Oral History Interview with Ruben Roberts

CASSIE MULLINS: I'm just going to get this going, so it's running. Okay, and today's date is, let me look at my watch, July the sixteenth, nineteen ninety-eight. And if you don't care, just state your name and where you live.

RUBEN ROBERTS: Ruben Roberts, I live at one oh four Manitoba Lane in Lexington, Kentucky.

C.M.: And Mr. Roberts, what year did you graduate from the settlement school?

ROBERTS: I graduated in nineteen fifty-three.

C.M.: Nineteen fifty-three. And where did you grow up when you were living in Knott County?

ROBERTS: I grew up primarily in the head of Thickett Hollow on the Big Branch of Ball.

C.M.: Big Branch of Ball. And tell me a little bit about your family.

ROBERTS: Well, 1:00my family, my father is Arthur Roberts. He is the son of Sam Roberts, who's the .... My great-grandfather was William Roberts, who was at one time was a county judge of Knott County. That was in, around nineteen hundred. My mother is, was May Hollyfield. She was born in Pike County and her father was killed in the coal mines and she came to live with her grandparents on Clear Creek. And she eventually stayed at the settlement, before she was married at the age of sixteen.

C.M.: Your mother did, stayed there at the settlement?

ROBERTS: Yes, she stayed at the settlement 2:00when she was in elementary school.

C.M.: Now, did you live on campus, when you were at school there?

ROBERTS: Yes, I lived on the campus, yes.

C.M.: So, how many years did you live there?

ROBERTS: I was there from the beginning, from the second semester, that would have been nineteen and fifty, until my graduation in May of nineteen fifty-three.

C.M.: Okay, so it was just during your high school years.

ROBERTS: During my high school years, that's correct.

C.M.: What buildings did you live in? I guess you might have lived in several when you were there. You just lived in one?

ROBERTS: No, I only, they only had one building that housed boys at that time. And that was the old Eastover building.

C.M.: Okay, so did you have room mates, or how was that set up? How were your living arrangements?

ROBERTS: Well, we had rooms that housed anywhere from 3:00two, to in some cases, six guys.

C.M.: And who was in charge of you all? Did someone live up there with you?

ROBERTS: Yes, we had a house mother, who had her own living quarters in the building. She was our supervisor in the dorm.

C.M.: And what was her name?

ROBERTS: I had two house mothers while I was there. The first one was a Miss Walker. She was a very well educated, a very articulate lady. And my last house mother was Mrs. Fradey, who was the mother of Claude Fradey, who was the principal at the high school.

C.M.: So the 4:00first lady that was your house mother, Miss Walker, you said?

ROBERTS: Yes.

C.M.: What kind of, I guess what was she like? You said she was very articulate and well-educated.

ROBERTS: Well, she was just a very dignified person. She always used the correct English and was pretty formal in all of her approaches to everything. She was just a very knowledgeable lady, in my opinion.

C.M: And your other house mother, Mrs. Fradey. What was she like?

ROBERTS: Well, Mrs. Fradey, she was more the motherly type. She had, of course, raised a family of her own. But she was also, she was well educated and a very fine, very fine lady. And she got along very 5:00well with all the guys at Eastover.

C.M.: So I guess I'm trying to get an idea of what it was like to live on campus at that time. I know I've talked to people, like I told you, from years back. Did you have work responsibilities?

ROBERTS: Oh, yes. We had work responsibilities, I think, if I remember correctly, we had about three hours a day. Well I can give you a general work schedule.

C.M.: Yeah, that would be good.

ROBERTS: We had a, four mornings a week. we got up at about five or five-thirty and went to the dairy barn and milked the cows and brought the milk back to the kitchen. And that group, so many boys were scheduled 6:00each morning to take care of that chore. And then after breakfast we would go to our assigned jobs and work for forty-five minutes before school.

C.M.: Wow.

ROBERTS: Then of course, we'd go to school. And then in the evening, after school, we would report to work. And we were expected to work for an hour and fifteen minutes.

