Oral History Interview with Sophia Holliday

CASSIE MULLINS: Let me get this going. And to start out, if you don't care, just state your name and where you live right now. Just go ahead and do that.

SOPHIA HOLLIDAY: I'm Sophia Holliday. I live at one fifty-seven Baker Avenue, Hazard, Kentucky.

C.M.: Okay Sophia, and what years were you at the Settlement school?

HOLLIDAY: I went there in the fall of thirty-one, graduated in nineteen forty. So I was there from nineteen thirty-one to nineteen forty.

C.M.: And now did you live at the settlement school?

HOLLIDAY: I lived at the settlement school. I think I lived in every dormitory, except the boys. 1:00[Laughter] C.M.: Well, that's good.

HOLLIDAY: And that was called Eastover at the time. I worked there. I had work responsibilities at about every dormitory that was on the campus.

C.M.: Did other people in your family go to school up there, too?

HOLLIDAY: Yes, my sister and I went at the same time, Thelma, she's the one who's gone now. She and I went in nineteen thirty-one. And then we had two brothers, Elmer and Orville, that came two years later. Or a year, I guess they came a year later. And then another brother that came two years or three years later. I can't remember just when he came, Ellson, I think you've met Ellson. He came.

C.M.: Uhhmm.

HOLLIDAY: And then I had a step-sister that came and stayed a while. She didn't finish. Ellson 2:00left to go to service and I guess Orville did too. Elmer graduated there.

C.M.: And how did you ....Where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Hazard?

HOLLIDAY: No. I lived at, which one, Ary, Kentucky down on Trellison, near Homeplace. I was a resident of the Homeplace community. I grew up in that community.

C.M.: So, how did you hear about this Hindman Settlement School?

HOLLIDAY: Gee, I don't even remember. My mother died in thirty-one. She died in February. My dad of course, was just at a loss, as to what to do with two little girls. He had two older boys and two girls. And then two younger boys. Mother died in childbirth.

C.M.: Oh gosh.

HOLLIDAY: That was when my brother, Sam, was born. He lives in Lexington, now. I guess Miss Hale, probably was a big influence. Lula Hale? 3:00Either Lula Hale or Eda Kay Smith, I'm not sure. Eda Kay, I think taught at Hindman at that time. They talked to my dad. And when Miss Watts and Miss Stone accepted us, he agreed to take us. We weren't real willing to go, we didn't want to leave home. We went and lived at the Little Girls' House. And I know, you're going to say, how did you feel. [Laughing] C.M.: Yeah.

HOLLIDAY: I'd say, how would you feel if you had been taken away from home, when you were that young?

C.M.: I think it would be hard. Right.

HOLLIDAY: I think we were eight and ten years old at that time. And of course, we hated to see dad leave. I guess we just bawled.

C.M.: I would.

HOLLIDAY: Anyway, we knew if we were told it was the best for us, we knew it was. Because if we had stayed at home, we would have had to walk 4:00to school, to a one-room school, which we had done some. But it was just too cold in the wintertime to do that. We were too small, so. Anyway we both stayed at the Little Girls' House, until we graduated from there into other dormitories.

C.M.: You were saying you had to work. What was some of the work you had to do? When you lived ....

HOLLIDAY: Everybody worked, everybody had responsibilities.

C.M.: Right.

HOLLIDAY: Regardless of how young you were, or how old. And we worked, we started out, at our age, I guess as I remember, we had the responsibility, probably, emptying the trash cans in all the children's room and in the faculty rooms too, in the dormitory. And emptying, I guess helping clean the rooms, emptying ... We had, at that time we didn't have running water. I guess you've heard that before, 5:00haven't you?

C.M.: Yeah.

HOLLIDAY: So we had to empty all the pans and everything, had the slop jars in the rooms to empty the waste water in, and then we had chambers, instead of commodes. So we helped to empty all those things.

C.M.: So everybody worked.

HOLLIDAY: And those rooms had to be cleaned every day. Keep them clean. So we graduated from that into a little bit more, little heavier responsibilities, making beds. We just did whatever we were assigned to do. There usually were older girls, who were in the eighth grade, or maybe in high school. If they were high school, 6:00they were the, what we called, the Head Girl and then two or three girls under her, and then the little girls on down. There'd be sometimes five and six in a dormitory to get all the work done, because you were limited on the time, you know, before school started in the morning. And in the afternoon.

C.M.: So you did your work before school? Most of the time?

