Oral History Interview with Ursula Davidson

URSULA DAVIDSON: Key in life. Let's see he had three words, wait just a minute.

Walter scares me to death when he backs up.

CASSIE MULLINS: He got pretty close there, didn't he? [laughing] DAVIDSON: We think, my sister and I think he does. Let me think about that a minute. I didn't think I'd ever forget that, that's the first time my memory's ever failed me on what he said.

C.M.: What we'll do is. 1:00DAVIDSON: I think it was Strike Each Key In Life A Sharp Strong Decisive Blow. Isn't that good?

C.M.: That is good. Mr. Still said that?

DAVIDSON: Uh huh.

C.M.: Now what I've done is I've just gone ahead and turned this on, so that we'll get it going.

DAVIDSON: Okay.

C.M.: And if you don't care, just state your name and, your name and your age, so we'll have it on here. If you don't care.

DAVIDSON: [Laughing] Now you know I'm going to care.

C.M.: Just so we'll have it on here.

DAVIDSON: Well my name is Ursula March Davidson and I'm seventy-eight.

C.M.: And then I'll just say today's date. It's May the twenty -seventh, so we'll have it all on here. Because what we're going to do with these tapes is--the book won't be finished probably until, at least, it will probably 2:00be two thousand and two, you know like that, eventually.

DAVIDSON: Are you doing the book?

C.M.: No, I'm not doing the book. I'm doing the oral history part of it. But Dr. Jess Stoddard from San Diego. Her uncle is Al Stewart. Her mother graduated from the settlement school too. She has a real strong connection. She's going to do the book and I'm just kind of doing things for her, during the summer, to work on it. So what we'll do is we'll just talk about a few things and if you get tired or don't feel like talking, well then you just tell me and we'll stop. It's up to you.

DAVIDSON: Okay.

C.M.: Okay, we'll just get started. I'll find my questions in here. If I don't get organized, I won't ever get anything done. Now first of all, did you live at the settlement school? Or did you live at home?

DAVIDSON: No, I've never lived at the settlement school. My mother wanted me to when I wanted, when I was ready to go to high school. We didn't have a road then. And I 3:00couldn't walk. I couldn't walk to the bus that came to carry and she tried to get me into the settlement, but they didn't take me in.

C.M.: So you lived at home? Okay. How did you first learn about the settlement school?

DAVIDSON: Through my mother. She spent some time, I've forgotten how long, but she spent some time at the settlement school. And also my sister, Mildred Davidson Crayton. And I suppose I had other relatives, I did, aunts that knew about the school.

C.M.: So how many people in your family went to school there actually? You went...

DAVIDSON: You mean that stayed at the settlement?

C.M.: Yeah, or just went to school there, maybe you could start with the ones that stayed there.

DAVIDSON: My sister, Mildred, stayed at the settlement from sixth grade I think until she graduated. And then 4:00other members of my family, two brothers, well actually three brothers, although he died before he finished high school, went to the Hindman High School. And then I have another sister, younger than I am, that went to school there and graduated.

C.M.: So a lot of your family--.

DAVIDSON: All of us have graduated from the Hindman High School.

C.M.: Well, that's something.

DAVIDSON: Except the brother that died when he was nineteen.

C.M.: When you were there . . . we'll just kind of talk about things. What kind of classes did you take? I guess we'll talk about high school, like what were the classes you remember, maybe. I'm sure you took the regular things.

DAVIDSON: The regular things, English 5:00of course, History, Home Economics, Math of different kinds.

C.M.: What were your favorite classes? Maybe the ones that you really enjoyed when you were in high school.

DAVIDSON: Well, I pretty much enjoyed all of them, except math. I've never been good in math.

C.M.: Me neither. [Laughter] DAVIDSON: I got a bad grade in Geometry one time and Prof Smith, we always called him. I can't think of his name right now, was the teacher. And I cried and I cried right in front of him over my grade in Geometry. But I loved English and I loved Home Economics and History fairly well. Those are the main ones I remember.

