Oral History Interview with Charlie Tignor

CASSIE MULLINS: And we’ll just get it started. Let me fix the sound here. And today’s date is July the thirteenth, nineteen ninety-eight and I’m interviewing Charlie Tignor. Just to start off why don’t you tell me about where you grew up, and maybe a little bit about your family.

CHARLIE TIGNOR: I was born right here in an older log house, situated right in front of where this present building is located, at the mouth of Pushback on Troublesome Creek in Knott County, Kentucky. I was born on September thirteenth, nineteen twelve. 1:00There’s eight children in our family and I was the third one from the oldest one. We lived in that house here until about nineteen twenty-nine, when we built this present structure, which has been standing here since that time. This home here was to remain vacant from about approximately nineteen seventy-three, until last fall, when a younger brother of mine, William Tignor, whose wife had died sometime before that, came back. And I joined him here last, myself, my wife having died on May eighth of this year, nineteen ninety-eight. I have joined my brother William 2:00living here, temporarily at least, for the time being. Both of our wives are buried in the family cemetery, located on the family farm here. My Dad was Joe Tignor, who was born and reared right here at the same spot. My mother was Ella Logan, L O G A N, who was a daughter of Charlie Logan and Rebecca Logan. They lived in Knott County at the head of Lip Carr. Just across the mountain from where they grew up, was Trace Fork of Rockhouse, in Letcher County. 3:00Mr grandad on my father’s side, was Pat Tignor, who lived here for many years. Preceding him, was I understand, John Tignor. I never knew my grandfather, Pat Tignor. I understand that he died before I was born. He was shot just about thirty or forty yards from where we are sitting now.

C.M.: Well.

TIGNOR: ( ) by a young man, who he was raising, wasn’t his son, but he was raising him. My granddad, Pat Tignor, was drunk at the time, I understand, and they were fussing about something, what about I don’t know. And the younger man shot and killed him. 4:00I kind of understand he was sent to prison for a few years for that. Don’t know whose fault it really was. I don’t know when my grandmother, Pat Tignor’s wife died. My father, Joe Tignor, died in nineteen seventy-three. My mother, Ella, died here in nineteen seventy. I have an older brother, Carl Tignor, who was born in nineteen seven. He died in nineteen ninety-five and is buried here. My oldest sister, Velda Tignor Cornett died a few years ago, and she is also buried here, as is her husband, Johnny Cornett. I have a younger brother, John D., 5:00who died of a heart attack in nineteen eighty-two. He lacked about two weeks of being sixty years old at the time. The other five members of my family are still living. Do you want their names?

C.M.: Sure if you don’t mind saying them.

TIGNOR: Whatever you want from me.

C.M.: Yeah, that’s fine.

TIGNOR: I’m the oldest one in the Joe Tignor family now living. And I’m now eighty-five. William Tignor was born in nineteen fourteen. Marguerite Tignor Bryan, B R Y A N, 6:00is eighty-one now, I believe. She is living in Kensington, Maryland. Pat Tignor, Patrick Henry Tignor, don’t know his age, but he’s younger than Marguerite Bryan, two or three years.

C.M.: Okay. [Laughing] TIGNOR: He’s living now in Altouras(*), California. And the youngest member of the family still living is Troy Phillip Tignor. He’s living in a suburban area of Atlanta, Georgia. All of my family, I believe all the children in my family, graduated from Hindman High School. Troy Phillip Tignor went in the Navy before he graduated, possibly John D. did too, but I understand 7:00that both of them finally completed. I’m not sure about Troy.

C.M.: So, all of you went to Hindman at some point.

TIGNOR: At some point. We all went through the grade school system there, as well as the high school. Where shall I go from here?

C.M.: Well, let’s talk a little bit about, I guess, you being in school maybe, starting out. One thing we are trying to get a sense of from the people that commuted back and forth, are memories of teachers and friends and things. I guess let’s talk about how did you get to school every day?