C.M.: After school.

ROBERTS: After school in the evening, in the afternoon, I guess, evening. But that is generally what the work schedule consisted of.

C.M.: So what were some things that you did, besides working in the dairy?

ROBERTS: Well, some of the things, I worked on the grounds, maintenance of the grounds for two years, under the supervision of Mrs. Burns. 7:00And she was quite a taskmaster as far as the grounds were concerned. And of course, we took care of weeding the flower beds and just working on the beautification of the campus.

C.M.: Now Mrs. Burns, what was it like working for her? I've heard a couple of things about her. It seems interesting, I guess normally you would think that maybe they would have a man that would be in charge of keeping up those things. But apparently she was very particular about her flowers and things like that.

ROBERTS: She was, she had a great deal of pride in her flowers and the appearance of the campus. Of course she believed in everybody working the full time that they were supposed to work and staying busy while they were on the job. And she would enforce those ideas. [Laughing] C.M: Yeah. So I guess, 8:00just trying to get an idea of working for her. Was she very strict? Or was she just.. . .l don't know. Maybe tell me, what did you think about her personality? When you think of her.

ROBERTS: Well, she was for the most part, for the most part Mrs. Burns was, she was all business. She was concerned about getting the job done. She was the type person that would smile occasionally and maybe talk about something of a personal nature, but that was the exception rather than the rule. And we always thought that when she did that, it was kind of special, because she did it so infrequently. [Laughter] In our presence anyway.

C.M.: Yeah. Did you have any other jobs or anything besides working maintenance?

ROBERTS: I worked, 9:00of course I worked in the dairy and I think that was my only, that was my work assignments while I was there. And of course, we had people, we had one boy that was assigned to each dorm to assist the house mother of the dorm. You know, they emptied trash and did little chores in each dorm. We had people that worked in the shop, the manual training shop. Some of the boys worked there. And that was about, I think we may have had a couple of boys that worked at the maintenance shop with Luther Bentley. In the maintenance of the buildings and the equipment itself.

C.M.: Well that's pretty neat. I'm 10:00going to pause this just for a second. Okay, I've got it back on now. Now we were talking about your work and the things you did. And you worked at the dairy you said and on maintenance. And I guess, what did you think about having to do that? Was that a big deal to you, having to work while you were in school?

ROBERTS: Well, it wasn't, it wasn't really all that big a deal. In those days it was kind of what was expected I guess. Of course, there were times when I would rather have been doing something else. You know, like, there is one thing I failed to mention on our work schedule too. In addition to the three hours a day that we did during the week, we also were required to work six hours on Saturday.

C.M.: Oh really?

ROBERTS: Right. So you know, that kind of got to you more than anything else. Like on the weekends, you know, we'd work four hours in the morning. Then in the afternoon, when we wanted to go downtown and drink a coke and listen to the jukebox, you know, 11:00we had to work two hours in the afternoon. That kind of, I think that probably bothered me worse than anything else. But I lived through it. [Laughter] C.M.: So did you stay there every weekend? I guess, how often did you go home?

ROBERTS: We had, each semester we had two short weekends and a long weekend that we could go home. Now a short weekend was, you go home on Saturday after work and come back Sunday before the evening meal. On a long weekend, you could go home maybe like on a Friday evening and stay until Sunday. So, we had one of those a semester and two short weekends each semester.

C.M.: So, did you get homesick?

ROBERTS: Well, I don't 12:00remember getting homesick, but there were times when I would rather have been home. [Laughing] C.M.: Right. I'd say so, especially working on Saturday. Now was it just you and your family there? Did you have any brother and sisters that were there while you were there?

ROBERTS: You mean at the school?

C.M.: Uh huh. While you were staying there.

ROBERTS: No. It was just me.