HOLLIDAY: And after school.

C.M.: After school. Well you said you lived in every dorm except the boys. How many would that have been?

HOLLIDAY: Well, I lived in the Little Girls' House, I lived in the Orchard House, which is the May Stone Building now. Hillside was, girls lived there. We lived there. We lived, I lived at the cabin and did the work at the cabin for Miss Gum, when she was 7:00the lady that lived there. And that's when they used to have the craft, one room set up for the baskets and all the crafts and everything. And I was responsible for helping arrange that and keep it clean for visitors when they came in.

C.M.: What did you think about having to work every day? Or was that....

HOLLIDAY: It was just part of living and we were supervised in doing that. It taught us, I think. I appreciate it to this clay. It was really good training for all of us. [Laughing] We even worked the school buildings. My sister worked, I don't think I ever had the responsibility of working at the schoolhouse. But the Grade School building was one that my sister worked at and she loved it, because .... Oh, Florine Whitaker, I think was one of the head girls there and she just loved her. She was a good supervisor. And she enjoyed that. And we worked almost all the school buildings.

C.M.: Now, I guess as far as ....

HOLLIDAY: Of course, the boys worked 8:00too, but they worked, you know, on the grounds.

C.M.: Right.

HOLLIDAY: They kept the grounds .... worked under the supervision of Mrs. Burns. And they worked at the barn and worked at the dairy. They had a dairy at that time, so they had all that responsibility.

C.M.: One thing I thought was interesting, talking to people that lived there, was your dining situation. What was that like? I know that you all ate meals together.

HOLLIDAY: We sure did.

C.M.: Maybe tell me about that. What was it like to eat together?

HOLLIDAY: That was a real experience, a real good experience. Faculty ate with the students at all the meals. And they had assigned tables. There was a faculty member at the head of the table and at the foot of the table. We had several big, long tables. And the children were assigned to different tables. We rotated, so that we had 9:00the experience of eating with different faculty. And there was always a blessing before the meals. And sometimes a little song, I don't remember now what we called it, but anyway. [Laughing] C.M.: Just like a song for the blessing?

HOLLIDAY: Sometimes song for the blessing, or a blessing, and then, or a little song and then the blessing. But it was usually a little something like that. And in the evening, I think, I remember there was always someone who, every table had the responsibility of reading some passage from the Bible. And then the prayer.

C.M.: What do you think, what do you think about that now, looking back on that now? I guess the influence ...

HOLLIDAY: Oh yeah, I appreciate that, I think that was a real influence on about 10:00everybody, I'd say two thirds. Of course, there were some probably now would say they didn't, you know, approve of it. But I thought it was a very good thing. And then we had, on Sunday evening, we usually had, what we called it a Vesper service, something like that. With a... hmm, I can't remember how, whether we had, not potluck, I guess we had...sack meal.

C.M.: Yeah, somebody else had told me that.

HOLLIDAY: A light meal. And that was, that saved on dish washing. We had the responsibility of washing dishes, you know. And I'll never forget that.

C.M.: What was it like, doing dishes for that many people? How did you all manage that?

HOLLIDAY: Well Miss Elkins, you've heard about Miss Elkins, I think. Elizabeth Elkins?

C.M.: I don't know what her first name was.

HOLLIDAY: Elizabeth Elkins, I think was her name. And she was in charge 11:00of the dining room. She was in charge of the cooking, the serving of the meals, washing the dishes, keeping everything clean. She was in charge of all that. She really had a job. And of course, she had to be pretty strict. And she was. She was real strict. But those dishes when, and whoever, there was a dish washing crew for each meal, while the other work crews went, you know, to various dormitories doing their work. But, if you were on the dish washing crew, boy you had to be there. And you had to wash the dishes the way that you were told to wash them. And when you finished, Miss Elkins usually went around these big dish pans. They were huge dish pans, that you washed dishes in, rinsed them in, 12:00scalded them and everything. Put them up to dry. She would go around and with her finger, and clean those pans. She'd check them to see if there was any grease left at all. If there was, you'd go back and do it over.

C.M: Well.

HOLLIDAY: So that was really close supervision, too. So everything was handed to her. We couldn't sit down to a table without everything being immaculate.

C.M.: What about the campus in general? Was it pretty, I mean...

HOLLIDAY: Oh yeah. The whole campus?

C.M.: Uhhmm.

HOLLIDAY: Yes. Everything had to stay neat all the time, even the grounds. If there was a weed or anything growing up, Miss Burns would see that it got cut right away.

