Oral History Interview with Jean Ritchie Pickow

CLARENCE JOHNSON INTERVIBWED BY CASSIE MULLINS JUNE 22, 1998 HINDMAN SETTLEMENT SCHOOL

CASSIE MULLINS: Just to get it going. And if you don't care, I'm going to go ahead and say today's date is June the twenty-second, nineteen ninety-eight. And ifyou don't care, just state your name, so they'll know.

CLARENCE JOHNSON: I'm Clarence Johnson. I was born and raised in Mousie, Kentucky.

C.M.: Uh huh.

JOHNSON: After the seventh grade at Mousie, I came to the settlement and went through the other two months in the seventh grade at Hindman. And we only had seven months at Mousie. Then I went two other months at Hindman, nine months. And then when I was in the eighth grade, thirty-four and thirty-five, I was in the eighth grade at the settlement. Then thirtyfive and thirty-six, I rode the bus from home, but in thirty-six and thirty-seven I stayed back in the settlement again. That was the only two years and 2 months that I stayed in the settlement. And while I was there I worked in the barn. I milked about six cows each milking. Sometimes a flood would come and back then there were, they came pretty often.

C.M.: Yeah, I'd say they did.

JOHNSON: So, we'd have to go to the barn and tum the cattle into the pasture and ifthey had a calf, we'd have to carry it up in the loft. At Saturday nights, why we would go to Miss Jones, the house mother's room and listen to the Grand Old Opry. That's one thing we looked forward to a lot. And then we had a little string band of our own. I played guitar with the band. We didn't go out and play much, but we played together an awful lot. I remember one time we had, went to some club and played. It was a .... I forgot now. Sometimes we would, we had a recreation building up on the hill and we'd go up there and folk dance. Maybe, maybe that was the last time I stayed there. We'd go on Saturday night sometimes and have a folk dance for a

long time. And I played basketball for Pearl. Pearl was there the, came the first year I was in

high school in thirty-four and thirty-five. I went out for basketball and I played for four years.

In thirty-nine we went to the State Tournament and was runners up.

C.M.: Oh, in the State? You were runners up in the State?

JOHNSON: I was one of the five. The other four of them are dead now. I'm the only one of the five living. And they made All State, but I didn't.

C.M.: Well. [Laughter]

JOHNSON: Sure had a lot ofmemories of going to Hindman Settlement School. And Mr. Still, he stayed in our dormitory. He would take us on the weekends for walks up the hollow, up on the hills. He really took care ofthe young boys. Did a lot he wasn't supposed to do. That's about all I ....[Laughs]

C.M.: Okay. Well, ifyou don't care, I have a few questions for you,just from listening to all this. Now, you lived in the settlement, right? For a little while, you said.

JOHNSON: Two years.

C.M.: Two years? Now what buildings did you live in?

JOHNSON: Eastover, that was the men's dormitory. It's been tom down. A new one is there now. The old one was in the same place. C.M.: What was that like, living away from home? Did you get homesick? JOHNSON: No. Well, I had a sister going there the first year I went there. So, I talked to

her a lot. No, I didn't get too homesick. I had a boy, a friend, a neighbor friend that was in the same grade I was. He was already there, Copper John Campbell. So we, I got along pretty good,

didn't get homesick. C.M.: Well, that's good. JOHNSON: Let's see, I had the measles one time. Went up and had to stay in the hospital. C.M.: What was that like? Staying up there? JOHNSON: Oh, had to stay about a week, a week or two, I guess. The nurse would come

in and read to me. Back then it seemed like the measles lasted an awful long time. C.M.: It probably did seem that way. Now, you said that you had a brother and a sister that went there too? JOHNSON: Yeah, Forrest Johnson, he graduated in thirty-two. And I had a sister that

graduated in about thirty-seven. And one about thirty-five. C.M.: So, did any of them live on campus? Yeah, you said your brother did. JOHNSON: Yeah, my youngest sister, she began school in third grade there. C.M.: Wow. JOHNSON: She wrote home one time, my Dad said, send me some money, a nickel will

do. [Laughter] That seems so small, I don't see how one so small, but she had her sister with her. C.M.: I guess that wasn't as bad then. JOHNSON: Hmm? C.M.: I guess that wasn't as bad then, since she had somebody with her. JOHNSON: They went there for years. C.M.: Well, what was it like living in the dorm? What were .... JOHNSON: Well, it's hardly like the Army. I was in the Army. [Laughter] C.M.: Was it a little bit better?

