Oral History Interview with Helen Earp

CASSIE MULLINS: Okay, now if you don't care, just state your name.

HELEN EARP: My name is Helen Elizabeth Stuart Earp.

C.M.: That's a long name. [Laughing] EARP: Including both unmarried and married.

C.M.: And Mrs. Earp, where did you grow up? Tell me a little bit about yourself.

EARP: I grew up in a little county seat, town, where we had a big courthouse with pillars, like here, in Illinois, located right on the banks of the Mississippi river, by the name of Oquawka. And that is an Indian word meaning "yellow banks", because right in that particular area, along the Mississippi 1:00River, the river banks are sort of a yellow sandy soil, so we had a regular beach out north of town like you would find along an ocean, you know, because of the banks. And Black Hawk was one of the big chiefs, Indians, that sort of, I don't know whether you would say reigned or ruled, over that area in Illinois in olden days. And he named Oquawka for the yellow banks. That was their Indian word for it.

C.M.: So how long did you live around there?

EARP: I lived there until after I was out of high school, and then I went to college. From then on I wasn't back there.

C.M.: Where did you go to college at?

EARP: Western Illinois State Teachers College and in back in those days, you could graduate from what they called a 2:00two year certificate. And you could teach or supervise any grade school. To do high school work, you had to take the four year course. So, of course I took two years. And I got a job in the Northern section of Illinois, teaching. And I kept that job for two years and then I got married. But of course we continued, Mr. Earp also was from western Illinois, a county or two south. And he went to what was called Carthage College, Illinois and he worked his way all the way through. And so he had to teach and then go and then teach some more and then go, you know. And so we were, and then he got jobs in western Illinois 3:00and then he became a principal. And he was good at that, because he got along so well, especially with high school boys. And then we did that for a long time.

C.M.: So now let's talk about, how in the world did you end up in Hindman, Kentucky, [Laughter -Earp] I guess that's a story, isn't it?

EARP: Yeah, and so many people have asked me that, there seem to be no relation. My husband developed a heart condition and he had to, the doctor told him, he must get out of that part of Illinois in the winter, because it was always too cold. And he said that was a strain on a person's heart to carry a heavy overcoat and wear boots, you know. And he said he would be much better if he'd get out in winter. So, we got us a little travel trailer. In those days, they weren't mobile homes, 4:00you know, they were just little. You could put them on the back of a Ford and pull them easy. And ours had two rooms with a bedroom and a little kitchenette sort of, with a davenport. Made you think you had a living room. And we went to Florida for the winter. Well, one winter, we always came back to our town in Illinois. And we visited with some old friends of ours that we'd had for years. And while we were there, Mr. McClain, you've heard of him?

C.M.: Yeah, he was the director here.

EARP: He was the director here. He was traveling and visiting, and this lady, that we, our good friend there, was his aunt. And so he stopped for a few days with her. And while he was there, the two of them, both of them had been school men, you know. So, they got together and they got to talking. 5:00And Mr. McClain said, "why don't you come down and visit us." He says, "it's in the mountains." Well of course, we had avoided, with our travel trailer, always going around the mountains to get down to Florida. We didn't come through here. He said, "I'll tell you how to come and you come down and pay us a visit." So that's what we did. He had us go across Illinois into Ohio and down that important road that goes from Ohio to Florida. I don't know the number of it now. It was one of the main highways. And that way we just gradually came up into the mountains without realizing it. And when we got here, we had to drive our car through Troublesome Creek and we didn't pull our trailer through the water there. What we did was go down to the second opening, where you can 6:00get across the creek without going through it. And stayed for a few days, and we got to liking it better and better and better. And we found the people very interesting and very friendly. The whole business down here, we liked. Well, after a while we went on to Florida, to go, we had plans to spend the whole winter. But after the winter was over, we came back through again and we made the decision to come and stay. [Laughing] And so there we moved in the next year. That's how it 7:00came to be. We were invited down by the director. We had never heard of it, you know. And now, let's see Mr. Earp was here for at least ten years before he passed on. And then he did part of the bookkeeping. And when he passed away, the director said, "now we don't want you to leave. We will teach you the bookkeeping." And math happened to be one of my easy things, so that wasn't hard. Especially bookkeeping isn't too bad. I wouldn't have wanted to go into some of the advanced courses, but that was easy. So, then I did and stayed.