C.M.: Just you. Okay. Yeah, because I know some people that I've talked to had their little brothers or little sisters, that kind of ...they said it made them feel a little bit better about being away from home. Because they had part of their family there. Now, another interesting thing that I found talking to people is eating in the dining room. Which sounds like it wouldn't be a big deal, but a lot of people have told me how you were expected to behave a certain way in the dining room. I guess just tell me about the whole experience of eating together. Did you eat all your meals together, when everybody would get to the dining room?

ROBERTS: Well, the a...

C.M.: It might have been different for you, a little bit different.

ROBERTS: The dining room, it was kind of an experience. 13:00C.M.: That's what I've heard. [Laughing] ROBERTS: First of all, we started out with, we had the two bell system.

C.M.: Okay, what was that?

ROBERTS: To alert everybody for meals. The first bell, you know, they'd give it a good long ring, you know, depending on the energy of the girl that was assigned to ring the bell. And that would alert everybody, that if I remember correctly it was twenty minutes. Ten minutes?

C.M.: Ten minutes, I guess. [Laughing] ROBERTS: Okay. She says ten minutes, she worked there. But anyway that would alert everybody that it was about mealtime. And we'd all get our hair combed and get squared away and get down to near the entrance to the dining hall. Then the second bell was just a couple 14:00of clanks and that's when we would enter the dining hall. And when you entered the dining hall, you would move to your assigned chair at your assigned table and stand behind your chair. And when everybody was in and standing behind their chair and pretty well settled down, then, I guess it was the school director, someone would hit a little bell. Clink. And everybody would sit down. And then of course, you had the blessing. After the blessing then the head of the table, or the faculty member at the table would proceed with serving the food 15:00and in some cases passing the food around to get everybody served. That was basically .... and when you finished you would always ask if you could be excused. That was some of the formalities we went through. And then for the evening meal, we always had a little service at the evening meal. You'd have some Bible reading, maybe a verse or two. And then they would sing a hymn. And after that then you moved out to the various different after evening meal activities.

C.M.: So what was the food like? Do you remember how good it was or something like that?

ROBERTS: I think the food was, the food was good. It was of course, nutritionally correct, for the most part I think, with the exception of perhaps a little fat, that we don't believe a lot in now. 16:00Of course it wasn't always what we would have wanted to eat.

C.M.: Right.

ROBERTS: Of course we'd like it, just as it is now, we would have liked to have had hamburgers and things of that nature. But the food, it just wasn't that type of food. For the most part the food was good. A lot of the students, you know, came from the head of hollows and places like I did and we weren't accustomed to eating that type of food, so it was quite a shock to try to get adapted to eating that type of food. I'll never, I'll never forget the first time I ever tasted meatloaf, was here at the school. I'd never had meatloaf. I thought jeez, 17:00there's got to be something wrong with this, nothing would taste like that.

C.M.: Or look like that probably. [Laughter] ROBERTS: But I was expecting, when I tasted meatloaf, I was expecting something entirely different. And I was kind of shocked. I had to get used to several things like that, because there was a lot of things that I hadn't been exposed to, you know, when I first came to school there.

C.M.: You were talking about at the evening meal, there was always a service or some kind of Bible reading? What kind of emphasis was there on, I guess on maybe Christianity, or the Bible or things? I know that some people have told me, that on Sunday they would have, like Sunday evening there was always something they had together like a service. That was in the early years, so I didn't know if that carried on into the fifties.

ROBERTS: Well the main thing about the religious aspect of the school at the time I was there 18:00was, of course, you were required to go to church on Sunday. And we had, in town we had two churches. We had the Methodist church and the Baptist church. And you had those two choices. You were required to go to one or the other. Of course, a lot of us went to the Methodist church, because we could get by with more at the Methodist church than we could at the Baptist church. Because they were a little more straight laced. [Laughter] C.M.: That's where I go to church.

ROBERTS: The Baptist church was.

C.M.: Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I was just wondering about that, because I didn't know if that was still a rule that they kept applying, that children needed to go to church on Sunday.

ROBERTS: We went to church on Sunday, but I don't remember any specific religious thing that we did on Sunday other than that.