TIGNOR: Walked. We all walked to school throughout the grade schools, our grade school careers, as well as, high school. The hard surface road was not built from the Hazard area to Hindman until long about 8:00the late nineteen twenties. And it was completed I guess, by the nineteen thirties, some time before then. I remember when it was built, but not the exact year. Prior to that time, it was just a dirt road, during the wintertime is was awfully muddy. Mud sometimes halfway up to your knees, during wet, sloppy weather. Most of the time we did not walk up the road, we walked around the hills, from the mouth of Pushback on our side of Troublesome Creek clear up to the school.

C.M.: How long did that take you?

TIGNOR: I don’t know. It’s close to, it’s a good mile and a quarter, 9:00maybe close to a mile and a half.

C.M.: Yeah, I’d say it is.

TIGNOR: I think the mile and a quarter is just below the Hick’s hollow up there.

C.M.: Yeah, I think you’re right.

TIGNOR: But going around this way, there was an old swinging bridge, up the old Bob Amburgey place, where the present grade school system is located, that we crossed there lots of times when the creek wasn’t too high. During flood times, certainly during all the flood times, we had to walk continually around this side of the creek, on up beyond, is it Sarah Everret’s(*) Branch? Frogtown?

C.M.: Yeah, Frogtown.

TIGNOR: Sarah Everett’s(*) Branch, beyond that all around the mountain, right into the settlement school property, across the bridge to the school. We took that route during bad weather, when Troublesome Creek 10:00was in flood stage. Actually, most of the time, we would cross Troublesome Creek at a foot log or the swinging bridge located up there at the Bob Amburgey property. And we rarely ever used the highway, either the new road, when it was finally paved or before. Except from the Bob Amburgey place on toward Hindman. Back at that time, the only road we had here, from our house was down Troublesome Creek, right in the creek.

C.M.: Yeah, in the creek.

TIGNOR: Around the bottom on the other side and into the road. At that time, Doc Pratt lived across Troublesome Creek from our place, 11:00and worked a farm located there, which was owned by the Hindman Settlement School.

C.M.: Okay.

TIGNOR: And we would walk up that way. I used to, I know when I was young, every Saturday morning, when I was a teenager, I’d usually take a couple of bushels of corn by muleback up beyond Hindman, Right Fork to Dan Hayes’ water mill. Get it ground up. That’s located, I think, near the mouth of Mill Creek, on the Right Fork by Hindman.

C.M.: Okay, yeah, I know what you are talking about now.

TIGNOR: When I was going to grade school in Hindman, there were 12:00not many people living close by here. The closest family for a few years, while I was very young, Elijah Hicks and his wife, Cindy Hicks, and their family, lived on the Hick’s farm, which is located up Troublesome Creek from the Tignor property. But certainly, after I got in the upper grades, the Hicks family moved to Hindman, and the closest people living to us, up the creek from Hindman was the Bob Amburgey. And then, I’m trying to think of Campbell’s first name, 13:00he was a lawyer in Hindman then, Adam Campbell. Above them was Ship Combs (*), she lived just down the creek from what’s now known as Frogtown. There was no one living in the Frogtown area at that time.

C.M.: Oh, okay.

TIGNOR: No homes up S. Everett’s Branch to my knowledge, and no homes from there on up to the Hindman Settlement School. So, we only had, when I was very young, there was no homes between us, the mouth of Pushback and the Hindman Settlement School on this side of Troublesome Creek. And later on, why Adam Campbell built his home there, and then Ship Combs (*), that was two people. That’s was about the only families living on our side.

C.M.: So, it wasn’t like now, of course, it’s all totally populated through here. So, that was kind of like you lived out in the country, living out here.

TIGNOR: At that time, we didn’t have a road, this route was taken, 14:00except just a little path that we made by walking on it frequently. It was not a regular road of any type. No one worked on it, it was just made by walking over it.

C.M.: Let’s talk a little bit about, your, I guess we’ll start out with your grade school days, since you said you went to Hindman all the way through. Maybe who were some teachers or people that stand out in your mind? We’re trying to, of course those people have been gone for a long time, so we’re trying to get maybe descriptions of people.