JOHNSON: A bit better than that. We had about two or three in a room. Had three, sometimes, yeah, maybe three. It was kind of private for three. At night we had study hall down in the main room. We'd come in the main door, had a big room. We had about, at about five or six, had study hall.

C.M.: And you said that Mr. Still was the one that lived in your all's donn with you and took care ofyou?

JOHNSON: Well, he didn't have anything to do with us. We had to ....

C.M.: Or, he just lived there, I guess.

JOHNSON: We had a house mother. So he, but he had a room there by himself He would talk to us boys. He would take us on walks on weekends. He was good to us. Took us to ball practice in the gym. He did a lot of things for us.

C.M.: Who was your house mother?

JOHNSON: Miss Jones.

C.M.: What was she like?

JOHNSON: She was kind of rough. [Laughter]

C.M: Was she?

JOHNSON: I had this friend of mine, my neighbor friend. He'd be studying at night and he'd start laughing or something. Throwing paper wads or something. And she'd come up behind him and just smack him right in the face. [Laughter]

C.M.: Oooh. JOHNSON: He was kind of mean, anyhow. He got whippings in the school. C.M.: So how did she keep a bunch ofboys in line? I guess that might have been hard.

JOHNSON: Yeah. She kept them in line. Always send you to Miss Watts. And everyone dreaded to go to Miss Watts.

C.M.: Uh oh. Here let me move this over a little bit. We'll try it this way. There we go. Now, why did everybody dread going to see Miss Watts? What was she like? Did you ever get sent to her?

JOHNSON: Yes.

C.M.: What did you do? Are you going to tell on yourself?

JOHNSON: Yeah, I'd better tell it, I guess. Me and my brother were playing basketball the last year I was there. We went to the State, went to the tournament at Jackson, one ofthe

tournaments and we got beat out. So, we all drank a little bit. She found that out. When she

heard about it, why she called us up there and told us to go home. She sent us home. It wasn't

long until the school was out. So we went home and rode the bus. The next year or two, about two more years I guess, we rode the bus. I graduated in thirty-nine. She wouldn't put up with anything like that. [Laughing]

C.M.: Yeah, I heard she had to be pretty stem.

JOHNSON: Yeah, she was stem. She always liked our family though. She told me and my brother, we didn't act like Johnsons. [Laughter] She thought an awful lot ofmy brother, my older brother.

C.M.: Well, I guess getting back to living there on campus. Now you were telling me you worked in the barn. What was that like? What all did you have to do? JOHNSON: We'd, in the summer, we'd go and get them in the pasture and bring the cows, about twelve ofthem. Twelve cows and put them in the barn. They had the stanchions to put

them in all in a line. The stanchions to put them in. And we'd have to wash them good. And then milk them and strain the milk about two or three times. I milked about six and the other boy milked about six. And that would be in the afternoon. And then in the morning early, we'd get up before everybody else and go and milk. And after breakfast we'd go on back and take the cows to the pasture and clean the barn where they'd been. Wash everything down and go back and get ready to go to school.

C.M.: So, you probably had to go there what, three times a day? Or something?

JOHNSON: Yeah, three times.

C.M.: So, what did you think about that job?

JOHNSON: It was about the hardest job there ever was.

C.M.: It sounds like it was hard.

JOHNSON: And Miss Burns was our boss. She was head ofthe grounds and the barn.

C.M.: What was Miss Bums like?

JOHNSON: [Laughter] She was nice and muddy. She could get tough too.

C.M.: I figured that.

