not much older than they were.

WARE: .... not much older and they didn't want me telling them. So, I wound up, I worked side 22:00by side with them and wound up doing probably as much or more. But one thing, we kept things clean. That was expected of them. That was probably the most difficult part, my job.

C.M.: But in terms of the programs, as I was saying before, you mentioned the Kindergarten and the day care, and did you also say we had art and music teachers?

WARE: Right.

C.M.: Now, who were maybe some people that were here? I guess kind of describe just what you mean by the ....

WARE: Oh, the extension?

C.M.: Yeah, what was that? I mean, I understand what it is, but just so we can have this down.

WARE: What they would do is hire credentialed art and music teachers to come in and they would be employed by the Hindman Settlement School, but they would go out into the Knott County schools and teach art or music. This was a way of supplementing the school system, the settlement school in cooperation. I think a lot of times 23:00the settlement school would pay for everything, the teacher and sometimes the supplies. But as time went on, Knott County would help with that area. And then later on they were able to submit some money to help with art and music teachers in the county. And really if I understand correctly, Knott County was one county that always had art and music for a lot of years. And it was because of the Hindman Settlement school that they had art and music teachers. And these were certified teachers and we would have usually three music and three art [classes] and they would reach, almost well, every school in Knott County.

C.M.: And they lived here, right?

WARE: Right. And they would get paid a small stipend of cash and then their room and board would be paid. So, that's why so many, especially your very young teachers 24:00who were just out of college would have a place to come to, to live. A house would already be provided or, you know, their apartment. And early years, they didn't even have to have a car, because a car would be provided. But that was one thing that as time went on, was changed. Well, just the expense of the insurance and that sort of thing. And then keeping the cars running was a lot. So, later it was, as a teacher would be hired, they would need to have their own transportation. But having some place to come to, and being straight out of college was just really an ideal situation. It was one of the things Michael liked about it. And nice place to live, for the most part. Those earlier years, the apartments weren't great, but you know. And having the food prepared for you, was a big plus.

C.M.: So that's what Mike was doing right? He was one of the extension teachers going out.

WARE: Right.

C.M.: Well, that's interesting what you said about the food, because that's always been a question I ask people, because it's so interesting the setting 25:00of how people ate their meals. In earlier years, of course I'm talking about the thirties and forties, everybody sat down. Like that whole dining room would have been packed, and it was an occasion. Every meal was an occasion, flowers on the table, pass the food around. Here we are in the seventies and the meals are still provided. What was it like, the dining room, even the food? What kind of food did you all have?

WARE: Well, we did that for a lot of years when I first came here, did family style. The bowls were on the table and you passed them around. It was a time that people could come together after their jobs and share and talk. We used to have all three meals, the breakfast, lunch and supper. And I think the breakfast was a nice time for your single people, especially when they could come in and sit and would see somebody 26:00in the morning and share coffee with, or whatever. I think it was a good time, you know, it was a good thing with the three meals. But, one of the things I think that happened and we discontinued having the breakfast meal, was that as schedules were changing all the time and you had teachers, and probably at one point, we probably added other schools, maybe that weren't being served. And people would be leaving before daylight to go to some of those schools, especially the very remote ones. So it was just hard to get everybody's schedule together and get it so that people could all come 27:00to breakfast at the same time, so we discontinued that.

C.M.: What kind of, or was the food good?

WARE: I thought it was, it was just, you know, the mountain food. Most of our cooks were the mountain cooks. When I first came, I thought they used an awful lot of, and you've probably have heard this, lots of margarines and lard.

C.M.: Well, that definitely sounds like mountain food.

WARE: It was always, I think, prepared well. With Michael being from Pennsylvania, that cooking is so much different. And you did have so many different people coming from so many different areas. Michael came from Pennsylvania and he taught art. Cindy Sensenig was in music and she came from Pennsylvania area, so with their dietary, [Laughing] ways were so much different. Because there, your vegetables are just 28:00steamed and nothing put on them usually. That was one of the things I think he had a hard time getting used to. But where my roots were actually in the hills of Kentucky. My father being born here, he liked the old mountain way of cooking. So, I really for the most part grew up with that. So, I thought it was fine. I really thought it was great. We always had the wonderful biscuits and gravy and that sort of thing.