C.M.: Okay, okay. Yeah that's probably just something that had changed then over the years a little bit. 19:00Now another thing I wanted to ask you about was I guess going to town. How you said something about going to town to get a coke. Of course, town is totally different now than it would have been then. Was it like a privilege to go to town? Or was that something that wasn't allowed very often?

ROBERTS: Well, it was a privilege. And if I remember correctly, we could go downtown twice a week after we finished our work. We could go down in the evening after we finished our work, right? [Laughter-Mullins] Twice a week. But I think they held the girls maybe to a little more stricter schedule than they did the boys.

C.M.: Right ROBERTS: We pretty much would go downtown when we wanted to, 20:00but I think they held the girls a little more to that two times a week thing than they did us. If you got downtown and got back and didn't miss anything, than you could pretty much get by with going to town.

C.M.: Another thing that is kind of funny to me, is of course town and the settlement school are right there next to each other. It's like they're kind of one big thing now. But I guess, I know some students have told me that if you lived on campus that's where you were. That's where you were supposed to be. It was kind of separate from the town. Was that still the same when you were there?

ROBERTS: Yes, it was a separate entity. We called the students in town, we called them town boys and town kids. And of course, they would, they could come up and visit the campus, the people that lived in town would. We were a little more restricted in our movements, you know, 21:00in the town. As you indicated, we were kind of expected to be pretty much on campus.

C.M.: Why do you think that was? Why do you think they wanted .. ?

ROBERTS: I think it was more, I think it was more of a control thing. They felt that if they could keep us close they could perhaps influence our conduct more and that type of thing. And the influence on our conduct was always positive. [Laughing] I've got to say that C.M.: Yeah. So would you say overall that, I mean it sounds, I guess it sounds a little bit more strict to me, but not in a bad way. The things that you were expected to do. Like you needed to work and they kept an eye on you. But do you think that you suffered for it? Or what is your opinion of that?

ROBERTS: I don't think that anybody suffered for it. I think it was all positive. 22:00In fact, all of my memories of the school there, the things that happened there are all positive for the most part.

C.M.: Well now, let's talk a little bit about going to school itself. We've talked about your living on campus, which is, like I said very important for us to find out from the different time periods. Now when you went to high school there, maybe who were some teachers or people that stand out in your mind?

ROBERTS: Well, of course one of the people that stands out in my mind, and he was at our last alumni luncheon dinner, was Claude Fradey. He was the principal of the high school from my sophomore through my senior year, Claude Fradey was. He was a very fiery 23:00type of an individual, who didn't put up with any, as the people down there used to say, sass from anybody. He was a disciplinarian. I feel he did a great deal for the school and the students that were there. My first principal, the principal that was there when I started my freshman year, he was from Clear Creek. His name was Litton Singleton. And he was only there for one year and I was a freshman, so I saw him a few times, but I didn't know him very well.

C.M.: Didn't know him? Okay.

ROBERTS: And of course, the basketball coach was a prominent person there, Pearl Combs. He always had a good basketball program. And some of the other teachers 24:00that I remember from the school was, Mrs. Moore, Miss Hall and of course, Pearl Combs' wife, Betty, Betty Combs. All of them were, as far as I was concerned at that time, very positive role models, very business like. Straight-laced, knowledgeable people with the conservative ways that was prominent at that time.

C.M.: Now, the first one you mentioned was Miss Moore?

ROBERTS: Yes.

C.M.: What did she teach?

ROBERTS: She taught English.

C.M.: English, okay.

ROBERTS: And of course, Mrs. Singleton was there, that was Vesper Singleton's wife. She was my typing teacher. She taught typing. She was one of the younger ones at that time. 25:00And of course, we had Claude Taylor. who taught History. And Jody Adams. who taught Science and I think for the last two years I was at the settlement, Jody Adams, was the, we used to call him the Barn Boss.

C.M.: Why was that?

ROBERTS: He was the guy that supervised the Dairy.

C.M.: Oh, okay.