C.M.: That's right. You'll still here.

EARP: Till twelve years ago, and I'm still coming. I can't break away.

C.M.: So when you first, when you and your husband first got here, what kind of work did he do? Or what kind of work did both of you all do when you got here?

EARP: When we first came, his 8:00assistant director, Mr. McClain's assistant, was a man that was really hunting for other jobs and he was leaving really. And it happened that Paul had been a high school director, so he knew how to discipline children. Mr. McClain didn't take any time at all and he hired him. And you see, a lot of the workers that came in the beginning, they got their board and their room and just a small stipend. Well, that's all we needed, you know, at that time. And so he helped mostly in the managing of the children, and did the bookkeeping.

C.M.: So he did both jobs at that time.

EARP: He did both jobs to start with. 9:00And then I didn't have one, but as it happened, right at that time, they had what they called a Christian Education Director. [Laughing] C.M.: Well.

EARP: That sounds kind of high flown. But what it was, she was a lady that lived here and she took care of the children on Saturdays and Sundays. Because it () in those days. They didn't have regular bussing. They came in the first of September and they stayed until Thanksgiving or even until Christmas. And we had to have a program that took care of them. They gave the boys work. The boys did all the yard work and the weeding. And the girls did the dishes and the cleaning, you know. And then besides their work program, they had to learn something. So the boys had a little cabin down here, where they taught woodworking. And the girls learned the weaving, so that they 10:00were learning as well as working and it helped everybody. So that was the program when we first came. And they asked me if I just wouldn't take care of that, what it was mostly was Sundays. I don't think I remember doing anything much with them on Saturdays. But if we planned a picnic up the hill or did anything, it was up to me to go with them. And I had always had Christian endeavor[s] on Sunday nights for them. They could go to any church they wanted to, but as a group we had that here, regularly on Sunday night. That's how I got that title.

C.M.: Yeah, so what did you all do on those Sunday nights? What were things that you all did together, that 11:00you organized?

EARP: Well, I don't think that I took them off the campus. That of course, Mr. McClain did. He taught them music and he had a group always that learned the folk dancing and did it well, and went and put on programs for other people, when he was trying to get people to know about the place. So he did the traveling with the kids. I didn't do any of that. And we, otherwise there wasn't a whole lot during the week, because they were in school all the time. And then Monday, Wednesday, Wednesday I'll say, this, the freshmen would come and we'd have a music class, teaching them folk songs. And then on Thursday night the seniors would come in and he would teach them for about an hour, like usual for a class. Then on Friday nights, 12:00all of them had a party. They'd come to the party and they sang a lot and danced with who they wanted to and when they wanted to. It wasn't planned like the other nights. So, those evening activities together with homework kept them busy.

C.M.: I'd say so. I'm going to move your microphone up just a tiny bit, make sure I get to all your voice. Oh, it's fine. So, then on those Sunday nights, did you call it Christian Endeavor, is what you did?

EARP: I asked them, I asked them. For the life of me, I can't think now what they called themselves. But I said, shortly after I got here, would you like to be called Christian Endeavor? In the churches that's 13:00what they called it mostly, in the Protestant churches. No, they didn't want that, they'd just leave it like it was. [Laughing] But I call it that when I tell you what I did, because it gives you a better picture.

C.M.: Yeah. And what were things that you all did during that? On those nights?

EARP: Well, there was always a worshipful part, and we sang hymns and read scriptures. And then well, I think we did a little bit of visiting. It wasn't like a party really. It was more like a little service that you would go to. I don't know whether they still call them that. The Methodist church here, 14:00what do they call that group that meets on Sunday night?