C.M.: Sounds good to me.

WARE: So, I always enjoyed that. And actually Michael never complained about the food, it was just not his way of.. ..

C.M.: It was just different.

WARE: Right. And the thing of it is, there was always something that someone could eat. If it wasn't, some of the dishes weren't what they would prefer, there was something else. The bread was always good.

C.M.: Who was the cook when you were here?

WARE: When I first came, we had Coris Sparkman and Emily Wright and 29:00we also, very early on had Eltra Roberts. And she was like mother to everybody.

C.M.: How was she around the students? Because I haven't...

WARE: She was very motherly.

C.M.: We interviewed her, just kind of briefly which is kind of difficult, hard to remember a lot of things now. But that is something, people that kind of stand out. I didn't know if there were any workers or maybe like a cook or somebody that you remember from that time.

WARE: I think with Mrs. Roberts, it was like she was very motherly. And she especially, I think, mothered Michael, because he was here and he didn't have any family, no one. And she knew he liked the raw vegetables, so she wouldn't cook them very much and save him out a few. A few of the potatoes maybe just still crispy or something. She loved just all the kids, I think. She loved being with them and teaching them. She was a good teacher, I think, when it came to the kitchen, I think she taught the girls 30:00an awful lot. She was here just the early part of the time that I was here, probably that year. She retired probably in seventy-seven, I think it was. So, she was here, probably a semester after Mike came. And he loved her and wanted her to stay right on, but she really felt the need to retire. And so then she got another job. [Laughing] C.M.: Yeah, a hard one.

WARE: That's right. She babysitted [babysat]. She loved the kids and I think this was her life. I don't think the pay was ever enough and it never has been 31:00for the people who work here. But I think it has been all the other things that come along with the job, and that is people. You don't have an institution without people, that's what makes it. And just as people have come and gone, you meet so many different, new ones.

C.M.: That's true.

WARE: And then to know why you are here, you know? The programs have changed throughout the years as they needed to change to continue. And Michael and I, after having Matthew and then his need for the dyslexia program. I don't know what we would have done. And then our work and our involvement with it was so important. As Michael says, whether Matthew realized it helped him at all with the dyslexia program, at least he understood that his parents were there rooting for him and hoping for the best and working hard with it. But I think you stay 32:00at a place, not, you can't look at the money that you receive. It has to mean something to you. And I think a lot of times, the people who have stayed here, it's not something, and it's meant the people and the programs and that you're doing good. And it is about helping others. And I really think even in those early days, and as even we were talking about Eltra, that's why she was here. She really was there, not just to cook, but even in her cooking was teaching. Because she would teach those girls how to cook or clean or take care of a kitchen, it was important.

C.M.: Let me turn this over.

END OF TAPE 20 A 52, REBECCA WARE, SIDE A BEGINNING OF TAPE 20 A 52, REBECCA WARE, SIDE 33:00B C.M.: Okay, I'm going to turn it back on. You were just talking about, you were saying like Mrs. Roberts had stayed here for so many years, just a lot of people have. How many years have you been here?

WARE: I've been here twenty-two, so October, I mean November would have been twenty-two.

C.M.: That's what I thought. Well, let's get into a little bit, first of all, that stuff that we just talked about, I think will be wonderful. It gives me a very good picture of what it was like here in seventy-six and seventy-seven, when you came. And even before when Michael was here for a little while. And then we would have had the change of administration, when my dad came in December of seventy-seven. Right? I guess let's talk about that a little bit, because you said before that was a major, that was a change. I guess it would have been a major change because you have a new person coming in. I guess what were, what was your job at that time when he came? What were you doing?