JOHNSON: She saw that everything was clean and had to be right on the dot.

C.M.: Now did you say she was the one in charge of, like the grounds and all that? What did the settlement look like in terms ofhow it was kept up? What was it like?

JOHNSON: Well, I worked in the grounds. The first time I went over there, I had to mow the grass. I mowed all that big, all the back, behind all up on that hill and all that, with a push mower that didn't have any engine, any motor. And we'd get, I believe we put gravel or cinders, put cinders on the walkway. We got the cinders from the different buildings that had a furnace,

you know. And we'd plant flowers and keep everything nice.

C.M.: I guess, were they real particular?

JOHNSON: Yeah, sometimes. Keep it all looking nice.

C.M.: So you worked in the barn and you worked on grounds. Was there any other job you did when you were there? JOHNSON: No. C.M.: Did you work any during the summers? JOHNSON: Uh uh. The summers I went home. C.M.: Yeah, I see. Some people have told me they would work in the summer to pay their

way. How did you pay to go to school there?

JOHNSON: My dad paid so much a month and so much for the whole year, I guess. Must have been about over ten dollars or something a year? I don't know. It wasn't very much. Yeah, there were some people that worked there in their summer to pay for their stay.

C.M.: Let's see. Let's talk a little bit about the dining room. I've found that's been an interesting thing to talk about with people. Because I know that you all ate together. What was that like, getting in there together?

JOHNSON: That was, well, each table had about eight, I guess, people at it. And the boys would eat slow sometimes, so we'd be, when the head would dismiss the table, when there was only about one or two left eating. So we'd always, us big eaters would always try to be left, so we'd eat everything that was left. And when a bowl came empty, we'd have to go back to the dining room and get it filled up and bring it back. For breakfast we had little round biscuits, about like that. Boy, they were awful good. Everybody liked them. Sometimes we'd take them out in our pockets. [Laughing]

C.M.: Was the food pretty good? Did you like it?

JOHNSON: Yeah, we had real good meals. We'd get cobblers and things for dessert. We got fed real good. C.M.: Were you expected to behave a certain way when you were in the dining room? Were there rules? Were there rules for how you had to act when you were at the table?

JOHNSON: Yeah. Yes, they taught us all the rules and all the manners, you know. So, each night, someone got up before we ate and read some scripture. And that was the hardest thing when it came my tum. That scared me to death.

C.M.: Did it?

JOHNSON: You'd get up and read a verse or two ofthe Bible.

C.M.: So ....

JOHNSON: Everybody had to take their tum at that.

C.M.: So, you didn't like doing that very well?

JOHNSON: No. [Laughter] No, I sure dreaded that.

C.M.: Okay, I'm going to move this one more time. There. Now, when you were staying there, what were things .... When you lived there on campus, what did you do on the weekends?

JOHNSON: Well, Saturday afternoons, we'd just work about half a day on Saturdays. And afternoons we'd play ball or something. Or go to town. They let us go to town on Saturday afternoons. And after supper time we'd play basketball or something. Something else I wanted to say. That's about all I guess.

C.M.: What would you do in town? What was there to do down there?

JOHNSON: You'd buy pop or buy some candy. Go to the Palace Lunch, where girls and

boys danced.

C.M.: Oh, you could go dance in there.

JOHNSON: Yeah.

C.M.: Was town a pretty busy place? I mean, did people go there?

JOHNSON: Yeah, yeah. They had a restaurant, called the Palace Lunch. They had a Piccolo and they danced ( ). Even all the outside students would come. At lunchtime they'd

come, they'd flood those places. Some ofthem would eat at, there was about two or three

different restaurants, I guess. Some would eat a bowl of soup or something for lunch. Some

would bring their lunches, I guess. We used to go to the grocery store and eat our lunch

sometimes, when I wanted a sandwich.

C.M.: Yeah, I remember some other people telling me that they'd go downtown and eat lunch. Now, around this time would have been, I guess, the end ofthe depression? Wouldn't it, the late thirties? Or was it still kind of in the depression probably?

