Oral History Interview with Virginia Combs

VIRGINIA COMBS: All right.

CASSIE MULLINS: Let me fix this little level. I guess we should start out with how long you've lived here in Hindman.

COMBS: I moved here in nineteen thirty-five, in Hindman. That's a long time. Let's see, five from eight, that's sixty-three years.

C.M.: And what were, what did you do here in Hindman? Did you ....

COMBS: I didn't work at all. Beckham ... .I never worked until Nancy went to college. And then I worked in the office 1:00for a while.

C.M.: And what was Beckham's job?

COMBS: He was Superintendent of the schools, Knott County schools.

C.M.: What years was he that?

COMBS: He came in nineteen thirty-two. That was before we were married, of course. And then he was Superintendent until nineteen .... and I don't remember, seventy something. He was almost forty years.

C.M.: Yeah, I knew it was a long time. Okay, I forgot to have you do this. Go ahead and state your name ..

COMBS: My name is Virginia Combs.

C.M.: And your age if you don't care.

COMBS: I don't care a bit, eighty-five, soon be eighty-six.

C.M.: Now Virginia, what we want to talk about is like I was telling you before, your association with the settlement school. And I guess we'll start maybe with your earliest memories of when you got here. Maybe what the settlement school was like, just from being in the community, someone in the community, who had an association with it.

COMBS: My relationship with the settlement started 2:00before I came here. Really, Miss Stone .... they would have to come to Lackey to catch the train. And my father was the railroad agent there. And they always stayed with a neighbor of ours, who had been in school over here. Minnie Dunnley, Minnie Stayley. And they were our next-door neighbor. And I got to know Miss Stone and Miss Watts before, as a child even. And it was always a pleasant relationship. So then when I came to Hindman, they were lovely. They were wonderful to me. And Beckham and Miss Watts, and in particular Miss Stone. Of course, she was the director at that time. They were .... they got along beautifully. I know that when Beckham would go to KEA in the Spring. And the principal lived in the old training house 3:00they called it, there where the gift shop is. And she would .... Prof Smith and Beckham would always go. He was the principal of the school. They always went down in the Spring, and they brought Miss Stone back with them. She stayed in Louisville during the Winter and then she came in the Spring. And she was still the acting director, but she was out in the Winter. But she was one of the most soft-spoken people I've ever known. And a lady, if ever I saw one. [Interruption - Phone] C.M.: Okay we'll stop it.

C.M.: You were talking about Miss Stone.

COMBS: Well, she and Beckham had a wonderful relationship. And they, they just adopted me and my children, our family. We were just very close. They always included us in everything, 4:00from the time they were little. My children grew. See we lived down there thirteen years in that house. Nancy was ... .I guess Jack was five when we moved up here. But Nancy, that's all she ever knew, was the settlement. Cause she played down there with them. She stayed down there with them half the time. They all loved her to death. So, we just had a good relationship. And then Miss Watts and Beckham got along beautifully.

C.M.: What did you think about Miss Watts? What was she like?

COMBS: She was an entirely different person than Miss Stone. She appeared to be very stern. But her talk was worse than her bite. And I always got along with Miss Watts fine. And up until, well you know, she broke her arm. You remember that, I'm sure. 5:00She would always write us the nicest letters. But at Christmas she managed to scribble one out to us. I always reminisce. She was very happy with Jack being made a board member. She said, "Of course, I'd rather have Beckham." [Laughter] Beckham's too old. But I mean she just was real pleased, said, “I’m happy to know that he's grown up into such a fine young man." She'd know him as a child, you know. But they were so different, really different. And you know, sometimes they make the best of friends, people who are different. Of course, she came here after Miss Stone did.

C.M.: What kind of relationship do you think then that Miss Stone and Miss Watts had .... just from you being with them and being friends with them?

COMBS: Oh I think it was very congenial. And very .... ! think they approved of each other. And their ideas were pretty much the same. I don't think they ever had any problems at all. Of 6:00course, I don't know that. I just don't know. But I know they were two great ladies, really two wonderful people. And Hindman really benefited by their coming here.

C.M.: In what ways do you think?