TIGNOR: I think Miss Watts was a teacher in the lower grades, maybe in the first and second grade, that most of us remember. Other than that, I do not remember.

C.M.: What do you remember about her? I’ve heard a lot of interesting things about Miss Watts.

TIGNOR: Oh, really not too much. She was a good teacher, we all liked her. I think all of us here, liked Miss Watts. She was friendly, nice to us, 15:00got along with all of us, and well liked as a teacher. We respected her. There were some guys, boys, as we went along through grade school and high school, were somewhat disruptive, and posed a discipline problem for the teachers. But we didn’t have that in the lower grades certainly, and I think most all of us had a very good respect for our teachers and treated them respectfully and liked them. They were most helpful to us. And our parents were very strict about us not missing a day of school.

C.M.: Oh really?

TIGNOR: And they wanted us to get along with the teachers 16:00and liked the teachers. You did what the teachers asked you to do.

C.M.: So, in your home, how important was, like getting an education?

TIGNOR: Number one. Both my Dad and Mom were dead set on us, all of us, going to school. We really had to be sick and down and out before we could stay home and miss a day. When the floods were up and we could hardly cross the creek down here, throw a log or plank or something across it and get across somehow and struggle down this hillside.

C.M.: That’s what I thought was interesting, because I know that at that time maybe, it was more of a privilege maybe to go school for some people. Like I’ve talked, you know through doing these interviews, I’ve talked to some people who said it was their choice to go to school and they might have made it a priority. And then some people had their parents, like you’re talking about, so maybe, I just, I don’t know. I thought that was interesting to find out that it was so important to your family.

TIGNOR: Had it not been for my parents, 17:00I doubt if many of us would have gone to school. But that was something that we had to do. They wanted us to go right on through high school.

C.M.: Well who are maybe....Do you remember some teachers from high school? Any that you had? I’m trying to think. Did you have Miss Cobb?

TIGNOR: Oh yes.

C.M.: What was she like?

TIGNOR: Very friendly, always did her best to help you. I don’t recall her ever trying to discipline anyone, maybe she didn’t have to. It would have taken a rather brazen individual, I think, to say anything mean toward 18:00Miss Cobb. Like Miss Watts, we all liked Miss Cobb. She was a common name here. All of us going through the years, had Miss Cobb, and liked her. I don’t recall any of us ever here, any of us, brothers, or sisters, saying anything of a, anything bad about Miss Cobb. I liked Miss Cobb. I guess she was a very good teacher, I think so.

C.M.: Do you remember, you were talking about how nice she was, and that’s what everybody says. Something about her personality, maybe, is there anything that sticks out in your mind? Maybe like her demeanor or the way she acted?

TIGNOR: Oh friendly, outgoing. She walked in there and started talking, 19:00grinning or, had kind of a pleasant expression on her face most of the time. She wasn’t dour, serious looking. And she tried to create, I think she tried to create maybe a wholesome atmosphere in the schoolroom, cheery disposition.

C.M.: Now did you graduate before Mr. Still came, or did you have him as a teacher?

TIGNOR: I do not know Mr. Still, heard of him. I’ve never met him. Yes, I did. I graduated in nineteen thirty.

C.M.: Okay, so he came in thirty-two, I think. Or he might have been here, but I...

TIGNOR: I was, I think, I think that I graduated in the last class in the old, log building.

C.M.: Oh, okay.

TIGNOR: It was three rooms, one downstairs and two up.

C.M.: That’s in high school, 20:00that place?

TIGNOR: High school.

C.M.: Tell me about that building, because I haven’t gotten to talk to a lot of people that were in that one.

TIGNOR: It was a log house. Pardon me. One big room downstairs and two smaller rooms upstairs. And I went four years there, graduated in nineteen thirty. I believe the following year the new school was built. I remember one teacher we had there, Miss Foote.