C.M.: What sort of things did you all do in Home Economics?

DAVIDSON: We 6:00had to learn to sew and cook. We made real garments. In fact I made my graduation dress. We didn't use robes then.

C.M.: You made your own?

DAVIDSON: I made my own dress. We had to have a white dress. So, I made that. And then we actually cooked. We learned to cook different things and at least once we had to serve the teachers a meal. And that was always fun.

C.M.: So, was this both girls and boys?

DAVIDSON: No, just girls. No, boys took manual training.

C.M.: So none of them took Home Economics.

DAVIDSON: No, not when I went to school.

C.M.: Let's 7:00see. Who were just some of your teachers, maybe. I'm sure you had lots of different ones here. Maybe some of your favorite ones that stand out in your mind.

DAVIDSON: Well, Claire Standish was a favorite, of course. She taught English and she taught Chemistry too. I had Chemistry under her. Mrs. Pearl Combs or Betty as we usually called her, Betty Combs. A Mr. Harnly from Florida, I remember. Pearl Combs was the Math teacher, in most of the classes I had. Prof Smith was the principal. Let's see, there are others I'm sure I should remember. But right at this moment their names won't come to me. 8:00[Laughter] C.M.: I probably couldn't remember most of the teachers I've had either What did you like about, let's see, you talked about Betty Combs. What stands out in your mind about her, Mrs. Combs?

DAVIDSON: Well she was just such an excellent teacher. She was very tough, but she was very good at explaining things. You could understand what she said. I don't know, just her personality was outstanding. And I think I was a freshman the year that she came to Hindman. She came from Ohio, I believe. I believe she came from Oberlin College. Anyway, she and Pearl Combs fell 9:00in love right away. [Laughter]. Did you ever know Pearl Combs? Or know about him? You wouldn't have known him, he's been--.

C.M.: No. I mean I've heard about him, but I don't know a lot about him.

DAVIDSON: Well he was a brother to Beckham, that was the superintendent for so long.

C.M.: Yeah, I knew Beckham real well.

DAVIDSON: And he was the coach. We won the tournament, I think the year that, one of the years that I was in high school. I've forgotten exactly what year it was.

C.M.: The State Tournament?

DAVIDSON: Yeah. Do you have a record of when they won the State Tournament?

C.M.: Yeah, we have that. What year did you graduate?

DAVIDSON: I graduated in forty. I'm trying to remember if they won the State Tournament or if they were runner up. I'm not sure. 10:00C.M.: Yeah, we have that down somewhere. I can't remember either for sure. So in your classes, would you say that over all it was...I guess some people say their school was hard or their school was easy. What kind of structure did you all have in school? Was it demanding? Your classes?

DAVIDSON: Oh yes. Oh, another teacher that I must remember was Eva Kay Smith. She was a History teacher. She was very good. I later worked with her, or taught with her at Napier High School.

C.M.: I've been doing some research kind of. I've found an edition of the newspaper when the settlement celebrated its fiftieth anniversary. There was this big article about recreation and things 11:00like that. And one thing they mentioned was the May Day Festival.

DAVIDSON: Oh, I remember the May Day Festival.

C.M.: Tell me a little about that. What was that? We don't have that anymore.

DAVIDSON: I know. And I think it's sad, but we loved ... They always danced around the Maypole. And everybody sort of dressed up for that day. And I remember one time that we were going to the May Day Festival and we didn't have a bridge then, we just had a little footlog across the creek. Well, ours was a little bit wider, because I used crutches then. And my dad had made it wide enough for me to walk on, walk across. And I fell off. I guess I was excited or something. [Laughter] I fell off into the creek and messed up my clothes. I can't remember what happened. I just remember the 12:00falling off of the foot log into the creek.

C.M.: You got awfully excited about going.

DAVIDSON: But, I remember the May Day programs. We loved them.

C.M.: What sort of things did you all do to get ready for that? Or what went on that day? I know that people would dance ...

DAVIDSON: Well, I don't remember that we did anything special, except those that participated. I suppose they did. But I just don't remember that.