C.M.: Like a youth group?

EARP: Uh huh.

C.M.: Yeah, they just call it youth group.

EARP: You just call it youth group? Well, I guess that's probably what we called it too. But anyway, they didn't want to be Christian Endeavor, maybe that sounded like work. [Laughing] C.M.: Yeah, too formal.

EARP: And they were good. They never gave me any trouble. Of course, they had Mr. Earp standing over them. He was the disciplinarian.

C.M.: Now, what year was that, when you all first came here? Or about what year?

EARP: I would say it was about nineteen forty-five.

C.M. : When you first came here? Nineteen forty-five? Okay.

EARP: And Mr. Earp passed away in nineteen fifty-nine. And I stayed on until just twelve years ago.

C.M.: Right.

EARP: I've been gone now for twelve years.

C.M.: So let's talk a little 15:00about those ...

EARP: About those years?

C.M.: Yeah, those years when you all were here and working. Because this is getting us a different perspective, you know. I've talked to a lot of people that were students here. But you and your husband were so important, because you worked here and helped keep the place going. I guess maybe what are some of your memories or things that you remember about the campus being here, things that stick out in mind, maybe?

EARP: Well, there's been many, many changes.

C.M.: Right.

EARP: When we first came, the public grade school was down there, where the library building is. Not the library, yes it's the library on the back side. And I think it was three stories high and it was an old looking structure. 16:00And I can remember the rows of the children coming out of there. And we, of course you see, we came down here in a car, remember a trailer?

C.M.: Oh, that's right.

EARP: Well, we had a big barn down there. It's where the ball diamond is now. And upstairs, I think the boys made, they did some woodworking up there. And down below was a space where we could pull our trailer in, under shelter. And so we parked that, when we first came there. And it happened that Mr. McClain had an assistant director that was leaving, right at that particular time. [Laughing] Seems kind of like it was planned, but it wasn't. We just, he, this young man wanted to go someplace else, that 17:00was more of an important job than just helping Mr. McClain here. And so this little place was occupied by the McClains. And that was Raymond's .... Are you acquainted with the McClain family?

C.M.: Uh-huh.

EARP: That was little Raymond's room, you see. And Ruth was in a high chair. [Laughing] I can remember Ruth tapping on her little plate when she was sitting in the dining room. Because they put her in a high chair. And Alice wasn't here yet, nor the little boy, when we first came. It was just the two children. So the assistant director lived in this .... Mr. McClain made it possible 18:00with Miss Watts. You know who Miss Watts was, that was here for many, many years?

C.M.: Right.

EARP: Well she had her quarters up in Hillside. Do you remember Hillside at all?

C.M.: No, no.

EARP: Well it was a big three story building, up over where her grave is now. I tried, I sat in front on the porch over there the other day and tried to picture just where that was. It doesn't look like there could have been a building like that there.

C.M.: I know, it doesn't at all.

EARP: And upstairs were the director and his family, had nice quarters. And down on the lower level was where they had the offices. Well then what happened to that was one night they had a fire on New Year's Eve.

C.M.: Were you here then?

EARP: No, we had gone back down to Florida for the Christmas holiday.

C.M.: Oh, okay.

EARP: We weren't here when it happened. But we lived here, we had just gone down for a short time. So they couldn't--they 19:00had to do something different. And they moved the family down into the personnel office. And they lived there for a while. And they never rebuilt Hillside after that. But that was a very important building. I think that's probably where, Miss Watts spent most of her life there. Underneath they had the offices in the first floor, always their director was up above. So that building is now gone. Then the grade school building, I told you it was over here. They, and I can remember the children coming out. After the county got hold of a public education arrangement, they built a nice grade school 20:00down where it is, and they've enlarged that since. I expect since you've been here.

C.M.: Yeah.