JOHNSON: Yeah. C.M.: How did that, how do you remember that affecting things,just in general? Or affecting you maybe?

JOHNSON: I guess, it was kind of a little build up after President Roosevelt got in. He got in, in thirty-three, didn't he? People worked on the WPA and things like that. And everybody was working and had pretty good money, right after the President got in. People lived on the gardens and farms, and put away stuff every fall and had anything you wanted to eat just about. And berries, picked berries in the summer. And put away apples and potatoes, old potatoes up.

We just had plenty to eat. If you wanted to work, things were on the ground. Raise a lot of stuff.

Stuff grew better back then, than it does now.

C.M.: I think you're right. Let's talk a little about your teachers that you had, when you were in school there. I guess, maybe high school or just maybe any that stick out in your mind. Maybe some that you really enjoyed taking.

JOHNSON: Well, Bevie Pratt taught me English in the eighth grade. She was one ofthe oldest teachers. I guess she taught longer than anybody. And then Mr. Potter was our eighth grade teacher. He was kind ofrough, too. He'd, he took my friend, my buddy, Copper John. He took him out to whip him one day. In the stairway, let's see. The top of the stairway where they went down. It was out of the room, in the top ofthe stairway. The books had just been taken up. So here came a boy late. Said, he was whipping on him and here come a boy late, up the stairway, and he just turned around and grabbed him and whipped him.

C.M.: Oh, goodness. [Laughter]

JOHNSON: Yeah, we had some teachers, pretty rough. In high school, I had Pearl in Arithmetic and Algebra. He was a good teacher. And Mrs. Combs, Betty, why she taught me English. And she was rough.

C.M.: What was rough about her?

JOHNSON: She just made you get your lessons in.

C.M.: What happened if you didn't?

JOHNSON: Well, I guess she'd make us go to the Prof, the Professor. Prof Smith was the Principal and everybody dreaded him too. So, you'd better not be sent to him. He used a paddle sometimes.

C.M.: Are there any other teachers maybe, that you remember?

JOHNSON: Miss Standish, I liked her. She taught literature, the English literature. And was from up in New England. She was supposed to have been related to Miles Standish.

C.M.: Oh, yeah.

JOHNSON: She said she was from that family. I think she was a Ph.D. degree. She really knew her English. She loved poetry and stuff like that. She was a good teacher. C.M.: What kind of personality did she have? JOHNSON: She had, well she was kind of solemn all the time. And kind of hard to understand. She had a Boston, uh ....

C.M.: Oh yeah, an accent?

JOHNSON: Accent.

C.M.: Do you remember what she looked like? Maybe kind ofher ....

JOHNSON: Well, she was kind oflow. I believe a little bit heavyset. She had quite a bit of hair and wore glasses.

C.M.: How did those teachers dress back then? I mean, was it more formal than today? Or did they wear skirts? I guess the women, did they dress in skirts and things? How did they dress?

JOHNSON: Just kind of informal, not too formal.

C.M.: Let's see, you were still thinking of teachers before I interrupted you. Were you still thinking of some other teachers? Let's see, you said, Miss Standish. Did you have Miss Cobb any? Or was she there then?

JOHNSON: Who?

C.M.: Ann Cobb.

JOHNSON: Yeah, Miss Cobb in History.

C.M.: What was she like?

JOHNSON: Oh, she was the best person there ever was. Everybody liked her. She'd teach us about the wars and things. She had tears, when she'd think about the wars. She'd teach us about the wars. I had Latin under her, too. I had to take a -after I left the settlement I had to take a class by myself And she'd give me work in another class that she was teaching in. And I would work. Just before the year's end, when she got all her grades in and everything. She told the girl, said, "You go tell Clarence that he passed. And so he might be worried." [Laughing] She wrote me while I was in the service, World War II. She wrote me a letter once.

C.M.: Hold on just a sec.