ROBERTS: People used to accuse Jody of going into the classroom with cow manure on his shoes. [Laughter] And another teacher that I remember very well was Lawson Cornett, he lived on Clear Creek. And of course, we had Mr. Carter. 26:00I never had a class under Mr. Carter, but I've heard my wife talk about him. We had Mr. Hyatt. Mr. Hyatt was the manual training teacher or the shop teacher. Now they call it something else.

C.M.: Yeah.

ROBERTS: But we called it manual training in those days.

C.M.: Right. Now that's something that I thought was interesting too. Because we don't really have that anymore, a class, I think, to that extent. What was that class like?

ROBERTS: Well, it was really a class in finished carpentry, is what it was. We learned how to use the carpentry tools, hand tools and the basic fundamentals of doing carpentry work, cabinet making. 27:00It was primarily cabinet making. We didn't get into any construction type thing. But we learned how to square boards and use screws and nails and glue and use all of the things that goes along with building something.

C.M.: So do you think that was a helpful class to have?

ROBERTS: Oh, I think it was great. I think it was great. We learned a lot of things that could be helpful in life. Fixing the door, fixing this, and fixing that.

C.M.: Yeah, that sounds pretty useful to me. [Laughter] I need to take a class like that. Now you talked about some teachers that you remembered. What classes did you enjoy when you were in high school?

ROBERTS: Well. I guess, the classes I just mentioned, the manual training class was one of the ones that I enjoyed. I also enjoyed science, 28:00the general science and biology. I really didn't enjoy chemistry all that much, but it was enlightening. That was the two subjects, probably that I enjoyed the most, was the shop, or manual training and the science courses.

C.M.: Now were you involved in any kinds of activities at school? Like maybe clubs or any kind of organizations?

ROBERTS: Well, we had a, we had what they called a club day at the high school. At certain times, I think it was Tuesday, if I remember correctly at the time I was there. You would meet with your club. We had, the particular club that I joined 29:00and stayed with for quite a while, was the Military Club. And again Mr. Adams was, he was the supervisor of the Military Club. And we had String Music Club. I was in that club for a while. And several other clubs that people, they met once a week for what, an hour or something, I believe. But it was interesting, we learned things.

C.M.: That is pretty neat. So did you, you said something about the basketball team. I think everybody's mentioned something about how there's always a good basketball team, even like in the thirties. They said that, that was, people went to basketball games. So what was that like? Was that still a...?

ROBERTS: Well see, really basketball was the only sport, organized sport that was played at the school at that time. 30:00So that was the biggie on campus. And of course, we played basketball the year round, recreationally. We really didn't play any other game very much. And of course, during the basketball season that was the main thing. And to go to a basketball game, you could get on the ...

END OF TAPE 20 A30, RUBEN ROBERTS, SIDE A BEGINNING OF TAPE 20 A30 , RUBEN ROBERTS, SIDE B ROBERTS: .... Festivals. One of the festivals that we went to which was a one day affair was at the old Stewart Robinson High School, I think it's in Letcher County. We'd go over there and dance a Saturday. And then we would go to the Folk Fest at Berea College and that was 31:00a three or four day affair. Of course a much bigger thing with a collection of students from Tennessee, Kentucky and all over.

C.M.: So did you all like perform at these or was it like a workshop to learn more?

ROBERTS: Well, you know, you had, it was primarily at the festivals you just, you performed. You mingled with students from other schools, and that type of thing, which was a lot of fun. We enjoyed that, seeing different faces, a different perspective on what was going on in school and that type thing. I really enjoyed that aspect, that activity. And I think a lot of other people did too.

C.M.: What were maybe some other things that went on while you were at school, at the settlement, that kind of emphasized your heritage or your culture? Of course, folk dancing does. Was there any other emphasis, I guess, on things that they were trying to do? Like was there any, 32:00let's see, songs or things? Was that important to learn the songs of the area?