C.M.: Okay, yeah tell me about her.

TIGNOR: Oh, all these ladies from New England, all of them were likable. I got along with all of them all the time. Had a lot of respect for all of them. We were taught to respect our teachers, had the utmost respect for them. 21:00These were of course, from a different area than we were from, but they were good to us, and tried to learn us something. I guess that was hard to do. [Laughter - Mullins] Miss Foote, we all liked her, she was a good teacher. She was friendly with a good disposition, I thought. I don’t have any words of criticism against any of them because I don’t know anyone to compare them with. They were nice ladies, who tried to help us, most of them, I think, were from the New England states somewhere. And they were down here, no doubt because they thought they were helping people, helping us. And 22:00I appreciated it. So yes, Miss Watts, Miss Cobb and Miss Foote were all nice individuals, they did a lot for me and my family.

C.M.: Well, as you were saying, a lot of these ladies came from New England and would teach for a few years. And then some of them, of course, like Miss Watts and people like that stayed on for a long time.

TIGNOR: I think Miss Cobb stayed here for many years.

C.M.: Yeah.

TIGNOR: And probably Miss Foote was here for quite a few years, but maybe not as long as the others.

C.M.: Right. So, what was the feeling in the community about these ladies being here? Do you remember, I mean...?

TIGNOR: As far as I know, very good. I don’t recall hearing any of the other older people around here making any comments about them. But here at home, all of us kids, of course, would come home and talk about our teachers. My mother and dad, of course, heard all this talk about all these, whose names I’ve mentioned. 23:00And I think, no doubt, they liked them all. About all they knew about them though, was what we kids would tell them.

C.M.: Did you have Miss Furman any?

TIGNOR: I don’t recall her.

C.M.: Okay. I know that she was a house mother, so she probably did more of that on the campus. She might have been, she might have been a little bit after you.

TIGNOR: I don’t recall the name.

C.M.: Okay, well she probably wasn’t there yet. Maybe what were some, we talked about a couple of your teachers, are there any classes you took, maybe that stood out in your mind in high school? Maybe ones that you particularly enjoyed, subjects or anything like that?

TIGNOR: No, not in particular. I didn’t like, I didn’t like Latin.

C.M.: You didn’t?

TIGNOR: I think Miss Foote taught that. 24:00[Laughter - Mullins] It was hard subject matter for her to do much good with fellows like me. We had a problem once in Manual Training. Jethro Amburgey, who was a native of Knott County was our Manual Training teacher for all the years I attended the school system in Hindman, except for one year. I don’t know why he wasn’t there that year. But they brought someone, another young man in from outside somewhere. I believe his name was Roberts. I’m not sure of that. But we had two or three ruffians in our class. And do you want to mention names?

C.M.: If you want to, I mean if you’re comfortable doing that. [Laughing] TIGNOR: Well, Bordie, 25:00B O R D I E, Amburgey, Bob Amburgey’s youngest son, nicknamed “Peanut”, caused trouble, particularly in Manual Training class with this new man from outside this area as a teacher. And one morning, “Peanut” Amburgey got into a fight with this teacher. They both started using pieces of a porch swing they were making.

C.M.: Oh no.

TIGNOR: Like two by fours, and pieces of wood like that in a fight, got a little bloody, got a little dangerous before it was stopped. The teacher left and nothing much was done to “Peanut” as result of that, as I recall. 26:00Peanut’s dead now. You don’t want this stuff in here.

C.M.: No, I mean that’s fine.

TIGNOR: This is one, when we were in eighth grade, in the other grade school building, not in high school. I’m trying to think of the Professor who was head of the grade school system. You probably know his name.

C.M.: Was it Prof Smith? No.

TIGNOR: Prof Smith? I guess that’s it.

C.M.: Was that who it was?

TIGNOR: Yeah.

C.M.: Okay.

TIGNOR: Carl D. Perkins, former Congressman [Laughing] C.M.: Uh oh, this will be a good one.