C.M.: And do you think that kind of had an influence on you all too? Cause I know ...

HOLLIDAY: Sure.

C.M.: Like Mr. Still told me, when he first came there, that if you went down through town or out in the community, you saw how they had nice flowers and a very clean porch and yard, 13:00they'd say there's somebody that goes to Hindman Settlement School, or their kids must go to Hindman Settlement School.

HOLLIDAY: That's true, yeah. You'd notice that, out in the country especially, when you go out. When we'd go for walks. On Sunday afternoon we'd have, we could go for walks with supervision. Somebody, some faculty member, one or two would find out who'd like to go to Combs Branch, or go to Ogden or wherever. And we'd go for a walk on Sunday afternoon. But they were supervising us. And what you just said about James Still, when we'd look, see somebody's yard or, you know. Well, they got some training. [Laughing] But that training really has paid off. I really appreciated it. I wouldn't have, wouldn't have .... Sometimes my family used to call me, Miss Elkins. They'd say alright, Miss Elkins. [Laughing] I'd be a fanatic about something being clean, you know. So, she really was strict on us. And one job that I don't know if any 14:00of the girls have mentioned it. Ruby might have mentioned it to you, or somebody, if she worked in the kitchen. There were certain girls that were in charge of beaten biscuits. Now I never did have that responsibility. But you've heard of beaten biscuits?

C.M.: Yeah, everybody's mentioned them, that they tasted really good.

HOLLIDAY: They were just about as big as a silver dollar. But there were certain ones that had the responsibility of making beaten biscuits. And she taught them how to make those.

C.M.: And so you didn't learn that?

HOLLIDAY: Oh I liked them. I liked the biscuits yeah, but I never did work in that position. No, I was usually, if I worked there, it was usually drying the dishes or stacking them. Or she'd have certain ones she'd want to do things. And she'd usually give me one of the jobs setting mats on the table. Every table had to be set just perfect before anybody came in the door. 15:00C.M.: Isn't that something? You don't see that.

HOLLIDAY: And they rang the bell. When the bell rang, you better be on the porch, ready to come in the door. And if we were late coming down for meals, sometimes, you know, you'd just get looked at, maybe, don't do it again. But maybe the head of the table would hold her finger up and you'd know that she noticed you late. Even though we would try to slip in. No, that was a real good experience. One of the things that stands out in my mind when I first went, that I never will forget. As I said, I was ten, my sister was eight and we slept in double bunk beds. There was like eight girls, six or eight girls in a room. So the house mother 16:00always, you know, when we got ready for bed, the house mother in charge would come in and tell us good night. She'd have us say our prayers before we went to bed and then she'd say, "now good night, lights are out. No more talking." We weren't allowed to talk or laugh or anything after. Of course, you know how little girls are, we're bound to giggle sometimes. [Laughing] And if we did, here she'd come. She'd hear us. And she'd say, I said it was quiet. And she'd try to find out who it was that was making the noise. But Thelma was going to sleep on the, she slept on the lower bunk, because the house mother said she might roll out off the top, which was a good idea. I could have rolled out of the top too, me ten years old. But, we waited until the lights were out and everything was quiet 17:00and I could hear Thelma down on the lower bunk. She'd go sniff, sniff, sniff. She was sobbing, she was so homesick. She was a daddy['s] girl. [Phone Rings] C.M.: Okay, you were talking about your sister crying.

HOLLIDAY: Oh yes, when I'd hear her sobbing, I'd get up and move down in the bed with her and sleep with her, till she went to sleep. Sometimes I'd go to sleep too, and just hope that Mrs. Knott didn't come in and find us in the bed together. Because we would have got a punishment if she had, because you weren't allowed to sleep together. But I never will forget that, because she was so homesick. She was a daddy girl. She'd cry for daddy nearly every night. And then we both got adjusted. And of course, I guess you heard we only got to go home during certain weekends, like Thanksgiving 18:00weekend and eureka (??) weekends, or something like that. And then we had to be sure somebody was going to take our place working, if there were assignments, you know, to be done.

C.M.: About how many times do you think you went home a semester?

HOLLIDAY: About twice, and then at Christmas time, most of the time we usually got to go home Christmas.

C.M.: I guess that would be awful rough.