COMBS: Well, I think .... well for example. I know Beckham as Superintendent of the schools .... so many people said, well you'll never get along with another school like that. I mean a settlement like that. And Beckham just laughed at them and never said anything. They furnished the things that the county didn't have the money to do, which made the difference in our school year. Why our children were better educated. They resent it in a lot of places, for example, Carr Creek and Beaver and all that section. They 7:00helped with music. And they helped with just so many things, Home Ee for a long time. They just contributed the things that all children should have. Because now when Jack went to Vanderbilt, of course the county had taken it all over completely. But all through grade school we had a Music teacher, Ruthie White. Those children were taught to sing every kind of song imaginable. When Jack went to Vanderbilt, he took this folk class just for the fun of it. And why, he knew all the songs. And they couldn't understand where he had ever learned them. He said, I've been brought up on them. I mean it's just.. .. Art. I've got a picture in there, where one of the Art teachers did for Nancy 8:00for graduation. And I mean there's always been just a wonderful relationship. Of course, there's been times. I think the settlement at first resented being taken over by the county. But then when they worked it out, that they could be beneficial still to the county by providing these other things, weaving. That's something I am so sorry we had to give up. And they furnished that.

C.M.: How did they furnish the weaving? How did that work?

COMBS: We had .... they took it in school. We had a weaving room at the settlement. I mean at the ... .let's see, we had it at Kindergarten part of the time. And where else? I can't remember. But a lot of them took weaving, students. It's too bad it's not done now, 9:00because they've lost the art. I can't say there was ever any real differences. There was times when they had to work things out. But they were sensible people. Sit down and discuss it and that was it. There were a few times we've had some bad directors.

C.M.: Yeah COMBS: Yes, but we always got along with them just the same. You have to.

C.M.: So, you would say the relationship, pretty much, between Hindman Settlement School and then with the county system, once it started going, was pretty much a good relationship?

COMBS: A good relationship, absolutely. And Beckham, if he were alive, he'd tell you the same thing. Because he said, people in the State department said, this will blow up in your face some day. Beckham said no it won't. Because he knew the people. And they were genuinely interested in seeing 10:00.... that's what they were here for, to better our schools and better the community. And they did it.

C.M.: What did the people in the community or what did you think about all the teachers that were brought in? Because I know that a lot of the ladies came from the east and things like that. What did people seem to think about that?

COMBS: Well, when I came to Hindman in nineteen thirty-five. They were beginning to have .... our students from Hindman High school went to other big schools. And they came back here and were as well educated as those. And they started coming in and teaching and what not. But as a whole, we liked all the teachers. We had some wonderful teachers, Miss Standish, Miss Cobb, oh just. They were outstanding. And there was never any ill feeling between the teachers and that. 11:00C.M.: What was Miss Cobb like?

COMBS: One of the dearest people I've ever known in my life. I'll never forget when Miss Stone died. And they didn't have a telephone, but we did. So, everything for the settlement, they came to our house, and I'd have to go and get them. And so, they called to tell me that Miss Stone was dead. Well, it like to kill me. So, I had to go and tell them. So, I went over, and I went to Hillside. That was where they lived. And Miss Cobb was sitting on the porch. And I said, "Miss Cobb, I have some bad news." And I told her. She said, "Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear." I'll never forget what she said. But she just straightened up. She was just something you dream about. She had retired when 12:00I came, or that year. And she decided she didn't want to just sit down and do nothing. And she had never married. She had no family. I think she had a niece or nephew someplace. She started what they called Baby Party. And these children were all under school age. I mean they were from .... well, they could bring them as a little baby, if they wanted to, but most of them were two, three or four, up to about five. And it was in the big Kindergarten building, right down below our house. You know where it is. You know where the kindergarten was.

C.M.: Right, yeah.

COMBS: Where the stone chimney is. And the mothers came. It was a gathering place for the mothers and their children. And we met, let 13:00me see. We met once a week. And we had tea parties. And I remember that's when Fiesta China was in. You know what Fiesta China is?

C.M.: I think so.