C.M.: Wasn't there a May Day Queen?

DAVIDSON: I believe ....

C.M.: Or something like that? I know they used to do that.

DAVIDSON: Something, I'm not sure now what it was.

C.M.: But that was pretty much kind of a social event?

DAVIDSON: But it was always a beautiful...most of the time it would be a beautiful day. And they had a lot of flowers around the settlement school and we'd walk ....

VISITOR: Hi.

C.M.: Hi.

DAVIDSON: along that pathway and it was just a lovely day. You'll 13:00be on a recorder. [Laughter] This is Evelyn.

C.M.: Hi, I'm Cassie Mullins. I'm just getting her to talk to me a little bit. What were some of the other things that were popular for the kids to do, when they weren't in school? I know there was basketball courses.

DAVIDSON: Well, we had lots of clubs.

C.M.: Okay, what were some of the clubs?

DAVIDSON: Oh all kinds, I remember the Travel Club that Miss Claire Standish had. And we'd have reports on different places. I don't think we had any films or anything back then. It would mostly be reports about places of interest. But I remember during my junior year, that we did have a three day trip 14:00through the state of Kentucky. And to me it was wonderful. We went to Bardstown. We went all the way to Mammoth Cave. And several places, that don't come to mind right now. But I do remember that one of the guides at Mammoth Cave carried me through the cave, because I wasn't able to walk.

C.M.: But you got to go through it.

DAVIDSON: I got to go through it. He carried me and carried me down about sixty steps to where there was a lake inside.

C.M.: Yeah, I've been there before.

DAVIDSON: You have? Oh, he carried me, I think it was sixty steps. He carried me down those narrow steps, unless they've been changed. And put me in the little boat that went around in that little lake of water. I don't know how big it was, probably an average sized room or maybe 15:00a little bigger.

C.M.: So that was the Travel Club? You all got to ....

DAVIDSON: That was the Travel Club. And I don't remember all the different clubs, but we had a lot of different kinds.

C.M.: So were a lot of students involved in things like that?

DAVIDSON: Yes, they all were required to ....

C.M.: Oh really?

DAVIDSON: Yes, to belong to a club.

C.M.: To at least one club or more?

DAVIDSON: Well, I think we could belong to more than one, because other than the Travel Club, I remember belonging to one where we did handcrafts. Because I still have a scarf that I did with Italian hem stitching. And Bible Club, I think we had a Bible Club then. Just a lot of different kinds I suppose, like 16:00Math Club. Maybe English, I'm just not sure what they called all of them.

C.M.: Did you all do those ...was that after school then?

DAVIDSON: It was during, we had a time set aside during the school day, when we met. Had our club meetings.

C.M.: Now, do you remember, I have like a list of some of the people that were at settlement and I don't know which ones were there exactly when you were there. But what about Miss Watts?

DAVIDSON: I knew Miss Watts. But I never did have much contact with her. Just maybe at some special event or something. Maybe she'd come to the school for something. But I did know her.

C.M.: I 17:00didn't know if you had like any ... what your impressions of her were or...

DAVIDSON: I was sort of scared of her, you know.

C.M.: That's what some people have said.

DAVIDSON: I don't know why, because I didn't stay at the settlement. But you know, you just stood in awe of her, I suppose.

C.M.: What about, did you ever have any contact with Mr. Still?

DAVIDSON: Yes, he was my typing teacher.

C.M.: Oh, that's right, tell me about that. What kind of teacher was he?

DAVIDSON: He was good. I loved him and I also worked for him in the library under the NYC program.

C.M.: What was that?

DAVIDSON: National Youth Corps, where 18:00we got paid for working in whatever capacity we worked. I can't really remember. We didn't get paid much. I think I got six dollars a month. I always thought a lot of Mr. Still, thought he was very good. Of course he was the librarian too. And we had to read books, a lot of books, back in those days. And each book, they had a book list. You couldn't just go and pick out any book and read it. They would have a list of books and they carried a certain number of points in value. Your English classes required that you read, or gain a certain number of points by reading.