HOLLIDAY: We had an uncle that lived over on Ball at Vest. And that was a horseback ride from Hindman to Vest, then, no car. Occasionally on a Saturday, if it was convenient for him, he might send a horse for us and take us over. And we'd get to spend the night and go back the next day. But that would just be occasionally, not a regular visit or anything. But that was a real treat, you know, to get away. It was a good break.

C.M.: Did you all go to town much?

HOLLIDAY: Yeah, but we had to have permission. Always had to have permission to go to town, because they had to know where we were at all times. 19:00And usually told how long to be gone. What do you have to go for? And well, you be back in thirty minutes or whatever. So, we weren't town oriented. [Laughing] We were more oriented to the campus and our responsibilities there.

C.M.: I just think that's interesting that they had, you had this school that you're running and all these children living there. I can't imagine the responsibility that like Miss Watts and people had. Looking back on it now, do you, would you say it was a good idea that it was that strict and that structured?

HOLLIDAY: Oh yeah, yeah. Because each dormitory had a house mother who was in charge. And she knew where all the children were going to be, supposed to be, all the time. If they were out of school, then she wanted to know 20:00where they were. They were either on work assignment or whatever. Wouldn't be out of reach of knowing where they were, in case something happened. And I lived where the guest house is now, the hospital. That's where I lived. I lived in that building one year, besides all the time some of the patients. And working there. I worked there too.

C.M.: Did you ever have ....

HOLLIDAY: See that was the infirmary. Excuse me.

C.M.: Right.

HOLLIDAY: Infirmary. And we worked in that, had to keep that immaculate clean.

C.M.: What was the infirmary like, did you all? I've heard the story of the tonsils. Somebody was telling me how there'd just be this big round up and everybody would get their tonsils taken out. [Laughter] Did you have to do that? 21:00HOLLIDAY: Doctor Brown came from Hazard. They'd have a time set, when he could come over there and have a clinic, and screen everybody at the same time that had to have their tonsils out. I had mine out. And that was an experience I won't forget.

C.M.: Yeah.

HOLLIDAY: Because I won't remember, I can't remember the details. But I do remember that I hemorrhaged and they had to keep me in the infirmary there for a while. It seems like Doctor Brown had to come back and do a stitch or two in my throat. I don't remember. Anyway, I gave them a scare.

C.M.: I'd say so.

HOLLIDAY: The beds were, there was somebody in the infirmary nearly all the time. There was what, maybe you've been told, I can't remember now exactly the number of wards or rooms they had. And how many beds 22:00in the rooms. It seems like there was two rooms on the right next to the infirmary where they had cots or beds, you know, for patients. And then if there was an overflow they went across the hall into another room. Sometimes that was full.

C.M.: What kind of medical care do you think was available for you all?

HOLLIDAY: We had a registered nurse there at all times. She was, if you had to have any kind of medication. For instance, Thelma and I, both were undernourished, I guess, when we went there. We were real thin. And we took, we were two of several that had 23:00to have cod liver oil regular every day for a while. And we'd have to go up there and the nurse would give us the cod liver oil. And we'd better stand right there and she'd fill a tablespoonful of cod liver oil and put it in your mouth.

C.M.: And make sure you swallowed it.

HOLLIDAY: Yeah. Miss Ziegenthaler (Siegenthaler??) was the first nurse that was there when we went. Now Miss Todd, I think, was there before that. I don't remember her. I've seen pictures of Miss Todd. Miss Ziegenthaler was from Switzerland, I guess.

C.M.: Yeah, I think somebody else mentioned her.

HOLLIDAY: My sister didn't, she didn't appeal to her at all. And she told her she had to take this cod liver oil. And it wasn't flavored cod liver oil. I mean it was just plain old cod liver oil, you know, fishy. And she put a tablespoonful of that cod liver oil in her mouth one time 24:00and she said, "Now swallow it." And Thelma [makes spitting noise] [Laughter] she let it go all... She didn't swallow it.

C.M.: I'd say not.

HOLLIDAY: But you know, you would have thought she would have slapped her and said now here, you're going to take another one. But she didn't do that. It made her mad. She was angry.

C.M.: I'd say so.

HOLLIDAY: But we had good medical care. And if we needed a doctor of course, Doctor Killian and Doctor Duke, were the two doctors there. And then Rose Kraft was a nurse, too, if they needed additional help. I guess she came, I can't remember that she did. But yeah, we had good medical service and taken care of at all times. If we had a temperature, we had to go in the hospital and stayed in until that temperature was gone.

C.M.: I guess that was pretty dangerous though then, if you got a high fever.