END OF TAPE 20 A 19, CLARENCE JOHNSON, SIDE A

BEGINNING OF TAPE 20 A 19, CLARENCE JOHNSON, SIDE B

C.M.: Okay, there we go. You were saying that she wrote you when you were in the service in World War II? JOHNSON: Yeah, she mentioned about me taking Latin and all. She liked our family, our whole family. She was acquainted with, I believe she came to our home one time.

C.M.: Now, let's see .... I'm sorry, go ahead.

JOHNSON: That's about all the teachers, I guess.

C.M.: Did you know Miss Furman?

JOHNSON: Yeah, no, I didn't know her, that was before my time.

C.M.: Okay, that's what I thought.

JOHNSON: Well now Professor, I had a class under Prof Smith. We called him Prof Smith. And he was the' Principal there. I dreaded having to go to him. I had to take Algebra, not Algebra, but Geometry under him. And I always did pretty good in the mathematics. I made A's every time and under him. So, that was about the best grades I made, was under him, I guess. He was a good teacher too. I had the other math under Pearl. So, I guess that's all then.

C.M.: Okay, well you remembered quite a few. What about maybe other people that worked at the settlement when you were living there that weren't teachers? Maybe like a cook or somebody that worked on the grounds. Are there any people like that, that you remember?

JOHNSON: Yeah, I remember Doc Pratt.

C.M.: What did he do?

JOHNSON: He was some relation. He's related in my mother's family. He worked on the grounds a whole lot and gardening. I believe he raised a garden. Quentin Hale, he was a, he

helped Doc all the time. He was a good, a nice fellow. He was one ofthe Hales that lived up on

the Right Hand Fork. And Morg Sloane, I remember him. He was, he worked in a shop,

maintenance shop that kept up the buildings and anything that needed to be built, needed

lumber.

C.M.: What was his name? Morg?

JOHNSON: Morg Sloane.

C.M.: Morg Sloane, okay. Let's see, now with a, did you take. I just remembered a class that some people had talked about. Did you take the Manual Training class?

JOHNSON: Yeah.

C.M.: What was it like?

JOHNSON: Well, I took two years ofManual Training and one year ofMechanical Drawing. But we made a project in Mechanical Drawing. We drew, we learned how to draw it out and then we made it. I enjoyed it pretty good. I liked Manual Training.

C.M.: Do you think it was a helpful class, once you got out of school?

JOHNSON: Yes, sure did. Sure, helped make things around the house, stuff like that.

C.M.: Well, as far as making things, did, were you around much ofthe crafts? Like when they made, did weaving and things? Did you see much ofthat? JOHNSON: Yes, I've been in the weaving building a whole lot. I don't remember what I had to go in there for, but I remember going in, seeing the looms and things.

C.M.: Well, now this is jumping back to something you said before, I was just thinking about it. You were talking about you all had folk dances when you were first talking about some things, you remember? How often did you all have those dances?

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JOHNSON: About once a week. I don't remember the actual night we'd go. I believe the last year I was there, they were on Saturday nights, sometimes. We would go dance to way until ten or eleven o'clock.

C.M.: What were those dances like?

JOHNSON: Boys and girls together, huh?

C.M.: What were those dances like?

JOHNSON: Just kind of like square dancing. A lot of different ones from square dancing,

but they were on the same level, I guess. You lined up and danced between each other, around in circles or something. C.M.: Was that a pretty popular, popular way, I guess, to court somebody? Was that a good social time, I guess? JOHNSON: Yeah, we enjoyed it, we got to be with the girls. [Laughter] It was about the only time. C.M.: Was it? So how strict were they on that rule? Of girls and boys and keeping them separate? JOHNSON: They weren't very strict. We had meetings or things like that, sit together and

all like that. Lot of boys and girls wrote notes to each other.

C.M.: Did they?

JOHNSON: Yeah.

C.M.: What kind ofmusic was at those dances? What kind of music was at those dances?

JOHNSON: I don't believe we had any music.

C.M.: You didn't?

15

JOHNSON: Uh uh.

C.M.: Did you have like a dance caller? Or somebody that called the dances?