EARP: Well that was changed. That was a grade school. Let's see, then we also had what we called the Fireside Industries. And it was a little building across the playing field, where they did all the weaving. And usually the looms were down on the first floor and then there was a big hall like place up above. And they would have Saturday sales for clothing. Not every Saturday, but maybe once a month. People would send clothing in here all the time. See, in those days, the churches were all interested in getting people in the mountains helped. And they would send second hand, good used clothing. Mr. Earp used to have go down to those clothing sales. So, now that building's gone. Now, let's see, what else? 21:00The main building was called Fireside, it seems to me like. I'm going to call it the May Stone Building, maybe that's what they did call it. That also was a three story building. And the lower floor, the front part of it was a lounge or a living room. And in back of it was the dining room, where everybody came to eat. And the kitchen was in the basement. And the girls used to run up and down those stairs bringing the hot food. I can see them yet. And we sat at long tables, just like, well, they're not quite as long 22:00nowadays. They're a little shorter. And the girls would help with the serving of the meals and doing the dishes, but that was down in the basement. Then the top floor was all dormitory. So then that was called the May Stone. Then there was a dormitory up here, and that was called Eastover. And that was a boys dorm. And where they got the "over" is, the road made a circle, came in like we do, and it made a circle around like that with grass in between here. And as it came around, this was the east side, so they called that east over the circle, is what it's supposed to be.

C.M.: Oh, okay.

EARP: And the main building was here. So this was Eastover for all the boys. And then there was the hospital. You know 23:00which is the hospital? Still is.

C.M.: The Stuckey Building.

EARP: Uh huh. And then there was Westover, and that was the girls dorm. And of course, Westover's been gone quite a little while now. So that was four dorms ... .I was thinking about the hospital. I don't think there was any students stayed at the hospital at that time, unless they weren't well. And if they weren't, why then they went up there. And we had a trained nurse, that lived all the time with us. And she took on anything, anybody that was sick. Took them up to the hospital. We always called that building the hospital. Or if any of the staff needed special attention, they might have had her up there. But she reigned supreme in the hospital building. She was a great girl. Let's see if I can tell you any other ones that have disappeared. Well, the main building itself, 24:00at that time. You know where the round flower bed is?

C.M.: Uh huh.

EARP: That was the well, where they pumped the water for the building. And it was built sort of over it. It was over the back part. And I described that to you, there was this three floors.

C.M.: Right.

EARP: So that's gone. That main building, we were here, when they built that. And the paneling in our present, there's a special name for that type of paneling, were all boards taken out of the old building.

C.M.: Oh, really?

EARP: Uh huh. So that's part oft he old building. They kept that, made a pretty side 25:00 there.

C.M.: That's kind of neat.

EARP: And of course, Westover was tom down, when they built the Human Services Center. And we didn't have the pool, of course.

C.M.: So I guess the campus looked quite different back then, didn't it?

EARP: So now you can see, it is almost like it is all new.

C.M.: Yeah.

EARP: Well no, the oldest building is the office. And when they had that fire up there. Where the big Hillside building was, the McClain family had to move down into the office building. And we had, those of us that had to do office work, had to be moved down to the little cabin.

C.M.: So you worked down there in that cabin.

EARP: I worked down there for a long time. But I started up in that, in the higher one, 26:00until they had to move the McClain family down.

C.M.: So what sort of things were lost in that fire? I mean, since that's where the office was. I guess there were records and things in there?

EARP: Well, that was up in the Hillside building.

C.M.: Yeah.

EARP: I expect they did lose, I don't remember. I couldn't tell you what all that they lost. But they have a lot oft he writings of the older people that they still use. Otherwise, I don't know what happened to the office, excepting that the secretary was where Lois is now. I was on the east end and the secretary was on the west end. She had her office 27:00there. I had my office here. And then in that front part was a guest room.

C.M.: Oh.