HOLLIDAY: Yeah, Miss Watts and Miss Stone were seeing that everybody was taken care of. 25:00C.M.: Well, tell me about, kind of what Miss Watts was like? I'm sure you were around her a lot.

HOLLIDAY: Oh, Miss Watts was, she was demanding. And when she assigned you something to do, you knew to do it. Which I appreciate to this day. She was a real firm person. Now Miss Stone, we didn't know that much about her, because we didn't have day to day relations with her. We'd see her occasionally. I took her meals to her a lot. She lived at Hillside, of course. She ate very few meals in the dining room. And I remember carrying her meals. And any of the faculty that lived there, 26:00that couldn't come to the dining room, we'd always .... Miss Elkins would always pack a basket for them. She had these lunch baskets that she packed their lunches in, and certain girls that did that. She always packed the lunches for those that were .... And same way with the teachers on duty. We had, when school was in session, we had to take lunches to the teachers who were on duty during lunch hour. And that was another responsibility that some of the girls had.

C.M.: Sounds like you all stayed busy.

HOLLIDAY: Pardon?

C.M.: I said, sounds like you all stayed busy.

HOLLIDAY: Busy all the time. There wasn't much time to be idle.

C.M.: Well, we've talked about living on campus, now I want to talk a little bit now, about the school part. About being a student there. I guess I've just been asking people about their teachers and classes. I think the best thing, just what stands out 27:00in your mind about your school years there, maybe a class or something?

HOLLIDAY: Well, we were .... we had gone .... the thing that I remember, I guess more than anything is ... We had gone to a one-room school, in the country, out in Ary. And we went back one grade, because we wanted to be sure that we were progressing as we should. And when you're in a room where there's eight grades, down to Miss Watts. So I started in the fourth grade. Vera Manzart was my teacher. And Thelma in the third grade, I guess, so she was one year behind me. We were in the old Grade School building, and fourth grade was on the second floor. And then I guess, the first grades were down on the lower floors. I think they were. They let, 28:00when you had recess, or when the classes were dismissed, then they went out a lower door on the lower floor, and they weren't run over by the older children up above. And we were on the second floor, fourth grade. We would progress from one room to the next. Miss Kezel was fifth grade teacher, I believe. And then we went on up to eighth grade which was on the top floor. And usually there was one, who was what we'd call Principal now, of the Grade school. Mr. Potter, I guess several have mentioned Mr. Potter. He was a strict one. 29:00And if there was any, the mean boys [Laughing] like some of the town boys. What we called the town boys, the ones from out in town, who were mischievous. And they usually just, they were just mischievous, some of them as they could be. Because they used to just love to pester the settlement children.

C.M.: Oh really?

HOLLIDAY: Yeah.

C.M.: What would they do?

HOLLIDAY: Anything. They just, you know, anything to, like with your long hair. They'd pull your hair. Or slip up behind you and do something, just to aggravate you. But if they were mischievous in school, and were sent to Mr. Potter. Why at that time, they went down to his office. And we could hear a paddle. And I mean they paddled back then, too.

C.M.: Okay, let me turn this over, real quick END OF TAPE 20 A22, SOPHIA HOLLIDAY, SIDE A BEGINNING OFTAPE 20 A22, SOPHIA HOLLIDAY, SIDE B C.M.: Okay, you were talking about 30:00people getting punished.

HOLLIDAY: Yeah. Well, Doctor, I mean Mr. Potter was a good hand to punish. He was a real good one. Usually he and an assistant worked on the top floor, seventh and eighth grade. I can't remember, there was a Dyer, Vinnie Dyer, I believe he was one of them, at one time. And maybe Devon Pratt. They worked in the top level with the seventh and eighth graders, at that time, when I was in grade school. And then when we went on to high school. That was over there where the old high school building is, and at that time we just thought that was a beautiful building. It really was.

C.M.: Did you?

HOLLIDAY: Oh yeah. The rooms were all so nice all the way around. 31:00The principal's office was right on the right, as you went through the iron gates. And then around to the right was the library and the Home Ee room, and that took in the right hand side of that wing. And then the other classes all around the building. But the inside, where the green, where the grass and so on was, that was always so nice. They kept that real pretty. And sometimes outside, they'd take classes outside, you know and have meetings out in that open spot. And the library was especially. We liked that. That was where they had study hall a lot. And around the walls was all the graduation pictures from the first graduation, when 32:00I left there. There was a line all the way around. The whole frames, just like they are now, the whole frames. It was an interesting place to go to and see the graduates and all that had been there before.