JOHNSON: Yeah, probably. The director, she did all that.

C.M.: And then you were talking about, you played in a band, right?

JOHNSON: Yeah.

C.M.: What kind ofband was that? That sounds pretty interesting.

JOHNSON: We had a, Travis Simpson played the fiddle, his brother, Orin, played the

mandolin. I played the guitar and the other boy too, played the guitar or something else. We'd get together once in a while and play. The Simpson boys were pretty good. They were pretty good musicians.

C.M.: Uh huh. What kind of music did you guys play?

JOHNSON: Just old country. I called it hillbilly music back then, I guess. Hillbilly band.

C.M.: Did you have a name for yourselves?

JOHNSON: No, no.

C.M.: You just played?

JOHNSON: Just played.

C.M.: Yeah. So how did you all get the notion to get together a band?

JOHNSON: I don't know. The Simpson boys, they kept.. ..they'd play some every afternoon or sometime they'd play together. So we'd all join in sometime and play with them.

C.M.: Let's see. Oh yeah, something that I found interesting talking to people is Christmas, how you all celebrated Christmas at the settlement school. What did you all do for Christmas?

JOHNSON: What? I believe maybe the girls went around and sang, Night Before Christmas. there around the buildings. Then we, I don't remember where we got our presents, but we always got good presents from the settlement. And then Caney Creek Community Center, like they do, they'd send a gift over there too. They'd send them to every school in Knott county, a gift from Caney. And the settlement school in Hindman, they had good presents too. The last year I was there, they gave us a wrist watch. Fruit and everything, I guess. I don't remember exactly what all.

C.M. : Did you all ever do any sort of like play or program for that? JOHNSON: We had a Christmas play in the high school. C.M.: Okay. JOHNSON: Each year. C.M.: And what about graduation? What did you all do for graduation? What kind of

ceremony?

JOHNSON: We had something called a class day or something. And they had predictions on what you'd want to make and what you'd want to do in life.

C.M.: What did they predict for you?

JOHNSON: Don't ask me that.

C.M.: Uh oh. Okay. Well, you don't have to answer it. [Laughter]

JOHNSON: I was in the, that year I was in the final, the play at the end ofthe year.

C.M.: Uh huh.

JOHNSON: The girls had, they had me take Robert Taylor's place. [Laughing] I got mad

about that. I didn't like that.

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C.M.: Yeah? JOHNSON: Robert Taylor was just coming out being the biggest star then. C.M.: So you didn't like that too much. [Laughing] Well, who were some ofyour .... You

were telling me about your one buddy there, Copper John. You told me a few tales on him. Who were some ofyour other real close friends during high school?

JOHNSON: Shelby Stewart, he and I milked the cows together. We were in the same class. And Howard, he was just before us, a year or two, I guess two years before us. Orville and Elmer Holiday. I guess you've seen them.

C.M.: Yeah, I know them. Well, what were some things maybe that you all would do together? Like you and Shelby, the one that you milked cows with. What did, I mean I know that guys like to hang out and do things together. What sort ofthings would you all do together?

JOHNSON: Mostly play basketball, I guess. Yeah, Shelby played basketball too. When we went to the State, he was struck down with pneumonia and didn't get to go to State with us. He's real sick now, Shelby is.

C.M. : That's a shame. JOHNSON: Have you seen him? C.M.: No. JOHNSON: He has Parkinson's disease. C.M.: Does he? Yeah. See, what I usually .... Ifl don't know the people, or ifl can't get a

hold of them. I try to call somebody in their family, but I hadn't talked to anybody in his family, yet. I'll have to remember to do that. Well, you were talking.. .. you've talked a lot about playing basketball. I think that's pretty interesting. You are the first basketball player I've gotten a hold of

JOHNSON: I'm about the only one left from thirty-nine.

C.M.: Yeah, when did you start playing basketball?