EARP: People could come and stay and sleep up in the loft, they called it. They had a nice little bedroom up there. In fact, the fellow that comes here all the time, yet, every once in a while, especially during Folk Week. And lives out in that direction.

C.M.: I'm trying to think.

EARP: Uh huh. He's gray haired and that's where he used to live, in there. And he lived in there, when he was supposed to be writing a history of the school. I don't remember how long he lived there, 28:00but he never did write it. [Laughter] C.M.: He must have liked it there.

EARP: Oh dear, he, oh honey, he's always here during Folk Week. And then sometimes he comes in between. Sorry.

C.M.: Oh that's alright, that's okay.

EARP: I'll have to. It will come to me tomorrow, and I'll tell you.

C.M.: Okay, well that's fine. That's just fine.

EARP: I know that was his little cabin, where he slept up in there for so long, when he was supposed to be writing the history. I'm not sure now. Is it still available for somebody to sleep?

C.M.: No.

EARP: Well, they had a little bathroom on the first floor, and that made it possible. And he lives that way, out in town, out in the hill out there.

C.M.: Well, we'll think of it.

EARP: Yeah, and he'd be a good one for you to interview.

C.M.: Yeah, I should go and talk to him.

EARP: He'd know more about it than I would, and maybe remember it better.

C.M.: Well, I think you are doing a good job, Mrs. Earp. I think this 29:00is all, just interesting stuff to hear about. Because you were here during a different time and the campus and the people were so much different then. Let's talk a little bit about that maybe. Like your duties after your husband passed away. And of course you said he was the assistant director, for about how many years was that? He was assistant director for--.

EARP: Ten.

C.M.: Ten years. And then when he passed away, you took over the job as bookkeeper.

EARP: They came to me and they said, "now we don't want you to leave. And if you'll stay, we'll teach you the bookkeeping."

C.M.: So what was that like?

EARP: It happened that math was one of my easy subjects, so that was fine. So long as it wasn't geometry. [Laughter] And so I did that, like Rebecca does now. And then when Rebecca came, at that time 30:00I was thinking, I think, about going to California to be close to my sister, retiring. She came at the right time for her and Michael. And they lived over in the pool house, you know. So, she took over my job. So I had to teach her the bookkeeping here.

C.M.: What was it like being the bookkeeper? Was that a pretty busy job for you to do?

EARP: No, because it wasn't extensive enough that I needed to spend the whole day. I was always there in the mornings and then I could do housekeeping or whatever I needed to do here.

C.M.: Hmm. That's kind of neat.

EARP: And this little place has lasted very well. 31:00It was in the first place, there's no foundation under it, you know. It's hill side. You go down, they had to board in that part down there. And then you can walk down there. Have you ever been in down there?

C.M.: No.

EARP: And you can have things stored down there.

END OF TAPE 20 A 21 , HELEN EARP, SIDE A BEGINNING OF TAPE 20 A 21, HELEN EARP, SIDE B C.M.: Let's talk a little bit, you've been here for, I guess, three directors now. Is that right?

EARP: We came under Mr. McClain, and then came Lionel Duff and then 32:00 ...

C.M.: My Dad.

EARP: Then your dad.

C.M.: Okay, well let's talk about maybe changes just in, that you've seen from when you first came here, under Mr. McClain, until the present. Things, the changes in the, not necessarily maybe buildings, but also the way that the school has been run, programs and things, maybe differences that you've seen.

EARP: Well, they started the Folk Week back in, I think McClain, maybe that was Lionel Duffs day. But it was here quite a while before your dad came, the Folk Week arrangement. And every, tell me if I repeat.

C.M.: Okay, that's fine.

EARP: And the program that we had for the children back in those days, through the year, they carried on that 33:00musical business and they called it the preserving of their heritage. Do you remember that sign that was out there? I don't think it is there anymore. It said, Hindman Settlement School erected that the children might retain their heritage ...

C.M.: Oh, that's right, be more mindful of their heritage, yeah.