C.M.: What were a couple of your favorite classes that you had? I guess talking about high school years, or maybe just ones that stick out in your mind, that you enjoyed especially.

HOLLIDAY: I liked English class. And there were several, one I didn't like was Algebra. I never did do any good in Algebra. Pearl Combs was the Algebra teacher and he was more o fa coach than he was a teacher.[Laughter] So I just never did get my Algebra. I liked Home Ee, we had some 33:00wonderful Home Ee teachers. And that was where we got some real good training.

C.M.: Yeah, how important do you think that was?

HOLLIDAY: Was in Home Economics. Pardon?

C.M.: How important do you think that was? Because a lot of people talked about that.

HOLLIDAY: Very important, very important. And when the hospital building was Practice Home, we had, we were assigned there. And if we lived there, we cooked our own meals and made our own menus and everything, under the supervision of the Home Ee teacher who lived there. And then she taught Home Economics to the classes. And then we had to serve the Alumni Banquet. And when we served, it was, I mean you had to serve just so-so. You were trained to carry the trays in a certain way, somebody else takes the plates and you had to serve from the left 34:00of each person at the table. And serve one thing at a time. And the tables had to be set. You learned how to set the tables just so-so. All that had to be done just so-so. Depended on whether you got an A or a B or whatever you got in that class, as how you performed for the different functions. But it was good practice. And the Practice Home that was real good for anybody, especially if they were getting married after high school or whatever, they were ready to set up their own housekeeping practically.

C.M.: So, I guess it sounds like to me, you learned, when you were in school you didn't learn just things you get out of a book. You learned a lot of other things.

HOLLIDAY: That's right, practical living experiences of all kinds. 35:00And how to say, "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am" and thank you and that sort of thing. And men were always, the boys were always, you never saw a settlement boy, but what he shook hands with you. Or he never sat with a hat on either. When they went in the dining room, they left their hats or caps outside. They never were allowed to go inside with a cap on. And if they met a lady, with a cap or a hat on, they always tipped their hat to them. Because these women that came in from up east, they were real ladies, and they expected all the students to be gentlemen and ladies when they left there, or at least they tried to see that they were. [Laughing] C.M.: What did you think about that, having those ladies come in?

HOLLIDAY: I think it was good, I think it was real good. We looked up to them. And I still do. When I think about it, how much I appreciate them. They were real, I don't know what would have happened to us, had we not gone there. Because 36:00we really got training we never would have gotten anywhere else. And I don't think we would have ever gotten it at home. Because my dad married, while we were going to school, but he married after a couple of years. And we understood, you know, that. .... And the faculty and Miss Watts and Miss Stone would tell us, you know, how to respect our step-mother, and how much she meant to our dad, and for us not to get sad. And we didn't.

C.M.: So they took an interest in ....

HOLLIDAY: In each family, yeah. And they knew all the families usually, knew the circumstances at home and so on. Yeah, they were, they were quite interested, I think, in anyone who lived in the settlement. And if they were not willing to perform 37:00or live according to the rules and regulations, then they could expect to go home.

C.M.: So did they ....

HOLLIDAY: They sent a lot of them home.

C.M.: I'd say they probably had to.

HOLLIDAY: They had to, because they just couldn't tolerate some of the things, you know, that some of them .... Too bad we don't have places like that today to take care of some people. I mean, there's so much right now, you know, going on.

C.M.: What are, who are some other teachers maybe, we've talked about Miss Watts and Miss Stone. Who are maybe some people that stand out in your mind, maybe not even teachers, but people that you came in contact with?

HOLLIDAY: Miss Cobb. Ann Cobb, I'm sure you've heard a lot of people, everybody just loved Ann Cobb. Oh, I could just name a lot of them. And of course, Pearl Combs' wife, 38:00she was one of the best English teachers that had been there. Eda Kay Smith, she was a real good teacher, she was....I had History under her. And they were all, most all of them were very firm with the students, they had to perform. Mamie Hadley was the Home Ee teacher for several years. When I was at the Practice Home, Miss Hadley was Home Ee. She was very, very good. I have pictures of a lot of those. I guess you all have all those pictures of the settlement, unless they got burned up, of everybody.

C.M.: I don't know, we'll probably have to go back and call people 39:00and ask to borrow pictures. I'm not sure.