ROBERTS: Well, we did, a part of our activities, especially on .... especially on, we used to have what they called a Saturday program on Saturday night. We would go up to the recreation house and we would sing folk songs. And of course, they had these little song books and we learned those songs. And we would sing them at our program on Saturday night. It was kind of an enjoyable thing and we learned the songs. And learned a little about music and trying to sing with a group of people and that type thing. [Laughter] C.M.: Whether you could sing or not, you just got to.

ROBERTS: Well, yeah, you know it was one of those things.

C.M.: I think that would be neat though.

ROBERTS: And our music teacher, 33:00who at that time was Mrs. White. She would play the music for our dancing and of course for our singing. And she was really good. She could flat get with it. That was a big part of our activities there. That's probably the activity that I was, that's one of the activities that I did better in, was the folk dancing aspect of the thing. And we had, we had occasions at the high school where the folk dancing group would maybe do a couple of folk dances for a program at assembly or something of that nature.

C.M.: That's neat.

ROBERTS: Huh?

C.M.: Oh, May Day. Why did you say that?

ROBERTS: We had a, right, we had a large May Day program and a lot of effort went into that on campus, 34:00you know. We had the activity of that on campus and we did folk dances and you know special activities. And we did special dances. Learned special dances for the May Day program. They had .... didn't they have something they called a Maypole or something like that? You get up and dance around it?

C.M.: Yeah, and dance around it. Cause I used .... They did that up until, I don't know. I don't know how old I was, but I remember being .... Did you all have the court, like the May Queen? Did they do that then?

ROBERTS: Did they do that?

C.M.: Because I remember that went on up until. ...

ROBERTS: I wasn't a candidate for the queen. [Laughter] C.M.: You didn't get nominated for that? But you all still did May Day when you were there?

ROBERTS: Right, we did it, yeah.

C.M.: That's neat. Were there any other special programs that went on through the year? Like was there something special at Christmas or anything like that, other than May Day maybe, that you all did?

ROBERTS: I'm trying to think. 35:00Did we have? I don't know about a Christmas program. I can't recall anything. We primarily, I'm sure that they had Christmas activities for the students that were required to be there, you know, over the holidays. Of course, we had to have, everybody couldn't go home, because they had to have enough people there to maintain the work on the campus. So they had certain Christmas activities for those people. But since a lot of people were going to be gone, I don't remember a lot of emphasis being put on Christmas activities.

C.M.: Okay. Let's see. Now after you 36:00graduated from high school, what did you end up doing after you left Hindman? After, I guess after you finished high school.

ROBERTS: Well after .... The first thing I did when I finished high school.. ..At that time at the high school we didn't have, we didn't have counselors and things of that nature, you know, to give us a great deal of guidance as far as a future career was concerned. Our primary concern of course, was to graduate from high school and go to work. So, I think about four days after I graduated from high school, like the old song, "Down Route Twenty-Three," I was on my way to Detroit, to work in .... Went up there to get a job in the automotive plants. I worked up there for about a year and then after 37:00that I joined the Anny. Volunteered for the draft, Frieda Dyer from Hindman got me on my way. I stayed. I made the military a career. I stayed in the military and retired from the military in nineteen seventy-three.

C.M.: Okay. Now let's see. I'm sorry, I like to ask people that, because it's interesting to see what people have gone on and done after they graduated from high school.

ROBERTS: Certainly. Almost everybody that went on to college became teachers. All...

C.M.: I know, that's true.

ROBERTS: All of our classmates, everybody that went to college, practically all of them became teachers of one kind or another.

C.M.: Why do you think that is?

ROBERTS: The, I think the primary reason that all the people became teachers was the fact that 38:00the role models and the people that they respected, the educated people, were their teachers. And that's kind of a goal that they set for themselves. When I graduated from high school there, I really had no idea what a doctor or an accountant or a lawyer, I had no idea what they did. Or how much money they made, or what was involved in getting that type of an education. I think the advising system, if we had one, was very weak, as far as guiding the people after high school.