TIGNOR: Had a little problem with our teacher. She sent him downstairs to Professor Smith’s office.

C.M.: She sent Carl down there?

TIGNOR: And Carl and Professor Smith fought. 27:00C.M.: Uh oh.

TIGNOR: They fought all over the office and out in the hallway. Many of us went down the stairway on both sides. There was a stairway running up each side of Professor Smith’s office going up to the top floor. And watched them fight down there in the open area in front of his office. Both of them took a pretty good licking. We all hear that Carl D.’s father gave him another one after he got home. A matter of principle.

C.M.: I’d say so. [Laughing] So how did they handle discipline problems like that? I mean, what...?

TIGNOR: Professor Smith handled it by whipping.

C.M.: He did, okay.

TIGNOR: And some guys didn’t want to take it.

C.M.: I’d say not.

TIGNOR: So, they were big enough to, in a way, prevent it. Caused a good fight, anyway. [Laughter - Mullins] 28:00Those are two main instances, that I mentioned, of a disciplinary nature, that took place while I was in school up there.

C.M.: Were there many discipline problems overall though, would you say?

TIGNOR: No overall, not much, I think pretty good. That was about it, certainly the worst. I do not know the circumstances how both of these instances came up. I don’t know what, I think his name was Mr. Roberts, had said or done to “Peanut” Amburgey to cause this. The first thing I knew they were in a fracas there and I wasn’t far away. And swinging at each other with these big pieces of wood.

C.M.: That would be kind of dangerous.

TIGNOR: It was kind of scary.

C.M.: I’d say so.

TIGNOR: No, discipline, 29:00most of us were always nice, got along fine in school.

C.M.: In terms of the education, you that you got, in your years at Hindman, how do you feel about the quality of that?

TIGNOR: Oh, I didn’t leave here with the level of knowledge, I think that others around the country had, probably.

C.M.: Right.

TIGNOR: Particularly in math and sciences. Now, I just wasn’t good. I guess it was my fault. But I found after leaving here and going on that, I caught up, I think, pretty well and made good grades right on through college. I never did specialize in the sciences or mathematics either. 30:00But my interests lay elsewhere. But I think that being the case at that time, even though we may have been a little bit behind others in certain areas, why I think we could quickly catch up if we worked at it.

C.M.: I guess maybe in terms of just this area of Eastern Kentucky, do you think, and I guess there were other schools. Well, there were other schools in Knott County....

END OF TAPE 20 A 27, CHARLIE TIGNOR, SIDE ABEGINNING OF TAPE 20 A 27, CHARLIE TIGNOR, SIDE B TIGNOR: We stayed pretty much here on the farm when we weren’t in school. We didn’t tarry or spend any time in Hindman, 31:00just walked through the street and on to school and back. I likewise, I liked to go and hear some of the trials. I liked to hear the politicians come in and make their speeches. I enjoyed that. The last case I tried before I went into the FBI was a murder case in Harlan County.

C.M.: So, you were pretty much focussed on your school and things like that, when you were in school.

TIGNOR: We didn’t have time for anything else, we were busy here.

C.M.: I’d say so.

TIGNOR: We were told to come on home.

C.M.: Yeah, because you had to work at home.

TIGNOR: We had work to do here. Around the garden or fields, 32:00milking cows, getting things in, getting wood and coal. There was always something to do. And our mother had plenty for us to do all the time. [Laughter - Mullins] C.M.: I bet she did. She had a crew to keep up with.

TIGNOR: We’d come home and immediately were busy.

C.M.: Okay.

TIGNOR: That included, actually I don’t think I stayed for my graduation exercises because we had work to do here. Didn’t go unless we had to, unless it was necessary.

C.M.: Well, I guess I’ve asked you all the questions that I had. Is there anything, maybe that I haven’t asked you about that you think would be important to be part of this oral history? Or just anything you’ve thought of while we’ve been talking?

TIGNOR: No.

C.M.: Okay.

END 33:00OF INTERVIEW