COMBS: Well, it's yellow and green and red and all that. So, for Christmas we bought her a teapot, and all the different colors and what not and cups. And we just.. . .It was the nicest thing there ever was. They played games. And she loved children. But we had Baby Parties. That's what we called them, the Baby Parties. And that lasted for years, until my children were up and gone. She was an unusual person, very unusual. And her hair had been red, but it was getting white. But she was a dear. I don't know of anybody .... You've 14:00read her poems and everything, haven't you?

C.M.: Yeah.

COMBS: I have her book autographed. She and Beckham got along fine. What else do you want to know? I don't know. I can't remember.

C.M.: Let's see. I was just wondering about maybe other like people that stand out in your mind that worked over there. Like you described Miss Cobb and Miss Watts, and people like that, and Miss Stone. Maybe there are certain people.

COMBS: There was a, there was a Science teacher here, that was outstanding, Miss Standish. She was the direct descendant of Miles Standish. And she was a brilliant woman. And she was .... she put.. .. those students, when they went to other schools, they had it made, because she was so good. That was during the time when they were talking about atomic .... all that stuff, you know. And she really went all out to study all that. And she had students 15:00to learn all about all that stuff, I remember. She had them .... she'd invited us in to her classes for them to explain to us what was happening. I didn't even know what it was all about, but she did. And she taught. I remember there was a girl, Marie Barnett, who she was. I believe was her last name. Lived down on Clear Creek. She was a brilliant girl, but she transported by bus. She was one of them. And it's too bad that girl didn't go on, because she had a brilliant mind. And Miss Standish realized that. And she was one of the students that demonstrated all that stuff on a big blackboard. I can't imagine.

C.M.: I can't either.

COMBS: I sat there, my mouth hanging open. But she did the extra. And you know Betty came here. 16:00She came in .... well excuse me. [Interruption - Phone] CM: We were just talking about different faculty and people like that, that you remembered. You had described Miss Standish.

COMBS: She was an unusual teacher. Then there were many others that I knew. And some of them would come back, you know. And it was just unbelievable the people that influenced, influenced my children. Because he was with them all the time. They just adopted my children. That's when the cabin was down .... The cabin wasn't up here, where it is now. It was down there, below, where the, well, where the kindergarten was. Well, it was up a little bit in front of that path. And that's where they played. They played at the cabin. 17:00It was wonderful for them to have experience to meet people like that and know them. There was an elderly lady that lived in the cabin. That's where they, they wove in there too. That's where they sold the weaving. Oh, they had beautiful things. And this woman was from Boston. Her husband was one of the most famous doctors, Dr. Cushing. And she was charming. Absolutely just loved her to death. I've got some of the most wonderful pictures of her with my children. You know, Mike might like to have that. I mean of her. And we had an Irish setter. We had five Irish setters in fact. 18:00And they just, the dogs lived down there with all of them. And she loved that dog. You'd see her going across the campus, come one More, come on honey. Put her hand in his mouth and they'd just walk along. [Laughter] It was just wonderful. But I'm glad that my children had the advantage to meet people like that. And if it hadn't been for the settlement, they wouldn't have.

C.M.: I feel the same way about myself.

COMBS: That's right. The settlement is much improved to what it was. It got pretty low for a while.

C.M.: Did it?

COMBS: Well, you know it did. Now Lionel just, I don't know what happened to him. I really don't. Now he lived in the settlement. He was from over in Quicksand, and his wife too. They both lived there. She 19:00was a Smith. Elmo Smith,I think, comes back every year to the .... but she never comes back and neither does .... neither does .... Frankie's her name, Frankie Smith and Lionel. But I just don't know what happened, money went to his head or something. Anybody that would .... And it went down, down, down. And of course, Bun was there. Bun had his problems, but he did lots of things. But now like that dormitory, we kidded and called that Bun's Folly. That's what we call that yet, people here in town. We call that Bun's Folly.

C.M.: Which place is that? The dorm?

COMBS: The dorm C.M.: Why did you call it that?

COMBS: Huh?

C.M.: Why did you all call it that?