C.M.: That's 19:00pretty interesting that they had you all do that. Was the library pretty well . .1 mean... did you all have a good selection of books?

DAVIDSON: I suppose we had a pretty good selection for the time.

C.M.: That's what people ...when I talked to Mr. Still, of course we talked about that. He said, of course, he was the librarian like you said. He said that they got a pretty good selection even then.

DAVIDSON: They did. And I remember a little bit about his coming out to the various communities with books to give to different ones. I don't remember that he ever brought us any. He probably did. I remember one night he spent the night with us. He and two other friends of his. You see at that time my sister was in the settlement and she knew him well. And they came to our house and spent the night. Although I don't remember how come.

C.M.: Well, that's pretty interesting. Let's see, 20:00I'm trying to think who were some other people that might have been there then. I guess Miss Stone, was she there then?

DAVIDSON: Miss Stone, yes I knew Miss Stone. When we would have the alumni banquet she would always be there. She always, I remember she would oversee everything. That usually took place, I think it was at two o'clock. I know it was a day function. And everything had to be just beautifully done, you know, the table setting and flowers everywhere. And we had to go, we didn't have a choice. We were required to go to the banquet.

C.M.: All of the students?

DAVIDSON: Uh hmm. The 21:00seniors, the seniors.

C.M.: Oh, the seniors, okay. And did you all get to eat? Or did you have to ...

DAVIDSON: We ate. We were served. Of course the ones that had already graduated, you would have to fill out ahead of time if you were going to be there. And then we were seated according to when we graduated. All of the graduates would be together. And of course the graduating seniors would sit together too. I guess that's the thing I miss a lot about the suppers we have now, you know.

C.M.: Because it's not arranged.

DAVIDSON: It's not arranged and you can't get with, there's no way ....

C.M.: To find everybody.

DAVIDSON: That you can find the ones that are there. I know that there were at least three from my class there the other night. But 22:00I didn't get to eat with them, because it's just impossible.

C.M.: I know, wish we could to figure out a way to do that. That would be so much better. That was just crazy on Saturday. There were so many people there. DAVIDSON: I know it is. And if you're on a scooter and trying to get through in a crowd. If it hadn't been for your dad I'd never have made it the last few years I've gone.

C.M.: He always watches for you, because he knows it's crazy in there.

DAVIDSON: And found out he even had his son watching for me. Because I didn't know it at the time I drove up and parked, but that the boy seemed to know exactly what to do. And then later in the meeting I found out it was your brother.

C.M.: That was Nathan. We're used to doing that. We've been there a long time.

DAVIDSON: That was nice.

C.M.: How many people did you graduate with? Do you remember the number?

DAVIDSON: I've counted the number a dozen times. And I have a list someplace. I don't know if I could put my hand on it. 23:00C.M.: Approximately, do you know?

DAVIDSON: I'm going to say thirty-six, although I'm not sure that's correct.

C.M.: So that would be about thirty six that you all graduated together. Did a lot of those live on campus?

C.M.: How did the ...l know that the campus has changed a lot since then. I mean I know you can't describe exactly what it was like. But I know from my talk with Mr. Still, he talked about how everything was so immaculate. What were your thoughts about that? What was it like all the time? The grounds and the buildings DAVIDSON: As far as I remember, always beautiful. They always had lots of flowers. And of course I wasn't in the actual buildings. Probably was never in any building, except what 24:00they called the Orchard House then. I might have been there.

C.M.: What was that one?

DAVIDSON: The one where we meet now. I think. I think that was Orchard House.

C.M.: Okay.

C.M.: Oh you did. Well then tell me about her.

DAVIDSON: Well she was a lovely person. 25:00In fact when I was doing some graduate work at UK, I had to have a speaking and writing knowledge of French. And she tutored me one whole summer in French. She was just a sweet, lovely person. In fact I have her book of poetry that I found at some, some Berea Art Festival maybe. I'm not sure.