JOHNSON: Started when I was a kid over at Mousie and played on the ground. Came to Hindman and went out for basketball the first year that Pearl came in thirty-five. Copper and me made the team. For three years I sat on the bench, but I played. The fourth year I was one of the first five. I never could see very good. I was near-sighted. I tried to play without my glasses. couldn't wear glasses to play back then, because you didn't have anything to cover them up. You didn't have glasses made that wouldn't break.

C.M.: Well, I'm a big basketball fan, so I like talking about this.

JOHNSON: Hmm?

C.M: I said, I'm a big basketball fan, so I like talking about that. What was practice like? How long did practice last?

JOHNSON: About an hour and a half, two hours, I guess.

C.M.: Was it every day?

JOHNSON: Yeah. It was rough on us, but we got used to it. But I went to Georgetown and I played one year down there. There's a lot harder practice down in college than it was in high

school. C.M.: Did people come out and watch you all play? JOHNSON: Yeah, we had big crowds. Yeah, that little, old gym would be full all the time. C.M.: Who was you all's biggest rival? Or rivals? I guess you had more than one. JOHNSON: Hazard never would play us.

C.M.: Why not?

JOHNSON: They thought they were better than us.

C.M.: Well.

JOHNSON: They wouldn't stoop that low. Jackson and Breathitt county and Carter Creek

were our rivals. So sometimes, if we ever met Hazard it would be in the tournament. So, the nineteen thirty-nine, we met them in the tournament and beat them. First time Hindman had ever beat them. We beat them pretty bad. Their best man, their best player, was a big, tall Cole boy. He played the pivot and my brother played behind him and I played in front of him. And I met my man, a good way back, he played in the back. So, that big Cole boy, he just got the ball one time and turned around and shot it and made it. [Laughter] The only points he got.

C.M.: You all must have had some good defense.

JOHNSON: Yeah. Yeah, he was the best player, so Pearl put two fellows to guard him and turned the one loose. [Laughing] C.M.: So, your brother played basketball too, with you? JOHNSON: Yeah, he was better than I was. [Laughter] He made All State. C.M.: Well, let's talk about going to the State Tournament. I guess that was a pretty big

deal. I mean, it's a pretty big deal now.

JOHNSON: We'd never been to Lexington.

C.M.: You hadn't?

JOHNSON: No.

C.M.: How' d you feel? I mean thinking on it now?

JOHNSON: We thought that was a great, big place. [Laughing] But we played good ball,

though. Papers bragged on us. Wait just a minute, I'll show you some pictures.

C.M.: Okay, wait, here let me get that microphone off you.

C.M.: Turn it back on there. So you all went down to the State Tournament and played three games, right? Or was it four all together? JOHNSON: Four games. C.M.: Four games all together. So how many days were you all down there? JOHNSON: From Wednesday I guess, until Saturday night. Thursday, Friday and

Saturday, maybe something like that. We had to play two games on Saturday. The ball game started on Friday, then probably. No, it started Thursday I think. C.M.: Thursday. Did many people get to go and watch you all? Fans? Or was that too far to go? JOHNSON: Yeah, there was quite a few people went to watch. Somebody went and got my Dad and brought him down to the last game to watch us get beat. [Laughing] C.M.: Oh no. At least he got to come and see it though. That would have been something to come and see that.

JOHNSON: They won the State Tournament in forty-three.

C.M.: Yeah.

JOHNSON: Charlie Combs played.

C.M.: So, what did people think back at school? Their big team going off I guess was there, like, any kind ofcelebration in town?

JOHNSON: Well, no. There wasn't anybody to meet us in town.

C.M.: There wasn't?

JOHNSON: Might have been a few. The next day, well Monday. When we went to school Monday, why they had kind ofa celebration in the gymnasium. Had us up on the stage, some men made speeches.

C.M.: Well, that's pretty neat, I think. I just have a few more questions, I promise. [Laughing] What kind of impact has it had on your life, from going to school at the settlement? Even, maybe just living there, what kind of impact do you think that had on you?

JOHNSON: Well that helped me when I was in the Army.

C.M.: Okay.