COMBS: Well, it was just so horrible. It didn't go with anything. You know, it was just so unlike the settlement. 20:00But he had some queer .... But I like Bun and Betty. I loved both of them and their children. See, they all grew up here too. It was just too bad he .... Those things happen that we don't understand.

C.M.: Well from you living here, and seeing that you've been talking about the people that you met at the settlement school, and your children grew up here - What kind of impact do you think the settlement school's had on this area?

COMBS: Oh, I think it's had a tremendous, absolutely tremendous impact.

C.M.: In what ways maybe? I know ....

COMBS: Oh, it's educational, cultural, it just has meant letting them know a bit about the other world. If they hadn't, 21:00they'd just have been isolated, which it has been isolated. It was especially then. And it was isolated for years, even after I came here. We had those awful bad roads to Lexington. Take all day to go to Lexington and all that. No, I'd be the last one to ever say they hadn't helped this whole .... not just Knott County. They kept children from other counties. And it had a bearing on other counties. They had, well for example, the Bollen girl.

C.M.: From Hazard.

COMBS: Yeah. And well he, he went here.

C.M.: Yeah, her father.

COMBS: Father did, yeah, from Perry County, and then Floyd County. A lot of those went here, went to school. And I'm sure Letcher County. I know of a good doctor, been very active, used to be in the alumni 22:00association. And all those surrounding counties benefited from it. There's just the difference in mediocre schools. And then another thing. We belong to the Southern Association. And when Beckham came in, they belonged to it, because their standards were so high in the high school. And they were teaching in the classes they should be teaching, and all that. Well Beckham kept it up. And I doubt it is today. I really do. I've never asked, but I'm going to ask Dr. Pack if they still .... That meant if you belonged to the Southern Association you could go to any school in the South that was a public school without taking exams or anything.

C.M.: You mean like College Entrance exams?

COMBS: Yes, that's right.

C.M.: I don't think that exists anymore.

COMBS: I don't think it is either. And that's something I know Beckham fought so 23:00hard to keep, to maintain. The teachers teaching in their own field. And improving it all the time. There's such requirements on it. And that's why a lot of the other schools, Caney, and Carr Creek. They were jealous of Hindman. Because we were at an advantage. We had people that would come in and teach these things. They didn't.

C.M.: So, what kind of caliber of education do you think kids got that went to Hindman?

COMBS: I think they got top education. I know that my children did. I know that. Well, Jack, for example, he won the Vanderbilt Freshman Writing Award, when he went to Vanderbilt. Is that good? And of course, then 24:00it started going down. Ann Johnson .... you know Ann.

C.M.: Uh huh.

COMBS: She has four boys. Her first two boys went to Hindman High School. That was before the consolidation and before some of them took over. And those two boys are so much better educated, that it's .... she said it's just like daylight, difference in daylight and dark, as Ron and David. The other two went to Knott County, their first year or two. And she said. Well, I've heard Ron say, he said, "I had one year at Hindman, then went up there. It was just like the difference in daylight and dark." Beckham at the end, he regretted in a way, of consolidating the schools. But he thought it would better them. But I don't know whether it did or not. But 25:00oh, they .... And Nancy went to Centre. She didn't have any trouble. She was on the honor roll. And you just don't get that in those places, unless you've had the background. And we've always had, one thing this school has always had that no others .... We had Latin. And I think it's terrible they've given it up. But you can't find a teacher for it. It just won't do it. Especially if it's children that are going to be doctors.

C.M.: I know, that helps a lot.

COMBS: I know James Elmer, the one that wanted to be a doctor. He had her in high school take a correspondence course in Latin. He was a top Latin student himself and won the award. And Betty was living then, and she was a Latin teacher. And so, she took it. And 26:00he stood over her and made her take it.

C.M.: Are there any other questions that maybe I haven't asked you about the settlement or something that you want to say about it?

COMBS: Well, I think it's unbelievable what Mike's done for the settlement. I think it's gone back into the same principles that it was once. And thanks to him. Otherwise, it would have been gone. I really do. Now some people don't like it, because they don't go out into the schools as much as they did. I can understand that though. You can't get people.

C.M.: You can't pay for it.

COMBS: No, how effective do you think .... Turn that off.

END OF INTERVIEW