HOLLIDAY: I'm sure you have one of Miss Cobb.

C.M.: Oh, yeah.

HOLLIDAY: I have her book, autographed and her picture, one or two pictures in it. But house mothers, Little Girls' house mother, we had Miss Nash, Miss Knott. They were both well liked. Miss Tudor, she was at Hillside. She was house mother there, when I was a girl, living at Hillside. The boys could tell you who all was...Miss Jones, there was a Miss Jones at Eastover, the boy's house mother. And a Miss Pratt, Miss Pratt was the only one that I knew on campus that owned a dog.

C.M.: Well, what kind of dog did she have? 40:00HOLLIDAY: She had a Dalmatian, I think.

C.M.: The ones with the black and white?

HOLLIDAY: Black and white, yeah, a big Dalmatian. And he, I guess the only time, when she'd walk over to the meals, she'd usually leave him on the porch. But she'd usually lead him over and leave him on the porch. That was when he got exercise, I guess more than any time. Except during the day, maybe while the students were in the school, she'd get out and walk him some. But she was crazy about her dog. And she's the one who influenced, what was her name, the girl who went from, she wasn't in the settlement, I don't think. I could be wrong. She could have been in the settlement, but she lived over on Carr. But Miss Pratt was the one that influenced her to go up to New York. She was a model. Have you heard about her? What was her name? And she came back. 41:00Let me see if I can tell you, if you ever interview Shirley Noble, she's in Louisville now, but she should be back here some time this summer. She was a good friend of hers and she's got a sister that was there at the Alumni last year, that lives over on Carr. She can tell you who she married. She married some star or somebody.

C.M.: So she was influenced by this teacher?

HOLLIDAY: Miss Pratt influenced her into going to New York. Because she was a pretty girl, very attractive. So she went up and made a model. Trying to think, Mr. Still lived there at Eastover, 42:00when I worked there. And I told him not too long ago, I don't know whether he remembers or not. But I told him, I don't know how many times you got clean socks, because I kept your socks washed for you. [Laughter] We had rooms, we cleaned the boys' rooms and the faculty's rooms, so we cleaned Mr. Still's room. Tried to keep it clean for him. And if he left his dirty socks a laying somewhere. I'd always wash his socks and have them clean for him. I don't know whether he remembers that or not.

C.M.: What do you remember about Mr. Still from back then? What was he like?

HOLLIDAY: I had typing under him. I enjoyed that. That's the only typing training that I had was under Mr. Still. He was, he came there about the same time that we did.

C.M.: Right.

HOLLIDAY: So, 43:00we just felt like he was one of the family. In fact, we were all, just one big family when we were in the dining room, maybe a few faculty members that we'd shun a little bit, because we, you know, weren't too crazy about them. We respected, or at least our family did. Mrs. Burns was the one that some of the boys had a little trouble with, because she was so firm with them. And she really was strict on them, on the grounds and on the dairy and she had to be. Have you interviewed Walter Prather? He was there in school. He lives here in town.

C.M.: I've probably got his name on my list.

HOLLIDAY: Yeah, Walter Prather, David Begley, he was there, can't think of somebody else. They worked under Mrs. Burns, so they can give you information about Mrs. Burns. How the grounds, the settlement grounds all had to be kept, as well as, the barn and so on. 44:00Can't think of anything else.

C.M.: I was just going to say ....there's probably I'm sure. There's no way I could ask you every question about being there. Is there maybe something, a time or people that stick out in your head that I haven't asked you about, from your years at the settlement? Or maybe just certain memories that you have, that I might not have referred to, that you want to share with me?

HOLLIDAY: Well I might mention some names and then other people can give you more information on them.

C.M.: That would be fine.

HOLLIDAY: Frances Grover, have you mentioned Frances? She was Principal for a while. I believe she was Principal, 45:00when I went back to teach. After I graduated, then I went to, or do you want to know that?

C.M.: Yeah, did you teach at the settlement school? Yeah, tell me about that.