JOHNSON: Because I was used to being away from home. So it didn't bother me to be

away from home in the Army. It takes the home boy away from you. You learn an awful lot. You learn a lot of manners and things like that, and it goes with you all through life, I guess.

C.M.: Yeah, now when .... What year did you go to the Army?

JOHNSON: In nineteen forty-two, March offorty-two. Stayed three years and ten months and thirteen days. C.M.: Wow. JOHNSON: I was in the field artillery and went to Germany. While our Army was on the

Siegfried line, Belgian border, we entered service there, I mean war there. We went on, I think we... .I was a lineman in Headquarters, Field Artillery Battalion. And relayed wires from our HQ Battalion to the Infantry Battalions. So, we got some shelling and things like that, but we didn't see any combat. No hand to hand combat or anything. We got a lot of shells and strafed a couple oftimes by airplanes. We went to Dusseldorf, I believe before they quit fighting. Then we had to stay over there in the Army ofoccupation. I believe we went to Berlin and occupied.

I only had to stay there about two weeks, got sent home from there. I came home in January of forty-six. C.M.: So, I guess it's like you said, you'd been away from home, I mean not that far away, ofcourse. But you learned how to get along with other people, I guess.

JOHNSON: Yes. It was a good learning experience, settlement school was.

C.M.: Do you think maybe, because I know a lot of people have talked to me, like you said, about how Miss Watts was a strict person and things like that. Why do you think they were strict on you all?

JOHNSON: That's just something a lot of parents and people in school, at that time, back at that time, were a lot stricter than they are now. They want you to do the right thing. And if you didn't do it, they'd punish you for it.

C.M.: Well, what did you think about.. . .I know that a lot ofthe teachers came from New England and things. What did you think about that?

JOHNSON: I think that was awful good. That taught us how the other people lived in different places. And how they talked, [Laughing] stuff like that. They taught us an awful lot.

C.M.: Well, do you have any, ofcourse I mean I can't, I could think of a lot ofquestions that maybe wouldn't be ones ofthings that you're thinking of Are there any special memories that you have of ...like things that stick out in your mind from being there maybe, when you lived there or something? Something that you got into that you wouldn't mind, that you wouldn't mind telling about? [Laughing] Because I think it's always good to get stories about people, you know. Because it gives you a good idea of what it was like.

JOHNSON: Well, I told you about getting expelled.

C.M.: Yeah, you told me that one. [Laughter] I didn't know ifmaybe there were any other

stories that stick out in your mind when you get to talking about being in school. Or maybe mischief you all got into? I'm sure you all got into plenty of that.

JOHNSON: Well, one time we had a flood and it was going down and the water was still pretty high. Another boy and I got in the creek there at the barn. And we swam down through that muddy water. Down to the bridge down there and got out. Miss Jones found out about that. She made us go in and take a bath and go to bed in the daytime. Wouldn't let us get out. [Laughter]

C.M.: For getting in the creek?

JOHNSON: For getting in the creek. She thought that was dangerous.

C.M.: She was afraid you all would drown out there probably. Was there anything else you boys got into that you can think of!

JOHNSON: Not I, but I tell you, my brother and some boys, one April Fool Day. One morning real early, got up and took a stick or something and rang the bell at Orchard House. And rang the bell, and when it's not ringing for meals or for meetings and things, it's ringing for fire. So everybody thought there was a fire before daylight. They rang that bell. So that was an April Fool joke. That was my brother that did that.

C.M.: Did he get caught?

JOHNSON: No, I don't think so.

C.M.: Well, that's good.

JOHNSON: There were some other boys into it too.

C.M.: Yeah. Was there anything that I haven't asked you about maybe that you've thought about while we've been talking? Maybe something you think would be important about the settlement school or maybe just about the settlement school or maybe just about people or something I haven't mentioned?

JOHNSON: No. C.M.: Maybe something you think would be important about your time there? JOHNSON: No. I believe I've told you about all. C.M.: Okay. I'll stop there.

END OF INTERVIEW