C.M.: So did she, was she at the settlement school too?

DAVIDSON: Uh huh. She stayed at the settlement school.

C.M.: Did she teach?

DAVIDSON: I'm sure she did, although I never did have her as a teacher.

C.M.: I'm trying to think who else would have been there. What about Lucy Furman?

C.M.: I didn't know if you would have or not. Let's talk a little bit about...this is just kind of a general question that I had. I know at the banquet the other night when the different classes were coming up, you know. And some were saying I'm so thankful I had this place to come to school. How did going to school there have an impact on your life? What did the, just what did the settlement school kind of mean to you?

DAVIDSON: Well, I just feel that the teachers were really 26:00good and they demanded a lot of their students. And I learned to respect teachers. And I just think a lot of our students miss things like that at this day and time. Things that we had then. Things that we had to do, we didn't have a choice. And I feel that those things were helpful to me. Well, let's just take letter writing for example.

C.M.: Yeah, just give me some examples of things that were different.

DAVIDSON: We had to practice and learn to write different kinds of letters, like thank you letters or sympathy letters. Just various types of letters that are really important. That people know how to do. A thank you letter for something that somebody's done for you. Those 27:00things were stressed and we practiced them. And I don't believe, I don't know this to be true, but I feel like students are not taught those things anymore. Because you never see any evidence. And they're all guilty, it's not just certain ones. Well let's just say for a graduation gift or something like that.

C.M.: You should get a thank you letter.

DAVIDSON: You should have a thank you note, but most of them never do. Or if they do write one, it will say "thank you for the gift" and that's it.

DAVIDSON: We learned how to do it. To be specific in our letters.

C.M.: What other things maybe did they teach you all, that were different. You had the letter writing and you said were required to read certain books. What 28:00were maybe some other things that you could think of? I don't know.

DAVIDSON: Well, the Home Economics, we had to have that. We did not have a choice. We had two years of Home Economics. The boys had two years of manual training. And I think those things are important.

C.M.: You said in Home Economics, you learned to sew and...

DAVIDSON: We learned to sew and we learned to cook. And we learned to serve. We had to have the luncheon for the teachers and everything had to be done just so, so.

C.M.: So it was kind of like etiquette.

DAVIDSON: Right. A lot of emphasis was put on etiquette back in those days. That 29:00I figure is not important in schools today.

C.M.: What sort of things--do you know what sort of things the boys had to do? Like your brothers, like in Manual training.

DAVIDSON: Well, I can show you one thing that my brother did, the one that died.

C.M.: Oh really? DAVIDSON: Uh huh. You want to see it?

C.M.: Sure. Here we'll.. ..

DAVIDSON: And usually the school would have a play. And 30:00the community would come in. That was the main involvement of the community.

C.M.: So was Christmas a pretty big time?

DAVIDSON: It was a big time. Students went out to hunt and cut their own Christmas tree. They took time off from the classes to do that. And then most of them would have a part in the play. And then they would have a Santa Claus a lot of times and he would come in and would give out presents. A lot of times the teachers would get gifts from the Hindman Settlement School or Alice Lloyd College.

C.M.: So that everybody got something.

DAVIDSON: So everybody got something. They would send the names in, early in the year and the ages. And they would fix a gift for each child.

C.M.: That's 31:00nice. What kind of, I guess this is in your opinion, what sort of impact do you think that the settlement school's had on maybe this time or this area that you lived in, here in Knott County? What kind of impact do you think it's had? Maybe the time that you were in school there and maybe kind of now. Just talk about that in general.

DAVIDSON: Well, that's a little hard for me, since I never did stay there. But I'd say it's had a very good impact, in general. I think that things that they do are very worthwhile and very interesting. Even though I've not participated in many of them. For example, the Folk Week that you have. I think that's great. And I have friends who 32:00have attended and have enjoyed it. Even though I haven't myself, except for the evening programs. Quite often I have attended.