EARP: That's what it was, be more mindful of their heritage. And I think their heritage here, was largely English. Because the little folk song books we had were all folk songs more from England, maybe some from Scotland, Ireland, among the English people at least. Instead of, there were a lot people came over to the United States from Italy that went into the mines. But this area in here, was nearly all English, just like 34:00they are now. They're a great people, I think. You want to see one of those little books or not?

C.M.: Yeah, I want to see one in just a minute. After we finish this up, I'd like to look at some of that stuff, that would be neat.

EARP: Show you how they were mindful of their heritage. [ Laughing] My parents were Germans from Germany and Scot, Irish, Scotch, Scots from Scotland, so I'm a combination of heritage, so that was easy for me to do.

C.M.: Well what were some other changes maybe that, I'm sorry did I interrupt you?

EARP: A lot of the furniture that we have here yet, was made here.

C.M.: Oh really?

EARP: Yeah, see that desk, that, the chair of course they still make, don't they? During Folk Week?

C.M.: Oh yeah, they make them during Folk Week. 35:00EARP: Well they had, they called it the chair factory and that was one of the things the boys did, when they lived here. And then that desk is made here. This serviette was one of our first pieces of furniture when we were married in nineteen thirty. [Laughing] And of course, I've put a little summer apron on it. That's not the right word. And that one, see that was made here, that ( ) and the little footstool with the handwoven cloth on it, those were made here. The little rocking chair was made here. 36:00C.M. : Gosh you do have a lot of stuff that was made here.

EARP: The lamp table there, was ours. This big dresser in here, was made here. I'm not so sure whether that one in there was, and the dinette set is cherry and we brought that, but the cabinet with the glass doors was made here.

C.M.: So, they really knew ...

EARP: They did a lot of furniture making, not factory style, but craft shop stuff.

C.M.: Tell me about the weaving, how much of that was done?

EARP: Well the girls, that was one of the things they taught the girls. And that building was over there, the one that had a big top room, where we could have the clothing sale. 37:00And I think right now, I think the only thing they plant over there is a little garden.

C.M.: Yeah, it is, it is.

EARP: Yeah, see all you have left is the chimneys, standing there by themselves. So, that building was used for the handwork. And of course, along with the ladies in the community, nearly all women in those days, in addition to their homework, keeping house, cooking and so on, spent their days making things, you know. Crocheting, or knitting or embroidering and decorating their homes. Nowadays no women hardly ever do any of those things.

C.M.: I know.

EARP: But they go to craft places to buy them. [Laughing] Oh my. I tell you what, I've seen a lot of change. 38:00And some of it hasn't been for the better, I don't think. They're having troubles with getting adjusted in many ways, I think yet.

C.M.: Maybe what have been some of the ....

EARP: Hmmm?

C.M.: Maybe what have been some of the changes that you haven't really liked over the years, you know, here?

EARP: Here? Well, I don't know if they are mostly here. From the things that I hear, are the school system. [Laughing] Having been a school teacher, I hear the criticisms that come out in the papers. And I have read someplace where so many of the kids can't read, when they get up to a certain grade. Well, that was unknown when I was teaching. That's all they spent their time doing. They had a recess, and they played hard over the recess and then 39:00they did Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. [Laughing] And they learned those things, and they got better all the time with them. But now, the only thing I can think of is they've got so the physical ed program has taken up a big lot of the time. And I don't know how much time they watch T.V. That I don't know. I've been out of the schools long enough that I've not known any of that. At any rate they do things, where they don't actually learn like they did before. Their time's occupied, but they don't seem to come out with having the skills they need.

C.M. : Well what do you think that, how do you think, oh gosh I can't even talk today. How good do you think the education was for the students that were here, when you were here in the early years? 40:00EARP: Well, I thought, very good. And because it seemed there wasn't any difference from in here, than it was where I was, excepting that the children had to be brought in. Because I lived in a county seat town where the schools were full of students from the same locality. And here they had to even live in a different spot. They came here to live to be taught.