WARE: Actually when he came, I was working in the office, and this is kind of a funny story, I don't know whether I should tell it. [Laughing] C.M.: Oh, I'm sure it will be okay. 34:00WARE: But the secretary who was here, knew him, knew Mike, because she had worked under an Upper Bound Program, under oral history with him. And she didn't want to be here when he came, she would have had to work. [Laughter] To tell you the truth, there wasn't that much going on, during that time. You would find her a lot of times, just kind of sleeping on the job, [Laughter] and not doing a whole lot. I really think that's probably why I spent so much time cleaning and doing all the other kind of jobs that I was doing. Because I'm more of a busy, I wanted to keep busy. So she quit. She decided if Mr. Duff wasn't going to be here, she didn't want to be, so I was secretary then. I don't know 35:00if I should tell this one either, but Mr. Duff really thought that as Mike came, he was going to replace everybody anyway.

C.M.: Really?

WARE: He really thought that. And I'm not sure what made him think that, unless that was just how things maybe were done back then, or something. When a new director ...

C.M.: I guess they thought a new person ...

WARE: He told me, he would just bring his own secretary and that I wouldn't be needed anymore.

C.M.: Oh well.

WARE: But I still stuck around. And I really, that might have been why Rita actually left. But she was worried, oh, he's a workaholic. [Laughing] C.M.: She was right.

WARE: Yeah, but I liked it. I enjoyed all the work. It was just great, I thought, staying busy. My office didn't stay as clean, when tidying came, because we were too busy. 36:00[Laughing] But I spent a lot of time cleaning and my filing was certainly straight. That was all necessary work, but we weren't busy quite enough. Because Mike came and really got the donor list going, with the fund raising as things began to grow.

C.M.: Yeah, so what were some of the changes that you remember, when he first came in?

WARE: I think one of the, and I think it was probably a major change, things weren't being filed like they needed to be, like letters or that sort of thing. And so when he came, we saved everything. We had some of the old things of the archives, which was great. Because when the women first came here, that was one thing, they must have been really interested in saving everything. And I think Mr. McClain saved some things, too, especially 37:00newsletters and things. But there wasn't a whole lot as far as correspondence with donors or you know. And so that was one of the first things. We got filing cabinets. We got a new typewriter, and we got busy. And we just filed everything.

C.M.: So, was it just you and dad in the office, at that point?

WARE: Right, and Mrs. Earp, she did the bookkeeping. And she would do the book keeping through like October, November. And actually I think she'd earlier part would stay through December, but by January she would go to California. And I would just kind of take care of it for her for the next couple of months, just writing the payroll, ,which was they were all salaried, you know, stipends. So, I would do her book keeping the couple of months that she would be gone. She'd come back in the Spring. And she did that for a lot of years until she retired. And she was seventy-four 38:00when she retired. And then I moved into her bookkeeping position.

C.M.: So, when was that?

WARE: That was in eighty-three. And in nineteen eighty-three, I had Matthew. And so that really made a little more flexible job. And in eighty-three, it was still, the book keeping was more of a part time position. So, having a small child, I was able just to work part time for about, oh I worked about three years more part time with the book keeping. And then as time went on the book keeping grew until it became a full time position.

C.M.: Yeah, that's something that I want to really focus on and let, so we can get an idea of that. What exactly were you doing as book keeper in the late .... Because essentially you were doing kind of part of it, as you said when Mrs. Earp was away. And you were kind of balancing those two jobs. But what were you expected to do after you became the bookkeeper? Because you said, kind of part time. What did that involve?

WARE: At that time it involved, you would pay all the bills and write the checks and do the payroll, 39:00you know, do your payroll tax and that kind of thing. And at that time, it was pretty much a part time position, you'd keep your general ledger. And then of course, in the summer, you would have your audit, your yearly audit. And they would come and audit your papers. I kept all the bills filed, that was one thing. We kept those filed thoroughly. But as time went on and the settlement began to grow and we really started moving into, somewhat the computer age. In eighty-three, 40:00actually it was eighty-two, we got the first Display Writer, and was working with that. Then by eighty-three, I became expecting. I worked with the Display Writer for that year and then Jan came. And she had some knowledge already working with the college to work with that.

C.M.: And so she pretty much took over the secretary position.