HOLLIDAY: I went to Brasstown, John C. Campbell Folk School after I graduated. That was influence from Miss Watts to do that. And of course, I had been at Homeplace. I worked there some during the summer. I guess when I was going to high school I worked at Homeplace some during the summer, because they had gardens and farmhands down there. And I cooked there at the log house. Helped cooking for the meals for the work hands there at Homeplace. And had that experience there, as well as, on the farm at home. And then after I graduated, Miss Watts influenced 46:00Sophie Smith, who was a cousin of mine and me to go to Brasstown. So we were there. Sophie stayed a year. I stayed over a year. I stayed on and worked in the weaving department. And we had training in wood carving and weaving and folk dancing, you know, all that. That was a real good experience there. And then when I finished, well I stayed on for about, I was there for about a year and a half. I was going on the second year, when I came home. I hadn't been home very long until, at Lees College, the Phys Ed Director was drafted to go to war. And like all the other schools, they were running short of help, when these men were having to leave. 47:00And he came and interviewed me and asked me if I'd go to Lees College and work as Phys Ed Director in his place and go to school at the same time. So, I accepted that and that's what I did. I was on the junior faculty there for two years. And there were three other girls on the junior faculty. We were called the junior faculty because the others were all gone. So I finished up at Lees and when I finished at Lees, I hadn't been home very long until, I guess Miss Watts got in contact with me and wanted me to come to Hindman and teach weaving and recreation. So I went there and was Recreation Director for two years. And taught folk dancing and weaving. We had weaving in that 48:00building where the Kindergarten was, downstairs was the weaving room there. So, I taught the high school girls.

C.M.: So they still were taught, like weaving and folk dancing and things about this area were still taught.

HOLLIDAY: At the settlement.

C.M.: As well as the regular things.

HOLLIDAY: Yes.

C.M.: Was that really taught anyplace else in the county? At any of the other schools that you know of?

HOLLIDAY: Not that I was aware of I went out to the rural schools and taught playground games and so on and worked with them. And I did that with Junior Red Cross in the summer, in the summer months. But then I went back to Brasstown for Folk School two or three times after that, 49:00and to Berea. We have always gone to Berea for the Folk Festivals. I was there two years and my dad ran for Sheriff and I came home to work for him. Four years he was in office, and I was one of the deputies[Whispered], so I was working there. And that got me interested in social work. That was a real experience in social work, working there. I left that. I went to UK and started in a social work class there.

C.M.: It sounds like to me that education has always been important to you, like your continuing education.

HOLLIDAY: Yeah, my dad was interested in, once we got started, he was interested in all the children getting an education. And wanted to see us through. And I was trying to fulfill his wishes 50:00and my own. I was, that was something that Miss Watts was always pushing for too.

C.M.: I guess my final question is what has the settlement school meant to you? Obviously it means a lot to you. But just kind of looking back now on the opportunities and things you've gotten to do.

HOLLIDAY: I'm sure there's goals that I've had in mind, that I didn't exactly get to complete. But I always had a goal of finishing college, which I did. I finally, I worked almost twenty years after I had the third year at the university. And then 51:00when funds would run out of a program, it was defunded, then it was just cut off, you didn't get to continue or retirement or anything. Then I went back to school, I finished, didn't get my degree until seventy-two. I was an old lady when I finished my high school, but that was my goal. [Laughter] I mean college, but that was my goal to finish, which I did. I don't think I'd ever have been pushing for a degree if it hadn't been for the settlement. Because that's where we got our start. I was determined that I was going to do it. If there hadn't been the settlements like that, I don't know what would have happened to us. Because without a mother at the time, and dad was so upset when mother died. 52:00I can remember seeing him standing, leaning against the paling fence, that went around our yard at that time. You know what a paling fence is? I can remember seeing dad leaning over that and just crying his heart out. And as little as I was, I was trying to think, you know, why he so upset. And I always thought after that, he felt like he caused that, because she died in childbirth. And I always, I don't know it just seems like I always had .... when my sister had her first child, I was just worried to death. Had a fear of her having that baby, afraid she was going to die, you know. And she was the only whole sister I had at the time. But anyway, I just have gone from one thing to the other, until...But 53:00as I said, I don't think I would have been successful in anything. I felt like I've been a success in social work. That's what I majored in, and I loved it. I guess because I was, from the very beginning, these women that came, regardless of where they came from, and there'd be new ones different times, they always accepted us as we were and tried to help us. And that's what I learned from the time I was a child. So I just continued, always happy about helping other people. Kind of my aim, my goal. [Laughing] C.M.: Sounds like you've done it.

HOLLIDAY: Well I tried until I was diagnosed with cancer. That shot me down. I felt like I was, nobody knows what it's like, until they get that word 54:00thrown at them. And then ...then I was determined I was going after so long a time, I was determined I was going to, I just tried to think positive about it. I was going to overcome it.

C.M.: Yeah, okay END OF INTERVIEW