C.M.: Well, here's something I was thinking of, just jumping around a little bit. When we were talking about the crafts before? Were you around much basket making and things?

EARP: No.

C.M.: Did they do that much around here? Or mostly just weaving?

EARP: It was more, I think, the one that took the most 41:00time and was the most profitable for everybody was the weaving. Because they used to weave quilts. And I know they made quilts, they weren't all woven. But I have, my bed spreads that I have out there in California were woven here. They were wonderful bed spreads. They never will wear out, I don't think. [Laughing] And I took them out there with me.

C.M.: Well, Mrs. Earp you said earlier, that after your husband passed away you just stayed here, until twelve years ago. And now you commute back and forth and spend the summers with us. What made you want to stay in this place so much?

EARP: Why did I like it?

C.M.: Yeah.

EARP: Well, for one thing of course, this is sort of an in between area between real cold and real hot. I can remember it being twenty below zero here, but for never more than three days 42:00and maybe once a winter. And then the snow would melt and it would get warmer. So it's kind of a halfway place for winter. You have some winter, but just not like Illinois. I can remember twenty below zero on May Day there. It wasn't that cold all the time, but I do remember that. The people is what draws me more than anything else. They're cordial, they're friendly and they're honest 43:00and everybody isn't trying to do the other fellow out of by getting you know, making as much money as they can. The little Methodist church down there is full of just real honest, good working people, kind, friendly and I enjoy them so much. Now there was, what happened, I think, to a lot of the people, I blame on the United Mine Workers. [Laughing] There were these early coal barons they called them. They could get farm laborers cheap, and they kept them cheap. And they even had their own little stores. They had to buy everything at their own little stores at their price. And they made 44:00money off of them that way. And so that the population in quite a few places didn't advance moneywise, like they would do in other communities. That was too bad. Then when the mine workers finally decided that they would revolt and protest, then they quit working. That's the way they do, they had a strike. And if they strike, they wouldn't do anything. And of course, that broke the back or whatever it was that kept them down. They had to raise salaries. So, they had to do that. But it went on beyond that stage, where they made, the workers got independent, not independent, dependent upon the 45:00... .I don't know whether it was the tax system, I shouldn't try to explain this completely. But anyway they got to feeling that they didn't have to work and they would be supported, see. I remember one year when, one of the first years or two that we were here. And there was a great big boy that lived out here in the country, big strong fellow. And my husband was talking with him one day and he said, what do you plan to do now when you get your high school done? Oh, he says, my folks got some land out there and I'll have my own little cabin and I'll just live there. 46:00And he said, well what will you do for food? Oh, he says, I'll get my commodities.

C.M.: Well.

EARP: He wasn't planning to do anything. He was going to live off the government. And that's where they got the reputation. Now that was a personal thing that happened to us, so we know that's what happened with some of the families. They lost their initiative. They just felt that they couldn't do anything, or they didn't want, you never knew which it was. They couldn't do anything worthwhile, so they just sat and expected the government to give them the commodities, give them food. And I know on check day, when the government checks would come in, the place would be full of cars downtown. Is it that way yet?

C.M.: Uh hmm.

EARP: Still that way?

C.M.: Yeah.

EARP: And they go downtown and spend the money that the government's given them to live on. And that's too bad, because the initiative and the feeling that they're worthwhile has been taken away from them. 47:00So that's how that's worked out. We witnessed that, the first year we were here, they took a census. They do it every ten years, you know. The census people would tell Paul how some of the people were just living off the government and they didn't have any other plans, and didn't intend to.

C.M.: Isn't that something.

EARP: But that's not every place in the United States. It just worked out that way, I think, because of the mine situation. And how it is just now, I don't know, excepting I think, there's people still dissatisfied with too many people just living off of other people. And they don't really need to. 48:00END OF INTERVIEW