WARE: She pretty much took over the secretary position, that's right. And then I moved from the secretary position into the part-time bookkeeper. And then later, like I said, with the donor list and the mailing list, and having more checks coming in. The payroll grew some too, because we had added more teachers. Even like the adult ed., you know, we started having that, we added, actually added more programs. So, there was a lot more. And then as you grow, you have more bills to pay. So there was a lot more bills to pay, too. 41:00And you had a larger employee base and then with summer schools, with our dyslexia program, you have all that summer payroll. So, it became a full time job, probably in eighty-five, eighty-six, I guess. So, then I moved right into that full-time and sometimes I would fill in where it was needed for the secretary or whatever. I helped a lot with the purchasing and the kitchen things, as far as like purchasing supplies and stuff for the campus. So, that was probably part of the book keeping job, too. That was not directly just books. And then I think a lot of times you just do whatever needs done.

C.M.: Especially around here. 42:00WARE: Right.

C.M.: Talk about that a little bit, because I think that is a key thing for others to understand. Working here is not a normal job, it's not eight to four, it's not nine to five. It never has been. Talk about that a little bit, like why is it that way? From your point of view coming in, as you said in the seventies, going from helping with day care to eventually being in charge of all the money. Why is it like that?

WARE: I think you need to really have people who are willing to do whatever is necessary, whether it be, you know, clean the toilets or whatever. Because you become a community. I really think the Hindman Settlement School is a community, or it is very family like. And in a family you're going to do a lot of different jobs, you won't just have the one, you know, particular job. And I think it is just necessary 43:00to work at whatever is needed to be done, you know, at that time. And no one is just classified as doing this or doing that. And being willing to work at what is needed at that time, whether it would be helping with wrapping presents for Christmas or helping in the kitchen. You might even, doing the dishes or whatever. Making beds, just whatever, whatever you need to do. One thing I did do though during that early part of doing the bookkeeping in nineteen eighty-three, is we were really beginning to advance the dyslexia program. 44:00So, as I did have time, and there were times that it's not a total full time day, I would work with the dyslexia program some with the secretary position part of that. And he later hired someone to kind of direct and co-ordinate the different aspects of the dyslexia program, whether it was the screening process or whatever. And that's one of the things I did, as part of the secretary part of the dyslexia program, was I set up the screenings. And that would be the educational evaluation that the children would go through. And try to help answer questions if I could, of the dyslexia program. And we actually had that office in the building where I am, 45:00in that office, for a long time until the new building was built. And then they moved there. And then later, I remember Amy Daily, she was able to come and just take over that position as secretary and enjoyed it and did a tremendous job. So that was good, because we were beginning to grow even more. And then book keeping actually became, actually became a full time position. There really wasn't any room to do any more dyslexia secretary work, but I did do that. I had forgot about that. I did that those early years, too, probably eighty-six and eighty-seven, eighty-eight.

C.M.: Yeah, that would have been the beginning.

WARE: I worked with that part of the dyslexia program too. And little did we know then as Matthew got older, then he needed the program. So it was good to have that background that I did 46:00of the inside operations of the dyslexia program. And then to actually be a tutor, a parent tutor. And we felt really grateful that we had a dyslexia program.

C.M. : Well, talking about, that's interesting how you said it, I guess, by looking at how the book keeping has changed so much, you can see how the settlement school has changed so much, too.

WARE: That's right.

C.M.: And I guess pretty much it's been the last, well I guess the whole twenty-two years that you've been here, this has been a gradual growing process for you and your job in the school. I guess what are some of the main characteristics of change or things that when you think about the past twenty-two years? I know that there is no way we can talk about all of them. But what are the main things that stand out in your mind, 47:00as the settlement has advanced? In terms of your job and just in terms of its growth and programs and services that it provides.