C.M.: Lots of people usually come to those. Trying to think if there are any other questions. I'm sure I haven't asked you everything that we could talk about. Are there any other things .. .! mean I've just been asking you the questions, but are there any questions that I've left out? Maybe things that you especially remember about your time there or anything like that, that talks about the things we've talked about?

DAVIDSON: One of the things that I remember about going to school there at Hindman was a funny thing that happened one day, under Miss Eva Kay Smith. We were studying about wars and the things that were used in the war, and bombs and other 33:00things. And we were in class and someone was outside. We didn't know this at the time, but they were cutting down a tree. And when that tree fell, it fell across the electric wires. And there was a big explosion and the whole room just filled with light. And the whole class rose to get out of that room into the open court. And I was sitting on the front row. And of course, I used crutches then and I didn't even think about crutches. I just stood up to go too. And of course I fell, right in the doorway. And everybody was jumping over top of me. 34:00[Laughter] C.M.: Did you get hurt?

DAVIDSON: I didn't get hurt, but we had a ball player, John Campbell, long legged John Campbell. He jumped clear over top of me and out into the open court. [Laughter] And they always laughed. A couple of them--- Miss Eva Kay went back to get her coat, it was hanging behind the door. And she thought of her coat and she went to get it. And she got sort of caught and couldn't get out from behind the door. And everybody laughed at that. [Laughter] But I've always remembered that one thing that happened.

C.M.: You all thought the war had come, right there.

DAVIDSON: Yeah, we thought the war had come right then and there. We were being bombed or whatever.

C.M.: I think that would scare me too. You talking about your teachers there, did the teachers help 35:00with the clubs? Is that who helped you all?

DAVIDSON: Oh yes. They sponsored the clubs. And we had a choice in what we wanted to join. I remember I mentioned the, I don't know whether to call it the Sewing Club or what. But a Miss, a lady teacher, Miss Grover. I know that later on she was principal, but she never was principal while I was there. She was there in some other capacity. And she sponsored that club, and taught me how to do the Italian hem stitching. The students took weaving back then too.

C.M.: Did you ever get to do that?

DAVIDSON: I never did get to do that, because 36:00it involved too much for me to cope with.

You had to go over to what they called the Kindergarten building, that burned down in later years.

C.M.: Was that a popular thing to learn how to do?

DAVIDSON: A lot, my sister had a class in it C.M.: The weaving? Yeah, I learned how to do that. But now we don't have the loom set up. I wouldn't remember how to do it by now, it's been so long. Let see I know they had kind of like a craft store, maybe. Did you all sell things? The Fireside Industries, or maybe that was earlier. Sometimes they would sell the things that you all made.

DAVIDSON: Well, 37:00I don't .. .If they sold things that students made, I'm not aware of it. I always thought of .. .I know they had certain ladies that made things ....

C.M.: Okay, I wasn't sure.

DAVIDSON: Like Una Pigman, you've probably heard her name, at least.

C.M.: I know her.

DAVIDSON: She did beautiful work. In fact I have, I guess some of her work, right now. Evelyn, who in our family, I can't remember, has the two desks that Archie made in Manual Training? Is it Walter? Eldon? Okay. I first said me, and then I thought that's not correct, so I guess they decided to give the two desks to 38:00the two boys.

EVELYN:() DAVIDSON: Yes, I told her that. And that's the one Walter has I think.

EVELYN: () DAVIDSON: Okay.

C.M.: Can you think of anything I've left out, or anything that you think I should include on this?

DAVIDSON: When was Miss Grover principal?

EVELYN: () DAVIDSON: What years though?

EVELYN: ( ) forty- six ( ) DAVIDSON: Well, 39:00I had heard--

EVELYN: () Forty- four or forty- five, somewhere along there DAVIDSON: Well, see she was the one who had some club I belonged to in which I did that Italian hem stitching. But I knew she wasn't principal when I was there.

C.M.: And what was her name?

DAVIDSON: Grover. What was her first name?

EVELYN: Frances.

DAVIDSON: Frances Grover.

C.M.: Well, I don't think that I have any more questions that I have written down.