C.M.: You know this is kind of a, I don't know, kind of a general question, but you've told me all these things about living in the settlement and your experiences, what kind of impact did living there and being a part of that, what kind of impact did that have on your life? 39:00ROBERTS: Well, I think it really had a great impact on my life, because it taught me, it taught me discipline. And it, I learned a lot of the things that I would be required the rest of my life to do in everyday living. It taught me autonomy as far as my everyday living was concerned. In other words it taught me how to take care of myself. And it just had a great. ... One of the, I think probably one of the most important things was it placed me in contact with good, well-meaning, educated people that, and I think a lot of that kind of rubbed off on me. Hopefully some of it did. It was a very positive experience.

C.M.: And of course, you met your wife there. 40:00[Laughing] ROBERTS: Oh yeah, I met my wife there. Of course, I had to run from her for a long time. She finally caught me. [Laughter] C.M.: Well, it looks like you survived.

ROBERTS: Oh yeah, we've done very well for in excess of forty years. So that was positive also.

C.M.: Well, I think that's pretty neat. Now are there any, of course I've just been asking you all these general questions. But are there maybe things that while we've been talking, that you've thought of, maybe an experience or a story of your time in the settlement that you would want to share? Or anything? Because sometimes people feel like they can't tell stories. You know if something pops in their head. One lady started telling me a story of something that her and her friend had done while living there. She's like oh well, I guess I shouldn't say that. And I was like, no that's even better 41:00to hear people's stories of things they did. [Laughter] Because it's usually such a good idea. So I didn't know if there was anything that stood out in your mind.

ROBERTS: Well there's some type, there's a few activities that may be worth mentioning, that the faculty wouldn't talk about. Of course, we all in the dorm, we always had the old short sheeting thing that goes on. And we had pillow fights and ruptured pillows and feathers all over the place and that type of thing. I mentioned in the morning a certain amount of us had to go to the dairy and milk the cattle. And when we came back and started up the front steps into the dorm, on certain occasions there would be a five gallon bucket of water dumped on the roof, which would run down on us as we came up the steps, you know. 42:00And then some of the things that we used to do. Of course, we'd sneak out of the building sometimes and go downtown at night and drink coffee. Of course, if we got caught we were in trouble. But the roof, the porch roof of the old Eastover building was right up next to the mountain, so we could go out a window and just walk out on the roof and jump over, you know.

C.M.: So you all would sneak out.

ROBERTS: So we'd sneak out and go downtown and drink a cup of coffee and that was a big deal to us. And that was just some of the unsanctioned activities. [Laughing] C.M.: Yeah.

ROBERTS: That we were involved in. We didn't do anything, you know, that was mean or damaging to anybody else. We just, kind of a little violation of the rules. 43:00Of course, I guess we got a little satisfaction from that if we didn't get caught. But the things that we did would be very pale in comparison to a lot of the things that young people get involved in now.

C.M.: Oh yeah, you're definitely right. [Laughter] I just think it's neat to find out the differences, what people would do for fun or whatever. What were other things, was there anything that you all did just hanging out with your friends? Things that you did for fun, if you actually had time? Sounds like you were pretty busy.

ROBERTS: We were pretty busy. We had fun. We did things like, we'd go downtown and we'd play pinball machines. They had the, they didn't have the gambling type machines then and all of the high priced electronic stuff. But we'd go down there and play pinball machines and listen to the juke box. And look at the girls, you know. 44:00And talk to the girls and drink cokes, and that type of thing. And that was our major activity while we weren't doing something of an official capacity. [Laughter] C.M.: Well, I guess I've asked you most of the questions I had, but is there anything that maybe I've left out? Or haven't asked you about that you think would be important about the settlement school or your time there? Or anything that you feel would be important to add to this, that I haven't asked you.

ROBERTS: Well let's see I'm trying to think. I think we've pretty much touched on a little on almost everything. As I have mentioned several times, my experience there was a very positive one. I think most everybody that 45:00stayed there and graduated, you know, I think they would probably say the same thing.

C.M.: Okay, let me stop this.

END OF INTERVIEW