WARE: I think one of the major things, is that we have kept the focus that this is an educational institution. And as programs were no longer needed, other programs were needed. And to be able to continue to change, is what has kept the settlement going. And as we get into technology and how important that is to change and we've been able to move right into that. That is what, I think, has kept us going and kept us a vibrant institution, is because we are willing to change. And to keep the focus on people, and to say, "how can we help?" You know, 48:00at one point we had, and I didn't mention this, as there was no longer a need for Kindergarten, we went into a Montessori program. Well that was needed, because there was [were] a lot of parents who said, "I would like my children to have another opportunity of a smaller classroom and hands on, you know, techniques." So, that was developed. And then that was not longer needed and then we moved into dyslexia, which was a program not being done in eastern Kentucky, nothing really available to those students. Probably finding needs and actually not having to go out to look, people coming to you and saying, "this is a need that I feel we can do here." 49:00Probably just realizing that change is necessary for continuation. And just in my area, with the bookkeeping, we went into computer. Well, we are in the computer age and we had to do it. And I can see where it has helped a lot, as far as the quickness, being able to do things quickly. Timewise, you know there is not enough time in the day to get everything done, but the computer is helping so far. And there will be total, constant changes, I think, in the technology of the book keeping. There may come a time when we no longer write checks, which is I am no longer writing them now by hand. The computer prints them out. There may be a time when 50:00we do direct deposit or whatever, and that will be all linked through the computer. And then now we have our Marie Stewart Craft Shop and that's a lot of technology right there. We'll move into the Visa and another way of receiving money.

C.M.: Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit, because it is so interesting from the financial aspect of all this. Because that is how you keep a place going. Like you said, that's how we build the buildings, that's how people get their paychecks. And so, when you first came in as the bookkeeper, you said you just wrote out the checks, right?

WARE: Right.

C.M.: It was payroll.

WARE: You just did everything by hand, everything was black and white.

C.M.: And describe what we have now. Like your system, your set up.

WARE: Okay. Well, what we do now, is we have a computer with a software program, that you have a payroll modular with it, you have a cash register or cash link, which is 51:00just like your checkbook. And that is all on the computer. You have your general ledger, which you can download from your, all the checks that you have written into your general ledger, so that's done. Your payroll, all three modulars [modules] are linked, so it really, you can put in, if you are doing it hourly, you can put your hourly in there and it does a lot of your calculations for you. So, as much as it was difficult to get it set up. [Laughing] C.M.: Well, yeah. It's not often that you do something like that.

WARE: But it was necessary and we needed to do it. And we can now print out the monthly general ledger, we can have reports now readily available. It was necessary, I think for the growth of the school. 52:00Because even with the secretary's office where we have our mailing list now on computer and keeping donations on that computer and being able to keep them current, whereas one of the things our auditor wanted us to do, was not just one person being aware of the checks coming in, another person. So, the secretary accounts for the checks and then it comes to the book keeper, so then you're always, there's two people involved with each check. So you are covered. You are not likely to lose something that way. So I think with fax machines, copiers, things that we sure didn't have when I came here early on. We had some sort of a copier, but you had to use two sheets, 53:00a negative and a positive. [Laughter] It was hard to use. And then we had a duplicator, where you put this ink in. We did that for a little bit. You had to cut a stencil, but we have grown, even from the Display Writer, which that was the first one for your word processing machine. That was like the first with IBM [International Business Machines]. It was a huge thing. It was a large piece of equipment, but all it really did was the word processing. It could keep your mailing list for the most part and you could correct letters, but nothing like what we have today, you know with desktop publishing or whatever.

C.M.: That's wild.

WARE: So, we've moved into big times really the change, necessary changes. And the buildings, Mike has worked constant, and it is a constant thing.

C.M.: Yeah, let's talk about that some, because as you said and just as I've heard from other people 54:00and pictures I've seen, the physical structures definitely had their problems.

WARE: What I understood is that very early, the women who started this school, put a lot of the money into endowments and didn't really put a whole lot into buildings, which that was a good focus. Because that is why the settlement school is still here. And there have been other institutions that were started near that time that have not been able to continue because they didn't have the money to continue. But they might have these nice buildings, you know, beautiful buildings. But also, you need money to repair the buildings, even those campuses, the buildings were really going, deteriorating very fast. And so I think it was timely in the later seventies to put money 55:00into the physical plant. That was probably one of the major things, I think that needed done.

C.M.: Have how things changed on campus?

WARE: Well, I think the buildings have certainly been improved structurally, mechanically, everything with the plumbing and the electricity. And also when things have needed repaired or remodeled or replaced, you know as programs were needed, like the dyslexia program, and then take one of the older buildings and try to keep the same structure, but then to build on to it. And then to make that structure more sound. So that's been neat, I think, is being able to take the old buildings, which really weren't great structures to begin with. But then to be able to make them good structures and build and correct needed 56:00structure faults, you know. Especially like with the Catherine Pettit, those early years with those apartments, where they leaked so badly and they were so cold. And that was one of the things Mike did, was able to raise money to get grants to lower those ceilings, which helped, I think, with heating the buildings, and to insulate them. They didn't use a lot of insulation back then. And one of the things, I think when they first built it, their fuel or gas was relatively inexpensive. And they were at one time, they could have free gas, as they would call it. Because the lines were on settlement school property, but that's no longer. And so as Mike came, the utility bills were high and that was one of the major things, I think, he wanted to do 57:00and did do, was to replace windows and insulate. It made a difference. And then as new buildings were being built, to really see that they were built well.

C.M.: In terms o fthe, as you were talking about fund raising and grants and the money, things like that. What is it that keeps the settlement going? Is it the fund raising? Is it the individual donor? I guess what is the most important thing in that area keeping it going?

WARE: Well, I think it has been the fundraising. Because you know Mike had the insight too, that the endowment had to be increased. In the earlier, later seventies, early eighties, we were getting pretty good interest on money, but as interest rates changed, it's no longer 58:00like that. So, they actually needed larger amounts of money in the endowment. That's what has kept it going, was the fundraising. Because you couldn't be doing these programs. And also with Mike's knowledge of the grant writing, which he had some experience with that. Knowing where to start, how to write the grants, and he would write a grant for a program that was necessary. The dyslexia program, he could get grant money to have students here for the summer, because many people can't pay. And he wouldn't be able to have a program like that, unless there was money coming in, because he had to pay salaries and just the extra food. And those programs are for the most part, boarding programs. It takes a lot of people, a lot of tutors and extra help. 59:00So that's what has actually ... I think with Mike coming and having the energetic, being able to have vision and ideas and putting them in place, knowing where to start. And if we were going to have a campus, that's where it had to be. You had to start with the campus. And one of the things, too, he started with staff housing. He really felt that was an important thing and people had a good place to live. Actually, that's what he had to offer, when he hired someone. Not that the money, there wasn't a large amount of money, but he could offer a nice place to stay, you know, to live, which made it enticing. And like I said, 60:00people had to have a mind set that they wanted to be here to help. To help, to be here, to serve. And that was why they came, I think. I really think that's why Michael was here a lot of times. When he came, and he'll tell you this, that he just felt like people here were very bright and talented. He loved the children here. That's why he stays, you know, I think. Now, you know being here so many years, he is teaching college and he'll have those students in college, now. And now, he'll even have those student's children in college. I think in order to 61:00stay in an institution like this you have to feel like what you're doing is important and that you're helping people. And it certainly has helped us. We have been able to first hand take advantage of programs, and that would be Matthew went in Montessori. He got to be with the dyslexia program. We felt fortunate, to not only be able to work here, but to be able to use the programs. I think that means a whole lot.

C.M.: I think so. Are there things that I haven't asked you about that you've thought about while we're talking? I know there are so many things.

WARE: Can't think of anything.

C.M.: I think we covered the early part really well, when you came and the changes. 62:00I didn't know if there was something you wanted to add.

WARE: Well, I just know that today, which is nineteen ninety-nine, that we always have more to do, than we can do, which is good. Because we know we will continue. And it has never been boring. There has always been a lot to do. And the work has always been changing, just from where I did it by hand with a pencil and books, to working with a computer. That's always changing as well. And I think that is why the settlement school has been able to continue. We couldn't stay in the past. To be able to continue, it had to change. And as times change, then the school 63:00is willing to change and that's why we're still, that's why the settlement school is still here. Don't you think?

C.M.: Oh yeah.

WARE: But the vision and the purpose is still here, from when it started. And I know I've heard Mike say that a lot, since it started in nineteen oh two, was to provide an educational opportunity for the youth of eastern Kentucky, and it certainly has done that. And I'm glad to be a part of it. END OF INTERVIEW